Israel bent n dragging US to war kicking and screaming call US general Iran's servant

[cheguevara]

:wow "you are supposed to serve us!"

Israel has protested to the United States over recent comments by senior American officials critical of any Israeli attack on Iran, saying this criticism "served Iran's interests."

A senior Israeli official said Netanyahu and Barak told Donilon of their dissatisfaction with the interview given by Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, to CNN on Sunday.

Dempsey said "I don't think a wise thing at this moment is for Israel to launch a military attack on Iran," and a strike "would be destabilizing" and "not prudent."

Dempsey said the United States has so far not been able to persuade Israel not to attack Iran. "I wouldn't suggest that we've persuaded them that our view is the correct view," he said.

The Israeli officials also objected to a number of briefings senior American officials gave American correspondents, who wrote in recent weeks about a possible Israeli attack in Iran.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-public-u-s-objections-to-military-attack-serve-iran-s-interests-1.413845

Senate forcing Obama to war?

Lieberman, Mccain, Senators holding Israel's interests above US's.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/senators-iran-war_b_1294305.html

[ChumpDumper]

:wow "you are supposed to serve us!"You don't know how quotes work.

[cheguevara]

question are Graham, Lieberman, Mccain commiting treason?

trea·son   [tree-zuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.
a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.
the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

[cheguevara]

uh oh, looks like there is internal conflicts in Israel too.


Israel may have to consider ending the internal war within its government before launching an attack on Iran in the name of its alleged nuclear weapons program. Israeli defense minister Ehud Barak, who is believed to be pushing for military action against Iran, slammed President Shimon Peres, following newspaper reports which said that Peres is expected to tell U.S. President Barack Obama that he doesn't believe Israel should attack Iran soon.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/303915/20120224/israel-iran-war-ehud-barak-shimon-peres.htm

[CosmicCowboy]

question are Graham, Lieberman, Mccain commiting treason?

trea·son   [tree-zuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.
a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.
the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

Question?

Did Che read his own article?


That is the meaning of the legislation introduced this month by senators Bob Casey (D-PA), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) and Richard Blumenthal(D- CT).

[cheguevara]

Calm Down. Iran’s Missiles Can’t (and Won’t) Hit the East Coast.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/02/iran-icbm/

“The bottom line,” says Paul Pillar, a veteran CIA Mideast analyst, “is that the intelligence community does not believe [the Iranians] are anywhere close to having an ICBM.”

That, however, isn’t the message out of Jerusalem. Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz told CNBC on Wednesday Iran was “two to three years” away from slamming a missile into New York, Boston or Washington. Its strategic-affairs minister, Moshe “Bogie” Yaalon, issued that same warning earlier this month, but declined to say when Iran’s mega-missile would be ready.

Chances are, the Israelis are hyping the Iranian missile threat so their American friends will consider the Iranian threat more acute. They’re not happy with Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for saying on Sunday that an Israeli attack on Iran was “not prudent.” But few missile or intelligence experts believe the new claim of an imminent Iranian ICBM is going to change Dempsey’s mind, or anyone else’s, because it’s far-fetched.

[cheguevara]

Question?

Did Che read his own article?

agree those guys should be included in my question. thanks.

but I was more referring to this:
"It turns out that Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) were in Israel at the time Netanyahu attacked Dempsey."

[cheguevara]

and

"Mark Vogel, chairman of the pro-Israel National Action Committee, once said, “Joe Lieberman, without exception, no conditions … is the No. 1 pro-Israel advocate and leader in Congress. There is nobody who does more on behalf of Israel than Joe Lieberman.”"

[CosmicCowboy]

Calm Down. Iran’s Missiles Can’t (and Won’t) Hit the East Coast.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/02/iran-icbm/

“The bottom line,” says Paul Pillar, a veteran CIA Mideast analyst, “is that the intelligence community does not believe [the Iranians] are anywhere close to having an ICBM.”

That, however, isn’t the message out of Jerusalem. Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz told CNBC on Wednesday Iran was “two to three years” away from slamming a missile into New York, Boston or Washington. Its strategic-affairs minister, Moshe “Bogie” Yaalon, issued that same warning earlier this month, but declined to say when Iran’s mega-missile would be ready.

Chances are, the Israelis are hyping the Iranian missile threat so their American friends will consider the Iranian threat more acute. They’re not happy with Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for saying on Sunday that an Israeli attack on Iran was “not prudent.” But few missile or intelligence experts believe the new claim of an imminent Iranian ICBM is going to change Dempsey’s mind, or anyone else’s, because it’s far-fetched.

Why do they need an ICBM? Hell, the Mexican cartels are bringing hundreds of tons of contraband across the border into the US every month. There are no rules when it comes to nukes and they don't have to be delivered by a missile.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell, they could stick one in a 40 foot shipping container and ship it to New York harbor and then pull the trigger.

[cheguevara]

Hell, they could stick one in a 40 foot shipping container and ship it to New York harbor and then pull the trigger.

this threat is already present today whether Iran gets nukes or not. N Korea, Pakistan, missing Soviet nukes say hello.

[ChumpDumper]

Hell, they could stick one in a 40 foot shipping container and ship it to New York harbor and then pull the trigger.Iran has no reason to do that.

[EVAY]

The U.S. is trying desperately to get Israel to back off attacking Iran because they (we - the U.S.) fear that such an attack would lead to a much wider war in the region, with Israel eventually (or sooner) requiring the U.S.'s backing in another middle eastern conflict. We don't want it. We can't afford it.

But Israel has been pretty successful in getting the U.S. to fight proxy wars for it for several decades, and they are unlikely to change now. Israel has gotten more hawkish with the influx of immigrants from Russia, etc., and they are certainly more directly threatened by a nuclear Iran than we are, but this is one time we should NOT go to their aid.

But I suspect that we will. And we will pay dearly for it in blood and treasure and lost diplomatic gains in the region. It is not a good situation at all.

[NewcastleKEG]

The U.S. is trying desperately to get Israel to back off attacking Iran because they (we - the U.S.) fear that such an attack would lead to a much wider war in the region, with Israel eventually (or sooner) requiring the U.S.'s backing in another middle eastern conflict. We don't want it. We can't afford it.

But Israel has been pretty successful in getting the U.S. to fight proxy wars for it for several decades, and they are unlikely to change now. Israel has gotten more hawkish with the influx of immigrants from Russia, etc., and they are certainly more directly threatened by a nuclear Iran than we are, but this is one time we should NOT go to their aid.

But I suspect that we will. And we will pay dearly for it in blood and treasure and lost diplomatic gains in the region. It is not a good situation at all.
If something like that happened, there would be no other choice but to declare America being Israel's bitch & Jews are nothing but trouble. Europe learned it's lesson

[CosmicCowboy]

The U.S. is trying desperately to get Israel to back off attacking Iran because they (we - the U.S.) fear that such an attack would lead to a much wider war in the region, with Israel eventually (or sooner) requiring the U.S.'s backing in another middle eastern conflict. We don't want it. We can't afford it.

But Israel has been pretty successful in getting the U.S. to fight proxy wars for it for several decades, and they are unlikely to change now. Israel has gotten more hawkish with the influx of immigrants from Russia, etc., and they are certainly more directly threatened by a nuclear Iran than we are, but this is one time we should NOT go to their aid.

But I suspect that we will. And we will pay dearly for it in blood and treasure and lost diplomatic gains in the region. It is not a good situation at all.

Pretty fair assessment.

[clambake]

Hell, they could stick one in a 40 foot shipping container and ship it to New York harbor and then pull the trigger.

"Hello Mr. Cowboy, we're with the NSA. You need to come with us, please"

[boutons_deux]

oilcos are on the their knees praying for an attack, by anybody, on Iran.

[cheguevara]

If something like that happened, there would be no other choice but to declare America being Israel's bitch & Jews are nothing but trouble.

When I say Israel in this thread I mean the leadership of that country plus their branch which is the Jew Lobby here in the US. The regular citizens of Israel are victims just like regular americans.

The Military Complex, Jew US Lobby, Israel leadership, Oil Companies all are the ones trying to force the US into war.


Europe learned it's lesson

what do you mean by this?

[NewcastleKEG]

When I say Israel in this thread I mean the leadership of that country plus their branch which is the Jew Lobby here in the US. The regular citizens of Israel are victims just like regular americans.

The Military Complex, Jew US Lobby, Israel leadership, Oil Companies all are the ones trying to force the US into war.



what do you mean by this?
As in they preferred to rebuild their countries post WW2 without Jews around. They knew Jews would buy up land & corporations with their war reparation money. Money = Control. They would take control of the government & over time would be running pro Israel crap.

And that's exactly what's happened in America.

[CosmicCowboy]

As in they preferred to rebuild their countries post WW2 without Jews around. They knew Jews would buy up land & corporations with their war reparation money. Money = Control. They would take control of the government & over time would be running pro Israel crap.

And that's exactly what's happened in America.

Wow

[NewcastleKEG]

Wow
Do you disagree with something?

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you disagree with something?

I just hadn't realized we had a neo-nazi in here.

[NewcastleKEG]

I just hadn't realized we had a neo-nazi in here.
Oh boy. Have you been to Europe or interacted with Europeans?

I am stating the perspective of Europe. I understand how from an American perspective that could be seen as a personal slam on Jews, but it is not.

To put it in simplest terms. Jews are known for their business savy, Europeans are labeled here as Socialist & anti-Corporations. The two have opposite viewpoints of how things should be done

The only thing keeping Jews from being Republicans is the Christian factor & them not being whites. That's it. They are a perfect marriage otherwise

[Agloco]

I am stating the perspective of Europe.

You've failed miserably.

[cheguevara]

Oh boy. Have you been to Europe or interacted with Europeans?

I am stating the perspective of Europe. I understand how from an American perspective that could be seen as a personal slam on Jews, but it is not.

To put it in simplest terms. Jews are known for their business savy, Europeans are labeled here as Socialist & anti-Corporations. The two have opposite viewpoints of how things should be done


You are using the term jews too freely, too general. I would recommend you use the term "extremist jews", which are the minority, just like the extremist christians here in the US.

All groups of people have their extremists.

and BTW money does not discriminate, there are greedy motherfuckers of all races and colors. Singling out a group is flawed and dangerous.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh boy. Have you been to Europe or interacted with Europeans?

I am stating the perspective of Europe. I understand how from an American perspective that could be seen as a personal slam on Jews, but it is not.

To put it in simplest terms. Jews are known for their business savy, Europeans are labeled here as Socialist & anti-Corporations. The two have opposite viewpoints of how things should be done

The only thing keeping Jews from being Republicans is the Christian factor & them not being whites. That's it. They are a perfect marriage otherwiseWow.

[EVAY]

As in they preferred to rebuild their countries post WW2 without Jews around. They knew Jews would buy up land & corporations with their war reparation money. Money = Control. They would take control of the government & over time would be running pro Israel crap.

And that's exactly what's happened in America.

Holy s**t!!

For the record, although I don't want us to get dragged into another war over there, I disagree with your assessments concerning European rebuilding efforts post WWII, and I disagree with your assessment of what has happened in America. And I absolutely disagree with your characterization of what Jews did "with their war reparation money". HUH? Note to NKEG...there were NO reparation monies after WWII.

Good heavens, CC is right...this is neo-nazism, big time!

[NewcastleKEG]

You are using the term jews too freely, too general. I would recommend you use the term "extremist jews", which are the minority, just like the extremist christians here in the US.

All groups of people have their extremists.

and BTW money does not discriminate, there are greedy motherfuckers of all races and colors. Singling out a group is flawed and dangerous.
Religion over country for Jews. This is not the case with Europeans

Yet another difference

[NewcastleKEG]

Holy s**t!!

For the record, although I don't want us to get dragged into another war over there, I disagree with your assessments concerning European rebuilding efforts post WWII, and I disagree with your assessment of what has happened in America. And I absolutely disagree with your characterization of what Jews did "with their war reparation money". HUH? Note to NKEG...there were NO reparation monies after WWII.

Good heavens, CC is right...this is neo-nazism, big time!
Disagree how/why? Would you like to post opinions before throwing labels at people?

Honestly, the last group of people I would go to for a global & historic opinions are Americans.

No war reparations? You have no idea what you are talking about. Turn off Schindler's List & let individuals with family actually involved in the Holocaust speak on the matter. I spoke face to face with my grandma last summer who was in a Nazi working camp.

Again LOL @ an American speaking on the subject

[ChumpDumper]

No war reparations? You have no idea what you are talking about. Turn off Schindler's List & let individuals with family actually involved in the Holocaust speak on the matter. I spoke face to face with my grandma last summer who was in a Nazi working camp.What reparations did she get?

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.tpcoz.com/pics/forums/Random2011/SeigFAil.gif

[EVAY]

Disagree how/why? Would you like to post opinions before throwing labels at people?

Honestly, the last group of people I would go to for a global & historic opinions are Americans.

No war reparations? You have no idea what you are talking about. Turn off Schindler's List & let individuals with family actually involved in the Holocaust speak on the matter. I spoke face to face with my grandma last summer who was in a Nazi working camp.

Again LOL @ an American speaking on the subject

I gave my opinions earlier. But I will respond.

Normally, the use of the term 'war reparations' refers to countries who lose a war with another to pay 'reparations' to the victorious country. This pattern was in place in virtually every European War for the last few centuries UNTIL WWII. The reparations required by the victorious countries after WWI were extremely difficult, and Germany had little chance of payment. But France had to pay reparations to Germany after the 1870 war, and France and Britain were eager to get Germany to pay in similar kind. The Russians WANTED reparations after WWII, but Germany and Japan had no money after the war. So the victorious countries took over the running of the countries that lost. Germany was split into two countries eventually and Japan had McArthur as its essential emperor in the aftermath of the war. The U.S. essentially rebuilt Germany and Japan after WWII, so the notion of War reparations in the normal sense being paid by the losers of the war DIDN'T HAPPEN!!

If you are talking about individuals being helped somehow for the suffering they experienced during the war...that is not WAR REPARATIONS.

You say that Americans no little or nothing about history. Sorry, but you have just run into one American who knows more about WWII than you will ever probably know in this or any other lifetime.

NONE of this excuses your rant about Jews and your UNFOUNDED assumptions about what European leaders did and did not do about rebuilding post WWII in relation to what you SAY (with zero evidence) their beliefs were about Jews.

If it were not for the Marshall Plan Europe would have taken a hundred years to rebuild. There were no war reparations paid by the losing countries except that we took over their damn countries and ran them as our satellites. And it had NOTHING to do with Jews in their (or our) midst.

[NewcastleKEG]

I gave my opinions earlier. But I will respond.

Normally, the use of the term 'war reparations' refers to countries who lose a war with another to pay 'reparations' to the victorious country. This pattern was in place in virtually every European War for the last few centuries UNTIL WWII. The reparations required by the victorious countries after WWI were extremely difficult, and Germany had little chance of payment. But France had to pay reparations to Germany after the 1870 war, and France and Britain were eager to get Germany to pay in similar kind. The Russians WANTED reparations after WWII, but Germany and Japan had no money after the war. So the victorious countries took over the running of the countries that lost. Germany was split into two countries eventually and Japan had McArthur as its essential emperor in the aftermath of the war. The U.S. essentially rebuilt Germany and Japan after WWII, so the notion of War reparations in the normal sense being paid by the losers of the war DIDN'T HAPPEN!!

If you are talking about individuals being helped somehow for the suffering they experienced during the war...that is not WAR REPARATIONS.

You say that Americans no little or nothing about history. Sorry, but you have just run into one American who knows more about WWII than you will ever probably know in this or any other lifetime.

NONE of this excuses your rant about Jews and your UNFOUNDED assumptions about what European leaders did and did not do about rebuilding post WWII in relation to what you SAY (with zero evidence) their beliefs were about Jews.

If it were not for the Marshall Plan Europe would have taken a hundred years to rebuild. There were no war reparations paid by the losing countries except that we took over their damn countries and ran them as our satellites. And it had NOTHING to do with Jews in their (or our) midst.

World War II

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_reparations&action=edit&section=4)] Europe

Further information: German reparations for World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reparations_for_World_War_II)
After World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), according to the Potsdam conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_conference) held between July 17 and August 2, 1945, Germany was to pay the Allies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II) US$23 billion mainly in machinery and manufacturing plants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_plant). Reparations to the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) stopped in 1953. In addition, in accordance with the agreed-upon policy of de-industrialisation and pastoralization of Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan), large numbers of civilian factories were dismantled for transport to France and the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK), or simply destroyed.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Dismantling in the west stopped in 1950.
In the end, war victims in many countries were compensated by the property of Germans that were expelled after World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II). Beginning even before the German surrender and continuing for the next two years, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) pursued a vigorous program to harvest all technological and scientific know-how as well as all patents and many leading scientists in Germany (known as Operation Paperclip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip)). Historian John Gimbel (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Gimbel&action=edit&redlink=1), in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#cite_note-4) German reparations were partly to be in the form of forced labor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor). By 1947, approximately 4,000,000 German POWs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW) and civilians were used as forced labor (under various headings, such as "reparations labor" or "enforced labor") in the Soviet Union, France, the UK, Belgium and in Germany in U.S run "Military Labor Service Units".
See also: Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Germans_in_the_Soviet_Union), POW labor in the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW_labor_in_the_Soviet_Union), and World War II reparations towards Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations_towards_Yugoslavia)
Germany paid Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) 450 million DM in Holocaust reparations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_reparations), and paid 3 billion DM to the World Jewish Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress) to compensate survivors in other countries. No reparations were paid to the Romanies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanies) who were killed during the Holocaust.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#cite_note-5)
According to the Paris Peace Treaties, 1947 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Treaties,_1947), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) agreed to pay reparations of about US$125 million to Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia), US$105 million to Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), US$100 million to the Soviet Union, US$25 million to Ethiopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia), and US$5 million to Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania). Finland agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_war_reparations_to_the_Soviet_Union); Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) also was the only country which fully paid its war reparations. Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary) agreed to pay reparations of US$200 million to the Soviet Union, US$100 million to Czechoslovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia) and Yugoslavia. Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania) agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union. Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria) agreed to pay reparations of $50 million to Greece and $25 million to Yugoslavia. According to the articles of these treaties, the value of US$ was prescribed as 35 US dollars to one troy ounce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_ounce) of pure gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold).
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_reparations&action=edit&section=5)] Japan

According to the Treaty of Peace with Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Peace_with_Japan) and the bilateral agreements, Japan agreed to pay around 1 trillion and 30 billion yen. For countries that renounced any reparations from Japan, it agreed to pay indemnity and/or grants in accordance with bilateral agreements.
The government of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_the_United_States) officially apologized for the Japanese American internment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment) during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) in the 1980s and paid reparations.

The losing countries paid reparations to the allies & Jewish organizations.

Historian John Gimbel (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Gimbel&action=edit&redlink=1), in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion


Since 1951 Germany has paid more than 102 billion marks, about $61.8 billion at 1998 exchange rates, in federal government reparation payments to Israel and Third Reich victims. In addition, Germans have paid out billions in private and other public funds, including about 75 million marks ($49 million) by German firms in compensation to wartime forced laborers, the Welt am Sonntag newspaper reported recently. These figures are based on calculations by the German Finance Ministry, the influential paper said.
Of the total, Germany has paid out 78.4 billion marks ($47 billion) on the basis of the 1965 Federal Restitution Law (BEG) to persons, especially Jews, who had been persecuted during the Third Reich era on the basis of race, religion, origin or ideology.
While most of those who were alive during the Second World War are now dead, in recent years Germany was still paying out some 1.25 billion marks (about $75 million) to 106,000 pensioners in Israel, the United States and other countries on the basis of the 1965 Restitution Law.


^ That's bullshit ^



In a review of West Germany's economy from 1945 to 1951, German analyst Werner Abelshauser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Abelshauser) concluded that "foreign aid was not crucial in starting the recovery or in keeping it going". The economic recoveries of France, Italy, and Belgium, Cowen found, also predated the flow of U.S. aid. Belgium, the country that relied earliest and most heavily on free market economic policies after its liberation in 1944, experienced the fastest recovery and avoided the severe housing and food shortages seen in the rest of continental Europe.

[NewcastleKEG]

Can you even begin to comprehend the amount of FREE handouts Israel gets globally each year? The funniest part is the nerve of their leaders & people to declare shit like ''We have the greatest military & we are a model for freedom & wealth in the Middle east"

It's all from sucking on a nipple!

[EVAY]

The losing countries paid reparations to the allies & Jewish organizations.

Historian John Gimbel (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Gimbel&action=edit&redlink=1), in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion

Regardless of what was asked for, it didn't happen! The 'intellectual reparations' you describe were mainly the German scientists who came over here quite happily to work in our missile industry. Calling that 'reparations' ignores the degree to which they were thrilled to come here because they were fleeing the Soviets. Your source on this has the same bias you do. America saved Western Germany and Japan from falling under the Soviet yoke and spent gazillions of dollars rebuilding them both in our own image. WE paid for the war because we wanted to develop markets for American goods (and we did). The movie The Mouse That Roared was a satire of the way that the U.S. treated conquered countries. Britain had a very hard time after the war because we DIDN'T help them, and it took years and years for their economy to recover ( of course trying to recover under Atlee wasn't going to work at all), but the point here is that we didn't help them the way we helped Germany and Japan.

Your rant about Jews in post war Europe (and America) is unchanged by any of this discussion, and is still more representative of Nazism than it is of any historical representation of post war Europe and what their leaders were thinking.

I really think you have seriously over-interpreted the word 'reparations'.

[NewcastleKEG]

Your opinion is the perspective of an American. Your rant about Germans not paying reparations was debunked & you continue to further play the rhetoric of America saved the allies in WW2 and without America the European continent would be speaking Russian today. Yadda yadda yadda.

In Europe, America's participation in World War 2 is an after thought and helping rebuild it while cashing in immensely is viewed as the least America could do after sitting on the sidelines for so long & profiting off both sides.

The bottomline: Without the allies/governments in exile fighting & their sacrifice, YOU would be typing in German today

[EVAY]

Your opinion is the perspective of an American. Your rant about Germans not paying reparations was debunked & you continue to further play the rhetoric of America saved the allies in WW2 and without America the European continent would be speaking Russian today. Yadda yadda yadda.

In Europe, America's participation in World War 2 is an after thought and helping rebuild it while cashing in immensely is viewed as the least America could do after sitting on the sidelines for so long & profiting off both sides.

The bottomline: Without the allies/governments in exile fighting & their sacrifice, YOU would be typing in German today

Logic is not your strong suit is it?

I didn't rant about Germany not paying reparations. I pointed out that they were unable to pay them because their country had been demolished by the war, they had no functioning industry, no functioning government, and they were divided by the allied powers after the war.

Nor did I suggest that only the U.S. was responsible for the defeat of Germany.
One might recognize that from the fact that it was a World War!!! I am well aware that the U.S. is known by many overseas as 'Always late to a War'. You know what? That's because we generally don't like war!! But if we are going to do it, we do it big time.

Russia would have fallen to Germany were it not for the foreign aid that the U.S. and Britain sent to them in the form of planes, ships, trucks, war material, and Hitler's idiocy as a general. Our shipments to them allowed them time to turn their economy to production of tanks (theirs was the best in the field by the end of the war), guns, planes, etc. Britain was the recipient of U.S. war material through outright loans and the Lend-Lease program wherein American ships, etc. were 'given' to England in exchange for the ability to put American Bases in places where England controlled things.

By the way, we didn't provide any post-war aid to Britain, and it took her forever to get back on her feet after the war, because she was almost bankrupted as well.

Although we were late to the war, it was America's industrial might that eventually saved the world from Naziism through what we gave to allies when they needed our help before we entered the war, and what we provided to them while fighting next to them after we had been attacked by Japan and after Germany declared war on us a few days after Pearl Harbor.

The exiles in Europe who fought with Britain and the U.S. did so with American rifles, American tanks, American planes and American food in their stomachs.

If you think so little of America and our contribution to the freedom of European countries in the last century, what the hell are you doing here?

[boutons_deux]

U.S. Sees Iran Attacks as Likely if Israel Strikes

American officials who have assessed the likely Iranian responses to any attack by Israel on its nuclear program believe that Iran would retaliate by launching missiles on Israel and terrorist-style attacks on United States civilian and military personnel overseas.

While a missile retaliation against Israel would be virtually certain, according to these assessments, Iran would also be likely to try to calibrate its response against American targets so as not to give the United States a rationale for taking military action that could permanently cripple Tehran’s nuclear program. “The Iranians have been pretty good masters of escalation control,” said Gen. James E. Cartwright, now retired, who as the top officer at Strategic Command and as vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff participated in war games involving both deterrence and retaliation on potential adversaries like Iran.

The Iranian targets, General Cartwright and other American analysts believe, would include petroleum infrastructure in the Persian Gulf, and American troops in Afghanistan, where Iran has been accused of shipping explosives to local insurgent forces.

“Once military strikes and counterstrikes begin, you are on the tiger’s back,” said Ray Takeyh, a former Obama administration national security official who is now at the Council on Foreign Relations. “And when on the tiger’s back, you cannot always pick the place to dismount.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/world/middleeast/us-sees-iran-attacks-as-likely-if-israel-strikes.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

===============

The oilcos are drooling over the $100Bs in windfall profits as the Iran-Israel war and Wall St traders push the barrel to $150+

[Shastafarian]

If something like that happened, there would be no other choice but to declare America being Israel's bitch & Jews are nothing but trouble. Europe learned it's lesson

Like a modern re-imagining of Mein Kampf.


As in they preferred to rebuild their countries post WW2 without Jews around. They knew Jews would buy up land & corporations with their war reparation money. Money = Control. They would take control of the government & over time would be running pro Israel crap.

And that's exactly what's happened in America.If only Jews had their own country to run, everything would be ok for bigots like you. Oh wait!


Oh boy. Have you been to Europe or interacted with Europeans?Have you?


I am stating the perspective of Europe. I understand how from an American perspective that could be seen as a personal slam on Jews, but it is not. Wait, what? You're saying that European countries, in the 1950s, knew beforehand that because Jews are money hungry weasels they should rebuild without them. This also means that they somehow knew Israel would make it as a country even though they were mired in wars for the first oh 30 years of existence. Is that about the size of it Herr Newcastle?


To put it in simplest terms. Jews are known for their business savy,Nothing to see here folks.


Europeans are labeled here as Socialist & anti-Corporations. The two have opposite viewpoints of how things should be done

The only thing keeping Jews from being Republicans is the Christian factor & them not being whites. That's it. They are a perfect marriage otherwise:lol


Religion over country for Jews. This is not the case with Europeans

Yet another differenceWhat if I told you, and please keep your small mind open on this, that some Europeans ARE jews? Did I just blow your mind?

[Drachen]

Like a modern re-imagining of Mein Kampf.

If only Jews had their own country to run, everything would be ok for bigots like you. Oh wait!

Have you?

Wait, what? You're saying that European countries, in the 1950s, knew beforehand that because Jews are money hungry weasels they should rebuild without them. This also means that they somehow knew Israel would make it as a country even though they were mired in wars for the first oh 30 years of existence. Is that about the size of it Heir Newcastle?

Nothing to see here folks.

:lol

What if I told you, and please keep your small mind open on this, that some Europeans ARE jews? Did I just blow your mind?

* Herr



and yes, I don't have anything to add ATM, just watching the show.

[Shastafarian]

* Herr




Ah yes thanks.

[boutons_deux]

"that some Europeans ARE jews"

600K Jews in France (vs 6M ethnic North Africans).

I never heard that France or any European country has anything like AIPAC buying legislators and financing anti-Muslim haters and war-mongers.

InSaneTorum's very strong showing in northern state of Michigan shows that many "Christian" Americans long for religion over country, really want a "Christian" theorcracy to impose "Christian" rules on non-Christians, AND to make world-winde war on non-threatening Muslim countries.

[Shastafarian]

So the problem is with Jews and their numbers then? Because obviously the more Jews there are, the more collective wealth they have. Oh haven't you heard? Jews have this extra sensory perception of other Jews. It's like a Vulcan Mind Meld without the touching. In one spot of the country and Jew can have a thought like, "I hate muslims but have no money. I'll just Jewcept my friend Moishe to throw millions of dollars at someone who has influence." The common mistake ignorant people make is lumping "Jews" into a collective being. AIPAC is a powerful and sometimes deleterious organization. But there are TONS of those organizations that are composed of like minded people.

The last time I heard people in favor of keeping a certain ethnic group's numbers low was, well all the time. That's what genocide comes from :lol

[Shastafarian]

I realize how unrealistic my previous post is and apologize for that. A jew with no money :rollin:rollin:rollin

[cheguevara]

fuck Europe, it's a shithole anyway. let's go back to talking about real shit

The US jew lobby is powerful and influential, especially since they own large part of financial/media complexes. But the neocons, oil companies, military complex are no joke either. All those conspire to push our young tender troops into bloddly battles in lands that we have no business really. They have business there, not the regular americans like you and me or the children that go fight their battles.

you gotta take your glasses off and see the entire picture. that is why we fucked

[Winehole23]

The only thing keeping Jews from being Republicans is the Christian factor & them not being whites. That's it. They are a perfect marriage otherwise.But for their clannish ways, their peculiar beliefs and their obvious racial impairment, one might even consider them American.

[Winehole23]

lol "Jew lobby" guy telling General Jodl to watch what he says about "the Jews"

[cheguevara]

lol "Jew lobby" guy telling General Jodl to watch what he says about "the Jews"

do you deny there is a Jew US Lobby that influences US Policies?

:wow :lmao

[Winehole23]

"a Jew US lobby?" -- I deny it.

There are Jewish lobbies of many different stripes, I do not deny that.

I presume you were referrring to AIPAC. Are there other organizations that fall under that designation for you?

[cheguevara]

:lol wow. I guess all the financial/military aid we give Israel is out of the kindness of our hearts. :lol

[Winehole23]

strategic ally. nice dodge.

[cheguevara]

6kySR3fpa5s

[Winehole23]

You've posted that before. I even watched it. Is there a point you'd like to make in your own words? We're none of us mind readers.

[cheguevara]

I think you get the point, just playing dumb.

Let's move on...

[Agloco]

crofl "Jew Lobby". Are those the new waiting areas proposed under Obamacare?

[ChumpDumper]

fuck Europe, it's a shithole anywayWhere did you go on your last European tour?

[cheguevara]

:lol it doesn't exist :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States


Formal lobby
The formal component of the Israel lobby consists of organized lobby groups, political action committees (PACs), think tanks and media watchdog groups. The Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks all lobbies and PACs, describes the ‘background’ of those ‘Pro-Israel’ as, “A nationwide network of local political action committees, generally named after the region their donors come from, supplies much of the pro-Israel money in US politics. Additional funds also come from individuals who bundle contributions to candidates favored by the PACs. The donors' unified goal is to build stronger US-Israel relations and to support Israel in its negotiations and armed conflicts with its Arab neighbors.”[25]


Informal lobby
Support for Israel is strong among American Christians of all denominations.[21] Informal Christian support for Israel includes a broad range varieties support for Israel ranging from the programming and news coverage on the Christian Broadcasting Network and the Christian Television Network to the more informal support of the annual Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem.[22]
Informal lobbying also includes the activities of Jewish groups. Some scholars view Jewish lobbying on behalf of Israel as one of many examples of a US ethnic group lobbying on behalf of an ethnic homeland,[23] which has met with a degree of success largely because Israel is strongly supported by a far larger and more influential Christian movement that shares its goals.[24] In a 2006 article in the London Review of Books, Professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt wrote:


A summary of pro-Israel campaign donations for the period of 1990–2008 collected by Center for Responsive Politics indicates current totals and a general increase in proportional donations to the US Republican party since 1996.[45] The Washington Post summarized the Center for Responsive Politics' 1990–2006 data and concluded that "Pro-Israel interests have contributed $56.8 million in individual, group and soft money donations to federal candidates and party committees since 1990."[46] In contrast, Arab-Americans and Muslim PACs contributed slightly less than $800,000 during the same (1990–2006) period.[47]
J.J. Goldberg wrote in his 1994 book Jewish Power that 45% of the Democratic Party’s fundraising and 25% of that for the Republican Party came from Jewish-funded Political Action Committees.[48] Richard Cohen, a columnist for the Washington Post, updated those figures in 2006 citing figures of 60% and 35% respectively for the Democratic and Republican Parties. According to the Washington Post, Democratic presidential candidates depend on Jewish sources for 60% of money from private sources.[49]

[Winehole23]

that's an Israel lobby. subtle difference, for some.

[Winehole23]

I think you get the point, just playing dumb.We all get the point, you do nothing but.

[cheguevara]

that's an Israel lobby. subtle difference, for some.

Given the fact that Israel is a Jewish semi-theocracy, the terms Jew/Jewish/Israeli are interchangeable.

[Winehole23]

did you have a point about historical Jewish support for the Democratic party? voting for Dems and against its own apparent self-interest, allegedly?

yawn

[Winehole23]

Given the fact that Israel is a Jewish semi-theocracy, the terms Jew/Jewish/Israeli are interchangeable.Outside of Israel, for non-citizens? I disagree. Please speak for yourself.

[Winehole23]

what's the matter with Kansas?

[GSH]

Given the fact that Israel is a Jewish semi-theocracy, the terms Jew/Jewish/Israeli are interchangeable.

THAT is an absolutely ignorant thing to say. I lived there for a year as a consultant. I have never been in a more secular/atheistic country. But why would I expect anything from you that wasn't bent? You tell us all about yourself, right up front:

One genuine accomplishment in Che Guevara's life: the mass-murder of defenseless men and boys. At everything else Che Guevara failed abysmally, even comically.

Upon arriving in Havana on January of 1959 after an utterly bogus guerrilla war, Che Guevara immediately recognized the moat around Havana's La Cabana fortress as a handy-dandy execution pit. Hitler's SS had to dig them. Here Che Guevara had one ready made.

His favorite tool in the struggle for free education and health care was a shot to the back of the victim’s head. According to the authoritative "Black Book of Communism," Castro and Che’s firing squads riddled 14,000 bound and gagged freedom-fighters. Many (perhaps most) of their murder victims were boys in their late-teens and early 20s. Some were even younger.

Carlos Machado and his twin brother Ramon were 15 when they spat in the face of their communist executioners and died singing their national anthem as lustily as they cursed Che Guevara's Internationale.

A bona fide coward, Guevara died whipering "Don't Shoot! I'm Che! I'm worth to you more alive than dead!" This sniveling shout was heard by the two Bolivian soldiers when they confronted Che and his guerrilla charge Willi. Che immediately dropped his fully loaded weapons and started his whimpering. (That's two Bolivian soldiers against two armed guerrillas, by the way.)

[GSH]

BTW - "Jew" isn't a pejorative, except in the small minds of some bigots. They call themselves Jews. "Jewish" is typically used in relation to religion, but not always. There are lots of non-Jew Israelis. The Bedouin communities are all over the country, for instance. And, just to be clear, Israeli Jews are incredibly tolerant of non-Jew Arabs in the country. There is a mosque in downtown Tel Aviv that was falling apart. The Jews paid to have it restored for them. They don't, as many would have you believe, knock down mosques or even talk mean to them. Most of the residents said things like, "You have to see their side of things." The local Arabs never said anything close to that.

The Jews are constantly working outside, cleaning their houses and yards, and keeping them up. The Arabs? Not so much. Consequently, the Jewish quarter in Jerusalem is pristine and attractive. The Arab quarter is a crap-hole. And it's not a matter of money, no matter what the people like Che tell you. It's a matter of effort and lifestyle choice. I could give a few hundred more examples (like the difference between Israel and Jordan), but I won't take all day. It's enough to say that the propaganda you read doesn't meet the reality. And the people spreading the propaganda don't give a shit.

[cheguevara]

THAT is an absolutely ignorant thing to say. I lived there for a year as a consultant. I have never been in a more secular/atheistic country.

Let's face the facts, Israel is a semi-theocracy
Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of 2009, with its many religious attributes, is closer to Tehran.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/gideon-levy-let-s-face-the-facts-israel-is-a-semi-theocracy-1.2438


The storm over remarks made by Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman is in many respects a tempest in a teapot, which has for a long time taken on holier aspects than it seems. Neeman wants Torah law, or in other words, he wants Israel to be a country governed by Jewish religious law, halakha. In any event, Israel is already a semi-theocracy. The Israelis who were frightened by the minister's remarks and who love viewing their country as liberal, Western and secular are forgetting that our life here is more religious, traditional and halakhic than we are prepared to admit.

Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of 2009 is much closer to Tehran. From birth to death, from circumcision to funeral, from the establishment of the state to the establishment of the last of the illegal outposts in the West Bank - we are operating in the shadow of the commandments of religion. We should be honest with ourselves and admit it already: The country is too religious. Neeman just wanted to take this one step further, something one can and must come out against; but the religious-nationalist campaign began a long time ago, and it is still going strong.

It begins, of course, with the fact of our presence here. Among other things, it is based on theological reasoning. Abraham the Patriarch was here, so we are, too. He bought the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, so we, too, are in Palestinian Hebron. People who are entirely secular also cite religious and biblical explanations for the connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. We can't even say whether Judaism is a religion or a nationality - and in any event, there is no other country in the Western world where religion has its holy iron grip on the state as it does in Israel.

Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world.

[boutons_deux]

10 Ways AIPAC Undermines Democracy at Home and in the Middle East

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is one of the most powerful lobby organizations in the country. On March 4-6, AIPAC will be holding its annual policy conference in Washington DC. The speakers include Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, U.S. President Barack Obama, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, Republican candidate Newt Gingrich and a host of other powerful politicians.

AIPAC has tremendous clout but its influence has been disastrous for U.S. foreign policy and U.S. democracy. Here are ten reasons why AIPAC is so dangerous.

1. AIPAC is lobbying Congress to promote a military confrontation with Iran. AIPAC – like the Israeli government – is demanding that the U.S. attack Iran militarily to prevent Iran from having the technological capacity to produce nuclear weapons, even though U.S. officials say Iran isn’t trying to build a weapon (and even though Israel has hundreds of undeclared nuclear weapons). AIPAC has successfully lobbied the U.S. government to adopt crippling economic sanctions on Iran, including trying to cut off Iran’s oil exports, despite the fact that these sanctions raise the price of gas and threaten the U.S. economy.

2. AIPAC promotes Israeli policies that are in direct opposition to international law. These include the establishment of colonies (settlements) in the Occupied West Bank and the confiscation of Palestinian land in its construction of the 26-foot high concrete “separation barrier” running through the West Bank. The support of these illegal practices makes to impossible to achieve a solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

3. AIPAC’s call for unconditional support for the Israeli government threatens our national security. The United States’ one-sided support of Israel, demanded by AIPAC, has significantly increased anti-American sentiment throughout the Middle East, thus endangering our troops and sowing the seeds of more possible terrorist attacks against us. Gen. David Petraeus on March 16, 2010 admitted that the U.S./Palestine conflict “foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel.” He also said that “Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the [region] and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support.”

4. AIPAC undermines American support for democracy movements in the Arab world. AIPAC looks at the entire Arab world through the lens of Israeli government interests, not the democratic aspirations of the Arab people. It has therefore supported corrupt, repressive regimes that are friendly to the Israeli government, such as Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak. Events now unfolding in the Middle East should convince U.S. policy-makers of the need to break from AIPAC’s grip and instead support democratic forces in the Arab world.

5. AIPAC makes the U.S. a pariah at the UN. AIPAC describes the UN as a body hostile to the State of Israel and has pressured the U.S. government to oppose resolutions calling Israel to account. Since 1972, the US has vetoed 44 UN Security Council resolutions condemning Israel’s actions against the Palestinians. President Obama continues that policy. Under Obama, the US vetoed UN censure of the savage Israeli assault on Gaza in January 2009 in which about 1400 Palestinians were killed; a 2011 resolution calling for a halt to the illegal Israeli West Bank settlements even though this was stated U.S. policy; a 2011 resolution calling for Israel to cease obstructing the work of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees; and another resolution calling for an end to illegal Israeli settlement building in East Jerusalem and the occupied Golan Heights.

6. AIPAC attacks politicians who question unconditional support of Israel. AIPAC demands that Congress to rubber stamp legislation drafted by AIPAC staff. It keeps a record of how members of Congress vote and this record is used by donors to make contributions to the politicians who score well. Members of Congress who fail to support AIPAC legislation have been targeted for defeat in re-election bids. These include Senators Adlai Stevenson III and Charles H. Percy, and Representatives Paul Findley, Pete McCloskey, Cynthia McKinney, and Earl F. Hilliard. AIPAC’s overwhelmingly disproportionate influence on Congress subverts our democratic system.

7. AIPAC attempts to silence all criticism of Israel by labeling critics as “anti-Semitic,” “de-legitimizers” or “self-hating Jews.” Journalists, think tanks, students and professors have been accused of anti-Semitism for merely taking stands critical of Israeli government policies. These attacks stifle the critical discussions and debates that are at the heart of democratic policy-making. The recent attacks on staffers at the Center for American Progress is but one example of AIPAC efforts to crush all dissent.

8. AIPAC feeds U.S. government officials a distorted view of the Israel/Palestine conflict. AIPAC takes U.S. representatives on sugar-coated trips to Israel. In 2011, AIPAC took one out of very five members of Congress—and many of their spouses—on a free junket to Israel to see precisely what the Israeli government wanted them to see. It is illegal for lobby groups to take Congresspeople on trips, but AIPAC gets around the law by creating a bogus educational group, AIEF, to “organize” the trips for them. AIEF has the same office address as AIPAC and the same staff. These trips help cement the ties between AIPAC and Congress, furthering their undue influence.

9. AIPAC lobbies for billions of U.S. taxdollars to go to Israel instead of rebuilding America. While our country is reeling from a prolonged financial crisis, AIPAC is pushing for no cuts in military funds for Israel, a wealthy nation. With communities across the nation slashing budgets for teachers, firefighters and police, AIPAC pushes for over $3 billion a year to Israel.

10. Money to Israel takes funds from world’s poor. Israel has the 24th largest economy in the world, but thanks to AIPAC, it gets more U.S. taxdollars than any other country. At a time when the foreign aid budget is being slashed, keeping the lion’s share of foreign assistance for Israel meaning taking funds from critical programs to feed, provide shelter and offer emergency assistance to the world’s poorest people.

The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has influence on U.S. policy out of all proportion to the number of Americans who support its policies. When a small group like this has disproportionate power, that hurts everyone—including Israelis and American Jews.

From stopping a catastrophic war with Iran to finally solving the Israel/Palestine conflict, an essential starting point is breaking AIPAC’s grip on U.S. policy.

www.alternet.org/module/printversion/154353

[boutons_deux]

...

[GSH]

Let's face the facts, Israel is a semi-theocracy
Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of 2009, with its many religious attributes, is closer to Tehran.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/gideon-levy-let-s-face-the-facts-israel-is-a-semi-theocracy-1.2438

You're quoting another socialist asshole like yourself, who thinks that any religion is too much religion. Of course he is going to see things the same way you do. The percentage of people in Israel who would support adopting Torah law is infinitesimal. In fact, the idea of it actually happening is laughable. But there are always people who would like to stamp out any vestige of religious speech. Your heroes.

I lived there and saw things first hand. The only thing you know is the group-think crap you read. The fact that one asshole writes an article is supposed to override reality? Maybe in your world - not in mine.

[GSH]

Heh... Che is out there right now researching. When he finds out that the guy he quoted is, in fact, a socialist asshole who believes that any religion is too much religion, he'll have to take a different approach. A direct rebuttal won't be possible, so he'll have to resort to distraction and deflection. The oblique approach. With any luck he will craft his response without reading this, and I will look positively psychic.:D

For those of you who are more objective - let me assure you. Isreal is so far from Tehran, and their religious oligarchy, that is is silly to even think in those terms.

The non-Jew Arabs who live in Israel claim that they were settled in Jerusalem, and that it was their capital, long before the Jews ever arrived there - in spite of overwhelming archeological evidence. Che would scream if someone was ignoring archaeology to, say, dispute evolution. But in this case, he will overlook it.

[Nbadan]

The non-Jew Arabs who live in Israel claim that they were settled in Jerusalem, and that it was their capital, long before the Jews ever arrived there - in spite of overwhelming archeological evidence. Che would scream if someone was ignoring archaeology to, say, dispute evolution. But in this case, he will overlook it.

See, the Mexicans do own California and Texas...check the archaeology!

:lol

[Nbadan]

Isreal is so far from Tehran

but Netanyahu and Ahmedinejad are nearly indistinguishable...


Israel's Haaretz and Israel Hayom newspapers reported Wednesday that Netanyahu wants Obama to deliver an explicit military threat to Iran in a joint statement to be issued after the meeting.


Israeli officials have told the U.S. it will not give any warning of an impending attack

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/29/netanyahu-expected-to-press-obama-to-threaten-iran-with-military-action/#ixzz1nqNb8Zym


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/29/netanyahu-expected-to-press-obama-to-threaten-iran-with-military-action/#ixzz1nqNLslBQ



"Israel's regime will be wiped off the map"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

[Winehole23]

If you listen to the on-going political conversation in Washington, Israelis hate President Obama and are pining for a Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney to take the White House, destroy Iran and generally make the world a happy place again. But a new poll paints a very different picture.


For starters, the poll (http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=259889) shows that when it comes to the coming presidential election itself Jewish Israelis prefer President Obama to all four of the remaining Republican candidates. Mitt Romney gets closest — Obama 32%, Romney 29%. Santorum does the worst — Obama 34%, Santorum 21%.


Ironically (or perhaps not ironically — who knows?), when the poll was opened up to all Israelis (i.e., Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs), Mitt ties Obama.



As you can see, the poll found very high numbers of undecideds, which you’d expect when talking about the leadership of another country. But the really interesting data comes on the question of an attack on Iran — particularly the level of support if it’s done without the sign-off of the United States.


Here’s the breakdown.


19% of Jewish Israelis support a strike against Iran even without the backing of the United States.


42% say they support only if there is US support for the move.


32% say they don’t support it under any circumstances.



The poll was conducted by Shibley Telhami, Brookings Nonresident Senior Fellow and the Anwar Sadat Professor for Peace and Development at the University of Maryland. The poll itself is online here (http://ter.ps/fr).



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/02/but_they_hate_him_right.php?ref=fpblg

[Wild Cobra]

The non-Jew Arabs who live in Israel claim that they were settled in Jerusalem, and that it was their capital, long before the Jews ever arrived there - in spite of overwhelming archeological evidence. Che would scream if someone was ignoring archaeology to, say, dispute evolution. But in this case, he will overlook it.
Even those who don't claim that, say that Jerusalem belongs to them. They seem to have a mentality that once any of their kind was someplace, it belongs to them.

[ChumpDumper]

Even those who don't claim that, say that Jerusalem belongs to them. They seem to have a mentality that once any of their kind was someplace, it belongs to them.So why do you think Oregon belongs to your kind?

[cheguevara]

BTW - "Jew" isn't a pejorative, except in the small minds of some bigots. They call themselves Jews. "Jewish" is typically used in relation to religion, but not always. There are lots of non-Jew Israelis. The Bedouin communities are all over the country, for instance.

these bedouins? :lmao

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/03/01/the-forgotten-plight-of-the-bedouin-in-the-holy-land/

The Bedouin of Israel and the occupied territories are easy to pick on. Self-identifying as neither Israeli nor Palestinian, not often considered as such by either community in return, their plight is less attention-grabbing, less politically-infused than that of other communities in the Holy Land. Accordingly, when their rights are apparently under assault, their suffering can easily disappear under the radar.

Never fully comfortable guests in either national camp, it is the actions of Israel that ostensibly have been the most cruel to the Bedouin. In July 2010, Israeli forces swept into the village of Al-Araqib in Israel’s southern Negev (Arabic: Naqab) desert, destroying houses, olive trees, animal shelters to clear the “unrecognised” land of its allegedly illegal occupants.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/23/us-israel-bedouin-idUSTRE7AM2EZ20111123

Bulldozed by Israel more than two dozen times, a village known by Bedouin Arabs as Al-Arakib is one of many ramshackle desert communities whose names have never appeared on any official map.

If Israel's parliament adopts proposed new legislation, it never will.

The plan to demolish more Bedouin homes in the southern Negev region and move 30,000 people to government-authorized villages connected to power and water lines has been hailed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as a "historic opportunity" to improve Bedouin lives.

But Israeli Arab leaders, who have long complained about discrimination against their community in the Jewish state, call it "ethnic cleansing," and aim to thwart the project with protests, a general strike and appeals to the United Nations to intervene.

[Winehole23]

damn gypsies

[GSH]

I traveled from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem with one of my work colleagues, for a meeting. About two weeks later, we went back for a follow-up meeting. As we drove, I looked out my window and saw something that made me blurt out, "What the hell is that!!?" There on one of the hills was a HUGE encampment of tents and ramshackle tin buildings. The driver of the car didn't seem surprised at all. He told me it was sort of a squatter's village. I was just shocked at the size of it, and the fact that it wasn't there a couple of weeks before.

He went on to tell me that within a few months, there would be scores of permanent buildings going up. (Everything there is made of concrete.) And then, he said, they would claim that they had always lived there, and the land would effectively belong to them. Most normal people (other than Boutons, Che, and the like) would be a little freaked out by that. I was.

I asked why the government didn't stop them. He just shrugged, "What can you do?" I said I didn't know, but you just allow people to seize land like that? He had pulled to the side of the road, to let me have a look. He pointed to a spot on the ridge, "You see that satellite truck up there? Al-Jazerra. If we even talk mean to them, the video will go out all over the world by the next morning, and we will be accused of kicking them off their land."

It's an amazing dance. They claim that it is some historic settlement, knowing that it's a lie. Because, as Boutons explained so eloquently, the truth doesn't matter. The ends justify the means, and anything is okay because they have "right" on their side. And they call other people religious zealots.

Can you imagine any country, anywhere in the world, putting up with that? Why does Israel? Because they are fighting a battle of public perception in the media, and their gun doesn't have any bullets. The media distributes everything Al-Jazeera says, without question. And a bunch of sheep buy into everything they are told to believe.

[GSH]

There's a follow-up to the story. I was driving to the Galilee area, and passed a mature version of the village I described. There were hundreds, if not thousands of homes built on both sides of the highway. Every one of them looked as if it was still under construction, because there were ledges on the top story with long pieces of rebar sticking upward. You will note that these were not hovels. They were mostly two-story homes, as nice as nearly any in Tel Aviv. (Above average, really.) But overall, there was a shabby appearance, because of the exposed rebar.

When we got to our destination, I asked someone about all the unfinished houses. They explained that there was no tax on a house still under construction. So they finish their houses to appear to be unfinished. And that way, they don't pay their share of taxes. The Jewish inhabitants pay to educate their children, and they get the same quality of education as everyone else. The Jewish inhabitants pay to bring water lines and electricity to the villages, because to do otherwise would be wrong. And they get all of that for free. They take and take, without giving their fair share, and still bitch about everything. Is it any wonder that they appeal to people like Boutons?

[GSH]

How about another follow-up. There's a highway leading out of Jerusalem. (Different road.) Along both sides, there are miles of these gigantic bullet-proof screens. Why? Because one of those "squatters villages" sprung up on both sides of the highway, and the residents thought it was fun to sit up on the hills and shoot innocent people driving by. Hell, yeah. Kill 'em like hunting deer.

Why did they build miles of bullet-proof shields, rather than go after the bastards shooting people? Same reason they don't get rid of the illegal villages to begin with. Because, by the time the story got to televisions around the world, it would say that the mean Jews were harassing the peaceful villagers.

Can you imagine having to live like that? Having people shoot at you while you drive home, for no reason? Being unable to stop the murderers, out of fear of public opinion? Being forced to spend the money on a bullet-proof screen, because it's the only alternative open to you? And THEN, still being accused of mistreating the murderers?

It's really easy for people like Che to spout the propaganda they have been fed. They've never had to live with the realities. I guarantee you, NONE of the rest of you would feel like the villian if the government chose to bulldoze the damn village. No matter what some people try to tell you, the tolerance of the Israelis is far, far beyond anything I have seen elsewhere. Most of you would not believe the daily level of provocation and outrageous behavior they live with.

[boutons_deux]

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent

AIPAC does not drive Middle Eastern policy in the United States. I am afraid it is worse than that. AIPAC is one of an array of powerful and well-funded neoconservative institutions that worship force and drive our relations with the rest of the world. These neoconservatives choose an enemy and then our compliant class of journalists, specialists, military analysts, columnists and television commentators line up to serve as giddy cheerleaders for war. Moments like these always make me embarrassed to be a reporter. Our political elite, Republican and Democrat, finds in this ideology a simple, childish allure. This ideology does not require cultural, historical or linguistic literacy. It reduces the world to black and white, good and evil. The drumbeat for war with Iran sounded by AIPAC is part of this broad, sick, binary vision of a world that can be subjugated by force, a world where all will be made to kneel before these corporate and neoconservative elites, where none, including finally us, will be permitted to whisper dissent.

Pre-emptive war, under post-Nuremberg law, is defined as a criminal act of aggression. George W. Bush, whose disregard for the rule of law was legend, went to the U.N. for a resolution to attack Iraq, although his interpretation of the U.N. resolution as justifying the invasion of Iraq had dubious legal merit. But in this current debate over war with Iran, that pretense of legality is ignored. Where is Israel’s U.N. resolution authorizing it to strike Iran? Why isn’t anyone demanding that Israel seek one? Why does the only discussion in the media and among political elites center around the questions of “Will Israel attack Iran?” “Can it successfully carry out an attack?” “What will happen if there is an attack?” The essential question is left unasked. Does Israel have the right to attack Iran? And here the answer is very, very clear. It does not.

These neoconservatives were too blind and too enamored of their own power to see what invading Afghanistan and Iraq would trigger; so too are they unable to comprehend the regional conflagration that would be unleashed by attacking Iran, what it would mean for us, for Israel, for our allies and for tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of innocents.

“Where there is no vision, the people perish,” the Bible warns.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/aipac_works_for_the_1_percent_20120304/

The MIC wants this war to continue to suck wealth from taxpayers.

[boutons_deux]

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent

AIPAC does not drive Middle Eastern policy in the United States. I am afraid it is worse than that. AIPAC is one of an array of powerful and well-funded neoconservative institutions that worship force and drive our relations with the rest of the world. These neoconservatives choose an enemy and then our compliant class of journalists, specialists, military analysts, columnists and television commentators line up to serve as giddy cheerleaders for war. Moments like these always make me embarrassed to be a reporter. Our political elite, Republican and Democrat, finds in this ideology a simple, childish allure. This ideology does not require cultural, historical or linguistic literacy. It reduces the world to black and white, good and evil. The drumbeat for war with Iran sounded by AIPAC is part of this broad, sick, binary vision of a world that can be subjugated by force, a world where all will be made to kneel before these corporate and neoconservative elites, where none, including finally us, will be permitted to whisper dissent.

Pre-emptive war, under post-Nuremberg law, is defined as a criminal act of aggression. George W. Bush, whose disregard for the rule of law was legend, went to the U.N. for a resolution to attack Iraq, although his interpretation of the U.N. resolution as justifying the invasion of Iraq had dubious legal merit. But in this current debate over war with Iran, that pretense of legality is ignored. Where is Israel’s U.N. resolution authorizing it to strike Iran? Why isn’t anyone demanding that Israel seek one? Why does the only discussion in the media and among political elites center around the questions of “Will Israel attack Iran?” “Can it successfully carry out an attack?” “What will happen if there is an attack?” The essential question is left unasked. Does Israel have the right to attack Iran? And here the answer is very, very clear. It does not.

These neoconservatives were too blind and too enamored of their own power to see what invading Afghanistan and Iraq would trigger; so too are they unable to comprehend the regional conflagration that would be unleashed by attacking Iran, what it would mean for us, for Israel, for our allies and for tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of innocents.

“Where there is no vision, the people perish,” the Bible warns.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/aipac_works_for_the_1_percent_20120304/

The MIC, the UCA, drive the US into wars as their business opportunities.