Shocking: Obama cuts healthcare benefits for active duty troops

[cheguevara]

but leaves Unionized Defense workers untouched :wow

why does he hate our troops? :depressed

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2012/02/28/barack-obama-looks-to-cut-military-healthcare-tricare-but-not-for-unionized-civilian-defense-workers/

If anyone was still wondering which side of the fence that Obama stood on when it comes to the US military, they need look no farther than his proposed budget. Obama looks to cut healthcare benefits for active duty and retired US military, while while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits unchanged. Go figure.

The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.

The disparity in treatment between civilian and uniformed personnel is causing a backlash within the military that could undermine recruitment and retention.

[cheguevara]

Ron Paul Issues Statement on Obama’s Proposed Tricare Cuts
“Failing to meet the promises we have made to our troops would be unjust and immoral”

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120228006762/en/Ron-Paul-Issues-Statement-Obama%E2%80%99s-Proposed-Tricare


LAKE JACKSON, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--2012 Republican Presidential candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul issued the following statement regarding the Obama administration’s latest proposal to seek cuts in Tricare benefits for veterans and active military. See comments below.

“As President, I intend to keep the promises and commitments we have made as a nation to our troops, because they are the ones that sacrifice everything to keep us free.”
“As a Doctor, an Air Force Veteran, and Congressman, who serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee and has always fought for the best interest of our troops, I am appalled at President Obama’s disregard for the health and well-being of America’s military families and his continued fealty to union boss special interests.

“The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget would require military families and retirees to pay exceedingly more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. This is unacceptable.

“Our military men and women have fought bravely, and in exchange, our country made a promise to them that we must honor. There are trillions of dollars in unwise and unconstitutional spending we must cut. And there are few other leaders in Washington willing to cut spending as deeply as I am and truly balance our budget. But we must make sure we take care of our veterans and military personnel who fight to take care of us.

“We have put our troops in harm’s way, and we must honor our promises. Our troops have paid a heavy price these past 10 years. Over 5,000 have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, 40,000 have seen crushing injuries, and hundreds of thousands more suffer from brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder.

“Failing to meet the promises we have made to our troops would be unjust and immoral.

“Instead of cutting our veterans’ benefits, President Obama should truly support our troops by bringing them home to protect our borders and defend our country. Re-unite them with their families and make sure they no longer play policeman in dangerous foreign civil wars. Cutting the benefits of our veterans while we subsidize the security of other wealthy nations like Germany and Japan and play ‘world policeman’ makes no sense.

“As a Congressman, I have taken very seriously my duty to ensure that our fighting men and women are well taken care of and given the respect, dignity, and appreciation they have earned. That is why I introduced H.R. 1092, the Military Retirees Health Care Protection Act, which prohibits the Department of Defense from increasing Tricare fees without congressional approval. I urge my fellow members of Congress, and the other GOP presidential candidates to support this action and support our troops.

“As President, I intend to keep the promises and commitments we have made as a nation to our troops, because they are the ones that sacrifice everything to keep us free.”

what a classy guy :cry

[cheguevara]

"According to one congressional estimate, a retired Army colonel with a family currently paying $460 a year for health coverage would pay $2,048 under the new price schedule."

:( support our troops

[boutons_deux]

aka "shared sacrifice", which excludes the 1%.

dubya's unfunded wars and unfunded tax cuts and unfunded Medicare stuff finally comes looking for funds, and only the 99% "share the sacrifice".

The military pushed for starting and extending these deficit-deepening wars and eternal MIC expansion, now they can pay for it.

[cheguevara]

The military pushed for starting and extending these deficit-deepening wars and eternal MIC expansion, now they can pay for it.

the MIC pushed it. Not the troops.

yet, we still reward the MIC and not the troops.

oh and let's also leave the union defense workers(who also pushed for it) alone. They are good voting folk.

[ChumpDumper]

Wouldn't the unions have to be dealt with through a collective bargaining process. You know, like they do with unions?

[johnsmith]

Wouldn't the unions have to be dealt with through a collective bargaining process. You know, like they do with unions?

That's what I was wondering too.....having said that, what do you think about the OP, besides his aside about unions?

[ChumpDumper]

That's what I was wondering too.....having said that, what do you think about the OP, besides his aside about unions?Any cuts suck, but a couple thousand dollars for a year of family health care doesn't sound completely onerous.

What do you think?

[johnsmith]

Any cuts suck, but a couple thousand dollars for a year of family health care doesn't sound completely onerous.

What do you think?

I personally think that soldiers and their money should never be fucked with. No matter what part of their money, be it their pay, or their insurance, or extended benefits, they should only go up....never down.

Also, I keep asking you your thoughts on shit because the schtick that you use when constantly questioning everyone, while always hilarious imo, but you stopped addressing things almost completely. You have good takes on political issues, and the only way you discuss them is if you're asked.

That's all.

[cheguevara]

Dump hates our troops :cry

[ChumpDumper]

Dump hates our troops :cryI would hope any cuts are phased in, but I don't think anyone should be immune as a matter of course. To be sure there are other things that should probably be cut first.

[cheguevara]

Unionized Defense workers seem to be immune

[ChumpDumper]

Unionized Defense workers seem to be immuneYou never answered my question about them, so I'm just going to assume you're wrong. It's always the safe bet.

[cheguevara]

That's the point. Obama didn't even try to go though a process to cut Union benefits, whatever that process is.

[ChumpDumper]

That's the point. Obama didn't even try to go though a process to cut Union benefits, whatever that process is.Do you know anything about the process?

Again, I'm going with "No."

That's the point.

[cheguevara]

Do you know anything about the process?

Again, I'm going with "No."

That's the point.

doesn't matter, you don't know it either.

Obama didn't start it. that's all we need to know. And we all know why

[ChumpDumper]

doesn't matter, you don't know it either.

Obama didn't start it. that's all we need to know. And we all know whyNo, we don't. That's the whole point, you idiot.

[cheguevara]

:lol Dumpster

that's your point. My point is Obama left Unions untouched

[cheguevara]

:lol Dumpster

that's your point. My point is Obama left Unions untouched

[boutons_deux]

the MIC pushed it. Not the troops.

yet, we still reward the MIC and not the troops.

oh and let's also leave the union defense workers(who also pushed for it) alone. They are good voting folk.

MIC includes guys like the Colonel above, and all the brass that run and extend the wars to pad their careers, chest ribbons, and war premiums.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Dumpster

that's your point. My point is Obama left Unions untouchedBut you don't know why.

You admitted you didn't then claimed you did.

You lied. You're a liar. Per usual.

[cheguevara]

I never claimed I knew the process. :lol

Obama still left them untouched :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Chump, lets phrase this differently.

Do you honestly think Obama would stand up to the SEICU and other unions to reduce Federal civilian employee health benefits in order the save the Federal Government money like he did with the military?

[CosmicCowboy]

Furthermore, do you think that Obama would stand up to the SEICU and other unions to shift Federal civilian retirement benefits from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan?

[CosmicCowboy]

Furthermore, do you think that Obama would stand up to the SEICU and other unions to shift Federal civilian retirement benefits from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan?

oops, SEIU and not SEICU.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I wouldn't bother with dump.

Get it from the source
aQ1NJaCtIkM

[Wild Cobra]

He keeps trying to destry this nation. I sure hope we survive.

[Wild Cobra]

I was skeptical of the accuracy at first, but tracing various links... Multiple sites.

From Find Law:Obama cuts military health care benefits, leaves unionized civilians untouched (http://legalnews.findlaw.com/article/01Cm8I69nbg6n?q=Barack+Obama). I don't think this site would publish bunk.

Links to:

Obama cuts military health care benefits, leaves unionized civilians untouched (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49819)

[ElNono]

Wouldn't Congress have to approve this?

[cheguevara]

Wouldn't Congress have to approve this?

they already did. it was all part of the deal to avoid default.

:lol the "super committee" was supposed to find a solution

if they didn't then cuts all across the board. (except unions :lol)

[ElNono]

they already did. it was all part of the deal to avoid default.

:lol the "super committee" was supposed to find a solution

if they didn't then cuts all across the board. (except unions :lol)

Link to this? Everything I read says Congress would have to approve those cuts.

[cheguevara]

On Nov. 21, the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction announced they had failed to come to a bipartisan agreement on deficit reduction measures. The super committee’s failure means that $1.2 trillion in automatic cuts known as “sequestration” will take place in 2013. The more immediate impact of the committee’s failure is Congress must now deal with several issues that were assumed to be addressed in the deficit reduction plan.

In addition to creating the super committee, the Budget Control Act created a process to enact budget cuts regardless of the committee’s outcome. The cuts totaling $1.2 trillion will come from defense ($450B), non-defense ($300B) and entitlement programs ($170B) starting in 2013. According to the Congressional Budget Office, as a percentage of defense spending, nothing will be cut more than 10 percent.

http://news.agc.org/2011/11/23/super-committee-fails-across-the-board-cuts-coming-in-2013/

[ElNono]

Troops certainly love their welfare...

[ElNono]

http://news.agc.org/2011/11/23/super-committee-fails-across-the-board-cuts-coming-in-2013/

Right. Congress still have to decide what gets cut within those parameters. Read the linked stories.

[ChumpDumper]

I never claimed I knew the process. :lol

Obama still left them untouched :lolYou can't even claim to know he could touch them at this time, idiot. you don't even know what you are saying.


Chump, lets phrase this differently.

Do you honestly think Obama would stand up to the SEICU and other unions to reduce Federal civilian employee health benefits in order the save the Federal Government money like he did with the military?


Furthermore, do you think that Obama would stand up to the SEICU and other unions to shift Federal civilian retirement benefits from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan?Sure. Absolutely. It's not like he has held a hard line on -- anything.

[JoeChalupa]

He keeps trying to destry this nation. I sure hope we survive.

You sound like Santorum.

[Winehole23]

He keeps trying to destry this nation. I sure hope we survive.http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsS/16540-4879.gif

[ChumpDumper]

He keeps trying to destry this nation. I sure hope we survive.You're full of shit.

[ChumpDumper]

I was skeptical of the accuracy at first, but tracing various links... Multiple sites.

From Find Law:Obama cuts military health care benefits, leaves unionized civilians untouched (http://legalnews.findlaw.com/article/01Cm8I69nbg6n?q=Barack+Obama). I don't think this site would publish bunk.

Links to:

Obama cuts military health care benefits, leaves unionized civilians untouched (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49819)Wow.

FindLaw posts links to articles!

[CosmicCowboy]

Sure. Absolutely. It's not like he has held a hard line on -- anything.

:lmao

You REALLY can't believe that. Obama will NEVER cross the SEIU.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

You REALLY can't believe that. Obama will NEVER cross the SEIU.Sure I can believe it. Speaking in absolutes is pretty stupid.

[spursncowboys]

pay raises to end in 15. insurance to go up by 400%+ in the next five years. With 80k soldiers getting the boot.

[spursncowboys]

they already did. it was all part of the deal to avoid default.

:lol the "super committee" was supposed to find a solution

if they didn't then cuts all across the board. (except unions :lol)

This is just the military getting hosed. civilian DOD aren't included in this.

[Goran Dragic]

so now it looks like they ARE gone and forgotten :lmao

[AFBlue]

To answer the question about unionized workers, yes there is a collective bargaining agreement that is negotiated regularly.

[AFBlue]

Troops certainly love their welfare...

It's not welfare...those benefits are earned through years of service, multiple moves, and deployments. I'm not outraged by this because it doesn't look like there's much impact, but it would seem Congress and the president could find cuts elsewhere.

[Jacob1983]

In crap dumper's eyes, Obama is perfect and can do no wrong. He gets a break on anything because it's evil dummy Bush's fault. If Obama sharted while giving a speech, it would be Bush's fault.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

"According to one congressional estimate, a retired Army colonel with a family currently paying $460 a year for health coverage would pay $2,048 under the new price schedule."

:( support our troops

That's the cost of about two months of employee + family HC on a good plan at my work.

tbh, Pandora's box was opened under Bush I when they started charging ANYTHING for HC. This was inevitable. The retirement was changed, too. You only get 40% of base pay after 20 years now, not 50%.

[Nbadan]

let's not forget the billions to trillions in the future we will be spending to treat the victims of Dubya's wars....sucks that the DOD can't prioritize its budget and has to play games like this to feed the anti-cut-the-defense budget crowd...

[ChumpDumper]

To answer the question about unionized workers, yes there is a collective bargaining agreement that is negotiated regularly.See what I mean?


In crap dumper's eyes, Obama is perfect and can do no wrong. He gets a break on anything because it's evil dummy Bush's fault. If Obama sharted while giving a speech, it would be Bush's fault.I didn't blame Bush for your being the stupidest posted on this board.

[AFBlue]

let's not forget the billions to trillions in the future we will be spending to treat the victims of Dubya's wars....sucks that the DOD can't prioritize its budget and has to play games like this to feed the anti-cut-the-defense budget crowd...

In my six years in the Air Force I was subject to two force reduction efforts that were a result of DoD prioritization from slashed budgets. I also saw programs like the F/A-22 cut overall production in half.

Whether you want to believe it or not, defense budgets are shrinking and the DoD has always prioritized.

[cheguevara]

That's the cost of about two months of employee + family HC on a good plan at my work.

tbh, Pandora's box was opened under Bush I when they started charging ANYTHING for HC. This was inevitable. The retirement was changed, too. You only get 40% of base pay after 20 years now, not 50%.

2 points:

- do you go overseas to fight leaving your family behind at the risk of death at your work?
- even if it was inevitable, why leave unionized defense workers untouched?

[AFBlue]

See what I mean?

To be fair CD, not being a government civilian myself I'm not sure exactly what is negotiated within each CBA. I know it sets work rules, but I don't know if it outlines health care coverage and/or costs.

[AFBlue]

2 points:

- do you go overseas to fight leaving your family behind at the risk of death at your work?
- even if it was inevitable, why leave unionized defense workers untouched?

Quick point about vilifying "unionized defense workers" Che. They also deploy, albeit voluntarily, and put themselves in harm's way. And actually they're the only group among regular "deployers" (service members, gov civilians and defense contractors) that pay taxes on the income they earn while deployed. I'm not saying they don't earn good money over there, but it would be wrong to assume they also don't make sacrifices.

[ChumpDumper]

And nobody knows what they pay now. That article was pure politics and the "independent thinkers" here accepted it without question.

[spursncowboys]

military are made to sign contracts. eight years initially. Therefore I feel they should be protected with an expected pay amount. Bush was the only one who has kept our pay near or above inflation.

[ElNono]

pay raises to end in 15. insurance to go up by 400%+ in the next five years. With 80k soldiers getting the boot.

We can't afford it! If they don't like it they should go get another job!

Or so we're told...

[ElNono]

It's not welfare...those benefits are earned through years of service, multiple moves, and deployments.

End tenure! Pay should be results-based!

Or so we're told...

[spursncowboys]

We can't afford it! If they don't like it they should go get another job!

Or so we're told...

I agree and alot of good ones are getting out. The problem is they signed contracts before this decision.

[spursncowboys]

El nono: you are trying to incorporate a union system and free market system with the military. The only group of people in america who are not protected by their constitutional rights.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its easier to kick the man whose not in the union, while not upsetting the unions...

why doesnt he do something about middle govt management....pay salary and perks

[ElNono]

El nono: you are trying to incorporate a union system and free market system with the military. The only group of people in america who are not protected by their constitutional rights.

I have no decision power, so I'm not incorporating anything. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy on the rhetoric.

[ElNono]

I agree and alot of good ones are getting out. The problem is they signed contracts before this decision.

Does the contract specify a particular percent rate? Should've read the fine print, I guess...

[AFBlue]

End tenure! Pay should be results-based!

Or so we're told...

Ties to welfare (i.e. the subject of my original rebuttal) how?

[spursncowboys]

Does the contract specify a particular percent rate? Should've read the fine print, I guess...

lmao. you don't know what you are talking about. like usual just generalizing and talking out of your ass. An enlistment contract with a percentage rate?congress cant even pass a budget and you want them to do that?

[ChumpDumper]

Nobody knows what the unionized workers are paying.

If you don't know, you don't know shit and can't really talk about this at all.

[Wild Cobra]

We can't afford it! If they don't like it they should go get another job!

Or so we're told...
Refer to post #56 please.

[jack sommerset]

Nobody knows what the unionized workers are paying.

If you don't know, you don't know shit and can't really talk about this at all.

Then stop talking about it. Advice can be a wonderful thing or a disaster. God bless.

[boutons_deux]

Keeping Wasteful Defense Spending vs. Helping Vets


http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/03/img/veterans_spending_chart1.jpg

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/03/veterans_spending.html

iow, MIC's corporate greed trumps welfare and pensions for veterans.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

2 points:

- do you go overseas to fight leaving your family behind at the risk of death at your work?
- even if it was inevitable, why leave unionized defense workers untouched?

- everybody dies, and they chose their profession. I have been in the military, and a big part of it is getting the short end of the stick. If they were to get what they should be compensated, you'd have to pay foot soldiers six figure salaries. Not practical, affordable or realistic.
- strawman. the conflict and money isn't with the unionized workers, it's with VERY expensive very useless weapons systems that won't help with our #1 threat: low tech fundamentalist Islamic extremist attacks. Drop just one wasteful multi-billion dollar weapons system, and everybody gets paid.

[ChumpDumper]

Then stop talking about it. Advice can be a wonderful thing or a disaster. God bless.You must have suffered head trauma recently.

[ElNono]

Ties to welfare (i.e. the subject of my original rebuttal) how?

That's what I've been hearing here when teachers (who also have a contract) complain they have to pay more out of their pockets for health insurance and the like...

Welfare! End tenure!

[ElNono]

lmao. you don't know what you are talking about. like usual just generalizing and talking out of your ass. An enlistment contract with a percentage rate?congress cant even pass a budget and you want them to do that?

Does the enlistment contract include a clause indicating their contribution to health care won't change for the duration? Should be pretty easy to answer since you're allegedly familiar with these contracts...

[spursncowboys]

What the hell are you talking about? who is talking about clauses? The congress sets the budget. Therefore of course there is no guaranteed future earnings.

[AFBlue]

- strawman. the conflict and money isn't with the unionized workers, it's with VERY expensive very useless weapons systems that won't help with our #1 threat: low tech fundamentalist Islamic extremist attacks. Drop just one wasteful multi-billion dollar weapons system, and everybody gets paid.

1. There HAS been a drastic shift in the focus of emerging technology to tracking and targeting individuals. There's a full article about it in a recent Popular Science.

2. Weapon systems take several years to be brought from concept to deployment, so it's not a surprise that we have systems in late development or deployment that don't exactly counter our current threat.

3. Because weapon systems take so long to design, build, test and deploy it's the military's responsibility to not only address the current threat but to also perceive future threats and research concepts to address them as well.

I'm certainly not defending every program or their execution, but I thought this myopic post deserved some knowledgeable perspective.

[AFBlue]

That's what I've been hearing here when teachers (who also have a contract) complain they have to pay more out of their pockets for health insurance and the like...

Welfare! End tenure!

Welfare = Getting something for doing nothing

That's not the case with either the military or Unionized workers. It's not that I disagree with pay-for-performance, but the current long-term care for military is far from welfare.