Spurs Need a Trade Miracle Like 2005 [Archive]

roycrikside

03-05-2012, 03:23 AM

We bashed the guy for his awful hands down low and all his stupid pump fakes, but the fact is we wouldn't have won the title in 2005 if not for the trade where we got Nazr Mohammad for Malik Rose who was done by then.

Now, Blair is our Malik. He's undersized and too unathletic to play. He's lost his explosiveness, what little he ever had, and he's just a liability now at both ends. Tim protects him as much as he can, and it's to Duncan's credit that even at 36 he's still an asset out there, but he can't work miracles with shit around him, and make no mistake, both Blair and Jefferson are absolute dogshit.

We're one big short right now to be legit contenders. Somehow, some way, we need to get a guy who can start next to Tim and shore up our defense and rebounding. Splitter can be the 3rd big and Bonner the 4th.

If we don't find a way to make a trade, whether it's Okafor or someone of that ilk, then we've got zero chance. It's that simple.

therealtruth

03-05-2012, 03:32 AM

I'll set the bar even lower. Just find a decent third big like Dice from last year. Splitter can fill the PF spot.

TJastal

03-05-2012, 03:35 AM

:tu

Watching Kenyon Martin play a masterful role (in 20 minutes roughly) last week makes me think he would have been the ideal fit here in SA. I bet Pop probably gave barely a half hearted effort at obtaining him, considering all he took was a 1 year 2.5m deal from the clippers.

Same old story. Other teams make moves to get better while Pop plays patty cake with his favorite Dick.

Spursfanfromafar

03-05-2012, 03:39 AM

No Isiah Thomases around these days :(.

jgome21

03-05-2012, 10:13 AM

Yeah, we need to get ride of Blair and James Anderson. Blair is always going to be a mismatch in the playoffs cuz of his size and erratic play and Anderson never really plays anyways, and can't make a three to save his soul, so might as well ship em off both.

silverblk mystix

03-05-2012, 10:15 AM

:pop:"Miracle? Here it is; I'm going to DOUBLE Matty's minutes in the playoffs!!!"

Cane

03-05-2012, 10:20 AM

JRHernandez88

03-05-2012, 10:36 AM

Well see within the next 10 days. So if we don't get one what are you Gona bitch and stop watching the spurs because we have "0" chance. Man this is sports anything can happen the lakers got the best front court in the league and ain't Gona do a dam thing. Just sit back and let it unfold. These our the last years of our golden years and I'm enjoying every minute. Dam Timmy still kickin ass and Manu Gona be a beast come playoff time. Matchups are everything and sometimes all you need is a little luck.

TJastal

03-05-2012, 10:38 AM

Spurs have the same match-up weaknesses as last year, they do not want to face against a big or athletic team.

The Grizz had both of those advantages. For some reason everyone underates just how athletic the Grizz were especially in the backcourt, they were like pitbulls and the Spurs looked like they were playing in slow motion compared to them. The Grizz frontcourt had size, depth, and youth that overpowered and frustrated Duncan/Dice/etc, and the Grizz bigs were even good at midrange too. Luckily there are no Western teams that are as athletic and big as the Grizz were last season, and the Spurs do have Leonard/Splitter playing significant mins to help.

But the Spurs need another legit big and health to truly contend, sounds like the same old song and dance for the past few seasons. They could also use good old luck, the Lakers size is going to be a nightmare

Not seeing it tbh. I called a thunder triumph last year, pointing out their frontline capabilities were on par (or better) than the grizz.

The thunder, mavs & lakers could have all taken out the grizzlies last year. All could equally match the grizz's size and physicality in the frontcourt.

But if it makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night to imagine the grizzlies were far superior to everyone else by all means keep doing so.

urunobili

03-05-2012, 10:38 AM

if only NOH would take Dick n' Blair for Kaman... :depressed

ElNono

03-05-2012, 10:40 AM

Whoever is thinking Splitter or any new big we could realistically get will be in front of Bonner in the bigmen rotation when it matters are just lying to themselves.

ElNono

03-05-2012, 10:45 AM

Luckily there are no Western teams that are as athletic and big as the Grizz were last season

OKC is, arguably, just as big and more athletic. They don't have the offensive low post game, but they have better low post defenders. Harden is playing crazy well off the bench and it's become incredibly tough to beat them in their place.

ElNono

03-05-2012, 10:47 AM

A healthy Denver is another team with the same mix of bigs/athleticism. Portland comes to mind too, although at a lower tier.

Cane

03-05-2012, 10:47 AM

Not seeing it tbh. I called a thunder triumph last year, pointing out their frontline capabilities were on par (or better) than the grizz.

The thunder, mavs & lakers could have all taken out the grizzlies last year. All could equally match the grizz's size and physicality in the frontcourt.

But if it makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night to imagine the grizzlies were far superior to everyone else by all means keep doing so.

Again gray Spurs fans focus on the Grizz frontcourt while widely underrating the Grizz backcourt. Grizz had the athletes on the perimeter and size in the paint to hurt the unhealthy Spurs, it was a terrible match up...grizz even tanked to see the silver and black :blah

ElNono

03-05-2012, 10:49 AM

Grizz don't concern me as much because they lost a key piece in Battier and the jury is still out on Rudy Gay making them better. Plus ZBo coming back this season isn't a sure-thing either.

TJastal

03-05-2012, 10:54 AM

Again gray Spurs fans focus on the Grizz frontcourt while widely underrating the Grizz backcourt. Grizz had the athletes on the perimeter and size in the paint to hurt the unhealthy Spurs, it was a terrible match up...grizz even tanked to see the silver and black :blah

I'm not focusing on anything but your assertion that there were no western conference teams that could match up with the grizz frontline, which is patently untrue.

And as far as the spurs go, technically they also had guys who could have better matched up (Splitter) but simply weren't used for whatever reason (until it was far too late).

Cane

03-05-2012, 10:54 AM

OKC is, arguably, just as big and more athletic. They don't have the offensive low post game, but they have better low post defenders. Harden is playing crazy well off the bench and it's become incredibly tough to beat them in their place.

A healthy Denver is another team with the same mix of bigs/athleticism. Portland comes to mind too, although at a lower tier.

Yea there's a reason why OKC is favored out of the West but the frontcourt comparisons don't hold much for me. Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, and Arthur are much tougher match up problems for the Spurs than the offensive liabilities that OKC put on the court.

Portland always puts up a fight and it'll be the same in the playoffs, Denver is going to struggle when they need go-to scoring.

But yea Spurs really don't want to match up against any athletic and/or big team, but tbh none of the teams out West really seem as good as the Grizz were last year in those areas

Cane

03-05-2012, 10:59 AM

I'm not focusing on anything but your assertion that there were no western conference teams that could match up with the grizz frontline, which is patently untrue.

If thats all you focused on then you need to check your reading comprehension, I didn't write that

And as far as the spurs go, technically they also had guys who could have better matched up (Splitter) but simply weren't used for whatever reason (until it was far too late).

That would've been nice but the Spurs would still have gotten abused by the Grizz backcourt, Parker struggled just to bring the ball up the court, and tbh the Grizz frontcourt would still have overpowered the Spurs

ElNono

03-05-2012, 11:01 AM

Yea there's a reason why OKC is favored out of the West but the frontcourt comparisons don't hold much for me. Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, and Arthur are much tougher match up problems for the Spurs than the offensive liabilities that OKC put on the court.

Portland always puts up a fight and it'll be the same in the playoffs, Denver is going to struggle when they need go-to scoring.

But yea Spurs really don't want to match up against any athletic or big team, but tbh none of the teams out West really seem as good as the Grizz were last year in those areas

As far as OKC is concerned, theres two ends on the court. While Ibaka/Perkins might be very limited offensively, they're terrific defenders for the most part. You actually also have to think how the Spurs matchup with them. Perkins is likely more than capable of guarding TD inside and that leaves Ibaka to swat anything that comes into the paint. To counter that, Spurs normally play either Bonner or smallball trying to draw Ibaka out of the paint (which, as we know by now, teams don't really do in the playoffs).

The only issue OKC has is Westbrook being kinda dumb at times. But they can score and Harden is lining up the 6th man award right now.

TJastal

03-05-2012, 11:02 AM

If thats all you focused on then you need to check your reading comprehension, I didn't write that

Luckily there are no Western teams that are as athletic and big as the Grizz were last season,

^To me that is the same claim.

That would've been nice but the Spurs would still have gotten abused by the Grizz backcourt, Parker struggled just to bring the ball up the court, and tbh the Grizz frontcourt would still have overpowered the Spurs

Bullshit.

Cane

03-05-2012, 11:06 AM

As far as OKC is concerned, theres two ends on the court. While Ibaka/Perkins might be very limited offensively, they're terrific defenders for the most part. You actually also have to think how the Spurs matchup with them. Perkins is likely more than capable of guarding TD inside and that leaves Ibaka to swat anything that comes into the paint. To counter that, Spurs normally play either Bonner or smallball trying to draw Ibaka out of the paint (which, as we know by now, teams don't really do in the playoffs).

The only issue OKC has is Westbrook being kinda dumb at times. But they can score and Harden is lining up the 6th man award right now.

OKC has more issues than just Westbrook, you even brought it up earlier - their lack of post scoring is going to hurt especially in the playoffs, they also rely a lot on finesse like jumpers.

Imo the Spurs will abuse Perkins on both ends of the court, a healthy Duncan or Splitter has enough in their arsenal to make Perkins look like a fool but Ibaka will be lurking.

Cane

03-05-2012, 11:08 AM

^To me that is the same claim.

Bullshit.

Tbh where did I write "that there were no western conference teams that could match up with the grizz frontline"? Seems like I just wrote that there were no West team that were as athletic AND as big as the Grizz were :wakeup

And sorry, Splitter wouldn't have saved the Grizz series. Dude would've been abused like Duncan and Dice were tbh

silverblk mystix

03-05-2012, 11:14 AM

Whoever is thinking Splitter or any new big we could realistically get will be in front of Bonner in the bigmen rotation when it matters are just lying to themselves.

:pop:"Son, you got me pegged!"

TJastal

03-05-2012, 11:20 AM

Tbh where did I write "that there were no western conference teams that could match up with the grizz frontline"? Seems like I just wrote that there were no West team that were as athletic AND as big as the Grizz were :wakeup

Splitting hairs.

And sorry, Splitter wouldn't have saved the Grizz series. Dude would've been abused like Duncan and Dice were tbh

Oh come now, Duncan got abused because he was gassed by the 2nd quarter of every game trying to cover Gasol by himself plus play off and give constant help to Bonner/Blair/Dice/whoever. I think Splitter would have helped tremendously if for no other reason than Duncan could have stayed home and guarded Zbo and not had to help off constantly. And maybe Zbo doesn't get into a zone by the 2nd half of every damn game that way and become unstoppable by the 4th quarters.

I love how you claim Splitter would have been such a failure when guys such as spur leftover of yesteryear Nazr Mohammed and all-star Nick Collison managed to succeed. :lmao

ElNono

03-05-2012, 11:22 AM

OKC has more issues than just Westbrook, you even brought it up earlier - their lack of post scoring is going to hurt especially in the playoffs, they also rely a lot on finesse like jumpers.

I disagree completely. Lack of post scoring can be offset by great post defense. They have that. We have neither.

Imo the Spurs will abuse Perkins on both ends of the court, a healthy Duncan or Splitter has enough in their arsenal to make Perkins look like a fool but Ibaka will be lurking.

Disagree. Perkins isn't Boston's Perkins, but he's more than serviceable.

TJastal

03-05-2012, 11:26 AM

I disagree completely. Lack of post scoring can be offset by great post defense. They have that. We have neither.

Disagree. Perkins isn't Boston's Perkins, but he's more than serviceable.

Perkins is capable of shutting down Dwight Howard on one of his good days. Damn why are we even arguing with this fool?

therealtruth

03-05-2012, 11:28 AM

Spurs have the same match-up weaknesses as last year, they do not want to face against a big or athletic team.

The Grizz had both of those advantages. For some reason everyone underates just how athletic the Grizz were especially in the backcourt, they were like pitbulls and the Spurs looked like they were playing in slow motion compared to them. The Grizz frontcourt had size, depth, and youth that overpowered and frustrated Duncan/Dice/etc, and the Grizz bigs were even good at midrange too. Luckily there are no Western teams that are as athletic and big as the Grizz were last season, and the Spurs do have Leonard/Splitter playing significant mins to help.

But the Spurs need another legit big and health to truly contend, sounds like the same old song and dance for the past few seasons. They could also use good old luck, the Lakers size is going to be a nightmare

The interesting thing is I think Splitter is the key to matching up with those teams. If you play him and TD together you can matchup one-on-one without helping. That means it's easier on the perimeter defenders because they don't have to help so much.

This team simply doesn't have the athleticism to try to play aggressive help defense against an athletic team. Pop refuses to recognize this and instead calls them out on effort. Another benefit they can also be more aggressive and not give up so many open jumpshots.

therealtruth

03-05-2012, 11:31 AM

Not seeing it tbh. I called a thunder triumph last year, pointing out their frontline capabilities were on par (or better) than the grizz.

The thunder, mavs & lakers could have all taken out the grizzlies last year. All could equally match the grizz's size and physicality in the frontcourt.

But if it makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night to imagine the grizzlies were far superior to everyone else by all means keep doing so.

The reason the Grizzlies lost is they didn't have enough perimeter scoring to augment their frontcourt. The Thunder basically said to Gasol and Randolph we're going to play you one on one and let you beat us but we're not allowing anyone else to get going.

sananspursfan21

03-05-2012, 12:18 PM

hmmm, seems like ive seen this post before...

timvp

03-05-2012, 12:31 PM

We bashed the guy for his awful hands down low and all his stupid pump fakes, but the fact is we wouldn't have won the title in 2005 if not for the trade where we got Nazr Mohammad for Malik Rose who was done by then.

The Nazr trade back in 2005 was primarily a salary dump. The Spurs actually wanted Kurt Thomas and settled for Nazr. Nazr actually becoming a productive member of that team was almost by accident. If you remember correctly, he didn't start until after Rasho sprained his ankle late in the season.

(Looking back at it, Nazr didn't start until April 10th. If Rasho doesn't sprain his ankle, do the Spurs win the championship? Possible not.)

Anyways, I think the situation is much more difficult now because in 2005 the Spurs had Horry, who was able to close games. Today, the Spurs don't have a legit starter or closer next to Duncan.

Let's hope Pop gives Duncan/Splitter a chance to sink or swim. Preferably before April 10th, tbh.

Cane

03-05-2012, 12:53 PM

Splitting hairs.

"patently untrue" :toast

Oh come now, Duncan got abused because he was gassed by the 2nd quarter of every game trying to cover Gasol by himself plus play off and give constant help to Bonner/Blair/Dice/whoever. I think Splitter would have helped tremendously if for no other reason than Duncan could have stayed home and guarded Zbo and not had to help off constantly. And maybe Zbo doesn't get into a zone by the 2nd half of every damn game that way and become unstoppable by the 4th quarters.

I love how you claim Splitter would have been such a failure when guys such as spur leftover of yesteryear Nazr Mohammed and all-star Nick Collison managed to succeed. :lmao

No doubt Splitter should have gotten more opportunities, and he still doesn't get enough in his second season. A rookie Spliiter probably would've struggled but anyway he wouldn't save the series. tbh with an injured Ginobili, inconsistent divorcee Parker, stubborn Pop, and hobbled players like Duncan and Dice, it was going to be a short run for the Spurs. Grizz smelled blood and tanked to exploit the mismatch :depressed

I disagree completely. Lack of post scoring can be offset by great post defense. They have that. We have neither.

Disagree. Perkins isn't Boston's Perkins, but he's more than serviceable.

OKC are the favored team in the West, just listed some of their issues but they got the talent and defense to get out of the conference. Spurs got a long way to go before they are considered legit contenders and they need a trade for a legit big.

Perkins is capable of shutting down Dwight Howard on one of his good days. Damn why are we even arguing with this fool?

In three of the four last games vs OKC, Dwight's put up 33+ pts fwiw :married:

Imo the Spurs want to attack and exploit Perkins when he's on the court, Duncan's midrange game helps a lot here and draws away either Perkins post defense or Ibaka's shotblocking.

Wild Cobra Kai

03-05-2012, 10:41 PM

TJastal

03-06-2012, 09:40 AM

It must absolutely suck to be you.

:lmao

Somebody pissed in your Bran flakes this morning?

superbigtime

03-06-2012, 07:36 PM

People talk about Grizzlies size in gasol, arthur and randolph but forget that tony allen just consistently kicked the spurs ass and relished it. and our smug dumbfuck socially backwards stubborn coach was outcoached by his counterpart.

dunkman

03-06-2012, 08:29 PM

Pop never uses a big acquired mid-season, in the playoffs. The last time he did so was with Nazr in 2005. Some struggle guarding and boxing out very strong and mobile bigs, even when they are shorter. The Spurs need that kind of player.

Duncan can score from the outside and still go inside. Splitter can't play PF on offense, but he's remarkably good near the basket. Bonner is great 3pt shooter, he's gaining more confidence in the playoffs. There is a lot of versatility.

While RJ can effectively guard some fast PFs, like Odom, that used to give the Spurs a lot of problems, and Leonard can rebound making him suitable too for small-ball, some deep at PF/C wouldn't hurt however. Dice could help, not sure if he has something left in the tank though.