How Fox reported high gas prices under Bush...

[fraga]

Mahahahahaha...classic...

UzEnKdBAb_o

[johnsmith]

So how are they reporting on it now? And how does either strategy, (then or now) affect gas prices?

[RandomGuy]

I have a coworker who says Fox "news" is not biased. I was stunned speechless when he said that.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yay Team! :facepalm

[GSH]

I can admit that FOX pimps for the Republican side. Can you admit that all the others pimp for the Dem side? I'm willing to bet you can't. Which makes you as bad as them.

[RandomGuy]

What would be even funnier would be putting up the clips of the Fox "news" talking heads side by side with their current parroting of GOP talking points.

[RandomGuy]

I can admit that FOX pimps for the Republican side. Can you admit that all the others pimp for the Dem side? I'm willing to bet you can't. Which makes you as bad as them.

To some extent, yes.

It is nowhere near as blatantly partisan as Fox.

Fox takes it to an absurd degree. (as is oooh so often pointed out to great humorous effect by the likes of Jon Stewart)

[TeyshaBlue]

Absurd degree. Interesting. As if there wasn't an absurd degree with bias.

[TeyshaBlue]

*googling metrics for absurdity*

[TeyshaBlue]

Ha! First hit.

http://contraposition.org/blog/2011/07/21/meaninglessness-absurdity-and-the-very-idea-of-a-sustainability-metric/

[GSH]

To some extent, yes.

It is nowhere near as blatantly partisan as Fox.

Fox takes it to an absurd degree.

That's ridiculous equivocation. I could spend the rest of the day - hell the rest of several days, showing all the absurd partisan bullshit on other stations. Things so blatant that you couldn't possibly defend them. But if I did that, it would just look like I am taking the other ideological side. I'm not.

I hate 'em all. They're all politicians, and shills for politicians. If you can keep a straight face while you say that one side is more blatant or partisan than the other, there's no point in arguing with you. You have your head up your ideology, and can't see anything else.

If there is any difference in the two "sides", it's this: far too many people on the left are comfortable with the idea that the FOX/Republican point of view should be shut down. The only thing that is even more dangerous than having the networks be political shills, is silencing all dissent.

[coyotes_geek]

Absurd degree. Interesting. As if there wasn't an absurd degree with bias.

It takes a proper application of confirmation bias to accurately identify absurd degree bias.

[johnsmith]

So how are they reporting on it now? And how does either strategy, (then or now) affect gas prices?

[cheguevara]

I have a coworker who says Fox "news" is not biased. I was stunned speechless when he said that.

:lmao :wow

that's like saying CNN or MSNBC are not biased

[George Gervin's Afro]

Quite a difference when a Democrat is in office.. just a coincedence I suppose

[johnsmith]

Quite a difference when a Democrat is in office.. just a coincedence I suppose

What's been the difference?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

:lol geez, you're so full of shit

[johnsmith]

How come no one has shown a comparison as to how it's now reported on?

Furthermore, I wonder how NBC was reporting on it in 2008, and how they're reporting on it now?

And I'm still curious how this affects anything?

[CosmicCowboy]

Fox NEWS IMHO really is fair and balanced. Fox OPINION commentators (O'Reilly, Hannity, etc.) clearly aren't. I don't understand why people refuse to see the difference.

Also IMHO CNN and MSNBC especially blur the lines between news and opinion more than Fox does.

[xrayzebra]

I think Fox News is the greatest along with Ruperts newscorp.

Want to see Liberalism at it's best, read the "San Antonio Express News".

Nearly always a social issue on the front page. (or better yet a sports
story....:lol)

[hater]

:lol thinking Fox is unbiased

:lol thinking CNN NBC are any better

[xrayzebra]

I love the fact that they may be biased. Like you all like ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN
NYT. Hmmmmm did I leave anyone out, more than likely. To show they bias they do.

[Yonivore]

After yesterday's vote on Keystone XL, combined with all the other anti-petroleum policies of this administration over the past 3 years, I think it's safe to say Obama and the Democrats own current gas prices...and, unemployment figures.


http://www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2012/03/KeystoneBlockage.jpg

[hater]

One thing we can agree on:
CNN is very subtly biased.

Fox/NBC is in your face bias.

I'm not saying either is better. Both are a disgrace

[TeyshaBlue]

After yesterday's vote on Keystone XL, combined with all the other anti-petroleum policies of this administration over the past 3 years, I think it's safe to say Obama and the Democrats own current gas prices...and, unemployment figures.



Keystone has about zip to do with current gas prices.

[Yonivore]

Keystone has about zip to do with current gas prices.
The oil Keystone would convey has about zip to do with the current gas prices. The attitude of an administration that sides with environmentalists at the expense of jobs and energy has a lot to do with current gas prices -- when combined with other events; Iran, gulf moratorium, ANWR, wasteful spending on alternative fuels, and on and on and on.

[RandomGuy]

The oil Keystone would convey has about zip to do with the current gas prices. The attitude of an administration that sides with environmentalists at the expense of jobs and energy has a lot to do with current gas prices -- when combined with other events; Iran, gulf moratorium, ANWR, wasteful spending on alternative fuels, and on and on and on.

Heh, you didn't watch the video in the OP.

Fox "news" talking heads just about rebutted every single one of your assertions.

US oil production has gone back to pre-moratorium levels and is a bit beyond actually.

Iran has fuckall to do with environmentalists (edit) AND has a much greater effect on oil prices than anything the U.S. does.

Further, you have yet to show how increasing U.S. production of oil (10% of world total) by a few % at the margins will make a difference when 90% of world production will be unaffected by "an administration that sides with environmentalists"

Please demonstrate how much production you think has been lost in the last 3 years. Then quantify it in terms of its affect on oil prices, then gas prices.

[CosmicCowboy]

Holy shit!

Checking into PV tax credits and incentives I can damn near do it for free! I can buy a 6900kw grid based system for around $17,000 (plus installation) and immediately get a CPS rebate of around $9000 and a tax credit of $5100.

Crap. I need to do this.

Oops, reading the fine print CPS gets the Fed tax credit. Damn.

OK, a 6900kw system is $8000 plus installation.

Wonder what the payback would be?

[TeyshaBlue]

The oil Keystone would convey has about zip to do with the current gas prices. The attitude of an administration that sides with environmentalists at the expense of jobs and energy has a lot to do with current gas prices -- when combined with other events; Iran, gulf moratorium, ANWR, wasteful spending on alternative fuels, and on and on and on.

Fungible and on and on and on.

[DisAsTerBot]

If you can keep a straight face while you say that one side is more blatant or partisan than the other, there's no point in arguing with you.


qft

[TeyshaBlue]

Holy shit!

Checking into PV tax credits and incentives I can damn near do it for free! I can buy a 6900kw grid based system for around $17,000 (plus installation) and immediately get a CPS rebate of around $9000 and a tax credit of $5100.

Crap. I need to do this.

Oops, reading the fine print CPS gets the Fed tax credit. Damn.

OK, a 6900kw system is $8000 plus installation.

Wonder what the payback would be?

6900kw for 8 bones? Seem's like a no brainer to me. I don't know your consumption figures, but the payback would be visible I'd guess.

[Winehole23]

Did you eat an extra bowl of stupid this morning? I hope it pleases you to call other posters stupid and fucktarded, because otherwise it does you no favor.

[Yonivore]

Fungible and on and on and on.
Well, I suppose you could argue Obama has lowered our reliance on oil because of all the unemployed not using gas to drive to work.

[Winehole23]

not much the president can do to move the needle on employment -- btw, do you think it's the president's job to fix the economy or put people to work?

[George Gervin's Afro]

The oil Keystone would convey has about zip to do with the current gas prices. The attitude of an administration that sides with environmentalists at the expense of jobs and energy has a lot to do with current gas prices -- when combined with other events; Iran, gulf moratorium, ANWR, wasteful spending on alternative fuels, and on and on and on.

calm down yoni..the republican governor asked the state dept to hold off permitting the pipeline to proceed.. by the way the pipeline will be approved and Obama will get all the credit for it while the guys on your side will lose yet another issue that is yanked right out thier playbook..

[George Gervin's Afro]

Heh, you didn't watch the video in the OP.

Fox "news" talking heads just about rebutted every single one of your fucktarded assertions.

US oil production has gone back to pre-moratorium levels and is a bit beyond actually.

Iran has fuckall to do with environmentalists.

Did you eat an extra bowl of stupid this morning?

you shouldn't ahve told him. it would have been funny to hear him completely contradict what his news station reported..:rollin

[George Gervin's Afro]

What's been the difference?

the difference is that now fox news is blaming this on president obam'as policies ....yet when bush was in office fox stated that there was nothing the president could do to lower gas prices.. don't always play stupid.

[CosmicCowboy]

Holy shit!

Checking into PV tax credits and incentives I can damn near do it for free! I can buy a 6900kw grid based system for around $17,000 (plus installation) and immediately get a CPS rebate of around $9000 and a tax credit of $5100.

Crap. I need to do this.

Oops, reading the fine print CPS gets the Fed tax credit. Damn.

OK, a 6900kw system is $8000 plus installation.

Wonder what the payback would be?

This was the system I was looking at...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230717745271#ht_4859wt_1163

Hmmmm....looks like I'm paying CPS $.085 per kwh after the fuel adjustment.

Crap, that can't be right...$586.50 for 6900kwh?

hmmm...I only use 1200 kwh a month...

As I understand a grid based system the utility buys the extra power back...so every hour the sun shines I'm making $500?

shit, that can't be right.

[RandomGuy]

I hope it pleases you to call other posters stupid and fucktarded, because otherwise it does you no favor.

I'm not sure what else to call a tired regurgitation of retreaded, debunked talking points tacked onto partisan hackery.

It seemed a good shorthand to a point by point rebuttal that would be wasted as trying to convince Cosmored we landed on the moon.

That said, once again, you are right. Another battle lost in the war against the lower self.

[coyotes_geek]

Holy shit!

Checking into PV tax credits and incentives I can damn near do it for free! I can buy a 6900kw grid based system for around $17,000 (plus installation) and immediately get a CPS rebate of around $9000 and a tax credit of $5100.

Crap. I need to do this.

Oops, reading the fine print CPS gets the Fed tax credit. Damn.

OK, a 6900kw system is $8000 plus installation.

Wonder what the payback would be?

Wife and I were thinking about doing this back in 2008. We were looking at something like $10k out of pocket with $15k in rebates/tax credits. Payoff using 2008 electricity prices was about 12 years. We didn't do it because the financial crisis came along, thus not a good time to go borrow $10 grand.

[AFBlue]

Fox NEWS IMHO really is fair and balanced. Fox OPINION commentators (O'Reilly, Hannity, etc.) clearly aren't. I don't understand why people refuse to see the difference.

Also IMHO CNN and MSNBC especially blur the lines between news and opinion more than Fox does.

This.

[RandomGuy]

This was the system I was looking at...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230717745271#ht_4859wt_1163

Hmmmm....looks like I'm paying CPS $.085 per kwh after the fuel adjustment.

Crap, that can't be right...$586.50 for 6900kwh?

hmmm...I only use 1200 kwh a month...

As I understand a grid based system the utility buys the extra power back...so every hour the sun shines I'm making $500?

shit, that can't be right.

Sounds about right.

If you do take the time/effort/money, be sure to get the net metering and payments from the power company in a VERY firm contract.

It is VERY important to understand how the power companies structure their rates when determining rates of return and payback periods.

1. Peak charges. You pay more during the summer (duh) when demand is highest
2. Peak demand. Your rate can be affected by your maximum base demand (highest 15 minute demand period).

Both of which are mitigated quite well by PV, since power in Texas is used to offset summer, peak usage for running air conditioners.

[RandomGuy]

The oil Keystone would convey has about zip to do with the current gas prices. The attitude of an administration that sides with environmentalists at the expense of jobs and energy has a lot to do with current gas prices -- when combined with other events; Iran, gulf moratorium, ANWR, wasteful spending on alternative fuels, and on and on and on.

Fungible.

Canadians will move oil somewhere else, global supply will be unchanged, our demand will be unchanged, etc.

Even if it NEVER gets built in the US, they will simply move it within Canada to a different port for export.

You do know that the company proposing this is considering other options, right?

[ChumpDumper]

lol attitude

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn.

Looks like you get a $25,000 rebate from CPS for putting in a 12.5 Kw system. They can't be that much more expensive. I'm calling the link RG gave me to get an estimate.

[Drachen]

This was the system I was looking at...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230717745271#ht_4859wt_1163

Hmmmm....looks like I'm paying CPS $.085 per kwh after the fuel adjustment.

Crap, that can't be right...$586.50 for 6900kwh?

hmmm...I only use 1200 kwh a month...

As I understand a grid based system the utility buys the extra power back...so every hour the sun shines I'm making $500?

shit, that can't be right.


I had a consultation a few years ago and they said that CPS doesn't buy back your electricity, rather, they give you credit for electricity (i.e. if you produce an extra 80 kwh in July and use an extra 80 kwh in december, then it is a wash).

[Drachen]

Damn.

Looks like you get a $25,000 rebate from CPS for putting in a 12.5 Kw system. They can't be that much more expensive. I'm calling the link RG gave me to get an estimate.

remember, you have to go through CPSs contractors to get a rebate (so you cant buy the PV cells yourself).

[CosmicCowboy]

remember, you have to go through CPSs contractors to get a rebate (so you cant buy the PV cells yourself).

Yep, I got that. I'm calling one.

[Drachen]

Yep, I got that. I'm calling one.

Cool, let us know. I would be interested again. The wife may be getting a pretty hefty raise in the next two weeks (making her the sugar mama) and it may become doable for us. Especially since (by looking at CPSs site) it looks like you are indeed eligible for the 30% tax credit.

[boutons_deux]

"shit, that can't be right."

I'm looking at solar now.

CPS credits your account $0.02 per Kwh fed into the grid, while charging $0.11/Kwh, which the solar supplier tells will probably soon be increased to the TX avg of $0.13/Kwh.

TX doesn't really have feed-in tariffs like 4 or 5 states, and Germany does.

Time-of-day metering is also coming to CPS, and to TX. (pay more in peak hours, less in off-peak hours).

[Halberto]

After yesterday's vote on Keystone XL, combined with all the other anti-petroleum policies of this administration over the past 3 years, I think it's safe to say Obama and the Democrats own current gas prices...and, unemployment figures.


As someone who works in the petroleum industry and who would benefit from the Keystone pipeline..... Shut your stupid ignorant mouth.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can admit that FOX pimps for the Republican side. Can you admit that all the others pimp for the Dem side? I'm willing to bet you can't. Which makes you as bad as them.

No, i will not admit that every news outlet in the country not owned by Rupert Murdoch does that. Thats just stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fox NEWS IMHO really is fair and balanced. Fox OPINION commentators (O'Reilly, Hannity, etc.) clearly aren't. I don't understand why people refuse to see the difference.

Also IMHO CNN and MSNBC especially blur the lines between news and opinion more than Fox does.

CNN and MSNBC are specious too. I have no doubt that you earnestly believe this but I am sure you have seen the collage of the hundreds of Fox News cast banners. All that is a collage on tickers that did not match the newscast usually in a very exaggerative politically biased manner.

That in and of itself calls your statement into question.

[TeyshaBlue]

"shit, that can't be right."

I'm looking at solar now.

CPS credits your account $0.02 per Kwh fed into the grid, while charging $0.11/Kwh, which the solar supplier tells will probably soon be increased to the TX avg of $0.13/Kwh.

TX doesn't really have feed-in tariffs like 4 or 5 states, and Germany does.

Time-of-day metering is also coming to CPS, and to TX. (pay more in peak hours, less in off-peak hours).

What does your ROI look like in terms of months/years?

[CosmicCowboy]

What does your ROI look like in terms of months/years?

I'm certainly hoping that the cost has really dropped dramatically.

Found a San Antonio specific site...480 residential projects completed to date at an average cost of $5.87 a watt. That changes things if the cost hasn't come down significantly...a 12,500 watt installation at that price would be $73,000. eek! So that cost wold result in a net cost of $33,600 after the rebate and the tax credit...not nearly as good of a return...using the 5.4 sun/hour figure from a chart I found it would generate an annual savings of $2094...or a return of 6.23%...hmmmm

http://www.solarsanantonio.org/

[boutons_deux]

7 years pay off, but I'm a light consumer of electricity, esp no a/c during the day when I'm at work.

If I sold the house to people who stayed there all day (retired couple), then the payback would be much faster. In CA, houses with solar sell for more than houses w/o.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, I'm definitely doing this remodeling to add value and also enjoy it till I sell...Selling this house is part of my long term retirement plan...If I add another 1000 sf and go solar I'm pretty sure I could ask $700,000 on a quick sale with the property it's on and the other stuff (barn/arena).

Even at a 6% return it still makes sense to do it with interest rates at 4%.

[TeyshaBlue]

7 years pay off, but I'm a light consumer of electricity, esp no a/c during the day when I'm at work.

If I sold the house to people who stayed there all day (retired couple), then the payback would be much faster. In CA, houses with solar sell for more than houses w/o.

Still, that's a pretty good payoff, bd. Good move. And yeah, I'd think that would add considerably to the resale of the property even outside of CA.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yeah, I'm definitely doing this remodeling to add value and also enjoy it till I sell...Selling this house is part of my long term retirement plan...If I add another 1000 sf and go solar I'm pretty sure I could ask $700,000 on a quick sale with the property it's on and the other stuff (barn/arena).

Even at a 6% return it still makes sense to do it with interest rates at 4%.

Hells yeah. You're leveraging at a +2pts!

My bills are incredible. I might have to look into this.

[clambake]

you guys are wimps. i want my house to run directly off crude.

[spursncowboys]

What would be even funnier would be putting up the clips of the Fox "news" talking heads side by side with their current parroting of GOP talking points.

That goes both ways. I remember when all the MSM said that bush was creating a recession because unemployment was at 5%. Now we are out of one if we get to 8%

[CosmicCowboy]

Hmmm....talked to a contractor. They are still trying to stick at around $5 a watt. Said theres a bill in congress to put a tariff on Chineses solar panels that looks like it will pass and drive the cost right back up. I'll have to check that out.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/itc-finds-china-imports-may-harm-us-solar-firms-2011-12-02

The U.S. International Trade Commission voted Friday to continue investigating U.S. solar firms' allegations of dumping by Chinese solar-panel makers, saying there were indications of injury or a threat of injury to U.S. industry.

The U.S. unit of SolarWorld AG and six other U.S. firms have accused Chinese suppliers of solar panels and solar cells made from crystalline silicon of receiving unfair government subsidies and selling their products in the U.S. at prices below the cost of production in an effort to dominate the U.S. market.

In a 6-0 vote, the commission agreed that the matter needed further investigation.

Friday's decision clears the way for the U.S. Department of Commerce, which is also investigating the accusations, to continue its probe, said ITC spokeswoman Peg O'Laughlin.

If the Commerce Department concludes that Chinese solar-panel makers dumped their products and/or received unfair subsidies, then the ITC would continue the final phase of its investigation into whether U.S. crystalline silicon solar-panel makers were injured or are threatened with injury, O'Laughlin said.

If the Commerce Department finds, in a parallel investigation, that the manufacturers dumped products or obtained unfair government subsidies, the agency could impose antidumping or countervailing tariffs on such products.

The case has raised the hackles of both Chinese solar-panel manufacturers and the Chinese government, and divided the U.S. solar-power market at a time when solar product manufacturers have been struggling against plunging prices, soft demand in Europe and an oversupply of solar panels, primarily from China.

SolarWorld said the ITC's ruling on Friday showed that its complaint has merit.

"The ITC's unanimous ruling underscores what American solar manufacturers have argued for months: Without any production cost advantage, dumping by Chinese solar manufacturers and massive subsidies by the Chinese government are enabling Chinese producers to drive out U.S. competition," said Gordon Brinser, president of SolarWorld's U.S. unit, in a statement.

Last week, China's Ministry of Commerce said it would investigate U.S. subsidies and policies supportive of the nation's renewable energy industry, in a tit-for-tat response to the U.S. investigation of alleged dumping by Chinese solar-panel makers.

Earlier this week, executives of the largest Chinese solar-panel makers, including Suntech Power Holdings Co. Ltd. (STP, K3ND.SG), Yingli Green Energy Holding Co. Ltd. YGE +1.30% and Trina Solar Ltd. (TSL, K3KD.SG) complained that the U.S. investigations were unwarranted and would hurt American jobs.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, lets make sure we keep the cost up there where it isn't feasible without massive subsidies.

[CosmicCowboy]

With this logic a Motorola flat screen TV would still cost $20,000 and we would give tax credits so people would buy them.

[RandomGuy]

What does your ROI look like in terms of months/years?

ROI is not measured in time. ROC?

I would point out though, the returns are essentially indexed to energy inflation for PV.

NPV of investments tend to be more strongly influenced by cash flows closer to present.

The interesting characteristic about PV as an investment is that the returns are avoided costs, which go UP with inflation.

That means that the cash flows (avoided expenses) in the future are the same, if not greater than the cash flows at the beginning.