Grades: Spurs vs. Clippers - Mar. 9

[timvp]

With Tony Parker sidelined due to a thigh injury, the Spurs hosted the Clippers on Friday night in the AT&T Center. Throughout the game, the Spurs were attempting to overcome their horrendous defensive play. However, that proved to be impossible as Los Angeles blitzkrieged San Antonio and left town with a 120-108 victory.

The game was close in the first half until the Clippers went on a run in the middle of the second quarter to build a 13-point lead. It took a while but the Spurs eventually climbed all the way back into the game after a 9-0 in the third quarter that was capped off by a Danny Green three-pointer.

The end of the third and the beginning of the fourth featured runs both ways. Back-to-back three-pointers by Manu Ginobili tied it at 103-103 with 5:20 remaining. Unfortunately, Mo Williams responded with back-to-back threes of his own. At that point, San Antonio's offense finally couldn't keep up with its porous defense and the game was over.

The story of this game was the astonishingly poor defense by the Spurs. While the Clippers deserve credit for executing well, the home team was simply pathetic on that end of the court on an alarmingly high number of possessions. If the Spurs are going to amount to anything, they are going to have to improve by leaps and bounds defensively. As it stands, they are one of the worst teams in the league at an aspect of the sport which used to be the franchise's calling card.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/10p2cdy.jpg

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2dkb87n.jpg

Tim Duncan C+
In this first half, Tim Duncan was very effective. Offensively, he was physical down low and had great touch on his shot. His hands were great and he seemed primed to carry the team in the second half. But then his horrid free throw shooting seemed to fluster him and he lost focus. I don't particularly mind the missed free throws but Duncan can't let it effect his overall effort and sharpness. Defensively, he was good at defending his man and played a key role in keeping Blake Griffin in check but he was almost of no help in pick-and-roll defense. And with Chris Paul running the show, the fellow Demon Deacon made sure to exploit that … over and over again.

Manu Ginobili C+
Offensively, I thought Manu Ginobili was great. Scoring 22 points on only ten shots is obviously a fantastic rate and his passing was tremendous. The only thing that slowed him down was the fact that he's not totally in shape yet. And even though he had four turnovers, they were all in the first half and didn't play a role in the Spurs losing the game. That said, this might have been Ginobili's worst defensive game of his career. I realize he was conserving his limited energy for the offensive end -- but wow. Except for rare instances, he sagged totally off of his man while offering little to no help anywhere on the court. When his man caught the ball, Ginobili was almost never in position to challenge the shot. It's no accident that the Clippers scored 80 points in the 27:56 Ginobili was on the court.

Tony Parker Inc.
Tony Parker missed the game with either a thigh contusion, a thigh strain or a hyperextended knee, depending on who you want to believe. While it's obvious that Parker has been an asset on the offensive end this season, he's actually been a bigger difference-maker on defense. When he's been on the court this season, the Spurs allow 91.1 points per 48 minutes. When Parker has been on the bench, the Spurs have allowed 102.7 points per 48 minutes. I'm not sure what the reason is for the huge disparity but let's hope San Antonio's All-Star point guard can return soon.

Gary Neal B-
First of all, Gary Neal's defense was bad -- but we've come to expect that this season. He's not tall, long or athletic, so he has a hard time challenging shots or staying in front of anyone. When Neal attempted to defend Paul tonight, it was comically bad. Even a player like Randy Foye was a challenge for Neal on this night. Offensively, with Parker out and TJ Ford also sidelined, Neal started the game at point guard. Though his PG skills are rudimentary, to put it nicely, he actually did a good enough job. He got to the free throw line, made a decent amount of quality passes and didn't turn the ball over. More and more, Neal is proving capable of running the point when needed.

Danny Green C
On offense, it was good to see Danny Green bounce back with more points tonight than he had in the last three games combined. His outside stroke looked smooth and his shot selection was good. Although, inside the three-point arc continues to be an adventure for Green when he looks to score. Defensively, he was great against CP3 … for the first three minutes of the game. From then on, it went down hill in a hurry. By the end of the game, Paul was just toying with Green. It became just sad to watch after a while.

Richard Jefferson C
I have to admit that I enjoyed watching Richard Jefferson drive the ball to the basket a handful of times for perhaps the first game all season. It's good to see he's still physically capable of doing so. And while four free throw attempts doesn't sound notable, it's the most he's had in a game since Jan. 18 against the Magic. Other than that, Jefferson just had another generic RJ game. He might have been even more listless on defense than usual.

DeJuan Blair A-
On this night, Spurs fans can't blame DeJuan Blair. His defense against Griffin was solid; he stayed in front of him, bodied up and didn't let the Clippers superstar get comfortable. Offensively, Blair had three great passes and made his final three field goal attempts. If anything, Blair deserved more minutes tonight.

Matt Bonner C-
Friday night was an odd evening for Matt Bonner. Though he was effective off the dribble and made a few nice passes, his three-point touch failed him. Other than a few glaring exceptions, his post defense was decent and he wasn't a liability around the basket … but he was poor against pick-and-roll sets and in terms of switching to the open man. It added up to a negative night at the office for Bonner. To complete his underwhelming performance, Bonner missed his final three field goal attempts -- each of which would have been big shots in the fourth quarter.

Kawhi Leonard C+
Earlier in the season, Kawhi Leonard could be counted on to bring a presence defensively but was a liability on the offensive end. Today, it's the other way around. He scored in double-digits for the fourth straight game. Over his last six games, he has 69 points in 130 minutes -- for an extremely impressive rate of 25.5 points per 48 minutes. He's also averaging 12.6 rebounds per 48 minutes over that time frame. That said, as was the case again against the Clippers, Leonard's defense has really suffered. He's decent at challenging jumpers but he isn't keeping anyone in front of him and his help defense is non-existent.

Tiago Splitter C+
Tiago Splitter turned back the clock on the offensive end … and that's not a good thing. Like he was doing earlier in the year, he was using too many fakes and jukes instead of simply finishing at the rim. He also passed the ball when he had wide open shots in the paint. He was on a roll on offense prior to his calf injury but that version of Splitter is missing in action right now. Defensively, though, Splitter was one of the few non-liabilities. He switched off onto Paul and did wonderful work a couple times. Splitter also continues to protect the rim well.

James Anderson Inc.
James Anderson had a slick layup but that was about it. Oh, and he missed yet another three-pointer.

Pop C+
On one hand, Pop should be commended for doing enough to keep the Spurs in the game against one of the better teams in the West without the team's All-Star player. But his utter lack of imagination on the defensive end was baffling. It was painfully obvious that Green on Paul wasn't working but Pop stubbornly stuck to his guns. Pop of the past would have kept changing things up until he found something that was working on the defensive end. Tonight, he seemed resigned to the fact that the Spurs were literally defenseless.

[Spurs da champs]

You're too generous to Pop with a C man, the dude deserves an F he's starting to act like Phil Jackson, with letting things get out of control, then call a timeout when it's too late, & I'm still puzzled at why he didn't have Leonard on Paul.

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the writeup Tim. :tu

[Robz4000]

Good write-up. TP plays this game Spurs win, without him they lost. Doesn't help they had no real PG to run the offense, which led to way to many dumb turnovers. No excuse for the D, but despite that they would've won if even Ford could play imo.

[William Hung]

Cory Joseph warmed the bench, then shot a 3 pointer, then went right back to
the bench. :lol

I think Pop deserves a higher grade for keeping this game competitive without
a point guard.

[therealtruth]

You're too generous to Pop with a C man, the dude deserves an F he's starting to act like Phil Jackson, with letting things get out of control, then call a timeout when it's too late, & I'm still puzzled at why he didn't have Leonard on Paul.

Not calling timeouts hurt Phil Jackson how?

[jason1301]

Good work as always Tim, thanks for the write up!

I actually liked Pop's decision to stay with Green on CP3. There is a good chance we 'll have to play them in the second round, and I am just saying, what if Green finds a way to limit CP3? His D is solid, and is long and athletic. That could be huge. It's not like we have a reputation of developing young players :)


:lobt2:

[Hoops Czar]

When is Pop gonna learn that Green is not a starter in this league.

[jjktkk]

When is Pop gonna learn that Green is not a starter in this league.

Green was just a spot start, due to injuries. Doesn't seem that Pop wants to put Ginobili back in the starting lineup just yet.

[ElNono]

First time (IIRC) I'm going to disagree with the grades this season...

Tim and Manu at the very least deserve a B

Sure, Tim missed his freethrows, but he got himself to the line making the right moves. A good indicator is that the Clippers registered zero blocked shots when they average 3+/game combined between Griffin and Jordan. Defensively, I think he did what he was supposed to do. It's easy to say go trap or cover CP3, but then he would be lobbing passes to DJ or Griffin. He didn't rebound much, but the Clippers were not missing much to begin with, so I'm not sure there were that many boards to be had.

As far as Manu's grade, if you pre-condition your grade for Neal because you already know he's a liability, you have to take into consideration that Manu is still out of shape (something you pointed out). I thought he actually tried to be a bit more active at the end (he challenged that second 3 that Mo made anyways) and went for a couple of steals at the end (which he didn't get) that Spurs needed to have a chance.

The Clippers actually started their first run when both of these guys sat down and we looked like a JV team. That's just how good they were playing.

Green and Bonner were really, really bad defensively

Green found his 3 point stroke, and he should get credit for that. But he was put on CP3 because he's allegedly a hard nosed defensive guy, and he got schooled BAD tonight. And I mean really, really bad. He ended up playing almost twice the amount of minutes that Leonard played, and (I have to review the tape) I don't think Leonard even got a chance to guard CP3. The rationale goes that Green goes in because he brings more offense, but Leonard has been carving his offensive niche too lately.

When it comes to Matt, missing the 3 pointers can happen, but he was completely overwhelmed on defense. Now, if you just look at the boxscore, you'll see 6 boards (tied with Leonard for most on the night), but the reality is that Matt had 3 board through the first 3 quarters and collected the last 3 in a 3 minute span at the start of the 4th. He actually got beat repeatedly for boards by the guy he was guarding (Reggie Evans, who ended up collecting a game high 13). On top of that, he provided extremely poor help defense even though leaving alone the guy he was guarding was probably actually desirable, and when he ended up helping, he ended up in pathetic plays like having all the time in the world to wrap Griffin and still letting him put up a shot and an and1. Embarrassing stuff.

I thought both of these guys were on the D realm. D+ and D- is what I would've probably used.

Pop

I don't necessarily disagree with the grade, but I'll add some thoughts about him.
I thought that he just gave up on a defensive plan tonight. Hearing the half-time comments from the coaches, along the lines of needing to cut down on the turnovers and getting sharper on offense (despite the team shooting 70+% in the 1st quarter and the alarming bad defense), was just an admission that the gameplan was win with offense, screw the defense.
I also thought he waited way too long to bring Duncan back in the 4th quarter. Manu tied the game with 5 mins to go, and Tim was still on the bench. Only after Mo Williams drained his back to back 3s he was brought in with 4 mins to go. Obviously, Tim wouldn't have defended the 3s any better, but it's easier to patrol the perimeter when you know you have a guy like Tim backing you up in the paint.

JMO

[ElNono]

Oh, and thanks for the writeup :tu

[timvp]

I actually liked Pop's decision to stay with Green on CP3. There is a good chance we 'll have to play them in the second round, and I am just saying, what if Green finds a way to limit CP3? His D is solid, and is long and athletic. That could be huge. It's not like we have a reputation of developing young players :)


In 2008, the Spurs almost lost to the Hornets in the playoffs because Pop tried to have Bowen defend CP3. It wasn't until he switched Parker onto CP3 and Bowen onto Stojakovic did the Spurs come back to win the series.

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

[Sean Cagney]

In 2008, the Spurs almost lost to the Hornets in the playoffs because Pop tried to have Bowen defend CP3. It wasn't until he switched Parker onto CP3 and Bowen onto Stojakovic did the Spurs come back to win the series.

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

I would say that is a safe bet lol! Bowen could in his prime guard Nash and Billups etc. though (Bron too), but I guess CP3 in 08 was too spry for him and that young while Bowen was nearly done. I agree though Green can't guard him, so we need Tony to beat LAC, which is not shocking nor surprising, good post TIMVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[therealtruth]

In 2008, the Spurs almost lost to the Hornets in the playoffs because Pop tried to have Bowen defend CP3. It wasn't until he switched Parker onto CP3 and Bowen onto Stojakovic did the Spurs come back to win the series.

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

I'm curious to how Bowen's defense on Nash and CP3 compares. I know Bowen has always given Nash fits. CP3 is similar to Nash though more athletic.

[therealtruth]

Green was just a spot start, due to injuries. Doesn't seem that Pop wants to put Ginobili back in the starting lineup just yet.

I think he has to and maybe that will accelerate Ginobili's development.

[Hoops Czar]

Green was just a spot start, due to injuries. Doesn't seem that Pop wants to put Ginobili back in the starting lineup just yet.

I thought Green was interchangeable with Leonard? The sight of seeing Green on the court late in the 4th quarter is making me nauseous.

[TDMVPDPOY]

fck pop

as for green his a streaky player man with alot of intensity just like a rookie ginoboli...yet how does he continue to get more minutes and gets to close out games, while the better defender KL is stuck on the bench is beyond me.....

wtf is pop saving KL for? i hate this rookie bullshit pop pulls with young players who looks ready to come in and develop/contribute straight away, but his playing that safe card for no reason by limiting his minutes behind scrubs ahead of him in the rotation. If KL gets burned who cares, at leasts his getting the experience and will improve from that, but no...pop only puts him in when his need and pulls him out when his not needed....

[100%duncan]

In 2008, the Spurs almost lost to the Hornets in the playoffs because Pop tried to have Bowen defend CP3. It wasn't until he switched Parker onto CP3 and Bowen onto Stojakovic did the Spurs come back to win the series.

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

I think TP can handle Paul again, given a chance in the playoffs, but maybe this time foul calls will get into TP and that's gonna be a problem

[mosdef17]

Nothing would have worked against CP3 tonight, don't blame Danny Green or Pop. Impossible to guard someone like Paul when ALL the shooters are hitting everything.

[IknowU]

Yep they kept on shooting and never missed.


You cant blame anyone tbh. You can blame Bonner for bricking about 5 wide open threes that could gotten us back into the game.

[TJastal]

So in typical Pop fashion, another wasted game basically. And I'm not even talking about the loss per say. This game is a perfect preview of what's going to happen in playoffs if Pop continues to do nothing but suck his thumb in the fetal position. Teams will exploit the weak interior repeatedly with no Splitter-Duncan combination, and abuse Dick & Boner. I'll refrain from mentioning Blair this one game but it's not much of a stretch to imagine Griffin abusing Blair in a 7 game series, too.

Timvp, what I don't understand is why a guy who was playing so well earlier in the year defensively (Leonard) was ushered to the bench while a guy like Jefferson who does nothing on either end over 2+ seasons now continues to hold his spot in the starting lineup.... Is it any wonder why Leonard's defense continues to regress while he continues to look for his offense only? Obviously this is what Pop respects. It's all been all brought about by Pop's "coaching". Which leads me to once again berate that fateful blazers' "forfeit" game.

Tell me I wasn't right on the mark about that game... it has had a very negative cumulative effect, especially on our younger players. Since then a number of players have seemingly picked up bad habits, lazy defense, and poor execution.

[Spurs Brazil]

@spurs “Chris Paul’s obviously a great player and I thought Danny (Green) worked really hard on him and did a wonderful job.” Coach Pop

:lol:rollin:lol:rollin:lol


:(:(

[bklynspursfan]

I dont get why Tim played 29 minutes. He had it going in the 1st. He sat more than half the 2nd quarter. They're off the next 2 days. I get the whole big picture crap, but come on. He was playing so well, why not give him 34-36 mins? NO reason why he had 12 points in the 1st and end up with only 17. He was attacking and looked very spry.

Maybe then we're not relying on Matt Bonner to hit 3's to win the game. Although he had 3 open looks. HIm and Green were awful tonight.

[TJastal]

I dont get why Tim played 29 minutes. He had it going in the 1st. He sat more than half the 2nd quarter. They're off the next 2 days. I get the whole big picture crap, but come on. He was playing so well, why not give him 34-36 mins? NO reason why he had 12 points in the 1st and end up with only 17. He was attacking and looked very spry.

Maybe then we're not relying on Matt Bonner to hit 3's to win the game. Although he had 3 open looks. HIm and Green were awful tonight.

+1

Pop should be trying to secure all the wins he can now while he has the luxury of a favorable schedule to give the team a nice cushion heading into final stanza of games.

As per usual, when the team was playing winning basketball and opposing coaches we're proclaiming him the best coach in nba history that was his cue to start tinkering with everything.

But don't fret I'm sure we'll see alot more Duncan as the losses start to pile up and the spurs start dropping in the standings.

[Old School 44]

Yes, the defense wasn't the best, but when you don't have your best player Parker in the rotation, it just throws everything off. Throw in Duncan's bad night at the line, Bonner missing some open threes, and IMO the biggest thing, Mo Williams shooting lights out, it's amazing the Spurs were even this close.

It happens in the NBA. As a matter of fact, it happened last night to OKC against a team with an even bigger disparity in talent, the Cavs. On to the next game.

[ElNono]

In 2008, the Spurs almost lost to the Hornets in the playoffs because Pop tried to have Bowen defend CP3. It wasn't until he switched Parker onto CP3 and Bowen onto Stojakovic did the Spurs come back to win the series.

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

You're only telling half the story... The problem was that both CP3 and Peja were on fire. Spurs never really shut CP3 down that series, but Bowen ended up shutting down Peja and his 3 pointers which was pivotal in the series.

There's no doubt, however, that Tony makes Chris work more than any other Spur....

[Bruno]

While it's obvious that Parker has been an asset on the offensive end this season, he's actually been a bigger difference-maker on defense. When he's been on the court this season, the Spurs allow 91.1 points per 48 minutes. When Parker has been on the bench, the Spurs have allowed 102.7 points per 48 minutes. I'm not sure what the reason is for the huge disparity but let's hope San Antonio's All-Star point guard can return soon.

A reason is garbage time. With Parker playing a lot of minutes, a significant part of the few minutes where he isn't on the court is garbage time. Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time.

Parker on the court: 1270 minutes, 2411 points allowed => 91.1 pts/48min
Parker off the court, garbage time: 163 minutes, 388 points allowed => 114.3 pts/48min
Parker off the court, meaningful time: 410 minutes, 823 points allowed => 96.4 pts/48min

Spurs are doing worse defensively when Parker is off he court but not by that much.

PS1: I haven't included the Clippers game because it was far from a traditional game where the backup PG has to play a relatively short stint against the other team backup PG.
PS2: I've decided the game is in garbage time when the big three is on the bench and never return playing.
PS3: The Mavs game that the bench almost won isn't included in garbage time stat.
PS4: The game thrown away at Portland is in the garbage time category. Even without it, Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time with 104.8 points allowed by 48 minutes.

[TMTTRIO]

Manu's conditioning still looks like it needs a lot of work and he seemed to pull something again during a drive during the lane. He came back limping and trying to walk it off along with stretching during time outs. Fortunately he was still able to play. At this point I'll be happy if he can survive the rest of this season. We really missed Tony tonight. Hopefully he gets well soon. We need our MVP back quickly.

[TJastal]

Manu's conditioning still looks like it needs a lot of work and he seemed to pull something again during a drive during the lane. He came back limping and trying to walk it off along with stretching during time outs. Fortunately he was still able to play. At this point I'll be happy if he can survive the rest of this season. We really missed Tony tonight. Hopefully he gets well soon. We need our MVP back quickly.

Best bet at this point is to just let him settle back into his old 6th man role off the bench. By the time he works all out all the "kinks" it'll be too late to change up the lineup and settled rotations.

[quentin_compson]

Strange game. Hadn't it been for some crucial miscues on the offensive end in the deciding moments in the fourth quarter, the Spurs might have won the game - despite being atrociously bad on perimeter defense.

[wildbill2u]

When there are criticisms for defensive breakdowns I usually look for points in the paint, because its usually a case where a player gets beat and his man goes past him for a layup or a dish to a big under the basket for an easy score.

However, in this game the Spurs outscored the Clippers by 44-27 in the paint. Oho, sez I, let's see what happened and the stats in the box score tell the tale.

1. The Clippers played a PF, a SF and three PGs over THIRTY Minutes apiece. And two SF got 28 minutes. Center got 5. It was a SMall Ball night. And where did the points come from that really beat us? Well, Paul had his 36 including 9-9 FTs which shows he was beating his man and he shot 3-6 on 3s. He was big.

Foye, got only 15 but shot 3-7 on threes. Not so bad since he killed us last game.

So who was the culprit? Reserve PG guard Mo Williams who shot 12-19 for 33 pts but here's the killer stat: 7 for 9 in 3pt shots. That's 21 of his total of 33 points. The guy was obviously in a zone that helped them shoot over 50% in 3pts.

I followed the game on the game blog for a while and remember seeing comments like, "They're making crazy tough shots".

You know there are some games where the other team just shoots the ball so well that no matter what you do they light up the scoreboard. They shot over 51% on regular FG and almost 52% on 3s.

I suspect with the lack of foot speed we had in our smalls such as Kwahi, Ginobilli and Neal, Pop had them laying off a little bit and dared them to hit their 3s. They did. If they wind up shooting a normal team average of 30%-35% instead of 52% we win.

The Clippers coach matched his players to our weaknesses in this game and they won. Every game is different and unique if you have injuries and different matchups on the court. I can't get too excited about a 'year long defensive breakdown' based on the peculiar abnormal stats of this game.

[jag]

A reason is garbage time. With Parker playing a lot of minutes, a significant part of the few minutes where he isn't on the court is garbage time. Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time.

Parker on the court: 1270 minutes, 2411 points allowed => 91.1 pts/48min
Parker off the court, garbage time: 163 minutes, 388 points allowed => 114.3 pts/48min
Parker off the court, meaningful time: 410 minutes, 823 points allowed => 96.4 pts/48min

Spurs are doing worse defensively when Parker is off he court but not by that much.

PS1: I haven't included the Clippers game because it was far from a traditional game where the backup PG has to play a relatively short stint against the other team backup PG.
PS2: I've decided the game is in garbage time when the big three is on the bench and never return playing.
PS3: The Mavs game that the bench almost won isn't included in garbage time stat.
PS4: The game thrown away at Portland is in the garbage time category. Even without it, Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time with 104.8 points allowed by 48 minutes.

Bruno is such an animal with the stats. Good stuff

[DMC]

Chris Paul found his spot in the paint and after he would get his defender on his back, just moved up there and put the shot up. Tony does the same thing but at a much quicker pace. We could have stopped that, but we had to contend with other issues that were killing us at the same time.

I thought what did it for us was Caron Butler's production in the 1st. He was allowed wide open looks from his spot over and over.

Basically though, if the entire team is hitting on all cylinders as they were, it's going to be hard to not be blown out. We at least managed to compete.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me I wasn't right on the mark about that game... it has had a very negative cumulative effect, especially on our younger players. Since then a number of players have seemingly picked up bad habits, lazy defense, and poor execution.You aren't right on the mark.

You're delusional and imagine the approval of others.

[timvp]

Sure, Tim missed his freethrows, but he got himself to the line making the right moves.I didn't mind the missed free throws but Duncan let the misses effect the way he played. It reminded me of Game 4 against the Suns in 2007, tbh.


As far as Manu's grade, if you pre-condition your grade for Neal because you already know he's a liability, you have to take into consideration that Manu is still out of shape (something you pointed out).Ginobili is the second or third best defender on the team, though. Even since his return, he has been playing pretty good defense -- most notably in my mind vs. Arron Afflalo. I've pointed out Ginobili's better than expected defense so it wouldn't be fair to look past him playing the worst defense on the team.


I thought he actually tried to be a bit more active at the end (he challenged that second 3 that Mo made anyways) and went for a couple of steals at the end (which he didn't get) that Spurs needed to have a chance.Tbh, if you are talking about Mo Williams' seventh three-pointer, that was some of Ginobili's worst defense of the night. He sagged into no-man's land and then didn't recover against a shooter that was so much on fire and had just hit a three? Unacceptable.

The steal attempts at the end were nice but it was too little, too late.

[TJastal]

You aren't right on the mark.

You're delusional and imagine the approval of others.

I've yet to hear a better explanation of why the spurs suddenly went from a 11 game winning streak to dropping 4 of the next 7, starting with that loss to the blazers.

Or perhaps I am imagining that too. :lol

[timvp]

I dont get why Tim played 29 minutes. He had it going in the 1st. He sat more than half the 2nd quarter. They're off the next 2 days. I get the whole big picture crap, but come on. He was playing so well, why not give him 34-36 mins? NO reason why he had 12 points in the 1st and end up with only 17. He was attacking and looked very spry.

Yeah, it was definitely a bit strange for Pop to go away from Duncan in this game. He's played him some big minutes before this season and this seemed like a good time to play him more .. especially since the Spurs have two days off. On top of that, Pop hardly called any plays for Duncan even though the high-low sets were working so well in the first half.

Strange usage of Duncan for sure.

[timvp]

Yep they kept on shooting and never missed.


You cant blame anyone tbh.

Pop with an account? Welcome to ST :toast

[timvp]

Manu's conditioning still looks like it needs a lot of work and he seemed to pull something again during a drive during the lane. He came back limping and trying to walk it off along with stretching during time outs. Fortunately he was still able to play.

Yeah, Manu twisted his ankle during one of his first drives to the basket. It didn't seem to hurt him offensively but perhaps it could have played a role why he was so immobile on defense.

[timvp]

A reason is garbage time. With Parker playing a lot of minutes, a significant part of the few minutes where he isn't on the court is garbage time. Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time.

Parker on the court: 1270 minutes, 2411 points allowed => 91.1 pts/48min
Parker off the court, garbage time: 163 minutes, 388 points allowed => 114.3 pts/48min
Parker off the court, meaningful time: 410 minutes, 823 points allowed => 96.4 pts/48min

Spurs are doing worse defensively when Parker is off he court but not by that much.

PS1: I haven't included the Clippers game because it was far from a traditional game where the backup PG has to play a relatively short stint against the other team backup PG.
PS2: I've decided the game is in garbage time when the big three is on the bench and never return playing.
PS3: The Mavs game that the bench almost won isn't included in garbage time stat.
PS4: The game thrown away at Portland is in the garbage time category. Even without it, Spurs are doing poorly defensively in garbage time with 104.8 points allowed by 48 minutes.
Good stat-work :tu

How many of those 410 minutes had Cory Joseph on the court? With as bad as CJ is, you might as well call those minutes garbage minutes as well.

After taking out those minutes as well, I might have to apologize for saying Parker is a difference-maker on defense, tbh.

[Blake]

I also thought he waited way too long to bring Duncan back in the 4th quarter. Manu tied the game with 5 mins to go, and Tim was still on the bench. Only after Mo Williams drained his back to back 3s he was brought in with 4 mins to go.

^

[Paranoid Pop]

Good stat-work :tu

How many of those 410 minutes had Cory Joseph on the court? With as bad as CJ is, you might as well call those minutes garbage minutes as well.

After taking out those minutes as well, I might have to apologize for saying Parker is a difference-maker on defense, tbh.

Lol he refuses to acknowledge that the two biggest blowouts of the season fueled by the opposing PGs have something to do with Parker defensive impact, I don't see how that prove anything.

[Bruno]

How many of those 410 minutes had Cory Joseph on the court? With as bad as CJ is, you might as well call those minutes garbage minutes as well.


I don't know but it shouldn't be a lot of minutes. I'm not that interested in doing the stat work for that because I don't really consider Joseph as a worst defender than Neal or Ford.

[Bruno]

Lol he refuses to acknowledge that the two biggest blowouts of the season fueled by the opposing PGs have something to do with Parker defensive impact, I don't see how that prove anything.

Parker is Spurs best defensive PG by far.

timvp stat showed that Spurs were horrible defensively when Parker wasn't on the court. The point of my stat was that, in a normal situation, that is to say outside garbage time and games without Parker, Spurs were bad but not horrible defensively without Parker.

[DMC]

So Timvp grades players on individual curves as opposed to one overall curve (team play).

I would grade Manu higher. Coming off an extended down period where he was only back a few games before going out again, he's brought energy that many other players would not, and he certainly has the excuse to be sloppy and tired but he's full speed all the time.

I couldn't grade him below a B. If shots made vs shots missed doesn't mean anything, then we should only look at his effort given his ability. Right now his ability isn't as high as it was at the beginning of the season, but he finds ways to contribute just the same, unlike RJ who seems to have gotten a similar grade.

I would never have RJ above a C even on his best night. Grading him on a curve is bailing him out. He should be playing as well as anyone, he's not been injured and sees a lot of minutes. He's young enough and has the ability to affect the game if he wasn't such a sorry piece of overpaid shit.

Also, even though I understand the timeliness, I wouldn't grade them on the same night they play because win/loss emotions come into play and that has to affect the grading.

[kaji157]

It´s time Spurstalk members, let´s takes Bonner matter into our hands.
We have to found this guy and tell him to blow his knees.
http://archivo.laprensa.com.ni/archivo/2009/mayo/31/noticias/nacionales/fotos/773567.jpg

[ElNono]

I didn't mind the missed free throws but Duncan let the misses effect the way he played. It reminded me of Game 4 against the Suns in 2007, tbh.

You probably mean affect, but in which way? I thought he got what he wanted out there. He got himself to the line and helped their bigs be non-factors. I mean, I understand he's out top defender, but we got murdered pretty much from the perimeter.


Ginobili is the second or third best defender on the team, though. Even since his return, he has been playing pretty good defense -- most notably in my mind vs. Arron Afflalo. I've pointed out Ginobili's better than expected defense so it wouldn't be fair to look past him playing the worst defense on the team.

He might be the second or third best defender when he's in shape. Against Denver, he only had to pretty much play one side of the court only (took a grand total of 5 shots).


Tbh, if you are talking about Mo Williams' seventh three-pointer, that was some of Ginobili's worst defense of the night. He sagged into no-man's land and then didn't recover against a shooter that was so much on fire and had just hit a three? Unacceptable.

Meh, he was ready to help Green against CP3 because Chris was walking to the top of the key almost at will. He also got screened by Griffin. I thought he was a little late to contest, but it wasn't for lack of trying. If you want to point out awful last night, there was a 3 pointer in the 2nd quarter from Foye (who missed it) he didn't even bother to close out. That was bad, but I thought he picked it up in the last quarter.


The steal attempts at the end were nice but it was too little, too late.

They were a gamble to turn around the momentum of the game. Just didn't pan out.

[timvp]

he certainly has the excuse to be sloppy and tired but he's full speed all the time.I graded him higher than his production due to that being true his first few games after his returns from injury. But there's no way he was "full speed" on the defensive end last night.


we should only look at his effort given his ability. Right now his ability isn't as high as it was at the beginning of the season, but he finds ways to contribute just the sameLast night, Ginobili concentrated on the offensive end. And he had great results on that end. Perhaps he thought that was the way to go since the Spurs were without Parker and he had limited energy to work with due to not being in shape.

However, either way, the strategy didn't work. While he supercharged the offense, he more than gave it back on the defensive end.

Looking at the plus/minus of the guards, the numbers back that up:

Points Per 48 Minutes
Ginobili: 115.2
Neal: 101.7
Green: 97.8

Points Allowed Per 48 Minutes
Ginobili: 137.6
Neal: 117.4
Green: 109.6




Again, Ginobili is usually one of the best defenders on the team -- and that's usually remained the case since his returns from injuries -- but he deserves to get called out for a rare horrific defensive performance. Ginobili is almost always a net asset no matter the scenario but anyone being honest will say that was untrue against the Clippers.

[ElNono]

Last night was definitely his first game where he actually had to produce at a high rate on both ends. I would agree he came up short, and mostly on the defensive end. I just disagree it's a C+ overall.

[timvp]

Last night was definitely his first game where he actually had to produce at a high rate on both ends. I would agree he came up short, and mostly on the defensive end. I just disagree it's a C+ overall.Damn bro, Manu's first grade below B of the season (IIRC) has you in rare form :tu

There's not much more I can say if the Spurs getting lit up to the tune of 80 points in less than 28 minutes of action shouldn't knock Manu down from a B+ or A or whatever it is you think he deserved. Especially when it was players he was defending and the aspect of the defense he's most responsible for (perimeter defense) causing most of the damage.

If we are going to ignore Manu's shortcoming on defense last night, we might as well never criticize what he does on defense again because whatever he does in the future will look great compared to last night.

[ElNono]

Damn bro, Manu's first grade below B of the season (IIRC) has you in rare form :tu

There's not much more I can say if the Spurs getting lit up to the tune of 80 points in less than 28 minutes of action shouldn't knock Manu down from a B+ or A or whatever it is you think he deserved. Especially when it was players he was defending and the aspect of the defense he's most responsible for (perimeter defense) causing most of the damage.

If we are going to ignore Manu's shortcoming on defense last night, we might as well never criticize what he does on defense again because whatever he does in the future will look great compared to last night.

:lol I'm just looking at Neal with a B- and scratching the dozen or so hairs I have left my head, that's all. I understand you rate players on expectations. I also understand that last night's game was a great occasion for manu to be super manu, and it didn't happen.

But I thought he was far and away our best offensive player and his defense, while awful, wasn't necessarily that much more awful than Neal, Green (or frankly, everybody else).

The fact this is the first time I disagree with your grades this season and it's the first time Manu is rated below B is very likely purely coincidental... :lol

[jason1301]

So if Bowen couldn't guard CP3, I'm not going to bet that Green can.

That kinda of math does not work in Basketball. Green is one of our better defenders, I think it's ok to give him that experience, as part of a growing process. We didn't loose the game because of him.

[pgardn]

Parker is the only guy on the Spurs besides Ford (and he is not as quick) who can actually stay in front of Paul if not picked off. That is huge.

This Clipper team can put up big numbers on any defense if they are hitting outside shots after Paul penetrates. Of course our D was not good, but people are again reading way too much into individual games. We are as good as ANY team in the Western conference right now. Further defensive lapses with Parker playing would be a cause for concern. We already knew we are not that good defensively. Im waiting to see if we really suck. The addition of Splitter playing time has made sure we are not as bad defensively as we were last year.

[timvp]

You're only telling half the story... The problem was that both CP3 and Peja were on fire. Spurs never really shut CP3 down that series, but Bowen ended up shutting down Peja and his 3 pointers which was pivotal in the series.For the record, I didn't mean to insinuate that Parker shut down CP3. I only meant that putting a bigger player on CP3 wasn't effective.

In the first two games of the series, Pop had Bowen on CP3, Manu on Peja and TP on Peterson. And Peja responded by scoring 47 points on 7-for-11 three-pointers in those first two games. When Pop switched Bowen to Peja, Bowen eliminated him from the series: Peja scored 43 points on 4-for-12 three-point shooting in the last five games of the series.

Vintage Bowen, tbh.

[timvp]

Or, Game 4 against the Suns in 2005, quite honest...

You're right, IMO. Too many championships.

[therealtruth]

For the record, I didn't mean to insinuate that Parker shut down CP3. I only meant that putting a bigger player on CP3 wasn't effective.

In the first two games of the series, Pop had Bowen on CP3, Manu on Peja and TP on Peterson. And Peja responded by scoring 47 points on 7-for-11 three-pointers in those first two games. When Pop switched Bowen to Peja, Bowen eliminated him from the series: Peja scored 43 points on 4-for-12 three-point shooting in the last five games of the series.

Vintage Bowen, tbh.

Pop doesn't stress individual defense as much anymore. But with TD and Bowen Pop used to be able to take out two guys from the other team on offense. Now the Spurs really don't shut anyone down individually. It's a dangerous game when you allow multiple guys to get hot on offense.

[ChumpDumper]

I've yet to hear a better explanation of why the spurs suddenly went from a 11 game winning streak to dropping 4 of the next 7, starting with that loss to the blazers.

Or perhaps I am imagining that too. :lolLineup changes and injuries.

Dipshit.

[Slippy]

Danny Green was the worst defender out here. He gives way too much room in the hope of staying in front of his man. If the guy he's guarding is quicker off the dribble and has a steady jumper . Look-out.

The scary part was he seemed satisfied letting a 5-foot-10 guy simply shoot over him extending his arm only at the last moment on defense. It took a defensive play from Tiago to show how it's best done.

To be fair to Green, when on the pic'n''roll involving Duncan it's pretty much fending for yourself. Don't expect a switch or help.

[TD 21]

Tony Parker Inc.
Tony Parker missed the game with either a thigh contusion, a thigh strain or a hyperextended knee, depending on who you want to believe. While it's obvious that Parker has been an asset on the offensive end this season, he's actually been a bigger difference-maker on defense. When he's been on the court this season, the Spurs allow 91.1 points per 48 minutes. When Parker has been on the bench, the Spurs have allowed 102.7 points per 48 minutes. I'm not sure what the reason is for the huge disparity but let's hope San Antonio's All-Star point guard can return soon.

It's simple: Because Ford has missed the majority of the season, without Parker they don't have another small, quick guard to chase the likes of Paul and Williams, which is why those two predictably lit them up yesterday. And those two aren't even jet setters.

Pop C+
On one hand, Pop should be commended for doing enough to keep the Spurs in the game against one of the better teams in the West without the team's All-Star player. But his utter lack of imagination on the defensive end was baffling. It was painfully obvious that Green on Paul wasn't working but Pop stubbornly stuck to his guns. Pop of the past would have kept changing things up until he found something that was working on the defensive end. Tonight, he seemed resigned to the fact that the Spurs were literally defenseless.More like F. I had no problem with the decision to sit Duncan and Parker against the Trail Blazers, but this is just nonsense. They need as many wins as possible during this stretch before a couple of grueling back-to-back-to-backs and he's sitting out his two PG's, even though neither has an identifiable injury. One's got bumps and bruises and the others dealing with what, trauma? Then he compounds this by still not starting Ginobili and predictably playing him under 30 minutes. He might as well have given Duncan and Ginobili the night off, because he gave his team no chance to win.

And when is he going to stop pretending the defense will get better as "the young guys get more used to the system"? They've been at home for a while, have played no back to backs in that span, have been about as healthy as they've been and had plenty of practice time, yet the defense is about as bad now as it was early in the season. He needs to wake up. It's not about experience, it's about personnel.

[timvp]

And those two aren't even jet setters. :lol


he's sitting out his two PG's, even though neither has an identifiable injury.Parker pretty clearly hurt his knee/thigh in the previous game. TJ Ford was dealing with yet another paralysis scare. No coach would have played Ford and I'd assume a majority would have sat Parker.


And when is he going to stop pretending the defense will get better as "the young guys get more used to the system"? They've been at home for a while, have played no back to backs in that span, have been about as healthy as they've been and had plenty of practice time, yet the defense is about as bad now as it was early in the season. He needs to wake up. It's not about experience, it's about personnel.Can't really disagree with that.

[TD 21]

:lol

Relatively speaking, of course. By NBA standards, they're not. Obviously, they're on the quicker side though.


Parker pretty clearly hurt his knee/thigh in the previous game. TJ Ford was dealing with yet another paralysis scare. No coach would have played Ford and I'd assume a majority would have sat Parker. I saw it. I also didn't hear an actual injury afterwards. What I basically heard was the equivalent of bumps and bruises. In other words, part of the NBA grind. Because most coaches are constantly concerned about their job security, he'd have absolutely played in most cases, unless he told them he couldn't go. Which I doubt he'd have done in this case. With Ford, he had the two days between games. If this is a mental hurdle (understandable), then retire. But a "stinger" does not constitute an injury either.

Every time someone on this team has so much as a paper cut, they're out. Meanwhile, Bryant could be decapitated and he'd still play. He does it for mostly the wrong reasons, but still. And don't think this will "put money in the bank"; it won't. Just like dropping Duncan's minutes from 31 pg to 28 pg last season didn't matter in the playoffs, this won't either. It'll only matter in the sense of making it more difficult for them to maintain the second seed, which will only make it more difficult for them to advance.

[DPG21920]

Kobe would have played tbh. Maybe that's why it's Kobe 5 > Spurs 4.

[RodNIc91]

^ Shaq says Hi!

[SpurYank]

Man! I've been watching this same game (Spurs Vs other NBA teams) for over 40 years. The intervening variables that gave us a loss and a Clippers win are so many and so varied that all the bitching, strategizing, what if's, etc., are so useless that you guys are wasting your time. I watched the game from up here in Maryland and thought Mo Williams and Chris Paul, being in the funk they were in last night, could have beaten any team in any league, anywhere. The Spurs lose 30 games each year and still manage to win a few championships, which many teams in the NBA are unable to do.

I enjoyed the hell out of this game. Can't wait for the next one (against my hometown Wizards.

[ElNono]

For the record, I didn't mean to insinuate that Parker shut down CP3. I only meant that putting a bigger player on CP3 wasn't effective.

In the first two games of the series, Pop had Bowen on CP3, Manu on Peja and TP on Peterson. And Peja responded by scoring 47 points on 7-for-11 three-pointers in those first two games. When Pop switched Bowen to Peja, Bowen eliminated him from the series: Peja scored 43 points on 4-for-12 three-point shooting in the last five games of the series.

Vintage Bowen, tbh.

Yep, and even with a lost step, he was so much better than Udoka. Who can forget that 1st game of the WCF against the Lakeshow...

[Manufan909]

Man! I've been watching this same game (Spurs Vs other NBA teams) for over 40 years. The intervening variables that gave us a loss and a Clippers win are so many and so varied that all the bitching, strategizing, what if's, etc., are so useless that you guys are wasting your time. I watched the game from up here in Maryland and thought Mo Williams and Chris Paul, being in the funk they were in last night, could have beaten any team in any league, anywhere. The Spurs lose 30 games each year and still manage to win a few championships, which many teams in the NBA are unable to do.

I enjoyed the hell out of this game. Can't wait for the next one (against my hometown Wizards.

QFT

I wish I wasn´t on vacation for the next 2 games, cuz even the small chance that the Spurs will lose one of those games is almost too much to bare, since I´ll have to read through all the bitching and moaning.

Concerning the actual grades, it´s sad to hear that Splitter and Kawhi have both regressed in their own unique ways. Timvp, do you believe they´re both just in a funk?

[therealtruth]

Danny Green was the worst defender out here. He gives way too much room in the hope of staying in front of his man. If the guy he's guarding is quicker off the dribble and has a steady jumper . Look-out.

The scary part was he seemed satisfied letting a 5-foot-10 guy simply shoot over him extending his arm only at the last moment on defense. It took a defensive play from Tiago to show how it's best done.

To be fair to Green, when on the pic'n''roll involving Duncan it's pretty much fending for yourself. Don't expect a switch or help.

The Spurs are B level athletes at best. It's just not possible for them to play defense on the perimeter that well. They need some shotblocking help inside so perimeter guys can not worry about getting beat of the dribble. The only way they can really play that way right now is with TD and TS.

[SpurNation]

Danny Green was the worst defender out here. He gives way too much room in the hope of staying in front of his man. If the guy he's guarding is quicker off the dribble and has a steady jumper . Look-out.

The scary part was he seemed satisfied letting a 5-foot-10 guy simply shoot over him extending his arm only at the last moment on defense. It took a defensive play from Tiago to show how it's best done.

To be fair to Green, when on the pic'n''roll involving Duncan it's pretty much fending for yourself. Don't expect a switch or help.

Saw that too. Excellent point.

[SpurNation]

Matt Bonner C-
Friday night was an odd evening for Matt Bonner. Though he was effective off the dribble and made a few nice passes, his three-point touch failed him. Other than a few glaring exceptions, his post defense was decent and he wasn't a liability around the basket … but he was poor against pick-and-roll sets and in terms of switching to the open man. It added up to a negative night at the office for Bonner. To complete his underwhelming performance, Bonner missed his final three field goal attempts -- each of which would have been big shots in the fourth quarter. IIRC...there was an article regarding "clutch"?


Kawhi Leonard C+
Earlier in the season, Kawhi Leonard could be counted on to bring a presence defensively but was a liability on the offensive end. Today, it's the other way around. He scored in double-digits for the fourth straight game. Over his last six games, he has 69 points in 130 minutes -- for an extremely impressive rate of 25.5 points per 48 minutes. He's also averaging 12.6 rebounds per 48 minutes over that time frame. That said, as was the case again against the Clippers, Leonard's defense has really suffered. He's decent at challenging jumpers but he isn't keeping anyone in front of him and his help defense is non-existent. Is it time to allow Kawhi to try his hand (in the right scenario) at PF to where he may emulate as a Josh Smith type of player?

[timvp]

Concerning the actual grades, it´s sad to hear that Splitter and Kawhi have both regressed in their own unique ways. Timvp, do you believe they´re both just in a funk?

Regarding Splitter, he doesn't looking totally healthy yet. His stamina is back to being poor and his overall movement isn't nearly what it was before the calf injury. What will be interesting to see is if Splitter's stretch of games where he played at All-Star level per-minute production was a fluke or it's what should be expected when he's totally healthy.

Regarding Kawhi, his offense has never been better. His rebounding is really good. It's just that his defense has fallen off of a cliff. But, honestly, Pop doesn't seem to care. Pop will pull Green for any mistake but he looks the other way when Kawhi is getting burned again and again.

Kawhi's issue, IMO, is that since he's no longer starting and locked into a certain defensive matchup, he's just going through the motions on that end. And if Pop isn't going to care, it's difficult to expect a 20-year-old to care, tbh.

[timvp]

Is it time to allow Kawhi to try his hand (in the right scenario) at PF to where he may emulate as a Josh Smith type of player?

No. Kawhi at power forward should only occur if it's 100% proven he can't play out on the perimeter. His ceiling at power forward is pretty low ... probably even lower than Blair's ceiling.

For Kawhi's long-term success, Pop has to keep him at small forward. In fact, Kawhi's position of highest ceiling is probably shooting guard. His skillset at that position could be dominant. Though most likely, he's a small forward ... which isn't bad at all since a lot of scouts thought he'd be shaky at any place other than PF.

[Ice009]

Can you get into a defensive rhythm though if Pop keeps changing your role and the lineups all the time?

He should start Kawhi to allow him to develop some consistency.

[TD 21]

Regarding Splitter, he doesn't looking totally healthy yet. His stamina is back to being poor and his overall movement isn't nearly what it was before the calf injury. What will be interesting to see is if Splitter's stretch of games where he played at All-Star level per-minute production was a fluke or it's what should be expected when he's totally healthy.

Regarding Kawhi, his offense has never been better. His rebounding is really good. It's just that his defense has fallen off of a cliff. But, honestly, Pop doesn't seem to care. Pop will pull Green for any mistake but he looks the other way when Kawhi is getting burned again and again.

Kawhi's issue, IMO, is that since he's no longer starting and locked into a certain defensive matchup, he's just going through the motions on that end. And if Pop isn't going to care, it's difficult to expect a 20-year-old to care, tbh.

I'm confident he'll get back at least close to where he was, but it's still frustrating to watch him playing overly cautious while this team gets bludgeoned on the glass consistently in the process. His post scoring is nice, but they don't need it like they need his rebounding. Especially with Blair's minutes shrinking.

I think Pop is harder on Green because he's not a rookie. He played four years at a prestigious school, under high quality coaching. Then he had a year with the Cavs, under a quality defensive coach. Granted, he didn't play much then, but still. He probably sees his potential defensively and considers his background and thinks he should be more consistent. He probably also doesn't want him forgetting to think defense first, just because he's turned out better offensively than expected.

As far as Leonard, I'm hoping they start him after they sign Diaw, so as to offset the lack of rebounding in the starting lineup. With more shooting at the four, they can afford to sacrifice some at the three.

[ace3g]

Good to see Mo Williams return to his normal % ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ar4sLezCtiWF4Gs990twD.68vLYF?gid=201 2031112

[timvp]

Chris Paul vs. Spurs with Tony Parker on the court this season
Minutes: 65
Points: 26
Assists: 13
FG%: 29%
3P%: 25%
Plus/Minus: -37

Chris Paul vs. Spurs with Tony Parker on the bench this season
Minutes: 50
Points: 39
Assists: 13
FG%: 56%
3P%: 57%
Plus/Minus: +14

:wow

Make of that what you will, tbh.

[ace3g]

Nancy Gay ‏ @nancygay

CLIPS Chris Paul wearing a Kobe-style mask after taking an elbow from Spurs' swingman Green Fri, sustaining nasal fracture.
Retweeted by Richard Oliver

[gilmor]

Chris Paul vs. Spurs with Tony Parker on the court this season
Minutes: 65
Points: 26
Assists: 13
FG%: 29%
3P%: 25%
Plus/Minus: -37

Chris Paul vs. Spurs with Tony Parker on the bench this season
Minutes: 50
Points: 39
Assists: 13
FG%: 56%
3P%: 57%
Plus/Minus: +14

:wow

Make of that what you will, tbh.

Psychology. Paul is initimated with Parker on the floor.