Bagging on TD

[Marcus Bryant]

There seems to be a not too little dumping on TD over the last few days. Fine by me, East Coast sports media and Piston Fan. We Spurs fans will just have to suffer with such a horrible player while you enjoy such great players as Rasheed "Leave Big Shot Rob" Wallace.

Good day.

[constantstate]

Rasheed "headcase" Wallace.

[fraga]

You mean Rash "Weed"...

[weebo]

Rasheed "smokin d'weed" Wallace.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

What's wrong with criticizing him? He almost single-handedly gave the game away.

[Tobias]

Rasheed "witness to all the great Spurs shots" Wallace

[ambchang]

What's wrong with criticizing him? He almost single-handedly gave the game away.

With 26 points and 19 rebounds? Yeah, I mean, without Duncan, the Spurs would have won by 31 points.

[samikeyp]

The dude had a bad 4Q....and a lot of people want to drop the "overrated" and "soft" cards. Valid criticism is one thing, the overrated thing is a bit extreme.

[easjer]

I'm sort of at a loss. So he missed some free throws. Shrug. He had a great night, and carried the team through three and a half quarters. On bad ankles. Bad ankles aren't an excuse for missing big shots, but stop and think about how incredible he's been this season and this series. Timmy is still the superstar, and still the franchise. Imagine what he'd be doing if he had the same lateral movement and lift he's had in the past when healthy. He'd be dancing around Rasheed and pulling in even more boards.

I don't get the hate. He remains one of the best in game, and more so because he'll be the first to tell you what he did wrong instead of how great he is.

Not to take anything away from Roberty Horry, but not many people are focusing on the fact that if he'd made some of those easy layups and dunks he flat missed in the first three quarters, Timmy's free throws wouldn't have been an issue. He came up big, and he deserves all the praise for his amazing play at the end. But don't discredit what Timmy did because of the last shots in the fourth - he kept them going and set the tone overall.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Rasheed "guess if i feel like playing today" Wallace

[SWC Bonfire]

What's wrong with criticizing him? He almost single-handedly gave the game away.

He was the reason that the spurs were in position to win the game, instead of being blown out.

Anybody who wouldn't want Tim Duncan on their team is a frickin' moron. I'd imagine that most teams would be content w/ 26 & 19 against the Wallaces (and limiting 'Sheed all series long).

[Spurminator]

I've got no problem with criticism, but listening to some of the Media today it's as if that game defined Duncan's career to date.

[Marcus Bryant]

Leaving the most clutch active postseason shooter in the league off an out of bounds play in the last minute of OT > the sum of what TD did last night with regards to "choking", "stupidity" or whatever else Piston Fan wants to throw out there...

[samikeyp]

If the Spurs win this series...all that History will see is that as of 2005, Duncan had 3 rings.

[constantstate]

What's wrong with criticizing him? He almost single-handedly gave the game away.
he outplayed your starting frontcourt for starters. secondly, there was probably a worse choke artist or two on detroit and no one's talking about it now either because of horry. billups missed twice (and i believe he goes by the name mr. big shot?) and rasheed "i cant play my game without my hand being held" wallace left horry open for that killer 3.

[Medvedenko]

Now, I do realize that he carried the spurs through the first 3 quarters, but his missed FT's caused the heorics by Big shot Rob...if TD, sacked up and made them, it would be game over...I call it being bailed out.

[SWC Bonfire]

They'll forget about this 4th quarter when the casual fan (and most reporters:lol) looks in the recordbook and it shows Duncan's third finals MVP.

[DDS4]

Most of the criticizing of Tim is coming from non-Spur fans.

What makes Billups and Rip exempt? They missed shots at the end.

[samikeyp]

I agree with you Med but I don't think that game defines his career like some of the Media are trying to imply.

[Big Pimp_21]

Rasheed "almost a Chris Webber" Wallace

[constantstate]

Now, I do realize that he carried the spurs through the first 3 quarters, but his missed FT's caused the heorics by Big shot Rob...if TD, sacked up and made them, it would be game over...I call it being bailed out.
maybe you're right... cause i've always wanted to go around saying that shaq's entire career was one big bailout.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, he was bailed out. Big deal. Jordan and the Bulls had a pretty lousy 4th quarter one time before Paxson came in and bailed them out. Shaq and Kobe were lucky to be in the Finals in 2002. Hakeem might have been another one of those great players without a Championship if not for many timely shots by Elie, Horry and Cassell.

It happens.

[easjer]

Now, I do realize that he carried the spurs through the first 3 quarters, but his missed FT's caused the heorics by Big shot Rob...if TD, sacked up and made them, it would be game over...I call it being bailed out.

Yeah. And if Manu's last shot had gone in, same thing. If Robert Horry had hit his effing layups in the first half, same thing. If a couple of the missed three's went in. . .

It's unfair to single out Timmy D - he had a fantastic game. Everyone screwed up. He missed a couple of free throws, which he is prone to do - it's his Achilles heel. If you want to make sure that is not the deciding factor, the teams should play so that if he gets fouled in the end, his shots are bonus points, not game deciders.

He screwed up - we all know it. So did everyone else. But not everyone else has a monster game to hang their hat on. He knows he can do better - I expect he will. The level of criticism and harshness is unwarranted.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I'm not saying he is overrated or that I wouldn't want him on my team.

He wilted in crunch time. Horry got his back and that's what great teams do.

[Marcus Bryant]

How many times did Horry bail out Shaq and Kobe? Hmmmm....guess they suck too.

[ObiwanGinobili]

If the Spurs win this series...all that History will see is that as of 2005, Duncan had 3 rings.


thank god :fro

[constantstate]

if anything, i think the media who picked up on that "bench chat" that pop and duncan were having during the end of game 4... should go back and say... he looked defeated... like he quit... and then came out and smacked out a 26pt 19reb game in game 5.

they would have if his name was shaq.

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree with you Med but I don't think that game defines his career like some of the Media are trying to imply.

That's the thing that I don't get.

To hear most of the media talk today, you'd think that Tim had some long history of not playing well when it matters most, and that this was just some sort of confirmation of that problem. But that's not even close to the truth.

Tim played in his 16th Finals game last night, and its the first time, through all of those efforts, that anyone has deigned to suggest that he's a choker or lacks the fortitude to get it done in the clutch. His great games with big plays in crunch time exceed the instances of crunch time struggles by a significant margin. Tim was exceptional in Game 5 of the 1999 Finals and he was down right dominant in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals, both close-out games.

Somehow, in the haste to bury Tim Duncan as a product of David Robinson -- a laughable idea in light of what most were saying circa 1999 and 2003 about David's success being attributable to Tim -- the only evidence to support the charge is a bad free throw shooting night in a hostile environment during a game in which he went 26-19-2-2. That's not much evidence that the guy is "overrated" or somehow unable to get it done when it matters most.

[midgetonadonkey]

Now, I do realize that he carried the spurs through the first 3 quarters, but his missed FT's caused the heorics by Big shot Rob...if TD, sacked up and made them, it would be game over...I call it being bailed out.


Bailed out or not, he's on the winning team. I don't know Duncan personally, but I'm sure that is all that matters to him.

[TwoHandJam]

First 36 minutes of the game: R. Horry - 0 pts 3 T/O.

Who really bailed out whom?

[CubanMustGo]

First 36 minutes of the game: R. Horry - 0 pts 3 T/O.

Who really bailed out whom?

This is what the media fails to credit most about the Spurs. They play as a TEAM. When one player is not doing well, others have his back. Last night was Rob's turn.

But, no, let's make up a story so we can push some newsprint. Since most people aren't watching the games anyway, these clowns can get away with just about whatever they want and not get called. I was reading some "columnist" today who was talking about the Spurs "tradition of choking." My God, how many championships do we have to win before these assholes will stop beating that dead horse?

"In 1979, the Spurs were up 3-1 on Washington before losing the last three games." OK, guys, you were probably sucking on momma's teat in 1979, but you don't keep bringing that up. Enough!

[Marcus Bryant]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2005/dailydime?page=dailydime-050619

There are some who are going to say that Tim Duncan faltered near the end of the game and was saved by Robert Horry.

I think those people are nuts.

We're talking about a guy who went into a hostile arena where he hadn't had much success over the past two games and dominated.

We're talking about a guy who was aggressive like we haven't seen from him as he ripped down rebound after rebound.

We're talking about a guy who had more rebounds than Rasheed and Ben Wallace combined.

Does that sound like a guy who faltered?

Duncan had a monster game with 26 points and 19 rebounds, and while Horry will get all the pub because of his extraordinary game, it shouldn't overshadow the fact that Duncan was awesome. His eight offensive rebounds were amazing against one of the best and most athletic front lines in the game.

Let's not forget that Horry was in a situation to put them over the top because of Duncan's marvelous game.

– Tim Legler, from The Palace of Auburn Hills

[tlongII]

Actually most of the "bagging on TD" was done by Spurs' fans in here.

[Xolotl]

Actually most of the "bagging on TD" was done by Spurs' fans in here.

Hell yeah I was ripping him apart last night. If they would've lost I know that some people wouldve called for his head. I don't have the stats infront of me but he missed like 5 FT's in a row to help seal the game (let me know if im mistaking), not to mention a tip in that wouldve won it in Regulation.

I'm not saying he's not arguably the greatest player in the NBA today. What I am saying is just b/c he is a multi MVP in PO and Reg Season don't be afraid to criticize him when he deserves it. He was a beast throughout the game except from the FT line. And, I'm glad even he recognized last night that he got his ass saved by Horry.

One more thing did he even score in the OT?

[Kori Ellis]

I just don't see how you criticize a guy who has openly said that after three quarters his ankles are aching badly, but "what can you do" you just have to play -- it's the playoffs.

So if he has no lift at all by the third quarter, no one should be surprised that he can't hit shots. The Spurs are a team. RoHo sucked for the first 3 quarters and people were calling for his head. He obviously took over in the 4th and OT.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's the thing. If TD was in LA or NY he would seem like the second coming of Willis Reed.

[constantstate]

thats how i feel too. if he'd been somewhere the press was in love with... and had come back from 2 horrible games and done that to the wallaces... that would be the co-story. horry's game savers would have been just as huge, but no one would have said shaq choked at the FT line... or kobe couldnt tip it in over so and so...

big shot rob has saved their butts too... so its not like there isnt something to compare it to (media-wise)

[Marcus Bryant]

Seriously, if Tim Duncan was a Knick or Laker he would be heralded as the greatest bigman ever right now.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Seriously, if Tim Duncan was a Knick or Laker he would be heralded as the greatest bigman ever right now.


He pretty much already is hailed as that, last I checked.

The "experts" are giving him his due props, hardly any of them really bash him.

[Kori Ellis]

The "experts" are giving him his due props, hardly any of them really bash him.

Bill Walton called him soft last night before the game on National TV. I know that your response will probably be "Walton isn't an expert" but that's not the point. Walton said that if the Spurs lost this series that Tim's legacy would be in question and a lot of other crap.

I never really pay much attention to what the national pundits say, but that kind of crap was completely unnecessary. Even if Duncan choked this whole series, it wouldn't take away from what he's already done in his career.

[Jdspur20]

Now, I do realize that he carried the spurs through the first 3 quarters, but his missed FT's caused the heorics by Big shot Rob...if TD, sacked up and made them, it would be game over...I call it being bailed out.

correct, let me ask you a question since your a laker fan, hasn't horry, fisher, etc. bailed out kobe and shaq in the past as well?

[constantstate]

if tim duncan had come out and played like he'd given up... or had the kind of game that would lead you to believe that... that would be different. because he had two bad games in a row, and basically it looked like the whole team fed off of that... alot of pressure was put on him to play well in game 5... and he DID. (not alot of credit is being given by the media) timmy leggs aside...

win or lose i dont think that 26/19 would ever go into the books as giving up??? but since the media picked up on that whole "pop talk" on the bench of game 4... they're not gonna let that angle go. and since he doesnt play for a media-favorite city, he's gonna get those questions tossed at him unfairly now.

i think to question his legacy or at least have a valid argument... he would have had to come out and looked beat. not played well. or would have had to have been outplayed by lesser players like the wallaces. (it would have been another blow-out loss too)

[spurster]

TD had a very good game. Hitting his FTs in the 4th quarter or even that putback at the end of regulation would have made it a great game.

[T Park]

BTW, add Tony Kornheiser to the list.

"Saved Tim Duncan from the biggest gag job in NBA history"

[Sasha]

I'm sort of at a loss. So he missed some free throws. Shrug. He had a great night, and carried the team through three and a half quarters. On bad ankles. Bad ankles aren't an excuse for missing big shots, but stop and think about how incredible he's been this season and this series. Timmy is still the superstar, and still the franchise. Imagine what he'd be doing if he had the same lateral movement and lift he's had in the past when healthy. He'd be dancing around Rasheed and pulling in even more boards.

I don't get the hate. He remains one of the best in game, and more so because he'll be the first to tell you what he did wrong instead of how great he is.

Not to take anything away from Roberty Horry, but not many people are focusing on the fact that if he'd made some of those easy layups and dunks he flat missed in the first three quarters, Timmy's free throws wouldn't have been an issue. He came up big, and he deserves all the praise for his amazing play at the end. But don't discredit what Timmy did because of the last shots in the fourth - he kept them going and set the tone overall.


WORD!!!

We turned ABC off and listened to WOAI (even with the 30-minute lag) when some idiot (don't know who it was) before the game even started called Timmy "a shell of his former self" or something stupid like that. We knew right then what those jerks were gonna say and no one wanted to hear it...

Spurs in 6 - and then we're headin' for downtown!