Jack FAQ: All About the Stephen Jackson Trade

[timvp]

The prodigal son has returned to San Antonio. Unless you've been in a taqueria that lacks internet access, you know that the San Antonio Spurs have traded Richard Jefferson, TJ Ford and a first round draft pick to the Golden State Warriors for Stephen Jackson. The trade was consummated less than an hour before the trade deadline. The reaction to the trade has been overwhelmingly favorable -- by both fanbases.

Let's take a closer look at this trade to figure out all the ramifications.

What was San Antonio's main motivation in making this deal?
While Pop has always been a fan of Stephen Jackson, this trade wasn't about acquiring the controversial swingman. The main reason the Spurs made this trade was to save money. Jackson's contract calls for him to be paid $10,059,750 next season. On the other hand, Jefferson is to be paid $10,164,000 next season and $11,046,000 in 2013-14. By making this trade, the Spurs basically erase the $11 million they owed Jefferson two seasons from now.

The Spurs are also saving a little bit of money this year. While Jefferson and Jackson are due to make virtually the same amount of money this season, the Spurs also included TJ Ford's contract (~$684,000) in the trade. By doing so, San Antonio doesn't have to pay the remainder of Ford's contract, plus they are off the hook for the corresponding luxury tax payment. That's an additional savings of about $1 million, which pushes the grand total savings up to approximately $12 million.

What was Golden State's motivation?
First of all, Jackson had burned his bridge back to Golden State after demanding a trade from the team a few years ago. When the Warriors reacquired Jackson in the Andrew Bogut trade earlier this week, there was no way they were going to bring back Jackson.

While the Warriors could have simply bought out Jackson's contract, the organization was already feeling a bit of a backlash for trading Monta Ellis for a player (Bogut) who is probably out for the rest of the season. That meant Golden State was in a position where they had to trade Jackson. And because of the large amount of money owed to him next season and his poor play this season, the market was severely limited.

By turning Jackson into Jefferson, the Warriors see it as getting a solid role player who has proven to be reliable over the years. He's also a professional who will seamlessly fit in any lockerroom. On top of that, the Warriors get a first round draft pick in a year in which they may lose their own pick (they owe it to the Jazz unless the pick is in the top seven).

Jefferson won't help the Warriors win any games. Have they watched him play? Are they smoking that Cali greenery?
Well, first of all, Jefferson will probably help. He's a below average NBA player at this point but he still has some value. But even if he doesn't help Golden State win games, that's actually a good thing. They currently have the 11th worst record in the NBA. To have a chance of keeping their protected first round pick, they need to finish with at least the seventh worst record. In other words, the Warriors need to lose games ASAP.

Speaking of draft picks, why did the Spurs have to include a first rounder to complete this trade?
Since the Warriors are taking on so much more salary in this trade, they obviously insisted on the inclusion of the draft pick. And honestly, the Spurs got great value for the first rounder. Historically, late first rounders are worth approximately $3 million. In this trade, the Spurs swapped their first round pick for the ability to shed $12 million. To put that in perspective, the Clippers traded the draft pick to the Cavs that became number one overall pick Kyrie Irving in order to save approximately $10 million.

What if the Spurs fall flat on their face and miss the playoffs? Could they be trading away a lottery pick?
No. Reports indicate that the draft pick going to the Warriors is lottery protected. That means the Spurs get to keep it if they miss the playoffs.

I thought TJ Ford was going to stick around the Spurs after retiring recently. What happened?
Nothing. This trade doesn't change Ford's status with the team. His contract was just included in the trade to save some cash. The Warriors will either waive him or let him officially retire. (Ford didn't technically retire while with the Spurs, he only took a leave of absence. Look for that to change in the next few days.)

What happened to the plan of amnestying Jefferson's contract this summer so the Spurs could open up salary cap space?
If the Spurs amnestied Jefferson's contract this summer, they could have opened up around $15 million in salary cap space. However, that plan was missing one vital aspect: Tim Duncan's next contract. Theoretically, Duncan could have taken a small contract and the Spurs could have still had sizable room under the cap, but recent reports indicated that wasn't going to happen. In fact, the reports state the Spurs will open negotiations with Duncan this summer at around $12 million per season.

Even if Duncan took that opening offer, the Spurs would have been down to around $3 million. And that's not accounting for a re-signed Danny Green or anyone else. So while the Spurs might have had a little bit of salary cap space by holding onto Jefferson's contract and amnestying him, we're talking about a relatively small amount.

After this trade, what will the Spurs have to work with this upcoming summer?
Ginobili, Parker, Jackson, Splitter, Bonner, Leonard, Blair, Neal and Joseph are on the books for about $49 million. Once the Spurs re-sign Duncan, they will undoubtedly exceed the salary cap, which is expected to be approximately $58 million. Thus, the Spurs can freely re-sign their own free agents (namely Duncan, Green and maybe Anderson) and then have the MLE at their disposal, which starts at $5 million and can be up to four years in length.

In subsequent seasons, there will be opportunities to open up a lot of salary cap room. The contracts for Ginobili and Jackson expire in the summer of 2013. If the Duncan and the Spurs opt for only a one-year deal in the offseason, the Spurs could have a mountain of salary cap space that summer. At that point, the only Spur under contract for a noteworthy sum would be Parker at $12.5 million.

Alright, let's talk basketball. In what ways will the Spurs miss Jefferson?
A lot of the Spurs success this season can be tied to the fact that they lead in the NBA in three-point shooting at around 40%. Jefferson has been a big part of that marksmanship. Last season, he shot 44% from deep. This year, he has proven last season wasn't a fluke by shooting 42.1% from beyond the arc.

Jefferson is also one of the least turnover-prone players in the league and his willingness to take a backseat on the offensive end could be viewed as a strength. And while he wasn't always motivated, the small forward was capable of playing above average defense.

It should also be noted that Jefferson was extremely reliable; he missed only two games in his three seasons with the Spurs.

Will Jackson be able to fill those holes left by Jefferson's departure?
Not exactly. While Jackson is a three-point shooter, he's not a very accurate one. He hasn't shot better than 34% from downtown since the 2007-08 season. And limiting turnovers isn't a strength for Jackson. In fact, he has been one of the most turnover happy wings of the last decade. It's also to be seen how willing he will be to take a secondary role. For much of the recent past, Jackson has been either Option 1 or Option 1B on the teams he has been on.

Defensively, Jackson is at least equal to Jefferson. Throughout their careers, I'd say Jackson has been superior to Jefferson on that end of the court. However, Jackson has been much less reliable health-wise, having missed games due to various injuries over the years. This season, he has complained of a back injury and a hamstring injury.

How can Jackson help the Spurs win games?
Defensively, Jackson has a higher ceiling than Jefferson. He's more versatile, more physical and more apt to make a game-changing play. Though he's also more likely to make a mistake on that end of the court, the good should outweigh the bad.

On offense is where Jackson has the ability to really help. Compared to Jefferson, Jackson is a much better ballhandler, passer and playmaker, plus he has a better and more natural feel for the game. With Ford forced into retirement, those traits are even more valuable to these Spurs.

Spurs fans will mention Jackson's ability to come up big in big moments and I believe that shouldn't be understated. Jackson has championship experience and a history of not shrinking when the going gets tough. On a team with championship aspirations, those traits are definitely a plus.

Are there risks to this trade basketball-wise?
Honestly, I don't think the loss of Jefferson is much of a game-changer. He wasn't horrible but he wasn't much of an asset these days. But the main reason the trade shouldn't hurt too much basketball-wise is the emergence of Kawhi Leonard. Since the All-Star break, Leonard had become a much better player than Jefferson. Leonard soaking up more of Jefferson's minutes is a good thing. Plus, with the return of Ginobili, Green is available to play more minutes … and he's reasonably close to Jefferson's level these days.

As far as Jackson is concerned, there some legit concerns. Among them:

-Is he healthy? How's his conditioning? He hasn't played in a while and may not be in basketball shape right now.

-Is he still coachable? A lot has happened since 2003. He listened to Pop (mostly) back then but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll listen to him today.

-Is he willing to be a role player? Jackson has been playing a leading role since he left San Antonio. For this to work, he'll need to embrace a role as a complementary force behind the Big 3.

-Is he going to be able to clean up his sloppy play? In the past, he could negate his turnovers and defensive miscues due to the sheer number of touches he got and the minutes he played. With the Spurs, his mistakes will be more magnified.

-Is he able to shoot better if given higher quality shots? If he accepts his role and takes what the defense gives him, Jackson is going to a ton of open looks. But the Spurs need his accuracy to rise, which could and should happen as a byproduct of better shot selection.

Will Jackson start? If not, what will his role be?
Back in 2003, Jackson started for the Spurs at shooting guard. Today, at 34, Jackson no longer has the speed to be a starting shooting guard in the league. He will either start at small forward or come off the bench.

In the next two games, I expect Kawhi Leonard to get the start at small forward. When Jackson joins the team (it sounds like it'll be next Wednesday versus Minnesota), I expect Pop to keep Leonard in the starting lineup and bring Jackson off the bench. From there, Jackson will be given a chance to win a starting spot. That said, I doubt he'll be handed a starting gig from Day 1.

Come playoff time, it's certainly possible that Jackson will be starting. Truthfully, if all goes smoothly, he will be starting because Jackson is the type of player whose skillset is best suited for the starting lineup.

Since leaving San Antonio, Jackson has never averaged less than 32.1 minutes per game. However, the most I can imagine him playing at this stage of his career and with this squad is about 28 minutes per game.

What if Jackson flames out and isn't a fit?
That's very possible. In addition to the concerns listed above, he could be a bad fit chemistry-wise or do something off the court that negatively impacts his future with the team. However, the beauty of this trade is that it's a good trade no matter what happens with Jackson.

Removing Jackson from the equation, trading a lottery protected first round pick to save $12 million is a trade that every team in the NBA does every time. That alone makes this a good trade; whatever Jackson provides the Spurs on the basketball court is an added bonus.

If worst comes to worst and Jackson isn't a fit, the fact that his contract is expiring after next season mitigates most of the risk. In fact, the Spurs could turn around and use Jackson's contract in a trade at some point next season since an expiring contract of that size holds value.

So, who is the happiest person in all of this?
Pop loved coaching Jackson, so you know he's thrilled about this trade. The Spurs have attempted to get Jackson back on this team ever since he left after the 2003 championship and Pop was the main person pushing for it to happen. Duncan, Ginobili and Parker have all said how much they enjoyed playing with him. Duncan even went as far as to call Jackson "the ultimate teammate".

Peter Holt and the rest of the ownership group are smiling right now. The trade basically added $12 million to the coffers and removed the possibility of the team paying Jefferson not to play. It would have been a difficult pill to swallow for the owners to pay Jefferson $21 million this summer for nothing in return, which would have been the case if he was amnestied. Even if Jackson crashes and burns, there's a lot less dead money on the books tonight than the was yesterday.

Jackson probably has somewhat mixed emotions. On one hand, he gets to return to his home state of Texas and relive his past glory. On the other hand, he's not going to get the contract extension he's been asking about for the last few months. It's also going to be an adjustment for him to not be the man anymore. But underneath everything, I've always though Jackson was a decent person and I think he'll be smart enough to realize how great of a situation he has landed in. If he plays his cards right, he can be a fan favorite who only has to concentrate about one thing: Winning.















.

[timvp]

....reserving this spot in case I want to add more questions, tbh........

[ElNono]

I'm happy RJ is gone. The rest is bonus. We still need a big though.

Thanks for the writeup!

[Drewlius]

Spot on posting as usual.

[DPG21920]

I was going to write a post titled "Buckets & Bullets" that explained something similar, but mine was more geared towards the emotional aspect of what a guy like Jax can do for a veteran team that might have lost the belief they were contenders.

Buckets & Bullets: If the Spurs are going down, they are going down swinging.

I love it. I called Phase I. Can't wait for Phase II.

[Bonner4MVPzz]

good, ead, thanks timvp

[Brazil]

very nice reading tbh

[ElNono]

I was going to write a post titled "Buckets & Bullets" that explained something similar, but mine was more geared towards the emotional aspect of what a guy like Jax can do for a veteran team that might have lost the belief they were contenders.

Buckets & Bullets: If the Spurs are going down, they are going down swinging.

I love it. I called Phase I. Can't wait for Phase II.

There's no doubt that there's a testicular fortitude factor to this trade. Even if Jax isn't capable of producing at a high rate anymore, you know he won't be happily be taking it up the ass.

[Bruno]

Getting cap space this summer looks also way less interesting than a week ago.

Dwight Howard not hitting free agency has a ripple effect on a lot of teams. For example, Spurs first target next summer could have been Brook Lopez. With Howard staying in Orlando, Nets will hold into Lopez.

Spurs could have been too be interested in making a run in Batum but Blazers have traded away Wallace. Batum looks like a big piece of their future.

[ElNono]

I also wouldn't discount Jax starting at SG at a not so distant future, and having Manu/Neal as the backup backcourt.

[Libri]

Wow, the Jack FAQ is comprehensive. :toast

[DPG21920]

Timvp: Do you really think there is a legit chance Jax finds himself with very limited minutes? I think that would be a disaster from a chemistry standpoint and I can't believe the Spurs who wouldn't bench RJ because it would be "awkward" would do so with Jax.

[Mugen]

Lotta great stuff, thanks timvp...



In subsequent seasons, there will be opportunities to open up a lot of salary cap room. The contracts for Ginobili and Jackson expire in the summer of 2013. If the Duncan and the Spurs opt for only a one-year deal in the offseason, the Spurs could have a mountain of salary cap space that summer. At that point, the only Spur under contract for a noteworthy sum would be Parker at $12.5 million.


there also happens to be a drama-queen center that just opted into his final year and will subsequently be a Free Agent in the summer of 2013.....

It'll never happen, but i didnt think Jax coming back would either....

[benefactor]

All these great threads...talking about Buckets...who is back with the Spurs.

I love saying that.

[Bruno]

Thus, the Spurs can freely re-sign their own free agents (namely Duncan, Green and maybe Anderson) and then have the mini MLE at their disposal, which starts at $3 million and can be up to three years in length.

Spurs should have the full MLE. A team has the full MLE ($5M/4years) as long as its payroll stay below $4M below the tax. Spurs should be able to keep their payroll below $74.3M next year even if they pay a player $5M.

[GSH]

The only thing I would sort of disagree with is that Jackson can play defense, when he's in the mood. And even when he's not in the mood, we're still comparing him to Richard Jefferson, so it's an upgrade.

Historically, late first rounders are worth approximately $3 million. In this trade, the Spurs swapped their first round pick for the ability to shed $12 million.

Fine - so now spend some of that $12 Million savings, and find someone to sell us a pick for $3M. The best of both worlds.

[spurs1990]

Amazing the Spurs could go into 2013 with the exact same 12 players. 9 already under contract and Duncan, Green, and James Anderson virtual locks to be resigned.

I like the chemistry for 2013 if this happens. I think they can seriously contend for it all in June 2013.

[DPG21920]

Spurs can contend now. With RJ on the roster, I still felt they had a shot at getting to the WCF if they could get some favorable match ups. Adding Jax while losing RJ makes that more of a likelihood to me.

If they can get lucky with a big man buyout, Spurs will be in a very solid position to make it to the WCF.

[benefactor]

One thing is for sure, this is going to make the farewell tour for the Big 3 even sweeter. You knew that even if the Spurs couldn't win another one you would still get to enjoy the final years of the core and they would put together some vintage moments to savor. I am quite certain that will see some vintage Jack moments to go along with it.

The only better ending to the book would be another set of rings for all of them.

[DPG21920]

I haven't been this excited about a trade since the Spurs acquired Richard Jefferson!

[Hoops Czar]

Amazing the Spurs could go into 2013 with the exact same 12 players. 9 already under contract and Duncan, Green, and James Anderson virtual locks to be resigned.

I like the chemistry for 2013 if this happens. I think they can seriously contend for it all in June 2013.

Some people are under the impression Duncan is going to play into his 50's and still be productive.

[ElNono]

There's one other side-plot to this... Jack will be playing for an extension... there will be that extra motivation there too...

[T Park]

I haven't been this excited about a trade since the Spurs acquired Richard Jefferson!


ah hell...

[Thompson]

Dang- I was hoping I'd get to see him play for us vs. Dallas on Saturday. Oh well. Looking forward to seeing him as a Spur again.

[intlspurshk]

How this trade would affect the signing of Loberk this summer (ie the only chance to upgrade the big) and a backup PG?

[timvp]

Spurs should have the full MLE. A team has the full MLE ($5M/4years) as long as its payroll stay below $4M below the tax. Spurs should be able to keep their payroll below $74.3M next year even if they pay a player $5M.

I would question whether you're right since I see it differently a few places but I'm sure you're right. Thanks :tu

[benefactor]

How this trade would affect the signing of Loberk this summer (ie the only chance to upgrade the big) and a backup PG?
The Spurs should have the full MLE this summer...even after re-upping Duncan. Signing Lorbek will not be a problem if they chose to go that route.

[timvp]

The Spurs should have the full MLE this summer...even after re-upping Duncan. Signing Lorbek will not be a problem if they chose to go that route.

:tu

Might actually improve the chances of Lorbek coming over because it removes the chances of the Spurs chasing a big fish this offseason. Lorbek could very well be the top priority this summer now ... after re-signing Duncan, of course.

[Bruno]

I would question whether you're right since I see it differently a few places but I'm sure you're right. Thanks :tu

The best source is the principle agreement:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_JqVMjKAfLYNzU3YzVlNDAtMDBlOS00Y2UwLWE5ZTItM2RkZ TdjN2FmMzI4/edit?pli=1

It's short and easy to read. The $4M over the tax item is at the end of page 3.

[jestersmash]

For those who haven't kept up with Stephen Jackson's locker room drama in Milwaukee, here are a couple of articles you can refer to -

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-03-01/nba-trade-rumors-stephen-jackson-brandon-jenning-scott-skiles

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-02-18/stephen-jackson-trade-rumors-scott-skiles-milwaukee-bucks-brandon-jennings

A couple of key quotes (from the second article) -

SJax: “It’s very difficult,” Jackson said. “I’m going from playing 38 minutes each game and being one of the top guys in minutes played over the last five years to not playing at all. It’s tough. The only thing that I can do is worry about what I can control and that’s trying to be a professional and keep supporting the young guys. It’s tough, though, with how much I love the game. I know I have a lot of basketball left in me. It’s tough not being out there and not being able to contribute.”

...

SJax: “To not be playing, and not have any reasons behind it, it’s kind of disrespectful,” Jackson said. “At the end of the day, I’m 33 years old. I’m not a 22-year-old guy that you’re coaching. I’m a grown man who’s probably done more than a lot of people in this locker room in this league, including coaches,” Jackson said.


(Unamed) general manager: Either way, Jackson’s remarks have not done much for his trade value. “You’d never say never, of course, but it is hard to imagine anyone taking him on,” one general manager said. “He still thinks he can play like he is 28. He can’t. That might be news to him, but I don’t think it is news to the rest of us.”


----------------------------------------------------

Is this something we have to worry about? Hopefully not. I think Stephen's second quote is perhaps most telling. He just flat out did not respect Scott Skiles and (presumably) most of the players around him. Somehow I doubt Gregg Popovich with his ring-studded resume will have trouble proving that he's "worthy" of coaching SJax as he sees fit.

And then of course you have the calming veteran influence of Duncan/Ginobili/Parker.

Nevertheless, it's something to consider. Will SJax be willing to take a severely limited role compared to what he was probably used to a couple of years ago.

[T Park]

You guys severely underrate the influence Duncan Manu Parker and Pop have on this team.

Guys that could act up, don't, or they're gone. Immediately...

[ElNono]

The thing is, Pop monitors everyone's minutes. Maybe Parker and RJ (while he was here) are the exceptions. Jax can look at Manu or Tim and see they rarely play over 26 or so minutes, which is what I expect him to play.

[ElNono]

And, as I pointed out before, he's looking for a new contract... keeping around the jackass act isn't going to land him one...

[GSH]

Some people are under the impression Duncan is going to play into his 50's and still be productive.

Name one.

[Bruno]

:tu

Might actually improve the chances of Lorbek coming over because it removes the chances of the Spurs chasing a big fish this offseason. Lorbek could very well be the top priority this summer now ... after re-signing Duncan, of course.

Full MLE contracts are way less interesting with the new CBA than in the past. in 2010-2011, a full MLE deal was $33.4M/5 years. In 2012-2013, a full MLE deal is $21.4M/4 years.

One of the effect of this new CBA is that it will way harder to attract good NBA vets with the full MLE. They will either re-sign with their team or with a team below the cap. For example, Spurs could have had a shot at a player like Ilyasova with a $33M offer and they have not a chance at getting with a $21M offer.

Lorbek being Spurs 1st target next summer is even more likely when you consider that they won't be able to get a good established player with their full MLE.

[Redshadows]

Will SJax play tomorrow?

[jestersmash]

Will SJax play tomorrow?

The probability that he'll play tomorrow is approximately 0%.

[baseline bum]

Jefferson was a completely sunk cost; dude has been worthless and relegated to spot minutes because of it two postseasons in a row. No reason to think that would have changed this time around. In the 2010 offseason I said the Spurs would have been better off letting Jefferson walk and signing nobody to replace him, so of course I'm ecstatic when he can be flipped into someone with a strong playoff history who also happens to be one of my favorite players of all-time. Any production Jack can give the Spurs is gravy IMO (and it's not crazy to think it will be there since he's only a year removed from being a really solid SF).

[therealtruth]

I was going to write a post titled "Buckets & Bullets" that explained something similar, but mine was more geared towards the emotional aspect of what a guy like Jax can do for a veteran team that might have lost the belief they were contenders.

Buckets & Bullets: If the Spurs are going down, they are going down swinging.

I love it. I called Phase I. Can't wait for Phase II.

I won't deny that Jackson will add more bite to a team that needed more in the first round last year. I just wonder if it's enough to make up for Bonner/Blair.

[Borosai]

Many good informations.

[GSH]

Jefferson was a completely sunk cost; dude has been worthless and relegated to spot minutes because of it two postseasons in a row. No reason to think that would have changed this time around. In the 2010 offseason I said the Spurs would have been better off letting Jefferson walk and signing nobody to replace him, so of course I'm ecstatic when he can be flipped into someone with a strong playoff history who also happens to be one of my favorite players of all-time. Any production Jack can give the Spurs is gravy IMO (and it's not crazy to think it will be there since he's only a year removed from being a really solid SF).

You know, even if everything else was exactly equal, Jackson isn't soft. Jefferson is. I don't know how you quantify that, but it's worth a lot.

[DMC]

Jack sure as hell won't try to disappear on the court. He might be pulled early a few times for chucking, but I'll take just about anything over Mrs Walton.

[DMC]

I won't deny that Jackson will add more bite to a team that needed more in the first round last year. I just wonder if it's enough to make up Bonner/Blair.
Probably not, but that's not the point. He replaces RJ and saves us 12 million. That's called a great move. The Bonner/Blair thing is a different issue. You aren't going to end up with 5 great starters and a great bench. There has to be some weaknesses but at least these guys have some strengths. With Jackson out there, there won't be as much of a need for Bonner to play defense and the bigs won't have to sag out to help defend the man RJ just ignored.

[intlspurshk]

One of the cons for this trade is making this year draft less interesting for SPURS fan. I hope SPURS will consider trading for a 1st round pick in this year draft as well.

[angelbelow]

You guys severely underrate the influence Duncan Manu Parker and Pop have on this team.

Guys that could act up, don't, or they're gone. Immediately...

Good to have you back but I think while its great having Duncan Manu and Parker in the locker room, they aren't super effective as leaders either.

Manu is great in game but is way too mellow off court. Duncan is a man a few words and Parker only recently started to assert himself. That leaves pop, who while a great leader can be blinded by his own stubbornness.

Spurs have great personnel because they scout well and they take in certain players. But when someone upsets the establishment I think their solution is to rid the player rather than reform him.

[SenorSpur]

Helluva post!

Keep this quality shit comin'.

I sure hope you string one of these together this offseaon on best FA bigman options for the Spurs for next year, along with pros and cons of each.

[SenorSpur]

Amazing the Spurs could go into 2013 with the exact same 12 players. 9 already under contract and Duncan, Green, and James Anderson virtual locks to be resigned.

I like the chemistry for 2013 if this happens. I think they can seriously contend for it all in June 2013.

Do you really believe Anderson has a future here, after his agent went "off the reservation" and requested a trade? I'd like to see him workout here too, but there just doesn't appear to be much room for him and his poor showings certainly aren't helping his value.

If the Spurs could flip him, and something else, into either a low 1st round pick, or even a very high second, in the upcoming June draft, that would be great.

[Rapper]

How much the spurs offer him per year?

[TDMVPDPOY]

this trade gives us the ability to have 2-3 wing defenders on the court at the same time while someone takes a breather, while the teams defense doesnt take a hit...

jax, kl, gino, green

[crc21209]

Awesome write-up timvp. :tu Damn the line-up possibilities with SJax are endless now!

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

really do appreciate the write up as well
as im sure all the hundreds who read and leave but we do.

to have jax back a real MAN In RETURN i agree w/ the above poster and have always said manu is really the most important person when it comes to winning, even when he's not playing he looks pissed when we lose and its so refreshing to see.

instead of hanging your head and putting your tail between your legs, while u pout
(red rockshit) & like jefferson last year and the year before where he would just act like it was no big deal as he got taken on raped at the three and everywhere else well thats infectious b/c if you see tim duncan when he had bonner starting w/him and just no help he looked like he was removed from some p.o games.

you cant surround yourself with losers or people who are even somewhat ok with losing. sorry losing isnt an option for me & many of us as we take on life and it shouldnt be for our spurs either

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol where are the haters that didnt want a jax trade all year...fck them where you at?

[mountainballer]

hmmm.
didn't Sjax play some of the best defense against Dirk that the NBA has seen in the last decade?
ok, that was some years back, but as it stands right now, there is a very good chance that the Spurs and Mavs will meet in the first round of the PO.
did the Spurs have this in mind when they did the trade.

[shorttotry]

If the Spurs actually win this year, the #3 jersey should be retired.

We now have some players I trust with the ball at the end of game in Neal, Manu, Action Jackson, and Duncan!

I'm like a little giddy fucking girl right now.

[mudyez]

another Q:

Usually a player needs a year to really fit with the Spurs play. Will Jax adapt faster to our system, coz he has been here so long before?

and one more:

Is Malik Rose still available too? ;)

[ManuTastic]

Great write up. I'm still puzzled about the money though: if Timmy's next contract cancels out any upside to amnestying RJ, why doesn't it cancel out any upside to getting rid of RJ's contract with this trade? Unless you mean it only saves the owners money, but still doesn't free up any money to help with signing players...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Great write up. I'm still puzzled about the money though: if Timmy's next contract cancels out any upside to amnestying RJ, why doesn't it cancel out any upside to getting rid of RJ's contract with this trade? Unless you mean it only saves the owners money, but still doesn't free up any money to help with signing players...

Because it saves Holt $12 million at the cost of a late 1st round pick. With the added incentive that maybe, just maybe SJax would be able to help on the court as well.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Easy and Logical to get on the Jack-wagon now but better to temper expectations. He isn't the same guy he was, NINE years ago and has regressed badly from his 2011 version if the limited stats from the Bucks are to be believed.

All things considered, he would still be better than Jefferson mentally and fit-wise, but has still got to do a lot of hard work to make the Spurs a contender.

In fact, the more important key to a title (or not) this year is who the Spurs pick from the waiver wire. Diaw seems the logical choice, but his warts in the form of extra fat is going to be a headache and so too Kaman's shortcomings if he is going to be picked up.

The Championship is still going to be a very steep climb, but RJ's departure is a big monkey off the back.

[L.I.T]

All I know is for some reason this trade makes me feel like I'm going to be watching the real Spurs play again. The team with a little edge and swagger to it.

Now bring in someone a'la Kevin Willis and I'll be expcstatic.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

All I know is for some reason this trade makes me feel like I'm going to be watching the real Spurs play again. The team with a little edge and swagger to it.

Now bring in someone a'la Kevin Willis and I'll be expcstatic.

:tu

[Beanzamillion21]

Where do you get those White, Silver, and Black headbands. Those are dope.:flag:

[lefty]

I ignored the negative points :D

[acoelho1]

Last year's loss to Memphis illustrated that we needed to get tougher and more physical and it wasn't going to happen with RJ at the starting 3 spot. Now, fast forward a year and we have added Green and Leonard to the rotation and each has brought a level of intensity lacking from last year's team short of Ginobili.

I expect Sjax to raise our intensity overall and it will be great to have another guy on the team that is not afraid in the big moments. I hope the Spurs try to sign the best defensive big man available and we will be a complete team heading into the playoffs.

[therealtruth]

hmmm.
didn't Sjax play some of the best defense against Dirk that the NBA has seen in the last decade?
ok, that was some years back, but as it stands right now, there is a very good chance that the Spurs and Mavs will meet in the first round of the PO.
did the Spurs have this in mind when they did the trade.

Dirk has gotten better and throwing a shorter guy at him no longer works.

[ginobilized]

Another high quality post, timvp!
Thanks.

Psyched to see what we get this time around with SJax

[Obstructed_View]

Do you really believe Anderson has a future here, after his agent went "off the reservation" and requested a trade? I'd like to see him workout here too, but there just doesn't appear to be much room for him and his poor showings certainly aren't helping his value.

If the Spurs could flip him, and something else, into either a low 1st round pick, or even a very high second, in the upcoming June draft, that would be great.

The way I understand it, Anderson's absolutely gone. The Spurs can't even offer him as much as other teams because they declined to pick up his option.

[Obstructed_View]

Now wheel in someone a'la Kevin Willis and I'll be expcstatic.

Fixed.

[Obstructed_View]

For later this season:


What was that whistle in the middle of the play? Why is the other team shooting a free throw?
That's called a technical foul. Stephen Jackson said something to the officials because he didn't get a call and the team is being punished for it. This will happen quite a bit more often than you're used to. The upside is that if Jackson didn't get sent into the locker room, he's probably going to play a lot harder.

[hater]

time to get another one

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2012/03/2711841.2-19437064-STEPHEN-JACKSON-2-NF-11_21_2003-436x286.jpg

[chreph]

I normally lurk and rarely post, but one intangible I don't see anyone ever mentioning is his umm... fiery nature. I'm not calling Jack an "enforcer" on the team but, with his past reputation, it would make sense to assume that, come playoff time, maybe opposing players will think twice before laying flagrant/hard fouls on Tony and Manu while he is on the floor. RJ wasn't going to make anyone think twice about laying out a Spurs player but, with Jack on the court, I don't see anybody going "Najera" on us with the chance that things could escalate quickly and I think there is some value in that.

[Obstructed_View]

I normally lurk and rarely post, but one intangible I don't see anyone ever mentioning is his umm... fiery nature. I'm not calling Jack an "enforcer" on the team but, with his past reputation, it would make sense to assume that, come playoff time, maybe opposing players will think twice before laying flagrant/hard fouls on Tony and Manu while he is on the floor. RJ wasn't going to make anyone think twice about laying out a Spurs player but, with Jack on the court, I don't see anybody going "Najera" on us with the chance that things could escalate quickly and I think there is some value in that.

If they thought they could get him thrown out of the game or suspended for the rest of the series, they might be MORE apt to try to start something. Not saying you're wrong, but having an emotional guy is a double-edged sword.

[FromWayDowntown]

We'll see where this goes, but I'm hopeful that the many past sins on Stephen Jackson's ledger are things that came up more because he didn't respect his teammates/coaches in other situations and that his animus towards them was informed by the fact that he's been inside the Spurs situation and knows what a good situation should be. He's undoubtedly acted the fool at times, but he seems to be genuinely excited for the opportunity to be back with the Spurs, seems to feel that SA is where he belongs, and will be motivated by the chance to rewrite some past wrongs.


Good to have you back but I think while its great having Duncan Manu and Parker in the locker room, they aren't super effective as leaders either.

Manu is great in game but is way too mellow off court. Duncan is a man a few words and Parker only recently started to assert himself. That leaves pop, who while a great leader can be blinded by his own stubbornness.

I'm not sure that I buy the the lack of leadership angle. Leadership isn't a function of being vocal. Tim has always been a leader on the floor; he just manages his teammates by talking to them supportively rather than dressing them down when things go wrong. It hasn't taken much over the last few years to see Tim take a teammate aside during a game and make a point or address a mistake.

Even if you don't think that's leadership, when Jack was here the first time, there was a lot of talk by him about the positive influence of the quiet leadership by example that was all around him. It's hard to bitch about your role when David Robinson isn't bitching about his role. And I think he's seen how Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili have become stars or superstars who are team-first guys. Jack's undoubtedly an emotional guy who wants to win and believes that winning will happen more often than not when he's participating. With that said, I think it's hard to be too vocal about those things when others who have much longer NBA resumes than you do are all team guys.

So, there's a thread of leadership that runs from 2002-03 to 2011-12 without need for yelling at people. I don't think there's any doubt that he respects all three of them and Pop as well.


For later this season:


What was that whistle in the middle of the play? Why is the other team shooting a free throw?
That's called a technical foul. Stephen Jackson said something to the officials because he didn't get a call and the team is being punished for it. This will happen quite a bit more often than you're used to. The upside is that if Jackson didn't get sent into the locker room, he's probably going to play a lot harder.

Good point.

[jag]

You guys severely underrate the influence Duncan Manu Parker and Pop have on this team.

Guys that could act up, don't, or they're gone. Immediately...

The man. The myth. The legend.


The T Park.

[DBMethos]

Great writeup as usual, timvp. :tu

One more question (and perhaps the most important one): Will having SJax back bring out a little gangster in the Red Rocket?

http://distilleryimage8.instagram.com/1a82bf56674e11e1b9f1123138140926_7.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

call him whatever you want

he did put the gsw and bobcats into the playoffs

[FromWayDowntown]

It was only two years ago that he received a 5th place vote for MVP.

[TheSullyMonster]

Came hoping you would post something like this, so thanks timvp.

[Mark in Austin]

Funny quote from Sam Smith on why Chicago should have gone after Jack (and another thing to keep in mind if the Spurs are fortunate enough to make it back to the finals):

"The one guy I might have taken a shot at was Stephen Jackson because LeBron, I believe, thinks Jackson is nuts and isn’t aggressive against him. "

[drpill]

Great post, as usual, timvp. The return of Buckets has me more excited about this team than I have been in a long time. Spurs have been playing mostly great all year but this is exactly the kind of infusion of attitude and ability they need to take it to the next level. I find it hard to imagine SJax not fitting in with this group, and if everybody can gel quickly I think the team chemistry is going to be through the roof. I think it's no surprise he played his best game of the year vs the Spurs, he probably didn't want to look bad in front of Pop and Timmy. Jax's energy and enthusiasm are contagious and everyone on the team stands to benefit.

[MannyIsGod]

Amazing the Spurs could go into 2013 with the exact same 12 players. 9 already under contract and Duncan, Green, and James Anderson virtual locks to be resigned.

I like the chemistry for 2013 if this happens. I think they can seriously contend for it all in June 2013.

Do you even follow the Spurs? Anderson is a lock to be resigned?

[jag]

Funny quote from Sam Smith on why Chicago should have gone after Jack (and another thing to keep in mind if the Spurs are fortunate enough to make it back to the finals):

"The one guy I might have taken a shot at was Stephen Jackson because LeBron, I believe, thinks Jackson is nuts and isn’t aggressive against him. "

That's because he is nuts.

[GSH]

I'm not sure that I buy the the lack of leadership angle. Leadership isn't a function of being vocal. Tim has always been a leader on the floor; he just manages his teammates by talking to them supportively rather than dressing them down when things go wrong. It hasn't taken much over the last few years to see Tim take a teammate aside during a game and make a point or address a mistake.

Even if you don't think that's leadership, when Jack was here the first time, there was a lot of talk by him about the positive influence of the quiet leadership by example that was all around him. It's hard to bitch about your role when David Robinson isn't bitching about his role. And I think he's seen how Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili have become stars or superstars who are team-first guys. Jack's undoubtedly an emotional guy who wants to win and believes that winning will happen more often than not when he's participating. With that said, I think it's hard to be too vocal about those things when others who have much longer NBA resumes than you do are all team guys.

So, there's a thread of leadership that runs from 2002-03 to 2011-12 without need for yelling at people. I don't think there's any doubt that he respects all three of them and Pop as well.


Tim is, and always has been, a leader - he's just not a chest-pounder. I've always loved the fact that he never heads to the locker room until after every other player walks past and gets a head-rub. And if you watch him while he's on the bench, he looks like everybody's big brother that they look up to. But he's not just a cheerleader - we've all seen him chew out guys on the team when they really screw up, or when they aren't putting out the effort.

As for Stephen Jackson, and Tim/Tony/Manu's influence on him, to (hopefully) keep him from being a distraction? I read an article this morning that reminded me that there will be a different, bigger influence that will help keep Jackson from getting too carried away with himself. Read the clip below, and see if you can picture it happening in San Antonio:

McMillan, the consummate professional, watched as Felton showed up out of shape -- by his own admission -- to training campfollowing the lockout. McMillan listened as Felton publicly expressed frustration with him and his system despite instructions to address the issues man- to-man behind closed doors. McMillan benched Felton to give him some "time" -- like a father might do to a kindergartner -- and then begrudgingly reinserted him into the starting lineup after it became clear Crawford wasn't the answer at point guard. Felton's personality has been so toxic that one national report accused him of leading a "mutiny" with Crawford against McMillan while a newspaper writer referred to him as a "cancer and a crappy player." [Note: it could just as easily have been an article about DeMarcus Cousins and Paul Westphal.]

My opinion - the biggest reason Jackson won't get as crazy here as he has elsewhere is because he won't have any influence himself. Pop and Buford aren't going to be split over how to handle a problem child. They aren't going to cave in to fan pressure. And there aren't any young, stupid players here that would join into a player mutiny. They say it takes two to tango, and if SJax starts any of his stupid shit here, he'll be doing it all alone.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

great stuff as usual Timvp :tu
an excellent, level-headed look at this great deal the Spurs pulled off.


Getting cap space this summer looks also way less interesting than a week ago.

Dwight Howard not hitting free agency has a ripple effect on a lot of teams. For example, Spurs first target next summer could have been Brook Lopez. With Howard staying in Orlando, Nets will hold into Lopez.

Spurs could have been too be interested in making a run in Batum but Blazers have traded away Wallace. Batum looks like a big piece of their future.

Great points Bruno :tu
this really is a fantastic post. My greatest aspiration was Hibbert, buuuuuut that was probably a pipe dream all along anyway. Definitely never wanted Lopez. Batum wouldve been nice, but redundant with Leonard to some degree. Either way great call pointing out how cap space this summer no longer wouldve given us as much to be excited about.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Funny quote from Sam Smith on why Chicago should have gone after Jack (and another thing to keep in mind if the Spurs are fortunate enough to make it back to the finals):

"The one guy I might have taken a shot at was Stephen Jackson because LeBron, I believe, thinks Jackson is nuts and isn’t aggressive against him. "

great find Mark :tu

A week ago no one was scared of the Spurs. The Memphis series really was the biggest blow in making us look weak/beatable/entirely not frightening.

What this team needed was a little dose of crazy, a little dose of swagger, and we just got Buckets of both :toast

[angelbelow]

I'm not sure that I buy the the lack of leadership angle. Leadership isn't a function of being vocal. Tim has always been a leader on the floor; he just manages his teammates by talking to them supportively rather than dressing them down when things go wrong. It hasn't taken much over the last few years to see Tim take a teammate aside during a game and make a point or address a mistake.

Even if you don't think that's leadership, when Jack was here the first time, there was a lot of talk by him about the positive influence of the quiet leadership by example that was all around him. It's hard to bitch about your role when David Robinson isn't bitching about his role. And I think he's seen how Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili have become stars or superstars who are team-first guys. Jack's undoubtedly an emotional guy who wants to win and believes that winning will happen more often than not when he's participating. With that said, I think it's hard to be too vocal about those things when others who have much longer NBA resumes than you do are all team guys.

So, there's a thread of leadership that runs from 2002-03 to 2011-12 without need for yelling at people. I don't think there's any doubt that he respects all three of them and Pop as well.


I didn't say there is a lack of leadership. I think the big 3 are really good leaders and personalities to have around. I just don't think they're great or world class.

My point was that the Spurs have shown that they rather ship troubled players out then try and fix the problem internally. That's not a bad thing either, but there are players/coaches (obviously rare) out there who have the ability to motivate the lackadaisical and straighten out the clowns with talent.

But that's not the style of leadership that Duncan, Manu, and Parker have. But don't get me wrong because I'm happy with who they are and I'm not asking for an overhaul here.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I think with the Spurs, it's not about "straightening out" and "motivating". I think the Spurs players, coaches, and management are quite direct about what they expect, but just in a factual, direct, emphatic way, not in an emotional or motivational way. They expect their players to act like men, to do their jobs the best they can, and to, as Popovich famously says, get over themselves. They offer this opportunity to be part of something good, they will coach and give advice, but if the player doesn't want to make the effort for whatever reason, they say, "OK, well, good luck at your next stop, no hard feelings". No one can ever claim they were confused about what was expected of them.

That is the Spurs way.

Someone I respect a lot once told me "You can only do your half of a relationship". I think that applies to this situation too.

[Koolaid_Man]

....reserving this spot in case I want to add more questions, tbh........


hey baby....BAM

Kobe eats Jackson's ass..check it out career wise guarding each other head to head ( no homo)

Kobe - 29 pts

Jackson - 15 pts

It's even worse in the play-offs:

Kobe 32 pts

Jackson 8 pts

Last game they played each other:

Kobe 28 pts

Jackson 8 pts..
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/statusicon/user_online.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/buttons/quote.gif (http://spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5701663)

[FromWayDowntown]

I think with the Spurs, it's not about "straightening out" and "motivating". I think the Spurs players, coaches, and management are quite direct about what they expect, but just in a factual, direct, emphatic way, not in an emotional or motivational way. They expect their players to act like men, to do their jobs the best they can, and to, as Popovich famously says, get over themselves. They offer this opportunity to be part of something good, they will coach and give advice, but if the player doesn't want to make the effort for whatever reason, they say, "OK, well, good luck at your next stop, no hard feelings". No one can ever claim they were confused about what was expected of them.

That is the Spurs way.

Someone I respect a lot once told me "You can only do your half of a relationship". I think that applies to this situation too.

This.

Plus, I don't know that we're privy to all of the efforts to try to bring a knucklehead in line; what we see is that guys who act like knuckleheads are treated like knuckleheads and, if it doesn't change, they find new places to play. Assuming that nothing goes on behind the scenes to try to change that -- that there aren't efforts to fix the problem internally first -- strikes me as a guess more than a fact, but I'll readily admit that my counter is equally an assumption.

Frankly, I think we don't see a lot of knucklehead problems with the Spurs because, by and large, the homework on those issues is done well in advance of acquiring such a knucklehead.

Finally, I think it's a bit odd to say that Tim Duncan isn't a world class leader among basketball players. I don't think too many in the NBA question his leadership and many -- superstars included -- aspire to lead teams the way that he does. Having the best in your profession openly aspire to emulate your style tends -- to me at least -- to prove that you are a world class leader.

[Obstructed_View]

hey baby....BAM

Kobe eats Jackson's ass..check it out career wise guarding each other head to head ( no homo)

Kobe - 29 pts

Jackson - 15 pts

It's even worse in the play-offs:

Kobe 32 pts

Jackson 8 pts

Last game they played each other:

Kobe 28 pts

Jackson 8 pts..
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/statusicon/user_online.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/buttons/quote.gif (http://spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5701663)

When Jack was a Spur, Kobe avearaged 31 points per game against the Spurs in five games. The Spurs won four of them. Thanks for playing.

[Koolaid_Man]

When Jack was a Spur, Kobe avearaged 31 points per game against the Spurs in five games. The Spurs won four of them. Thanks for playing.


what about head to head play-off series...

Kobe 4 the Spurs 1

or rings


Kobe 5 Duncan 4

I like this game

[Fabbs]

What was Golden State's motivation?
First of all, Jackson had burned his bridge back to Golden State after demanding a trade from the team a few years ago. When the Warriors reacquired Jackson in the Andrew Bogut trade earlier this week, there was no way they were going to bring back Jackson.

While the Warriors could have simply bought out Jackson's contract, the organization was already feeling a bit of a backlash for trading Monta Ellis for a player (Bogut) who is probably out for the rest of the season. That meant Golden State was in a position where they had to trade Jackson. And because of the large amount of money owed to him next season and his poor play this season, the market was severely limited.

By turning Jackson into Jefferson, the Warriors see it as getting a solid role player who has proven to be reliable over the years. He's also a professional who will seamlessly fit in any lockerroom. On top of that, the Warriors get a first round draft pick in a year in which they may lose their own pick (they owe it to the Jazz unless the pick is in the top seven).

Thanks for some helpful insight into Goldens possible motives.
But really, Soft Dick was their only option?
No other deals to be worked with other teams?

[Fabbs]

spout
Pretty in pink.

[Obstructed_View]

what about head to head play-off series...

Kobe 4 the Spurs 1

or rings


Kobe 5 Duncan 4

I like this game

:lol you were better off comparing Kobe to Jackson since neither of them were the best player on their championship teams.

[angelbelow]

I think with the Spurs, it's not about "straightening out" and "motivating". I think the Spurs players, coaches, and management are quite direct about what they expect, but just in a factual, direct, emphatic way, not in an emotional or motivational way. They expect their players to act like men, to do their jobs the best they can, and to, as Popovich famously says, get over themselves. They offer this opportunity to be part of something good, they will coach and give advice, but if the player doesn't want to make the effort for whatever reason, they say, "OK, well, good luck at your next stop, no hard feelings". No one can ever claim they were confused about what was expected of them.

That is the Spurs way.

Someone I respect a lot once told me "You can only do your half of a relationship". I think that applies to this situation too.


This.

Plus, I don't know that we're privy to all of the efforts to try to bring a knucklehead in line; what we see is that guys who act like knuckleheads are treated like knuckleheads and, if it doesn't change, they find new places to play. Assuming that nothing goes on behind the scenes to try to change that -- that there aren't efforts to fix the problem internally first -- strikes me as a guess more than a fact, but I'll readily admit that my counter is equally an assumption.

Frankly, I think we don't see a lot of knucklehead problems with the Spurs because, by and large, the homework on those issues is done well in advance of acquiring such a knucklehead.


Yeah that's my point. Spurs are more likely to show someone the door as opposed to reconstructing the player. Its effective as long as you have a winning organization. I don't think Duncan is a world class leader but his resume is and definitely speaks for itself. So Duncan not being vocal doesn't really matter because of the environment that the Spurs have established.

[20beastie45]

Great read

[angelbelow]

DaTrillStak5


Yes playing tommorow guys. So excited.