How’s that GM Bailout working out...

[Sportcamper]

Great! Forget paying back the U.S. Tax payers…So glad we are creating jobs for Australian workers…Hope...

GM to invest $1 billion in Australia operations

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-invest-1-billion-australia-051310556.html

[TeyshaBlue]

You know GM has a pretty serious market share in Australia, right?

Global companies do that.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You know GM has a pretty serious market share in Australia, right?

Global companies do that.

I really believe she didn't know that.

[TeyshaBlue]

Could be. Everybody should watch Mad Max at least once.:lol

[Sportcamper]

You are all a bunch of sheep! Payback your bailout and invest in the USA…Like that’s ever going to happen…

[George Gervin's Afro]

You are all a bunch of sheep! Payback your bailout and invest in the USA…Like that’s ever going to happen…

Are you saying that Obama should make them invest their money in the US?

[Sportcamper]

Their money?…Boy you are thick….:sleep
Government Motors…

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Are you saying that Obama should make them invest their money in the US?

Their lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Their money?…Boy you are thick….:sleep
Government Motors…

So you think the bailout should force GM to reinvest exlcusively within our borders..

got it

[TeyshaBlue]

You are all a bunch of sheep! Payback your bailout and invest in the USA…Like that’s ever going to happen…

GM is a global corporation. Investments will be made worldwide. BTW, there's been plenty of recent investment in GM's operation state-side.

From a 2 second Google search:

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/May/0510_bigbang

[George Gervin's Afro]

Their lol

I didn't realize the govt owned 100% of GM... oh wait they don't..lol

[Sportcamper]

From a 2 second Google search...Not that it will help lead the sheep in the right direction...

As of February 2012 General Motors has only paid back Uncle Sam $26-billion of the $49.5-billion in bailout money they received. They also accumulated $13-billion in stock losses and reported record profits of $7.6-billion in 2011. This means that for every $1 of profit, the U.S. government paid $4. Taxpayers also spent another $27-billion to buy General Motors stock and currently own about 30% of the company in stock. 47,500 blue-collar workers will be receiving profit sharing checks of up to $7,000.

http://www.kgbanswers.com/how-much-money-does-general-motors-owe-the-united-states-federal-government/18816275#ixzz1praOsuyy

[TeyshaBlue]

From a 2 second Google search...Not that it will help lead the sheep in the right direction...

As of February 2012 General Motors has only paid back Uncle Sam $26-billion of the $49.5-billion in bailout money they received. They also accumulated $13-billion in stock losses and reported record profits of $7.6-billion in 2011. This means that for every $1 of profit, the U.S. government paid $4. Taxpayers also spent another $27-billion to buy General Motors stock and currently own about 30% of the company in stock. 47,500 blue-collar workers will be receiving profit sharing checks of up to $7,000.

http://www.kgbanswers.com/how-much-money-does-general-motors-owe-the-united-states-federal-government/18816275#ixzz1praOsuyy

You were bitching about GM investing overseas. I simply showed you that they invest stateside too. Make up your mind.

[Sportcamper]

The issue is spending billions of dollars of the USA taxpayer’s money in foreign countries while we the tax payers are on the hook for it all…GM takes no risk whatsoever…

Q-If Government Motors is doing so well why wont they payback their bail out?
A- Because the sheep believe everything government tells them to believe….

[boutons_deux]

All the auto bailout numbers are chump change compared to the many $100Bs taxpayers dumped on the financial sector, but you never here whiners here, nor Fox, going on about those $100Bs.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The issue is spending billions of dollars of the USA taxpayer’s money in foreign countries while we the tax payers are on the hook for it all…GM takes no risk whatsoever…

Q-If Government Motors is doing so well why wont they payback their bail out?
A- Because the sheep believe everything government tells them to believe….

or B- you have no idea what you are talking about

[TeyshaBlue]

You seem to think that there are two piles of money to spend and GM is dipping exclusively into the taxpayer pile of money. This simplistic rendering (certainly not a deductive logic chain) is flawed from conception.

[CosmicCowboy]

$4 gas is gonna kick GM's ass...These gas spikes always kill sales in trucks and SUV's and that's where GM gets the bulk of their profit in the US. They are already offering big incentives and 0% financing for 72 months.

[Sportcamper]

This simplistic rendering (certainly not a deductive logic chain) is flawed from conception.

Now I feel as though I am arguing with Mr. Spock...:lol

All us folks (who don’t believe what Government tells us to believe) are saying is that Government Motors should payback their bailout before they go spending billions of tax payers money in foreign countries…Its like taking a loan from your parents for a down payment on a house and then going out & purchasing a new car before you settled your debt….

[clambake]

$4 gas is gonna kick GM's ass...These gas spikes always kill sales in trucks and SUV's and that's where GM gets the bulk of their profit in the US. They are already offering big incentives and 0% financing for 72 months.

just got back from looking at a gmc 4x4 duramax 6.6 diesel turbo, i think.

does that sound familiar?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm currently looking for a new truck (surprisingly, specifically looking at chevys since IMHO they still have the best gas engines/transmissions and warranties) and there are over 1000 currently in stock at the dealers just in San Antonio.

[CosmicCowboy]

just got back from looking at a gmc 4x4 duramax 6.6 diesel turbo, i think.

does that sound familiar?

That duramax/allison is a nice combination but I just can't justify it. Diesel is stupid expensive and I don't tow that many heavy trailers. I'm even thinking of downsizing into a crew cab 1500 4X4. If I need to pull something really heavy I have one tons at the shop I can use.

[clambake]

i didn't get a chance to get all the specs.

guy was too anxious to sell me a truck. i even told him to remain calm.

[CosmicCowboy]

i didn't get a chance to get all the specs.

guy was too anxious to sell me a truck. i even told him to remain calm.

That duramax is a hell of a stout truck. A buddy of mine pulls a 6 horse slant with a huge living quarters on it with one...don't know how much that bad boy weighs loaded but it's almost 40 feet long.

[Sportcamper]

If gas goes to 5 dollars a gallon come to Orange or Burbank CA…We have lots of ka-boys out here… (Not real cowboys)…Who purchase 50k trucks then add 20k in accessories…Big tires, lift kits, chrome brush guards, DVD, Sound systems…There were 100’s for sale, the owners just asking to take over payments…If I wouldn’t feel so ridiculous driving such a monstrosity to StarBucs for my morning Carmel Macchiato I would I bought one….

[clambake]

That duramax is a hell of a stout truck. A buddy of mine pulls a 6 horse slant with a huge living quarters on it with one...don't know how much that bad boy weighs loaded but it's almost 40 feet long.

pretty decent ground clearance from the factory already built in.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Now I feel as though I am arguing with Mr. Spock...:lol

All us folks (who don’t believe what Government tells us to believe) are saying is that Government Motors should payback their bailout before they go spending billions of tax payers money in foreign countries…Its like taking a loan from your parents for a down payment on a house and then going out & purchasing a new car before you settled your debt….

So if they can't make a profit how are they going to pay us back? If they go bankrupt we get nothing..so shouldn't they be allowed to invest so they can pay us back?

The govt said they still owe us money.. is the govt lying about this?

actually a better anology would be your parents loan you money and before you fully pay them back you invest in your home... you still continue to pay them back... why is this hard for you to comprehend? sleepy?

[clambake]

If gas goes to 5 dollars a gallon come to Orange or Burbank CA…We have lots of ka-boys out here… (Not real cowboys)…Who purchase 50k trucks then add 20k in accessories…Big tires, lift kits, chrome brush guards, DVD, Sound systems…There were 100’s for sale, the owners just asking to take over payments…If I wouldn’t feel so ridiculous driving such a monstrosity to StarBucs for my morning Carmel Macchiato I would I bought one….

i wouldn't do any of that shit on a car or truck.

[CosmicCowboy]

i wouldn't do any of that shit on a car or truck.

Eh, I usually put a brush guard and steps on mine...the brush guard keeps pigs/deer from fucking up the truck when you hit em.

[clambake]

Eh, I usually put a brush guard and steps on mine...the brush guard keeps pigs/deer from fucking up the truck when you hit em.

gonna use my truck to plow down lamar odom. i want his face print right on the steel.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Eh, I usually put a brush guard and steps on mine...the brush guard keeps pigs/deer from fucking up the truck when you hit em.

that's what I need to do to my Nissan

[Sportcamper]

i wouldn't do any of that sht on a car or truck.

Some folks like big tires, lift kits, chrome brush guards, DVD w/ navigation and Sound systems…Some folks like a big pile of rattle snake rattles in the coffee holder…I don’t judge…

[TeyshaBlue]

Now I feel as though I am arguing with Mr. Spock...:lol

All us folks (who don’t believe what Government tells us to believe) are saying is that Government Motors should payback their bailout before they go spending billions of tax payers money in foreign countries…Its like taking a loan from your parents for a down payment on a house and then going out & purchasing a new car before you settled your debt….

There's a little problem called profitablitly. They actually have to earn money to repay money.

Just sitting on a pile of cash while letting the company's product line stagnate, which was part of what caused it's bankruptcy to begin with, is not a viable way to repay a debt.

[clambake]

Some folks like big tires, lift kits, chrome brush guards, DVD w/ navigation and Sound systems…Some folks like a big pile of rattle snake rattles in the coffee holder…I don’t judge…

:lol

[TeyshaBlue]

gonna use my truck to plow down lamar odom. i want his face print right on the steel.

That would double his rebound total from last night's game.:depressed

[TeyshaBlue]

just got back from looking at a gmc 4x4 duramax 6.6 diesel turbo, i think.

does that sound familiar?

Elitist!:ihit

[clambake]

Elitist!:ihit

soon, i'll make you a great deal on a brand new, slightly damaged truck.

[Drachen]

Sportcamper... do you have a loan for a house/boat/car/anything?


Now, do you have any money in savings/retirement/etc?

If so, FOR SHAME! You should be taking all of that money and dumping it onto your loans.

[Sportcamper]

George- What you don’t get is that Government Motors continues the reckless behavior that got them in trouble in the first place…Over extending themselves, bonuses for executives and now the factory workers, too many car models and huge investments in countries that could care less if they go belly up…

Take care of your financial obligations to the USA taxpayers
and THEN continue the reckless behavior…

[TeyshaBlue]

Their model count is actually waay down from the last decade. Remember, Olds, Saturn and Pontiac? Adios Muchacho.
And Saab to boot.

GM seems to be reacting to market trends much quicker, tbh, and their model developement cycle is much quicker now that they have embraced the global architecture design route. I don't see much in the way of recklessness with GM these days and I'm, at least, a very interested spectator.

[boutons_deux]

Chevy's model count seems to be way up.

[TeyshaBlue]

Their domestic small car lineup is really expanding.

[TeyshaBlue]

Spark, Cruze, Volt, and Sonic. I can't remember a time when they had this many small cars offered. Similarly, these have dissappeared from the other divisions although Buick does have a model based on the same platform as the Cruze.

[boutons_deux]

And they have sucky gas mileage for small cars.

Small cars should be approaching 40 mpg.

[TeyshaBlue]

Sonic - 40mpg
Cruze - 42mpg
Spark - 44 mpg
Volt - A bazillion mpg.

Not exactly sucky, dude.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sonic - 40mpg
Cruze - 42mpg
Spark - 44 mpg
Volt - A bazillion mpg.

Not exactly sucky, dude.

The problem is, they relatively speaking don't make shit on those cars...maybe a thousand or two, unlike the tens of thousands they make on full size trucks and suv's. I still say $4 gas is gonna kick GM's ass just like it did in 2008.

[TeyshaBlue]

I think their margin is going to improve on smaller cars now that they are doing a much better job of leveraging their global platforms and refining the design process. I'd wait and see before pronouncing death just yet.....

[TeyshaBlue]

A gateway is just as important as a margin....

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-13/detroit-finds-small-is-beautiful-as-compact-buyers-return

[Wild Cobra]

You know GM has a pretty serious market share in Australia, right?

Global companies do that.
I'll bet it's the only operation making a decent profit right now.

[Wild Cobra]

Sonic - 40mpg
Cruze - 42mpg
Spark - 44 mpg
Volt - A bazillion mpg.

Not exactly sucky, dude.
Any idea how well the Volt works when you need to use the defrosters?

[TeyshaBlue]

I'll bet it's the only operation making a decent profit right now.

That's a bad bet.

[TeyshaBlue]

Any idea how well the Volt works when you need to use the defrosters?

Yeah, it will work just fine.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's a bad bet.

X2

GM sells a car or truck in China every 12 seconds.

[Wild Cobra]

Bad bets...

Probably why I don't gamble much.

Are they really making a decent profit in China? High sales isn't automatically high profits.

Anything like this:

Holden owners post record profit (http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/28339768/holden-owners-post-record-profit/)

It does say "Soaring sales in China," but nothing tangible.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course, those cars are built in china by chinamen.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah, it will work just fine.
Really?

I have a hard time sometimes getting enough flowing heat to keep my windows clear on cold humid days with my sedan. I have no problem with my Z28, but my sedan's 4 banger isn't as good. Yesterday it snowed again.... Damn, snow all over the Northwest, after the Equinox. We set records. Great for skiing... Timberline lodge had 38" yesterday. Didn't want to drive the car with fat tires, and the sedans' defrosters were just barely adequate.

How well would the Volt do?

[Wild Cobra]

Of course, those cars are built in china by chinamen.
Great for their economy... What about ours?

[CosmicCowboy]

Great for their economy... What about ours?

Well, they got to bring the money they made back to the US tax free and then give it out in bonuses to the UAW.

[Drachen]

Of course, those cars are built in china by chinamen.

Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American Please.



Also, to respond to WCs question, they are selling a shit ton of high margin buicks over there. It is apparently THE status car in China.

[Drachen]

Well, they got to bring the money they made back to the US tax free and then give it out in bonuses to the UAW.

so .... good for the economy?

[DMX7]

Great! Forget paying back the U.S. Tax payers…So glad we are creating jobs for Australian workers…Hope...

GM to invest $1 billion in Australia operations

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-invest-1-billion-australia-051310556.html

You pay back the U.S. tax pay by making money.

[spursncowboys]

Great for their economy... What about ours?

The more money china makes, the more bonds they can buy from us so we can keep making social programs to "help"

[Wild Cobra]

Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American Please.



Also, to respond to WCs question, they are selling a shit ton of high margin buicks over there. It is apparently THE status car in China.
Really?

Are you saying we have USA Asian Americans working at the GM plant in Shanghai?

That's quite a distance to go for work.

[coyotes_geek]

Great! Forget paying back the U.S. Tax payers…So glad we are creating jobs for Australian workers…Hope...

GM to invest $1 billion in Australia operations

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-invest-1-billion-australia-051310556.html

It's a shitty deal for taxpayers, but it's the deal our government made and GM has honored their end of that agreement. GM has paid back all that they're obligated to and can spend their cash however they see fit.

[CosmicCowboy]

Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American Please.





:lmao

They call themselves Asian American in China?

[Drachen]

Sigh...


I took a shot and wasn't too confident of success so I knew it was a risk.

Its a bit of a cult classic among people around my age.

OYOzUHnPJvU

[Sportcamper]

They call themselves Asian American in China?

I don't think Cosmic saw our movie...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-adyUGXgV1kQ/TnucvIechLI/AAAAAAAAFS0/01z8sRFN-sY/s1600/The%2BBig%2BLebowski.jpg

[elbamba]

General Motors pushing U.S. to sell stake: report

The Treasury Department is resisting General Motors' push for the government to sell off its stake in the auto maker, The Wall Street Journal reports. Following a $50 billion bailout in 2009, the U.S. taxpayers now own almost 27% of the company. But the newspaper said GM executives are now chafing at that, saying it hurts the company's reputation and its ability to attract top talent due to pay restrictions. Earlier this year, GM presented a plan to repurchase 200 million of the 500 million shares the U.S. holds with the balance being sold via a public offering. But officials at the Treasury Department were not interested as selling now would lead to a multibillion dollar loss for the government, the newspaper noted.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/general-motors-pushing-us-to-sell-stake-report-2012-09-17

[coyotes_geek]

If GM really wanted to restore their reputation they'd be offering to buy back the government's shares at a price that would allow the taxpayers to at least break even.

[RandomGuy]

If GM really wanted to restore their reputation they'd be offering to buy back the government's shares at a price that would allow the taxpayers to at least break even.

I agree.

I would also note that the point that management said was that it is a bit hard to get the money, simply because the goverment ownership is becoming a drag, or so the management claims.

Sort of a self-fullfilling prophesy/vicious cycle. "we can't make money because of the reputational hit from being partly goverment owned, and the government won't sell its stake, because they don't want to take a financial hit"

[CosmicCowboy]

A New York federal judge may rule imminently on a case that could reverse the General Motors (GM) bailout and send the company back into bankruptcy, according to sources close to the case.

At issue is a backroom deal hatched by GM to fulfill the Obama administration’s demand for a quick bankruptcy, draining the automaker of nearly all of its cash on hand and leaving it in worse shape than it was when it collapsed in 2009.

One condition of GM’s bailout was to shore up its overseas subsidiaries. On the eve of entering bankruptcy, the company cut a $367 million “lock-up agreement” with several major hedge funds to prevent GM Canada from failing. The agreement ensured that GM could spin-off its liabilities to “old GM,” while using a multi-billion dollar bailout to create a new company.

All of that could be reversed if bankruptcy Judge Robert Gerber reopens the process and rules in favor of old GM trustees, who are suing the hedge funds at the center of the lockout agreement.

“In this particular situation, there’s $1.3 billion in liabilities, but that’s just what’s officially back on the table if the court rules for old GM,” said a bankruptcy expert close to the negotiations. “If those go back on the table then everything could be back on the table and [new GM] would have to address them.”

Those liabilities, which include old GM’s debt and product liabilities that pre-date bankruptcy, are valued at $30 billion, a sum that would wipe out the company’s $34.6 billion cash reserves.

Negotiators representing both sides of the case met in New York on Thursday to try to settle the suit through mediation rather than a court order.

“They’re feeling pretty good about it,” said an industry insider who spoke to one of the hedge fund negotiators on Thursday.

Gerber, the federal judge who initially approved the sale with little hesitation, now has the power to reverse the entire auto bailout. He has expressed deep frustration with the company for failing to disclose the deal, leading some to speculate that he may overturn one of President Barack Obama’s signature achievements.

“When I approved the sale agreement and entered the sale approval order I mistakenly thought that I was merely saving GM, the supply chain, and about a million jobs. It never once occurred to me, and nobody bothered to disclose, that amongst all of the assigned contracts was this lock-up agreement, if indeed it was assigned at all,” Gerber said in July.

“The judge has made it very clear that he is greatly dissatisfied with the process,” one analyst told the Washington Free Beacon in October. “He’s basically implying that GM hid it from him and that reopening the sale is a possibility.”

If Gerber takes that course the company could be forced to return the $30 billion taxpayer bailout that it received through the course of bankruptcy, on top of the new liabilities.

“It’s nice to see that GM is profitable again, but if all the liabilities come back to roost, short that stock,” the bankruptcy expert said.

A GM spokesman declined comment since the litigation is pending.

The Canadian and American governments played vital roles in the deal and pushed GM to negotiate as quickly as possible.

“Officials from the U.S. and Canada were very much involved—they were in the building when the deal was being negotiated,” an insider familiar with the deal said in October.

The Treasury Department, which oversaw the auto bailout, did not return emails for comment.

The company is taking the possibility of a negative ruling from Gerber very seriously. GM attorneys filed court documents saying that the lawsuit “could create a chaotic situation for GM Canada, spawn new litigation in other forums, and potentially provide a windfall to the noteholders.”

The bankruptcy expert said if the two sides cannot come to an agreement on Thursday, Gerber could preside over one of the most historic rulings in bankruptcy court history.

“This has tremendous implications for future of American business and bankruptcy precedent,” he said. “It means more than just GM—this is the rule of law and how creditors are treated in the United States legal system.”

[leemajors]

http://jalopnik.com/5965170/how-will-gm-ever-get-rid-of-all-those-pickup-trucks

Not selling many trucks.

[CosmicCowboy]

They are pricing themselves right out of the market. Shit, a new hard loaded truck is $55,000-$65,000. Fucking ridiculous.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's why I bought a certified pre-owned one this time. Sweet ride for less than half the price. I have probably bought my last "new" vehicle.

[boutons_deux]

They are pricing themselves right out of the market. Shit, a new hard loaded truck is $55,000-$65,000. Fucking ridiculous.

what's the equivalent Ford or GMC truck cost?

[TeyshaBlue]

what's the equivalent Ford or GMC truck cost?

Bout the same, or in the case of GMC, higher.

I never understood why GM killed Pontiac but kept GMC. Stupid move. One of many.

[CosmicCowboy]

what's the equivalent Ford or GMC truck cost?

I was bitching about truck prices in general. They all rape truck buyers but Ford and Chrysler are giving bigger buyer incentives than GM.

[TeyshaBlue]

Incentives distort the hell out of retail analysis.

[Sportcamper]

They are pricing themselves right out of the market. A new hard loaded truck is $55,000-$65,000.

The Local Ford dealer sells every plain Jane or work truck F-150 they get in…I think this is good news for pickup truck buyers who just need a vehicle for house hold chores…In 2009 it was nearly impossible to find a F-150 that did not have Navigation, back up cameras, Sony DVD, leather etc…Hoping for the return of the economical 300 CI inline six cylinder with a Borg Warner T-19…

[MannyIsGod]

50k for a new truck? :lol Holy shit. Glad I never felt the need to have a big gas guzler.

[boutons_deux]

50k for a new truck? :lol Holy shit. Glad I never felt the need to have a big gas guzler.

drugstore cowboys who spend $50K+ on a show truck shouldn't bitch about the mileage

[Sportcamper]

50k for a new truck? :lol Glad I never felt the need to have a big gas guzler.

There are thousands of Ka-Boys out here in LA that buy these things...(Taken from Vista Fords website)
2013 Ford F-150 Platinum
$54,685

2013 Ford F-250 Platinum
$64,050

[boutons_deux]

well, how is that GM Bailout working out?

:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Changed my mind and bought a 2015 2500HD LTZ Z71. Sweet fucking ride. Leather, 12 way power seats heated and cooled. 12 speaker kickass stereo and all the built in voice command electronics and touch screen. Fuck it. I wanted it and I can afford it. Gas is cheap. I'm doing my patriotic best to burn up all those nasty hydrocarbons.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2eyjq5y.jpg