Obama betrayal on open microphone

[GSH]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-russia-after-my-election-i-have-more-flexibility_634473.html

It's pretty clear that he has plans to do things that would prevent him from being re-elected if he did them now. Poland and the Czech Republic are seriously rattled. http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/obamas-hint-to-medvedev-rattles-poland But, hey, who needs friends or allies?

Later in the day, when asked by a reporter for a comment, the President said, "It's clear that the Armed Services Subcommittee reacted foolishly. I'll invite them for a beer." He then went on to say, "If I had a country, it would look like Russia."

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Betrayal? Seriously?

[GSH]

Betrayal? Seriously?

Poland and the Czech Republic sure think so. Educate yourself before making comments like that. Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?

Obviously not. Leave the grownup conversations to the grownups.

[DMX7]

You don't give a shit about Poland or the Czech Republic -- just about Obama ankle biting.

[boutons_deux]

repugs and conservative are all over this, again fabricating a controversy, that they will ride for months.

Hussein's language is very generic, so rags like WS read into it all kinds of sinister stuff. ankle biters.

[GSH]

repugs and conservative are all over this, again fabricating a controversy, that they will ride for months.

Hussein's language is very generic, so rags like WS read into it all kinds of sinister stuff. ankle biters.

If it isn't from Alternet or Huffington, it isn't true.

Don't mind me, Boutons. I'm here in Victoria, trying to buy some oceanfront property. You fucking loon.

[GSH]

You don't give a shit about Poland or the Czech Republic -- just about Obama ankle biting.


LOL - why bother to educate yourself when you can just throw out talking points? That way you can reject any sort of reason or rational thought. Just jam your head in the sand and show your ass.

For the record, Beaver, Poland and the Czech Republic are extremely strategic areas. You may not know it - Russia always has.

[Bartleby]

Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?


Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?He's not going to educate himself about that.

[GSH]

Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?

You mean besides sharing hit-to-kill technology, and giving them velocity at burnout information about our missiles? You mean besides going back on promises for cooperating on missile defense with Poland and the CR?

But none of that is important, is it? Not important to you, I guess, since you don't have a clue what it even means. So, naturally, go on the attack against someone who does. You moonbats are so pathetically predictable.

And did you even read the article. Kind of hard to deny what Obama is saying. Unless you just don't want to.

“On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space,” Obama said, referring to newly elected Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said.



He's not going to educate himself about that.

Stick to basketball. There you're just obnoxious, but at least not totally clueless.

Or do you want to spend a few minutes ranting about Obama's nicknames?

[spursncowboys]

Poland and the Czech Republic sure think so. Educate yourself before making comments like that. Do you have any idea what he has suggested offering Russia?

Obviously not. Leave the grownup conversations to the grownups.

Once again alienating our allies and appeasing our enemies.

[ElNono]

“On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space,” Obama said, referring to newly elected Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said.

So what do you think Barry is actually saying "between the lines"?

[boutons_deux]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-russia-after-my-election-i-have-more-flexibility_634473.html

It's pretty clear that he has plans to do things that would prevent him from being re-elected if he did them now. Poland and the Czech Republic are seriously rattled. http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/obamas-hint-to-medvedev-rattles-poland But, hey, who needs friends or allies?

Later in the day, when asked by a reporter for a comment, the President said, "It's clear that the Armed Services Subcommittee reacted foolishly. I'll invite them for a beer." He then went on to say, "If I had a country, it would look like Russia."

NOTHING is clear in that generic language.

Hussein is in an election campaign, his DOMESTIC priority, and fight with the extreme activist right wing SCOTUS. Why would he want to make a major or any geopolitical moves now?

[ElNono]

You mean besides sharing hit-to-kill technology, and giving them velocity at burnout information about our missiles?

You mean the stuff that Congress explicitly forbid the administration to share? No, he won't be sharing that. You can exhale now.


You mean besides going back on promises for cooperating on missile defense with Poland and the CR?

When did he back out?

[Spurminator]

If you don't like hearing this from the President maybe you should stop contributing to the party politics that create situations where policy is dictated by election timing.

In other words, if you're a cheerleader, you're part of the problem.

[GSH]

You mean the stuff that Congress explicitly forbid the administration to share? No, he won't be sharing that. You can exhale now.

Did you read where he said he would view that part as "non-binding". Do you really think the President's comments today were unrelated to the discussions of the day?


When did he back out?

Early in his term.




Look, Nono, I'm not a big fanatical opponent of the President. People jump to a lot of conclusions, based on one comment or one thread. It's easy to dismiss someone that way, I guess.

This deal today is serious. I read enough of the transcripts to know that, unless his comments were totally unrelated to the subjects of the day, he was giving assurances to some things that he shouldn't. (Especially promises to Vladimir Putin.) And I think you're open-minded enough to look at the comments, and the context, and know that. Maybe I'm wrong.

[GSH]

If you don't like hearing this from the President maybe you should stop contributing to the party politics that create situations where policy is dictated by election timing.

In other words, if you're a cheerleader, you're part of the problem.



You decided who I am off of one thread, and concluded that it's just partisan politics. I hope you screamed as loudly as I did about things like the Patriot Act. I don't like either "side". They're all damned politicians, and you have to keep both eyes on them. If you make a deal with one, shake hands - and then count your fingers. There's not a candidate in the Republican primary that I would cheerlead for. And if one of them gets elected, I'll watch them just as closely.

This one is bad. Our missile shield technology is good enough to have people worried. It's one thing not to deploy it. It's another to give away the technology. And, yeah, it's a betrayal.

[GSH]

When did he back out?


Here, Nono. It took me about 30 seconds to find a reference to it. I'm sure I could get a long description in a couple of minutes. But if you are sincerely interested, I'm sure you will do it yourself.

"The Obama administration in 2009 rejected a plan by the George W. Bush administration to deploy long-range interceptor missiles in Eastern Europe that would be used to protect the United States from missile attacks from Iran."


It says "Eastern Europe". I know it included Poland and the Czech Republic. I don't remember anyone else being involved, but I may have forgotten. I have personal reasons for remembering those two. We had made a firm promise to deploy those interceptor missiles, and then Obama backed out. It was a serious blow to relations with two allies.

You may argue that it was the right thing to do. (I hope not.) But you can't effectively debate that it happened.

[Pelicans78]

I agree with GSH in this thread about Obama's dealing with the Russians and that ChumpDumper is obnoxious.

The problem is Romney may not be any better and Santorum is definitely dangerous.

[Winehole23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193635

[Winehole23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135188

[GSH]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193635

You're absolutely right. And you're right to point it out. I didn't see it on the first page, or I wouldn't have started this one.

Kill this thread, or at least don't post in it.

[jack sommerset]

Obama is a politician. Whatever deals obama needs to make with Russia shouldn't have to wait until he is re-elected, that's if he is re-elected. It's that simple. It sends a clear message to our citizens/voters that the USA's best interest in not what he is looking out for, it's his. It's pretty cut and dry. God bless.

"Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves."

[ElNono]

Look, Nono, I'm not a big fanatical opponent of the President. People jump to a lot of conclusions, based on one comment or one thread. It's easy to dismiss someone that way, I guess.

This deal today is serious. I read enough of the transcripts to know that, unless his comments were totally unrelated to the subjects of the day, he was giving assurances to some things that he shouldn't. (Especially promises to Vladimir Putin.) And I think you're open-minded enough to look at the comments, and the context, and know that. Maybe I'm wrong.

I posted it in the other thread, and what I take from the comments is that he's a fairly lame duck president right now, without any kind of Congress support, running a re-election campaign and in no position to sit down and negotiate something as sensitive as missile defense with a former enemy.

BTW, I think this applies to ANY president in Barry's situation. It's political suicide on a reelection year.

JMO

[ElNono]

Oh, and the US will have to sit down and negotiate with Russia. You don't walk into Europe and do as you please without expecting repercussions. Lest we forget Russia provides a huge amount of the natural gas a lot of those countries use.

[Winehole23]

You're absolutely right. And you're right to point it out. I didn't see it on the first page, or I wouldn't have started this one.

Kill this thread, or at least don't post in it.I cross-posted the relevant previous threads as a courtesy, not as a personal criticism.




(unclench when ready)

[GSH]

I cross-posted the relevant previous threads as a courtesy, not as a personal criticism.




(unclench when ready)


I appreciate the courtesy. I was serious, I wouldn't have started it if I had seen the others, and I wouldn't blame anyone for pointing that out. It messes up the forums and makes a discussion hard to follow. I know better.

And I really do hope that people will let this one die, and use one of the other threads.

[Winehole23]

if you hadn't noticed, we don't stand much on netiquette here; the forum is only very lightly moderated.

(I have no idea, actually, of who the moderators of this forum are, if there are any.)

[Winehole23]

and I noticed you don't stand much on netiquette either, GSH, so why start now?

[Winehole23]

:lol:toast

[GSH]

and I noticed you don't stand much on netiquette either, GSH, so why start now?

A man's gotta have some standards. Starting two threads on the same subject is my limit. :D

[Winehole23]

you've not shown any signs of having read through the other threads yet, so you might as well add to this one.

[spursncowboys]

Although the same topic. Completely different in every way. This one has a better feel and doesn't seem overran by the normal trolls.

[jack sommerset]

I truly believe this unfortunate mistake will cost Obama a little more than democrats would like people to think. Like I said before, it's pretty cut and dry why he commented the way he did. God bless.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You mean besides sharing hit-to-kill technology, and giving them velocity at burnout information about our missiles? You mean besides going back on promises for cooperating on missile defense with Poland and the CR?

But none of that is important, is it? Not important to you, I guess, since you don't have a clue what it even means. So, naturally, go on the attack against someone who does. You moonbats are so pathetically predictable.

And did you even read the article. Kind of hard to deny what Obama is saying. Unless you just don't want to.

“On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space,” Obama said, referring to newly elected Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said.




Stick to basketball. There you're just obnoxious, but at least not totally clueless.

Or do you want to spend a few minutes ranting about Obama's nicknames?

Moscow started chirping about the missle defense system du jour within the last few weeks and he told the Russian PM that he couldn't do anything until after the election?

Wow, you revealed that Obama is actually a politician. Brav-fucking-o!

Its not hard to figure out what hes reluctant to do: show anything that even sniffs of conciliation to the former Soviet Republic because if he were to Heritage foundation sycophants such as yourself would rail about being soft to our historical rival.

In other news, after the Russian elections were over, Russia agreed to the latest UN cease-fire in Syria.

Quite frankly, foreign policy is something that Obama and his state department can hang their hat on. The US has been instrumental but not unilateral in seeing regime change in Egypt and Libya, turned over Iraqi security to the state, and now we're involved in another multilateral action which includes the Russians with Syria. He even got lucky and intelligence services found bin-laden.

And so you post a Polish tabloid that you claim is legitimate hand wringing in Poland? That the former Warsaw Pact nation is worried about losing our favor is a bad thing?

[ChumpDumper]

This is such a load of shit. If Russia wants to occupy Poland again, it doesn't have to nuke Poland. Why bother wasting a nuke on fucking Poland? just run a few tanks in and you're golden.

[admiralsnackbar]

1- anyone who attacks a NATO-affiliated nation (like CR, or PL) will in turn be attacked by the entire NATO alliance. That's how that works. Because of this, Russia would have to be crazy to dream of invading Central Europe. Not worth the money.

2- Even assuming the "worst" and granting that the missile shield were to be moved back to Germany, the Poles/Czechs won't be sold out any more than they were being sold out prior to 2008. Remember that neither country even fucking wanted the missiles in their country in the first place, and that it was only because of the Georgian conflict and fears that Russia might go rogue that they bit the bullet and gave us the OK.

3- The US and the Poles split the cost of the missile shield. Don't think for a second that the Poles are going to let the US back out and screw them out of that without getting some big-ass economic concessions in return, which would ultimately be better for Poland than an ornamental and inactive missile shield.

4- the Iran threat (our alleged justification for moving the missiles in) has only grown since 2008. It may piss off Russia, but Russia can't do shit against NATO, and NATO has our backs (see point 1) so... that's settled.

5- Finally, there is absolutely nothing that can be inferred from the overheard in the OP except that the POTUS was blowing off the Russian president.

[Winehole23]

...