Comparative threat at detroit's forum

[manubili]

I've read this in detroit's forum. Do you agree? Hell, I don't.


"Im a cavs fan not pistons but boy do i admire them and they have a chance at winning it all lets compare the starter
parker/billups=billups better
rip/ginoblie=rip is better
bowen/prince=prince is better
sheed/dunca=duncan is better
big ben/nazr=big ben
They have a chance and they will probaly win if they play right."


Prince better than bowen? Rip better than Manu? This guy needs a reality check. He is right with billups. And he should compare also Big Ben with Rob, and that would be a hard one to decide. Honesty wins games.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I can't argue too much with that. I definetly take Prince over Bowen. He may not be quite as good defensively as Bowen, but he offers alot more offensively. As for Rip and Manu, based simply on stats, Rip is better. I do believe that Manu has a higher ceiling than Rip does. But for right now, and more importantly, for THIS team, Rip is better.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't think this warrants much discussion -- the series has played out and it will be what it ends up being. But of all fans, you'd think that Pistons fans would understand that looking at a matchup on that sort of player-by-player basis is a ridiculous way of analyzing a series. There was no doubt going into last year's Finals that the very same analysis would have heavily favored the Lakers. The Pistons, however, won because their team concept was better and, though they lacked the star power, they got all of the little things done. The individual matchups were insignificant, because it was one team versus the other.

[cmc$purs]

CAVS FAN WHO CARES ABOUT CAVS FAN :flipoff

RUN GET LEBRONZE A SPRITE :jack

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I've read this in detroit's forum. Do you agree? Hell, I don't.


"Im a cavs fan

The post lost me there.

[Sense]

I can't argue too much with that. I definetly take Prince over Bowen. He may not be quite as good defensively as Bowen, but he offers alot more offensively. As for Rip and Manu, based simply on stats, Rip is better. I do believe that Manu has a higher ceiling than Rip does. But for right now, and more importantly, for THIS team, Rip is better.



If you think Rip is better on these series than Manu you are completely wrong..


Why? Bowen... and why is Prince not better than Bowen in these series?

Because he hasn't done jack shit.... not even defensively...


Sorry you are wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

I can't argue too much with that. I definetly take Prince over Bowen. He may not be quite as good defensively as Bowen, but he offers alot more offensively. As for Rip and Manu, based simply on stats, Rip is better. I do believe that Manu has a higher ceiling than Rip does. But for right now, and more importantly, for THIS team, Rip is better.Manu has comparable stats to Rip in every catagory and surpasses him on many of those. Rip kills him in minutes played, but well, that just comes back to how damn efficent Manu is.

However, thats the only thing there I take issue with. Prince is more complete than Bowen, but not the same defender in a one on one situation. Billups is huge now, and Parker isn't up there. So yeah, I agree with that except that at best for Detroit, Manu/Rip is a wash. More than likely, it's an advantadge for the Spurs.

[easjer]

I can't argue too much with that. I definetly take Prince over Bowen. He may not be quite as good defensively as Bowen, but he offers alot more offensively. As for Rip and Manu, based simply on stats, Rip is better. I do believe that Manu has a higher ceiling than Rip does. But for right now, and more importantly, for THIS team, Rip is better.

Prince may generally be more of an offensive threat than Bowen, but clearly not in this series. And I like Tayshaun! He's had a rough post-season.

Rip/Manu is debatable. I'd take Manu anyday, because I think he got more intangibles (shudder - I did just use that word, didn't I?) and more all around to offer. But Rip's great when he's not a whiny bitch.

Otherwise . . . Billups probably is better than Tony, but I think Tony's done a decent job, better than expected, anyway. And yeah, Big Ben is better than Nazr. I don't think there is much question regarding Sheed/Duncan. Poor Sheed.

[nkdlunch]

LEBRONZE

:lmao

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I've read this in detroit's forum. Do you agree? Hell, I don't.


"Im a cavs fan not pistons but boy do i admire them and they have a chance at winning it all lets compare the starter
parker/billups=billups better
rip/ginoblie=rip is better
bowen/prince=prince is better
sheed/dunca=duncan is better
big ben/nazr=big ben
They have a chance and they will probaly win if they play right."


Prince better than bowen? Rip better than Manu? This guy needs a reality check. He is right with billups. And he should compare also Big Ben with Rob, and that would be a hard one to decide. Honesty wins games.


Well, I tried giving a second chance to what a Cavs fan could say, considering that he constantly watches playoff basketball from a non-biased point of view.

But if he spells "ginoblie-dunca-Im a cavs fan not pistons but boy do i admire them and they have a chance at winning it all lets compare the starter-probaly", how could you take that as an intelligent comment?

[Sense]

Well, I tried giving a second chance to what a Cavs fan could say, considering that he constantly watches playoff basketball from a non-biased point of view.

But if he spells "ginoblie-dunca-Im a cavs fan not pistons but boy do i admire them and they have a chance at winning it all lets compare the starter-probaly", how could you take that as an intelligent comment?


I agree....

[2centsworth]

Manu is way better than RIP. If Rip doesn't score he doesn't do much else. When Manu struggles to score he finds other ways to beat you like getting 9 assist the last game. If Rip was that type of playmaker he would have found Prince who was wide open on the last play of the game instead of jacking up a bad shot.


Billups might be the best point guard in the league.


Prince and Bruce sorta have the same role, shut people down and make timely buckets. I give the edge to Bruce, but I like Prince too.

Duncan and Rasheed- Unfortunately for Detroit Rasheed has turned himself into a guard otherwise this comparison would be much closer.

Nazr and Ben- Hasn't been close this series, big ben.

Bench- Big Shot Rob puts the spurs over the top.


Team Play- Both teams are evenly matched.

[Pistons < Spurs]

If you think Rip is better on these series than Manu you are completely wrong..


Why? Bowen... and why is Prince not better than Bowen in these series?

Because he hasn't done jack shit.... not even defensively...


Sorry you are wrong.


No one said "IN THIS SERIES"

regular season numbers

Rip-18.7 pts 4.9 asts. 3.9 rbs.
Manu-16 pts 3.9 asts. 4.4 rbs.

As I said, right now, Rip is slightly better....but long term, Manu will be the better of the 2

Prince-14.7 pts 3.0 asts. 5.3 rbs.
Bowen-8.2 pts 1.5 asts. 2.7 rbs.

Bowen is the man Defensively. But Prince is pretty good too. But I'll take his offense all day.

[MannyIsGod]

Rip and Manu are actually pretty even in the stats including rebounds/assists/steals. Rip does more than just score, he just takes about 10 more minutes a game to do so.

Also, take into consideration where they are in their different offensive schemes. Manu is not the first option, but Rip sometimes is.

Still, given the minute differantial, I'd go with Manu.

[OM_fever]

I don't post a lot but this is too tempting!! I never read a so stupid threat (ok forget LakersGod one)
First compare starters is different from compare the all team. Secondly, I thought we were speaking about basketball, a team play, with scheme... ok I know Cavs just give the ball to Lebron for a 1 on 1 contest, but sorry Spurs are a team! And trying to compare specilist between them it's interesting when based on the same area, not globally. Indeed, the Spurs are a more balanced team, Pistons really need a high scooring from their two guards, Spurs can afford to have a lot more combinations (especially with Big Shot Rob!!!!), they can alternate... even given the minute play, it's different, to have a really nice comparaison you should maybe compare the combo Bowen + Horry against Prince and ? (nobody I think!)...
stupid cavs fan!!!!

[samikeyp]

LeBron cheated!

http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2004/04/26/adtrack.jpg

[caspian]

I don't think this warrants much discussion -- the series has played out and it will be what it ends up being. But of all fans, you'd think that Pistons fans would understand that looking at a matchup on that sort of player-by-player basis is a ridiculous way of analyzing a series. There was no doubt going into last year's Finals that the very same analysis would have heavily favored the Lakers. The Pistons, however, won because their team concept was better and, though they lacked the star power, they got all of the little things done. The individual matchups were insignificant, because it was one team versus the other.

Great point. Those one-on-one match-ups are absurd...and what's even funnier is those same people will go on record as fans of "old school" team basketball. What a contradiction.

[Solid D]

I remember seeing former NBA PG and TV analyst Mark Jackson, do this head-to-head comparison and it turned out similarly, with Duncan and the bench as the only Spurs advantages. I forget about coaches...I think it was a "push" there.

Yet, Jackson said he still sees the Spurs winning based on their overall team game.

You can never go completely with position-by-position (head-to-head) matchups. (See Olympics and World Championships of Basketball)

[2centsworth]

No one said "IN THIS SERIES"

regular season numbers

Rip-18.7 pts 4.9 asts. 3.9 rbs.
Manu-16 pts 3.9 asts. 4.4 rbs.

As I said, right now, Rip is slightly better....but long term, Manu will be the better of the 2

Prince-14.7 pts 3.0 asts. 5.3 rbs.
Bowen-8.2 pts 1.5 asts. 2.7 rbs.

Bowen is the man Defensively. But Prince is pretty good too. But I'll take his offense all day.

run those numbers per 48 mins and the stats tell a vastly different story. but it doesn't matter because the teams are evenly matched.

[manubili]

I don't post a lot but this is too tempting!! I never read a so stupid threat (ok forget LakersGod one)
First compare starters is different from compare the all team. Secondly, I thought we were speaking about basketball, a team play, with scheme... ok I know Cavs just give the ball to Lebron for a 1 on 1 contest, but sorry Spurs are a team! And trying to compare specilist between them it's interesting when based on the same area, not globally. Indeed, the Spurs are a more balanced team, Pistons really need a high scooring from their two guards, Spurs can afford to have a lot more combinations (especially with Big Shot Rob!!!!), they can alternate... even given the minute play, it's different, to have a really nice comparaison you should maybe compare the combo Bowen + Horry against Prince and ? (nobody I think!)...
stupid cavs fan!!!!

Yeah, I know it's a stupid threat, most of all coming from a Cavs fan. But I
couldn't resist! Take in care that several detroit fans seem to agree with him.

What about Big Ben against Big Shot Rob? (in this series, yes)

Stupidity can be fun!
:drunk

[OM_fever]

I agree, and don't think your post was stupid, just the one in the detroit forum, let them just consolate themselves with that idea: they are better than the spurs, me all I want is the championship for the spurs!!

Have to go!
Go Spurs Go, match 5 was the most exciting I've seen!

[GopherSA]

Whoa!

Cleveland has fans?

Shocking...just shocking...I learn something every time I log into this forum.

[The Mask]

I'd take Manu over Rip, but would take Prince over Bowen. Bowen is tough but he is 34. Prince is younger and has a complete game. He has been terrible this series but his upside is way higher than Bowen. Bowen has 2-3 years left tops and that is as a D specialist. Billups is better than Parker, Ben better than Nazr, and Duncan better than Sheed. The difference in this series was the bench, Horry, and Det coming off a 7 game series and laying 2 eggs in SA. The Pistons will fight though and you can be sure of that. I still would not be surprised if they won tonight. They haven't won in SA in a long time but they haven't lost an elimination game in a while either.

[2centsworth]

Det coming off a 7 game series and laying 2 eggs in SA. Detroit is a lot better at making excuses. I'm surprised you left out the officiating.http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif


Just give both teams credit for their hard fought wins.

[Alchal]

Billups/Parker- Billups
Rip/Manu- Rip
Prince/Bruce- Bruce
Sheed/Duncan- Duncan
Ben/Nazr- Ben
Bench- Spurs

Detroit will win two on the road in a row and beat the Spurs for the NBA championship.

[PakiDan]

I can't argue too much with that. I definetly take Prince over Bowen. He may not be quite as good defensively as Bowen, but he offers alot more offensively. As for Rip and Manu, based simply on stats, Rip is better. I do believe that Manu has a higher ceiling than Rip does. But for right now, and more importantly, for THIS team, Rip is better.


better stats? Yeah, he's made 20+ points pg a few times..... off of 40+ shots pg. That's not good stats.. thats crap!

[ambchang]

No one said "IN THIS SERIES"

regular season numbers

Rip-18.7 pts 4.9 asts. 3.9 rbs.
Manu-16 pts 3.9 asts. 4.4 rbs.

As I said, right now, Rip is slightly better....but long term, Manu will be the better of the 2

Prince-14.7 pts 3.0 asts. 5.3 rbs.
Bowen-8.2 pts 1.5 asts. 2.7 rbs.

Bowen is the man Defensively. But Prince is pretty good too. But I'll take his offense all day.

Stats are for losers. If you look at Magic's numbers over his career, he is not that much better than Stockton, and he'd be no where close to Bird, but guess what? He is!
Looking at the stats, who would've guessed that Dumars was such a defender? Who would have seen that Rodman was way better as a Piston than as a Spur?
You may say that I will choose Ginobili over Rip because all I have seen is how Bowen shutting down Rip this series. That is not true, I have seen Rip in the Miami series, and even though he was impressive, he doesn't have the ability of Ginobili, even at this point in time, to take over a game.
Bowen vs. Prince? If I were a GM, i would take Prince right now (age, offensive abilities), but then again, Bowen is such an amazing player because he is the best role player in the league right now (and that includes Horry).

[ambchang]

They haven't won in SA in a long time but they haven't lost an elimination game in a while either.
This hasn't lost in elimination game in a while thing is really misleading. What do you know? They won the championship last year, and they are still alive right now, so naturally, they HAVE to have won all of their elimination in the last two years, no?

[Supergirl]

The only two Pistons who have been "better" in this series are Billups and Big Ben. Ben has been dominant, no question. I've always known about his D, but I've been impressed by his O. And his FTs! He's been great.

Billups is bigger and stronger, but Parker is quicker. Billups makes him work, but Parker has made him work too, and when we've put Bowen on him, like in Game 5, it was very effective.

Bowen is more valuable to the Spurs than Rip is to the Pistons. THe Pistons could replace Rip if they needed to. And he's been a nonfactor because of Bowen's D, while Bowen has still been an offensive threat.

Tayshaun has been less than I thought he would. Credit Manu's defense for this. He's also been a nonfactor, and he's not the playmaker Manu is, so Manu gets the edge.

[The Mask]

This hasn't lost in elimination game in a while thing is really misleading. What do you know? They won the championship last year, and they are still alive right now, so naturally, they HAVE to have won all of their elimination in the last two years, no?


I meant when they are on the verge of being eliminated.