Prove that Kobe is not Top 10 Player of all-time

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (13) - 4th, tied with Duncan
All-Defensive Teams (11) - 2nd tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (9) - 8th, tied with Duncan
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,560) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list by SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O’Neal
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Magic Johnson
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8. Tim Duncan
9. Larry Bird
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Jerry West
12. Elgin Baylor
13. Hakeem Olajuwon
14. Bob Petit
15. Moses Malone
16. Julius Erving
17. John Havlicek
18. Karl Malone
19. Isiah Thomas
20. Charles Barkley
21. Rick Barry
22. John Stockton
23. Elvin Hayes
24. Bob Cousy
25. David Robinson

[ElNono]

He is not... there, proven

[Deuce Bigalow]

He is not... there, proven

nice facts...

[ElNono]

nice facts...

You want to do this again? It always ends bad for you...

How many posts until you give up on the facts and you start with the insults? :lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

You want to do this again? It always ends bad for you...

I posted facts. It's already over.

[ElNono]

I posted facts. It's already over.

No, you posted cherry picked numbers... some of which are actually wrong.

:lol facts

[DPG21920]

We all know Kobe is behind Tim and 10th AT BEST

[ElNono]

For example, this is wrong:

Finals MVPs (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed

[ElNono]

How many defensive player of the year vs the competition?

[Deuce Bigalow]

No, you posted cherry picked numbers... some of which are actually wrong.

:lol facts

cherrypicked?

:lmao

that is like every accomplishment a guard can win

and all the numbers are right, go ahead and prove me wrong

[ElNono]

How many lost NBA Finals vs the competition?

[Deuce Bigalow]

For example, this is wrong:

Finals MVPs (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed

Finals Most Valuable Player
6 - Michael Jordan
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Shaquille O'Neal
3 - Tim Duncan
2 - Kobe Bryant
2 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2 - Larry Bird
2 - Hakeem Olajuwon
2 - Willis Reed

try again

[Deuce Bigalow]

We all know Kobe is behind Tim and 10th AT BEST

I've seen plenty of people have Kobe 7th or 8th that weren't Kobe fans

[Spursfan092120]

First off, Top 10 all time players don't quit on their team...see 2006 vs. Phoenix. Other than that,

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/breaking-down-the-nba/51455-sour-grapes-or-legit-beef-smush-parker-blames-kobe-bryant-for-problems-with-lakers

And there are others...BAD TEAMMATE!!

[ElNono]

cherrypicked?

:lol ofcourse they are

"Finals MVP" when the award didn't even exist until 1969 :lmao


and all the numbers are right, go ahead and prove me wrong

:lol sure.

Your claim:
Finals MVPs (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed

Fact:
More Finals MVP than Kobe: MJ, Shaq, Duncan, Magic

[Deuce Bigalow]

First off, Top 10 all time players don't quit on their team...see 2006 vs. Phoenix. Other than that,

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/breaking-down-the-nba/51455-sour-grapes-or-legit-beef-smush-parker-blames-kobe-bryant-for-problems-with-lakers

And there are others...BAD TEAMMATE!!

one bad game and a butthurt teammate is your proof?

:lmao

[ElNono]

Finals Most Valuable Player
6 - Michael Jordan
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Shaquille O'Neal
3 - Tim Duncan
2 - Kobe Bryant
2 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2 - Larry Bird
2 - Hakeem Olajuwon
2 - Willis Reed

try again

So he's tied for 5th with Kareem, Larry legend, Hakeem and Reed...

Exactly.

[ElNono]

I've seen plenty of people have Kobe 7th or 8th that weren't Kobe fans

I haven't.

[ElNono]

How many missed playoffs vs the competition?

[ElNono]

How many of these guys where part of the team that set a new record for worst loss in NBA Finals history?

[Stalin]

http://kobebryantisoverrated.webs.com/

/thread scrah

[DPG21920]

I've seen plenty of people have Kobe 7th or 8th that weren't Kobe fans

No. Most every list has Tim ahead of Kobe and Kobe boarder line top 10

[ElNono]

http://kobebryantisoverrated.webs.com/

/thread scrah

http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/profile01/124/8faaf735c23d4a1b99f49a1641ace843/p.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

No. Most every list has Tim ahead of Kobe and Kobe boarder line top 10
wrong
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

[jjktkk]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 3rd, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed
MVPs (1) - 6th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
All-NBA Teams (13) - 3rd, tied with Duncan
All-Defensive Teams (11) - 2nd tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Garnett
All-Star Teams (13) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (9) - 3rd, tied with Duncan
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,306) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,280) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list by SLAM http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/

:sleep

[ElNono]

wrong
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

fan voting :lmao

I'm sure they enjoyed watching Kareem :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

wrong
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

:lol did I say every list or most? The one you posted in the OP has it :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nobody has yet to prove with facts that Kobe is not top 10

[ElNono]

^ already proven... with facts

[Deuce Bigalow]

^ already proven... with facts

nope

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[ElNono]

nope

yep

[Deuce Bigalow]

yep

go ahead, try to prove it

[Gutter92]

nope

Lets see your top 10 list?

I'm gonna laugh if you have Kobe over any of the following

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Shaq
Akeem


That would put him, at best, #10.

[Deuce Bigalow]

My top 10

1. Jordan
2. Johnson
3. Russell
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Bird
6. O'Neal
7. Bryant
8. Duncan
9. Chamberlain
10. Olajuwon

[ElNono]

go ahead, try to prove it

Already did. Not top 10. Facts back it up.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Already did. Not top 10. Facts back it up.

:lol cool story. nice facts I see

[ElNono]

:lol cool story. nice facts I see

:lol same cool "facts" as you posted

:lol cool story I guess

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol same cool "facts" as you posted

:lol cool story I guess

championships
finals mvps
mvps
all nba teams
all nba first teams
all star teams
all defensive teams
scoring titles
points
playoff points

I guess those are not facts huh :lol

[ElNono]

"Finals MVP" when the award didn't even exist until 1969 :lmao


How many missed playoffs vs the competition?


How many of these guys where part of the team that set a new record for worst loss in NBA Finals history?


How many defensive player of the year vs the competition?

cherry picking :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

1. Jordan
2. Jabbar
3. Chamberlain
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Olajuwon
7. O'Neal
8. Duncan
9. Bryant
10. Russell

IMO..

Only Moses Malone could challenge the latter IMO..

I'd easily take Kobe over Jerry West, tbh..

[Deuce Bigalow]

cherry picking :lol
:lmao

:bang

[ElNono]

NBA All-Defensive Team: started in 1969
NBA Finals MVP: started in 1969
All Star: started 1951
Scoring title: No such title... tied with Tracy McGrady and trailing Allen Iverson :lmao
Points: Most attempts ever to reach that rank

We can go on with the "facts" :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

You want DPOY but that didnt exist till '83
Duncan has 0 of them, so he's not top 10?

lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe is 7th alltime in FGA, 5th alltime in scoring

so no, try again

[Spursfan092120]

Most missed game winning shots in NBA history...


cool stat, huh?

[ElNono]

IMO,

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Chamberlain
4. Magic
5. Olajuwon
6. Bird
7. Duncan
9. Russell
8. O'Neal
10. West

[Deuce Bigalow]

Most missed game winning shots in NBA history...


cool stat, huh?

most made too

[ElNono]

You want DPOY but that didnt exist till '83
Duncan has 0 of them, so he's not top 10?

lol

We're comparing top 10... it not just Duncan...

[Spursfan092120]

IMO,

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Chamberlain
4. Magic
5. Olajuwon
6. Bird
7. Duncan
9. Russell
8. O'Neal
10. West

I'd put Russell much higher..other than that, not too bad.

[Deuce Bigalow]

We're comparing top 10... it not just Duncan...

Duncan has 0 though, so how is he top 10 then according to you

[ElNono]

Kobe is 7th alltime in FGA, 5th alltime in scoring

so no, try again


Missed shots (minimum 15,000 shot attempts):
1. John Havlicek: 13,417 missed shots
2. Elvin Hayes: 13,296 missed shots
3. Karl Malone: 12,682 missed shots
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 12,470 missed shots
5. Michael Jordan: 12,345 missed shots
6. Kobe Bryant: 12,344 missed shots

Good job.

:lol thinking ranking high in FGA is a good thing

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird - 0
Magic - 0
Kobe - 0
Shaq - 0

they not top 10 according to you?

[ElNono]

Duncan has 0 though, so how is he top 10 then according to you

- Better overall player
- Actual team leader
- Dominant player in his prime
- Has the ships earned being the man to back it up
- Team player
- His teams never missed the playoffs

[Spursfan092120]

most made too

LMAO..he's not even the most made from current players...

Lebron - 17/50

Vince Carter - 16/51

Ray Allen - 15/39 - clutch mofo

Kome - 14/56

14/56? Sounds like a normal night for Kobe.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol thinking ranking high in FGA is a good thing

Kareem has the most FGA in NBA Histroy
lol at him chucker....

:bang

[ElNono]

Bird - 0
Magic - 0
Kobe - 0
Shaq - 0

they not top 10 according to you?

No. Calling you out on your cherry picking, that's all.

Where is playoffs missed? Why did you exclude that criteria?

[Deuce Bigalow]

LMAO..he's not even the most made from current players...

Lebron - 17/50

Vince Carter - 16/51

Ray Allen - 15/39 - clutch mofo

Kome - 14/56

14/56? Sounds like a normal night for Kobe.

He has 37 in his career, maybe 38 now

[ElNono]

Kareem has the most FGA in NBA Histroy
lol at him chucker....

:bang

But he made them... he's almost 10000 points over Kirby with only 5000 more shots. Kirby would basically need to stop missing entirely to match the FG%...

[Deuce Bigalow]

No. Calling you out on your cherry picking, that's all.

Where is playoffs missed? Why did you exclude that criteria?

Kobe missed the playoffs ONCE, and that was when he was injured :lol

Kareem missed the playoffs TWICE
lol at Kareem..cant carry a team

:bang

[BRHornet45]

kobe bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

championships (5) - rode coattails as a role player 3 times, and as a co-leader/chucking role player twice
finals mvps (2) - media chose this
mvps (1) - everyone knows this was nothing more than a lifetime achievement award. He didn't deserve it
all-nba teams (13) - media chose this
all-defensive teams (11) - media chose this
all-star teams (13) - lol all star game, again media chose this
all-nba first teams (9) - media chose this
scoring titles (2) - due to chucking, check his shooting percentage
points (29,306) - due to chucking, check his shooting percentage
playoff points (5,280) - due to chucking, check his shooting percentage



fixed

[Deuce Bigalow]

But he made them... he's almost 10000 points over Kirby with only 5000 more shots. Kirby would basically need to stop missing entirely to match the FG%...

Wait...7'1" Kareem has higher FG% than Kobe??? No way!

[Deuce Bigalow]

and it's actually 6,000 more shots

[ElNono]

Kobe missed the playoffs ONCE, and that was when he was injured :lol

He wasn't injured.


Kareem missed the playoffs TWICE
lol at Kareem..cant carry a team

:bang

He was MVP then, showing he wasn't the problem.

[Spursfan092120]

He has 37 in his career, maybe 38 now

What do you call game winners? It could be many different shots. I'm talking clutch last second game winning shots. Kobe isn't even close to one of the most clutch players of all time.

tbh...

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Jim
Hakeem
Logo

you forgot Larry

[Deuce Bigalow]

He wasn't injured.



He was MVP then, showing he wasn't the problem.

why did he miss a career high 17 games then?

:bang

[Deuce Bigalow]

What do you call game winners? It could be many different shots. I'm talking clutch last second game winning shots. Kobe isn't even close to one of the most clutch players of all time.

tbh...

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

he was against your spurs tbh :lol

[ElNono]

Wait...7'1" Kareem has higher FG% than Kobe??? No way!

Quickly approaching the leadership in most missed shots...


and it's actually 6,000 more shots

Make that 5,617 :rolleyes

And don't get me started on freebies... 3rd behind Malone and Oscar...

[ElNono]

why did he miss a career high 17 games then?

:bang

He quit on Rudy T. That was around the time when he started bitching about getting traded. Or was the bitching the next season? crofl

[Deuce Bigalow]

Quickly approaching the leadership in most missed shots...



Make that 5,617 :rolleyes

And don't get me started on freebies... 3rd behind Malone and Oscar...

Kobe is going to be top 3 in scoring in 2 years

[Deuce Bigalow]

So still no takers? Nobody can prove he isn't top 10?

[BanditHiro]

kobe is a top 20 player of all-time...how exactly is this bad?

[ElNono]

Kobe is going to be top 3 in scoring in 2 years

It's already sad to watch him "play" this year... cant think what he's gonna look like 2 years from now.

[ElNono]

So still no takers? Nobody can prove he isn't top 10?

Already debunked. Multiple times.

With facts.

Not top 10

[Spursfan092120]

We already did...you aren't listening. He's not a team player. He's 25% in clutch situations. That's why I'm done with this thread. We beat the shit out of you with a stick why he's not Top 10..you just don't want to hear it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Already debunked. Multiple times.

With facts.

Not top 10

:lmao

:bang

[Deuce Bigalow]

We already did...you aren't listening. He's not a team player. He's 25% in clutch situations. That's why I'm done with this thread. We beat the shit out of you with a stick why he's not Top 10..you just don't want to hear it.

:lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

So he isn't a "team player" ive heard from you
so he won those championships by himself?

[ElNono]

Already debunked. Multiple times.

With facts.

Not top 10

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

So he isn't a "team player" ive heard from you
so he won those championships by himself?
Hes cost the Lakers championships by himself.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The only facts here ElNoBrain is this


Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 3rd, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
All-NBA Teams (13) - 4th, tied with Duncan
All-Defensive Teams (11) - 2nd tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Garnett
All-Star Teams (13) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (9) - 8th, tied with Duncan
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,306) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,280) - 3rd

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hes cost the Lakers championships by himself.

So when he wins he was carried
and win he loses he costed it, it was all his fault

hmmm..

[BRHornet45]

Kobe isn't even top 50

he is top 75 at best to those who actually understand the game of basketball. its the ignorant, bandwagon jumping, kool-aid drinking fools who think otherwise.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe isn't even top 50

he is top 75 at best to those who actually understand the game of basketball. its the ignorant, bandwagon jumping, kool-aid drinking fools who think otherwise.

Yeah, yeah, cool story

[ElNono]

The only facts here ElNoBrain is this

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 3rd, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Reed
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
All-NBA Teams (13) - 4th, tied with Duncan
All-Defensive Teams (11) - 2nd tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Garnett
All-Star Teams (13) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (9) - 8th, tied with Duncan
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,306) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,280) - 3rd

Nope. Already a stretch to say he has 2 ships, never mind 5.
Couldn't carry a team on his own.
Doesn't make teammates better.
Perennial chucker
Top 5 in most missed shots in NBA history
Member of the team that set a new record for worst NBA Finals score
Cost his team at least 1 title
Perennially bailed out by teammates

All facts too

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

So when he wins he was carried
and win he loses he costed it, it was all his fault

hmmm..
2004. even when upgrading the PF & PG with malone & gary, the lakers still lose because kobe tried to take the title as the man from Shaq and got curbstomped by the pistons.

same goes as when the lakers win its because of kobe but when they lose its on everyone else when hes the one going 8/26 from the field.

[ElNono]

So when he wins he was carried
and win he loses he costed it, it was all his fault

hmmm..

Shaq was shooting 55+% that series. Numbers don't lie.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nope. Already a stretch to say he has 2 ships, never mind 5.
Couldn't carry a team on his own.
Doesn't make teammates better.
Perennial chucker
Top 5 in most missed shots in NBA history
Member of the team that set a new record for worst NBA Finals score
Cost his team at least 1 title
Perennially bailed out by teammates

All facts too

you're sad you know that. real sad

[Giuseppe]

Shaq was shooting 55+% that series. Numbers don't lie.

Kobe: 2

Daddy: 1

[ElNono]

you're sad you know that. real sad


You want to do this again? It always ends bad for you...

How many posts until you give up on the facts and you start with the insults? :lmao

90 posts, give or take a couple posts? :lol

[Giuseppe]

Nope. Already a stretch to say he has 2 ships, never mind 5.
Couldn't carry a team on his own.
Doesn't make teammates better.
Perennial chucker
Top 5 in most missed shots in NBA history
Member of the team that set a new record for worst NBA Finals score
Cost his team at least 1 title
Perennially bailed out by teammates

All facts too

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Deuce Bigalow]

2004. even when upgrading the PF & PG with malone & gary, the lakers still lose because kobe tried to take the title as the man from Shaq and got curbstomped by the pistons.

same goes as when the lakers win its because of kobe but when they lose its on everyone else when hes the one going 8/26 from the field.

Kobe led the team in scoring and assists in every series except that one. Without him they wouldn't even be there.

Also in game 3, Kobe - 13 shots. Lakers lose by 20(biggest loss)

It wasn't just Kobe shooting, Pistons were clearly better and locked everyone else down, well except Shaq, but that's one guy

[Deuce Bigalow]

90 posts, give or take a couple posts? :lol

I'm asking for facts and you keep posting garbage. Bring some facts to the table then we can discuss

[Deuce Bigalow]

ah let's ask bill simmons

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2010/12/sports-guys-updated-hof-pyramid-2010.html

wow, Shaq got robbed

[ElNono]

I'm asking for facts and you keep posting garbage. Bring some facts to the table then we can discuss


Nope. Already a stretch to say he has 2 ships, never mind 5.
Couldn't carry a team on his own.
Doesn't make teammates better.
Perennial chucker
Top 5 in most missed shots in NBA history
Member of the team that set a new record for worst NBA Finals score
Cost his team at least 1 title
Perennially bailed out by teammates



All facts

You keep not wanting to hear it. That's your problem, not mine.

Not top 10

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

Kobe led the team in scoring and assists in every series except that one. Without him they wouldn't even be there.

Also in game 3, Kobe - 13 shots. Lakers lose by 20(biggest loss)

It wasn't just Kobe shooting, Pistons were clearly better and locked everyone else down, well except Shaq, but that's one guy
thank you for proving me right that kobe was the main factor for losing the 04 title.

8 seasons later and hes still hasnt learned his lesson. Bynum is clearly the best player on the lakers right now & kobe is chucking a chance at a 6th ring down the shitter.

[Giuseppe]

thank you for proving me right that kobe was the main factor for losing the 04 title.

8 seasons later and hes

In that interim he's:::

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Cry Havoc]

ah let's ask bill simmons

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2010/12/sports-guys-updated-hof-pyramid-2010.html

:lmao Russell ahead of Wilt. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Bill Russell has 11 rings, Wilt only has 1. That's pretty much an insurmountable advantage

Why is Russell the only Celtic from that era in the top 10, then?

[LkrFan]

Kareem
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Russell

Everything else is debatable:

5. Russell is beneath the others because he dominated in the 50's on stacked teams and no free agency. 11 rangs in a weak era.

4. I won't put Kobe above MJ until he at least ties him in rangs. Beasts TD head to head in rangs and playoff wins. Even in his 16th year (and all that mileage) still leads the league in PPG.

3. MJ didn't win even once during Showtime. All rings won during NBA expansion with T'pups, Hype, Grizzlies, etc.

2. Magic. 5 rangs in the '80s. Could dominate any era, but couldn't win without Cap.

1. Cap. 6 rangs - 5 in the '80s. Dominant for over 20 years.

[DPG21920]

Hey, hey..shut it

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

Kareem
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Russell

Everything else is debatable:

5. Russell is beneath the others because he dominated in the 50's on stacked teams and no free agency. 11 rangs in a weak era.

4. I won't put Kobe above MJ until he at least ties him in rangs. Beasts TD head to head in rangs and playoff wins. Even in his 16th year (and all that mileage) still leads the league in PPG.

3. MJ didn't win even once during Showtime. All rings won during NBA expansion with T'pups, Hype, Grizzlies, etc.

2. Magic. 5 rangs in the '80s. Could dominate any era, but couldn't win without Cap.

1. Cap. 6 rangs - 5 in the '80s. Dominant for over 20 years.
yep. when you think the best, 32% is what comes to mind. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

ah let's ask bill simmons

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2010/12/sports-guys-updated-hof-pyramid-2010.html

Bill is a bigger hater than many STers. He's a Celtic fan. Remember, Duncan was supposed to be a Celtic.

[BanditHiro]

Kareem
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Russell

Everything else is debatable:

5. Russell is beneath the others because he dominated in the 50's on stacked teams and no free agency. 11 rangs in a weak era.

4. I won't put Kobe above MJ until he at least ties him in rangs. Beasts TD head to head in rangs and playoff wins. Even in his 16th year (and all that mileage) still leads the league in PPG.

3. MJ didn't win even once during Showtime. All rings won during NBA expansion with T'pups, Hype, Grizzlies, etc.

2. Magic. 5 rangs in the '80s. Could dominate any era, but couldn't win without Cap.

1. Cap. 6 rangs - 5 in the '80s. Dominant for over 20 years.

drown yourself in boiling water...

[LkrFan]

Hey, hey..shut it

LOL. Duncan is a good player who was the most protected big man in NBA history. Despite winning 50+ more than Kobe's Lakers & never missing the playoffs, Kobe still got him in rangs, playoff wins, head to head wins, and he repeated without Shaq. Duncan never played with Mihm, Kwame, Smush, or Luke Walton, tbh. These are things we know. Kobe is also undefeated against 8th seeds. Thems be the facts from this horrific poster, to you, my friend. :toast

:downspin:

[LkrFan]

drown yourself in boiling water...

:lol

[LkrFan]

yep. when you think the best, 32% is what comes to mind. :downspin:

:lol

[ElNono]

LOL. Duncan is a good player who was the most protected big man in NBA history. :downspin:

Kobe ranked 3rd all time in freebies... you sure you want to talk about being protected? :downspin:

[LkrFan]

Kobe ranked 3rd all time in freebies... you sure you want to talk about being protected? :downspin:

Yeah, let's do it. Kobe hasn't played above the rim in years. How do you explain his injuries - given that he is primarily a jump shooter? Duncan is a big that plays closer to the rim with all the banging - yet he was injured less. Lets have a SG comparison. Wade goes to the rack way more but was injured less. :wakeu

In their primes, less players could guard Kobe without fouling when compared to Duncan - hence more freebies.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe ranked 3rd all time in freebies... you sure you want to talk about being protected? :downspin:

Only pussies & assholes play the ref card.

[ElNono]

Yeah, let's do it. Kobe hasn't played above the rim in years. How do you explain his injuries - given that he is primarily a jump shooter?

What injuries? :lmao


Duncan is a big that plays closer to the rim with all the banging - yet he was injured less. Lets have a SG comparison. Wade goes to the rack way more but was injured less. :wakeu

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/200702220938.jpg


In their primes, less players could guard Kobe without fouling when compared to Duncan - hence more freebies.

When Jordan played too? :downspin:

[100%duncan]

6/24

[Man In Black]

Fuck LAL Fan....You people need to wipe the cum off your chin. Bean could go on a 3 state killing spree and massacres some pre-schoolers and you peeps would applaud him for how well he cuts with a blade.

CLASSIC. You LAL Bandwagon are some funny ass mf'ers.

But I got 1 question...out of all those Bean accomplishments...how many of those are when he is THE MAN...UNQUESTIONABLY, for those teams?

See, that's the trick here...Duncan became the MAN the moment he put on that jersey and EVERYTHING they do then and even now, revolves around the fact that his foundation work will keep the team WINNING.

Bean always needed a big...HE CAN'T GO JORDAN and win with scrub bigs. He'll always be #2 SG of all time. ALWAYS. He may match Jordan in rings but when it gets down to it, he'll never match those accolades because of those times, HE SIMPLY WASN'T THE MAN. Shaq went Daddy on the NBA and Bean went along for the ride. Besides, Bean ain't winning another title...He dropped his Lucky Charm Fish to the curb. No Fish...NO TITLE.

[Spurs da champs]

Honestly man Kobe wasn't the best player on any of the Championship teams.

[Nathan89]

Is TS% still your favorite stat Deuce?

[Nathan89]

Things we know:

Kobe never rang without a top 10 player on his team.
Kobe hasn't won without a top 3 draft pick on his team.

[Giuseppe]

Things we know:

Kobe never rang without a top 10 player on his team.
Kobe hasn't won without a top 3 draft pick on his team.

...

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[LkrFan]

Fuck LAL Fan....You people need to wipe the cum off your chin. Bean could go on a 3 state killing spree and massacres some pre-schoolers and you peeps would applaud him for how well he cuts with a blade.

CLASSIC. You LAL Bandwagon are some funny ass mf'ers.

But I got 1 question...out of all those Bean accomplishments...how many of those are when he is THE MAN...UNQUESTIONABLY, for those teams?

See, that's the trick here...Duncan became the MAN the moment he put on that jersey and EVERYTHING they do then and even now, revolves around the fact that his foundation work will keep the team WINNING.

Bean always needed a big...HE CAN'T GO JORDAN and win with scrub bigs. He'll always be #2 SG of all time. ALWAYS. He may match Jordan in rings but when it gets down to it, he'll never match those accolades because of those times, HE SIMPLY WASN'T THE MAN. Shaq went Daddy on the NBA and Bean went along for the ride. Besides, Bean ain't winning another title...He dropped his Lucky Charm Fish to the curb. No Fish...NO TITLE.

Blah blah blah. Kobe makes the top 5 because he repeated as champion without a HOF teammate. No other player in my top 5 can say that. Duncan couldn't, even WITH a top 50 player on the same roster. His teams won >50 games damn near every year he played, yet he couldn't repeat. MAJOR indictments on his resume IMO. :downspin:

[Man In Black]

Seriously LAL Bandwagon fan?

Repeating?

08 The Fish No Call on Barry killed the Spurs chance at a repeat.

But Duncan not a Top 10 Player because he has not repeated?


LARRY LEGEND BIRD SAYS HELLO. Dynasty 3 time champ...no repeat.

You fucks make it seem like it's so fuckin' Easy....pay attention. The NBA went for years and years with no repeats after the Celtics and right up until the Lakers did it with Magic.
Mavs ain't repeating this year.

[LkrFan]

Seriously LAL Bandwagon fan?

Repeating?

08 The Fish No Call on Barry killed the Spurs chance at a repeat.

But Duncan not a Top 10 Player because he has not repeated?


LARRY LEGEND BIRD SAYS HELLO. Dynasty 3 time champ...no repeat.

You fucks make it seem like it's so fuckin' Easy....pay attention. The NBA went for years and years with no repeats after the Celtics and right up until the Lakers did it with Magic.
Mavs ain't repeating this year.
:lmao at bandwagon comment. That's a good one.

Bird >>>> DuncanPERIOD. Bad argument bruh. This coming from a Celtic hater.

Mavs not repeating? I said that immediately after The Skunker. Way to stay on topic. :rolleyes

[Sportstudi]

Blah blah blah. Kobe makes the top 5 because he repeated as champion without a HOF teammate. No other player in my top 5 can say that. Duncan couldn't, even WITH a top 50 player on the same roster. His teams won >50 games damn near every year he played, yet he couldn't repeat. MAJOR indictments on his resume IMO. :downspin:

Wrong. Gasol will be in the HOF. Even if he doesn't get there based on his NBA resumee alone, he will for sure be inducted for his international play.

[ChrisRichards]

Trolling aside, its hard for me not to put Kobe in the Top 10 despite of his freaking aweful shot selection he showed basketball fans for almost 2 decades. His achievements and remarkable offensive skills are just too much to ignore.



You have the immortal five which status/ranking/position in the list will never be moved and/or replaced IMO.

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell


I understand some of them may be overrated like Russell and perhaps Bird in terms of statisical numbers, but these players are Icons forever etched upon the minds of basketball purists.


Then you have the second tier of great players. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and Olajuwon falls in this group. If I'm to rank these players based on production, individual achievements and overall success, It would be

6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Olajuwon

Duncan is easily ahead of Kobe for the simple fact that he had a better career, Kobe really doesn't have a case against Duncan. I'm almost ready to pick Kobe ahead of Shaq but Shaq's first 11 years in the league is hard to overlook. He just dominated the league, something Kobe was only able to do once (2006). Shaq also has 3 Finals MVP to Kobe's 2.


Olajuwon and Kobe is interesting and I think this is what people should really debate. Olajuwon had an illustrious career, but TBQH, his years before winning a championship as impressive as it looks is similar to Dwight Howard (obviously the dream has more offensive aresenal). and after Olajuwon's 2 magical seasons, he just disappeared. You can't say the same for Kobe.



Kobe was instrumental in LA's first three peat years. He was their best closer, facilitator, wing defender. Despite of his selfishness and immaturity, I think Kobe Bryant was ultimately the reason Shaq won 3 titles, he did saved Shaq's ass in the playoffs, something Penny Hardaway failed to do. I understand Shaq was the main figure but when the TrailBlazers, Spurs and Sacramento Kings were making Shaq "limited", Kobe completely destroyed them on the other hand.



When Shaq departed LA, everyone thought (myself included) Kobe was done and he'll do is chase scoring records. He proved us right by entertaining the league in 2006 and 2007, it was fun to watch but we all chuckled at his first round exits. So he fired back by demanding a trade that landed them Pau Gasol and lead LA for two more titles. 6/24 or not, a title is a title in my book. Doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there like my pops use to say.



Olajuwon had the better efficiency and honestly, I think he's a better player but Kobe's road to redemption was so good, and he has more rings and individual success than Hakeem so its hard for me to pick Olajuwon over him so I'll put Kobe at #8 and the Dream at #9.



Once Kobe finally hangs it up though, I suspect the media will rank him at # 6 or 7. People will forget the FG% TS% and PER. They will look at career numbers and 5 Titles, 3 Scoring titles, 2 Finals MVP, All NBA team selections, Olympic Medals and his 81 point performance.

[LkrFan]

Wrong. Gasol will be in the HOF. Even if he doesn't get there based on his NBA resumee alone, he will for sure be inducted for his international play.

International play could get him in no doubt. But on his NBA merits alone, notafuckingchancePERIOD.

PS - you assholes weren't calling him a HOFer when the Spurs were tapping that Memphis ass. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

^I'd make a statistical argument that Dream >> Duncan. Better defender, better rebounder, better swatter, better low post game (ask MVP D Rob :lol). Yet you put Duncan over him? Hmmmm

[endrity]

^I'd make a statistical argument that Dream >> Duncan. Better defender, better rebounder, better swatter, better low post game (ask MVP D Rob :lol). Yet you put Duncan over him? Hmmmm

At his peak maybe.

Duncan was much better for the better part of his career.

[LkrFan]

At his peak maybe.

Duncan was much better for the better part of his career.

Agree to disagree. Dream did everything better than Duncan. Too bad his supporting cast was shitty - otherwise the rang argument wouldn't be valid either. Dream was a monster. Ask Cap, Shaq, Ewing, Mailman! Barkley, DRob, Daugherty, etc. and they'll tell you the same. In unison.

Edit: would Duncan be a HOFer if he played center his entire career? I say maybe.

[ChrisRichards]

Olajuwon may be better than Duncan but his peak wasn't as long as Duncan or Kobe. He was pretty much an afterthought when Jordan came back and his career went into obscurity by finishing his career in Toronto.

[LkrFan]

Olajuwon may be better than Duncan but his peak wasn't as long as Duncan or Kobe. He was pretty much an afterthought when Jordan came back and his career went into obscurity by finishing his career in Toronto.

21 ppg
11 rpg
3 bpg
2.5 apg

^ Career averages. He played 17 years. If he had a better supporting cast we wouldn't even have this argument because he would have rang more. That's the difference between him and Duncan.

[ChrisRichards]

21 ppg
11 rpg
3 bpg
2.5 apg

^ Career averages. He played 17 years. If he had a better supporting cast we wouldn't even have this argument because he would have rang more. That's the difference between him and Duncan.


Olajuwon did had a great cast. Barkley, Drexler and Pippen were his teammates. Duncan had a TOSB Robinson and he was able to carry his TOSB into a championship.

[LkrFan]

Olajuwon did had a great cast. Barkley, Drexler and Pippen were his teammates. Duncan had a TOSB Robinson and he was able to carry his TOSB into a championship.

You haven't been watching basketball that long have you? If you did, you'd remember that, that team jelled like oil and water at best. A collection of names don't guarantee you shit - ask D-Whistle. :downspin:

[Giuseppe]

TOSB TOSB

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[ChrisRichards]

You haven't been watching basketball that long have you? If you did, you'd remember that, that team jelled like oil and water at best. A collection of names don't guarantee you shit - ask D-Whistle. :downspin:
That was a counter argument to yours saying Olajuwon didn't had any great supporting cast. I just proved he did.

[ChrisRichards]

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.
Yes. Yes you do.


:rolleyes

[LkrFan]

That was a counter argument to yours saying Olajuwon didn't had any great supporting cast. I just proved he did.

No you didn't. By that year, they were just names. Barkley was not the Barkley of old - he was just old. Ditto for Drexler. Pip was used incorrectly as we saw when he went to the Blazers.

If what you are saying is true, 2004 should have been a cakewalk for the Lakers. Names don't mean shitPERIOD.

[Proxy]

I would say Kobe, TD, and Shaq get the nod over The Dream due to collected accolades. Nothing more, nothing less. If people were to judge the top 10 by pure statistics with awards and legacies having no weight in the debate, the top 10 would look very different.

And Kobe is top 10, for sure.

[LkrFan]

I would say Kobe, TD, and Shaq get the nod over The Dream due to collected accolades. Nothing more, nothing less. If people were to judge the top 10 by pure statistics with awards and legacies having no weight in the debate, the top 10 would look very different.

And Kobe is top 10, for sure.

Agreed. :toast

[ChrisRichards]

No you didn't. By that year, they were just names. Barkley was not the Barkley of old - he was just old. Ditto for Drexler. Pip was used incorrectly as we saw when he went to the Blazers.

If what you are saying is true, 2004 should have been a cakewalk for the Lakers. Names don't mean.

I don't even know what you're arguing at this point, but I'm assuming you're trying to convince us that Olajuwon>Duncan, correct?

[dbestpro]

After gazing through the various posts and stats the one thing for sure is that Kobe very well may be the number one chucker of all time.

Definition of a chucker: Outside shooter who chucks it even when other players are opened, is double teamed, dismisses the offensive framework and misses a lot. This person will cause good teams to lose when they shoot more than 25 shots per game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

updated. I messed up on one thing earlier. ANd I also added top 5 finishes in MVP voting http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/NBA/top5mvps.txt

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's anywhere from 8-12, imo. I have him 10 on my personal list, but I wouldn't argue too much with anyone placing him a couple of spots higher or a couple of spots lower. I know it's our Spurfan duty to hate on that cocksucker, but you can hate, call him overrated (which he is, as the mainstream media would have us believe that he's a Top 5 player of all-time, and some of his retard fans have him as high as 2nd all-time), and still remain objective.

[DMC]

updated. I messed up on one thing earlier. ANd I also added top 5 finishes in MVP voting http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/NBA/top5mvps.txt
staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

[Bonner4MVPzz]

Kobe's ani ywhere from 8-12, imo. I have him 10 on my personal list, but I wouldn't argue too much with anyone placing him a couple of spots higher or a couple of spots lower. I know it's our Spurfan duty to hate on that cocksucker, but you can hate, call him overrated (which he is, as the mainstream media would have us believe that he's a Top 5 player of all-time, and some of his retard fans have him as high as 2nd all-time), and still remain objective.

i honestly could not agree more.:toast

even though i hate him and is overrated

[russellgoat]

lol @ people ranking shaq higher than Olajuwon. He was reliable in crunch time and was better defensively.

[lefty]

Bump .........



Top 10 players of all time dont blow leads like Kobe did this year

[Venti Quattro]

DPG is going to cream himself all over this thread with his "top 15" takes.