Calling Capologists

[MannyIsGod]

I know I'm jumping the gun a bit here, especially considering we're about to win the title, but I read the article about the collective bargaining agreement proposal that is almost done this morning and it got me thinking:

How is a raised cap going to effect the Spurs? Will all of the teams be under the cap now? Will Peter Holt stop being cheap now that the luxury tax threshhold will be much higher or will be still be a frugal bastard?

[travis2]

I don't know that it can do anything but help the Spurs. The Spurs have several long-term contracts that define most of the salary anyway. The additional cap space means they should have more to bring over players like Scola...have a better chance to hold on to Devin...decide if they want to give Big Dog a longer look...stuff like that.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't know the specifics of the new plan, but a raised cap could stand to help the Spurs, particularly if the tax benefits remain but the threshold is raised.

There's some chance, albeit a small one, that a raised cap could put the Spurs back under and give them some flexibility to make moves this off-season (particularly moves associated with locking up Nazr (if they choose to do that), re-signing Horry (if he opts-out), thinking about re-signing Robinson (though they'd still have limited funds to do so), and signing Scola).

It might also help the Spurs to deal an inflated contract to a team that suddenly has more flexibility.

[FromWayDowntown]

The one issue that might come up is the option on Timmy's deal (which I think he can exercise in a year or two). If Tim opts-out (and I'd be shocked if he didn't), he'll be able to renegotiate. Assuming that max contracts are indexed to the overall cap, Tim's take home pay stands to go up if the cap increases. Right now, he's allowed something like 25-30% of the Spurs cap as his salary, plus 12.5% annual raises. The cap has been in the mid-40 million range. If the cap goes up to, say, 50-55 million and Tim can get 25-30% of it as a max contract, he'll make more and that means the Spurs will have to pay more.

It's a small thing, but it's out there.

[bigzak25]

do the spurs still get the MLE if they are under the new raised cap?

thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

The new rasied cap projections I read were at 47-50 Million. I don't think The Spurs would come under it at 47, but they would at 50 wouldn't they?

But I think the more imporant barrier is the luxury tax because we have the bird rights to anyone we want to keep on this roster at the moment with the exception of Glen Robinson.

[2centsworth]

Talking about raising the cap to $50mm don't know what luxury cap threshold is. Spurs roster looks like this:

in millions
Tim- 16
Manu-8
Tony-11
Bruce-3.1
Nazr-5
Rasho-6
Brent-4
Horry-1.3
Devin-.5
Beno-1.3
Tmass-1.3

Total= 57mm

Priorities- Resign Horry and Devin. Bring in Scola. Seems like the money is already spent. BTW, writing a 57mm check doesn't seem cheap to me.

[CosmicCowboy]

It also depends on what they do with the "supertax"...The luxtax payments have been a big source of revenue for the Spurs...from a business standpoint they are going to want to not only avoid lux tax but keep their payroll low enough that they can still benefit from those other teams that exceed the luxtax limits...hopefully whatever this number ends up being the Spurs will be able to keep their core group together and resign/add the players they want...

[travis2]

The new rasied cap projections I read were at 47-50 Million. I don't think The Spurs would come under it at 47, but they would at 50 wouldn't they?

But I think the more imporant barrier is the luxury tax because we have the bird rights to anyone we want to keep on this roster at the moment with the exception of Glen Robinson.

Don't forget Scola and our other overseas prospects. While the Spurs may own their rights, they are not Early Bird protected...the Spurs would have to find a way to pay the ones they want to keep and do it under the cap.

[travis2]

Talking about raising the cap to $50mm don't know what luxury cap threshold is. Spurs roster looks like this:

in millions
Tim- 16
Manu-8
Tony-11
Bruce-3.1
Nazr-5
Rasho-6
Brent-4
Horry-1.3
Devin-.5
Beno-1.3
Tmass-1.3

Total= 57mm

Priorities- Resign Horry and Devin. Bring in Scola. Seems like the money is already spent. BTW, writing a 57mm check doesn't seem cheap to me.

Where are those numbers from?

[MannyIsGod]

The Supertax has been taken off the table from what I understand.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't forget Scola and our other overseas prospects. While the Spurs may own their rights, they are not Early Bird protected...the Spurs would have to find a way to pay the ones they want to keep and do it under the cap.
I don't think they are going to come in under that cap in any situation. Those overseas will have to be paid with the MLE. But, Holt won't exceed the cap torwards the point of the luxury tax. So the real barrier in examing who they plan on keeping is going to be that luxury tax barrier because of bird rights.

[FromWayDowntown]

do the spurs still get the MLE if they are under the new raised cap?

thanks.

I wouldn't think so, unless they change the rules pertaining to cap exceptions at the same time.

Ant it looks like they could go under the cap if it increases substantially. The 04-05 cap was $43.87 million and the Spurs payroll was $47.149 million, so they were just barely over this year. The Spurs are currently obligated to a payroll of around $45.819 million for next season, according to hoopshype.com. If the amount of BRI dedicated to the cap goes up from 48.04% to the 51% or so that espn.com is reporting, then the cap could go up to around $47-50 million, which would put the Spurs under and deprive them of the MLE.

[SouthernFried]

I thought this was about Guitar Capo's...

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck, thats what I was worried about. The new cap would actually hurt the Spurs and not help them if they come in under it.

[CosmicCowboy]

The actual cap number will be irrelevant to the Spurs for years to come because we a sure to be over it. That cap number basically just affects the Spurs ability to offer free agents over the MLE to sign them. The new lux tax pay/receive numbers will be the critical numbers the Spurs will be working with. I don't think that management will let payroll exceed the point where they get a share of the tax money...

[FromWayDowntown]

The actual cap number will be irrelevant to the Spurs for years to come because we a sure to be over it. That cap number basically just affects the Spurs ability to offer free agents over the MLE to sign them. The new lux tax pay/receive numbers will be the critical numbers the Spurs will be working with. I don't think that management will let payroll exceed the point where they get a share of the tax money...


I disagree, at least in the coming off-season. I hadn't realized how close the Spurs were to the cap already, and with 7 expiring contracts (Brown, Horry, Johnson, Marks, Massenburg, Robinson, Wilks), there's a good chance, given the increased cap figure, that the Spurs will actually go under the cap again in Year 1. Even if you add in the salary of the #28 pick, if the cap goes up as much as has been reported, the Spurs will have plenty of breathing room and will likely be under for 2005-06. They'll certainly be below the threshold for a number of years to come, too, which I'm sure is music to Peter Holt's ears.

One thing to consider about being under the cap -- should that come to pass. The Spurs will have some flexibility in terms of making trades because they will be able to bring back more salary than they send out (to some extent). It might be only $2-4 million in year one, but if you could, say, deal a $6 million contract, you could, in theory at least, bring back a $10 million player. Just a thought.

[travis2]

I disagree, at least in the coming off-season. I hadn't realized how close the Spurs were to the cap already, and with 7 expiring contracts (Brown, Horry, Johnson, Marks, Massenburg, Robinson, Wilks), there's a good chance, given the increased cap figure, that the Spurs will actually go under the cap again in Year 1. Even if you add in the salary of the #28 pick, if the cap goes up as much as has been reported, the Spurs will have plenty of breathing room and will likely be under for 2005-06. They'll certainly be below the threshold for a number of years to come, too, which I'm sure is music to Peter Holt's ears.

One thing to consider about being under the cap -- should that come to pass. The Spurs will have some flexibility in terms of making trades because they will be able to bring back more salary than they send out (to some extent). It might be only $2-4 million in year one, but if you could, say, deal a $6 million contract, you could, in theory at least, bring back a $10 million player. Just a thought.

Aren't "empty" slots counted at a multiplier of the league minimum for cap purposes until filled?

[2centsworth]

Where are those numbers from? Memory. Duncan getting Max, Manu just resigned for 8 avg, tony just got 66 over 6 etc.

But here's what I got from USA today, notice Tony's salary will increase next year so my original numbers should be very close.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=25


(http://us.f333.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=22_13095639_174094_1398_185216_0_51736_25293 4_1129530439&bodyPart=2&tnef=&YY=55719&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&VScan=1&Idx=2)

[FromWayDowntown]

Aren't "empty" slots counted at a multiplier of the league minimum for cap purposes until filled?

Sure, but only to 12, I think. The Spurs have 8 players (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Mohammed, Rasho, Barry, Bowen, Udrih) under contract for next season, and will have to have a place holder for Horry, at least until he opts-out, so that's 9 spots. They'll also have a holder for the #28 pick, unless they deal it; that's 10 spots. So, they'll only have holds on 2 empty slots. The amount of those holds depends on the salary paid to the player in the previous year, with Bird FA's counting 200% and most other FA's counting 120-200% of previous salary.

The Spurs have no huge contracts to fill those slots, so even if every single last one of those guys counted at an average of around 150%, they'd still be pretty close to under the cap. Obviously, that will depend in part on what BRI ends up being for 04-05, too. If the cap gets set around $51 million, I'd be very surprised if the Spurs were under.

[MannyIsGod]

So it looks pretty sure that the Spurs will be out of an MLE this summer, correct? So, unless they are under enough to go after Scola, that hurts them, correct?

[travis2]

Sure, but only to 12, I think. The Spurs have 8 players (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Mohammed, Rasho, Barry, Bowen, Udrih) under contract for next season, and will have to have a place holder for Horry, at least until he opts-out, so that's 9 spots. They'll also have a holder for the #28 pick, unless they deal it; that's 10 spots. So, they'll only have holds on 2 empty slots. The amount of those holds depends on the salary paid to the player in the previous year, with Bird FA's counting 200% and most other FA's counting 120-200% of previous salary.

The Spurs have no huge contracts to fill those slots, so even if every single last one of those guys counted at an average of around 150%, they'd still be pretty close to under the cap. Obviously, that will depend in part on what BRI ends up being for 04-05, too. If the cap gets set around $51 million, I'd be very surprised if the Spurs were under.

OK...thanks...

I guess that means that one of those empty slots would be 200% of Devin Brown's salary (Early Bird rights)...

[2centsworth]

So it looks pretty sure that the Spurs will be out of an MLE this summer, correct? So, unless they are under enough to go after Scola, that hurts them, correct?
If you're out a MLE if you're over the cap.


If the cap gets set around $51 million, I'd be very surprised if the Spurs were under.

[FromWayDowntown]

OK...thanks...

I guess that means that one of those empty slots would be 200% of Devin Brown's salary (Early Bird rights)...

I think that's right, travis. Don't take me as gospel on this.

The more I think about the nuances of the cap structure, the more I'm convinced that the Spurs might just barely be over when the summer rolls around. That would probably be good news for those who've counted on the MLE as a means to sign Scola, while using Bird rights on guys like Devin.

[2centsworth]

Fromwaydowntown,

Why is it on hoopshype they don't include tony parkers salary as committed for next year?

[gospursgojas]

Talking about raising the cap to $50mm don't know what luxury cap threshold is. Spurs roster looks like this:

in millions
Tim- 16
Manu-8
Tony-11
Bruce-3.1
Nazr-5
Rasho-6
Brent-4
Horry-1.3
Devin-.5
Beno-1.3
Tmass-1.3

Total= 57mm

Priorities- Resign Horry and Devin. Bring in Scola. Seems like the money is already spent. BTW, writing a 57mm check doesn't seem cheap to me.


Off topic but.... freaking Rasho and Barry making more than Bruce

[MannyIsGod]

Off topic but.... freaking Rasho and Barry making more than Bruce
Bruce however is locked up for more years, which is also a benefit to him.

[FromWayDowntown]

Fromwaydowntown,

Why is it on hoopshype they don't include tony parkers salary as committed for next year?

Boy, that's a good question -- I hadn't caught that.

Putting pen to paper and estimating Parker's salary for next season, I'm changing my song right now -- there's absolutely no way the Spurs will be under the cap this off-season.

Great catch 2centsworth. My bad for not double-checking my work.

[travis2]

I think that's right, travis. Don't take me as gospel on this.

The more I think about the nuances of the cap structure, the more I'm convinced that the Spurs might just barely be over when the summer rolls around. That would probably be good news for those who've counted on the MLE as a means to sign Scola, while using Bird rights on guys like Devin.

Think you may be right...

hmmmmm...according to the USAToday numbers, the Spurs were at around $47M this year...with expected raises in committed salaries, that should easily push them over any number being pushed for a cap next year.

Of course, there's no guarantee these numbers are right either...

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Ok, so then they WILL have the MLE this summer, and in addition will have more space to work with under the luxury tax to resign players, correct?

[2centsworth]

Bruce however is locked up for more years, which is also a benefit to him.
Bruce is locked up for 2 more years I think. we're stuck with Rasho for 4 more years and barry for 3.

[MannyIsGod]

Bruce is locked up for 2 more years I think. we're stuck with Rasho for 4 more years and barry for 3.
I phrased that poorly. What I meant to put was that Bruce deal prior to being reworked paid him more per season but now it's spread out over more years, which is one reason why his annual amount is reduced.

[2centsworth]

I phrased that poorly. What I meant to put was that Bruce deal prior to being reworked paid him more per season but now it's spread out over more years, which is one reason why his annual amount is reduced.
I thought that's what you meant, just checking.

[whottt]

Off topic but.... freaking Rasho and Barry making more than Bruce

That's because Bruce renegotiated his contract so the team could get far enough under the cap to sign one last FA. That's just Bruce being Bruce...he's done that kind of stuff his entire career. It's not about money with Bruce, it's about winning. He's probably willing to give up more to win than any other player on the team and possibly in the NBA.

His first year he gave up millions of dollars, played for only 700k, for the chance to start and play for a winner.

[FromWayDowntown]

You know, I look at these cap numbers and the deals the Spurs have made of late and I find myself thinking:

Derek Anderson?????????

It makes me scratch my head. No mal intent to the dude, but this organization is very, very fortunate that it is not burdened by the albatross of the contract that he wanted (or even the "undervalued" deal that the Spurs offered him).

[whottt]

He wanted to be paid more than Drob too...We are lucky we didn't let Drob leave or we probably don't win the title in 03.

We are also fortunate we never signed Chris Webber or Jason Kidd.

[FromWayDowntown]

He wanted to be paid more than Drob too...We are lucky we didn't let Drob leave or we probably don't win the title in 03.

We are also fortunate we never signed Chris Webber or Jason Kidd.

True enough.

[2centsworth]

We are also fortunate we never signed Chris Webber or Jason Kidd.
A healthy Cwebb would be nice to have on any team.

Jason Kidd would look real nice playing for the spurs in this series. Problem was that the spurs lose Manu if they made that deal.

[whottt]

A healthy Cwebb would be nice to have on any team.

I disagree, especially at that time, since neither Webber or Duncan can guard Shaq worth a flip...not to mention Webber is the biggest choker in the history of the world...but even if I didn't...Webber has been playing on a sprained ankle since about 1964...and he got injured in the 03 playoffs.


Plus the karmic wrong we would have done to Drob...we'd have never deserved to win another title.


Jason Kidd would look real nice playing for the spurs in this series. Problem was that the spurs lose Manu if they made that deal.


That...and he's old and breaking down too...just like Webber.

You don't ever sign unenven 30 something players to max 6 year deals.

I was against both of deals and I was right on both of them.

Plus Kidd is a loser...as evidenced by the fact that he chose the situation he is now in.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs will be over the cap next season for sure. They will just have the MLE and then the Early Birds/Birds of certain players to work with.

[whottt]

Are ya'll certain nothing changed with the exceptions?

[Kori Ellis]

Are ya'll certain nothing changed with the exceptions?

I'm not certain because I haven't seen it in writing or heard it from Stern/Hunter. But from what I understand, it hasn't.

I guess we'll know at the press conference at 4pm.

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't imagine that there are huge structural changes in the agreement -- the players conceded on the age issue to an extent and the owners relented on the percentage of BRI that will determine the cap. They apparently also agreed to shorten max deals from 7 years to 6 (if you sign your own) and from 6 to 5 (if you sign someone else's) and to modify the tax structure.

But with those trade-offs, the teams and the players both would want the exceptions to remain in place, so I can't imagine that anyone gave those up.

[whottt]

I am not anticipating they gave any up...but there was talk of splitting the MLE...personally I am not really in favor of that for this offseason. Although that could turn out to be helpful depending on how much interest there is in Robinson...

It's possible we could get Scola and Robinson both with a split MLE.

What am I hoping is that they added an exception for second round picks...I don't think there has been any mention of it...I am just hoping. It would be huge for us this offseason...

It would allow us a good shot and bringing back Robinson AND bringing Scola over...instead of having choose between one or the other(what we will likely have to do).

I think Bigg Dogg helps us now...no telling when or if Scola will start to pay dividends. I want both.

[Kori Ellis]

I am not anticipating they gave any up...but there was talk of splitting the MLE...personally I am not really in favor of that for this offseason.

What am I hoping is that they added an exception for second round picks...I don't think there has been any mention of it...I am just hoping. It would be huge for us this offseason...

I haven't heard anything about them doing the 2/3 1/3 split in a while. So either they setttled on it a while ago, or they nixed it a while ago.

I've heard no mention ever regarding an exception for 2nd round picks.

[FromWayDowntown]

I am not anticipating they gave any up...but there was talk of splitting the MLE...personally I am not really in favor of that for this offseason.

What am I hoping is that they added an exception for second round picks...I don't think there has been any mention of it...I am just hoping. It would be huge for us this offseason...

I see your point; hadn't heard anything about a second round exception, either, but it would be a boon if one magically appeared.


Bigg Dogg

I'm just wondering: at what point did that nickname acquire the second G's in each name. I had always understood Glenn's monniker to be "Big Dog," in the normal sense and not in any hip-hop sense. Though it's not terribly important, I'm honestly curious about that.

I would agree that keeping Glenn Robinson around for next season would probably be more helpful in the short term for the Spurs, but at some point, you have to bring Scola over and now seems to be a prime time for getting that done.

[whottt]

LOL FWDT...

I change the G's around in every post...and if I mention his name in multiple posts I change it around each time.

Sometimes it's Big Dogg others it's Bigg Dog, and still others it's Bigg Dogg...but I never type just Big Dog...and I don't really know why I do that, I think it's got something to do with the two n's in Glenn...and maybe it's because I see Carr as the Big Dog.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://spurs.fc2web.com/img/radoslav_nesterovic.jpg

Get it right Whottt...it's BIG DOGGIE!

[ChumpDumper]

I doubt we'll have enough PT for GRob to want to stick around.

[whottt]

Who knows though? Bigg Dog is younger than Bowen...

Everyone loves Bruce...but I promise you, at 34, Pop is not thinking he's immortal. There is going to be a year where Bruce drops off(although he might still be in better shape than Robinson)...and let's say...before LJIII is ready for prime time...for this dynasty thing Pop is going to need a stop gap...Robinson fits that bill better than anyone I see on the horizon.

I agree Robinson is probably not going to want to stick around in a reduced role(and it's probably stupid to try and get him to do so)...

but at the same time...he hasn't had the impact we thought he would in the playoffs and I think it hurt his offseason stock...there might not be that much interest out there for him. Maybe more that 2 million dollars worth of interest...but not quite an MLE's worth...and if we win the title Robinson might just decide to bide his time for a season and get another ring(if we win this season)...

It's really tough to say how it's going to play out.

[FromWayDowntown]

As limited as the minutes might be, the money will be even more limited.

I respect the role Glenn Robinson has taken with this team and his apparent thankfulness to the Spurs for bailing out his floundering career. I'll root for him from now on, whether he's here or not. But with the composition of this roster and the franchise's position against the cap, I can't see him staying here.

[Spurminator]

I'm just wondering: at what point did that nickname acquire the second G's in each name. I had always understood Glenn's monniker to be "Big Dog," in the normal sense and not in any hip-hop sense. Though it's not terribly important, I'm honestly curious about that.

Probably the resemblence to former hip hop star Nate Dogg.

http://www.eminemitalia.it/images_news/cover_nate_dogg_big.jpg

[whottt]

Pop has a covetous eye for talent, IMO even at expense of character and D...if Robinson has been the team player it seems he's been..IMO Pop is going to be interested. He's still got the J.

[ChumpDumper]

he hasn't had the impact we thought he would in the playoffsI would question whether those expectations were realistic. I simply think the bottom line is GRob thinks he can be a starter next year. If that doesn't happen, I doubt playing in SA behind three or four other swingmen and waiting for Bruce to slow down would fit his idea of improving his stock.

[whottt]

I think our expectations were realistic...Pop said he dropped out of the rotation because he missed virtually all of the Phoenix series...Pop said he was basically starting over. I don't think anyone foresaw Big Dogg's mom passing at that particular time.

[ChumpDumper]

So, more 10mpg and .375 shooting was what we were expecting had his mom not died?

[whottt]

Uh no...more like I was expecting you to not be stupid...which I guess makes me stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

I was asking you about the impact you expected.

Was that the impact you expected in the first two series?

It's a fair question. If you are afraid to answer, that's fine.

[whottt]

Given the minutes and situations he played? Those numbers are certainly understandable...I think we expected his impact to increase as the playoffs progessed...basically just like they did in the regular season. I don't think anyone was expecting him to have to start over in the middle of the playoffs due to a death in his family.

I mean are you surprised he got reset by Pop considering he missed all of the WCF(good reason or not) and was only with the team for like the last 10 games of the regular season?

And he had a nice defensive game in the early part of this series.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Pop probably would've stuck to playing the same kind of situational minutes had he been before -- he was a next-to-last resort and did well enough then. Given the fact he doesn't have plays run for him, etc., I think GRob's shooting was about as good as could be expected -- i.e., only shooting .400 or above 3 out of 9 playoff games.

I like the way he has played for us and I'm thankful he signed -- but it's simply a numbers game at this point -- Bruce, Manu, Brent, Devin, Linton -- and maybe a draft pick next year and Viktor beyond that....that's a long line to be near the end of.

[Kori Ellis]

ChumpDumper, check your PM's please.

[whottt]

Now why didn't you just say that in the first place? I pretty much agree with that.


I don't think Brent is a cetainty to be here next season...nor do I think Devin is. If Devin does return.. I think it's a mistake to not have some kind of protection because of Devin's back as well. Pop is cautious about this sort of thing...

Pop loves Devin...but he's all about the Spurs even when Drob is on the line...he's going to want some high quality insurance at the least. I don't know where LJ III rates with him right now. Based on his offense I don't think that's going to be insurance enough for Pop. I think Grob will be on the Spurs mind until he takes himself out of the picture.

[Kori Ellis]

If Devin does return.. I think it's a mistake to not have some kind of protection because of Devin's back as well. Pop is cautious about this sort of thing...

If Devin gets a multi-year deal from the Spurs, I imagine the 2nd year onward would be team option.

[whottt]

The thing is...I don't think it's a choice between Devin or Grobb...

I think Pop will get all he can and sit someones butt on the bench...

The choice is between Scola and GRob...Scola still has a year on his Euro Contract and is not a proven NBA player...and he plays the position where the true glut is...and there is moving him from that position.

The Spurs IMO might have a choice between a recent All Star Small Forward or an NBA rookie PF...during a title contending year...I think Pop is going to like the possibilities of Robinson on this team...

Horry is gonna be back...if Pop has say in it. TMass is a vet min player who Duncan likes he'll be back.

I can see Pop signing all he can get and sitting some butts on the IR...he's going to do what is best for the Spurs first.


I've never thought that we have a glut at the SF position anyway...

[ChumpDumper]

Unless the CBA changed, only the final year can be at the team's option.

I'd be curious to know if the manner in which career-ending injuries impact the cap has changed at all. It used to be more or less two years before an affected player came off the cap, and I know there was some impetus to change that.

[Kori Ellis]

According to Stern's announcement, there were some changes in the roster numbers. Did anyone catch that/understand what he meant? At one point he said the roster would be 14 (but I don't think he meant instead of the active 12).

[ChumpDumper]

I think Pop will get all he can and sit someones butt on the bench...And I think Devin is willing to live with that.

Not Robinson.

[timvp]

12 active players. 3 man practice squad/injured list.

[whottt]

Unless the CBA changed, only the final year can be at the team's option.

Something changed because teams now have options in the 3rd and 4th year of rookie contracts...

Basically the players got raped in this CBA deal...so it wouldn't surprise me if they lost that perk as well.

[whottt]

And I think Devin is willing to live with that.

Not Robinson.


Right, Barry would probably be willing to do it too(not as willingly as Devin though)...and Robinson is probably the least likely to be asked by Pop to live with it. Robinson is the guy that is only 3 years removed from the All Star Status...he's going to be an attractive option to the Spurs if his attitude has been as good as reported.

If his attitude has been good...I think it's going to be entirely up to him if he wants to be back...I think the Spurs will go the full MLE for him if he wants to be here and come off the bench.

[ChumpDumper]

Something changed because teams now have options in the 3rd and 4th year of rookie contracts.If that applied to this situation, I'd agree. I suppose the years after the first could be partially guaranteed or incentive-based (completed games, etc.), but we haven't gotten to an NFL level of just being able to cut anyone. We'll see what the new CBA says in the next few days.

[Kori Ellis]

I just posted a thread with most of the details on the new CBA. Whott - there was no changes to the MLE.

[timvp]

Has the minor league system been brought up in the forum? If a player has less than two years experience in the league, they can be sent down to the NBDL.

To me, that is awesome. Guys like Romain Sato and Linton Johnson III could play in the NBDL and the Spurs still have their rights. That allows late bloomers (like Manu Ginobili) to grow outside of the NBA environment.

[whottt]

The Spurs have a pretty good minor league system, it's called Europe :smokin


I get your point though...now we can do the same sort of thing with American players and players that we bring over from Europe...I agree it's awesome. For the teams and the players.

[whottt]

I just posted a thread with most of the details on the new CBA. Whott - there was no changes to the MLE.

Thanks Kori...you're a good woman.

[ChumpDumper]

Has the minor league system been brought up in the forum? If a player has less than two years experience in the league, they can be sent down to the NBDL.

To me, that is awesome. Guys like Romain Sato and Linton Johnson III could play in the NBDL and the Spurs still have their rights. That allows late bloomers (like Manu Ginobili) to grow outside of the NBA environment.Absolutely, but I think Lint will have had two years' experience unless there is some kind of injury exception. Might as well bring Viktor over now. I can only assume the Spurs' signees would play in Austin.

[Kori Ellis]

I can only assume the Spurs' signees would play in Austin.

I can only assume that Whottt and ChumpDumper will go to NBDL games together and give us the full report on the players there.

[whottt]

Wait a second...TimVP are you saying the Spurs still retain the rights to my boy Sato under the new deal, and he can develop in the NBDL for another season?

[whottt]

Chump and I had an agreement that the first time we meet it will be to go to a Pro-Wrestling PPV.I guess we'll have to break it. But that will be cool if the Austin gets the Spurs NBDL projects.

That actually would rule...I won't have to spend an entire season with a cut guy in my avatar if that happens.

[ducks]

whott they would lose that
because spurs WAIVED sato
the new cba is not even in place yet
so they lose him
they could pick him back up though

[whottt]

But I guess since he was only drafted a year ago he will still be eligible to be resigned and develop for a year.

[Kori Ellis]

But I guess since he was only drafted a year ago he will still be eligible to be resigned and develop for a year.

Yes, the Spurs could re-sign him and send him down if they choose to do so.

[grjr]

Yes, the Spurs could re-sign him and send him down if they choose to do so.

ANd how do the salaries of players sent to the NBDL affect the teams' salary cap and luxury tax cap? Are they counted or not?