Can the Spurs really beat OKC in the playoffs?

[ChrisRichards]

I understand the Spurs recent ownage of the Thunder which brought the series to 1-1, that was an impressive win and it really brought the Thunder down to earth, but I need to see more proof.


I'm watching this decent Chicago team and how OKC are just pummeling them with no regards. Sure, Rose is absent but the Bulls have been pretty good without him.


OKC has beat all the contenders with ease. Miami, Lakers, Chicago, Dallas and Miami.


They are seriosuly so good, they almost have no weakness. Durant, Westbrook and Harden can torch any perimeter defense. Ibaka, Collison are such great hustle defensive players. Perkins is playing better recently too. Scott Brooks has the teams respect and I like the discipline he instills in these guys. And just in case they need another big time clutch shooter, Fisher is an option, though he's really not needed since Durant and Westbrook are lethal in late game situations.



And, oh, they look like they will have HCA throughout the playoffs and they get tons of calls at home.




People say the West are wide open, but I don;t know if thats true. It looks like the Thunder and then the rest of the competition. Can San Anotnio really beat the Thunder which is a deadlier version of Memphis Grizzlies?

[ElNono]

IIRC, Spurs are 7-2 against them in the last 9 outings....

BUT, I think they're the toughest team in the west, thus I wouldn't want anything to do with them until the WCF if either team gets that far...

[Frenzy]

Every team has fluke wins and loses. Really won't know till the 7 game series.

[Spurs9]

OKC is a very good team but I'll still take the Spurs to win it all. Spurs and OKC in west, and Spurs Miami in finals.

[ElNono]

Let me add that some Spurfan think we have a favorable matchup, more favorable than against the Lakeshow, and I disagree...

[Nathan89]

Can San Anotnio really beat the Thunder which is a deadlier version of Memphis Grizzlies?

Thunder doesn't have offensive bigs to attack our bigs.

Also I like the match-up for Duncan. Perkins is too slow for him and doesn't have the length of Bynum or M.Gasol. Duncan has a size advantage against Ibaka and Collison.

[HarlemHeat37]

OKC is a jump shooting team, like the Spurs..they have no interior scoring to expose the Spurs' primary weakness, which is their interior defense..I'll take the Spurs chances against any jump shooting team, tbh..

My only concern with OKC is officiating..they are the most ref-reliant team in NBA history IMO..we'll see what type of whistle they receive in the post-season..

[NewcastleKEG]

Thunder only weakness is post scoring. So if you can frustrate them inside.....but SA doesn't have the bodies to do that

[Mugen]

we would need HCA and Westbrook to go full Kobe mode to have a legit chance, imo.

[ChrisRichards]

My only concern with OKC is officiating..they are the most ref-reliant team in NBA history IMO..we'll see what type of whistle they receive in the post-season..
So true. This should be a legitimate concern for every team out there. Durant is a foul magnet. Matter of fact, if you wear a Thunder uniform you're automatically entitled to visit the free throw line with minimal contact. Its absurd!


I like how Duncan toyed with Ibaka last time, but can he really do this in a 7 game series? I don't know if Duncan still has "it". Collison and Ibaka, heck the whole team have been pretty brutal inside, defensively.


I don't even want Miami to face them. OKC>Miami in terms of depth. It would take a huge series from lebron and wade to overcome OKC's tremendous depth.

[Stalin]

I take sa over okc in the playoffs, lol using a bulls team without rose as a barometer. Thunder's jumpshooting tendencies will not be as effective in the playoffs, see spurs last year, much good it did them. Also, thunder relative inexperience and westbrook's dumbassery will be exposed in the pressure packed playoffs. Add to all this, the fact that spurs have had good success against them in recent years, gives spurs sufficient advantage, imo, tbh.

[jestersmash]

The season series is at 2-1, not 1-1.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Yes, the Spurs can beat them. I'd take the Spurs to beat all but 2 teams in the West.

[BUMP]

tbh even though Dallas lost the season series against OKC, it could easily be 3-1 Dallas. I'm definitely not a big believer in us making a serious run but I actually think we could beat OKC because of matchups.

[jag]

The Grizz and Lakers are the two teams that I would favor over the Spurs. A healthy Rudy Gay would really help the Spurs. And this version of Kobe would also be a huge weapon for the Spurs to shut down Bynum/Gasol. If Kobe gets injured or goes down, then the Spurs have no shot against LA.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

The Grizz and Lakers are the two teams that I would favor over the Spurs.

:tu

[Killakobe81]

I understand the Spurs recent ownage of the Thunder which brought the series to 1-1, that was an impressive win and it really brought the Thunder down to earth, but I need to see more proof.


I'm watching this decent Chicago team and how OKC are just pummeling them with no regards. Sure, Rose is absent but the Bulls have been pretty good without him.


OKC has beat all the contenders with ease. Miami, Lakers, Chicago, Dallas and Miami.


They are seriosuly so good, they almost have no weakness. Durant, Westbrook and Harden can torch any perimeter defense. Ibaka, Collison are such great hustle defensive players. Perkins is playing better recently too. Scott Brooks has the teams respect and I like the discipline he instills in these guys. And just in case they need another big time clutch shooter, Fisher is an option, though he's really not needed since Durant and Westbrook are lethal in late game situations.



And, oh, they look like they will have HCA throughout the playoffs and they get tons of calls at home.




People say the West are wide open, but I don;t know if thats true. It looks like the Thunder and then the rest of the competition. Can San Anotnio really beat the Thunder which is a deadlier version of Memphis Grizzlies?

CR I have been saying the same thing ...
Obviously Westbrook is key of course, because we know KD will score.
But as you point out they get so many calls especially at home. The foul call on Pau was typical (and Im not even mad because at least teh refs are consistent) of the calls they get AGAINST everyone.
Perkins gives them a thug. Collison takes the charges and Ibaka blocks everything within reach. Perk Westbrook and Ibaka have improved their mid-range. Like I said in the game thread people on here have been dismissing OKC even more than the Spurs as title contenders.

I dont see anyone in the West beating them we had to play well just to hang with them for 2.5 quarters. Also dont forget that Dfish is a noted spur killer and I agree Magic and Wilbon having Fisher and Perk as leaders is great.

I thought they were the best in the West but lacked experience, but now i think they are legit title contenders.

[endrity]

Meh, I think we can beat them. I am not very convinced of the Zombie Sonics at all.

If Kobe doesn't take 50 shots a game and they actually pound the ball inside the Lakers are still a more dangerous team.

[Nathan89]

The Grizz and Lakers are the two teams that I would favor over the Spurs. A healthy Rudy Gay would really help the Spurs. And this version of Kobe would also be a huge weapon for the Spurs to shut down Bynum/Gasol. If Kobe gets injured or goes down, then the Spurs have no shot against LA.

If Kobe got injured Spurs would win the series. If Kobe started passing we would probably lose.

[ChrisRichards]

I take sa over okc in the playoffs, lol using a bulls team without rose as a barometer. Thunder's jumpshooting tendencies will not be as effective in the playoffs, see spurs last year, much good it did them. Also, thunder relative inexperience and westbrook's dumbassery will be exposed in the pressure packed playoffs. Add to all this, the fact that spurs have had good success against them in recent years, gives spurs sufficient advantage, imo, tbh.
The Bulls was not the barometer. I was actually impressed when they beat Miami and then beating the Lakers for the second time in Staples. The Lakers were really prepared for that game and they wanted to win that game (ask Giuseppe) but OKC came there and just embarassed them.

[Killakobe81]

Let me add that some Spurfan think we have a favorable matchup, more favorable than against the Lakeshow, and I disagree...

Because the average Spur fan (Laker fan too) are dumb ...

[ChrisRichards]

Meh, I think we can beat them. I am not very convinced of the Zombie Sonics at all.

If Kobe doesn't take 50 shots a game and they actually pound the ball inside the Lakers are still a more dangerous team.

If Kobe plays that way, it will be close. I'd still pick OKC over the Lakers in 6 or perhaps 7 games. They too good at home and like Harlem said, this team gets tons of calls.

[jag]

Griz and Lakers have something the Mavs, Thunder, Clippers, etc don't have, skilled size on both ends of the floor. The Spurs genuinely have that with Duncan/Splitter playing together, but they aren't at the level of Randolph/Gasol or Gasol/Bynum. And Tiago and Duncan probably won't see floor time together so it doesn't really matter. If the Spurs sent out Tiago-Tim-Kawhi/Jackson-Manu-Tony then I'd at least feel like they have a shot. But sadly we'd probably see Blair and Bonner playing important minutes and that's just not going to compete with the opposing lineups of Memphis and LA.

[endrity]

If Kobe plays that way, it will be close. I'd still pick OKC over the Lakers in 6 or perhaps 7 games. They too good at home and like Harlem said, this team gets tons of calls.

Well OKC's speed gives the Lakers some problems. But the Mavs seem to be able to live with that. The games OKC has won over us this year, one was on a bs Durant 3pointer at the buzzer, and the other with same shady calls in the last minutes.

Just saying, we play them very tough.

My dream Mavs playoff route right now would be: a 4th seed playing against the clippers, then okc in the 2nd, and then the survivor of the LA-SA-Grizz part of the bracket. I think that part is much tougher and I want the Mavs to skip those teams for as long as possible.

[Sportstudi]

My only concern with OKC is officiating..they are the most ref-reliant team in NBA history IMO..we'll see what type of whistle they receive in the post-season..

Correct. And their "fans" are as bad, too. I recall the last Mavs game vs. OKC. The Thunder went to the line 33 times and the Mavs just 10, but some OKC fans were still complaining after the game the refs didn't call every "foul" the Mavs "committed". Pure crap. Based on the opinion of OKC fans it seems that every game in which the Thunder don't get +30 FTA and the other team gets much less is rigged... :rolleyes

Honestly, if the Spurs face OKC in the playoffs, I'll keep my fingers crossed for the Spurs. I don't like them, but I hate OKC even more. There is no other team protected by the refs as much as OKC (not even Miami).

Free Throw Attempts

1. Dwight Howard-ORL 551
2. Kevin Love-MIN 421
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 416
4. LeBron James-MIA 387
5. Blake Griffin-LAC 384
6. Kevin Durant-OKC 374
7. John Wall-WAS 318
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 310
9. James Harden-OKC 305
10. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 292

Can't recall the last time 3 players from the same team being in the Top 10 of FTA.

[jag]

One thing I genuinely like about Gay is that he sometimes keeps Randolph and Gasol from getting in a good rhythm. I'd rather Gay get hot and do his thing, or him do his chucking thing, than Gasol and Randolph get their two-man hi-lo post game going.

[midnightpulp]

Because the average Spur fan (Laker fan too) are dumb ...

I think we match up much better with Los Angeles than OKC. I do fear the Lakers simply out of respect. The Lakers could lose 10 straight and look like a lottery team, but you can always count on them playing the Spurs tough as nails. In a vacuum, the Spurs should beat the Lakers in a 7 game series. Lakers fans and Spurs thinking LA is the favorite still think this is 2009. I expect Bynum to be huge, but Gasol and Kobe these days are wildcards. I expect Duncan and Gasol to play to a draw. Parker will outplay Sessions. Leonard will outplay Artest. And the Spurs bench will slaughter their Lakers counterpart.

[Killakobe81]

Correct. And their "fans" are as bad, too. I recall the last Mavs game vs. OKC. The Thunder went to the line 33 times and the Mavs just 10, but some OKC fans were still complaining after the game the refs didn't call every "foul" the Mavs "committed". Pure crap. Based on the opinion of OKC fans it seems that every game in which the Thunder don't get +30 FTA and the other team gets much less is rigged... :rolleyes

Honestly, if the Spurs face OKC in the playoffs, I'll keep my fingers crossed for the Spurs. I don't like them, but I hate OKC even more. There is no other team protected by the refs as much as OKC (not even Miami).

Free Throw Attempts

1. Dwight Howard-ORL 551
2. Kevin Love-MIN 421
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 416
4. LeBron James-MIA 387
5. Blake Griffin-LAC 384
6. Kevin Durant-OKC 374
7. John Wall-WAS 318
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 310
9. James Harden-OKC 305
10. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 292

Can't recall the last time 3 players from the same team being in the Top 10 of FTA.

I know he plays starter minutes, but jeez. IF harden is getting THAT many FT's ...you are screwed :rollin

[jestersmash]

If Kobe got injured Spurs would win the series. If Kobe started passing we would probably lose.

Wait, did you say that right?

If Kobe was injured, there's a good chance that Spurs would lose to the Lakers. They'd be forced to play more inside-out, and Bynum would get at least twice the touches that he currently gets (someone of his caliber averaging 12 FGA per game is absolutely ludicrous).

Kobe to me right now is a cancer to L.A.'s attempt to play unselfish, team basketball and it greatly works to our favor.

[Stalin]

I understand the Spurs recent ownage of the Thunder which brought the series to 1-1, that was an impressive win and it really brought the Thunder down to earth, but I need to see more proof.


I'm watching this decent Chicago team and how OKC are just pummeling them with no regards. Sure, Rose is absent but the Bulls have been pretty good without him.


OKC has beat all the contenders with ease. Miami, Lakers, Chicago, Dallas and Miami.


They are seriosuly so good, they almost have no weakness. Durant, Westbrook and Harden can torch any perimeter defense. Ibaka, Collison are such great hustle defensive players. Perkins is playing better recently too. Scott Brooks has the teams respect and I like the discipline he instills in these guys. And just in case they need another big time clutch shooter, Fisher is an option, though he's really not needed since Durant and Westbrook are lethal in late game situations.



And, oh, they look like they will have HCA throughout the playoffs and they get tons of calls at home.




People say the West are wide open, but I don;t know if thats true. It looks like the Thunder and then the rest of the competition. Can San Anotnio really beat the Thunder which is a deadlier version of Memphis Grizzlies?


brah its 2-1 not 1-1

you're clearly using a bulls team without rose to support you claim that thunder are teh best in the west, tbh

grizz advantage was their interior scoring last year, thunder are a jumpshooting team, scrah


:lol Dallas=contender
:lol fluke championship
:lol TOSB Dirk
:lol worst defending champs in history of the nba
:lol who needs chandler?

[jestersmash]

I know he plays starter minutes, but jeez. IF harden is getting THAT many FT's ...you are screwed :rollin

And he's only 22 years old. OKC to me is poised to become the dynasty of this decade.

[Proxy]

Let me add that some Spurfan think we have a favorable matchup, more favorable than against the Lakeshow, and I disagree...

I would say that mostly has to do with the bad taste from the MEM series, and leading OKC by 20+ points in both of SAS' victories this year. I'm hesitant on which I'd rather the Spurs see... losing Odom does make a big difference, and they still don't have a bench, but Bynum and Pau don't excite me. I'd put my money on Kawhi and Jack slowing Durant down over hoping for a fantasy Timmy/Tiago combo that Pop never plays going against LA's bigs.

[Killakobe81]

I think we match up much better with Los Angeles than OKC. I do fear the Lakers simply out of respect. The Lakers could lose 10 straight and look like a lottery team, but you can always count on them playing the Spurs tough as nails. In a vacuum, the Spurs should beat the Lakers in a 7 game series. Lakers fans and Spurs thinking LA is the favorite still think this is 2009. I expect Bynum to be huge, but Gasol and Kobe these days are wildcards. I expect Duncan and Gasol to play to a draw. Parker will outplay Sessions. Leonard will outplay Artest. And the Spurs bench will slaughter their Lakers counterpart.

Yep though Bynum is better than 2009-2010 ... Lakers are worse.
Kobe and Pau are older and on the decline.
Our bench is shitty.
Artest good bit not as good defensively. But is an abortion on offense.
And we went from Phil who owned Pop, to the black sheep of Pop's coaching family tree ...

For us to beat the Spurs, Kobe an dPau would both need to go off Artest would have to not brick every open jumper.

[endrity]

Correct. And their "fans" are as bad, too. I recall the last Mavs game vs. OKC. The Thunder went to the line 33 times and the Mavs just 10, but some OKC fans were still complaining after the game the refs didn't call every "foul" the Mavs "committed". Pure crap. Based on the opinion of OKC fans it seems that every game in which the Thunder don't get +30 FTA and the other team gets much less is rigged... :rolleyes

Honestly, if the Spurs face OKC in the playoffs, I'll keep my fingers crossed for the Spurs. I don't like them, but I hate OKC even more. There is no other team protected by the refs as much as OKC (not even Miami).

Free Throw Attempts

1. Dwight Howard-ORL 551
2. Kevin Love-MIN 421
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 416
4. LeBron James-MIA 387
5. Blake Griffin-LAC 384
6. Kevin Durant-OKC 374
7. John Wall-WAS 318
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 310
9. James Harden-OKC 305
10. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 292

Can't recall the last time 3 players from the same team being in the Top 10 of FTA.

wow, that's pretty revealing right there

[irishock]

Better question is can OKC beat any opponent in the playoffs not named Denver and Memphis. They'd even have trouble against LA and Dallas, because their PG is a chucker and they have an idiot coach.

[jag]

Wait, did you say that right?

If Kobe was injured, there's a good chance that Spurs would lose to the Lakers. They'd be forced to play more inside-out, and Bynum would get at least twice the touches that he currently gets (someone of his caliber averaging 12 FGA per game is absolutely ludicrous).

Kobe to me right now is a cancer to L.A.'s attempt to play unselfish, team basketball and it greatly works to our favor.

Yep. Not sure how Kobe shooting 20-40% with 3apg would do anything but help the Spurs' chances.

[Stalin]

The Bulls was not the barometer. I was actually impressed when they beat Miami and then beating the Lakers for the second time in Staples. The Lakers were really prepared for that game and they wanted to win that game (ask Giuseppe) but OKC came there and just embarassed them.

anyone has a chance at staples, tbh

[Killakobe81]

And he's only 22 years old. OKC to me is poised to become the dynasty of this decade.

No they won't. Because both Harden and Ibaka will command Huge raises and if they did win a title ... the agemst wil price them even higher. No way OKC will go to lux tax to keep their core. Perk, Rus and Durant all making big money already.

[jestersmash]

Yep though Bynum is better than 2009-2010 ... Lakers are worse.
Kobe and Pau are older and on the decline.
Our bench is shitty.
Artest good bit not as good defensively. But is an abortion on offense.
And we went from Phil who owned Pop, to the black sheep of Pop's coaching family tree ...

For us to beat the Spurs, Kobe an dPau would both need to go off Artest would have to not brick every open jumper.

Kobe doesn't need to go off offensively (PPG-wise) for the Lakers to beat the Spurs. Kobe simply needs to accept his role as a 2nd option (tied with Pau) behind Bynum and the Lakers would dominate the Spurs. Duncan nor Splitter are capable of effectively shutting Bynum down, but mark my words if we were ever to meet in the playoffs, a typical game for Bynum would be 9-12, 4-6 FTs for 22 points while Kobe goes 11-25 or something and the Spurs end up winning by 6 or 7.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe doesn't need to go off offensively (PPG-wise) for the Lakers to beat the Spurs. Kobe simply needs to accept his role as a 2nd option (tied with Pau) behind Bynum and the Lakers would dominate the Spurs. Duncan nor Splitter are capable of effectively shutting Bynum down, but mark my words if we were ever to meet in the playoffs, a typical game for Bynum would be 9-12, 4-6 FTs for 22 points while Kobe goes 11-25 or something and the Spurs end up winning by 6 or 7.

I agree we need to play inside out, but Bynum is not a good enough passer to run our offens ethrough against better defensive teams. Not sure Spurs are exactly that but Pop is one of teh best coaches in the game. IF we fed bynum constant my guess is Pop would send either Manu or Lenard to double Bynum and they would make scoring tough. We dont shoot well enough from 3 to make you guys pay.

Kobe will be fine in the playoffs. My only concern which Lngrr called early on is the fact Brown has run him and Pau in to the ground ...

[Killakobe81]

And it's a falsehood to say we dont need Kobe to score to beat a better playoff team. where are we gonna get scoring from? Pau can gets us 20 and if featured maybe Bynum gets us 30. I think Sessions can get us 12 but who else is gonna score consistently? Artest? Blake? Mcroberts?
It's so easy to say Kobe shouldnt shoot but who else is gonna shoot? I agree Kobe shoots too much but we NEED his scoring to say otherwise means you must not watch a lot of Laker games ...

[Stalin]

okc just beat a bulls team without rose that only shot 33% from the field by 14, yeah thats a real pummeling, spurfan better curl up in the fetal position after such a dominating performance by Acne and Co.

[Killakobe81]

Oh and Lakers are NOT contenders ...

[jestersmash]

I agree we need to play inside out, but Bynum is not a good enough passer to run our offens ethrough against better defensive teams. Not sure Spurs are exactly that but Pop is one of teh best coaches in the game. IF we fed bynum constant my guess is Pop would send either Manu or Lenard to double Bynum and they would make scoring tough. We dont shoot well enough from 3 to make you guys pay.

Kobe will be fine in the playoffs. My only concern which Lngrr called early on is the fact Brown has run him and Pau in to the ground ...

We're not. Defensively we're slightly better than average. Same with OKC. Same with L.A.

OKC ranks 1st in offense, 12th in defense
Spurs rank 3rd in offense, 13th in defense
L.A. ranks 12th in offense, 10th in defense

These are all pace-adjusted, and they're pretty consistent with what I've seen from all 3 teams. The Lakers offense looks downright anemic at times.

If you guys (from now until the end of the season) muster up a couple of consistent 3 point shooters (32-35% when they're open/semi-open would be sufficient) and you guys started playing more inside out with Bynum as the focal piece (I agree that Bynum isn't that good of a passer yet, but this is something he has 15 or 16 games to work on if Lakers so choose to do so), you guys would have a great chance to go deep into the playoffs.

Would you guys win it all if you played more inside out, team-oriented "open man gets the shot period Spurs-like" basketball? Probably not, but you'd have a better chance of at least making it to the WCF and who knows, you could always have a game or two where luck is on your side.

The thing is, I think Kobe kind of realizes this. Kobe to me strikes me as the kind of person that (at this point in his career) is thinking "Right now we really don't have a shot at a ring with me as the 1st option. If I played more of a facilitator role, we'd have a better chance of going deeper into the playoffs but we still wouldn't be the favorites. Thus, I'm just going to get my numbers and chase records at this point in my career."

In other words, as far as list of priorities go, Kobe's thought process is -

1) Have solid chance to win championship as 1st option (with high PPG)
2) Chase records as 1st option
3) Have marginal chance to win championship as 2nd option
4) Have solid chance to go deep into playoffs as 2nd option

It's as though in Kobe's mind, he's thinking "1 is totally unlikely," and as far as priorities go, he strikes me as the person who would rather chase M.J.'s scoring record than give his entire team a 5-10% better chance of winning a ring or going deep in the playoffs.

If Kobe willingly took more of a facilitator role as the 2nd option and Lakers ended up losing in the WCF, say, I feel like Kobe would be thinking "god damnit I probably could've averaged 5 or 10 more PPG and I'd be closer to M.J.'s record right now." It sounds ridiculous to the point of trolling, but that's honestly how non-Laker fans perceive Kobe at this point.

Of course, if he can win a ring this year, that'd be wonderful, but that's just gravy for him at this point.

[DAF86]

First: the season series is 2-1 for the Spurs not 1-1.
Second: Last season a lesser Spurs team swept the series against this same OKC roster 3-0.

It's obvious there's a matchup problem there for OKC. What I can think of of the top of my head:

-OKC depends a lot on FTs, the Spurs are the team that foul the least.

-We have a matchup advantage with the bigs (no, I'm not saying Bonner > Ibaka. Let me explain). Brooks has to select between putting Ibaka on Duncan or the stretch 4 (Bonner/Diaw/Jackson/Leonard). He's too small to guard Duncan and if he's in the perimiter guarding the other "big" he can't be as big a threat as he usually is challenging shots inside.

-Jackson and Leonard seem like very good Durant defenders.

-OKC's young players aren't particulary good at defending the pick and roll/motion/spacing offense the Spurs run.

I would feel very confident facing OKC. Lakers and Mavs are still the team that I most fear in the West.

[jestersmash]

And it's a falsehood to say we dont need Kobe to score to beat a better playoff team. where are we gonna get scoring from? Pau can gets us 20 and if featured maybe Bynum gets us 30. I think Sessions can get us 12 but who else is gonna score consistently? Artest? Blake? Mcroberts?
It's so easy to say Kobe shouldnt shoot but who else is gonna shoot? I agree Kobe shoots too much but we NEED his scoring to say otherwise means you must not watch a lot of Laker games ...

I think your role players' scoring averages would each go up by a couple of PPG if Kobe played the "right way" consistently for 48 minutes.

Steve Blake may objectively be one of the worst (overall) players in the NBA, but he's still an NBA player. You give an NBA player a wide open 3 point off good penetration/passing, more often than not he'll shoot at minimum around 28-30%.

If you don't buy this, take Stephen Jackson as an interesting test case. SJax was averaging 27.8% from 3 point land with the Bucks. Now that he's in the Spurs system, he's getting wide open 3 point looks and is now averaging the 3rd highest 3P% for his career (@ 34.8). He also has the highest FG% of his career with the Spurs to date (@ 47.2%).

He was 35.7% from the field overall with the Bucks, and he's 41.6% from the field overall for his career. Why the sudden jump in FG% and 3P%? Because the Spurs system consistently gets him wide open or semi-open looks. I think maybe once per game Pop will call an iso for Jackson and that'll be his toughest shot attempt of the night (but even on iso's he can score at a fairly good clip). Other than that, he stays within the system and follows the Spurs' philosophy of "open man gets the shot" and "pass up 'good' looks for 'great' looks, regardless of who you're passing to" to a T.

Ginobili would rather give up a "good" look on a hard drive to the rim to give, say, Matt Bonner a "great" wide open look from 3 point land. It's precisely this kind of philosophy that has the Spurs sitting 3rd in offense in the league right now. I think the Lakers could easily follow suit if Kobe was willing to buy into that kind of system.

[Killakobe81]

We're not. Defensively we're slightly better than average. Same with OKC. Same with L.A.

OKC ranks 1st in offense, 12th in defense
Spurs rank 3rd in offense, 13th in defense
L.A. ranks 12th in offense, 10th in defense

These are all pace-adjusted, and they're pretty consistent with what I've seen from all 3 teams. The Lakers offense looks downright anemic at times.

If you guys (from now until the end of the season) muster up a couple of consistent 3 point shooters (32-35% when they're open/semi-open would be sufficient) and you guys started playing more inside out with Bynum as the focal piece (I agree that Bynum isn't that good of a passer yet, but this is something he has 15 or 16 games to work on if Lakers so choose to do so), you guys would have a great chance to go deep into the playoffs.

Would you guys win it all if you played more inside out, team-oriented "open man gets the shot period Spurs-like" basketball? Probably not, but you'd have a better chance of at least making it to the WCF and who knows, you could always have a game or two where luck is on your side.

The thing is, I think Kobe kind of realizes this. Kobe to me strikes me as the kind of person that (at this point in his career) is thinking "Right now we really don't have a shot at a ring with me as the 1st option. If I played more of a facilitator role, we'd have a better chance of going deeper into the playoffs but we still wouldn't be the favorites. Thus, I'm just going to get my numbers and chase records at this point in my career."

In other words, as far as list of priorities go, Kobe's thought process is -

1) Have solid chance to win championship as 1st option (with high PPG)
2) Chase records as 1st option
3) Have marginal chance to win championship as 2nd option
4) Have solid chance to go deep into playoffs as 2nd option

It's as though in Kobe's mind, he's thinking "1 is totally unlikely," and as far as priorities go, he strikes me as the person who would rather chase M.J.'s scoring record than give his entire team a 5-10% better chance of winning a ring or going deep in the playoffs.

If Kobe willingly took more of a facilitator role as the 2nd option and Lakers ended up losing in the WCF, say, I feel like Kobe would be thinking "god damnit I probably could've averaged 5 or 10 more PPG and I'd be closer to M.J.'s record right now." It sounds ridiculous to the point of trolling, but that's honestly how non-Laker fans perceive Kobe at this point.

Of course, if he can win a ring this year, that'd be wonderful, but that's just gravy for him at this point.

Not a bad post ...but I could do without the psycho-analysis bullshit. I doubt you have a degree in psych ..and even if you did ... you do not know Kobe and neither do I.
Maybe you are righ,t but when it comes to ball I just hate all of the specualtive mind state analysis. That being said you bring some great points ... even though I agree about playing inside out, you guys do have better ball movement, passers and coaching. It doesnt change the fact that the Spurs have better bench talent as well. Even with Pop as coach it wouldnt fix Artest's broken jumper or instill confidence in Murphy of confidence in Blake.

I ahve accepted the team is not a contender. I just dont get why others wont admit on here and on LG.

[DAF86]

Not a bad post ...but I could do without the psycho-analysis bullshit. I doubt you have a degree in psych ..and even if you did ... you do not know Kobe and neither do I.
Maybe you are righ,t but when it comes to ball I just hate all of the specualtive mind state analysis. That being said you bring some great points ... even though I agree about playing inside out, you guys do have better ball movement, passers and coaching. It doesnt change the fact that the Spurs have better bench talent as well. Even with Pop as coach it wouldnt fix Artest's broken jumper or instill confidence in Murphy of confidence in Blake.

I ahve accepted the team is not a contender. I just dont get why others wont admit on here and on LG.

Because they are contenders. They're 3rd in the West and have a matchup advantage over number 2. So there's a big chance they make the WCF. If a WCFinalist isn't contender I don't know what is.

[DPG21920]

Lakers are certainly contenders. If you have a shot at making the conference finals, you are a contender. LA clearly has a shot to make to the WCF.

Spurs can beat OKC, but they would not be favorites at all in the series and it would take mistake free ball to beat them in a 7 game series. Yes, the Spurs match up better in a classical sense against OKC rather than LA/MEM, but OKC presents a lot of tough issues for the Spurs and OKC's defense is much more solid when focused than the Spurs.

That's what people get caught up in - just because you can pick and say team x is better than team y, doesn't mean the gaps are large. In the West, there is very little gap considering strengths and weaknesses in the top 4-5 teams.

[jag]

Not a bad post ...but I could do without the psycho-analysis bullshit. I doubt you have a degree in psych ..and even if you did ... you do not know Kobe and neither do.

It doesn't take a silly/worthless degree is psychology to be able to pick up on what Kobe is doing right now. There's a reason he leads the league in ppg and it isn't because he's the best scorer in the league and it also isn't because he needs to lead his team in scoring.

Unless you think Kobe is stupid (I certainly don't) then you have to believe he knows exactly what everyone else with eyes and a TV knows; he's been holding that team back and has stunted the growth of Bynum while also messing with team chemistry to chase stats. The fact that he keeps doing so speaks volumes to what he's really interested in.

[jestersmash]

I doubt you have a degree in psych

I don't, but tbh a psych degree is virtually useless anyway :lol. Having a psych degree doesn't give anyone the ability to read minds or delve into the thought processes of people.

What I said about Kobe is pure speculation - I'll happily admit that. But it's somewhat grounded in the dynamic I see on the court between him and Bynum.

Just look over Bynum's game log for a second - http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrew_bynum/game_by_game_stats.html

Loss to OKC. Bynum 10-15, Kobe 7-25
Loss to Memphis, Bynum 11-16, Kobe 7-15 (this one isn't as bad)
Loss to Houston (by 3), Bynum 7-11, Kobe 10-27
Loss to Utah (by 4), Bynum 12-14, Kobe 3-20

The trend is still evident even when you guys are winning -

Win in Memphis (barely - by 5), Bynum 15-18, Kobe 11-25
Win in MIN (by 3), Bynum 11-15, Kobe 11-26

I promise I'm not trying to go out of my way to make Kobe look bad. I've literally picked these games randomly (looking for games where Bynum missed only a couple of shots and appeared to have far less shot attempts than he probably should have had based on the flow of the game), and Kobe's stat line pretty much speaks for itself.

I'm trying to make sense of those stat lines. What kind of person allows his big man to go 12-14 while he shoots 3-20. I didn't watch that game specifically, but like George Karl would say, if you're consistently going 12-14 or 10-15 or 11-16, you need more shots.

Kobe can plainly see how efficient and dominant Bynum can be in the low post, and what does he do in respone? He's averaging the highest FGA in his career since the '05-'06 season @ 23.4 FGA per game (compared to Bynum's anemic 12 FGA per game).

I know you're a hardcore Kobe fan but....you do notice this trend right?

[Trainwreck2100]

understand the Spurs recent ownage of the Thunder which brought the series to 1-1
stopped reading there

[Killakobe81]

Not a hardcore Kobe fan ...hardcore Lakers yes. Sure Kobe shoots too much always has I just don't. Don't like arm chair psychology ...doesn't matter why Kobe shoots too much only that he does ...

[ffadicted]

Westbrick will doom the Thunder, everybody knows it

[Muser]

Spurs in 6.

[Robz4000]

Thunder have flaws the Spurs have the personnel to exploit. Will be a tough series and might be dependent on how much help the refs give OKC, but in the end Spurs in 4.

[jestersmash]

Westbrick will doom the Thunder, everybody knows it

I think this criticism is overblown.

He's 47.7% from the field this season.

Yes, Durant is slightly above @ 50% this season (TS% tells a similar story, Durant TS% = 60 compared to Westbrook TS% = 55), but Westbrook isn't exactly a liability on the offensive end. He's arguably one of the top 10 or 15 players in the league right now. If you're going to criticize West"brick" for shooting 47.7% from the field when there's a better option available (Durant), why not make the same criticism about Dwayne Wade, for example?

I think people are falling into the trap of confirmation bias when it comes to Westbrook. They've heard this "Westbrick" meme go around, and so they tend to remember his key misses while conveniently forgetting the fact that he's still fairly efficient from the field.

[Spursfan092120]

1-1? You started a thread with that shit? Spurs are 2-1 this year against OKC. We favorably matchup against them.

[Goran Dragic]

I think this criticism is overblown.

He's 47.7% from the field this season.

Yes, Durant is slightly above @ 50% this season (TS% tells a similar story, Durant TS% = 60 compared to Westbrook TS% = 55), but Westbrook isn't exactly a liability on the offensive end. He's arguably one of the top 10 or 15 players in the league right now. If you're going to criticize West"brick" for shooting 47.7% from the field when there's a better option available (Durant), why not make the same criticism about Dwayne Wade, for example?

I think people are falling into the trap of confirmation bias when it comes to Westbrook. They've heard this "Westbrick" meme go around, and so they tend to remember his key misses while conveniently forgetting the fact that he's still fairly efficient from the field.
Westbrook's regular season FG% isn't what got him the nickname Westbrick. His performance during the 4th quarter of WCF games last year did. In the playoffs when he's facing a team that has quality big men who stop him from finishing at the rim, his efficiency plummets.

[Goran Dragic]

Can San Anotnio really beat the Thunder which is a deadlier version of Memphis Grizzlies?
:lol people who seriously responded to this

[Latarian Milton]

OKC niggas struggle against experienced teams and even though they're talented as fuck the WCF remains as their ceiling, they made WCF last season but neither of the two they conquered in the prior rounds was an experienced team like spurs/lakers/mavs tbh

[TD 21]

They absolutely can beat them. This reminds me of the Cavs-Magic in '09. The Cavs were the favorites, they had the next one and people were ready to anoint them because they had pre-determined that it was "their time". When in reality, the Magic had handled them for a few seasons running. Yet that was largely ignored. Fast forward three years and we have the West version of that.

The Thunder overwhelm most teams with their explosive offense, but the Spurs aren't one of those teams. Not only do they not overwhelm them, but the Spurs actually have far superior scoring depth. Many claim this doesn't mean as much in the playoffs, but that's only true if your rotation is going to drastically change; I don't believe the Spurs' will. They'll continue to play 9-10 guys for more than spot minutes. And it's not like the Thunder's stars can play much more than they did in those two defeats. So I don't buy that that advantage will be mitigated to a large extent.

The other thing the Spurs have in their favor is, their greatest weaknesses are their lack of a closing PF and defending bigs who are proficient with their back to the basket (particularly those with girth). But against the Thunder, who generally close with Durant at PF, the former is irrelevant. The Spurs can simply slide Leonard -- who's defend Durant well this season, by the way -- to PF and play Jackson at the three. The latter is also irrelevant, as the Thunder don't have a single big who fits the description I talked about.

Most impressive about the Spurs wins over them this season is that they came without Ginobili. While the Thunder, as usual, weren't missing a key player.

[jestersmash]

OKC niggas struggle against experienced teams and even though they're talented as fuck the WCF remains as their ceiling, they made WCF last season but neither of the two they conquered in the prior rounds was an experienced team like spurs/lakers/mavs tbh

Not to mention Memphis took OKC to 7 games.