Not just an RJ-bashing thread - ould we ever look like this with him on the roster?

[GSH]

The Spurs were aggressive tonight, from the top of the roster to the bottom. Yes, it was against the Cavs, but this Spurs team is able to attack from every single position on the floor. And that makes it hard for the other team to hide a player who doesn't defend very well, or for any defender to sag off his own man without getting punished for it.

For the last 3 seasons, the Spurs have had Richard Jefferson on the floor for about 60% of all their minutes played. I don't want to sound like RJ had no positives - he did. But he rarely caused a lot of stress to opposing defenses. If he happened to be hitting 3's that night, they just had to remember to close out occasionally. But in all the time he was here, I don't remember the Spurs offense looking as aggressive or threatening as it did tonight. I think it's the result of having that one soft spot on the floor, for more than half the games.

I said that this thread wasn't about bashing RJ, and it isn't. What it is about is that this team is loaded with real-life badasses now. It's getting so that there's no place to hide when you step on the court against this crew. Blair has his defensive problems, but when he's on the floor with Duncan it's manageable. Green can be inconsistent, but nobody can say he plays soft or weak. And Bonner - well, when that's the weakest link on your bench, you're pretty damned deep.

[slick'81]

its like timvp said once he was gone it was like a black cloud was lifted from the spurs

[100%duncan]

I think you know the answer. Please forget about him and get him out of your fucking heads

[justinandimcool]

RJ's problem wasn't that he was a mental midget or inconsistent, it's that he wasn't versatile. He wasn't comfortable off the dribble, he was terrible getting into the paint, he wasn't good defensively.

We have 2 other players like this- Blair and Bonner. But like you said, Blair is masked by Duncan's strengths, not to mention he is pretty good at finishing around the rim, which RJ isn't. Bonner is better at getting himself open than RJ was, already making him more valuable. When it comes to being one dimensional, RJ was the most difficult problem to mask. Jackson is a threat to score off the dribble, catch and shoot, is better at moving the ball because of his ability to space the floor often- he is more dangerous from more parts of the court, rather than just the corner and wing like Dick.

[MmP]

It's just incredible how team's mentality changed. I feel sorry for RJ, he tried, but I love this team, after the trade. Not just because of the players, but because somehow I can't explain, seems better. I just can't believe RJ took away this much.

[letmk]

It's more of starting Kawhi than having RJ. You could say it's hard for Pop to not start RJ when he was here, but still, it's coaching decision up to Pop. Bottom line, until now Jack is not that much better than RJ, or at least Jack is not the main reason Spurs seems more formidable. (Besides the aforementioned Kawhi starting, there are Manu back, and two other new additions.)

Also, not trying to ruin the party, but we should at least wait until after tomorrow's game against the Celtics, even if we put aside the fact that regular-reason does not make it or break it for the Spurs, i.e., see last season.

[angelbelow]

Not a chance.

The goods that RJ provided for us while he was here:
-Professionalism
-Athleticism
-3pt Shooting

All 3 were easily replaceable either by other player or by committee. For example:

Professionalism: By committee. Pop runs a tight shift and Duncan leads by example. It also helps quite a bit when a player with Jackson's reputation comes in a buys into the system so flawlessly.

Athleticism: Actually as I'm typing this, I'm not sure if RJ was able to utilize his athleticism outside a few big time dunks. He wasn't able to transition to a capable defender nor was he able to penetrator from the perimeter. Leonard has already proven to be more effect than RJ from an athletic standpoint. Hes the superior rebounder, defender, and hes even the better finisher this year.

3pt shooting - RJ actually shot a respectable 42% from downtown. I don't think Jackson, Diaw, or Mills will match his accuracy but RJ's departure doesn't hurt our 3 point potency. We simply have too many weapons from beyond the arc to matter.

Any positive contributions that RJ made during his time with the Spurs was easily replaced by freeing up his minutes and playing others more. Don't think we even need to touch on his negatives to see how much better our team is without him.

[justinandimcool]

It's just incredible how team's mentality changed. I feel sorry for RJ, he tried, but I love this team, after the trade. Not just because of the players, but because somehow I can't explain, seems better. I just can't believe RJ took away this much.


It's not some magic. RJ was like a second Bonner, he was there to shoot and shoot only. Except he wasn't as good at getting open as Bonner. And believe it or not he doesn't move the ball as well as Bonner because he doesn't put himself in that position. RJ's office is in the corner, which isn't a prime place for a player to drive from, or to pass from. So when he wasn't hitting the shot, he was useless, and the offense died. When Sjax (or Bonner, Green, Leonard for that matter) can't get an open shot off they're much better than RJ at least at breaking down the defense off the dribble or are usually in a better position to pass out and keep the play going. Again, RJ's complete lack of versatility was the key.

[Seventyniner]

its like timvp said once he was gone it was like a black cloud was lifted from the spurs

Does anyone have a link to this? Not that I don't believe you, but I must have missed this one and would like to read the context.

[DPG21920]

No. /thread

[DPG21920]

Does anyone have a link to this? Not that I don't believe you, but I must have missed this one and would like to read the context.

It was me who said it. I compared RJ to a sickness.

[roycrikside]

It's just incredible how team's mentality changed. I feel sorry for RJ, he tried, but I love this team, after the trade. Not just because of the players, but because somehow I can't explain, seems better. I just can't believe RJ took away this much.

No, bullshit. Don't feel sorry for him. He deserves ZERO sympathy. He did not try. He almost never tried.

"Trying" would be sticking his nose in there and getting to the basket and drawing some FTs on offense and trying to get some rebounds on defense.

"Trying" would be running the floor like his life depended on it and trying to get some fast break points like Leonard and Green do.

"Trying" would be working your ass off on defense to cover for the big three on offense, a la Bowen.

"Trying" would be working with the coaches day and night to understand the playbook so you don't constantly make mental mistakes on the floor over and over and over again.

"Trying" would be working on your weaknesses and improving them. RJ stopped going to the basket entirely after his first year because he discovered that since he lost a bit of his athleticism, he wasn't quite as fast and people were getting to the spot quicker against him and drawing offensive fouls. Instead of developing a floater like Tony or a eurostep like Manu, he just stopped going to the rim altogether. He quit.

RJ's got it into his head that he had to be Steve Kerr to be successful for the Spurs, a catch-and-shoot guy that had wouldn't have to contribute anything else for the team to be successful. He didn't understand that he was getting paid 10M a year to do a lot more that shoot and play Warriors-like defense.

So fuck him. He was mentally weak and he basically stole money here. If the Spurs win it all, I wouldn't even send him a ring. Athletes like him are why the NBA has the reputation it does with the casual fan.

[DPG21920]

Does anyone have a link to this? Not that I don't believe you, but I must have missed this one and would like to read the context.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5518895&highlight=Sickness#post5518895


Look, we saw what a difference RJ made when he decided to actually do something besides spot up. When he drove and looked to create or get to the rim he actually made the team look much better. With Jax, you get that on a regular basis and he's a better passer/ball handler to boot. So no longer will that be the exception, but the norm.

I don't care how many Jax misses (to a certain degree obviously), I care that he will not be punked and I care about having another guy the people in the locker room trust. It could breath new life into the team as I've compared RJ to a sickness that doesn't seem to be serious so you never go to the doctor; you just never feel fully healthy.

I'm not expecting any major step forward, but this will force a better defensive unit from Pop and I will enjoy watching them much, much more. I'm going on record saying Jax will make the team better basketball wise and it will be noticeable.

Having said that, if the Spurs don't land a big man, the point is somewhat moot, although the Spurs are better now than before so hard to complain if people liked their chances as all before with RJ.


Look, the Spurs still have a glaring issue upfront but this allows the Spurs to have more grit in the starting line up (whether that's Kawhi or Jax). Jax has moxie and the Spurs needed that. RJ was a sickness that dragged everyone down. Jax will breathe new life.

Spurs amnestying RJ next year & adding a guy would have cost a lot; now they get a guy who's about as good as they could have hoped for with regards to title team impact.

Spurs need a big, but this trade saved them a lot of money and gave them championship grit.


I think what it is, from both the team and the fans is there was no new life pumped into the team. They know they can't contend. They know they don't trust RJ. Yet, nothing was done and it's the same guys out there. It's like a sickness and I thought they would go a long way to cure that by cutting RJ (he's not the only issue), but they didn't. I'm afraid you will see quite a few games with low energy.

[Spursfanfromafar]

-Professionalism
-Athleticism
-3pt Shooting

The only thing professional about RJ was that he kept himself fit to play most games. Other than that, a "better" professional would have outgrown the one-dimensional-ness that RJ provided.

Athleticism was only in bits and spurts. Over the last year, RJ hardly used his athleticism to slash to the basket.

3pt shooting percentage looks great, but once you figure out that all RJ did on offense was to spot up in the corner and hit those 23 footers at a clip of 42% and didn't do that enough in the clutch, you get a better perspective.

RJ was a majorly flawed SF that the Spurs had hired to be a 3/4th banana on the team. Instead he turned out to be the banana skin that the Spurs were repeatedly slipping on.

Just by his subtraction, the Spurs have improved.

[siraulo23]

its ok bash rj all you want

[GSH]

It was me who said it. I compared RJ to a sickness.

And you nailed it, DPG. It's more than just a talent upgrade. The whole personality of the team is different. And, yeah, it's like watching someone who had a long sickness, finally up and getting their energy.

I liked Gani Lawal at the beginning of the season. But that was like a hope and a prayer. I look at the court now, and we've just got guys that kick ass, up and down. Even on nights when the team was hitting all their shots, they didn't attack the way they did tonight, or the last several games.

The team is still weak in the middle. But win or lose, they are going to flat-ass challenge anyone that gets on the court with them.

[TheSkeptic]

And you nailed it, DPG. It's more than just a talent upgrade. The whole personality of the team is different. And, yeah, it's like watching someone who had a long sickness, finally up and getting their energy.

I liked Gani Lawal at the beginning of the season. But that was like a hope and a prayer. I look at the court now, and we've just got guys that kick ass, up and down. Even on nights when the team was hitting all their shots, they didn't attack the way they did tonight, or the last several games.

The team is still weak in the middle. But win or lose, they are going to flat-ass challenge anyone that gets on the court with them.

That's pretty much all you can ask honestly.

[gambit1990]

No. /thread

this.

i've seen action jackson actually take initiative on offense more and play better d in his few games back so far than i've seen jeff do in his years in the silver and back.

[TJastal]

I don't know if I agree with this notion that RJ made the team "sick" or that he was some big dark ominous cloud hanging around. It was more Pop's insistence on giving him 30+ minutes a game which was the problem. He would have been better suited coming off the bench in a limited role like Jackson is doing now, getting anywhere from single digits up to a max of 25 minutes.

Pop's ego wasn't going to allow that however. That would be admitting his 50million dollar project Dick was malfunctioning.

[Man In Black]

HITA 2. Old School knows what I'm talkin' about.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Makes you wonder WHY, Pop played him soo many minutes consistently.