A San Antonio shooting for you guys to argue...

[CosmicCowboy]

Sounds like an application of "stand your ground" here in Texas with even crazier evidence/facts.

Murder charge dropped for drug dealer who shot thief
By Craig Kapitan
Published 09:53 p.m., Wednesday, April 4, 2012

Prosecutors have dropped a murder allegation against a San Antonio drug dealer awaiting trial for the fatal shooting of a customer who tried to rip him off — instead allowing him to plead guilty to a marijuana charge.

Jacob Andrew Trevino, 27, will now face up to two years in a state jail facility when he is sentenced next month before state District Judge Maria Teresa Herr.

Trevino was arrested in November 2010 for the murder of Ryan Christopher Jones, 24, who was shot multiple times with a stolen .38 Special revolver, court documents state.

Witnesses said Jones was supposed to purchase a pound of marijuana from Trevino for $4,500 in the garage of a Northwest Side residence when he instead pulled out a can of pepper spray, deployed it and grabbed the drugs. A friend of Jones' later acknowledged the theft plot to police and said he was there with a semi-automatic gun, which was never fired, as back-up.



Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Murder-charge-dropped-for-drug-dealer-who-shot-3460191.php#ixzz1rAnOfofq

[CosmicCowboy]

Looks like another mexican shooting a black guy and getting away with it.

[CosmicCowboy]

What? No outrage?

The guy commits capital murder (murder in the commission of another crime) and walks because it was a black guy he killed?

[CosmicCowboy]

*crickets*

[CosmicCowboy]

Figures...the judge was a mexican american...just taking care of their own...:lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

did the police tell him not to follow the guy?

[CosmicCowboy]

did the police tell him not to follow the guy?

Nope. They didn't specifically tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin either.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wheres your outrage over the killing of this poor young black man?

[Blake]

I'm guessing the prosecutor looked at the case and decided it would have been a tough one to win so they dropped it.

Why exactly are you outraged?

[CosmicCowboy]

That poor black kid clearly feared for his life since the Mexican had a gun and decided to strike first with the pepper spray in self defense.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm guessing the prosecutor looked at the case and decided it would have been a tough one to win so they cut a deal.

Why exactly are you outraged?

I forgot to use blue print for the stupid ones.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Wheres your outrage over the killing of this poor young black man?

was trayvon there to rip zimmerman off? was he armed? seems to me like two separate circumstances.. but you guys on the right never can tell the difference.. did trayvon go to his garage?

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh, I see. In your world it's not murder if they shoot a bad guy?

[CosmicCowboy]

The relative innocence of the victim is the deciding factor? :lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Oh, I see. In your world it's not murder if they shoot a bad guy?

No one has argued that people don't have the right to defend themselves.. they just can't go out and instigate a situation that causes them to have to defend themself...

If Zimmeramn was sitting in his car and this kid came out of nowehere to mug him no one would have blinked an eye if trayvon was killed..

why is this so hard for you to grasp?

[Blake]

I forgot to use blue print for the stupid ones.

I predict this stupid thread ends with your butt hurting badly.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It would be like me going to your house and starting to fight with you.. you start getting the best of me and I shoot you in self defense...is that self defense?

[Blake]

It would be like me going to your house and starting to fight with you.. you start getting the best of me and I shoot you in self defense...is that self defense?

But that's irrelevant because he's a Mexican drug dealer!!!

I want to see outrage!!!!,

[CosmicCowboy]

No one has argued that people don't have the right to defend themselves.. they just can't go out and instigate a situation that causes them to have to defend themself...

If Zimmeramn was sitting in his car and this kid came out of nowehere to mug him no one would have blinked an eye if trayvon was killed..

why is this so hard for you to grasp?

:lol

It appears that the special prosecutor in the Martin case doesn't agree with you.

[George Gervin's Afro]

:lol

It appears that the special prosecutor in the Martin case doesn't agree with you.

it appears your thread has failed..:lmao

[GSH]

They aren't interested, CC, because the story won't further any political narrative. End of story.



it appears your thread has failed..:lmao


Actually, it was a spectacular success. For exactly the reason I stated above.

[George Gervin's Afro]

They aren't interested, CC, because the story won't further any political narrative. End of story.

or maybe the stories aren't comparable

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course they are comparable. Mexican shoots black kid and gets away with it.

[GSH]

Of course they are comparable. Mexican shoots black kid and gets away with it.

CNN finally had to admit that Zimmerman said nothing racist. So that's pretty much all it comes down to.

Except that this story doesn't further a political narrative.

[clambake]

we must defend zimmerman at all cost.

[CosmicCowboy]

They have had the guy in jail on murder charges for a year and a half.

The Mexican obviously made a deal and rolled on his supplier in exchange for getting the murder charge dropped.

It just took them this long to finish the case and get their arrest and seal the deal.

They traded justice for that innocent black kid for another drug dealer arrest.

[cantthinkofanything]

CosmicCrackpot, you should just use blue text for all of your posts.

[CosmicCowboy]

So I take it all the idiots defending Saint Trayvon are OK with this black kid getting shot and the Mexican getting off on the murder?

[clambake]

so i guess all the idiots think these cases are similar.

[GSH]

So I take it all the idiots defending Saint Trayvon are OK with this black kid getting shot and the Mexican getting off on the murder?

They don't give a shit, CC. Nobody's going to march over this dead black kid. Jesse Fucking Jackson isn't coming to SA to hold a press conference. Because it's not about the dead black kid. It's about politics, and using whatever tool (including the tools here) to increase your power.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

I use the same argument you guys have been using (the dead guy didn't have a gun and the shooter did, so the shooter can't possibly claim self defense) and you automatically dismiss it....:lol

You guys crack me up.

[CosmicCowboy]

In both cases the "victim" apparently inflicted harm on the shooter first and then got fatally shot.

[GSH]

so i guess all the idiots think these cases are similar.

No. They obviously aren't similar. Already said so. There are too many facts in this case, so you can't make shit up. And it was always obvious that you don't give a shit about a murderer going free - what you care about is the political statement. Hey - a guy murders in the commission of a felony, and walks... why should there be any moral outrage about that?

It's not about the two cases being identical - or either similar. It's about what you moonbats really care about. And what the Trayvon case was ALWAYS really about.

[Blake]

Of course they are comparable. Mexican shoots black kid and gets away with it.

So you believe race was a factor in the prosecutor's (lol you said judge) decision to drop the case.

You're very stupid.

[clambake]

No. They obviously aren't similar. Already said so. There are too many facts in this case, so you can't make shit up. And it was always obvious that you don't give a shit about a murderer going free - what you care about is the political statement. Hey - a guy murders in the commission of a felony, and walks... why should there be any moral outrage about that?

It's not about the two cases being identical - or either similar. It's about what you moonbats really care about. And what the Trayvon case was ALWAYS really about.

go through the other thread and pinpoint my position, slick.

[CosmicCowboy]

So you believe race was a factor in the prosecutor's (lol you said judge) decision to drop the case.

You're very stupid.

So you think race was a factor in the Martin shooting?

And the JUDGE has to approve the plea bargain.

You're very stupid.

[Blake]

So you think race was a factor in the Martin shooting?

And the JUDGE has to approve the plea bargain.

You're very stupid.

I don't care about the Martin case in this thread.

Please lay out the details of the plea bargain that was made in this case.

[GSH]

go through the other thread and pinpoint my position, slick.

Climb up my ass and see if I'm wearing a hat, ace.

[clambake]

just say you can't do it. we already know.

[GSH]

I don't care about the Martin case in this thread.

Please point out the plea bargain that was made in this case.


There was no plea bargain in the Trayvon case, you utterly ignorant ass. Just make shit up when it suits you? Of course you do.

[GSH]

just say you can't do it. we already know.

I don't even know what other thread you're talking about, dumbass. I don't live here like you do. I'm talking about the thread I'm currently commenting on, like you should be.

Maybe when you find out about that hat, you can come back into the light.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't care about the Martin case in this thread.

Please lay out the details of the plea bargain that was made in this case.

You are just too fucking stupid.

The shooter has been in jail on murder charges (obviously referred to the court by the grand jury) for a year and a half. The judge HAS to agree with letting the shooter cop to a lesser charge.

[CosmicCowboy]

In fairness, I'm making fun of all their arguments in the other thread with this one.

[clambake]

In fairness, I'm making fun of all their arguments in the other thread with this one.

:lol i know you are. i'm just humored by the adolescent and his crusade.

[Blake]

There was no plea bargain in the Trayvon case, you utterly ignorant ass. Just make shit up when it suits you? Of course you do.

I made it crystal clear which case I was talking about. I also made a request, not a claim.

I can understand how it might be hard to read when your butt is in such pain.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol i know you are. i'm just humored by the adolescent and his crusade.

I already told you guys I think Zimmerman was an asshole and this was a tragic case of two people misunderstanding the situation that ended very badly. I'm sorry the kid is dead.

Despite all the new evidence and almost 2000 posts later y'all are still trying to hang Zimmerman in the other thread.

The special prosecutor in Florida with all the facts clearly doesn't feel the same way you guys do.

Don't talk to me about adolescent crusades.

[Blake]

You are just too fucking stupid.

The shooter has been in jail on murder charges (obviously referred to the court by the grand jury) for a year and a half. The judge HAS to agree with letting the shooter cop to a lesser charge.

Just do yourself a huge favor and admit right now you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Roflmao fucking idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

Just do yourself a huge favor and admit right now you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Roflmao fucking idiot.


:lmao

butthurt are we?..

[clambake]

I already told you guys I think Zimmerman was an asshole and this was a tragic case of two people misunderstanding the situation that ended very badly. I'm sorry the kid is dead.

Despite all the new evidence and almost 2000 posts later y'all are still trying to hang Zimmerman in the other thread.

The special prosecutor in Florida with all the facts clearly doesn't feel the same way you guys do.

Don't talk to me about adolescent crusades.

you failed to notice that i didn't adopt a position about that case.

[CosmicCowboy]

you failed to notice that i didn't adopt a position about that case.

I wasn't specifically addressing you even though I quoted your post...Blake, GGafro, etc. are the attack dogs with the entrenched positions despite a profusion of facts that counter their positions.

[Blake]

In fairness, I'm making fun of all their arguments in the other thread with this one.

Rofl fairness

[CosmicCowboy]

They can't even answer the simple question...

If the case against Zimmerman is so obvious (and despite all the publicity) why hasn't the special prosecutor referred him for prosecution?

[CosmicCowboy]

Rofl fairness

Rofl butthurt

[LnGrrrR]

What? No outrage?

The guy commits capital murder (murder in the commission of another crime) and walks because it was a black guy he killed?

lol cc

You waited all of 20 mins to post this after the OP

[LnGrrrR]

Wheres your outrage over the killing of this poor young black man?

This may surprise you, but there's a small difference between a guy who was trying to steal drugs that got shot because he tries using spray paint, and another black kid who was innocent and got followed, then attacked his follower.

You're getting as bad as Yoni.

[CosmicCowboy]

This may surprise you, but there's a small difference between a guy who was trying to steal drugs that got shot because he tries using spray paint, and another black kid who was innocent and got followed, then attacked his follower.

You're getting as bad as Yoni.

The act of following is not the initiation of violence. The initiator of the violence appears to have been legally shot under Florida law. Why is this so hard to understand?

It was a terrible misunderstanding by both parties.

[LnGrrrR]

They can't even answer the simple question...

If the case against Zimmerman is so obvious (and despite all the publicity) why hasn't the special prosecutor referred him for prosecution?

Probably because most people are bitching about the idea that the "Stand your Ground" law might protect someone who instigated the problem in the first place.

I don't think people care if one dirtbag shoots another, because the one instigating it was trying to steal drugs.

That's not that hard to grasp, is it?

[CosmicCowboy]

Probably because most people are bitching about the idea that the "Stand your Ground" law might protect someone who instigated the problem in the first place.

I don't think people care if one dirtbag shoots another, because the one instigating it was trying to steal drugs.

That's not that hard to grasp, is it?

Actually, the majority of people in the other thread still are maintaining that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

[LnGrrrR]

The act of following is not the initiation of violence. The initiator of the violence appears to have been legally shot under Florida law. Why is this so hard to understand?

It was a terrible misunderstanding by both parties.

It's not, but it's much easier to sympathize with someone being afraid and attacking the person following them, then it is to sympathize with a guy trying to steal drugs.

And I believe it was a terrible misunderstanding too, but one that wouldn't have happened of Zimmerman wasnt such a fucking Dudley-Do-Right idiot.

[cheguevara]

:lmao comparing a pound of chronic to a bag of skittles

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think people care if one dirtbag shoots another, because the one instigating it was trying to steal drugs.



So I'll ask you the same question...the relative innocence of the victim should determine whether it's murder or not?

The law clearly states that shooting someone while in the act of committing another crime (in this case selling drugs) is a capital murder.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not, but it's much easier to sympathize with someone being afraid and attacking the person following them, then it is to sympathize with a guy trying to steal drugs.

And I believe it was a terrible misunderstanding too, but one that wouldn't have happened of Zimmerman wasnt such a fucking Dudley-Do-Right idiot.

I totally agree that Zimmerman appears to be a total asshole, I just maintained from page one that the evidence did not appear to justify a murder charge under Florida law.

The special prosecutor apparently agrees with me.

[Blake]

I wasn't specifically addressing you even though I quoted your post...Blake, GGafro, etc. are the attack dogs with the entrenched positions despite a profusion of facts that counter their positions.

Lmao at this horse shit. Please tell me what my position is.

Tbh, I've been simply making fun of you and your notion that a Mexican judge took it easy on a fellow Mexican.

You are a huge fucking idiot.

[JoeChalupa]

Nope. They didn't specifically tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin either.

They told him he didn't need to do that and he said Okay. In Texas I guess as long as the victim/assailant/robber can't testify it is a closed case.

[GSH]

So I'll ask you the same question...the relative innocence of the victim should determine whether it's murder or not?

The law clearly states that shooting someone while in the act of committing another crime (in this case selling drugs) is a capital murder.

They. Don't. Give. A. Shit.

They loved the story. They loved the chance to experience some moral outrage, even if the story was made up. Too many of them are like people who stare at a traffic accident as they drive by, hoping to see some blood. When it turns out that no limbs were really severed, they've lost all interest.

I said it before. It was never about a dead black kid. That story doesn't sell.

[LnGrrrR]

Actually, the majority of people in the other thread still are maintaining that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

He did, in a sense. He initiated the chain of actions that led to Martin's death, even if the situation spiraled out of his control. Let's put it this way, if you had to assign blame to them, is there any way you could assign more than 50 percent to Martin?

Whereas in this case, the thief initiated the situation.

[LnGrrrR]

They. Don't. Give. A. Shit.

They loved the story. They loved the chance to experience some moral outrage, even if the story was made up. Too many of them are like people who stare at a traffic accident as they drive by, hoping to see some blood. When it turns out that no limbs were really severed, they've lost all interest.

I said it before. It was never about a dead black kid. That story doesn't sell.

Werent you just giving RG a shit about being psychic in another thread?

[Blake]

So I'll ask you the same question...the relative innocence of the victim should determine whether it's murder or not?

The law clearly states that shooting someone while in the act of committing another crime (in this case selling drugs) is a capital murder.

The "innocent" victim in this case sprayed mace at the alleged.

You are fucking stupid.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lmao at this horse shit. Please tell me what my position is.

Tbh, I've been simply making fun of you and your notion that a Mexican judge took it easy on a fellow Mexican.

You are a huge fucking idiot.

I was making fun of the claim in the other thread that the responding officer took it easy on Zimmerman because he was hispanic too.

you really ARE fucking stupid if you didn't catch the sarcasm.

[ChumpDumper]

CC made an entire thread out of straw.

Kudos. :toast

[LnGrrrR]

So I'll ask you the same question...the relative innocence of the victim should determine whether it's murder or not?

The law clearly states that shooting someone while in the act of committing another crime (in this case selling drugs) is a capital murder.

The relative innocence of the victim tends to have an influence in the outrage people feel over a death, wouldn't you agree?

If it didn't, you wouldn't have people like DarrinS posting images of Martin flipping off a camera to portray him as a thug, or people arguing that he looked suspicious.

[CosmicCowboy]

The "innocent" victim in this case sprayed mace at the alleged.

You are fucking stupid.

The "innocent" Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, broke his nose, and pounded his head against the ground.

You are fucking stupid.

[GSH]

CC made an entire thread out of straw.

Kudos. :toast

It's almost noon, and Chump has woken out of his drunken stupor. Time for the middle school comments to kick in.

[ChumpDumper]

It's almost noon, and Chump has woken out of his drunken stupor. Time for the middle school comments to kick in.Still feeling guilty about yours, i see.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC made an entire thread out of straw.

Kudos. :toast

It's been quite entertaining, too. Puro spurstalk poliforum

[Blake]

Rofl butthurt

Yes, I see your hurt starting to flare up.

Rofl you're a fucking idiot.

[LnGrrrR]

I totally agree that Zimmerman appears to be a total asshole, I just maintained from page one that the evidence did not appear to justify a murder charge under Florida law.

The special prosecutor apparently agrees with me.

That's kinda what we were bitching at. (Or at least, I was.) the law seems to be written in a stupid way, and allows a potential instigator to get away with instigating. Even if the evidence against Zimmerman were stronger, the Stand your Ground law might still have protected him.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm think I'm going to go ahead and buy a firearm.

[GSH]

Here. You want to talk about the relative innocence of a victim? The "youths" involved in this hate crime have been charged with disorderly conduct and one with robbery. All the cries for hate crime in the Trayvon case were about politics.

I'm sure you'll have some witty comebacks about how/why this doesn't count.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/kill-that-white-man-78-year-old-man-beaten-by-6-youths-in-alleged-racially-motivated-attack/

[Blake]

The "innocent" Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, broke his nose, and pounded his head against the ground.

You are fucking stupid.

You can't keep your cases properly separated.

It's because you are a proven fucking idiot.

Rofl.

[LnGrrrR]

The "innocent" Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, broke his nose, and pounded his head against the ground.

You are fucking stupid.

Really CC? You think the two situations are comparable? That Martin wasn't innocen because he attacked his follower?

What would YOU do if you were being followed? (I'd like to note here that, right or wrong, a lot of black people have a strong distrust of the police, which may have been a reason why Martin didn't just call 911. Being young and dumb doesn't help either.)

[CosmicCowboy]

You can't keep your cases properly separated.

It's because you are a proven fucking idiot.

Rofl.

God damn you are stupid.

You are making the claim that in this case the shooter was innocent because he didn't initiate the violence while at the same time maintaining that Zimmerman is guilty of murder even though he didn't initiate the violence.

[ChumpDumper]

Here. You want to talk about the relative innocence of a victim? The "youths" involved in this hate crime have been charged with disorderly conduct and one with robbery. All the cries for hate crime in the Trayvon case were about politics.

I'm sure you'll have some witty comebacks about how/why this doesn't count.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/kill-that-white-man-78-year-old-man-beaten-by-6-youths-in-alleged-racially-motivated-attack/What would you have them be charged with, GSH?

A hate crime?

[Blake]

I was making fun of the claim in the other thread that the responding officer took it easy on Zimmerman because he was hispanic too.

you really ARE fucking stupid if you didn't catch the sarcasm.

I know what you are trying to do and it's a failed bit.

No real surprise coming from a fucking idiot like you.

[CosmicCowboy]

Really CC? You think the two situations are comparable? That Martin wasn't innocen because he attacked his follower?

What would YOU do if you were being followed? (I'd like to note here that, right or wrong, a lot of black people have a strong distrust of the police, which may have been a reason why Martin didn't just call 911. Being young and dumb doesn't help either.)

I think they were both dumb, but the legal threshold for self defense is who initiated violence first.

[LnGrrrR]

God damn you are stupid.

You are making the claim that in this case the shooter was innocent because he didn't initiate the violence while at the same time maintaining that Zimmerman is guilty of murder even though he didn't initiate the violence.

I don't think either is innocent in the drug car you mentioned. One's a thief, and one's a drug dealer.

[LnGrrrR]

I think they were both dumb, but the legal threshold for self defense is who initiated violence first.

Who was talking about legalities?

CC, if you found someone was following you around, and you noted he was following you home, what would you do? Head straight to your house and let him know where you live? Stop somewhere and call the police? Wha would you do?

[CosmicCowboy]

I know what you are trying to do and it's a failed bit.

No real surprise coming from a fucking idiot like you.

Oh you do? You realized I was using sarcasm to compare to the claims in the Zimmerman case?

Funny here just one page back you have the hook firmly planted in your big mouth...


Lmao at this horse shit. Please tell me what my position is.

Tbh, I've been simply making fun of you and your notion that a Mexican judge took it easy on a fellow Mexican.

You are a huge fucking idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

Who was talking about legalities?

CC, if you found someone was following you around, and you noted he was following you home, what would you do? Head straight to your house and let him know where you live? Stop somewhere and call the police? Wha would you do?

If I was armed I would let him know I was armed and was prepared to defend myself.

If I was unarmed I would probably call 911.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think either is innocent in the drug car you mentioned. One's a thief, and one's a drug dealer.

According to the law, the shooter clearly committed capital murder because the shooting happened while in the commission of another felony crime (selling drugs). As I understand it self defense doesn't come into play in that situation.

[LnGrrrR]

If I was armed I would let him know I was armed and was prepared to defend myself.

If I was unarmed I would probably call 911.

And if he continued to follow you without initiating violence? Would you shoot him then?

I agree that Martin should have called 911, but I know a few black friends who won't call the police unless they absolutely have to. Just as Zimmerman didn't realiz how things would go, there's a chance this kid didn't think the cops would listen to him, wouldn't get there in time, couldn't do anything etc etc.

[LnGrrrR]

According to the law, the shooter clearly committed capital murder because the shooting happened while in the commission of another felony crime (selling drugs). As I understand it self defense doesn't come into play in that situation.

My point was that no one is goin to consider either of those "innocent" in the generic, non-legal sense of the word.

[CosmicCowboy]

And if he continued to follow you without initiating violence? Would you shoot him then?

I agree that Martin should have called 911, but I know a few black friends who won't call the police unless they absolutely have to. Just as Zimmerman didn't realiz how things would go, there's a chance this kid didn't think the cops would listen to him, wouldn't get there in time, couldn't do anything etc etc.

No, I wouldn't shoot or attack the guy just for walking behind me.

And I understand all the counter arguments about not trusting the police but Martin had the means (a cell phone) to call them. Martin apparently escalated the situation that caused his own death by initiating violence first.

[RandomGuy]

Sounds like an application of "stand your ground" here in Texas with even crazier evidence/facts.

Murder charge dropped for drug dealer who shot thief
By Craig Kapitan
Published 09:53 p.m., Wednesday, April 4, 2012

Prosecutors have dropped a murder allegation against a San Antonio drug dealer awaiting trial for the fatal shooting of a customer who tried to rip him off — instead allowing him to plead guilty to a marijuana charge.

Jacob Andrew Trevino, 27, will now face up to two years in a state jail facility when he is sentenced next month before state District Judge Maria Teresa Herr.

Trevino was arrested in November 2010 for the murder of Ryan Christopher Jones, 24, who was shot multiple times with a stolen .38 Special revolver, court documents state.

Witnesses said Jones was supposed to purchase a pound of marijuana from Trevino for $4,500 in the garage of a Northwest Side residence when he instead pulled out a can of pepper spray, deployed it and grabbed the drugs. A friend of Jones' later acknowledged the theft plot to police and said he was there with a semi-automatic gun, which was never fired, as back-up.



Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Murder-charge-dropped-for-drug-dealer-who-shot-3460191.php#ixzz1rAnOfofq

TLDR

Where they fighting over skittles or something?

[Blake]

God damn you are stupid.

You are making the claim that in this case the shooter was innocent because he didn't initiate the violence while at the same time maintaining that Zimmerman is guilty of murder even though he didn't initiate the violence.

I'm not the Mexican judge you fucking idiot.

I'm not the prosecutor you fucking idiot.

I'm not the alleged nor am I his attorney, friend or family member you fucking idiot.

Since I never made the claim in this thread, I therefore never made that claim at all you fucking idiot.

I'm still waiting for you to lay out the plea deal set by the Mexican judge.

[JoeChalupa]

According to the law, the shooter clearly committed capital murder because the shooting happened while in the commission of another felony crime (selling drugs). As I understand it self defense doesn't come into play in that situation.


I concur.

[Blake]

According to the law, the shooter clearly committed capital murder because the shooting happened while in the commission of another felony crime (selling drugs). As I understand it self defense doesn't come into play in that situation.

so the only reason he got off was because he was Mexican!

[LnGrrrR]

Double post

[LnGrrrR]

No, I wouldn't shoot or attack the guy just for walking behind me.

And I understand all the counter arguments about not trusting the police but Martin had the means (a cell phone) to call them. Martin apparently escalated the situation that caused his own death by initiating violence first.

Let's picture the same situation with two differences:

One, it was a friend or loved one being followed instead of Martin.

Two, Zimmerman doesn't have a gun.

So on Monday, your friend/loved one is telling you about this creepy guy following him/her, and how your friend/loved one turned on him and beat the shit out of him.

Is your first thought, "My god, you could have really hurt him, you were in the wrong" or is it, "Fuck yeah, good job, that will teach him not to snoop"?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not the Mexican judge you fucking idiot.

I'm not the prosecutor you fucking idiot.

I'm not the alleged nor am I his attorney, friend or family member you fucking idiot.

Since I never made the claim in this thread, I therefore never made that claim at all you fucking idiot.

I'm still waiting for you to lay out the plea deal set by the Mexican judge.

LOL, butthurt are we?

The article clearly stated:


Prosecutors have dropped a murder allegation against a San Antonio drug dealer awaiting trial for the fatal shooting of a customer who tried to rip him off — instead allowing him to plead guilty to a marijuana charge.

The plea deal was to drop the murder charges if he agreed to plead guilty to the drug charge.

What part of that didn't you understand?

Fucking idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

Let's picture the same situation with two differences:

One, it was a friend or loved one being followed instead of Martin.

Two, Zimmerman doesn't have a gun.

So on Monday, your friend/loved one is telling you about this creepy guy following him/her, and how your friend/loved one turned on him and beat the shit out of him.

Is your first thought, "My god, you could have really hurt him, you were in the wrong" or is it, "Fuck yeah, good job, that will teach him not to snoop"?

My response to my friend/loved one would be that they were damn lucky and don't ever do that again because you have to assume that everyone has a gun.

[ElNono]

Sounds like a drug deal gone bad... what does it have to do with the Martin case?

[Blake]

LOL, butthurt are we?

The article clearly stated:



The plea deal was to drop the murder charges if he agreed to plead guilty to the drug charge.

What part of that didn't you understand?

Fucking idiot.

I'm waiting for you to lay out where the judge had a hand in the deal.

Yes, butt hurt you are.

Cosmic dumb fuck.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm waiting for you to lay out where the judge had a hand in the deal.

Yes, butt hurt you are.

Cosmic dumb fuck.

The judge HAS to accept the plea deal.

What the fuck are you arguing?

[diego]

Here. You want to talk about the relative innocence of a victim? The "youths" involved in this hate crime have been charged with disorderly conduct and one with robbery. All the cries for hate crime in the Trayvon case were about politics.

I'm sure you'll have some witty comebacks about how/why this doesn't count.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/kill-that-white-man-78-year-old-man-beaten-by-6-youths-in-alleged-racially-motivated-attack/

Except for that comparison to be analogous to the martin case, the youths would not be arrested for anything, and the old man would be dead. :toast

[Blake]

Figures...the judge was a mexican american...just taking care of their own...:lol


The judge HAS to accept the plea deal.

What the fuck are you arguing?

My claim is that you don't know shit.

There's no evidence here of anything but nolle prosequi. That's why I've been asking you where you are getting that the judge was taking care of his own.

Or are you now going to try to claim the blue font again?

Either way, you are a huge fucking idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

My claim is that you don't know shit.

There's no evidence here of anything but nolle prosequi. That's why I've been asking you where you are getting that the judge was taking care of his own.

Or are you now going to try to claim the blue font again?

Either way, you are a huge fucking idiot.

It was sarcasm you fucking idiot. The claim was made in the other thread that Zimmerman wasn't arrested because the responding officer was hispanic and "taking care of his own".

I even explained it to you once already.

Are you REALLY that stupid?

[George Gervin's Afro]

This may surprise you, but there's a small difference between a guy who was trying to steal drugs that got shot because he tries using spray paint, and another black kid who was innocent and got followed, then attacked his follower.

You're getting as bad as Yoni.

he doesn't get it..

[CosmicCowboy]

he doesn't get it..

Of course I get it. This guy really did get away with murder and y'all aren't outraged because the media didn't tell you to be outraged.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Of course I get it. The guy still got away with murder.

apples vs oranges

but I know you know that ..you are simply being intellectually dishonest.. you have proven that time and time again in this thread..

[CosmicCowboy]

apples vs oranges

but I know you know that ..you are simply being intellectually dishonest.. you have proven that time and time again in this thread..

You obviously don't even know what intellectually dishonest means.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Looks like another mexican shooting a black guy and getting away with it.

Are you trying to make yourself look like a bigot? Its apparent you do not see it but dear lord.

Location, felony crimes being committed, relationship between the victim and perp etc. I get that you do not like black advocacy groups but for fucks sake just stop.

[CosmicCowboy]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.

[CosmicCowboy]

Are you trying to make yourself look like a bigot? Its apparent you do not see it but dear lord.

Location, felony crimes being committed, relationship between the victim and perp etc. I get that you do not like black advocacy groups but for fucks sake just stop.

LOL, I was just bored and fishing for a rise...that being said, was what I sad factually incorrect?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.

both should be prosecuted tbh; but what does a prosecutor's decision about a case in SA have to do with the shooting in FL? it's not like the ST resident dems dropped the SA case.

[CosmicCowboy]

both should be prosecuted tbh; but what does a prosecutor's decision about a case in SA have to do with the shooting in FL?

In both cases the dead guy initiated the violence that led to his death.

[Blake]

It was sarcasm you fucking idiot. The claim was made in the other thread that Zimmerman wasn't arrested because the responding officer was hispanic and "taking care of his own".

I even explained it to you once already.

Are you REALLY that stupid?

So theres no real correlation from that case to this one, but you still claim there should be the same outrage.

I think you've proven plenty of times on this board just how stupid and butthurt you can be. This thread is no exception.

[Oh, Gee!!]

In both cases the dead guy initiated the violence that led to his death.

according to each suspect, and they are both full of crap. so what?

[CosmicCowboy]

So theres no real correlation from that case to this one, but you still claim there should be the same outrage.

I think you've proven plenty of times on this board just how stupid and butthurt you can be. This thread is no exception.



I got idiots like you to attack the same arguments in this thread that you defended in the other thread.

It was actually quite entertaining.

[Blake]

In both cases the dead guy initiated the violence that led to his death.

So give your expert legal opinion why the murder charge was dropped.

[ElNono]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.

I agree.

I also think when an unarmed person winds up shot and dead under questionable circumstances, the shooter will be charged and a jury will get to the bottom of it. It's not unreasonable, I think.

[ElNono]

In both cases the dead guy initiated the violence that led to his death.

Was that established in the Martin's case?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.

I haven't once stated he should be convicted of murder..wrong again..shocking..

He should be found guilty in causing this kid's death though whether it be manslaughter or negilent homicide. There was no reason for him to approach the kid. zero. I don't blame the kid for trying to defend himself from some dude who was following him in the middle of the night.. the only reason zimmerman followed him is because he had a gun.

Do you think the kid would have died had Zimmerman not followed him? simple yes or no question

[CosmicCowboy]

So give your expert legal opinion why the murder charge was dropped.

The rational explanation would be that the shooter (who was dealing at wholesale drug levels) tipped them to a major supplier/distributor in exchange for reduced charges. It happens all the time and that's how LE makes the majority of their big drug busts. The fact that that guy that got murdered was a low life made it easier to sell to the judge.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The rational explanation would be that the shooter (who was dealing at wholesale drug levels) tipped them to a major supplier/distributor in exchange for reduced charges. It happens all the time and that's how LE makes the majority of their big drug busts. The fact that that guy that got murdered was a low life made it easier to sell to the judge.

so the cases have zero similarities..

[CosmicCowboy]

I haven't once stated he should be convicted of murder..wrong again..shocking..

He should be found guilty in causing this kid's death though whether it be manslaughter or negilent homicide. There was no reason for him to approach the kid. zero. I don't blame the kid for trying to defend himself from some dude who was following him in the middle of the night.. the only reason zimmerman followed him is because he had a gun.

Zimmerman apparently wasn't guilty of manslaughter or negligent homicide either since Martin apparently initiated the violence

Do you think the kid would have died had Zimmerman not followed him? simple yes or no question

no, but Martin wouldn't have died if he hadn't gotten kicked out of school, or hadn't gotten out of bed that morning, or hadn't decided to go to the store in the rain or a million other "what ifs"

As I have said multiple times, I think it was a tragic misunderstanding by both parties

[CosmicCowboy]

so the cases have zero similarities..

Sure they do. in this case a real murderer got off and you aren't bitching about it and in Florida there wasn't a murderer and you are bitching because the guy isn't going to jail.

[ElNono]

Who "initiates the violence" doesn't preclude charging somebody with involuntary manslaughter and the like. I'd like to see the legal precedent behind that claim...

[ElNono]

Sure they do. in this case a real murderer got off and you aren't bitching about it and in Florida there wasn't a murderer and you are bitching because the guy isn't going to jail.

But he didn't got off... he's going to stand trial... even if not for the murder charge...

[CosmicCowboy]

But he didn't got off... he's going to stand trial... even if not for the murder charge...

:lmao

pfft...two years for a capital murder?

[Oh, Gee!!]

if Trayvon and a friend were attempting to commit aggravated robbery on Zimmerman's property, you'd have a real good argument.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

LOL, I was just bored and fishing for a rise...that being said, was what I sad factually incorrect?

All of it?

[ElNono]

:lmao

pfft...two years for a capital murder?

Without looking at the plea is hard to know why that is.

That still doesn't preclude the fact that he was charged and he was waiting on a trial before he plead guilty to the other charge...

In a nutshell, very different cases. The shooter in the Martin case wasn't charged at all, IIRC.

[CosmicCowboy]

Who "initiates the violence" doesn't preclude charging somebody with involuntary manslaughter and the like. I'd like to see the legal precedent behind that claim...

Sure it does...


In Florida, manslaughter, is defined as: The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder .

bold/underline mine.

Florida law considers fearing for your life or serious injury lawful justification for shooting someone.

BTW, Florida makes no distinction between involuntary manslaughter and manslaughter

[ElNono]

Sure it does...

In Florida, manslaughter, is defined as: The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder .

bold/underline mine.

Florida law considers fearing for your life or serious injury lawful justification for shooting someone.

BTW, Florida makes no distinction between involuntary manslaughter and manslaughter

So who "initiated the violence" has nothing to do with it.

And I asked you the legal precedent backing up your claim, not your opinion. I already know what you think.

[Blake]

The rational explanation would be that the shooter (who was dealing at wholesale drug levels) tipped them to a major supplier/distributor in exchange for reduced charges. It happens all the time and that's how LE makes the majority of their big drug busts. The fact that that guy that got murdered was a low life made it easier to sell to the judge.

All the time?

Please link another case where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier.

[CosmicCowboy]

So who "initiated the violence" has nothing to do with it.

And I asked you the legal precedent backing up your claim, not your opinion. I already know what you think.

Damn you are trying hard to be obtuse.

The initiation of violence by Martin is the core of the lawful justification of the shooting.

[Oh, Gee!!]

All the time?

Please link another case where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier.

sammy the bull, tbh. goodfellas

[CosmicCowboy]

All the time?

Please link another case where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier.

Please go fuck yourself. Are you really that ignorant?

[ElNono]

Damn you are trying hard to be obtuse.

The initiation of violence by Martin is the core of the lawful justification of the shooting.

Second time I ask... has it been established that Martin initiated the violence?

[Blake]

All of it?

CosmicCowboy claims blue ink too often to tell.

[CosmicCowboy]

Second time I ask... has it been established that Martin initiated the violence?

The evidence that has been made public appears to indicate that Martin initiated the violence. Since Zimmerman hasn't been charged with anything despite the uproar it is logical to assume that law enforcement and the special prosecutor agree with this. If they charged him tomorrow I would have to assume they had acquired new evidence to the contrary.

[Blake]

Please go fuck yourself. Are you really that ignorant?

It was just a matter of time before you pulled down your Wranglers to really expose that hurting ass of yours.

It's your claim that it happens all the time.

I think it's a claim you made up because you're a fucking idiot.

[JoeChalupa]

The evidence that has been made public appears to indicate that Martin initiated the violence. Since Zimmerman hasn't been charged with anything despite the uproar it is logical to assume that law enforcement and the special prosecutor agree with this. If they charged him tomorrow I would have to assume they had acquired new evidence to the contrary.

This is where I feel that Zimmerman's following of Martin caused or played a major part in Martin initiating the violence by "standing his ground" against an unknown man who was following him late at night for no apparent reason.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The evidence that has been made public appears to indicate that Martin initiated the violence. Since Zimmerman hasn't been charged with anything despite the uproar it is logical to assume that law enforcement and the special prosecutor agree with this. If they charged him tomorrow I would have to assume they had acquired new evidence to the contrary.

actually, I think a grand jury is scheduled to hear the case on the 20th of this month. Charges could be brought after that date. I heard Zimmerman's new attorney basically saying that all the so-called "evidence" in the media is not to be relied on b/c police don't leak that stuff to the media or even to defense counsel before the suspect is actually charged. The grand jury will get the case and the evidence. They decide, not us or the media or the black panthers.

[JoeChalupa]

The evidence that has been made public appears to indicate that Martin initiated the violence. Since Zimmerman hasn't been charged with anything despite the uproar it is logical to assume that law enforcement and the special prosecutor agree with this. If they charged him tomorrow I would have to assume they had acquired new evidence to the contrary.

Had they done a thorough investigation at the scene they may well have found enough evidence to at least place him under custody.

[CosmicCowboy]

It was just a matter of time before you pulled down your Wranglers to really expose that hurting ass of yours.

It's your claim that it happens all the time.

I think it's a claim you made up because you're a fucking idiot.

Are you fucking serious? Do you REALLY not know how most law enforcement drug busts are made? They get the kid with the baggie to flip on the guy he bought from then set that guy with the pound up and get him to flip on his supplier, etc. right up the chain. It's all wheeling and dealing and plea bargains. you honestly didn't know this? Do you live under a fucking rock or something?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Are you fucking serious? Do you REALLY not know how most law enforcement drug busts are made? They get the kid with the baggie to flip on the guy he bought from then set that guy with the pound up and get him to flip on his supplier, etc. right up the chain. It's all wheeling and dealing and plea bargains. you honestly didn't know this? Do you live under a fucking rock or something?

you watch too much TV

[ElNono]

The evidence that has been made public appears to indicate that Martin initiated the violence.

What evidence is that?


Since Zimmerman hasn't been charged with anything despite the uproar it is logical to assume that law enforcement and the special prosecutor agree with this. If they charged him tomorrow I would have to assume they had acquired new evidence to the contrary.

The fact there's no charges presented doesn't automatically means it's been established who "initiated the violence".

As a matter of fact, cases like Joe Horn included charges that later on a grand jury determined not to have sufficient evidence behind them to warrant a trial.

So, presenting charges without all the evidence isn't uncommon. The question is why hasn't he been charged yet.

[ElNono]

actually, I think a grand jury is scheduled to hear the case on the 20th of this month. Charges could be brought after that date. I heard Zimmerman's new attorney basically saying that all the so-called "evidence" in the media is not to be relied on b/c police don't leak that stuff to the media or even to defense counsel before the suspect is actually charged. The grand jury will get the case and the evidence. They decide, not us or the media or the black panthers.

See, this I didn't know, and it's exactly what I think should happen. A grand jury should determine if the evidence warrants a charge and trial.

That's my beef with this whole thing. And I'm glad it's happening.

[CosmicCowboy]

What evidence is that?



The fact there's no charges presented doesn't automatically means it's been established who "initiated the violence".

As a matter of fact, cases like Joe Horn included charges that later on a grand jury determined not to have sufficient evidence behind them to warrant a trial.

So, presenting charges without all the evidence isn't uncommon. The question is why hasn't he been charged yet.

Because there is reasonable doubt that Martin did in fact initiate the violence. It doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. They already have all the facts/evidence they are probably going to get. Anyone with any information about the case has probably already come forward. The prosecutor obviously doesn't feel like they have a case to charge Zimmerman.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/04/when-will-we-find-out-if-zimmerman-going-be-charged

So when will we find out whether Zimmerman will face charges?

We may find out something next week, when a grand jury convenes to hear witnesses and to decide whether or not to indict him. If the panel rules in favor of indicting Zimmerman, it would be the basis for his arrest. However, the special prosecutor assigned to the investigation by Florida Governor Rick Scott has said she may or may not utilize the grand jury scheduled for April 10 to indict Zimmerman.

There are several scenarios in which Angela Corey could decide not to use the grand jury. Corey could decide to file charges on her own if she believes the evidence is strong enough. She could also decide to not utilize the grand jury if she doesn't believe there is enough evidence to indict him, or if she needs more time to develop her case.

In Session's legal experts say they believe Corey will use a grand jury in this case because of the controversy surrounding the shooting. Grand juries are often called the "conscience of the community," because they are made up of public citizens. If the grand jury decides to not indict Zimmerman after hearing evidence, a prosecutor can deflect criticism back to the "conscience of the community."

That being said, it may not be that difficult to get an indictment out of the grand jury. The burden of proof is much lower in these proceedings because the threshold is probable cause, not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Probable cause is difficult to define in certain terms, but generally, probable cause exists where the facts and circumstances would warrant a reasonable person to believe that an offense was, or is, being committed.

[ElNono]

Because there is reasonable doubt that Martin did in fact initiate the violence. It doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. They already have all the facts/evidence they are probably going to get. Anyone with any information about the case has probably already come forward. The prosecutor obviously doesn't feel like they have a case to charge Zimmerman.

Actually, what I expect is the prosecutor knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. The whole "who initiated the violence" is really irrelevant, because the statute (IIRC) doesn't address that at all (I asked for previous precent backing up such claim, and so far I've received none).

I also expect that if the prosecutor has such evidence, it would be in the best interest of the case to make it public. There's no national security secrets that need protection here.

But if this evidence is being reviewed by a grand jury, then I think that's fair and that's exactly what should be happening.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually, what I expect is the prosecutor knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

I also expect that if the prosecutor has such evidence, it would be in the best interest of the case to make it public. There's no national security secrets that need protection here.

But if this evidence is being reviewed by a grand jury, then I think that's fair and that's exactly what should be happening.

I'll agree with all that.

[Blake]

Are you fucking serious? Do you REALLY not know how most law enforcement drug busts are made? They get the kid with the baggie to flip on the guy he bought from then set that guy with the pound up and get him to flip on his supplier, etc. right up the chain. It's all wheeling and dealing and plea bargains. you honestly didn't know this? Do you live under a fucking rock or something?

You are saying the judge (still lol for saying the judge) is dropping a murder charge in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier.

Smh you are a huge fucking idiot

[Blake]

you watch too much TV

lol

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.

[jag]

I'm not sure how anyone could deny the politics of the Zimmerman case. It was never about a poor, innocent black "kid". No one really cares. Innocent black people get murdered all the time and there are no marches and there is no outrage.

A 10 year old black girl was shot in the head here in Chattanooga, TN a few weeks ago. The girl was standing in her front yard talking with relatives and was shot by a couple of black guys who were driving by intending to shoot her uncle. It was out in the ghetto and no one would even speak to the police, not even her parents. Everyone in the hood just brushed it off like nbd. It was reported in news but, hey, it was black on black crime so who really cares, right? You can't really create a media and social frenzy painting black people as victims if they were victimized by other blacks people. I don't recall any mass media tweets or celebrity tweets on the 10 year old black girl.

Some liberals are too smart to actually buy into all this nonsense, yet they continue to play they game because it's what they're supposed to do. Conservatives do the same thing with their "causes" and as a conservative I find that incredibly aggravating.

As far as the Zimmerman case is concerned it's amusing to sit back and watch all the false indignation. All these people who are outraged by this tragedy and care so deeply.

[Winehole23]

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.Whitey Bulger? a few of his crimes, including murder, were overlooked by his federal handlers in exchange for "information"...he is currently under indictment for 19 murders, according to the wiki. one of his handlers is also in prison.



A federal judge ruled on September 5, 2006, that the mishandling of Bulger and Flemmi caused the 1984 murder of informant John McIntyre. As a result, the McIntyre family was ordered to receive more than $3 million from the U.S. Federal Government. The judge stated the FBI failed to properly supervise their own agent John Connolly (convicted and jailed in 2002) and also failed to investigate numerous allegations that Bulger and Flemmi were involved in drug trafficking, murder, and other crimes over decades.[40]
In a 2011 interview, Stephen Flemmi recalled, "Me and Whitey gave [the Feds] shit, and they gave us gold."[28]from the wiki

[CosmicCowboy]

lol

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.

It happens all the time. One guy flips on his partner in crime...the partner gets the needle and he gets 20 years for a reduced charge.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm not sure how anyone could deny the politics of the Zimmerman case. It was never about a poor, innocent black "kid". No one really cares. Innocent black people get murdered all the time and there are no marches and there is no outrage.

A 10 year old black girl was shot in the head here in Chattanooga, TN a few weeks ago. The girl was standing in her front yard talking with relatives and was shot by a couple of black guys who were driving by intending to shoot her uncle. It was out in the ghetto and no one would even speak to the police, not even her parents. Everyone in the hood just brushed it off like nbd. It was reported in news but, hey, it was black on black crime so who really cares, right? You can't really create a media and social frenzy painting black people as victims if they were victimized by other blacks people. I don't recall any mass media tweets or celebrity tweets on the 10 year old black girl.

Some liberals are too smart to actually buy into all this nonsense, yet they continue to play they game because it's what they're supposed to do. Conservatives do the same thing with their "causes" and as a conservative I find that incredibly aggravating.

As far as the Zimmerman case is concerned it's amusing to sit back and watch all the false indignation. All these people who are outraged by this tragedy and care so deeply.

:lol It is about how the case was handled.

[jag]

:lol It is about how the case was handled.

You're an idiot if you think it was that simple.

[JoeChalupa]

You're an idiot if you think it was that simple.

You're an idiot if you believe your own BS.

[jag]

You're an idiot if you believe your own BS.

Tell me how outraged you are over how the case was/has been handled.

[JoeChalupa]

Tell me how outraged you are over how the case was/has been handled.

Read this and the Martin thread and you'll find my posts.

[jag]

Read this and the Martin thread and you'll find my posts.

I usually skip over your posts for a reason. Why couldn't you just answer the simple question?

Are you outraged over how the case was/has been handled?

[JoeChalupa]

I usually skip over your posts for a reason. Why couldn't you just answer the simple question?

Are you outraged over how the case was/has been handled?

Why can't you just simply read?

[JoeChalupa]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

[jag]

Why can't you just simply read?

Because your opinion doesn't actually matter. If you'd rather not answer then so be it.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

Why are you the only one that seems to know what the police did or did not do that night?

[jag]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

Read the police report. Read about the laws regarding such cases and when and why the police would perform certain tests. It seems you're more concerned with the controversy surrounding the case than you are with the poor, innocent black "kid". I find that interesting considering where the controversy came from.

[ChumpDumper]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.Who is defending this shooter's getting off?

[JoeChalupa]

Why are you the only one that seems to know what the police did or did not do that night?

Because if the police had done those things there would be a report on it. If they did do tests on the clothing then show the results. It is just my opinion, not that it matters so some, that a better investigation should have been conducted anytime there a killing involved.
And you apparently take the word of a witness as the absolute truth.

[Blake]

Whitey Bulger? a few of his crimes, including murder, were overlooked by his federal handlers in exchange for "information"...he is currently under indictment for 19 murders, according to the wiki.


from the wiki

None of those 19 murder charges have been dropped thanks to his informant status.

The judge even noted the FBI fucked that situation up and made the govt pay damages to one of the victims family. The judge also noted the FBI should have pursued allegations of murder much more vigorously than they did.

[jag]

Because if the police had done those things there would be a report on it. If they did do tests on the clothing then show the results. It is just my opinion, not that it matters so some, that a better investigation should have been conducted anytime there a killing involved.
And you apparently take the word of a witness as the absolute truth.

I love how people feel they are entitled to all the evidence in an ongoing investigation.

[CosmicCowboy]

I love how people feel they are entitled to all the evidence in an ongoing investigation.

That was my point that Joe apparently missed. Who really knows what the police did or didn't do that night?

[Blake]

It happens all the time. One guy flips on his partner in crime...the partner gets the needle and he gets 20 years for a reduced charge.

Reduced charge for the related crime......most of the time done because the prosecution realizes they don't have a great deal of evidence to work with.

Just one link where a murder charge was dropped by a prosecutor (lol judge) in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier will suffice, thanks.

[CosmicCowboy]

Reduced charge for the related crime......most of the time done because the prosecution realizes they don't have a great deal of evidence to work with.

Just one link where a murder charge was dropped by a prosecutor (lol judge) in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier will suffice, thanks.

Are you really that stupid? Prosecutors don't post their secret deals with snitches on the internet.

you fucking idiot...I just noticed the LOL judge. Are you not aware that a prosecutor can't offer a plea deal unless the judge approves of the deal?

[jag]

That was my point that Joe apparently missed. Who really knows what the police did or didn't do that night?

A lot of what they did do is in the police report. Many also seem to forget that he was taken to the police department and interviewed for several hours that same night.

[CosmicCowboy]

I knew at least a dozen guys in high school / college that got busted for dealing because someone else got popped for something and then rolled on them to get off. Some of them even played the same game and rolled on someone higher up the food chain. To think this doesn't happen at higher levels of crime is ridiculous.

[Blake]

Are you really that stupid? Prosecutors don't post their secret deals with snitches on the internet.

If it's so secret, then how do you know it happens all the time?

You don't because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
You're an idiot.

[MannyIsGod]

Sorry, but to think that this case is an analog to the other one is just fucking foolish.

[JoeChalupa]

Read the police report. Read about the laws regarding such cases and when and why the police would perform certain tests. It seems you're more concerned with the controversy surrounding the case than you are with the poor, innocent black "kid". I find that interesting considering where the controversy came from.

No, I am concerned about justice and gathering evidence at the scene and the fact that a young 17 year old kid is dead is the real tragedy. Getting shot dead when all he was doing was walking home. Allegedly.

[JoeChalupa]

Sorry, but to think that this case is an analog to the other one is just fucking foolish.

I concur.

[Blake]

Are you really that stupid? Prosecutors don't post their secret deals with snitches on the internet.

you fucking idiot...I just noticed the LOL judge. Are you not aware that a prosecutor can't offer a plea deal unless the judge approves of the deal?

I get that you feel the judge is really in on the dismissal of the case when it's really nothing more than a formality.

I already knew you didn't know shit how it works. There's no need for you to continue to prove your ignorance, but feel free to do so. :tu

[Oh, Gee!!]

If it's so secret, then how do you know it happens all the time?

You don't because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
You're an idiot.

isn't there a supreme court case that says secret deals violate due process, confrontation clause, etc? Isn't that why the ex-DA out of Williamson County is in trouble now? Because he failed to disclose his plea deal with a defendant turned state's witness? I think CC is in way over his pay grade on this one.

[jag]

No, I am concerned about justice and gathering evidence at the scene and the fact that a young 17 year old kid is dead is the real tragedy. Getting shot dead when all he was doing was walking home. Allegedly.

I'm glad you're so concerned. It's amusing.

[JoeChalupa]

A lot of what they did do is in the police report. Many also seem to forget that he was taken to the police department and interviewed for several hours that same night.

I know about all that. But forensic testing was done as far as I've read.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm glad you're so concerned. It's amusing.

I'm glad you find someone's death amusing.

[MannyIsGod]

I concur.

No, you dont concur. You don't have any clue what you're talking about and I sometimes hate being on the same side of an issue as you. You just parrot.

[jag]

I'm glad you find someone's death amusing.

I'm sure that's what you're taking from our discussion. I expect nothing more from someone so simple.

[JoeChalupa]

No, you dont concur. You don't have any clue what you're talking about and I sometimes hate being on the same side of an issue as you. You just parrot.

Oh STFU and get off your damn high horse. I know exactly what I am talking and stop acting like your shit don't stink.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm sure that's what you're taking from our discussion. I expect nothing more from someone so simple.

Hey, you are the one that finds things amusing.

[MannyIsGod]

My shit smells great, thanks.

[CosmicCowboy]

If it's so secret, then how do you know it happens all the time?

You don't because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
You're an idiot.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I can't believe you are so determined to argue against every fucking thing I say that you would actually try to take the position that the use of snitches and reducing sentences for usable information isn't common at all levels of law enforcement.

[JoeChalupa]

Oh, and if MIG thinks I like being on the same side as his he is wrong. Dead wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, and if MIG thinks I like being on the same side as his he is wrong. Dead wrong.True enough. I've seen that guy in a hoodie. He's lucky to be alive.

[CosmicCowboy]

isn't there a supreme court case that says secret deals violate due process, confrontation clause, etc? Isn't that why the ex-DA out of Williamson County is in trouble now? Because he failed to disclose his plea deal with a defendant turned state's witness? I think CC is in way over his pay grade on this one.

I know for a fact it's done all the time because I was personally involved in a case with the ATF/FBI about ten years ago.

[JoeChalupa]

True enough. I've seen that guy in a hoodie. He's lucky to be alive.

:lol

[JoeChalupa]

I've been busted before and damn right I was asked to spill the beans on others.

[LnGrrrR]

My response to my friend/loved one would be that they were damn lucky and don't ever do that again because you have to assume that everyone has a gun.

Fair enough.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I know for a fact it's done all the time because I was personally involved in a case with the ATF/FBI about ten years ago.

a case where a defendant got a plea deal for testifying, and the prosecutor didn't disclose the deal to the other attorney?

[CosmicCowboy]

I've been busted before and damn right I was asked to spill the beans on others.

No shit

It's just standard operating procedure.

I'm appalled these bozos are so ignorant about how the world works.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's also the second thing the defense lawyer will ask (after he asks for his down payment)..."Have you got anything to trade I can take to the ADA?"

[CosmicCowboy]

a case where a defendant got a plea deal for testifying, and the prosecutor didn't disclose the deal to the other attorney?

That's your straw man not mine.

[ElNono]

That's also the second thing the defense lawyer will ask (after he asks for his down payment)..."Have you got anything to trade I can take to the ADA?"

The American Dental Association?








:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I went through the first three pages of this thread so far, and it's turning into another Zimmerman thread. You guys are unbelievable.

[JoeChalupa]

That's also the second thing the defense lawyer will ask (after he asks for his down payment)..."Have you got anything to trade I can take to the ADA?"

Yup, I actually did attempt to set someone up but in the end I couldn't go through with it because I knew that if the word got out I'd be swimming with the fishes.

[CosmicCowboy]

a case where a defendant got a plea deal for testifying, and the prosecutor didn't disclose the deal to the other attorney?

To answer your question, yes they use confidential informants as well and they aren't always obligated to disclose the CI. For instance:

A drug dealer keeps his stash at X address
The informant tells them about it.
The have a car drive by and notice "suspicious activity"
They stake the place out and get video of drugs going in/out.
They take the video to a judge for a search warrant and bust the drug dealer.

Because they corroborated the information from the informant they don't have to disclose the informant because they don't directly use his information at trial.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yup, I actually did attempt to set someone up but in the end I couldn't go through with it because I knew that if the word got out I'd be swimming with the fishes.

Mouse was probably just dry right then...:p:

[Blake]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I can't believe you are so determined to argue against every fucking thing I say that you would actually try to take the position that the use of snitches and reducing sentences for usable information isn't common at all levels of law enforcement.

I'm not taking that strawy position, dumbfuck

I'm determined to keep exposing you as an ignorant fool because it's solid entertainment for me......much more fun than the serious conversation I attempted to have with you in the beginning of this thread.

It's not hard to google plea deals and find out what prosecutors have offered in the past.
I haven't found any myself regarding murder charges getting dropped in exchange for information on drug dealers. Please link one, thanks.

[LnGrrrR]

Well, I went through the first three pages of this thread so far, and it's turning into another Zimmerman thread. You guys are unbelievable.


Considering that the comparison was brought up by the OP in the second post 7 minutes after the thread, it's not really that surprising is it? Or did you not read that far?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not taking that strawy position, dumbfuck

I'm determined to keep exposing you as an ignorant fool because it's solid entertainment for me......much more fun than the serious conversation I attempted to have with you in the beginning of this thread.

It's not hard to google plea deals and find out what prosecutors have offered in the past.
I haven't found any myself regarding murder charges getting dropped in exchange for information on drug dealers. Please link one, thanks.

:lol

gfy

Seriously, then feel free come up with your own theory why they would let a capital murderer cop a plea to drug possession and a 2 year term.

[Blake]

No shit

It's just standard operating procedure.

I'm appalled these bozos are so ignorant about how the world works.

Nobody is saying informants are never given deals.

You're too stupid to realize that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

an LB for $4,500? Now that's criminal! They should report this guy to the BBB

If its kind its not. Its less than $300 an oz. More than what i would be willing to pay but if its not schwag, it will cost more.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nobody is saying informants are never given deals.

You're too stupid to realize that.

Well what are you saying then, dumbass?

[LnGrrrR]

Well what are you saying then, dumbass?

He is saying that they might allow drug dealers/thieves/etc to snitch, but not murderers.

[CosmicCowboy]

There were two eye witnesses and they have the gun and ballistics and a dead guy.

Anyone have a better theory why they would let a capital murderer cop to a possession charge with a 2 year sentence?

[CosmicCowboy]

And murderers snitch all the time...two guys rob a store, clerk gets shot, (both can be charged with capital murder) one guy flips on the other, one guy gets the needle, the flipper gets a reduced charge (not capital murder) and jail time.

[Blake]

:lol

gfy

Seriously, then feel free come up with your own theory why they would let a capital murderer cop a plea to drug possession and a 2 year term.

The prosecutor simply doesn't have a solid enough case to charge him with murder and wanted an easy conviction for the drugs. Regardless of the drug deal, I'm betting the dropped charge is due to castle doctrine, if I read it right that the assault took place in the alleged's garage.

It's hilarious you think you have enough information in a 5 paragraph article to convict him of capital murder though.

Seriously, your stupid theory is entertaining to read.

[Blake]

And murderers snitch all the time...two guys rob a store, clerk gets shot, (both can be charged with capital murder) one guy flips on the other, one guy gets the needle, the flipper gets a reduced charge (not capital murder) and jail time.

Because that's exactly what happened in this case.

Stupid.

[ElNono]

There were two eye witnesses and they have the gun and ballistics and a dead guy.

Anyone have a better theory why they would let a capital murderer cop to a possession charge with a 2 year sentence?

Was this in his property?

[Drachen]

I can't believe CC got yall to post enough in this thread to go 9 pages deep. It's an obvious troll job.

[Blake]

I can't believe CC got yall to post enough in this thread to go 9 pages deep. It's an obvious troll job.

Doubtful, imo.

I think he's just stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

True enough. I've seen that guy in a hoodie. He's lucky to be alive.

Wearing a hoodie today, TBH. Not too scared for my life though.

[Blake]

Well what are you saying then, dumbass?

I'm saying murder charges don't simply get dropped in exchange for info.

I'm also saying you are an ignorant dumbfuck.

lol judge

[JoeChalupa]

I'm saying murder charges don't simply get dropped in exchange for info.

I'm also saying you are an ignorant dumbfuck.

lol judge

Tell that to Sammy "The Bull" Gravano. While he still served some time he cut a damn good deal.

[DMC]

I've been busted before and damn right I was asked to spill the beans on others.
Yeah, but stealing fajitas from Taco Cabana isn't the same as shooting someone. Also, you probably did spill the beans on the way out.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao @ Blake

This guy is dumb as dirt...:lol

[Das Texan]

They have had the guy in jail on murder charges for a year and a half.

The Mexican obviously made a deal and rolled on his supplier in exchange for getting the murder charge dropped.

It just took them this long to finish the case and get their arrest and seal the deal.

They traded justice for that innocent black kid for another drug dealer arrest.

death of a black kid < taking down a druglord

at least thats what can be surmised from this chain of events.

[Blake]

:lmao @ Blake

This guy is dumb as dirt...:lol

:lmao :lmao smarter than you

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao :lmao smarter than you

Actually, I was a national merit semi-finalist and scored 99% on every standardized test I have ever taken.

Did you even graduate from high school?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can't believe CC got yall to post enough in this thread to go 9 pages deep. It's an obvious troll job.

WC tries to play the sophist and that is different than trolling.

[Agloco]

Wearing a hoodie today, TBH. Not too scared for my life though.

I'm hiking in the NM foothills today, armed with my new piece. You've been warned.

I have an aversion to skittles too fyi.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm hiking in the NM foothills today, armed with my new piece. You've been warned.

I have an aversion to skittles too fyi.

:lmao

[Blake]

Actually, I was a national merit semi-finalist and scored 99% on every standardized test I have ever taken.

Did you even graduate from high school?

Wow, then why are you so stupid in this thread?

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow, then why are you so stupid in this thread?

Just because I'm intentionally not playing the PC game doesn't make me stupid.

[Blake]

Just because I'm intentionally not playing the PC game doesn't make me stupid.

You think I'm playing a pc game?

Dumb fuck.

[CosmicCowboy]

You think I'm playing a pc game?

Dumb fuck.

No, I just think you're a stupid sheep. Baaaaaa

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The thing is that PC is phrasing things such as to not offend people that the term is describing. No one cares if you call them dykes or spades or bitches. Well, maybe people are but no one is decrying that in these threads.

What is being questioned is you using race, gender, and sexual preference as a basis to dismiss someones argument. While that too is not PC, it goes above and beyond simply being offensive. it demonstrates a measure of smallmindedness regardless of how well you did on standardized tests. i have to admit i got a chuckle out of that.

[Blake]

No, I just think you're a stupid sheep. Baaaaaa

That makes no sense.

You're a proven dumbfuck though, so no surprise.

[CosmicCowboy]

The thing is that PC is phrasing things such as to not offend people that the term is describing. No one cares if you call them dykes or spades or bitches. Well, maybe people are but no one is decrying that in these threads.

What is being questioned is you using race, gender, and sexual preference as a basis to dismiss someones argument. While that too is not PC, it goes above and beyond simply being offensive. it demonstrates a measure of smallmindedness regardless of how well you did on standardized tests. i have to admit i got a chuckle out of that.

I don't use race, gender, or sexual preference to dismiss arguments.

And I could give a shit what you and blake and the other mini-chumps think.

Y'all are like those rice burners with the big fart mufflers...a lot of noise without the horsepower to back it up.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't use race, gender, or sexual preference to dismiss arguments.

And I could give a shit what you and blake and the other mini-chumps think.

Y'all are like those rice burners with the big fart mufflers...a lot of noise without the horsepower to back it up.

irony alert:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

irony alert:lmao

ankle biter herd alert...

[ChumpDumper]

I don't use race, gender, or sexual preference to dismiss arguments.

And I could give a shit what you and blake and the other mini-chumps think.

Y'all are like those rice burners with the big fart mufflers...a lot of noise without the horsepower to back it up.:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Oh, Gee!!]

To answer your question, yes they use confidential informants as well and they aren't always obligated to disclose the CI. For instance:

A drug dealer keeps his stash at X address
The informant tells them about it.
The have a car drive by and notice "suspicious activity"
They stake the place out and get video of drugs going in/out.
They take the video to a judge for a search warrant and bust the drug dealer.

Because they corroborated the information from the informant they don't have to disclose the informant because they don't directly use his information at trial.

Ur talking about confidential informants: somebody that gives info to cops. That's different than what I'm referring to, I'm referring to a situation when a person gets a better plea or charges dropped for testifying in court as an eyewitness.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ur talking about confidential informants: somebody that gives info to cops. That's different than what I'm referring to, I'm referring to a situation when a person gets a better plea or charges dropped for testifying in court as an eyewitness.

In that case the defendant obviously knows who snitched on him. Duh.

However confidential pleas happen all the time. The example you cut and pasted was a perfect example. Just use "plea bargaining confidential informant" if it makes it easier to understand. They would never get anyone to snitch on the Mexican Mafia if they did it publicly because the snitch would know they would get to him eventually.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In that case the defendant obviously knows who snitched on him. Duh.

However confidential pleas happen all the time. The example you cut and pasted was a perfect example. Just use "plea bargaining confidential informant" if it makes it easier to understand. They would never get anyone to snitch on the Mexican Mafia if they did it publicly because the snitch would know they would get to him eventually.

Mexican mafia brings in the feds and they have the witness protection gig. An informant was involved that brought down the leaders of the then Juarez cartel back around the turn of the millennium. The subsequent power vacuum was what allowed the power struggle get to what it is/was. i know the judge that tried that case.

that being said you do not want to go to prison anywhere in the southwest with la eme on your ass.

[Agloco]

I don't use race, gender, or sexual preference to dismiss arguments.

And I could give a shit what you and blake and the other mini-chumps think.

Y'all are like those rice burners with the big fart mufflers...a lot of noise without the horsepower to back it up.

What, pray tell, is a "rice burner"? I think I get the fart muffler part. Interesting passage to say the least CC.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't use race, gender, or sexual preference to dismiss arguments.

And I could give a shit what you and blake and the other mini-chumps think.

Y'all are like those rice burners with the big fart mufflers...a lot of noise without the horsepower to back it up.

I am not asking for anyone to 'care what i think.' I do not need affirmation.

I do ask though why bring up her sexual orientation and gender as if its relevant? Its not dismiss her argument you claim but that rings hollow.

[Winehole23]

http://www.viperformance.ca/images/560/nice.jpg