Any of you ACTUALLY believe our friend Jesus

[RandomGuy]

It's natural to give up on religion/faith when the going gets tough in life. We may die of some unjustly of some disease, or our son or daughter might die before they reach old age. But that's not a reason to give up on faith. Or science for that matter. ustedes siganle chingando en la vida, no matter what! Keep on working, pay your child support, honor your mother and father, behave how you would like your sons and daughters/brothers and sisters to be treated, and wait for that day that you die.

I dunno. The bible and religions tend to be very clear about the power of prayer.

If you ask it, God/whatever will give it.

God fails to grant prayers all the time, despite these promises.

That seems to me to be a good indication that one should give up on something that is obviously useless.

[Ginobilly]

The Father is a sick bastard in the Old Testament.

Why would I want anything to do with him?

The people are the sick bastards in the whole bible. God is not the one that is doing the rapping of children and women, killing and enslaving innocent people, unjust laws all over the world. Jesus had to die for the sins of society. What the "son" imo means, is that societies "Fathers and Mothers" must teach our sons who to honor. And mothers and fathers must also honor their sons and daughters by teaching us to live the right way and be like Jesus. Philosophy was different before Jesus arrived. Rich men where at the top of society and children and women where at the bottom. Your dad could just kill you if you disobeyed him or was envious that you might take his place. And when you have societies like that, it opens the door to perverse societies. The story of the bible is Gods mission to correct all the wrongs between itself and humanity by teaching us how does he want us to live our lives by giving us free will to make our own decisions and choices. We are all held accountable for all the sins we commit! Guess you better pay your child support mouse!

[Blake]

The people are the sick bastards in the whole bible. God is not the one that is doing the rapping of children and women, killing and enslaving innocent people, unjust laws all over the world.

God murdered everyone but noah and crew during the flood.

He also allowed the Hebrews to own slaves.

He's sick.

[Ginobilly]

Pretty good reasons to give up on faith, imo.

Every single human being on Earth struggles with this. We have all cursed God at one point or another. Things happen in live that sometimes you have no control over and you will never understand why. But we have control over our thoughts and what we do in this physical life. Remember Jesus suffered too! If he suffered, we could all suffer with him!

[Ginobilly]

God murdered everyone but noah and crew during the flood.

He also allowed the Hebrews to own slaves.

He's sick.

He murdered them to correct them because they had some fucked Caligula/Sodom and Gomorrah type of societies, but he also gave them a fresh restart and forgave them because God loves humanity. If your a parent Blake, and your children are outta control. Beating up helpless kids, doing drugs, talking back and dishonoring both you and your wife. What would you do as a parent?


The bible does say that slaves should run back to their masters and not to run away. But also says that you should pay your "slave" or worker fairly and treat him right. The bible was written long ago! what you interpret as "slave", now means a worker. So if T-park pays his slaves or workers $7.25 an hour instead of the more fair $10 dollars an hour, his committing sin.

[mouse]

Those were fair and honest questions.

They are loaded questions, but its ok I will bite.



If you like, handle them one at a time.

I will and I will use just one post in doing so.



How do you know something to be true?

I don't, I can only go by what I see and what makes sense.

If someone tells me the Spurs lost by 80 points I would check out the highlights on tv first. But if they say they lost by 4 points I may just take their word for it.

The problem with your pal Darwin is he would say the spurs would have lost by only 2 points if Tim Duncan had used his tail to block that last shot.

Or that the Refs at one time were Zebras because they still have stripes.

To me that makes no sense. So I look at the damage the water from the Tsunami did in Japan in just one day and multiply it by lets say 40 days and I can only imagine how much that could effect the earth. And how the Grand canyon could have been carved in a few months of run off.

I look at the Mississippi river and the Niagara falls and know it doesn't makes sense for the earth to have any river older than "A Million" years it would be unthinkable to have Water falls older than 900 thousand years the erosion would be to much.

I Look at comets that Scientist claim are a result of the big bang and wonder why the oldest comet is 10,000 years old. and if comets have been around for millions of years how can they still be burning.

I look at the worlds oldest Coral reef that scientist say is 5,500 years old and wonder where is the million year old reef.

I look at the earths oldest tree at 20,000 years old and wonder where are the petrified 50,000 year old trees at.

what there where no trees 25 million years ago when Dinosaurs were here?

I look at the moon that scientist claim is drifting from the earth at 4 inches a year and do the math if the earth is 4 billion years old how close would the moon be.

I look at all the Carbon dating flaws scientist have every year when the same sample is sent to 3 different labs and come back with three different dates.

I wonder why the carbon dating labs not knowing where the dirt samples came from say that the dirt samples they tested show the dirt in the middle of the grand canyon is the same age as the dirt on the top of the grand canyon.

I go to the zoo and can't find a Chimp with no tail and wearing clothes.

I wonder if the Earth's rotation is slowing at the rate of one thousandth of a second per day. At this rate a billion years ago it would have been spinning so fast that centrifugal force would have caused it to fly apart



I say to myself if the rate of population growth has been steady for the time that we have records. The present six billion is the right number of people to have multiplied from the eight survivors of the universal flood about 4400 years ago. If man had been around for millions of years, the same growth rate would have produced 150,000 people per square inch of land surface.

I find myself puzzled that we know space dust accumulates on the surface of the moon at the rate of about one inch for every ten thousand years. Astronauts found an average of one-half inch, just about what you would expect in six thousand years.


I think about the accumulation of helium in the atmosphere implies a maximum age of no more than 10,000 years. Buildup of radiocarbon in the atmosphere would produce all of the world's radiocarbon in only several thousand years.


I even wonder if The planet Saturn is losing its rings. And scientist know they are slowly moving away. If the planet were millions of years old, the material in the rings would have dissipated long ago.

I say to myself how can it be that if man stopped evolving 100,000 years ago, he only learned how to form civilizations and write within the last 5-10,000 years? Also, the oldest civilizations appear around the world about the same time, and all were already very advanced, building marvelous structures (like the pyramids). There is no indication of a general evolution of civilization.

so as you can see I go by what is here now and not by some book written by a bearded man with an agenda from the 1800's




What process do yo use to figure things out for yourself?

I take all the data that is available and and weed out anyone that claims they know what happened millions and billions of years ago and can't even figure out how the pyramids got built and at the end you end up with basic simple solutions that make sense.

This isn't rocket science this is really basic common sense. (well to those of us who think clearly and really look for answers and aren't out to disprove creation)






If you want to buy a car from an ad in the paper that says "great car, it runs beautifully", do you simply wait for someone to drop it off, hand the guy a check, and let him go on his way?

It depends if the man shows up with a motorcycle and tells me to wait a few million years for it to evolve into a car.

[Blake]

Remember Jesus suffered too! If he suffered, we could all suffer with him!

God likes to watch people suffer.

Sick.

[Blake]

He murdered them to correct them because they had some fucked Caligula/Sodom and Gomorrah type of societies, but he also gave them a fresh restart and forgave them because God loves humanity.

He didn't give those individuals a fresh restart.

He murdered them and sent them to hell.


If your a parent Blake, and your children are outta control. Beating up helpless kids, doing drugs, talking back and dishonoring both you and your wife. What would you do as a parent?

I scold them as any normal human parent would do.

If I were to follow the example that old testament god laid out, I would simply kill the bad kids and just make some more.


The bible does say that slaves should run back to their masters and not to run away. But also says that you should pay your "slave" or worker fairly and treat him right. The bible was written long ago! what you interpret as "slave", now means a worker. So if T-park pays his slaves or workers $7.25 an hour instead of the more fair $10 dollars an hour, his committing sin.

No, the Bible clearly says God allowed the Hebrews to actually own other humans.

[RandomGuy]

The people are the sick bastards in the whole bible. God is not the one that is doing the rapping of children and women, killing and enslaving innocent people, unjust laws all over the world.


Jephthah Burns His Daughter

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."



"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)




[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)




"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."




They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.


Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.




"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)


Sure it was the people doing all of that.

But they did it because God told them to.

This wasn't people, if the bible is to be believed. It was the order of God.

I stopped after a few examples. There are far more.

The Bible is not really taught in churches or sunday schools. The uncomfortable stuff is glossed over for a good reason.

[RandomGuy]

God loves humanity. If your a parent Blake, and your children are outta control. Beating up helpless kids, doing drugs, talking back and dishonoring both you and your wife. What would you do as a parent?

I would not lock them in the basement and torture them for eternity.

That isn't love.

Hell is infinite torture for finite crimes. That seems to me to be a bit of an disproportionate response.

If my kid did that, and I locked him in the basement to torture him out of it, I would go to jail, and rightly so.

[mouse]

RandomGuy is raising the debate bar

[RandomGuy]

No, the Bible clearly says God allowed the Hebrews to actually own other humans.

Yup. As long as they weren't other Hebrews.


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

I take all the data that is available and and weed out anyone that claims they know what happened millions and billions of years ago and can't even figure out how the pyramids got built and at the end you end up with basic simple solutions that make sense.

Creationists are telling you equally what happened billions of years ago.

You also didn't really answer my question.

If the guy shows up with a car, do you just take his word for that the car is ok, and hand him a check?

The honest answer is no, you wouldn't.

What would you do to determine whether or not to buy the car?

Serious question.

[RandomGuy]

Or that the Refs at one time were Zebras because they still have stripes.

To me that makes no sense. So I look at the damage the water from the Tsunami did in Japan in just one day and multiply it by lets say 40 days and I can only imagine how much that could effect the earth. And how the Grand canyon could have been carved in a few months of run off.

I look at the Mississippi river and the Niagara falls and know it doesn't makes sense for the earth to have any river older than "A Million" years it would be unthinkable to have Water falls older than 900 thousand years the erosion would be to much.

I Look at comets that Scientist claim are a result of the big bang and wonder why the oldest comet is 10,000 years old. and if comets have been around for millions of years how can they still be burning.

I look at the worlds oldest Coral reef that scientist say is 5,500 years old and wonder where is the million year old reef.

I look at the earths oldest tree at 20,000 years old and wonder where are the petrified 50,000 year old trees at.

what there where no trees 25 million years ago when Dinosaurs were here?

I look at the moon that scientist claim is drifting from the earth at 4 inches a year and do the math if the earth is 4 billion years old how close would the moon be.

I look at all the Carbon dating flaws scientist have every year when the same sample is sent to 3 different labs and come back with three different dates.

I wonder why the carbon dating labs not knowing where the dirt samples came from say that the dirt samples they tested show the dirt in the middle of the grand canyon is the same age as the dirt on the top of the grand canyon.

I go to the zoo and can't find a Chimp with no tail and wearing clothes.

I wonder if the Earth's rotation is slowing at the rate of one thousandth of a second per day. At this rate a billion years ago it would have been spinning so fast that centrifugal force would have caused it to fly apart



I say to myself if the rate of population growth has been steady for the time that we have records. The present six billion is the right number of people to have multiplied from the eight survivors of the universal flood about 4400 years ago. If man had been around for millions of years, the same growth rate would have produced 150,000 people per square inch of land surface.

I find myself puzzled that we know space dust accumulates on the surface of the moon at the rate of about one inch for every ten thousand years. Astronauts found an average of one-half inch, just about what you would expect in six thousand years.


I think about the accumulation of helium in the atmosphere implies a maximum age of no more than 10,000 years. Buildup of radiocarbon in the atmosphere would produce all of the world's radiocarbon in only several thousand years.


I even wonder if The planet Saturn is losing its rings. And scientist know they are slowly moving away. If the planet were millions of years old, the material in the rings would have dissipated long ago.

All of this has already been debunked. It is either bad logic or factually incorrect.

Science produces answers and experiements and observations that can be reproduced, and verified.

You are "thinking about" things that are provably lies.

The people lying to you about them, have a huge motivation to lie to you about them. They want you to believe their story about God, and buy into their religion.

Not all the lies are intentional. Some of them are very bad distortions of reality, based on gross ignorance of what science says about things.

They are all still lies.

Why do you believe *these* lies, but think scientists are the ones lying?

[Blake]

RandomGuy is raising the debate bar

Stop lowering it

[mouse]

Creationists are telling you equally what happened billions of years ago.

When did I post I support creation?

[RandomGuy]

Scientist make sure only they're views are in the school books.





yes I have, sorry brah but your slow tonight and it may really take another page or two before your realize it.

I think your like a wounded camel in the desert and I am the Baking Sun burning your right through your paper thin theories like a new employee at Churches chicken burns the hash browns ......
to be honest I kinda feel guilty... like I should offer you a lifeline we all make mistakes.

Sorry, I'm not going to take the bait. You are boring me, and I don't care what you think about your own abilities.

You can't answer honest questions, so I guess we are really done.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yup. As long as they weren't other Hebrews.

This is the biggest problem i have with modern christianity. These parts of Exodus, Leviticus etc are no longer valid. OTOH, other parts still are valid.

Now I can get the part about how all the issues regarding animal sacrifices and absolution because of Jesus throwing a fit in the temple and what the supposed point of him being crucified. But the rest of it they just pick and choose from.

I find that even more reprehensible than the 'you have to take it figuratively' copout. Picking and choosing like that is an obvious logical inconsistency. To me, that makes it morally irrelevant other than a bunch of people trying to enforce what they've chosen anyway.

[mouse]

All of this has already been debunked.

Then why are you here?

[mouse]

Random why you keep saying "Creationist" are telling me what happen 4 billion years ago I don't support that Thoery why must we rehash this point on every page?

[HennyYoungman]

How does Moses make his tea?


Hebrews it!

[mouse]

How does Moses make his tea?


Hebrews it!

Anyone take your wife yet?

[Proxy]

When did I post I don't believe in Evoulution?

My replies has to do with "lies" posted as "facts"

People can believe in anything they wish just don't call it Science.

You see that is were the little brains in this topic Lose what little focus they might have had on this subject.

Evolution is a "Theory" the same as Nohas Ark they don't belong in the school books as facts.

That is absolutely wrong. The theory of evolution is supported by recorded factual data. Noah's arc is a biblical story.

"Outside of science, you might say something is 'just a theory', meaning it's supposition that may or may not be true. In science, a theory is an explanation that generally is accepted to be true." .... "A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it."

... so this being said, the Theory of Evolution is something that has been thoroughly tested on several levels of science. It has not been disproven by anything at all. We have even observed Evolution at work in very modern times through the adaption of insects to farming pesticides.

Noah's Arc does not pass the scientific tests required to qualify as something factual. This seems painfully obvious... there would be obvious evidence if the Earth had been flooded. It's silly to assume that every species that exists at this present moment survived on an arc from only a pair of it's kind.

So if science is something taught in school, Evolution is something that passes every scientific test so far... so it belongs there. Noah's Arc does not because it is a fictional story. The beautiful thing about science is that if Evolution is ever proven wrong, it will be taken out of the books.


All the texts books have to say is "sciencetist believe man may have Evolved from a snail and say others believe man was created and all is well let the students decide for themselves on how they may have got here on planet earth.


Until you find chimp that is half man half ape and until someone can prove the earth took 7 days to create it's all "theory" and religion.

All life on earth has evolved from a common ancestor. Scientists are constantly finding more links between man and ape.

... but this is just the "God of the Gaps" fallacy, as Neil Degrasse Tyson would say.... your basis and stance is an ever receding gap of ignorance. The bigger picture is understanding that all life branched at forks in the road.

And fyi, we know for a fact that the Earth was not created in 7 days. We understand how nebulas function and how stars are created and how they die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descent


Students have a hard enough time trying to learn to spell and add numbers why must Darwin or John 3:16 be in the classroom?


You're promoting ignorance.... and you're talking about things you know nothing about. Your basis on several of these topics are just what you've heard on conservative shows. Instead of repeating what some moron has said for publicity, you should do research yourself.

Your lack of knowledge of common ancestry, the scientific meaning of the word 'theory,' the process of star birth and death and it's orbiting heavenly bodies/satellites/planets/moons/asteroids.... and to be honest, your grammar, are all indications to me that you're in way over your head in a debate like this.

[mouse]

All of this has already been debunked. It is either bad logic or factually incorrect.



Link?


Science produces answers and experiements and observations that can be reproduced, and verified.

By who?



You are "thinking about" things that are provably lies.
Name the lies.



The people lying to you about them, have a huge motivation to lie to you about them. They want you to believe their story about God, and buy into their religion.

The same can be said about Darwin

No one is telling me anything I have eyes I can see the grand canyon where are the fossils?









not all the lies are intentional. Some of them are very bad distortions of reality, based on gross ignorance of what science says about things.


Glad you brought that up since Evoilution us on taught in a America


they are all still lies.


And your proof?


Why do you believe *these* lies, but think scientists are the ones lying?


why do you believe In Evoilution?


I believe in the facts and man evolving from an ape is theory please know the difference if we are to move foward.

[redzero]

Do you believe in gravity, mouse?

[mouse]

That is absolutely wrong. The theory of evolution is supported by recorded factual data.



So you have proof Evoulution is not a theory ?

Please share this discovery.

[RandomGuy]

Link?
By who?
Name the lies.
The same can be said about Darwin
No one is telling me anything I have eyes I can see the grand canyon where are the fossils?
Glad you brought that up since Evoilution us on taught in a America
And your proof?
why do you believe In Evoilution?
I believe in the facts and man evolving from an ape is theory please know the difference if we are to move foward.

I am not going to attempt to educate you on what science says. I have given you links to scientifically accurate descriptions and evidence, and you have ignored them, and continued to misstate the facts, and say things like "man evolving from ape" that are provably not what science has shown happened.

How can I have a reasonable discussion with you if it is provable that you don't understand the subject under discussion?

Theories are superior to facts, because they explain facts.

You don't have a theory that explains what we as a species have observed in our universe.

[RandomGuy]

That is absolutely wrong. The theory of evolution is supported by recorded factual data. Noah's arc is a biblical story.

"Outside of science, you might say something is 'just a theory', meaning it's supposition that may or may not be true. In science, a theory is an explanation that generally is accepted to be true." .... "A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it."

... so this being said, the Theory of Evolution is something that has been thoroughly tested on several levels of science. It has not been disproven by anything at all. We have even observed Evolution at work in very modern times through the adaption of insects to farming pesticides.

Noah's Arc does not pass the scientific tests required to qualify as something factual. This seems painfully obvious... there would be obvious evidence if the Earth had been flooded. It's silly to assume that every species that exists at this present moment survived on an arc from only a pair of it's kind.

So if science is something taught in school, Evolution is something that passes every scientific test so far... so it belongs there. Noah's Arc does not because it is a fictional story. The beautiful thing about science is that if Evolution is ever proven wrong, it will be taken out of the books.



All life on earth has evolved from a common ancestor. Scientists are constantly finding more links between man and ape.

... but this is just the "God of the Gaps" fallacy, as Neil Degrasse Tyson would say.... your basis and stance is an ever receding gap of ignorance. The bigger picture is understanding that all life branched at forks in the road.

And fyi, we know for a fact that the Earth was not created in 7 days. We understand how nebulas function and how stars are created and how they die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descent



You're promoting ignorance.... and you're talking about things you know nothing about. Your basis on several of these topics are just what you've heard on conservative shows. Instead of repeating what some moron has said for publicity, you should do research yourself.

Your lack of knowledge of common ancestry, the scientific meaning of the word 'theory,' the process of star birth and death and it's orbiting heavenly bodies/satellites/planets/moons/asteroids.... and to be honest, your grammar, are all indications to me that you're in way over your head in a debate like this.

Save yourself the bother of trying to tell mouse anything.

He doesn't want to hear it, and would'nt understand the science involved anyway.

Some of the stuff he posts here, are things he has been putting out for years, even after it has been shown to him to be debunked bullshit.

He does not care what the truth is, and is more interested in "showing up" the sceintists.

You may have noticed mouse loudly proclaiming his knowledge and expertise in not being "fooled by the scientists and their making shit up."

Consider:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dunning+kruger+effect+test

When Ignorance Begets Confidence: The Classic Dunning-Kruger Effect


The first of the original Dunning Kruger experiments featured a group of undergraduate students who were asked - just as they walked out of an exam - to rate their performance for the class just completed. In particular they were asked how well they had mastered the course material, and what they predicted their raw score to be for the test just taken.

After comparing the student's own impressions with their actual performance, a clear pattern emerged in Dunning and Kruger's data: Worse students grossly overestimated their own performance, while top students somewhat underestimated theirs. You get a clear sense of the extremety of the poor student's penchant to overestimate their own performance, when you consider these results: For the bottom quartile, while their actual performance may have

"put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated their mastery of the course material to fall in the 60th percentile and their test performance to fall in the 57th".

Bottom performers tended to overestimate their performance by roughly 30%; a general pattern that has been replicated many times over since.

Similarly,

"Participants taking tests in their ability to think logically, to write grammatically, and to spot funny jokes tend to overestimate their percentile ranking relative to their peers by some 40 to 50 points, thinking they are outperforming a majority of their peers when, in fact, they are the ones being outperformed


Dunning-Kruger as a Vicious Cycle

Dunning and Kruger often refer to a "double curse" when interpreting their findings: People fail to grasp their own incompetence, precisely because they are so incompetent. And since, overcoming their incompetence would first require the ability to distinguish competence form incompetence people get stuck in a vicious cycle.

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."

[I.e. they became creationists]

Mouse does not want to learn. He "knows" he is smarter than you or I, because he "knows" the material and underlying science.

You will not break through that.

It is not kind to mouse, and for that, I wish the truth were otherwise. Mouse is a good person, all things told, IMO.

It is what it is.

[Proxy]

So you have proof Evoulution is not a theory ?

Please share this discovery.

If you hadn't blatantly ignored to gist of my post, you would see that I answered that question. I'll go ahead and assume that you can't read based on the high number of spelling mistakes (Evoulution?... :lol... Evolution) and ignorant questions you produce.

I'll go ahead and take RandomGuy's advice and leave this discussion even though I just entered it. It makes me sad to know that you aren't the only human in this world that looks at things in a similar moronic fashion.

[RandomGuy]

If you hadn't blatantly ignored to gist of my post, you would see that I answered that question. I'll go ahead and assume that you can't read based on the high number of spelling mistakes (Evoulution?... :lol... Evolution) and ignorant questions you produce.

I'll go ahead and take RandomGuy's advice and leave this discussion even though I just entered it. It makes me sad to know that you aren't the only human in this world that looks at things in a similar moronic fashion.

I am going to take my own advice as well. Not worth my time anymore.

[mouse]

"Evolution" mixes two things together, one real, one imaginary. Variation (microevolution) is the real part. The types of bird beaks, the colors of moths, leg sizes, etc. are variation. Each type and length of beak a finch can have is already in the gene pool and adaptive mechanisms of finches.

What evolutionists do not want you to know is that there are strict limits to variation that are never crossed, something every breeder of animals or plants is aware of. Whenever variation is pushed to extremes by selective breeding (to get the most milk from cows, sugar from beets, bristles on fruit flies, or any other characteristic), the line becomes sterile and dies out. And as one characteristic increases, others diminish. But evolutionists want you to believe that changes continue, merging gradually into new kinds of creatures. This is where the imaginary part of the theory of evolution comes in. It says that new information is added to the gene pool by mutation and natural selection to create frogs from fish, reptiles from frogs, and mammals from reptiles, to name a few.

[mouse]

Evolutionists tell us we cannot see evolution taking place because it happens too slowly. A human generation takes about 20 years from birth to parenthood. They say it took tens of thousands of generations to form man from a common ancestor with the ape, from populations of only hundreds or thousands. We do not have these problems with bacteria. A new generation of bacteria grows in as short as 12 minutes or up to 24 hours or more, depending on the type of bacteria and the environment, but typically 20 minutes to a few hours. There are more bacteria in the world than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches of the world (and many grains of sand are covered with bacteria). They exist in just about any environment: hot, cold, dry, wet, high pressure, low pressure, small groups, large colonies, isolated, much food, little food, much oxygen, no oxygen, in toxic chemicals, etc. There is much variation in bacteria. There are many mutations (in fact, evolutionists say that smaller organisms have a faster mutation rate than larger ones16). But they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria. Fruit flies are much more complex than already complex single-cell bacteria. Scientists like to study them because a generation (from egg to adult) takes only 9 days. In the lab, fruit flies are studied under every conceivable condition. There is much variation in fruit flies. There are many mutations. But they never turn into anything new. They always remain fruit flies. Many years of study of countless generations of bacteria and fruit flies all over the world shows that evolution is not happening today.

[mouse]

Did you know that the teaching of Evolution is linked to racism? If you don't believe it, please know that the full title of Charles Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" is, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Species Evolution is also the cornerstone for Communism and Nazism and the justification of such evils as genocide.

[mouse]

The theory of the Big Bang was first conceived as a result of the work of American astronomer, Edwin Hubble. Hubble was the first to propose the idea of an expanding Universe. 3 If he is correct, and if we could travel back into the past, to the beginning of time, before it all expanded (or so the theory goes), then there must have been a time when everything was clumped together into one tiny ball of matter. And then we are told that something happened...

All of the sudden, this tiny clump of matter is supposed to have exploded into a Big Bang, and then Vwuallah! Seven to 20 billion years later (depending on whom you ask, and what year you asked them), here we are... without any sort of Intelligence to plan out, or act upon any of that matter. And as preposterous as this is to the laws of nature, and logic, and common sense itself, it is still the ONLY viewpoint that is allowed to be taught in public school classrooms today: for any viewpoint that even HINTS at the (STRONG) probability of a Creator being involved is said to be off limits (to so-called "science" and logic), and out of the realm of "science", and therefore should not be allowed to be examined and explored, much less even mentioned to our curious kids: who (we are supposed to believe) shouldn't be exposed to logic and common sense, but rather ONLY to progressive liberal fantasies that don't make sense.

Those who promote this theory also usually speculate that this small clump of matter, that contained all the matter in the universe, was no larger than a golf ball.

In other words, the Big Bang theory speculates that out of a great chaotic explosion came all of the order and complexity that we see around us today, with no intelligence required to plan out, design or build anything. In reality though, this theory is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator. For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise. Small wonder that those who promote the Big Bang are also, more often than not, believers in evolution.

[redzero]

:rollin Cool copypasta, bro.

http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/The_Big_Bang_and_the_Age_of_the_Earth.htm

[Blake]

Did you know that the teaching of Evolution is linked to racism? If you don't believe it, please know that the full title of Charles Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" is, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Species Evolution is also the cornerstone for Communism and Nazism and the justification of such evils as genocide.

I never imagined to see Godwin's law in this thread, even with someone as goofy as mouse posting in it

[mouse]

:rollin Cool copypasta, bro.



Would you prefer I type every word for word?

It never fails every debate I do on the age of the earth or Evolution ends in the same way.

Either they say "I refuse to go any further and try to educate you"

Translation: I really can't answer your questions without looking like a fool.


Or else they say "ROFL you copy and paste" "you an ______fill in the blank outdated insult"
Translation: I will do my best to turn this into a smack off.
Anything they can come up with so they don't have to address the issues at hand and answer the tough questions.


But no matter what they say at the end the truth is always you were right, I was wrong, lets move on.

[rascal]

God likes to watch people suffer.

Sick.

Suffering is only temporary. Are you too big of a pussy to endure suffering. You can learn great things from suffering and in the end when it is all over you are better for it.

[jack sommerset]

Suffering is only temporary. Are you too big of a pussy to endure suffering. You can learn great things from suffering and in the end when it is all over you are better for it.

So true, I don't think Blake is a pussy but all that other stuff is well put. God bless

[Blake]

Suffering is only temporary. Are you too big of a pussy to endure suffering. You can learn great things from suffering and in the end when it is all over you are better for it.

I'm not saying the opposite of that or disagreeing with that at all.

I'm saying God's a sick fuck.

He's like a kid with a magnifying glass in the sun burning ants, only it's not ants.

[mouse]

I'm saying God's a sick fuck.


kinda off topic but I need to know if was you molested as a child?

[silverblk mystix]

I'm not saying the opposite of that or disagreeing with that at all.

I'm saying God's a sick fuck.

He's like a kid with a magnifying glass in the sun burning ants, only it's not ants.

You are pretty blind.

First of all, you don't know what God is and neither does anyone else.
So, who are you even calling a sick fuck?

If you don't even know what God is and you don't really know who or what is the reason that people suffer, then you are talking nonsense.

Sometimes, it's better to think before you speak.

[GoodOdor]

You are pretty blind.

First of all, you don't know what God is and neither does anyone else.
So, who are you even calling a sick fuck?

If you don't even know what God is and you don't really know who or what is the reason that people suffer, then you are talking nonsense.

Sometimes, it's better to think before you speak.

Clearly he's talking about the god of the bible.

I'm not surprised that someone who chooses to abuse inmates find common ground with the god of the old testament tbh.

[silverblk mystix]

Clearly he's talking about the god of the bible.

I'm not surprised that someone who chooses to abuse inmates find common ground with the god of the old testament tbh.

You make even less sense so STFU.

[Blake]

kinda off topic but I need to know if was you molested as a child?

aren't you always complaining of childish insults

[Blake]

Sometimes, it's better to think before you speak.

I've thought about this:

You're an idiot.

[mouse]

Evolutionists believe the earth was a result of a huge explosion.

aka "the big bang"

what they wont tell you is all matter that explodes from a single mass the particles rotate in the same direction outwards yet we have are moons in the solar system spinning in the opposite direction of the "big Bang"

these questions are hard to answer when you have to rely on Darwin.



where is your Science God now?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_PXufyvWZ2w/TvlpikcpUWI/AAAAAAAAIwY/EbzfT8efBgM/s1600/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

[mouse]

aren't you always complaining of childish insults

only when they are not funny.

[Blake]

only when they are not funny.

Yours are never funny, fwiw

[mouse]

Yours are never funny, fwiw


I had no idea you represent the www.

[Blake]

Evolutionists believe the earth was a result of a huge explosion.

aka "the big bang"

what they wont tell you is all matter that explodes from a single mass the particles rotate in the same direction outwards yet we have are moons in the solar system spinning in the opposite direction of the "big Bang"

these questions are hard to answer when you have to rely on Darwin.



where is your Science God now?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_PXufyvWZ2w/TvlpikcpUWI/AAAAAAAAIwY/EbzfT8efBgM/s1600/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

Where is your theory of the universe?

Chicken.

[RandomGuy]

Would you prefer I type every word for word?

It never fails every debate I do on the age of the earth or Evolution ends in the same way.

Either they say "I refuse to go any further and try to educate you"

Translation: I really can't answer your questions without looking like a fool.


Or else they say "ROFL you copy and paste" "you an ______fill in the blank outdated insult"
Translation: I will do my best to turn this into a smack off.
Anything they can come up with so they don't have to address the issues at hand and answer the tough questions.


But no matter what they say at the end the truth is always you were right, I was wrong, lets move on.


Dunning-Kruger as a Vicious Cycle

Dunning and Kruger often refer to a "double curse" when interpreting their findings: People fail to grasp their own incompetence, precisely because they are so incompetent. And since, overcoming their incompetence would first require the ability to distinguish competence form incompetence people get stuck in a vicious cycle.

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."

[Blake]

I had no idea you represent the www.

I suppose someone out there thinks you are hilarious.

[RandomGuy]

You are pretty blind.

First of all, you don't know what God is and neither does anyone else.
So, who are you even calling a sick fuck?

If you don't even know what God is and you don't really know who or what is the reason that people suffer, then you are talking nonsense.

Sometimes, it's better to think before you speak.

If there is a God, he/it allows an awful lot of suffering. That in and of itself is immoral.

If God is as the bible depicts him, he is immoral, and outright evil.

[mouse]

Where is your theory of the universe?

Chicken.


Your here aren't you?

you think it was pools of warm liquid and unexplained explosions or a designer?

[mouse]

I suppose someone out there thinks you are hilarious.

the universe is still expanding.

[mouse]

RandomLie has officially given up.

http://peterdarling.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c3e8f53ef00e553964b5e8834-800wi

[Blake]

Your here aren't you?

you think it was pools of warm liquid and unexplained explosions or a designer?

you're implying creation now?

You should make up your mind, tbh.

[mouse]

you're implying creation now?

You should make up your mind, tbh.

why should I if Science is constantly revising itself?

[RandomGuy]

RandomLie has officially given up.


I have indeed.

You are too incompetant to deal with rationally.
Unfortunately, that says more about you than me.

[Blake]

why should I if Science is constantly revising itself?

these are the types of posts that have the www laughing at you.

[RandomGuy]

///

[mouse]

I have indeed.

You are too incompetant to deal with rationally.
Unfortunately, that says more about you than me.



see ya!


http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0811/wh_blog_1114.jpg

[Blake]

Oh cool, another lame jpeg.

[mouse]

http://www.remnantofgod.org/images/creation_htm_smartbutton3.gif


Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is within a few thousand of years.

[mouse]

http://www.remnantofgod.org/images/creation_htm_smartbutton7.gif

Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.

[Blake]

post one that is "un-lame"

not my thing.

I'm sure if you start a thread asking for funny jpegs, I'm sure you'll receive enough to make you giggle all night long

[TDMVPDPOY]

how come in the bible doesnt mention anything about humans b4 adam and eve till god perfected in creating them.....

[mouse]

how come in the bible doesnt mention anything about humans b4 adam and eve till god perfected in creating them.....

Because it's not a Science book it doesn't have to lie.


The bible to me is no different than Darwins Orgin of Spieces book.

Has any pastor priest or Sunday school teacher produced proof of Jesus?


Has any Scientist Proffesor or Atheist produced ape man?

Use common sense we are here for a reason and our Minds can't grasp the fact there is a designer involved.

[Blake]

Because it's not a Science book it doesn't have to lie.


The bible to me is no different than Darwins Orgin of Spieces book.

Has any pastor priest or Sunday school teacher produced proof of Jesus?


Has any Scientist Proffesor or Atheist produced ape man?

Use common sense we are here for a reason and our Minds can't grasp the fact there is a designer involved.

Nobody has produced proof that we are here for a reason.

You are in here to be stupid, imo.

[RandomGuy]

Because it's not a Science book it doesn't have to lie.


The bible to me is no different than Darwins Orgin of Spieces book.

Has any pastor priest or Sunday school teacher produced proof of Jesus?


Has any Scientist Proffesor or Atheist produced ape man?

Use common sense we are here for a reason and our Minds can't grasp the fact there is a designer involved.

The origin of species was a book written by a man who made observations about the natural world, and followed the evidence to produce a theory about biology.

The bible is a book that is claimed to be the explanation of the universe, handed down by God.

That you say that both are "no different" is sadly ignorant of both.

[RandomGuy]

Can someone tell me why God hates mixed fabrics?


11Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

or women who wear pants?


5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

They are on the same level as men who lie down with men, it seems.

NO PANTS FOR YOU!

[RandomGuy]

God apparently likes hens too...


6If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young: 7But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.


He also wants us to dress like Davy Crockett?




12Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself.

Where do I go to geteth me mine fringes for my vesture?

http://kingjbible.com/deuteronomy/22.htm

[RandomGuy]

24When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure; but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel.


Yummy.

Now I just need to find a vineyard.

If I get caught, can I say "God told me I could do it."???

[RandomGuy]

13Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small. 14Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small. 15But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 16For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Ok, God hates diverse weights, too.

Really? I can't put large and small weights in a bag?

[reason]

Nobody has produced proof that we are here for a reason.

You are in here to be stupid, imo.

:tu

[mouse]

The origin of species was a book written by a man who made observations about the natural world,

You just described Science.

Science is the modern art of creating stories that explain observations of the natural world, and that could be useful for controlling or predicting nature

[mouse]

The origin of species was a book written by a man who made observations about the natural world, and followed the evidence to produce a theory about biology.

The bible is a book that is claimed to be the explanation of the universe, handed down by God.

That you say that both are "no different" is sadly ignorant of both.

They are still books written by men with beards.

[Blake]

They are still books written by men with beards.

One is based on observable data that can be reproduced.

the other contains stories about zombies and magic tricks among other silly things.

Why are you the only one that doesn't know this?

[RandomGuy]

They are still books written by men with beards.

All books written by men with beards are equal when it comes to being true.

um... okaaaaay.

[RandomGuy]

One is based on observable data that can be reproduced.

the other contains stories about zombies and magic tricks among other silly things.

Why are you the only one that doesn't know this?

Maybe it is because he has a beard.... DUN DUN DUN!

[mouse]

Just when I thought the intelligent reply bar couldn't be lowered anymore.

Face it you clowns are more into very outdated comebacks than trying to learn anything.

I have posted numerous reasons why the Earth can't be 4 Billion years old and how man evolving from an ape is like believing kissing a frog produces a prince.


Not one of you uneducated igmo's has proven man Evolved from an Ape or that the Earth is 4 Billion years old.


And the truth is you won't.

[Amarelooms]

Just when I thought the intelligent reply bar couldn't be lowered anymore.

Face it you clowns are more into very outdated comebacks than trying to learn anything.

I have posted numerous reasons why the Eath can't be 4 Billion years old znd how man evolving from an ape is like believing kissing a frog produces a prince.

Not one of you uneducated igmo's has proven man Evouled from an Ape or that the Earth is 4 Billion years old.

And the truth is you won't.


Jesus died for you...that's all that matters dummy..focus on that. Don't worry about science and facts.....leave that to those of us with IQs over 100. God bless.

:elephant

[IWantsACuatro]

Depends on how epic the beard is, TBH.

[mouse]

Jesus died for you..


Are you saying he's dead?


For those of you who read these topics and are smart enough not to reply or just worried how you will be labeled a Bible Thumper or Darwin worshiper.

I will post some "FACTS"

That even "Science" agrees with.



The San Andreas Fault is one of the most active faults in the North America. It runs into the Pacific Ocean at Tomales Bay, just east of Pt. Reyes, about 30 miles north of San Francisco.

It is said to move from 1/2 to 2 inches per year. How long has it been moving for? The answer varies greatly. Some say it has moved for tens of miles, and others say perhaps hundreds. The evidence is highly questionable.One thing that appears certain is that there is much disagreement with regard to how long this fault has been active. Looking at a geology map of the Pt. Reyes area, one may note that there are a few features that suggest that the fault has not been moving very long.

These are Sand Point, Tom's Point, and Lagunitas Creek.

The fault crosses each of these and yet none of them appear to be offset at all. This evidence suggests that this fault is only a few thousand years old.


So if this proves the Earth isn't even 4 Million" years old how can the
Science books say the Earth "4 Billion" years old?

You ever wonder why Scientist rarely agree to a Live debate on this subject?

There is a reason, they can only "speculate" and use unproven "theories" against proven facts they themselves agree with.

It's like this huge mind fuck and they supplied the Viagra. :lmao

[Jesus]

Are you saying he's dead?

I'm as alive as I've ever been.

[mouse]

I'm as alive as I've ever been.


You may still be a Alive, but your M.I.A. like a muthafocker

[Jesus]

You may still be a Alive, but your M.I.A. like a muthafocker

My son, it is faith that is M.I.A.

[mouse]

My son, it is faith that is M.I.A.

I will show you Faith when you cure Cancer.

[Blake]

Just when I thought the intelligent reply bar couldn't be lowered anymore.

Face it you clowns are more into very outdated comebacks than trying to learn anything.

I have posted numerous reasons why the Earth can't be 4 Billion years old and how man evolving from an ape is like believing kissing a frog produces a prince.


Not one of you uneducated igmo's has proven man Evolved from an Ape or that the Earth is 4 Billion years old.


And the truth is you won't.

mouse:

”scientists lower the intelligent bar.

raise it.”

[Blake]

I'm as alive as I've ever been.

And as lame a comedian as you've ever been.

Bigzak?