Grades: Spurs @ Jazz - Apr. 9

[timvp]

Playing without the Big 3, the Spurs gave the Jazz a run for their money. In front of the Salt Lake City crowd, the Spurs led by as many as eight points in the fourth quarter before the Jazz rallied for a 91-84 victory. The loss snaps San Antonio's 11-game winning streak and drops the Spurs to second place in the Western Conference standings.

The action went back and forth in the first three quarters; neither team was able to put together any sort of sustained run. After a Tiago Splitter free throw put the Spurs up by eight with 8:48 remaining, the Jazz responded with an 8-0 run to tie the game. Gary Neal then hit a triple to put the Spurs up by three, however Devin Harris answered with six consecutive points to put S.A. away for good.

Considering the Spurs were shorthanded and the Jazz desperately needed the win to keep their playoff hopes alive, this was definitely a good effort. No matter what, winning in Utah is a difficult proposition. To have been within a few plays of doing so without the team's three stars is worthy of praise.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/syl9i8.jpg

http://oi44.tinypic.com/5ts00k.jpg

Danny Green C
Early on, Danny Green had great tenacity on defense and was making plays offensively. In the third quarter, he added some timely hoops to help spark San Antonio's run. However, down the stretch in the fourth, Green missed each of his four shots -- all of which were good looks. His inability to score when it was needed most cost the Spurs dearly. Green's defense also became much less technically sound as the game progressed.

Stephen Jackson D-
Back in 2003, Stephen Jackson was known to lay eggs from time to time. Tonight, he reminded us that he's still very much capable of having a horrible shooting night. With the Spurs leaning on him to produce, Jackson failed. Nothing was going for him -- be it layups, long two-pointers or open threes. To make things worse, Jackson got sloppy with the basketball and he was oftentimes out of position on the defensive end due to trying to do too much. It would have been foolish to think that Jackson wouldn't have his bad games from time to time, however this was a poorly timed egg-laying. Even a mediocre performance from him tonight would have been enough to get the job done.

Patrick Mills B-
We're starting to learn more about Patrick Mills and what he brings to the team. The good: Defensively, he's better than advertised. He uses his speed to harass opponents and is able to stay in front of the ball even if he's pressuring full court. On offense, he's a fearless shooter, can score in a variety of ways and is a decent enough ball-handler. The bad: His defensive fundamentals are iffy and he doesn't guard pick-and-rolls well. On offense, he lacks many point guard skills. He doesn't have good court vision, isn't the most willing of passers, doesn't run the pick-and-roll effectively and he's not someone who can consistently create shots for others. Thankfully, when he plays next to Ginobili, most of his weaknesses will be covered and his strengths will be accentuated.

DeJuan Blair B+
The Spurs needed DeJuan Blair to eat a larger piece of the pie than usual and he did just that. He was very productive in his minutes. He actually carried the Spurs early on when the team got off to a slow start. Defensively, Blair had his moments but, overall, he was below average. When the Jazz took the time to isolate their bigs against him, they usually had success. Rebounding-wise, while his total appears adequate, I thought there were three or four more boards out there that he should have pulled down.

Boris Diaw C-
Boris Diaw looked especially slow tonight. I'm not sure if he was tired or what but he wasn't moving too swiftly up and down the court. Defensively, he ruined what could have been a very positive night by needlessly fouling a few times. Only pulling down four defensive boards in 44 minutes against the Jazz in the last two days is a concern. On offense, he just wasn't very helpful. His much-ballyhooed passing ability never made an appearance. Without his passing, the rest of his offense simply isn't good enough.

Gary Neal A-
His stats don't look pretty and some of his play was downright ugly but I think Gary Neal deserves a huge amount of credit for keeping the Spurs in the ballgame. He was the only player on the team who could consistently create shots for himself and others. Especially in the halfcourt setting, the Spurs were lost when Neal wasn't in the game. He continues to show a lot of growth as a player. Today, it's not uncommon to see him handle a ton of pressure and still be able to easily orchestrate the offense. Defensively, Neal was much better than usual. He had a few mistakes like always but he gave really good effort and his hustle garnered the Spurs a few extra possessions.

Matt Bonner C-
Matt Bonner is one Spurs player who will be actively rooting against the Spurs facing the Jazz in the playoffs. Utah has four bigmen and they basically all took turns throwing Bonner around. To his credit, Bonner was able to fight back a few times ... but that didn't happen too often. It was extremely difficult for him to defend the low post or rebound. Offensively, he was efficient for three and a half quarters. Then the pressure increased and Bonner fizzled. I can't say I was shocked.

Tiago Splitter A
The Jazz were throwing everything they had at Tiago Splitter but the Brazilian was still able to produce at a high clip. Offensively, he found ways to score -- whether it was on post-ups, in pick-and-roll sets or on the offensive glass. Defensively, I thought this was his best outing since he missed time due to back spasms. He was physical, protected the rim well and showed a lot of mobility. Overall, this was a step forward for Splitter as he proves to the coaches that he's ready for the forthcoming playoff battles.

Kawhi Leonard B+
There was a lot to like about Kawhi Leonard's play. Offensively, he took it upon himself to create plays at times and he had some success. Though he made mistakes, most of his errors were good thoughts gone bad. Defensively, he played solid individual defense against a number of different players. His quickness and length allowed him to make a key plays on D. My sole issue with Leonard tonight is I thought he could have made all the difference if he would have been more focused on cleaning up the defensive glass. The Spurs were desperate for defensive boards and Leonard is one of the few players who was capable of coming up with those balls.

Pop B-
On one hand, Pop deserves a lot of credit for having this team ready to play hard and confidently enough to almost escape with a victory. On the other hand, his rotation was flawed -- especially in hindsight. Going with more of Splitter and Blair would have helped. On the perimeter, less of Jackson and Green along with more of Neal and Leonard would have made things easier. All in all, I agree with Pop resting the Big 3 because health is more important than everything right now. With two noteworthy upcoming games against the Lakers and Grizzlies, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the role players can put this loss behind them and move forward.

[jestersmash]

Glad to see Gary's positive performance (given the circumstances) didn't go unnoticed. I completely agree with his A- grade.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

The Spurs needed DeJuan Blair to eat a larger piece of the pie than usual


:lol Nice choice of words

[vander]

and yet, despite Bonners' C- and anti-clutchness, the Spurs were not outscored while he was on the court :p:

so Bonner @ C- > Splitter @ A :lol

[Robz4000]

Good write-up. Can't say I really disagree with any grade outside of Bonner (he played a man's game tonight defensively and his three rebounds were hard-fought) who should be given a B-.

[100%duncan]

As much as I love DaTrillStak5 I thought he deserved an F. Bounce back Capt. Jack! Bounce back!

[ducks]

was really upset at sj tonight
I thought he would man up tonight and go for 25

[ducks]

thought green could have made more shots to

[roycrikside]

It would've been nice for Pop to give Anderson a shot when it was clear that Green and Jackson both didn't have it tonight. We played more than well enough to win defensively. Just needed a few more buckets.

[angelbelow]

Would have loved for us to steal this one in Utah but the loss isn't a big deal. Better to be ready for Wednesday game against the Lakers. I've seen enough of this Jazz team and would love to play them in the 1st round.

While benching the big 3 certainly made things harder for everyone else basketball wise, I thought it had a negative effect on the rest of the team's mentality. Only Blair and Leonard played with their usual energy and intensity - everyone else flopped.

Tiago Splitter - Really disappointed in Splitter tonight. I think his leadership is non-existent both verbally and symbolically. First, he got destroyed by the refs and all he does is smirk, tilt his head to the right, and walk away. What he should be doing is snapping and getting T-ed up to send a message. Second, he was clearly shoved by Al Jefferson on a few rebounding opporuntities but instead of retaliating he just takes it. Third, and this is subjective, but I hate when players give up before the horn sounds. Green was still pressuring the ball but Tiago decided it was time to sulk and go for a causal stroll. Additionally I think this should have been a statement game from him with Duncan out. IIRC, Blair has always played well when the big 3/ or Duncan sits. I have no doubts about Splitters talents or skill level. And I still think he needs to play 25+ minutes per game.. but he is no leader. Luckily, we don't need him to on this team.

Matt Bonner - Shot the ball well in the first 3 quarters, but struggled in the 4th. I thought most of them were good looks so he needs to stay confident and keep shooting. Something to keep an eye on for the rest of the month: April 2012 (5 games): 35% from 3s. April 2011 (13 games including playoffs): 33% from 3s. April 2010 (14 games including playoffs): 35% from 3s.

Green - Really needs to work on his drives. Looks way too soft and out of control.

Jackson - Struggled on offense but that was mainly because he had an off shooting night. It wasn't a result of chucking, bad shots, selfishness or trolling etc and that's important to note. He was also one of the only guys trying to execute the offense and move the ball as the game was coming to a close. His animated and enthusiastic reaction to some of the bogus fouls were awesome to watch as well.

Diaw - Did he play tonight? I tried looking for him but he was no where to be found.

Devin Harris - Lol.. hitting 3 3s against us again. And this time, 2 in crunch time. Standard.. I guess.

Hayward - Did some nice things tonight and looks like a completely different player from last year. His ballhandling and passing isn't as bad as I thought and he has some athleticism. But like with every wing from the weak draft of 2010, I wonder if James Anderson would be more productive he traded places with Hayward.

Pop - I liked his decision to bench the big 3. Normally I prefer to play rather than baby. But 8 games in 11 days is just dumb, especially with the playoffs around the corner. I thought he should have played Blair more because Bonner was taking a beating from Milsap and Favors. Leonard should have saw more minutes as well (unless he was trying to semi-rest him too). On the fence about this one, but Pop could have called a timeout around 2:10 because we took and missed 4 3pointer leading up to that moment. But I can see the value in letting the lineup play it out.

Despite all the negatives, we had a great shot to win the game. In fact, I think the Jazz got kind of lucky with Harris hitting 2 clutch 3s, Milsap being completely unchecked on that offensive rebound/put back (who was supposed to cover him I dont remember?), and the referees being whistle happy in favor of the Jazz.

[TheSkeptic]

Thanks :toast

[wildbill2u]

Jax has always been just a passable shooter, but 16% when the chips were down isn't acceptable.

Anyone with the nickname "Capt" ought to be able to show the youngsters some veteran leadership at the very least-- and that didn't happen.

Jax didn't make love to pressure tonight. He let pressure fuck with HIM.

[ElNono]

Danke

[ElNono]

Jax has always been just a passable shooter, but 16% when the chips were down isn't acceptable.

Anyone with the nickname "Capt" ought to be able to show the youngsters some veteran leadership at the very least-- and that didn't happen.

Jax didn't make love to pressure tonight. He let pressure fuck with HIM.


Fuck yo post clown

[loveforthegame]

I hope Jackson and Green come out with something to prove against the Lakers. I'm sure they'd like to forget this game too.

[TheSkeptic]

Would have loved for us to steal this one in Utah but the loss isn't a big deal. Better to be ready for Wednesday game against the Lakers. I've seen enough of this Jazz team and would love to play them in the 1st round.

While benching the big 3 certainly made things harder for everyone else basketball wise, I thought it had a negative effect on the rest of the team's mentality. Only Blair and Leonard played with their usual energy and intensity - everyone else flopped.

Tiago Splitter - Really disappointed in Splitter tonight. I think his leadership is non-existent both verbally and symbolically. First, he got destroyed by the refs and all he does is smirk, tilt his head right, and walk away. What he should be doing is snapping and getting T-ed up to send a message. Second, he was clearly shoved by Al Jefferson on a few rebounding opporuntities but instead of retaliating he just takes it. Third, and this is subjective, but I hate when players give up before the horn sounds. Green was still pressuring the ball but Tiago decided it was time to sulk and go for a causal stroll. Additionally I think this should have been a statement game from him with Duncan out. IIRC, Blair has always played well when the big 3/ or Duncan sits. I have no doubts about Splitters talents or skill level. And I still think he needs to play 25+ minutes per game.. but he is no leader. Luckily, we don't need him to on this team.

Matt Bonner - Shot the ball well in the first 3 quarters, but struggled in the 4th. I thought most of them were good looks so he needs to stay confident and keep shooting. Something to keep an eye on for the rest of the month: April 2012 (5 games): 35% from 3s. April 2011 (13 games including playoffs): 33% from 3s. April 2010 (14 games including playoffs): 35% from 3s.

Green - Really needs to work on his drives. Looks way too soft and out of control.

Jackson - Struggled on offense but that was mainly because he had an off shooting night. It wasn't a result of chucking, bad shots, selfishness or trolling etc and that's important to note. He was also one of the only guys trying to execute the offense and move the ball as the game was coming to a close. His animated and enthusiastic reaction to some of the bogus fouls were awesome to watch as well.

Diaw - Did he play tonight? I tried looking for him but he was no where to be found.

Devin Harris - Lol.. hitting 3 3s against us again. And this time, 2 in crunch time. Standard.. I guess.

Hayward - Did some nice things tonight and looks like a completely different player from last year. His ballhandling and passing isn't as bad as I thought and he has some athleticism. But like with every wing from the weak draft of 2010, I wonder if James Anderson would be more productive he traded places with Hayward.

Pop - I liked his decision to bench the big 3. Normally I prefer to play rather than baby. But 8 games in 11 days is just dumb, especially with the playoffs around the corner. I thought he should have played Blair more because Bonner was taking a beating from Milsap and Favors. Leonard should have saw more minutes as well (unless he was trying to semi-rest him too). On the fence about this one, but Pop could have called a timeout around 2:10 because we took and missed 4 3pointer leading up to that moment. But I can see the value in letting the lineup play it out.

Despite all the negatives, we had a great shot to win the game. In fact, I think the Jazz got kind of lucky with Harris hitting 2 clutch 3s, Milsap being completely unchecked on that offensive rebound/put back (who was supposed to cover him I dont remember?), and the referees being whistle happy in favor of the Jazz.

Interesting take.

It's kind of reassuring to know that Bonner's just going through his annual slump. He should probably just be bridging quarters and having his minutes reduced to about 10 in my opinion. I have no idea how the team plans to overcome his shooting woes in the playoffs when he's eating up 20-25 a game. The only solution is to play him as a situational player as opposed to a rotation big.

You know angel, I suspect that that's primarily a cultural difference. For a player who's just come from Europe and is only just seeing playing time, Tiago's leadership skills/chippiness (or lack thereof) are about where I'd expect them to be. Maybe one of the Brazilian/Spanish posters can elaborate on what he was like on the international scene.

I didn't have a problem with Jax overall outside of his shooting, but Leonard probably needed to play more. Anderson, as well, deserved a look because the others weren't really making their shots. As for the point guard situation, it went exactly as I feared. I really don't trust Neal without Manu or Patty Mills to run the point for extended periods although Neal is certainly getting better.

To be honest, I thought that's where the team really suffered this game. With someone like say TJ Ford, for example, I think the offense and guys like Tiago would've done better this game.

[mercos]

I was impressed that with no big three the team only had 14 turnovers. The offense looked downright ugly at times, so that is quite an accomplishment. Interior play was critical tonight. The Jazz got 13 blocks and altered far more shots. The Spurs missed a couple of easy layups that they should have made. That physical inside play is what everyone thinks will give the Spurs trouble in the playoffs. To only lose by 7 against that type of team without the big three is very reassuring.

[Hoops Czar]

Jazz played like shit from start to finish and the Spurs couldn't capitalize. Spurs destroyed on the boards again.... And anyone expecting much in the way of scoring from S-Jax this year is in for a rude awakening. How the f do you get rejected Devon Fucking harris???

[mkurts]

The score of D- is far too kind for Stephen Jackson - the way he played today he deserved an E or worse.

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the game recap and grades Tim.

[Manufan909]

Thanks!!! Wish I could've caught the game, and seen all the young guys battling... wouldn't have enjoyed Jax sucking it up, but what can you do?

[freetiago]

hopefully this shuts up the patty mills backup talk
hes nothing but a smaller more shot happy gary neal who shoots worse
has horrible court vision
hes actually better defensively but mostly because hes quick while gary is probably the slowest player on the floor outside of centers

this game also showed the impact duncan has
we didnt really need ginobili or parker but duncan alone would have won it
so many missed shots/free throws which duncan would have cleaned up that ended in offensive rebounds for utah
even at his age he gets it done with his fundamentals

[Obstructed_View]

Trainwreck of a starting lineup. How many days before we declare that Pop is just subbing guys in at random with no regard for how they're actually producing or playing together?

[pgardn]

Neal can shoot a team right into, or out of, a game. And he did both. He was one of the only creators. But he took some very quick shots that got the Jazz started back the other way at an advantage. His shot selection as a PG is really not good. His instant offense as a two is his real role. Or at "point" with Manu.

Diaw is just not in shape. Back to back when fat, its not gonna work. He is not there yet. He is actually having to play hard.

Its fun to watch what happens with the backups when Tony, Manu, and Tim are not on the floor. It really helps show the limitations of players who try to do what they are really not capable of doing. But you have to give some of them credit for at least stepping up and not hiding.

[Fireball]

With Green and Jax sucking badly I really would have loved to see more of James Anderson ... I bet he would have hit more threes than Jax in as many attempts. But I still like how the team played in the Jazz environment. And a big *lol* at the Jazz announcers for celebrating that win big time although the Big Three did not play for SA.

[EVAY]

I agree with sitting the big three. But I was surprised that you were so hard on some of the guys and not all.

Let's face it, the big three are the guys that make these guys look so good. So when the big three are not around, why should it surprise anyone that they don't look so great without the enabling presence of 3 all stars?

Bonner playing really good defense for 3 1/2 quarters and making some big-tiem shots at the end of periods would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago. Now, he is criticized for ONLY doing what would have been impossible a couple of years ago.

The decision to sit the big three was Pop's. It was probably a good decision. Given that, he alone is responsible for the loss, and doesn't deserve a better grade than the players he decided to put in without their safety nets. He had to know there was a good chance to lose this game, and I think he did. So I think he thought it was all right. So, let him have the fruits of his decision making...a grade no better than the team he put on the floor.

If we win against the Lakers and Memphis because of this decision, THAT'S when Pop's grade should reflect the good decision to take all of his all-stars out in order to prep for those games.

[elbamba]

Two things that stood out to me last night. The first was that our guards and small forwards "smalls", shot way too much. I understand that shooters need to shoot, but Tiago should have taken 16 shots tonight instead of the 8 he got.

Second, the foul shooting says everything you need to know about the second half. Those touch fouls that Harris got were crap. Its hard to stay in a game when the home team takes 23 more free throws than you. Part of that was the guards taking too many jump shots but the other part was not getting rewarded when we took the ball to the whole. Spurs had too many points in the paint to shoot 10 free throws.

[lefty]

Did Pop stay on the floor at halftime to coach some players ? :lol

[DMC]

The game was lost at the FT line. We just didn't get there enough for whatever reason.

[DMC]

Two things that stood out to me last night. The first was that our guards and small forwards "smalls", shot way too much. I understand that shooters need to shoot, but Tiago should have taken 16 shots tonight instead of the 8 he got.

Second, the foul shooting says everything you need to know about the second half. Those touch fouls that Harris got were crap. Its hard to stay in a game when the home team takes 23 more free throws than you. Part of that was the guards taking too many jump shots but the other part was not getting rewarded when we took the ball to the whole. Spurs had too many points in the paint to shoot 10 free throws.
I thought about this too, and though I am not a conspiracy person, I had to wonder if there wasn't some angst against the Spurs for sitting their stars intentionally.

Also, I think role players (everyone on the floor for the Spurs) play better at home, and they are more aggressive at home than on the road. The aggression last night was spotty and forced at times. At home, it comes in the flow of the game. Refs detect that and watch for contact. They probably also got some feedback from the previous game and were trying to balance it out. It seems they do that, like when one admits to a coach he missed a call, then you will see him ignore a call the other way and it balances out. Piss poor management if you ask me, but that how it goes.

[ohmwrecker]

Buckets totally RJ'd that game.

[Dex]

Buckets totally RJ'd that game.

Not quite. At least Buckets showed some balls and tried to make a difference...he just couldn't get a shot to go. And he was still aggressive on defense.

Jefferson would have done his usual "blend into the background" business and camped on the three-point line, and would've been a weeping vagina on defense as per usual.

[DPG21920]

I thought this was Bonners best game of the season and even after this unbelievable performance you give him a C?

No class.

[Mugen]

Is Tiago okay? He played 26 mins which is obviously way too many for somebody as injury prone and unconditioned as him...

Still, he looked pretty good scoring in the post, passing out of it and being the defensive anchor. It's a shame that nobody else stepped up to help Tiago grind out the victory.

How many more shits does Tiago have to take on Bonner & Pop before he can get the mins. he deserves?

[Blake]

Referees: D-

[silverblk mystix]

Would have loved for us to steal this one in Utah but the loss isn't a big deal. Better to be ready for Wednesday game against the Lakers. I've seen enough of this Jazz team and would love to play them in the 1st round.

While benching the big 3 certainly made things harder for everyone else basketball wise, I thought it had a negative effect on the rest of the team's mentality. Only Blair and Leonard played with their usual energy and intensity - everyone else flopped.

Tiago Splitter - Really disappointed in Splitter tonight. I think his leadership is non-existent both verbally and symbolically. First, he got destroyed by the refs and all he does is smirk, tilt his head to the right, and walk away. What he should be doing is snapping and getting T-ed up to send a message. Second, he was clearly shoved by Al Jefferson on a few rebounding opporuntities but instead of retaliating he just takes it. Third, and this is subjective, but I hate when players give up before the horn sounds. Green was still pressuring the ball but Tiago decided it was time to sulk and go for a causal stroll. Additionally I think this should have been a statement game from him with Duncan out. IIRC, Blair has always played well when the big 3/ or Duncan sits. I have no doubts about Splitters talents or skill level. And I still think he needs to play 25+ minutes per game.. but he is no leader. Luckily, we don't need him to on this team.

Matt Bonner - Shot the ball well in the first 3 quarters, but struggled in the 4th. I thought most of them were good looks so he needs to stay confident and keep shooting. Something to keep an eye on for the rest of the month: April 2012 (5 games): 35% from 3s. April 2011 (13 games including playoffs): 33% from 3s. April 2010 (14 games including playoffs): 35% from 3s.

Green - Really needs to work on his drives. Looks way too soft and out of control.

Jackson - Struggled on offense but that was mainly because he had an off shooting night. It wasn't a result of chucking, bad shots, selfishness or trolling etc and that's important to note. He was also one of the only guys trying to execute the offense and move the ball as the game was coming to a close. His animated and enthusiastic reaction to some of the bogus fouls were awesome to watch as well.

Diaw - Did he play tonight? I tried looking for him but he was no where to be found.

Devin Harris - Lol.. hitting 3 3s against us again. And this time, 2 in crunch time. Standard.. I guess.

Hayward - Did some nice things tonight and looks like a completely different player from last year. His ballhandling and passing isn't as bad as I thought and he has some athleticism. But like with every wing from the weak draft of 2010, I wonder if James Anderson would be more productive he traded places with Hayward.

Pop - I liked his decision to bench the big 3. Normally I prefer to play rather than baby. But 8 games in 11 days is just dumb, especially with the playoffs around the corner. I thought he should have played Blair more because Bonner was taking a beating from Milsap and Favors. Leonard should have saw more minutes as well (unless he was trying to semi-rest him too). On the fence about this one, but Pop could have called a timeout around 2:10 because we took and missed 4 3pointer leading up to that moment. But I can see the value in letting the lineup play it out.

Despite all the negatives, we had a great shot to win the game. In fact, I think the Jazz got kind of lucky with Harris hitting 2 clutch 3s, Milsap being completely unchecked on that offensive rebound/put back (who was supposed to cover him I dont remember?), and the referees being whistle happy in favor of the Jazz.

[silverblk mystix]

I saw this too...but then I rewinded it to make sure...and if you watch the tape...Pop is at the sideline and the Spurs players are still getting after it...but you can see Pop waving his hands and telling the players...to stop ...to just back off...and this is when Tiago starts walking to the dressing room...

[Mugen]

Tiago Splitter - Really disappointed in Splitter tonight. I think his leadership is non-existent both verbally and symbolically. First, he got destroyed by the refs and all he does is smirk, tilt his head to the right, and walk away. What he should be doing is snapping and getting T-ed up to send a message. Second, he was clearly shoved by Al Jefferson on a few rebounding opporuntities but instead of retaliating he just takes it. Third, and this is subjective, but I hate when players give up before the horn sounds. Green was still pressuring the ball but Tiago decided it was time to sulk and go for a causal stroll. Additionally I think this should have been a statement game from him with Duncan out. IIRC, Blair has always played well when the big 3/ or Duncan sits. I have no doubts about Splitters talents or skill level. And I still think he needs to play 25+ minutes per game.. but he is no leader. Luckily, we don't need him to on this team.


:lol @ calling out a 2nd year player for not being a leader on a team with the Big 3/Pop/Jack. It's hard to be considered a leader when Pop relegates you to 4th/5th big status, tbh.

And you really think Tiago should be getting technicals and shoving Al Jefferson around? You really think that would help his case of getting more playing time with Pop? He was one of the few guys battling for defensive boards and you complain about him not being aggressive enough. Like him getting a T or jawing at the officials is really gonna help him get more calls

Tiago was the best player on the team last night BY FAR and you were still dissappointed him. Solid take.

[JR3]

I'm glad a traded down my tickets last night. I did get a bunch of autographs last night though, and I also go some one on one with RC. Good times.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534563_628328982688_116701043_32455530_1934889712_ n.jpg

[SenorSpur]

Great writeup, as always.

This star-less Spurs team that took the court in Utah was overmatched talent-wise, but they STILL could have and should have won this game. I don't believe in moral victories, but other than getting some rest for the Big Three, I hope there is something good that can come out of this.

That said, the ball movement in this game was less than stellar. Early on, it seemed there were too many guys trying to "do their own thing".

I don't agree with the grade for Gary Neal. If he were being graded as a SG, then it would be sufficient. He created offense for himself, hit some key outside shots, but he missed several shots in the paint area. I guess his floater needs some work. However as a backup PG, he was awful - yet again. He was slow to get the team into their sets, he became a bit shot-happy, while he ignored open shooters on the perimeter. In fact, there were times where either Bonner, Leonard or Jackson were clearly open and waiting for the ball on the perimeter, while Neal either ignored them or didn't see them. Sean Elliott mentioned this several times. Neal was the sole source of stagnant ball movement, but he sure didn't help much.

As for Bonner, I don't always advocate him getting more shots - especially on the road - but he probably should've gotten more looks than he did. Of course, when he did get open looks in the 4th quarter of a crucial road game, in a playoff-like atmosphere, he choked them away as usual.

As for Jackson, this was probably his worse game as a Spurs.

Something else that stuck out for me was how the Spurs were overwhelmed by the superior athleticism of the Utah frontline. The Jazz recorded 13 blocks and protected the rim very well. Their physicality caused Spurs players to seemingly wilt under force and become both unaggressive and noncommital when driving to the rim. It seems every Spurs player was either looking to pass, once they penetrated the paint or take an awkward-looking shot.

The Jazz literally pushed the Spurs bigs around the court, fouled them hard and got repeated second-chance looks by physically beating them to rebounds. It seemed that the Spurs gave up challenging them because they couldn't match their physicality. Watching the way the Spurs were manhandled, brought up thoughts of that failed playoff series versus the Grizzlies.

Therefore, it's still apparent that, even after the recent acquisitions, the Spurs STILL do not have the necessary size and athleticism needed to challenge the bigger frontlines of the West. Even with Duncan, they are still way too undersized and very vulnerable along the frontline against certain teams. Looking down the road at possible playoff matchups, that should still be a concern.

[T Park]

Gary Neal an A?

Good god....

[T Park]

I thought this was Bonners best game of the season and even after this unbelievable performance you give him a C?

No class.


God opposing. Viewpoints really bother you don't they.


Settle the hell down.

[timtonymanurich]

My synopsis after having BEEN at the Jazz vs. Spurs game last night:

Spurs 2nd and 3rd stringers put up a decent fight. We SHOULD HAVE won the game, but we lost a 10-pt. lead due to a few untimely missed shots and Tiago Splitter broadcasting where each shot was going just to make it easier to get blocked by which ever Jazz big man happened to be defending him.

Captain Jack was a disdainful 2-13 from the field. There were a few drives to the hoop that Stephen has that he was fouled pretty obvious on, and the stripes swallowed the whistle on. S-JAX did his typical stare-the-official-down for NOT making the painfully obvious call, all three no-calls resulted in Jazz transition buckets.

Devin Harris, can't take anything away from a guy who 'Gary Neals' - Gary Neal (Meaning he pulls up for a random 3 that the defense cannot react soon enough to defend) 2x; BOTH threes at the waning 2 minutes left in the game were the momentum killers for the Spurs and the momentum boosters for the Jazz players/fans. Rightly so. Buckets in transition; ESPECIALLY transition 3's are CRITICAL. They are the shots that if you take them and MISS them you're a frrriggin idiot, but if you MAKE them you're a MAD GENIOUS (Interesting how often those two traits coincide...)

All in all, the refs missed calls on BOTH sides as to be expected in Utah, and We missed/had shots blocked that turned into scoring opportunities for the Jazz. Spurs SHOULD have won the game, but the Jazz caught a few lucky breaks and had the shots fall that they needed.

I don't know what's MORE embarrassing for the Jazz however, the FACT that the Spurs 2nd and 3rd stringers nearly (and SHOULD HAVE) beat the Jazz starters, OR that the Jazz fans were cheering and celebrating their hollow victory over the Spurs as if they JUST won the FINALS.

You decide.

I had some friends gimme crap about the Spurs loss last night, and the ONLY thing I could think to say was, "Well, I'll tell you how it feels to be in the playoffs already..."

ALWAYS shuts them up.

[T Park]

The Tiago homers get testy when you criticize their player too.

Getting COM pruportions....

[Obstructed_View]

The Tiago homers get testy when you criticize their player too.

Getting COM pruportions....

God opposing. Viewpoints really bother you don't they.


Settle the hell down

[Mugen]

What makes you think I'm a Tiago homer?

[DesignatedT]

Defensively Mills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Neal

[Vic Petro]

Very generous grade for Tiago imo...

[ohmwrecker]

Not quite. At least Buckets showed some balls and tried to make a difference...he just couldn't get a shot to go. And he was still aggressive on defense.

Jefferson would have done his usual "blend into the background" business and camped on the three-point line, and would've been a weeping vagina on defense as per usual.

Obviously, ultimately, I would rather have a Steamy Jackson over an Breacher Jefferson, but a turd is a turd no matter how you lay it.

[skin]

so Bonner @ C- > Splitter @ A

:lmao




Tiago Splitter - Really disappointed in Splitter tonight. I think his leadership is non-existent both verbally and symbolically. First, he got destroyed by the refs and all he does is smirk, tilt his head to the right, and walk away. What he should be doing is snapping and getting T-ed up to send a message. Second, he was clearly shoved by Al Jefferson on a few rebounding opporuntities but instead of retaliating he just takes it. Third, and this is subjective, but I hate when players give up before the horn sounds. Green was still pressuring the ball but Tiago decided it was time to sulk and go for a causal stroll. Additionally I think this should have been a statement game from him with Duncan out. IIRC, Blair has always played well when the big 3/ or Duncan sits. I have no doubts about Splitters talents or skill level. And I still think he needs to play 25+ minutes per game.. but he is no leader. Luckily, we don't need him to on this team.

Tiago has never been a leader and IMO he'll never be one however luckily Spurs don't need him as leader at least atm.

I slightly disagree about the statement game from him. He didn't play bad at all. If you check the grades again you'll see he got the best grade among our players although I thought timvp was quite generous as far as grade for Tiago. Don't you forget he only played 26 minutes and in the 4th quarter his teammates failed to pass the ball to him many times especially in the last minutes of the game. So it is obvious he doesn't get respect from refs as well as some of his teammates.

IMO we're facing a different problem. timvp pointed out long ago in one of these countless "Free Tiago" threads. Tiago doesn't start over Blair cause Pop sees the first one as 4 and Splitter as 5. But when Tim sits out for the night and Tiago isn't a starter, what sort of message is Pop sending to Splitter? I don't trust you.

If it is true, FO should address this issue trading Splitter in the offseason to someone chosen by Pop, cause Splitter still has good trading value.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Trainwreck of a starting lineup. How many days before we declare that Pop is just subbing guys in at random with no regard for how they're actually producing or playing together?

My thoughts exactly.

How do you not start Splitter next to Blair? Splitter is arguably the best Spur after the Big Three, and yet when they sit he doesnt start?

And no Kawhi Leonard in the starting line-up? Danny Green fits in nicely in our usual starting line-up but tonight he didn't need to be out there so much. Kawhi or Neal should have had his spot. Really disappointed by Leonard's relatively low minutes last night as well.

[Mel_13]

:lmao



Tiago has never been a leader and IMO he'll never be one however luckily Spurs don't need him as leader at least atm.

I slightly disagree about the statement game from him. He didn't play bad at all. If you check the grades again you'll see he got the best grade among our players although I thought timvp was quite generous as far as grade for Tiago. Don't you forget he only played 26 minutes and in the 4th quarter his teammates failed to pass the ball to him many times especially in the last minutes of the game. So it is obvious he doesn't get respect from refs as well as some of his teammates.

IMO we're facing a different problem. timvp pointed out long ago in one of these countless "Free Tiago" threads. Tiago doesn't start over Blair cause Pop sees the first one as 4 and Splitter as 5. But when Tim sits out for the night and Tiago isn't a starter, what sort of message is Pop sending to Splitter? I don't trust you.

If it is true, FO should address this issue trading Splitter in the offseason to someone chosen by Pop, cause Splitter still has good trading value.

Not at all. When Blair sat, Diaw took his spot. When Duncan sat, the same. The remaining three fourths of the big rotations stay in their normal places in the rotation.

[T Park]

God opposing. Viewpoints really bother you don't they.


Settle the hell down


Opposing viewpoints don't bother me at all.

Your post makes zero sense.

[T Park]

Very generous grade for Tiago imo...


Eh I thought he played well.

The Neal grade is about the only I disagree with.

[DPG21920]

Eh I thought he played well.

The Neal grade is about the only I disagree with.

So you say Bonner has his best game of the year, he gets a C- & you don't disagree?

[skin]

Not at all. When Blair sat, Diaw took his spot. When Duncan sat, the same. The remaining three fourths of the big rotations stay in their normal places in the rotation.

Mel I'm talking about yesterday. Tim as we know had a night off then Blair & Diaw were starters.

[Mel_13]

Mel I'm talking about yesterday. Tim as we know had a night off then Blair & Diaw were starters.

I was talking about the two Utah games. One big was rested in each game. Diaw took the place of the missing big in each game allowing the other three bigs to remain in their normal rotation spots.

Much more likely explanation than "Pop doesn't trust Tiago".

[T Park]

So you say Bonner has his best game of the year, he gets a C- & you don't disagree?


Bonner's had a shitty year.

[T Park]

I was talking about the two Utah games. One big was rested in each game. Diaw took the place of the missing big in each game allowing the other three bigs to remain in their normal rotation spots.

Much more likely explanation than "Pop doesn't trust Tiago".


Yeah but it's so much fun to rip the shit out of pop....

[TJastal]

:lmao



Tiago has never been a leader and IMO he'll never be one however luckily Spurs don't need him as leader at least atm.

I slightly disagree about the statement game from him. He didn't play bad at all. If you check the grades again you'll see he got the best grade among our players although I thought timvp was quite generous as far as grade for Tiago. Don't you forget he only played 26 minutes and in the 4th quarter his teammates failed to pass the ball to him many times especially in the last minutes of the game. So it is obvious he doesn't get respect from refs as well as some of his teammates.

IMO we're facing a different problem. timvp pointed out long ago in one of these countless "Free Tiago" threads. Tiago doesn't start over Blair cause Pop sees the first one as 4 and Splitter as 5. But when Tim sits out for the night and Tiago isn't a starter, what sort of message is Pop sending to Splitter? I don't trust you.

If it is true, FO should address this issue trading Splitter in the offseason to someone chosen by Pop, cause Splitter still has good trading value.

Bingo. It's only been pointed out numerous times to these fucktards.

How (or why) should Tiago take on additional leadership responsiblities when he's been repeatedly disrespected and maligned by the coaching staff dating back to last season. If they don't respect him enough as a player to even make him a starter in Duncan's absence that's says volumes about what they think of his abilities.

[T Park]

Lol disrespected and maligned.


Give me 3.5 million a year to play basketball if that's maligning and disrespecting me...


Idiots.

[Mugen]

Bonner's had a shitty year.

He's had the best year of his career, IMO.

[T Park]

He's had the best year of his career, IMO.


I think he played better last year.

Defensively? Yeah he's been better this year.

Offensively? I just don't think so. Overall? A downgrade.

JMSO

[TJastal]

Not at all. When Blair sat, Diaw took his spot. When Duncan sat, the same. The remaining three fourths of the big rotations stay in their normal places in the rotation.

Such a bullshit excuse, but as expected.

As I recall the last time the big 3 sat Bonner got the nod as the starter. "Normal places" LMAO

Pop just plays whatever lineup is catching his fancy for that particular day. And seeing as Tiago has been struggling with confidence issues, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to give him a starting role after two years of service.

[Mel_13]

As usual, someone is relying on faulty recollections, as expected.

[Fireball]

Can we all not be happy and peaceful? We nearly won a game in Utah without Timmy, Manu and TP for gods sake. Lets start bitching when we lose to the Lakers with our full roster ... which I do not think will happen by the way ...

[jjktkk]

I'm glad a traded down my tickets last night. I did get a bunch of autographs last night though, and I also go some one on one with RC. Good times.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534563_628328982688_116701043_32455530_1934889712_ n.jpg

Pretty cool JR3, thanks for sharing. :tu

[T Park]

Such a bullshit excuse, but as expected.

As I recall the last time the big 3 sat Bonner got the nod as the starter. "Normal places" LMAO

Pop just plays whatever lineup is catching his fancy for that particular day. And seeing as Tiago has been struggling with confidence issues, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to give him a starting role after two years of service.



Tiago is struggling with confidence issues?

Who is he Hedo Turkaglo?

Why should his confidence be worried about and not say, Dejuan Blair's?

[Hoops Czar]

He's had the best year of his career, IMO.

He's had a shitty career.

[Obstructed_View]

My thoughts exactly.

How do you not start Splitter next to Blair? Splitter is arguably the best Spur after the Big Three, and yet when they sit he doesnt start?

And no Kawhi Leonard in the starting line-up? Danny Green fits in nicely in our usual starting line-up but tonight he didn't need to be out there so much. Kawhi or Neal should have had his spot. Really disappointed by Leonard's relatively low minutes last night as well.

That second unit that was so good, and was even better when Jefferson was replaced by Jack, seems like a distant memory.

[Mel_13]

That second unit that was so good, and was even better when Jefferson was replaced by Jack, seems like a distant memory.

:lol

You can't remember last Friday night?

[DBMethos]

Attention spans these days...

[Obstructed_View]

:lol

You can't remember last Friday night?

Splitter played ten minutes in a blowout against the worst team in the west, and one guy from that second unit is starting. When exactly did this happen in your estimation? :lol

[Spurtacus]

This was a winnable game but the Spurs executed poorly in the last few minutes. Pop made a mistake by sticking with Neal as the PG and didn't put Mills back into the game until there was a minute or two left. Neal was good for most of the game but the offense collapsed in the second half of the 4th. Bonner also had the most minutes of any big...baffling since the Jazz have a good frontline.

[Mel_13]

Splitter played ten minutes in a blowout against the worst team in the west, and one guy from that second unit is starting. When exactly did this happen in your estimation? :lol

I have no idea what the "this" in your question means?

And do you believe Jack has replaced Kawhi in the SL based upon last night?

[TheSkeptic]

This was a winnable game but the Spurs executed poorly in the last few minutes. Pop made a mistake by sticking with Neal as the PG and didn't put Mills back into the game until there was a minute or two left. Neal was good for most of the game but the offense collapsed in the second half of the 4th. Bonner also had the most minutes of any big...baffling since the Jazz have a good frontline.

You know...the more I think about it the more inclined I am to say that the Spurs need to just make cuts to the roster already.

[Obstructed_View]

I have no idea what the "this" in your question means?



I'm talking about the second unit which was playing well, just like I said. You clearly seem to think that beating up on a shitty team a few days ago makes everything okay.

It was Green, Bonner, Splitter, Jack and Neal that were the unit that was working well. Checking back, it looks like Green was actually starting back then. I'd have liked to see that group get some burn when they needed to win. That group played pretty well. Do you disagree?


And do you believe Jack has replaced Kawhi in the SL based upon last night?


Why would anyone think that? That's not just a strawman, that's a strawspaceman.

[callo1]

Neal made critical blunders when the game was on the line. A- is very generous...I think he should get a B.

Bonner's grade may have been higher if he had received the ball when he was open.

Mills should have been running the point down the stretch. If we want to see what the kid has got, give him the opportunity. Neal is not a point guard.

Jack had the opportunity to lead, but failed to do so. I expected more.

Leonard is a stud...the faster Pop and the team realizes this the better. Give him the ball and let him make plays.

Norris is beginning to remind me of Ian the human foul machine.

Had one of the big three played, that would have been a win.

[angelbelow]

:lol @ calling out a 2nd year player for not being a leader on a team with the Big 3/Pop/Jack. It's hard to be considered a leader when Pop relegates you to 4th/5th big status, tbh.

And you really think Tiago should be getting technicals and shoving Al Jefferson around? You really think that would help his case of getting more playing time with Pop? He was one of the few guys battling for defensive boards and you complain about him not being aggressive enough. Like him getting a T or jawing at the officials is really gonna help him get more calls

Tiago was the best player on the team last night BY FAR and you were still dissappointed him. Solid take.

Mugen, I'm calling him out because I have high hopes for him. Watching him play and develop has been one of my favorite storylines this year. I'm critical of his weaknesses, not his strengths.

With that said, I absolutely thought he should have either verbally or physically retaliated against Al Jefferson. There are a lot of ways to take a shot at someone without blatantly pushing them (which is what Big Al did to Splitter) or getting a technical. Btw, watch Jackson on defense, he constantly throws out cheap shots at opponents.. reminds me of Bruce, Massenburg, Willis :p:

How do you think players get calls from referee's on a consistent basis? IMO there are a few ways:

1. Be an Allstar +
2. Flop with the best of them (Ex. Chris Fall)
3. Build a relationship with the refs (this is something Parker, Ginobili have done expertly.)

Tiago has none of these because he doesn't sell his flops and he never talks to the refs. Is anyone really surprised that he doesn't get calls?

Regarding leadership: I believe that a leader takes action regardless of the circumstance and situation. They don't sit around waiting for opportunities to shine - take make their own opportunities.



Tiago has never been a leader and IMO he'll never be one however luckily Spurs don't need him as leader at least atm.

I slightly disagree about the statement game from him. He didn't play bad at all. If you check the grades again you'll see he got the best grade among our players although I thought timvp was quite generous as far as grade for Tiago. Don't you forget he only played 26 minutes and in the 4th quarter his teammates failed to pass the ball to him many times especially in the last minutes of the game. So it is obvious he doesn't get respect from refs as well as some of his teammates.

That is partial on Splitter. He should be demanding the ball because he's clearly our best/most consistent offensive player in a half court setting. This is where I really think he needs to be more assertive. Also, I think his teammates respect his skills, but aren't good play makers themselves. Other than Stephen Jackson executing a pick and roll with Splitter, everyone else just took a bad shot and failed to move the ball.

[Solid D]

Stephen Jackson D-
Back in 2003, Stephen Jackson was known to lay eggs from time to time. Tonight, he reminded us that he's still very much capable of having a horrible shooting night. With the Spurs leaning on him to produce, Jackson failed. Nothing was going for him -- be it layups, long two-pointers or open threes. To make things worse, Jackson got sloppy with the basketball and he was oftentimes out of position on the defensive end due to trying to do too much. It would have been foolish to think that Jackson wouldn't have his bad games from time to time, however this was a poorly timed egg-laying. Even a mediocre performance from him tonight would have been enough to get the job done.


D- = F+. :) Horrible game for Jack. I totally agree that Jack tried to do too much. Spot-on assessment! The best (or worst) example of that on the defensive end was on the Millsap follow-up slam off of Jefferson's missed j. Jefferson was clearly Tiago's man but Tiago didn't come out to defend Al so Jack moved over to contest Al's shot, leaving the rotation to the only weakside player, Danny Green. Green was guarding against the corner three and was left to try to get over to box out Millsap crashing from the right wing. No way.

There is no doubt that Pop has been on a quest to add more firepower ever since the Mavs shut down the lane on the Spurs, neutering TP in the 2009 playoffs. Pop and RC have added that firepower but the new additions still need a good floor leader and that firepower can still get tired legs and miss shots from time to time.

I feel very good about the Spurs' prospects for the playoffs and Pop's shelving of his Big 3 was a mature and wise plan. At least he's trying to learn from the past in some ways.

[Mel_13]

Why would anyone think that? That's not just a strawman, that's a strawspaceman.

It wasn't a strawman at all. I had no idea you were talking about Green. He's been in the SL since Feb 8th. I assumed you were talking about something much more recent. I believe the second unit has remained effective over the past two months.

[TheSkeptic]

Mugen, I'm calling him out because I have high hopes for him. Watching him play and develop has been one of my favorite storylines this year. I'm critical of his weaknesses, not his strengths.

With that said, I absolutely thought he should have either verbally or physically retaliated against Al Jefferson. There are a lot of ways to take a shot at someone without blatantly pushing them (which is what Big Al did to Splitter) or getting a technical. Btw, watch Jackson on defense, he constantly throws out cheap shots at opponents.. reminds me of Bruce, Massenburg, Willis :p:

How do you think players get calls from referee's on a consistent basis? IMO there are a few ways:

1. Be an Allstar +
2. Flop with the best of them (Ex. Chris Fall)
3. Build a relationship with the refs (this is something Parker, Ginobili have done expertly.)

Tiago has none of these because he doesn't sell his flops and he never talks to the refs. Is anyone really surprised that he doesn't get calls?

Regarding leadership: I believe that a leader takes action regardless of the circumstance and situation. They don't sit around waiting for opportunities to shine - take make their own opportunities.



That is partial on Splitter. He should be demanding the ball because he's clearly our best/most consistent offensive player in a half court setting. This is where I really think he needs to be more assertive. Also, I think his teammates respect his skills, but aren't good play makers themselves. Other than Stephen Jackson executing a pick and roll with Splitter, everyone else just took a bad shot and failed to move the ball.

Ok. That makes sense.

I'd wait until year 3 or 4 before pulling the "he's not a leader" card although I do agree that he's not one on this team at the moment.

The way he relates to the refs and his teammates honestly makes it seem to me like he's still adjusting to the NBA on a cultural level since his behaviour out there looks very international to me. Obviously he's more comfortable than last year but he's not fully settled imo. Still kind of tentative and not sure of himself.

Which, I think, is why he'll ask Tony or Manu to give him the ball but not be nearly as demonstrative with some of the others. And also why he would avoid getting into anything with Jefferson.

Having lived in a few different countries it's something I understand very well. :p:

He's still proving himself somewhat and didn't really play last year so I wouldn't expect him to be up to speed on how reffing works here either. Your expectations on this front were just too high in my opinion.

The only solution really is to give it time.

As an aside, I completely believe SJax when he says he'll step it up against the Lakers. Judging by what I've seen on the Laker forums I really want the Spurs to win this game.

[BackHome]

First time I have not agreed with grades:

Neal - D
Green - D
Mills - D

[Obstructed_View]

It wasn't a strawman at all. I had no idea you were talking about Green. He's been in the SL since Feb 8th. I assumed you were talking about something much more recent. I believe the second unit has remained effective over the past two months.

Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a "second unit" since Green was in it, but now that we're all speaking the same language, I'd like to have seen that group get some burn last night at the end of the game, and I'd like to see them going forward at least when the team needs a spark.

[angelbelow]

Ok. That makes sense.

I'd wait until year 3 or 4 before pulling the "he's not a leader" card although I do agree that he's not one on this team at the moment.

The way he relates to the refs and his teammates honestly makes it seem to me like he's still adjusting to the NBA on a cultural level since his behaviour out there looks very international to me. Obviously he's more comfortable than last year but he's not fully settled imo. Still kind of tentative and not sure of himself.

Which, I think, is why he'll ask Tony or Manu to give him the ball but not be nearly as demonstrative with some of the others. And also why he would avoid getting into anything with Jefferson.

Having lived in a few different countries it's something I understand very well. :p:

He's still proving himself somewhat and didn't really play last year so I wouldn't expect him to be up to speed on how reffing works here either. Your expectations on this front were just too high in my opinion.

The only solution really is to give it time.

As an aside, I completely believe SJax when he says he'll step it up against the Lakers. Judging by what I've seen on the Laker forums I really want the Spurs to win this game.

Sure, that's a fair take. Giving him a few more years to see if he develops some strong leadership habits is fine. But given his basketball background overseas, his lack of demonstrative body language, his preference to not speak up.. I just don't see a leader in the making. Remember, Tiago isn't your typical 2nd year - hes been a professional since the age of 15.

And again, this isn't a bad thing for the Spurs. We have plenty of guys who can fill the void, plus not everyone can be leaders. From a team perspective, he still fits wonderfully and is arguably our 4th best player. From an individual standpoint though, imagine how much higher his value would be if he played the political game as well.

[Mel_13]

Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a "second unit" since Green was in it, but now that we're all speaking the same language, I'd like to have seen that group get some burn last night at the end of the game, and I'd like to see them going forward at least when the team needs a spark.

Yeah, early on we saw units centered around Splitter, Bonner, and Green that were extremely effective. Not so much since Danny moved to the SL. It's something to look forward to when Pop inevitably moves Manu back to the SL.

[Mel_13]

Having lived in a few different countries it's something I understand very well. :p:

Military related?

[therealtruth]

Sure, that's a fair take. Giving him a few more years to see if he develops some strong leadership habits is fine. But given his basketball background overseas, his lack of demonstrative body language, his preference to not speak up.. I just don't see a leader in the making. Remember, Tiago isn't your typical 2nd year - hes been a professional since the age of 15.

And again, this isn't a bad thing for the Spurs. We have plenty of guys who can fill the void, plus not everyone can be leaders. From a team perspective, he still fits wonderfully and is arguably our 4th best player. From an individual standpoint though, imagine how much higher his value would be if he played the political game as well.

You would think a Spanish League MVP would have some leadership skills. It's ridiculous the way the Spurs have treated him giving his winning credentials. They would have been better off making the starting spot his to lose. I mean if T. Chandler comes to this team does Pop bring him off the bench as slowly as he's brought Splitter along?

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, early on we saw units centered around Splitter, Bonner, and Green that were extremely effective. Not so much since Danny moved to the SL. It's something to look forward to when Pop inevitably moves Manu back to the SL.

Fingers crossed on that.

[TheSkeptic]

Sure, that's a fair take. Giving him a few more years to see if he develops some strong leadership habits is fine. But given his basketball background overseas, his lack of demonstrative body language, his preference to not speak up.. I just don't see a leader in the making. Remember, Tiago isn't your typical 2nd year - hes been a professional since the age of 15.

And again, this isn't a bad thing for the Spurs. We have plenty of guys who can fill the void, plus not everyone can be leaders. From a team perspective, he still fits wonderfully and is arguably our 4th best player. From an individual standpoint though, imagine how much higher his value would be if he played the political game as well.

Oh I do know he's not your typical 2nd year. It's just that having watched the Raptors quite a bit (we had Calderon, Bargnani, Garbajosa, etc. Backgrounds not so different from Tiago's imo), most of them acted the same way until they were 1. Comfortable with the league 2. Comfortable with their teammates 3. Felt like they'd earned a spot as part of the team and that they had the support of the coach. The first two, today, are leaders on that team.

You didn't see them leading and rocking the boat all that much before that point. They took their cues from the coaching staff, they were careful to avoid showing emotion, and except when they played with each other you didn't usually see them asking for the ball or shouldering responsibilities to the extent that Tiago has at times.

All things considered, Tiago's probably ahead of them a little bit because at least in a normal game with Tony or Manu he gets the ball when he's calling for it despite playing less. And I thought a few guys like Leonard tried to get it to him last game as well so other than the Coach and his minute distribution he's about where I'd expect him to be respect and team-wise.

Right now I want him to show that he wants to win and he's done that so I'm mostly fine with where he is. And besides, you don't become MVP without *some* leadership skills.

I agree. On this team he really doesn't need to be and I think he admires Tim to the point where he's not going to be playing the politics until he's more acclimated to the NBA and even then he might not lead to a full extent. Just my opinion.



Military related?

No. Tagging along with my parents. I'm only 20. :lol

[Mel_13]

No. Tagging along with my parents. I'm only 20. :lol

:lol

Never would have guessed. You're younger than my daughter.

:depressed Feeling my age now.

[Mugen]

Mel...

http://dailydoseoflies.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/untitled_51.png

[Mel_13]

Mel...

http://dailydoseoflies.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/untitled_51.png

:lmao

[Reck]

Mel...

http://dailydoseoflies.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/untitled_51.png

:lol

I doubt both parties are unwilling though....











Kidding.

[Mugen]

Mugen, I'm calling him out because I have high hopes for him. Watching him play and develop has been one of my favorite storylines this year. I'm critical of his weaknesses, not his strengths.

With that said, I absolutely thought he should have either verbally or physically retaliated against Al Jefferson. There are a lot of ways to take a shot at someone without blatantly pushing them (which is what Big Al did to Splitter) or getting a technical. Btw, watch Jackson on defense, he constantly throws out cheap shots at opponents.. reminds me of Bruce, Massenburg, Willis :p:

How do you think players get calls from referee's on a consistent basis? IMO there are a few ways:

1. Be an Allstar +
2. Flop with the best of them (Ex. Chris Fall)
3. Build a relationship with the refs (this is something Parker, Ginobili have done expertly.)

Tiago has none of these because he doesn't sell his flops and he never talks to the refs. Is anyone really surprised that he doesn't get calls?

Regarding leadership: I believe that a leader takes action regardless of the circumstance and situation. They don't sit around waiting for opportunities to shine - take make their own opportunities.



That is partial on Splitter. He should be demanding the ball because he's clearly our best/most consistent offensive player in a half court setting. This is where I really think he needs to be more assertive. Also, I think his teammates respect his skills, but aren't good play makers themselves. Other than Stephen Jackson executing a pick and roll with Splitter, everyone else just took a bad shot and failed to move the ball.

Fair enough. I don't think Tiago will ever be the kind of guy that throws cheap shots or retaliates. I think he's a lot like Manu in that regard who just brushes off the hits and then uses it as motivation.

I actually think Tiago sells his flops pretty well. Last year, he flopped too often in his limited time and i think that's partly why the officials don't respect him as much. I think the more time he gets, the more he progresses, the more calls he'll be able to get.

I don't see a "leader" in Tiago as well. i don't think it's in his personality and there's nothing wrong with that, especially with this team. But there have been times where he's demanded the ball. i think TP had a quote earlier in the season about Tiago demanding the ball so I dont think you have to wonder whether he is engaged or competitive in that regard.

[TheSkeptic]

Fair enough. I don't think Tiago will ever be the kind of guy that throws cheap shots or retaliates. I think he's a lot like Manu in that regard who just brushes off the hits and then uses it as motivation.

I actually think Tiago sells his flops pretty well. Last year, he flopped too often in his limited time and i think that's partly why the officials don't respect him as much. I think the more time he gets, the more he progresses, the more calls he'll be able to get.

I don't see a "leader" in Tiago as well. i don't think it's in his personality and there's nothing wrong with that, especially with this team. But there have been times where he's demanded the ball. i think TP had a quote earlier in the season about Tiago demanding the ball so I dont think you have to wonder whether he is engaged or competitive in that regard.

It's been a day later and your avatar is still killing me. :lmao

I see where you're coming from in the sense that he does seem to be more good-natured and unassuming but I just don't believe you can be a Regular Season & Finals MVP while having no leadership abilities at all. The Spurs just have an established power structure that Tiago's closer to the bottom of and I think that's what it comes down to.

Unless you put him in charge of the second unit and eventually start him sometime in the future I don't think he'll show/develop that side while on this team either though.

Send him somewhere like the 76ers or the Rockets (oh the bitterness if that happened), let him adjust, and give him regular minutes as well as the ball, and I think he'd surprise us with his abilities. Nothing concrete but having watched a few players come in from Europe and go through this that's my feeling on Tiago.

[angelbelow]

Fair enough. I don't think Tiago will ever be the kind of guy that throws cheap shots or retaliates. I think he's a lot like Manu in that regard who just brushes off the hits and then uses it as motivation.

I actually think Tiago sells his flops pretty well. Last year, he flopped too often in his limited time and i think that's partly why the officials don't respect him as much. I think the more time he gets, the more he progresses, the more calls he'll be able to get.

I don't see a "leader" in Tiago as well. i don't think it's in his personality and there's nothing wrong with that, especially with this team. But there have been times where he's demanded the ball. i think TP had a quote earlier in the season about Tiago demanding the ball so I dont think you have to wonder whether he is engaged or competitive in that regard.

Agreed on Manu not resorting to cheap shots. But that's because he plays a different game, one that's psychological. Additionally, Manu put in his time and built respectable relationships with most of the referees. Which contributes to his mind games and flopping.

The quote that you're referring to regarding Tiago demanding the ball was pretty celebrated around here. I for one was really happy to see him talking about being more assertive. But he's inconsistent and I thought it was noticeable in the 4th. With his b-ball IQ, he should be more vocal when hes on the court. Directing traffic, calling for the ball, keeping players focused, correcting in game mistakes etc, etc.


Oh I do know he's not your typical 2nd year. It's just that having watched the Raptors quite a bit (we had Calderon, Bargnani, Garbajosa, etc. Backgrounds not so different from Tiago's imo), most of them acted the same way until they were 1. Comfortable with the league 2. Comfortable with their teammates 3. Felt like they'd earned a spot as part of the team and that they had the support of the coach. The first two, today, are leaders on that team.

Personally don't like any of the players you mentioned because I think they're all soft. Calderon gave up after he got his contract, Garbajosa gave up and went back to Spain.

The Raptors have lacked leadership for years. From the ownership, to the management, to the coaching all the way down to the players.


You didn't see them leading and rocking the boat all that much before that point. They took their cues from the coaching staff, they were careful to avoid showing emotion, and except when they played with each other you didn't usually see them asking for the ball or shouldering responsibilities to the extent that Tiago has at times.

How about guys like Marc Gasol, Luis Scola, Anderson Varejao, Danilo Gallinari, Nikola Pekovic? Their backgrounds are also similar to Tiago's. Granted, a few of them went to weak teams and had minutes available to them asap, but the point is that they were all able to carve an immediately niche. I thought that Tiago had such an opportunity against the Jazz with the big 3 out. IMO, given the circumstances, he was more passive than I would have liked to see.


I agree. On this team he really doesn't need to be and I think he admires Tim to the point where he's not going to be playing the politics until he's more acclimated to the NBA and even then he might not lead to a full extent. Just my opinion.

Politics in terms of building respectful relationships with the referees, not within the team (that would be risky :p:).


No. Tagging along with my parents. I'm only 20. :lol

Then how much could you've possibly seen or observe? I'm young too (25) so I don't mean to target your age but its hard to pick up on cultural habits in limited amount of time. I don't really buy the cultural difference being the reason why Tiago is passive. Leaders, especially the good ones, have a knack for it and do it spontaneously. So if Tiago already had strong leadership skills, they would be oozing out of him. He probably won't change much in 2 or 3 years but that's okay.

[skin]

I was talking about the two Utah games. One big was rested in each game. Diaw took the place of the missing big in each game allowing the other three bigs to remain in their normal rotation spots.


I understand your point, respect it but I disagree. Diaw is 6-8 (2.03). He can't play as 5 when you've got a skilled 6-11 (2.11) to play with.



Tiago is struggling with confidence issues?



Did you watch FIBA Americas Championship? I did manage to watch few games and I can tell you. Tiago was terrible. Awful. If you think harder you'll remember this Championship was a couple of months after his first year in the league.





How do you think players get calls from referee's on a consistent basis? IMO there are a few ways:

Tiago has none of these because he doesn't sell his flops and he never talks to the refs. Is anyone really surprised that he doesn't get calls?

That is partial on Splitter. He should be demanding the ball because he's clearly our best/most consistent offensive player in a half court setting. This is where I really think he needs to be more assertive. Also, I think his teammates respect his skills, but aren't good play makers themselves. Other than Stephen Jackson executing a pick and roll with Splitter, everyone else just took a bad shot and failed to move the ball.

Have you ever heard his interviews in Spanish or Portuguese? He sounds genuinely humble and shy. I don't think he's gonna sell his flops and talk to the refs unless someone talks to him and explain it. It should've been done by one of the big 3 but I do think Sjax may be this person.

Outside of the Big 3 the only teammate that seems aware of his PNR skills is Sjax.

For a shy person being assertive/agressive isn't easy at all. That's where he needs Pop pushing him to the limit as well as giving him confidence. I've got a theory which I know will make some people laugh at me but anyway, pay attention a couple of games before laughing. He is giving us 5.2 rebounds per game which isn't a great mark for a center at all. If he were more agressive/selfish he could've been giving us around 9 RPG. Maybe even more than that. How? Pay attention when he jumps for a defensive rebound. If there's a teammate disputing the same ball he won't contest it even though he's taller, stronger and that's his job. On the other hand top rebounders have no mercy on teammates. D12 runs over teammates. Love, Varejao and others do exactly the same.

[TheSkeptic]

Personally don't like any of the players you mentioned because I think they're all soft. Calderon gave up after he got his contract, Garbajosa gave up and went back to Spain.

The Raptors have lacked leadership for years. From the ownership, to the management, to the coaching all the way down to the players.



They're not tough like Oakley but you've got both of those situations wrong. Calderon's been playing pretty well lately he just tore his hammy after getting the contract.

Garbajosa didn't give up he broke his leg and then refused to not play for his national team. That in turn pissed off Colangelo and that's why he wasn't allowed back.

Agreed on the organization's leadership (that has been hard to watch). I'm just saying that those are examples of guys who started off passive and eventually grew into themselves.

The level of leadership you see from those guys is about what I'd be expecting from Tiago. Which granted, isn't what you'd be used to watching the Spurs, but it's not quite worth giving up over.




How about guys like Marc Gasol, Luis Scola, Anderson Varejao, Danilo Gallinari, Nikola Pekovic? Their backgrounds are also similar to Tiago's. Granted, a few of them went to weak teams and had minutes available to them asap, but the point is that they were all able to carve an immediately niche. I thought that Tiago had such an opportunity against the Jazz with the big 3 out. IMO, given the circumstances, he was more passive than I would have liked to see.


Great examples (can't believe I forgot Marc Gasol).
Thing is, they also went through similar things in that they had to get comfortable with the league, comfortable with their teammates, and feel like they were a part of the team before they started getting vocal. At that I still wouldn't consider a guy like Gallo to be a leader in the sense you're describing.





Politics in terms of building respectful relationships with the referees, not within the team (that would be risky :p:).

Gotcha.





Then how much could you've possibly seen or observe? I'm young too (25) so I don't mean to target your age but its hard to pick up on cultural habits in limited amount of time. I don't really buy the cultural difference being the reason why Tiago is passive. Leaders, especially the good ones, have a knack for it and do it spontaneously. So if Tiago already had strong leadership skills, they would be oozing out of him. He probably won't change much in 2 or 3 years but that's okay.

Part of it is just that I'm really quick at picking up patterns. I'm also mentally old for my age so I tend to just catch things that people aren't always able to see. The rest of it is through experience.

Quick summary:

I've lived in 3 different countries (2 continents), was born in sub-Saharan Africa, and have grown up interacting with Egyptians, Koreans, Chinese, Thais, people from the Philippines, East Indians, North Americans, South Americans, Brits, Germans, Australians, First Nations people, Africans from other countries, and people from like Trinidad and Jamaica on a regular basis. That's without taking the whole first generation - second generation issue into account and I have a lot of experience with that too.

Put simply, I've learned how to pick up on different cultures and blend in as much as possible. I've been doing it since grade school and it's easy for me to recognize when someone's still working to get comfortable.

That said, I'm not talking leadership in the Tim Duncan sense of the term. In that respect, definitely not.

But what you're talking about with just directing people, demanding the ball, showing teammates where to be, etc. That's all within range once Tiago gets more comfortable. At this point he's just not there yet and I don't know that he'll ever be while on this team unless he's explicitly given more responsibility.

He's definitely a quieter/more passive personality but he's competitive and he's a soldier. If the coach (or Duncan) tells him to be more assertive he'll do it. He just seems like a shy and non-confrontational individual.

I'd be giving up completely on it, but if you see him on the court with teammates he's more comfortable with he relaxes some and is fine asking for the ball and telling people what to do. See: Manu's cut or playing with Tony.

He's shown himself to be a guy that needs time to adjust to things and I'm not sure why that wouldn't apply to dealing with officials and the sorting out more of the nuances associated with his teammates and playing in the NBA. This is essentially his rookie season and I don't think he looks fully settled in although he's definitely better than last time. I'll say it again: your expectations were too high.

Whoops: Pay special attention to what Skin is saying.

[angelbelow]

Have you ever heard his interviews in Spanish or Portuguese? He sounds genuinely humble and shy. I don't think he's gonna sell his flops and talk to the refs unless someone talks to him and explain it. It should've been done by one of the big 3 but I do think Sjax may be this person.

No I haven't. But I don't get the impression that hes shy from his recent interviews. And those are done in English, which is a 2nd or 3rd language of his too, therefore I would imagine that he would seem shy or nervous. But I didn't get that at from him. Somethings to watch for in interviews: eye contract with the interviewer, using your body language to acknowledge the question, pausing before answering the question, keeping answers short/concise and to the point, smiling and joking are great ways to evaluate an interviewee's confidence. Tiago does the majority of those things well. So, I've never gotten the impression that he wasn't confident - just that hes content to be passive on court.


Outside of the Big 3 the only teammate that seems aware of his PNR skills is Sjax.

Neal is improving but still misses him quite a few times. TJ Ford was pretty beastly too; showed off some beautiful pick and rolls with Tiago.


For a shy person being assertive/agressive isn't easy at all. That's where he needs Pop pushing him to the limit as well as giving him confidence. I've got a theory which I know will make some people laugh at me but anyway, pay attention a couple of games before laughing. He is giving us 5.2 rebounds per game which isn't a great mark for a center at all. If he were more agressive/selfish he could've been giving us around 9 RPG. Maybe even more than that. How? Pay attention when he jumps for a defensive rebound. If there's a teammate disputing the same ball he won't contest it even though he's taller, stronger and that's his job. On the other hand top rebounders have no mercy on teammates. D12 runs over teammates. Love, Varejao and others do exactly the same.

I don't have any complaints about his rebounding. He's much tougher on the boards than I expected tbh. Statistically hes the 2nd best rebounder on the team, and I do believe the games reflect that when I watch him. He's certainly not a ferocious rebounder but I like what I see from him.

[TheSkeptic]

No I haven't. But I don't get the impression that hes shy from his recent interviews. And those are done in English, which is a 2nd or 3rd language of his too, therefore I would imagine that he would seem shy or nervous. But I didn't get that at from him. Somethings to watch for in interviews: eye contract with the interviewer, using your body language to acknowledge the question, pausing before answering the question, keeping answers short/concise and to the point, smiling and joking are great ways to evaluate an interviewee's confidence. Tiago does the majority of those things well. So, I've never gotten the impression that he wasn't confident - just that hes content to be passive on court.


Oh. That explains everything then.

[angelbelow]

For the record, my expectations for him are definitely high. Same for Duncan, Parker and especially Manu because hes my favorite player. Same, with the front office. Part of the reason why the Spurs are my favorite is because of the effectiveness of their management (incase you haven't noticed.. I'm high on leadership haha). If my expectations were low then I probably wouldn't care enough to watch and post.


They're not tough like Oakley but you've got both of those situations wrong. Calderon's been playing pretty well lately he just tore his hammy after getting the contract.

Garbajosa didn't give up he broke his leg and then refused to not play for his national team. That in turn pissed off Colangelo and that's why he wasn't allowed back.

The level of leadership you see from those guys is about what I'd be expecting from Tiago. Which granted, isn't what you'd be used to watching the Spurs, but it's not quite worth giving up over.

I'm not going to look up Calderon and Garbajosa so I will take you word for it and stand corrected.

I'm not giving up on Splitter's leadership potential BUT, I'm not optimistic about him blossoming into an influential figure either.


Great examples (can't believe I forgot Marc Gasol).
Thing is, they also went through similar things in that they had to get comfortable with the league, comfortable with their teammates, and feel like they were a part of the team before they started getting vocal. At that I still wouldn't consider a guy like Gallo to be a leader in the sense you're describing.

True, I'm not sure where Gallo stands from a leadership perspective. But I can see that his team misses him when hes not there, that he makes no effort to hide what he brings to the table and doesn't shy away crunch time basketball.


Part of it is just that I'm really quick at picking up patterns. I'm also mentally old for my age so I tend to just catch things that people aren't always able to see. The rest of it is through experience.

Quick summary:

I've lived in 3 different countries (2 continents), was born in sub-Saharan Africa, and have grown up interacting with Egyptians, Koreans, Chinese, Thais, people from the Philippines, East Indians, North Americans, South Americans, Brits, Germans, Australians, First Nations people, Africans from other countries, and people from like Trinidad and Jamaica on a regular basis. That's without taking the whole first generation - second generation issue into account and I have a lot of experience with that too.

Put simply, I've learned how to pick up on different cultures and blend in as much as possible. I've been doing it since grade school and it's easy for me to recognize when someone's still working to get comfortable.

Interesting. I don't have anywhere close to the experience that you have. Born in California and I don't really travel lol. Been to Taiwan a few times w. family and been to a few countries for vacation but that's it. Was in a multicultural fraternity in college but they were all "Americanized." But I get why being comfortable with your new surroundings are important. However, I don't think it makes much of a difference when it comes to spotting skill or personality on the basketball court. That's why I don't think Tiago is going to change much.


That said, I'm not talking leadership in the Tim Duncan sense of the term. In that respect, definitely not.

But what you're talking about with just directing people, demanding the ball, showing teammates where to be, etc. That's all within range once Tiago gets more comfortable. At this point he's just not there yet and I don't know that he'll ever be while on this team unless he's explicitly given more responsibility.

Duncan is a great leader because he leads by example. he's not the most talkative but he has hall of fame work ethic, is a fantastic teammate, and leaves everything out on the court. I don't expect Splitter to reach that level either.. very few can.

To my point, if he was a motivated leader, he wouldn't wait for more responsibility.. he would be actively pushing the envelop whenever hes on the basketball court.

[TJastal]

Yeah, early on we saw units centered around Splitter, Bonner, and Green that were extremely effective. Not so much since Danny moved to the SL. It's something to look forward to when Pop inevitably moves Manu back to the SL.

inevitably lol

[TheSkeptic]

For the record, my expectations for him are definitely high. Same for Duncan, Parker and especially Manu because hes my favorite player. Same, with the front office. Part of the reason why the Spurs are my favorite is because of the effectiveness of their management (incase you haven't noticed.. I'm high on leadership haha). If my expectations were low then I probably wouldn't care enough to watch and post.


I'm not going to look up Calderon and Garbajosa so I will take you word for it and stand corrected.

I'm not giving up on Splitter's leadership potential BUT, I'm not optimistic about him blossoming into an influential figure either.


True, I'm not sure where Gallo stands from a leadership perspective. But I can see that his team misses him when hes not there, that he makes no effort to hide what he brings to the table and doesn't shy away crunch time basketball.


Interesting. I don't have anywhere close to the experience that you have. Born in California and I don't really travel lol. Been to Taiwan a few times w. family and been to a few countries for vacation but that's it. Was in a multicultural fraternity in college but they were all "Americanized." But I get why being comfortable with your new surroundings are important. However, I don't think it makes much of a difference when it comes to spotting skill or personality on the basketball court. That's why I don't think Tiago is going to change much.


Duncan is a great leader because he leads by example. he's not the most talkative but he has hall of fame work ethic, is a fantastic teammate, and leaves everything out on the court. I don't expect Splitter to reach that level either.. very few can.

To my point, if he was a motivated leader, he wouldn't wait for more responsibility.. he would be actively pushing the envelop whenever hes on the basketball court.

Then we're pretty much on the same page except you have much much higher expectations (Hey, I'd be thrilled if Splitter could pull it off).

While I would agree with your vision of leadership, I'm not convinced that's the only way it comes through. Some guys do come in and push the envelop right away. Others need time to adjust before showing their personalities.

Splitter seems less confrontational in general and looks like he's still proving himself and working toward earning his minutes. I wouldn't expect him to be taking charge under those circumstances.

He looked way more confident to me in Europe and if that can translate some I think he'd be okay leadership-wise. You just don't pick up his credentials without being a leader to some extent.

Even in San Antonio we've seen glimpses of how he relates to people on the court when he's comfortable with them. He doesn't back down from opponents and he's being more expressive I think than last year so it's not like he's not making progress.

If he would start demanding the ball and being more assertive I'd be happier but I don't expect that to happen consistently until next year. Overall I'd say he's about where he should be. A little ahead even.

He's just been mismanaged these last couple of seasons and I think it's too late to get that next level out of him this year. Hopefully the frontcourt can hold on in the playoffs and Tiago can build some more confidence playing for Brazil.

I guess what I'm thinking is that he has leadership potential but that he's not going to reach it here and that's okay with me.



For the sake of my sanity though, I'm beginning to think they should trade him. :/

[angelbelow]

While I would agree with your vision of leadership, I'm not convinced that's the only way it comes through. Some guys do come in and push the envelop right away. Others need time to adjust before showing their personalities.

Splitter seems less confrontational in general and looks like he's still proving himself and working toward earning his minutes. I wouldn't expect him to be taking charge under those circumstances.

He doesn't necessarily need to be confrontational. Plenty way to go about getting to the refs or the opponent. Duncan has his "omfg you didn't just call that foul on me" or his "I never touched him I swear!" death stare everytime he gets whistled. Manu gets under his opponents skin by irritating the crap out of them. Tony has his go to "chat with the officials in a calm manner and explain to them that they fucked up."


I guess what I'm thinking is that he has leadership potential but that he's not going to reach it here and that's okay with me.

For the sake of my sanity though, I'm beginning to think they should trade him. :/

Trading him would be stupid, I hope it doesn't come to that. But if I were Tiago and/or his agent, I might explore that option if only plays 20 minutes a night again.

[TheSkeptic]

He doesn't necessarily need to be confrontational. Plenty way to go about getting to the refs or the opponent. Duncan has his "omfg you didn't just call that foul on me" or his "I never touched him I swear!" death stare everytime he gets whistled. Manu gets under his opponents skin by irritating the crap out of them. Tony has his go to "chat with the officials in a calm manner and explain to them that they fucked up."


:lol

I see what you're saying here. And I agree. I think the officiating issue is a combination of the rookie treatment and ignorance though.

When it comes to the refs, Pop or Manu or someone is going to have to tell him that he needs to go up and let them know he's being fouled. They suck and they won't catch it otherwise.

But also, how is his English? In the interviews I've seen he didn't sound too bad but that could be another reason why he's not going up to them.



Trading him would be stupid, I hope it doesn't come to that. But if I were Tiago and/or his agent, I might explore that option if only plays 20 minutes a night again.

I know basketball-wise it's a bad idea but the fact that he's this good while just scratching the surface yet is playing 20/night behind Bonner and Blair is excruciating. At least before he was here I could console myself with the fact that there weren't any other bigs and that we'd played our best options...

Yeah actually. He could probably be getting more minutes and money elsewhere. Unless he goes to Houston and becomes an all-star or something I won't even be upset if he decides to do the right thing for his career. :depressed

[therealtruth]

I know basketball-wise it's a bad idea but the fact that he's this good while just scratching the surface yet is playing 20/night behind Bonner and Blair is excruciating. At least before he was here I could console myself with the fact that there weren't any other bigs and that we'd played our best options...

Yeah actually. He could probably be getting more minutes and money elsewhere. Unless he goes to Houston and becomes an all-star or something I won't even be upset if he decides to do the right thing for his career. :depressed

I agree. It's frustrating seeing how slowly Pop is bring Splitter along. From day 1 last year the starting spot would have been his to lose on most teams just because he was more talented than what was available. But Pop will try everyone else on the roster at PF before he tries Splitter. It almost seems like Pop has something against him personally.

[TJastal]

I agree. It's frustrating seeing how slowly Pop is bring Splitter along. From day 1 last year the starting spot would have been his to lose on most teams just because he was more talented than what was available. But Pop will try everyone else on the roster at PF before he tries Splitter. It almost seems like Pop has something against him personally.

Judging by own level of frustration I can only imagine Tiago's frustration level must be hitting the roof since signing with the spurs. It's his 2nd year in the league, he's in his prime and yet labors and toils for table scraps behind the turd towers for the most part. Rarely does he get to play with the starters or any meaningful minutes. New acquisitions to the team are quickly ushered into the starting lineup and given significant roles (Diaw). Nobody even bats an eye anymore. It's SOP (standard operating procedure).

Yet despite all this we still have to put up with screeching vaginas on spurstalk whining and bitching that he isn't stepping into a leadership role on the team. It's enough to drive one close to the loony bin. I bet if someone sat down and explained to Tiago what his so called fans are saying about him he'd give that same face in the avatar picture of chatospursfan. :rollin

[Slippy]

Neal's grade is shocking to say the least. I agree on most of timvp's grades, even the fail Manu got last week but this ones needs more explaining.

The only thing Neal was ochestrating was shots for himself. On one sequence, i remember Neal taking 3 shots in a row from offensives and then finally, Pop chews into him. Even a make-shift PG should have enough sense to pull it back after missing the first two and run a play for your teammates.