Out-of-wedlock pregnancy costs Texas teacher her job

[George Gervin's Afro]

Science teacher and volleyball coach Cathy Samford has been fired by a private school in Rockwall, WFAA-TV is reporting.

“I looked it up and thought, ‘They can’t do this,’ ” Samford told the Dallas station of the action by Heritage Christian Academy, where she’d coached almost three years and recently began teaching science.

When she got pregnant, the school fired her because she wasn’t married, WFAA says. The school says it has the right to do that.

Since the academy is a private, religious campus, its headmaster, Dr. Ron Taylor, told the station it can impose standards of conduct.

“The Supreme Court … has ruled 9-to-0 that a Christian school does have that right, because this is a ministry,” WFAA quotes Taylor as saying.


Now this is what I don't get for those who want to make people have kids against their will. I must say that I am not pro-abortion rather I am pre-do-whatever-you-have-to-do-to-not-get- pregnant.

The pro-lifers want all babies to be born ..yet we have a pro-life insitution punishing this woman for doing what they want. it's ironic that she could have chosen to have an abortion and would have been able to keep her job yet she chose against it and lost her job.

[DarrinS]

Now this is what I don't get for those who want to make people have kids against their will.

lol

[coyotes_geek]

Dumb thread. Stupid premise.

[vy65]

I think the point was that she should have had the kid and gotten married.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Dumb thread. Stupid premise.

what part of the premise.. the part where a pro-life institution is punishing her for keeping the baby..or the part where if she would have had an abortion she could have kept her job.. I know it's impossible to defend so I would walk away as well..:lmao

[z0sa]

link?

[vy65]

what part of the premise.. the part where a pro-life institution is punishing her for keeping the baby..or the part where if she would have had an abortion she could have kept her job.. I know it's impossible to defend so I would walk away as well..:lmao

They're punishing her for having a baby out of wedlock. Your dichotomy of have baby/kill baby ignores the key issue -- she wasn't married.

[coyotes_geek]

what part of the premise.. the part where a pro-life institution is punishing her for keeping the baby..or the part where if she would have had an abortion she could have kept her job.. I know it's impossible to defend so I would walk away as well..:lmao

If the school found out she had an abortion they'd fire her for that too. The school has a code of conduct, she willingly agreed to it, she got fired for violating it. End of story.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They're punishing her for having a baby out of wedlock. Your dichotomy of have baby/kill baby ignores the key issue -- she wasn't married.

You can be so reasonable until you start going Catholic.

[vy65]

You can be so reasonable until you start going Catholic.

?

I was explaining the likely rationale -- I don't give two shits about this story one way or another.

[TeyshaBlue]

A swing and a miss, GGA.

[CosmicCowboy]

Amazingly enough I'll agree with GGA on this one.

It might be legal but it's dumb. She could have gotten an abortion and they would have never known it. She keeps the baby and gets fired. I get the irony he was pointing out.

[Wild Cobra]

Isn't there already a thread on this topic?

They have such a right. People who put their kids in Christian schools do so for the values. Bringing in a bastard child is an assault on those values for a role model to portray.

Just that simple.

[ChumpDumper]

What if a student is found to be a bastard?

Should he be expelled?

[Drachen]

Isn't there already a thread on this topic?

They have such a right. People who put their kids in Christian schools do so for the values. Bringing in a bastard child is an assault on those values for a role model to portray.

Just that simple.

or the academic rigor.

[Wild Cobra]

What if a student is found to be a bastard?

Should he be expelled?

Is a student a role model like a teacher is?

I didn't know that was a standard of yours.

[CosmicCowboy]

or the academic rigor.

Bingo

I sent my kids to a private school for the education, not the values.

[ChumpDumper]

Is a student a role model like a teacher is?

I didn't know that was a standard of yours.It's rewarding illegitimacy.

Why can't that standard extend to the families in the ministry?

[Wild Cobra]

or the academic rigor.
Yes, it's both. The values are a large part of it for enough people that it cannot be ignored.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, it's both. The values are a large part of it for enough people that it cannot be ignored.According to you, it can be quite easily ignored.

[cantthinkofanything]

It's rewarding illegitimacy.

Why can't that standard extend to the families in the ministry?

Teachers don't pay tuition.

[leemajors]

What if a student is found to be a bastard?

Should he be expelled?

I think we need to go back to prefixing bastard's last names with Fitz, just so they are known.

[ChumpDumper]

I think we need to go back to prefixing bastard's last names with Fitz, just so they are known.A scarlet B could work as well.

[CosmicCowboy]

Personally I like naming them all Snow.

[Drachen]

Personally I like naming them all Snow.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__UCV9OKYU0s/TBpf8wDFQMI/AAAAAAAASN0/jxEtd4Ne-Zk/s1600/Snow+-+Informer+(00-03-57.321).jpg?

[Blake]

What if a student is found to be a bastard?

Should he be expelled?

aborted!

[CosmicCowboy]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__UCV9OKYU0s/TBpf8wDFQMI/AAAAAAAASN0/jxEtd4Ne-Zk/s1600/Snow+-+Informer+(00-03-57.321).jpg?

Guess you don't watch Game of Thrones.

[coyotes_geek]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__UCV9OKYU0s/TBpf8wDFQMI/AAAAAAAASN0/jxEtd4Ne-Zk/s1600/Snow+-+Informer+(00-03-57.321).jpg?

http://image10.webshots.com/11/2/0/25/139820025nBOcrV_ph.jpg

[leemajors]

Personally I like naming them all Snow.

That's just for northern bastards tbh.

[Drachen]

Guess you don't watch Game of Thrones.

Guess you didn't pay attention to early 90's White Canadian Jamaican-sounding rappers.

[Drachen]

http://image10.webshots.com/11/2/0/25/139820025nbocrv_ph.jpg

lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Guess you didn't pay attention to early 90's White Canadian Jamaican-sounding rappers.

Ya got that gol darn tootin right! :lol

[Drachen]

Ya got that gol darn tootin right! :lol

:lol

[Blake]

Ya got that gol darn tootin right! :lol

Sounds like you paid attention to country singers and family TV shows from the late '50s

[TheSkeptic]

It's rewarding illegitimacy.

Why can't that standard extend to the families in the ministry?

It does. Or at least it's supposed to.

Not that I agree with what this school is doing. Having gone to a school like this, I know how horrible those places are.

That said, there's a code of conduct and if she was in violation of that then they're within their rights to fire her.

[ploto]

Bingo

I sent my kids to a private school for the education, not the values.

But you did so knowing the religious values that would be taught there, and you agreed to that (assuming it was a religious private school).

[Drachen]

Bingo

I sent my kids to a private school for the education, not the values.

Same here.


But you did so knowing the religious values that would be taught there, and you agreed to that (assuming it was a religious private school).

I don't think CC or I would argue against the values being taught there, we are just saying that the reasoning for doing so isn't as homogeneous as WC made them out to be.

I can't speak for CC, but I would have sent my daughter there with or without the religion class (especially as I am an atheist).

[ploto]

This is a really small Christian school that has less than 300 students combined in its K3-12th grade.

Given their clear mission and statement of beliefs, I find it pretty hard to buy that she had no clue they would have a problem with her being pregnant and unmarried.

MISSION

Heritage Christian Academy is an independent, multi-denominational, biblically based Christian school. Heritage desires to work in partnership with families from across the spectrum of the body of Christ to produce a distinctively Christian, college preparatory environment. We believe that the opportunity to see Christ-centered young people who are well prepared spiritually, academically, socially, emotionally, and physically become leaders in a secular world is the legacy and heritage this school wishes to impart.


Statement of Faith

We believe in the verbal inspiration of both the Old and New Testaments, i.e., that the very words of the original Scriptures are infallible and inerrant and that they are our final and absolute authority in every area of life and knowledge.

We believe in one God, eternally existing in three coequal persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and that He is both undiminished deity and genuine humanity in one person forever.

We believe that God the Holy Spirit is a personal being who convicts the world of sin and who regenerates, indwells, empowers, guides, and bestows spiritual gifts on believers, and who seals them eternally for God.

We believe that man was created by a direct act of God in His image, not from previously existing life, that all men sinned in Adam (the historical father of the entire human race) and thus incurred both physical and spiritual death; and that all men have inherited sinful nature.

We believe that Jesus Christ died as a substitutionary sacrifice for our sins and that through faith in Him as Lord and Savior, we are declared righteous by God.

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, totally apart from human merit, and that the experience of regeneration produces a new creature in Christ, eternally secure.

We believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that He ascended into heaven, where He continually ministers as our great High Priest and Advocate.

We believe that this age will be consummated by the literal, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ to this earth.

We believe in the resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the everlasting punishment of the lost.

We believe that all believers are under the mandate of Jesus Christ to proclaim the Gospel to the world.

http://www.heritagechristianacademy.org/aboutus.html

[CosmicCowboy]

Same here.



I don't think CC or I would argue against the values being taught there, we are just saying that the reasoning for doing so isn't as homogeneous as WC made them out to be.

I can't speak for CC, but I would have sent my daughter there with or without the religion class (especially as I am an atheist).

:toast

although I'm not an atheist, i'm more in the intelligent design camp, but my own version of it.

[Drachen]

ploto, I don't think that anyone was arguing that the school didn't have the right to fire her (just fyi). OP was attempting to make christian schools out to be hypocrites. They might be, but OP made a poor case as far as this situation was concerned.

[ploto]

I don't think CC or I would argue against the values being taught there, we are just saying that the reasoning for doing so isn't as homogeneous as WC made them out to be.

I can't speak for CC, but I would have sent my daughter there with or without the religion class (especially as I am an atheist).

My point is that you know that by sending your daughter there (I think it is a Catholic school) that she will be taught Catholicism and have to go to Mass... You can't complain that your daughter is being taught religious views against what you believe when you choose to send her there knowing what comes with it.

The teacher knew what came with working there.

[ElNono]

This is a really small Christian school that has less than 300 students combined in its K3-12th grade.

Given their clear mission and statement of beliefs, I find it pretty hard to buy that she had no clue they would have a problem with her being pregnant and unmarried.

MISSION

Heritage Christian Academy is an independent, multi-denominational, biblically based Christian school. Heritage desires to work in partnership with families from across the spectrum of the body of Christ to produce a distinctively Christian, college preparatory environment. We believe that the opportunity to see Christ-centered young people who are well prepared spiritually, academically, socially, emotionally, and physically become leaders in a secular world is the legacy and heritage this school wishes to impart.


Statement of Faith

We believe in the verbal inspiration of both the Old and New Testaments, i.e., that the very words of the original Scriptures are infallible and inerrant and that they are our final and absolute authority in every area of life and knowledge.

We believe in one God, eternally existing in three coequal persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and that He is both undiminished deity and genuine humanity in one person forever.

We believe that God the Holy Spirit is a personal being who convicts the world of sin and who regenerates, indwells, empowers, guides, and bestows spiritual gifts on believers, and who seals them eternally for God.

We believe that man was created by a direct act of God in His image, not from previously existing life, that all men sinned in Adam (the historical father of the entire human race) and thus incurred both physical and spiritual death; and that all men have inherited sinful nature.

We believe that Jesus Christ died as a substitutionary sacrifice for our sins and that through faith in Him as Lord and Savior, we are declared righteous by God.

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, totally apart from human merit, and that the experience of regeneration produces a new creature in Christ, eternally secure.

We believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that He ascended into heaven, where He continually ministers as our great High Priest and Advocate.

We believe that this age will be consummated by the literal, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ to this earth.

We believe in the resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the everlasting punishment of the lost.

We believe that all believers are under the mandate of Jesus Christ to proclaim the Gospel to the world.

http://www.heritagechristianacademy.org/aboutus.html

Where in all that banter one would deduce such a thing?

[Blake]

We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and that He is both undiminished deity and genuine humanity in one person forever.

So this school would have fired Mary too?

[CosmicCowboy]

So this school would have fired Mary too?

As much as you disgust me normally, that was funny...:lol

[resistanze]

So this school would have fired Mary too?

:lol

[Nbadan]

The bigger issue here, of course, is that private schools are mostly unregulated....it's part of what some parents like about them...no federal oversite....they are not held to the same standards as public schools..

[TheSkeptic]

The bigger issue here, of course, is that private schools are mostly unregulated....it's part of what some parents like about them...no federal oversite....they are not held to the same standards as public schools..

In terms of academics they're usually better though.

[Nbadan]

Usually, but not always....and , unlike public schools, they can exclude or expel anyone they wish...

[Drachen]

Why is this a problem?

[redzero]

:lol marriage

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In terms of academics they're usually better though.

Not some of the Baptist schools I have seen. I think that is more a product of affluent families over curriculum in some cases. I have tutored kids from Cornerstone Academy and it was some of the most simplistic dumbed down shit that I have ever seen.

Don't private schools have to meet some accreditation standards?

[Nbadan]

Don't private schools have to meet some accreditation standards?

No...

[Nbadan]

Why is this a problem?

It's not if you are part of the 'privileged few' who can afford to send their kids to a good private school...but comparing public schools to better private schools is like comparing apples to oranges...let's be honest here...

[Drachen]

I dont think anyone here is talking about the northeastern 30k per year prep schools.

[Nbadan]

We have plenty of prep schools in San Antonio...they cherrypick the best students from public schools...everyone else? SOL

[SnakeBoy]

In the full story it says she was engaged and this wouldn't have been an issue except the wedding got delayed. The couple offered to move up the wedding but the schoolmaster said tough shit.

Judging from the pretty extreme beliefs of this school, I wouldn't be suprised if this had more to do with her blasphemous "science" teaching than it did with her being pregnant.

[Nbadan]

From prep schools to Liberty university...just like the gestapo did it...

[Drachen]

We have plenty of prep schools in San Antonio...they cherrypick the best students from public schools...everyone else? SOL

cherry pick?

[Drachen]

Oh and I am middle class (the lower part of it).

[Nbadan]

cherry pick?

They get to pick their students and exclude whomever they want by claiming they do not have the ability to teach special needs kids...

[Nbadan]

Oh and I am middle class (the lower part of it).

Good for you. Good for you that you also place a high value to a good education too...you pay a premium for that but you think it's a good investment in your child...but I also think that if your child has his/her head on straight and really works hard they can be every bit as successful in a good public school..

[Blake]

The biggest difference in private and public schools is the classroom environment, imo.

Smaller classes and less tolerance for bad behavior.

[Nbadan]

Smaller classes and less tolerance for bad behavior.

They have the ability to expel kids much quicker....public schools must document bad behavior and ALSO what accommodations they have attempted to help the child correct his behavior before the child ever gets an expulsion hearing...

[Trainwreck2100]

The biggest difference in private and public schools is the classroom environment, imo.

Smaller classes and less tolerance for bad behavior.

also the parents pay for it so they mostly give a shit about how their kids are doing

[TheSkeptic]

Not some of the Baptist schools I have seen. I think that is more a product of affluent families over curriculum in some cases. I have tutored kids from Cornerstone Academy and it was some of the most simplistic dumbed down shit that I have ever seen.

Don't private schools have to meet some accreditation standards?

Interesting. I attended an evangelical one when I was going and academically it was mostly a step up from the public schools and there was another Christian high school in my city that was *so* good that people had to apply while their kids were like in grade school.

I assumed it was something similar going on here.

In any case, I disagree with the rule the school has but I support their right to boot the teacher out.

If she wanted to break the code of conduct (that she knew about) and have sex that badly she should've just used birth control or had a civil ceremony ahead of time and held the "traditional wedding" after. This just looks like she was being short-sighted and is now crying "foul" since she lost her job over it.

Zero sympathy from me.

[Wild Cobra]

ploto, I don't think that anyone was arguing that the school didn't have the right to fire her (just fyi). OP was attempting to make christian schools out to be hypocrites. They might be, but OP made a poor case as far as this situation was concerned.
Very poor case. How can the teacher think it wrong for them to say "Bye bye..."

[Drachen]

Very poor case. How can the teacher think it wrong for them to say "Bye bye..."

That wasn't the case that the op made. No one made that case.

[jack sommerset]

These ethic firings happen all the time. That coach from Arkansas was let go for morals as a couple of days. It's there business, they want a certain role model, educator and she didn't fit the bill any longer. I'm sure she will have no problem getting a job in the near future. God bless.

[CosmicCowboy]

The biggest difference in private and public schools is the classroom environment, imo.

Smaller classes and less tolerance for bad behavior.

No, the biggest difference is parental involvement with the child and the school. The kids wouldn't be there if the parents didn't give a shit. If they have a disfunctional kid disrupting class they can suggest to the parents they either deal with it or take the kid somewhere else.

IMHO private schools are better than public schools only up to a certain point. They are great for the basics and instilling good work/study habits early.

I pulled my kids out after the 8th grade and sent them to public high school. The private schools simply can't offer the diverse curriculum that public schools can and I also believe that the kids that go all the way K-12 in private schools end up a little socially stunted.

[Blake]

No, the biggest difference is parental involvement with the child and the school. The kids wouldn't be there if the parents didn't give a shit.

There are plenty of uninvolved rich parents that send their kids to private schools, plenty of involved poor parents that send their kids to public schools.

Public schools complain frequently about classrooms that are overcrowded. I've never heard of any private school anywhere in America complain of overcrowding.


If they have a disfunctional kid disrupting class they can suggest to the parents they either deal with it or take the kid somewhere else.

Which directly affects classroom environment.

[CosmicCowboy]

There are plenty of uninvolved rich parents that send their kids to private schools, plenty of involved poor parents that send their kids to public schools.

Public schools complain frequently about classrooms that are overcrowded. I've never heard of any private school anywhere in America complain of overcrowding.



And you are responding from stereotypes and cliches you saw on television and I'm responding from actual experience as a parent with children in a private school.

The classroom sizes were the same or even larger than public schools but they weren't forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. If a child couldn't keep up with the program they were encouraged to seek outside tutoring...they didn't slow the class down to accommodate the weakest link...

At any parent teacher event (which was frequent) there was virtually 100% parental participation. This is unheard in a public school situation. I've been in both.

[Blake]

And you are responding from stereotypes and cliches you saw on television and I'm responding from actual experience as a parent with children in a private school.

The classroom sizes were the same or even larger than public schools but they weren't forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. If a child couldn't keep up with the program they were encouraged to seek outside tutoring...they didn't slow the class down to accommodate the weakest link...

At any parent teacher event (which was frequent) there was virtually 100% parental participation. This is unheard in a public school situation. I've been in both.

I've formed my opinion based on personal experience as well.

You've formed your assumptions about me based on butthurt.

[Drachen]

They get to pick their students and exclude whomever they want by claiming they do not have the ability to teach special needs kids...

That is why private schools are able to charge so much less per student than public schools need. Also there are private schools which cater specifically to those with special needs. Those are expensive. I know this because my step daughter has special needs (which incidentally got her kicked out of a private school when she was younger since they weren't set up to help her). Two years ago we checked into a few of those for her and the cost was in the 15-17k per year range (could not afford). My daughter's (relatively expensive for san antonio) private school tuition is in the 5k range (the one that I went to until 4th grade in converse is now about 2500 for comparison's sake). I read (I think from an article posted here) that the average amount of money spent per public school student in texas is 11k, so even though they have to teach special needs kids, they are getting the funds to do so.

[Wild Cobra]

Why do you guys want to argue private schools should cater to the lowest common denominator like public schools do?

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you guys want to argue private schools should cater to the lowest common denominator like public schools do?I think it's more an explanation of the differences in responsibility between public and private schools. The private schools' selectivity alone makes positive outcomes more likely for their students.

[Nbadan]

I think it's more an explanation of the differences in responsibility between public and private schools. The private schools' selectivity alone makes positive outcomes more likely for their students.

Fundamentally, that's why private school won't work universally. When they lose that selectivity advantage they would be in the same sad shape as most public schools...