Pele: Neymar better than Messi

[Landon Donofag]

SAO PAULO -- Pele says Lionel Messi isn't the best player in the world today -- much less of all time.


Pele said Wednesday that young Brazilian striker Neymar is better than the Argentina forward, and reiterated that he doesn't think Messi belongs in the conversation about who is the best player ever.

That debate has long centered around Pele and Diego Maradona, but many have started including Messi after a series of outstanding performances with Barcelona.

Pele, however, said at an event celebrating the centennial of Neymar's club Santos that "there's always this Maradona comparison, saying that he's better than Pele. Now some are saying that Messi is better than Pele. Well, he has to be better than Neymar first, which he isn't yet. He has more experience."

The 20-year-old Neymar is seen as Brazil's greatest player at the moment.
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/story/_/id/7800924/pele-says-lionel-messi-not-good-brazil-neymar

bitter :lol

[Venti Quattro]

DAF, get your ass in here!

[ElNono]

:lol this made it to SportsCenter
:lol Pele
:lol Neymar

[Bynumite]

Pele high as a motherfucker :lmao

Also feeling threatened.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol counting every goal since you were born
:lol comparing GOD to neymar
:lol insecure talkative bitch

[Bynumite]

Seriously, Neymar is not even that good and he's playing in a scrub league compared to the top euro leagues. Brazillian defenses give him the red carpet treatment all the way to the net. A poor man's Di Maria tbh.

Until he takes his talents to south beach, any comparison to Messi or even Ronaldo is a no-no.

[Jodelo]

Pele is a joke and DAF explosion in 3, 2, 1...

[resistanze]

This is a pretty transparent troll job by Pele.

I mean, he's proven to be a fucking idiot in general, but still.

[DAF86]

Pele is a joke and DAF explosion in 3, 2, 1...

This stroy is like 2 months old and I don't pay attention to what Pele says, tbh.

[diego]

This stroy is like 2 months old and I don't pay attention to what Pele says, tbh.

im the first to say fuck pele, but this is pretty funny, since you love to use stats and age to prop messi (pele's stats at his age are probably the only one "better" than messi) and you love to quote other players who say messi is better (if they said it it must be true :cry)

either pele reads ST and is directly fucking with you, or he's an idiot... Yeah, he's been an idiot since well before ST existed

[DAF86]

im the first to say fuck pele, but this is pretty funny, since you love to use stats and age to prop messi (pele's stats at his age are probably the only one "better" than messi) and you love to quote other players who say messi is better (if they said it it must be true :cry)

either pele reads ST and is directly fucking with you, or he's an idiot... Yeah, he's been an idiot since well before ST existed

I post other people's opinion (specially those of imparcial ones) to counter the argument that only Messi's homers can think he is in the GOAT debate.

the opinion of millions of people > the opinion of a bitter old man that had his sexual debut with a teammate

[Brazil]

I post other people's opinion (specially those of imparcial ones) to counter the argument that only Messi's homers can think he is in the GOAT debate.

the opinion of millions of people > the opinion of a bitter old man that had his sexual debut with a teammate

:lol

[DAF86]

Do you think guys like Rooney or Owen are parcial?

[DAF86]

I wasn't going to post this because I don't know if it's true or not and because I can't provide a link because I got it from "El Grafico" (an Argie sports magazine, so you should take that in consideration, although it has the reputation of making serious/professional journalism and I don't think they would make up something like this)

Well, the thing is that this magazine decided to make a historic revision of the greatest goalscorers of all-time and came up with the interesting fact that only 757 of the suppossed 1284 goals that Pele scored are official.

Among the 527 goals that Pele counts there are 446 in Santos friendlies and trainings, 26 in Cosmos friendlies, 9 with a Sao Paulo all-star team, 6 with a team that combined Santos and Vasco da Gama players, 18 in Brazil's exhibitions, 3 for the "Sao Paulo's athletes union", 5 in "benefit matches" and 14 for the Army of Brazil (WTF :lol)

[DAF86]

"El Grafico" all-time scorers list.

1. Romario (Brasil, 1985/2007) - 768 goles.
2. Josef Bican (Checoslovaquia, 1928/1956) - 759 goles.
3. Pelé (Brasil, 1956/1979) - 757 goles.
4. Ferenc Puskas (Hungría, 1943/1966) - 709 goles.
5. Gerd Müller (Alemania, 1964/1981) - 680 goles.
6. Eusebio (Portugal, 1957/1979) - 625 goles.
7. Ferenc Deak (Hungría, 1940/1954) - 576 goles.
8. Uwe Seeler (Alemania, 1953/1972) - 568 goles.
9. Túlio (Brasil, 1988/2012) - 538 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
10. Zico (Brasil, 1971/1994) - 516 goles.
11. Alfredo Di Stéfano (Argentina, 1945/1966) - 500 goles.
24. Raúl (España, 1994/2012) - 434 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
26. Carlos Bianchi (Argentina, 1967/1985) - 425 goles.
27. Ronaldo (Brasil, 1993/2011) - 423 goles.
41. Aleksandar Duric (Boznia Herzegovina, 1992/2012) - 395 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
46. Thierry Henry (Francia, 1994/2012) - 382 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
47. Andriy Shevchenko (Ucrania, 1994/2012) - 381 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
48. Ruud Van Nistelrooy (Holanda, 1993/2012) - 379 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
55. Rivaldo (Brasil, 1991/2012) - 367 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
68. Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina, 1988/2005) - 355 goles.
71. Diego Maradona (Argentina, 1976/1997) - 354 goles.
73. Michel Platini (Francia, 1972/1987) - 353 goles.
75. Oscar Mas (Argentina, 1964/1985) - 352 goles.
80. Mario Kempes (Argentina, 1970/1996) - 345 goles.
82. Sebastián Abreu (Uruguay, 1994/2012) - 340 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
94. Arsenio Erico (Paraguay, 1930/1949) - 331 goles.
115. Hernán Crespo (Argentina, 1993/2012) - 318 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
116. Alessandro Del Piero (Italia, 1991/2012) - 318 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
119. Filippo Inzaghi (Italia, 1991/2012) - 315 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
126. Mario Jardel (Brasil, 1990/2012) - 313 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
127. Angel Labruna (Argentina, 1939/1961) - 313 goles.
135. Samuel Eto'o (Camerún, 1997/2012) - 308 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
137. David Villa (España, 2000/2012) - 306 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
140. Martín Palermo (Argentina, 1992/2012) - 305 goles.
143. Juan García Rivas (Venezuela, 1988/2012) - 304 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
150. Ronaldinho (Brasil, 1998/2012) - 300 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
153. Maksim Gruznov (Estonia, 1992/2012) - 298 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).
155. Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal, 2001/2012) - 297 goles (EN ACTIVIDAD).

[ALVAREZ6]

I wasn't going to post this because I don't know if it's true or not and because I can't provide a link because I got it from "El Grafico" (an Argie sports magazine, so you should take that in consideration, although it has the reputation of making serious/professional journalism and I don't think they would make up something like this)

Well, the thing is that this magazine decided to make a historic revision of the greatest goalscorers of all-time and came up with the interesting fact that only 757 of the suppossed 1284 goals that Pele scored are official.

Among the 527 goals that Pele counts there are 446 in Santos friendlies and trainings, 26 in Cosmos friendlies, 9 with a Sao Paulo all-star team, 6 with a team that combined Santos and Vasco da Gama players, 18 in Brazil's exhibitions, 3 for the "Sao Paulo's athletes union", 5 in "benefit matches" and 14 for the Army of Brazil (WTF :lol)
lmao of course that's true, everyone knows Pele counts friendlies and shit... :lmao even my roommate, who knows virtually nothing about soccer, knows that. That's why I'm always joking about this subject... P:loll:lol counting goals scored against friends in pickup games :lmao.

[diego]

I post other people's opinion (specially those of imparcial ones) to counter the argument that only Messi's homers can think he is in the GOAT debate.

the opinion of millions of people > the opinion of a bitter old man that had his sexual debut with a teammate

billions of people believe are monotheists, that doesnt make their beliefs true.

and there is a big difference between putting him in the GOAT debate (which most everyone here and anywhere will agree to) than to proclaim him GOAT already, as you have. Its the same thing as Rafa Nadal- a couple years back people were already proclaiming him the best ever, and it turns out that injuries, bad luck, and good play from federer and Nole and nobody is talking about nadal being goat anymore (tbh he is still young enough to be goat, but the point is you dont make that analysis when a player hasnt even hit their prime, no matter how promising they are).

As for Pele, it is well documented that a good chunk of his goals are from friendlies or against non-1st division opponents. That would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that he constantly rubs those stats in people's faces. Still, and even for all the dislike I have for him for being a FIFA/corporate shill, he was an amazing player who made iconic goals like this one (and in a WC no less):

AWD1JrcUVq8

Probably the most underrated goal scorer ever is Muller, that guy was a machine and he is rarely ever mentioned by anyone.

yR7WdA0Ozak

[DAF86]

billions of people believe are monotheists, that doesnt make their beliefs true.

and there is a big difference between putting him in the GOAT debate (which most everyone here and anywhere will agree to) than to proclaim him GOAT already, as you have. Its the same thing as Rafa Nadal- a couple years back people were already proclaiming him the best ever, and it turns out that injuries, bad luck, and good play from federer and Nole and nobody is talking about nadal being goat anymore (tbh he is still young enough to be goat, but the point is you dont make that analysis when a player hasnt even hit their prime, no matter how promising they are).

As for Pele, it is well documented that a good chunk of his goals are from friendlies or against non-1st division opponents. That would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that he constantly rubs those stats in people's faces. Still, and even for all the dislike I have for him for being a FIFA/corporate shill, he was an amazing player who made iconic goals like this one (and in a WC no less)

Please, provide a link to a post where I have said that. I can't believe you're so obsessed with me yet you don't know the things I stand for.

[Landon Donofag]

AKGIvag0bVI

BEAST.

[mudyez]

I wasn't going to post this because I don't know if it's true or not and because I can't provide a link because I got it from "El Grafico" (an Argie sports magazine, so you should take that in consideration, although it has the reputation of making serious/professional journalism and I don't think they would make up something like this)

Well, the thing is that this magazine decided to make a historic revision of the greatest goalscorers of all-time and came up with the interesting fact that only 757 of the suppossed 1284 goals that Pele scored are official.

Among the 527 goals that Pele counts there are 446 in Santos friendlies and trainings, 26 in Cosmos friendlies, 9 with a Sao Paulo all-star team, 6 with a team that combined Santos and Vasco da Gama players, 18 in Brazil's exhibitions, 3 for the "Sao Paulo's athletes union", 5 in "benefit matches" and 14 for the Army of Brazil (WTF :lol)

lol...I scored scored like 300 unanswerde points in my backyard yesterday...Mr. Stern, plz call me for my HoF introduction!

whats that about the stats anyway? first of it makes so much of a difference where you score goals ect.: in one of the big european leagues its so much different than in a south american league...and even there its difficult to compare. using friendlies and maybe even practices is a joke. and after all counting goals to compare players is even more insane than counting touchdowncatches to decide who was the best NFL player ever (no offense Jerry, you may really be the best).

Poor Pele...age is catching up with him. Everyone knows Beckenbauer is the best player ever.

[velik_m]

I wasn't going to post this because I don't know if it's true or not and because I can't provide a link because I got it from "El Grafico" (an Argie sports magazine, so you should take that in consideration, although it has the reputation of making serious/professional journalism and I don't think they would make up something like this)

Well, the thing is that this magazine decided to make a historic revision of the greatest goalscorers of all-time and came up with the interesting fact that only 757 of the suppossed 1284 goals that Pele scored are official.

Among the 527 goals that Pele counts there are 446 in Santos friendlies and trainings, 26 in Cosmos friendlies, 9 with a Sao Paulo all-star team, 6 with a team that combined Santos and Vasco da Gama players, 18 in Brazil's exhibitions, 3 for the "Sao Paulo's athletes union", 5 in "benefit matches" and 14 for the Army of Brazil (WTF :lol)

What, he didn't count the ones he scored in Escape to Victory?

[diego]

AKGIvag0bVI

BEAST.

5x0 up, end of the game, provoking the defender, nice move leading... nowhere. I would say he was just inviting to get kicked, but tbh it looks more like a flop to me. those are the kind of plays that are more about humiliating the defender / making yourself look good than to actually win games. if he put his hand on his hips waiting for a defender in maybe any other league in the world, he would probably be in the operating room right now; he certainly didnt do it vs Barcelona in japan.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Neymar is absolutely overrated, he is the Jason Williams of football, all flash, nothing else.

Also he hasn't played that much against Argentinian teams... this is what happens when you try to do that showboating and winding up shit only when you're winning

3bjut4n5B2s

(White and blue: Arg team, Red and black: Brazilian)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Neymar is absolutely overrated, he is the Jason Williams of football, all flash, nothing else.

Also he hasn't played that much against Argentinian teams... this is what happens when you try to do that showboating and winding up shit only when you're winning

3bjut4n5B2s

(White and blue: Arg team, Red and black: Brazilian)

That's quite sad. True, but sad and pathetic.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

That's quite sad. True, but sad and pathetic.

Would you rather bend over to someone who is winding you up only after they got the game in the bag?

[resistanze]

Neymar is absolutely overrated, he is the Jason Williams of football, all flash, nothing else.

Also he hasn't played that much against Argentinian teams... this is what happens when you try to do that showboating and winding up shit only when you're winning

3bjut4n5B2s

(White and blue: Arg team, Red and black: Brazilian)

I've only seen a shortened version of this video maybe 10 years ago. :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Would you rather bend over to someone who is winding you up only after they got the game in the bag?

I'd rather people not be dumbasses that resort to physical violence for something as idiotic as someone showing off. In fact, I'm all for making it a lifetime ban from football for whomever does it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not talking about the video ofcourse, I'm saying Neymar doesn't deserve to be physically injured because he likes to showboat. Showboating is part of the game, being a violent retard that gets upset because other people are better than him is not.

[velik_m]

Would you rather bend over to someone who is winding you up only after they got the game in the bag?

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

* Isaac Asimov, Foundation

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Violence is not only physical. Winding up someone is as violent as throwing a punch in retaliation.

Wasn't Materazzi violent calling Zidane's sister all sorts of stuff?

And while I do agree that a punch might be going overboard, football nowadays is too watered down. Everything is a foul, specially in the Brazilian league. Players dive all the time, even when there's no contact because they know the refs will bail them out. If current players had to deal with how football was played in the 60's, 70's and 80's they would leave the pitch crying after 5 minutes.

[tlongII]

That's one thing I like about MLS. There is much less diving in MLS compared to other leagues around the world.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Violence is not only physical. Winding up someone is as violent as throwing a punch in retaliation.

hence why I specified "physical violence"


Wasn't Materazzi violent calling Zidane's sister all sorts of stuff?However, verbal violence and physical violence aren't equally as egregious now are they? calling someone's mom a bitch isn't on the same level as physically assaulting them.


And while I do agree that a punch might be going overboard, football nowadays is too watered down. Everything is a foul, specially in the Brazilian league. Players dive all the time, even when there's no contact because they know the refs will bail them out. If current players had to deal with how football was played in the 60's, 70's and 80's they would leave the pitch crying after 5 minutes.I think we can all agree the diving in football has become a fucking joke. That still doesn't justify hitting or injuring someone because he/she made you look bad whether it be necessary or not.

Again, I agree the diving has become ridiculous, but I don't necessarily agree that going back to the violence in football during those decades you mentioned is a good thing either.

[diego]

I'm not talking about the video ofcourse, I'm saying Neymar doesn't deserve to be physically injured because he likes to showboat. Showboating is part of the game, being a violent retard that gets upset because other people are better than him is not.

doesn't deserve? does his opponent deserve to be taunted? I'm not talking about pulling some fancy dribble, I'm talking about waiting with your hands on your hips and doing stationary step overs. Deserve has nothing to do with it.
Saying that showboating is part of the game is just as helpful as saying cheapshots are part of the game.
Bottomline is that some players like to do that shit even if it doesnt help the team win, and those players nearly always, in any league, get hit, either from a "legal" challenge or a cheapshot like in the video MMLH posted.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

doesn't deserve? does his opponent deserve to be taunted? I'm not talking about pulling some fancy dribble, I'm talking about waiting with your hands on your hips and doing stationary step overs. Deserve has nothing to do with it.
Saying that showboating is part of the game is just as helpful as saying cheapshots are part of the game.
Bottomline is that some players like to do that shit even if it doesnt help the team win, and those players nearly always, in any league, get hit, either from a "legal" challenge or a cheapshot like in the video MMLH posted.

are you equating showboating with hitting someone on the face??

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm sorry, but I find your way of thinking completely idiotic. If a player has the ability to do something on the field in terms of the game of football then he has the right to try and do it. I don't give a shit how it makes the player in front of him feel when he's unable to stop him.

Give me a fucking break! I don't particularly enjoy when a player that is more skilled than me at football does a fancy trick and leaves me wondering what the fuck happened, but I'm not about to resort to tackling him or punching him in the face for having done it, no matter what the fucking score is.

Its a completely ridiculous notion, and one that has no place in the sport.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Like I said, I'm a big proponent of enacting bans for those sorts of attitudes. Gradually increasing in severity in terms of the severity of the action of course, but a ban nonetheless.

[DAF86]

I don't like to see players showboating but I dislike more those emotional retarded scrubs that have to resort to hitting because they can't get the ball back.

You don't like to get "showboated" get the ball back and don't lose and if you can't, keep trying.

Hitting is for pussies.

[hater]

tbh in world cup play Neymar/Messi are pretty even.

Pele is probably just concentrating on world cup play. You know, the playoffs of soccer.

guys like Pele are like Jordan, you haven't won in the playoffs, you don't belong in the conversation. :toast

[diego]

I'm sorry, but I find your way of thinking completely idiotic. If a player has the ability to do something on the field in terms of the game of football then he has the right to try and do it. I don't give a shit how it makes the player in front of him feel when he's unable to stop him.

Give me a fucking break! I don't particularly enjoy when a player that is more skilled than me at football does a fancy trick and leaves me wondering what the fuck happened, but I'm not about to resort to tackling him or punching him in the face for having done it, no matter what the fucking score is.

Its a completely ridiculous notion, and one that has no place in the sport.

When a player like messi dribbles past three defenders and chips the keeper, he doesnt give anyone stares or come down the next time acting like he is unguardable. he just makes his plays and keeps going. same with manu- at the most he might get a little excited and fist pump, but he is not going to be petulant with his opponent or start looking for the cameras. when these guys get hit, its because their opponent is frustrated and that is wrong, but understandable to a degree, with the degree being how legit the attempt to recover / stop the play was.

when a guy like neymar dribbles past three defenders and chips the keeper, he gives everyone his stare down, starts dancing and shining his shoe and winking at the camera, he is showing up his opponent. same with say blake griffin now. rightly or wrongly, in the history of sport those guys get hit with a different kind of prejudice than the others do. they all get hit, make no mistake, but the showboating, taunting types always get hit more, either by cheapshots or "legit" hard tackles. and I believe it is warranted, because there is no reason to be a little bitch just because you are better.

and to be clear, I dont have a problem with Neymar's dribble in that vid; it's a nice dribble, even if it doesnt particularly get him anywhere. the problem for me is before the defender gets there and he's got his arms on his hips, those little one footed stepovers that only serve to mock the defender. the only way you can argue that being necessary is the psychological effect on the other player, but to me that is provocation just like Materazzi talking shit or Van Bommel feeling people up on a corner kick, it has nothing to do with skill and all about lack of class.

The way you make it sound, you are ok with say Ricky Davis shooting at his own basket for an extra rebound- there's no rule against it right? I'm pretty sure there are rules against taunting in both footie and basketball, but those rules are never applied evenly and less for a superstar like Neymar.

one thing is for a guy to nutmeg you or lob it over you etc etc etc, another is for that guy to tease you before / after doing it. If you can't tell that Neymar is doing that here, then I guess you don't play much.

[hater]

When a player like messi dribbles past three defenders and chips the keeper, he doesnt give anyone stares or come down the next time acting like he is unguardable. he just makes his plays and keeps going. same with manu- at the most he might get a little excited and fist pump, but he is not going to be petulant with his opponent or start looking for the cameras. when these guys get hit, its because their opponent is frustrated and that is wrong, but understandable to a degree, with the degree being how legit the attempt to recover / stop the play was.

when a guy like neymar dribbles past three defenders and chips the keeper, he gives everyone his stare down, starts dancing and shining his shoe and winking at the camera, he is showing up his opponent. same with say blake griffin now. rightly or wrongly, in the history of sport those guys get hit with a different kind of prejudice than the others do. they all get hit, make no mistake, but the showboating, taunting types always get hit more, either by cheapshots or "legit" hard tackles. and I believe it is warranted, because there is no reason to be a little bitch just because you are better.

and to be clear, I dont have a problem with Neymar's dribble in that vid; it's a nice dribble, even if it doesnt particularly get him anywhere. the problem for me is before the defender gets there and he's got his arms on his hips, those little one footed stepovers that only serve to mock the defender. the only way you can argue that being necessary is the psychological effect on the other player, but to me that is provocation just like Materazzi talking shit or Van Bommel feeling people up on a corner kick, it has nothing to do with skill and all about lack of class.

The way you make it sound, you are ok with say Ricky Davis shooting at his own basket for an extra rebound- there's no rule against it right? I'm pretty sure there are rules against taunting in both footie and basketball, but those rules are never applied evenly and less for a superstar like Neymar.

one thing is for a guy to nutmeg you or lob it over you etc etc etc, another is for that guy to tease you before / after doing it. If you can't tell that Neymar is doing that here, then I guess you don't play much.

:sleep wake me up when Messi does this in the Playoffs, I mean the World cup

[Landon Donofag]

Based God :cry

RqGA6tr7FaU

:cry Jason Williams
:cry only 20 years old

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

:lol Brazilian league
:lol Smoke and mirrors
:lol the next Robinho
:lol hasn't done shit with national team
:lol Brazilians desperately needing to hype someone for their World Cup
:lol flat-track bully

[Landon Donofag]

:lol hasn't done shit with national team

How ironic. :lmao:lmao:lmao