Grades: Spurs vs. Lakers - Apr. 11

[timvp]

Coming into this contest, I thought this was a near must-win for the Spurs because losing against the Lakers without Kobe Bryant would be a confidence-deflating turn of events. I didn't want the Spurs to be knocked off the high horse they've been riding for the last couple months. Unfortunately, not only did the Spurs lose, they got dominated by the Lakers.

The 98-84 final score doesn't even begin to explain how much better Los Angeles was on this night. The Lakers had a huge height advantage and capitalized on that advantage over and over and over again. In contrast, the Spurs looked small, slow, soft, disengaged and totally unprepared.

Without Bryant, it was Andrew Bynum leading the charge for the Lakers. To say he controlled the paint would be the understatement of the season. He grabbed 30 rebounds -- the all-time record against the Spurs -- and protected the rim better than any player has all year against the Spurs.

As for the Spurs, this is obviously a very disheartening turn of events. While I'm not going to say they were exposed as a fraud tonight, this could be the beginning of the end if the ship isn't righted ASAP. Thankfully, San Antonio takes on Memphis tomorrow and will have an opportunity to partially erase the bad taste left behind after tonight's bitter defeat.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/2lsgqcy.jpg

http://oi44.tinypic.com/1hdz82.jpg

Tim Duncan D+
Tim Duncan did some good things tonight. First of all, while 14 points doesn't look too impressive, it's an enormous improvement considering he scored 12 points in 85 minutes against the Lakers all of last season. Secondly, his post defense was really good. The main reason why Bynum and Pau Gasol shot so poorly was Duncan's interior D. However, both of those positives were more than negated by his flaws. Offensively, he held onto the ball way too much, killed the ball-movement, had iffy shot selection and wasn't nearly physical enough. But his most unforgivable negative was his defensive rebounding. Considering Duncan is rebounding better than ever on the defensive end, it's shocking how poor he was tonight. I know that Bynum is long and reasonably athletic but there's simply no way to excuse getting out-rebounded by 28 boards. That just can't happen.

Manu Ginobili D+
Coming into this game, the one area where the Spurs had a significant advantage was their bench. Manu Ginobili is the head of that snake and San Antonio needed him to destroy L.A.'s reserves. Instead, the Lakers grew their lead when Ginobili entered the game. Offensively, while he made a few really good passes, the rest of his production was subpar. He had no explosion when going to the rim and didn't attack with any assertiveness. Ginobili also was responsible for more than half of the team's turnovers. Defensively, he had energy in spurts but was below average on the whole; Ginobili didn't offer much effective help in the post and his closeouts on shooters were slow.

Tony Parker F
It was just a pathetic, pathetic effort by Tony Parker. He couldn't hit an outside jumper to save his life, which was especially damning because the Lakers were going under every screen. While I can accept Parker missing shots, I can't accept Parker wilting and playing a timid brand of basketball. He's a leader (if not [i]the[/b] leader) on this team -- he has to play like it and show some heart. Curling up into a fetal position on offense and playing pitiful defense is not the answer. If the Spurs are going to do anything in the playoffs, they can't have Parker fail to compete like he did tonight … and like he did last year in the playoffs, for that matter.

Danny Green A-
Danny Green is one Spurs player who could leave the arena with his head held high. Early on, I thought his tenacity was the only thing that kept the Lakers from blowing the game wide open. He drove the ball to the basket, took open shots with confidence and even mixed in a few great passes. His help-defense was really good, especially when doubling on the post. Green cooled off a bit in the middle two quarters but then stepped up and was able to make things respectable in the fourth quarter. Overall, I was really impressed with what I saw out of him. When everyone around him was playing tentatively and seemed afraid to make the wrong move, Green was going all out in a desperate attempt to keep the Spurs afloat. I think this outing proves he deserves to keep his starting spot for the foreseeable future.

Kawhi Leonard C
First of all, Kawhi Leonard played five minutes in the fourth quarter so only about 13 of his minutes came in the guts of the game. During that time, Leonard really made little to no impact. Offensively, he oscillated between being too passive and too aggressive. (Leonard is now 0-for-5 on three-pointers in the month of April -- that's something to keep an eye on.) Defensively, he tried to help defend Bynum and Gasol but he didn't make much of a difference; Leonard needs to learn how to be more forceful when coming to double-team bigs. With the Lakers dominating the glass, it would have been nice if Leonard pulled down a few contested boards … but that didn't happen. After scoring in double-digits in 11 of 14 games, Leonard has scored less than eight points in six straight outings. It's safe to say he has hit some sort of rookie wall. Let's hope it's temporary.

DeJuan Blair D
On paper, DeJuan Blair versus Bynum is a mismatch. In reality, it was a mismatch of epic proportions. Blair tried hard to defend Bynum on the block but it was futile. Rebounding-wise, Blair's shortcomings on the defensive glass were magnified. Blair didn't even register as a speed bump when Bynum wanted to grab an offensive board. On the other end, Blair had no hope when looking to score over the Lakers bigs. Honestly, while Blair was a massive negative, I don't know if he's even capable of fulfilling the role the coaching staff asked him to fulfill. I'm not sure what more could be expected when Blair is going against players who are faster, more athletic, more talented and a half-foot taller.

Stephen Jackson B+
Outside of Green, I thought Stephen Jackson was the bright spot. He brought much needed physicality to the game. Jackson was strong when defending the post, came with purposeful double-teams and his individual D was solid. He also gave really good effort on the boards. Offensively, Jackson took smart shots, passed the ball well and kept running the plays even when everyone else was panicking. He probably could have attempted to pick up more of the slack but I was satisfied with the way he played. If more of his teammates played with his level of fight, things would have been much different.

Patrick Mills D-
With Gary Neal out with a stomach ailment, Patrick Mills was the backup point guard. Let's just say that the Spurs really missed Neal. In all facets of the game, Mills was extremely underwhelming. He didn't have his typical energy on defense. Instead of pestering the ball, he could only offer half-hearted hand-waving. Offensively, he took a few horrible shots and just didn't play smart. Assertive shooters work in the Spurs system … but Mills is taking it too far. Mixing in more passes and getting the Spurs into their sets with crisper action would have really helped. As ugly as Neal is to watch at times, he runs circles around Mills right now when it comes to being able to create plays for his teammates. That said, I suspect Mills was tired tonight. He just wasn't moving with his usual pizzazz.

Matt Bonner D
While Matt Bonner knocked down his three-pointers, that was the extent of his positive play. He was much too active with his dribble; I don't mind it every now and then but it can't be a staple of San Antonio's offense. Defensively, he was definitely part of the problem. He played some passable post defense but he was mostly just too small and too weak. The lowlight of his night was when he allowed Josh McRoberts to blow by him for a dunk. And do I even need to explain why Bonner needed to pull down more than one rebound in 20 minutes?

Boris Diaw C-
If Boris Diaw is trying to earn a spot in the rotation, he's not doing a very good job. Offensively, his passing up of shots was annoying -- especially since the Lakers bigmen were sagging so much. Diaw's three assists came long after the game was already in the bag for the Lakers. Defensively, he didn't do anything special. His post defense was decent but not much of an improvement over anyone else. He double-teamed a lot but his timing was poor. Diaw wasn't bad but he also didn't give the coaching staff any reason to make room for him in the rotation.

Tiago Splitter C+
On offense, Tiago Splitter took advantage of the few touches he received. He could have been more demanding about getting the ball but most of the blame should be directed at his teammates. Splitter has been a huge part of the bench's success yet he was largely ignored tonight. That's something that needs to be addressed going forward. Defensively, I didn't like much of what Splitter did. He allowed Gasol and Bynum to get optimal position on him repeatedly. He also wasn't protecting the rim as much as usual. Splitter didn't box out well and he was definitely another weak link on the boards.

Pop F
I've been whining all season about Pop failing to build chemistry between Duncan and Splitter. Tonight we saw why I've been so adamant about the importance of that combination. When faced with a tall frontline, Duncan and Splitter should be an option. However, due to Pop's complete and utter mismanagement of his bigmen, he doesn't have the ability to trot out Duncan and Splitter with any sort of cohesiveness. It's a huge coaching mistake that may ultimately cost the Spurs their playoff lives. On top of that, I thought Pop should have given Leonard more time since he's the best perimeter rebounder on the team. He should have had a quicker hook with Blair and given more minutes to Jackson and Green. And while it was good to give Mills playing time so he could gain experience, I thought he should have pulled the plug and gone with Ginobili as the backup point guard.

[Cane]

Duncan had more blocks than rebounds, wtf. I wonder how many times he's done that in his career

Solid grades. Hopefully the Spurs can turn it around against the Grizz. Tiago needs to start starting :bang

Lakers are the worst matchup for the Spurs in the West...also didn't help that Joey Crawford was officiating...I swear the game really went to shit after he didn't see the ball went off Artest and the Lakers capitalized with two easy points :downspin:

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

I honestly don't think I can watch another series this postseason against a team with two 7-footers. It was seriously infuriating me last year that Pop wasn't giving Splitter more time against Memphis, I thought for sure he had learned his lesson and was confident it would change this year...boy was I wrong. If the Spurs run into LA or Memphis again it's going to be trouble, and maybe I'm wrong, but in my mind Pop deserves to be fired for his poor management of the development of Splitter.

[ElNono]

thanks!

[Nathan89]

Season Grades

Pop F

[PublicOption]

in the 2 games the big three played and the games were close(boston)or a loss(LA) the refs aren't making any calls. They are letting the oppostion hack the crap out of us and not calling them. We only hade 9 fta tonight. In the Boston game it wasn't much more.

So now the league has developed a formula to stop us. Don't call fouls on either side......and let the hacking take care of itself.

[mkurts]

The worst LA team in recent years without Kobe or the Zen master, thrashing what was supposed to be a much improved Spurs team.

I didn't think much of Mike Brown's coaching before, but he may have turned out to be a great fit for the Fakers as he is now the master of Pop.

Pure Pwnage

[Snaq O'Meal]

Duncan had more blocks than rebounds, wtf. I wonder how many times he's done that in his career

Solid grades. Hopefully the Spurs can turn it around against the Grizz. Tiago needs to start starting :bang

Lakers are the worst matchup for the Spurs in the West...also didn't help that Joey Crawford was officiating...I swear the game really went to shit after he didn't see the ball went off Artest and the Lakers capitalized with two easy points :downspin:

Duncan, being the tallest Spur on the floor, was the designated shotblocker to challenge the Lakers' big men. So it's reasonable to expect him to be out of position to grab rebounds. That task falls on the rest of the team. Fortunately for the Lakers, the Spurs' head coach never quite got over himself and his infatuation with his small ball lineups. And the rest was history...

Going forward, I hope to see this height disadvantage being negated by simple common sense. It's not like the Spurs can't throw two nearly 7-footers to counter Gasol and Bynum, or whatever big lineups from the Grizzlies.

[therealtruth]

I think you're being too hard on Duncan. He can't box out two seven footers by himself but two seven footers can box him out pretty easily.

[TheSkeptic]

in the 2 games the big three played and the games were close(boston)or a loss(LA) the refs aren't making any calls. They are letting the oppostion hack the crap out of us and not calling them. We only hade 9 fta tonight. In the Boston game it wasn't much more.

So now the league has developed a formula to stop us. Don't call fouls on either side......and let the hacking take care of itself.

Not buying this at all.

Boston's defensive reputation allows them to play a more physical brand and ditto for LAL although not to the same extent. Against the Lakers, the Spurs and Tony were mostly settling on the perimeter anyway so it's not like there were all that many fouls to call.



As an aside, Timvp I think your grades are better than the ones at 48 Minutes. Normally their marks and yours are more or less in the same range but when I clicked over there and saw this line: "Should the Spurs meet the Lakers in the playoffs, I can see Bonner starting."

Link: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/el-conclusion-los-angeles-lakers-98-san-antonio-spurs-84#ixzz1roA8OkbH

I just...I mean I wouldn't put it past Pop at this stage but the writer didn't sound nearly as furious about the idea as I would be...

So I guess this is just a really long way of saying "Thanks". :toast

[2centsworth]

I thought pop quit when the lakers were on their first run early in the 3rd to increase the lead to 20. Obviously the spurs needed a time out, but pop let his frustration get the best him him and let The game get out of control

[Chase_the_Bass]

Duncan had 3 blocks in the first quarter, I know he should have finished with more than that.

[TE]

Have to chime in before knocking out...

Not playing Splitter and Duncan together will cost the Spurs any chance at being able to compete with the Lakers or similar teams posing analogous match up problems. I read in a thread before coming to see Timvps grades and it contained the notion that Splitter isn't played because he's not good enough, that's horseshit. You don't teach height, period. Splitter ain't very good or great (however one wants to think of it) but he's the next best thing to counter the imposing frontcourt of the Lakers. I posted a comment in the game blog regarding the possibility of the assistant coaches questioning his moves. After a couple of hours of thinking about it............. I still can't believe no one has called him out, whether it be a matter behind the scenes or whatever, someone has to help him strategize against teams like the Lakers because he looks like he has lost it. I wish someone could take Pop for hostage and tie him to a chair in front of a TV airing Spurs games vs Lakers/Grizzlies. After seeing his mad genius rotations fail time and time again, maybe then would he entertain the idea that his current rotations are a recipe for playoff exits.




End rant.

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the grades Tim.

[Legacy]

I think you're being too hard on Duncan. He can't box out two seven footers by himself but two seven footers can box him out pretty easily.


AGREED!


Be nicer to Timmy, please. :cry

[therealtruth]

Another advantage of starting two seven footers is you can play volleyball when teams use small lineups.

[Fireball]

Thanks for the grades. I am really embarrassed and ashamed of the overall team play. Even at the half I would have bet a huge amount of money that we would pull out a win. I was so looking forward to this matchup, because the Lakers are still the arch rival ... once again disappointment set in and within in one night the Spurs became pretenders again. I agree that Pop has to try to play Splitter and Duncan together, so that Tiago at least plays 25 minutes.

I am at work right now, but my mood is so sour ... someone throw a blanket over my head please ...

[will_spurs]

Unfortunately the upcoming series of games will do little do regain confidence. The Spurs as they are built now are just a punchbag for teams with 2 decent bigs. There aren't that many of them in the league (but we're going to face at least one of them in the playoffs) AND we haven't played them so far, which helps us in the standings. However playing the Lakers 3 times and Memphis once in the last 11 games was exactly what this team didn't need. I fail to see how there's any hope to rebound when we're going to be served just more of the same tomorrow night, with Blair going on an impossible mission to defend Gasol or Z-Bo and Splitter rotting away on the bench.

To add insult to injury, one would have thought that, of all nights, tonight would have seen Duncan + Splitter minutes reaching at least 48 minutes (i.e. at least one of them on the floor at all times, if we can't have both) but they only played a total of 39 minutes (and I will assume they were never both on the floor at the same time), meaning we gave the Lakers 9 minutes of utter small ball, whereas Bynum + Gasol played 77 minutes combined, at least 29 of them together on the floor.

As an outside observer, I'd guess Pop was trying to throw away this game.

There's a silver lining to this however: on the Spurs side, several players played like crap, which never helps; whereas on the Lakers side I see Kobe coming back as a positive for us, as the ball will be less in the hands of the players who can really crush us. I'd rather have Kobe being the only player on their team taking 20+ shots, compared to Bynum taking 20 and Gasol taking 24.

[Fireball]

I'd rather have Kobe being the only player on their team taking 20+ shots, compared to Bynum taking 20 and Gasol taking 24.

This is why I think our chances are better against Memphis this year ... their frontcourt is not as deep as last year and Rudy Gay (like Bryant) takes away possessions for the big guys. Still not confident about tonight though ...

[objective]

As an aside, Timvp I think your grades are better than the ones at 48 Minutes. Normally their marks and yours are more or less in the same range but when I clicked over there and saw this line: "Should the Spurs meet the Lakers in the playoffs, I can see Bonner starting."

Link: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/el-conclusion-los-angeles-lakers-98-san-antonio-spurs-84#ixzz1roA8OkbH

I just...I mean I wouldn't put it past Pop at this stage but the writer didn't sound nearly as furious about the idea as I would be...

So I guess this is just a really long way of saying "Thanks". :toast

48 MoH's irrational love affair with Bonner goes back a long time, so I wasn't surprised by this bizarre writing.

One of their main writers was on the ESPN NBA Today podcast as a guest last season with Russilo and was 100% serious when telling Russilo that the reason the Spurs could beat the Lakers was because Matt Bonner was the secret weapon who would be a huge match-up problem for the Lakers bigs.

[TheSkeptic]

48 MoH's irrational love affair with Bonner goes back a long time, so I wasn't surprised by this bizarre writing.

One of their main writers was on the ESPN NBA Today podcast as a guest last season with Russilo and was 100% serious when telling Russilo that the reason the Spurs could beat the Lakers was because Matt Bonner was the secret weapon who would be a huge match-up problem for the Lakers bigs.

:wow

Unbelievable. Are they on Pop's payroll?

What I don't get is how practically nobody in the comments section seems to pick up on stuff like this. Then again, they seem to be a bit behind SpursTalk in terms of their consensus opinion on the team and its players...

[angelbelow]

Embarrassing to say the least. The Lakers aren't better without Kobe, they're just different - but they have the potential to be much more deadly with Bryant on the court. Which makes this loss incredibly disheartening. Additionally, we like to point to our bench as a clear advantage over theirs - yet we couldn't come close to winning when their depth was further weakened by Kobe's injury.

Bonner played about as well he could, probably deserves a B+ because he was 3/4 from beyond the arc. Pop deserves the F here for overextending him. Even after the Lakers fully adjusted to Bonner's offensive presence, Pop kept him in there. Why Bonner was given the 2nd most minutes is beyond me and frankly not fair to the guy.

Splitter had a few soft moments but was physical in general. I thought he, along with Bonner, Green, and Jackson were the bright spots tonight. I don't remember him giving up position after position. But then again, you probably re-watched the game where as I was trying to not to storm out of the room from too much taunting. Question of the night for me: "Why doesn't your coach play Splitter?"

[polandprzem]

I woke up for this game just after 3 am

And that was a waste of everything for me.

The second time after being full of hope I'm now doubt in the spurs. The previous time was against Boston and now against LA. Spurs are unable to do anything vs better defenses.

They are helpless, and Pop wanting more offense clearly did not prepare the spurs in practice against tougher defense.


Spurs looked bad and I do not see any positives.

[Texas_Ranger]

I woke up for this game just after 3 am

And that was a waste of everything for me.

The second time after being full of hope I'm now doubt in the spurs. The previous time was against Boston and now against LA. Spurs are unable to do anything vs better defenses.

They are helpless, and Pop wanting more offense clearly did not prepare the spurs in practice against tougher defense.


Spurs looked bad and I do not see any positives.


Yea me too. I watched all but 4 Spurs games this season and we Europeans always need to wake up a 2,3 or 4 a.m. It's not really a problem but when you have to go to school in the morning then you're fucked, especially if your teams plays like they are on a picnic party.

The Spurs look like the Suns, they can go and score 120 points against teams that don't play defense, but when a team like Boston comes we start looking like shit. The same problem's with teams that have great bigs. Lakers just raped us, I mean Bynum did it. Can't wait to see what will Pop do against Gasol/Randolph tonight. If Splitter and Tim won't play together for at least 10 minutes then I say LOL to everyone who said this team is different from last year. We just have a bunch of shooters and no inside game.

[therealtruth]

Bynum looks taller than 7'. It was comical to see a 6'5" Blair running around him. The guy had no chance. So Pop's secret weapon was Matt Bonner? No decent defensive coach is going to allow Matt Bonner to beat them.

[Texas_Ranger]

Next time lets put Mills on Bynum. :rollin

[L.I.T]

A loss doesn't bother me. This type of loss, with the seeming lack of competitive fire and toughness from our top players, does.

[SA210]

Season Grades

Pop F

[ManuTastic]

Total nightmare of a game.

Grasping for any positive: in the old days, SA would cough up horrible, shit games like this once in a while, Pop would scream at them for being soft, and they'd come back motivated and tough next time. And WIN!

Fortunately we only have to wait till tonight to see if that happens against Memphis, another team with two high-quality bigs.

PS. When did Bynum transform into prime Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

[acoelho1]

Funny.. I thought Splitter was the only big that showed some toughness down low. Also, I think a few of these losses may be a good thing by showing Pop that turd ball won't work in the playoffs. Our depth and 3 point shooting will be less of a factor in the playoffs and we will need to grind out some games and that's where Splitter would provide huge benefits.

[ManuTastic]

PPS: When did Ron Artest turn into vintage Larry Bird?

[DBMethos]

Spurs played scared, and that trickles down from Pop. Parker, too, since he is now the de facto leader on the court. They always talk about showing the "appropriate fear" for the opponent...they had way too much fear on display last night. Where was the crisp, unselfish ball movement that we've seen over the past few months? Why was Blair playing at all? Is Duncan/Splitter not even worth a try at this point? Fortunately there's two more chances to get their shit together against LA before the real season begins, but hope is dwindling fast.

[TJastal]

Duncan had more blocks than rebounds, wtf. I wonder how many times he's done that in his career

Solid grades. Hopefully the Spurs can turn it around against the Grizz. Tiago needs to start starting :bang

Lakers are the worst matchup for the Spurs in the West...also didn't help that Joey Crawford was officiating...I swear the game really went to shit after he didn't see the ball went off Artest and the Lakers capitalized with two easy points :downspin:

A missed call caused Bynum to get 30 rebounds?

:lol

[benefactor]

No in depth analysis needed on this one. The players they needed to step up played like dog shit.

Short and long of it tbh.

[Bartleby]

Gary Neal for MVP

[Sportcamper]

When did Ron Artest turn into vintage Larry Bird?
Artest has really worked himself into phenomenal shape…He got wind of being trade bait…McRoberts socks continue to confuse defenders…Coach Brown has Kobe on the bench to help him draw up plays..Andrew Bynum recently learned that if he put his hands over his head he has a better chance of getting rebounds than if his hands are by his sides...Also give credit to Jim Buss who was able to hire a coach that can stay awake the entire game…

[Russo21]

Doesnt matter guys. A loss to LA with Bryant out isn't all bad.

Next time we play them KoMe the ball hog will shoot 40 shots and fuck up the Lakers strength on the interior that is Bynum/Gasol.

It's fun watching Kobe clang shot after shot ignoring the two headed beast on the inside

[rmt]

Doesnt matter guys. A loss to LA with Bryant out isn't all bad.

Next time we play them KoMe the ball hog will shoot 40 shots and fuck up the Lakers strength on the interior that is Bynum/Gasol.

It's fun watching Kobe clang shot after shot ignoring the two headed beast on the inside

You think that after seeing this total domination Kobe's going to ball-hog vs SA. No Finals MVP at stake in the West - he'll just pound it into the post as any normal, sane person would with Blair, Bonner and Diaw defending Gasol/Bynum. Only 15 mins last night for Splitter - disgusting!

[DarrinS]

Tony going fetal and Pop's stubborn refusal to play Duncan/Splitter was a recipe for disaster. No single big man, even a hall of fame big, can match up against two quality 7-footers. Why do you suppose Spurs won two titles in the DRob/Duncan era?

[Russo21]

Yeah Pop is fucked in the head not playing Splitter alongside Duncan especially when we're in need of rebounding and defense, we've been over and over that topic all year.

I wish Duncan would stand up to Pop and say 'old man what the fuck are you doing i need help on the inside from someone other then a fat midget and a red headed three point shooter, man me up with Tiago for once old man'

The only thing bigger then Bynum's rebounding total is Bryant's ego. So yes, i think KoMe will ballhog as usual and go against the Laker's interior prowess in search of his own stats. We can only hope. Great player and all but he can be his and his team's worst enemy.

[rmt]

Thumbs down on the genius who made SA's schedule with 3 games vs LAL so late in the season. If this had happened early in the season, Pop would have had all season long to play Splitter more and with TD. But wait, the MEM series happened and nothing changed so ... maybe it's just the stubbornness and arrogance of the coach, his love affair with small ball/Bonner/Blair.

If I were Splitter, I'd leave SA as soon as I could. No way a quality 7 footer with some semblance of post moves should be sitting on the bench with so few good big men in the league. For all of the good development of wings has been, Pop's development of Splitter has been beyond piss-poor and stems from him going away from true bigs vs DAL in 06. Can't understand why some one who coached the Twin Towers and won 4 rings, would put away the philosophy that size and defense of the paint wins championships.

[DarrinS]

Did anyone besides me have a flashback to Malik Rose guarding Shaq?

Only Rose on Shaq >>>>>>>> Blair on Bynum

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Tony going fetal and Pop's stubborn refusal to play Duncan/Splitter was a recipe for disaster. No single big man, even a hall of fame big, can match up against two quality 7-footers. Why do you suppose Spurs won two titles in the DRob/Duncan era?

We also won two titles in the Duncan only era.

[TheSkeptic]

We also won two titles in the Duncan only era.

And how old was Duncan at the time?

[Russo21]

If I were Splitter, I'd leave SA as soon as I could. No way a quality 7 footer with some semblance of post moves should be sitting on the bench with so few good big men in the league. For all of the good development of wings has been, Pop's development of Splitter has been beyond piss-poor.

100% agree. If Tiago loves the game of basketball i think he should walk away from the Spurs and the NBA and go to South America or Europe. Anywhere he actually would get playing time. Pop has treated him like dirt so Tiago owes this organisation nothing. I wouldn't blame Tiago at all if he left us to go somewhere else in the world to actually play, not watch, the game he loves.

Any team in Europe, Australia, South America will welcome him with open arms. If he did leave i'd wish him the best.

[DarrinS]

We also won two titles in the Duncan only era.

Did we face a duo like Bynum/Gasol in those years?

[DarrinS]

Tony should sit down and watch the Mavs/Lakers series from last season. "Mini me" was fearless.

[TheSkeptic]

100% agree. If Tiago loves the game of basketball i think he should walk away from the Spurs and the NBA and go to South America or Europe. Anywhere he actually would get playing time. Pop has treated him like dirt so Tiago owes this organisation nothing. I wouldn't blame Tiago at all if he left us to go somewhere else in the world to actually play, not watch, the game he loves.

Any team in Europe, Australia, South America will welcome him with open arms. If he did leave i'd wish him the best.

He's proven he can play at this level though. Why would he leave the NBA when the Spurs have a history of giving free bigs to other Texas teams?

In Houston he'd be with Scola (who Spurs fans are all familiar with), have a bigger guy in Dalembert to play with, and guys like Lowry (?) are actually pretty solid where the pick and roll/post passing is concerned.

Factor in the huge pay raise and the increase in minutes and it's a wrap in my opinion. I'm reaching a point where even if he did blow up on another team I'd be angrier at Pop more than anything else.

Even if the coaching staff is a little bit cowardly, does Tim have no clout with Pop either?

[Russo21]

Well he should demand a trade to a team he'd actually get playing time for. I'm just saying, didnt mean just europe, south america, australia etc. any team in the nba would be fine for him to. I just feel sorry for him being plastered to the bench.

Like i said, he's done nothing wrong here, if he went to another team id wish him the best and only have resentment for the coach who didnt play him.

Timmy has to man up!

[SenorSpur]

Another good writeup.

It's sad when the Spurs leading rebounders are both Jackson and Leonard.

The other troubling thing is that the Big Three of Manu, Tony and Tim looked and played the way they did even after getting a couple of days of rest!

[jag]

Pop's mismanagement of Tiago is an abomination.

[Keepin' it real]

A loss doesn't bother me. This type of loss, with the seeming lack of competitive fire and toughness from our top players, does.

This lack of competitive fire and toughness comes from the head coach, who:



Historically pulls his starters when the going gets tough, instead of demanding that they try to claw their way back into the game, AND
Like an overly cautious mother, won't let his players play in some games because "they might get hurt."

Talk about the "wussification" of your team.

[TheSkeptic]

Pop's mismanagement of Tiago is an abomination.

Agreed. Though I don't think anything can be done about it at this point.

[Josepatches_]

Splitter had a few soft moments but was physical in general. I thought he, along with Bonner, Green, and Jackson were the bright spots tonight. I don't remember him giving up position after position.

Agree.

In the first half Bynum scored against him but he scored easily vs Duncan too. Bynum is a beast and none can't stop him all the time.

In the second half he guard Bynum well. I remember Bynum missin a shot and they fighting for the position next plays so he didn't shot more.
Then Gasol came in for Bynum and he scored 2 long JS over him...but you can't do a lot against a 7'1'' shooting JS.



Also he scored the only ball he received in 4th down against Pau. We should play more 4th down with Splitter.

Splitter B-

[lefty]

Pop is overrated



I told you

[DMC]

Pop is still in training camp mode, tinkering. I don't think he was that worried about this game.

[DMC]

Pop is overrated



I told you
Meanwhile his foe, Mike Brown, is getting coaching lessons from the chucker. I'll take Pop.

[rjv]

the point about pop's mismanagement of big men is spot on. it may just be ingrained in pop's mentality. ultimately, the reason we gave up on ever getting scola was because pop felt he could not play alongside tim and this seems to be the same perception pop holds about splitter and tim on the court together.

[Johnny RIngo]

ultimately, the reason we gave up on ever getting scola was because pop felt he could not play alongside tim

Even if Scola couldn't play with TD, they could have had him coming off the bench. The FO office gave up on Scola because they were fucking cheap. Simple as that.

[spursince#99]

Ramon Sessions had more rebounds than Tim Duncan. Just WOW

[hater]

:lmao Blair and Bonner getting a D

anything but an F is BS

Real grades:
manu F
pop F
Bonner F
Blair F
Parker F
Duncan D
Mills C
Splitter C
Leonard C
Jax C
Green B

[bklynspursfan]

For what its worth... I feel bad for Memphis tonight

[Mugen]

Pop is still in training camp mode, tinkering. I don't think he was that worried about this game.

:lol training camp mode in April.

He'll be in offseason mode by early May if he's still tinkering now.

[Blake]

Tony should absolutely be ashamed of that miserable, pathetic performance. I would really be ok if he punches himself in the face and has to miss tonights game.

Considering who he is and where he and the Spurs are at this point, it might be the worst game I've ever seen from him. Srsly.

[Dex]

After Tony missed a couple jumpers and got that layup blasted by Bynum, it's like he just mentally checked out. Totally unacceptable.

[team-work]

Thanks for the grades. I never watched a full game this season but your excellent work more than made up for it.

Like many of our fellow posters on ST, I am an advocate for playing Tiago next to TD, so strongly that I wish I could fly to USA now and persuade Pop to do so. It looked as if Pop was uncomfortable to have another true big alongside Duncan since Robinson retired. I wondered if it is true or I am biased because I have followed the Spurs since the Twin Tower era.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol pop believers still givin him the benefit of the doubt

lol white flag

[superbigtime]

If this had happened early in the season, Pop would have had all season long to play Splitter more and with TD. But wait, the MEM series happened and nothing changed so ... maybe it's just the stubbornness and arrogance of the coach, his love affair with small ball/Bonner/Blair.

If I were Splitter, I'd leave SA as soon as I could. No way a quality 7 footer with some semblance of post moves should be sitting on the bench with so few good big men in the league. For all of the good development of wings has been, Pop's development of Splitter has been beyond piss-poor and stems from him going away from true bigs vs DAL in 06. Can't understand why some one who coached the Twin Towers and won 4 rings, would put away the philosophy that size and defense of the paint wins championships.

AMEN! Where's the POP haters people have been asking. I'm right here. This coach is a fool. Yes shooting and ball movement are obviously important but this is a tall man's game. Putting your team at a disadvantage over and over by playing small ball and getting dominated on the boards when you have a 7 foot young man with post moves who makes only limited mistakes is simply illogical. What is wrong with this stupid idiot coach? He has thrown the last two games for all intents and purposes. Fool idiot. Going to the memphis game tonight, I intend to get drunk to have a semblance of a good time. Fuck Pop. Idiot. Making mistakes is one thing, but refusing to learn from them is quite another.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manu and especially Parker should be ashamed of themselves.

I can't blame Duncan too much because its playing 1 vs 2 down low.

I don't even know how Parker looks at himself in the mirror after last night. How many games against physical playoff type teams has Parker had everything at the rim stuffed, clanked every jumper, and then depends on flailing and whistles to get his few points?

Also, how many physical teams has manu come out determined to set turnover records?

[ChumpDumper]

Thumbs down on the genius who made SA's schedule with 3 games vs LAL so late in the season. If this had happened early in the season, Pop would have had all season long to play Splitter more and with TD.He already had all season.


If I were Splitter, I'd leave SA as soon as I could.I guess one would have to ask him.

[Drom John]

The Lakers are better without Kobe as the Knicks are better without Amare. Both stars reduce teammates to spectators.
If we play the Lakers in the postseason, I'm hoping Kobe is playing.

[Mugen]

Good Morning, Chump.

[benefactor]

People that want Duncan and Splitter playing together against the Lakers are right but on the grand scale that's not the solution to the Spurs problems. The Spurs need a real PF...a player that is somewhere between Carl Landry and Kevin Love. Splitter and Duncan are both basically centers and should both play more down low than on the perimeter.

[ChumpDumper]

People that want Duncan and Splitter playing together against the Lakers are right but on the grand scale that's not the solution to the Spurs problems. The Spurs need a real PF...a player that is somewhere between Carl Landry and Kevin Love. Splitter and Duncan are both basically centers and should both play more down low than on the perimeter.I guess. Splitter's effective range is two feet but Duncan already is playing more on the perimeter this season, with or without Splitter.

[benefactor]

I guess. Splitter's effective range is two feet but Duncan already is playing more on the perimeter this season, with or without Splitter.
He is...but a true PF would be much more effective splitting time with Duncan in the paint\on the perimeter. All in all, a mobile player that can knock down a jumper and compete on the boards would be ideal. Dice in the Pistons years is the mold that comes to mind.

[Thompson]

Duncan/Oberto worked fine in '07, and people say Splitter is like a rich man's Oberto. I don't understand why Pop is dead set against Duncan/Splitter.

[TJastal]

He is...but a true PF would be much more effective splitting time with Duncan in the paint\on the perimeter. All in all, a mobile player that can knock down a jumper and compete on the boards would be ideal. Dice in the Pistons years is the mold that comes to mind.

I don't agree that Splitter can't play the PF position, he's defenitely mobile enough to do so. And he would present problems for the opposing weaker PF's of the league. He may not be the prototype but he's damn close.

Diaw might have also been a good option as well. But of course, between all the maniacal managing of minutes, missed games, the merry-go-round rotations, and stubborn fool mentality we haven't hardly gotten a chance to see what he's capable of either.

[Mugen]

Duncan/Oberto worked fine in '07, and people say Splitter is like a rich man's Oberto. I don't understand why Pop is dead set against Duncan/Splitter.

Splitter/Duncan is a casualty of the shift to an offensive mindset Pop's had since 08. Not much more to it.

[Mugen]

The most confusing part about it is how DeJuan is still starting when Splitter does everything DeJuan does but 10x better.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't agree that Splitter can't play the PF position, he's defenitely mobile enough to do so. And he would present problems for the opposing weaker PF's of the league. He may not be the prototype but he's damn close.He has zero range. Not the hallmark of a traditional PF on offense anyway.

[TJastal]

The most confusing part about it is how DeJuan is still starting when Splitter does everything DeJuan does but 10x better.

+1

I'd say Splitter is at least Blair's equal offensively (and that's being kind to Blair) and defensively it's no contest.

[TJastal]

He has zero range. Not the hallmark of a traditional PF on offense anyway.

Well that's why he would be utilized in the low post, and Duncan utilized on the perimeter. Just like we have been discussing all year..

[ChumpDumper]

Well that's why he would be utilized in the low post, and Duncan utilized on the perimeter. Just like we have been discussing all year..So on offense, he wouldn't be playing the traditional PF position.

[therealtruth]

Well that's why he would be utilized in the low post, and Duncan utilized on the perimeter. Just like we have been discussing all year..

Exactly. Splitter plays the center role close to the basket on offense and defends the power forward or harder matchup on defense.

[TJastal]

So on offense, he wouldn't be playing the traditional PF position.

Well is this an issue for you? Mark Jackson used to make a living posting up other point guards. I doubt anyone was going to call him out because he wasn't being "traditional" enough.

[benefactor]

Let me clarify...the Spurs need Duncan, Splitter and a real PF.

[loveforthegame]

Disappointed to see the big 3 get the night off against Utah only to take the night off against the Lakers. Hope they bounce back and take it out on Memphis tonight.

Not saying Neal would have won us the game but he's definitely a player not afraid of the Lakers. We can add Green and Jackson to the list. Now if only other guys decide to join them.

[maverick1948]

17-46 ? 37 %? Normally, that would be good enough to get at least a B on defense.
23-39 ? 59 %? Normally, that would get a bottom level grade of D for defense.

Top line is big on big. Bottom line is wings against wings. Maybe I dont see everything on the court but watching the replay after sleeping on the loss, I saw more from the bigs than credit was given. We were out rebounded more on our offensive end because more than once "Blair" just left the paint to get back on "D". It was not as bad for our bigs as it appeared as several of the rebounds Bynum got would have gotten an over the back call against most any other team. Not much can be said for Blair but he sucked big time. Tim, Tony and Manu did not make the trip to Utah and played like this was the 3 game of a b2b2b. Tim's timing on the boards was way off. Tony played like a rookie from the dleague and Manu, well, let's just say Manu was on his regular 4 or 5th game off night. Tim and Manu deserved an F and if you could use Z for the worst grade even, Tony would get it for the performance or lack there of.

Leonard, SJax and Mills showed energy but little else. Diaw, the new big to save the Spurs against the teams with 2 good bigs, failed to show up for this one. With his wide body and 9 years of experience, he should have at least stood up to Bynum one time. But he didnt. Bonner did more than Diaw is why he is getting the minutes. A good number of times Bonner blocked out on the boards only to see that Splitter or Duncan or Blair were out of position to get the board.

Our wings gave up open shot after open shot to the Lakers. I'm not sure why Barnes was left so open early but that is where the game went to pot. Aside from Green and Anderson(late), NOT ONE of them challenged the Lakers inside.

Grade for Green was the only correct grade. Bonner may have deserved to get higher than D but not much, maybe a C-. All the others should have been D, F or Z in Parkers case.

[Obstructed_View]

He has zero range. Not the hallmark of a traditional PF on offense anyway.

Yes, Blair's ability to hit a jumper from 20 feet has been the key to their success.

[therealtruth]

It was not as bad for our bigs as it appeared as several of the rebounds Bynum got would have gotten an over the back call against most any other team.

A 6'5 center is not getting an over the back call on a 7'1 center with long arms.

[ChumpDumper]

Well is this an issue for you? Mark Jackson used to make a living posting up other point guards. I doubt anyone was going to call him out because he wasn't being "traditional" enough.Did I say it was an issue for me?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, Blair's ability to hit a jumper from 20 feet has been the key to their success.Isn't he listed at center?

[Obstructed_View]

Isn't he listed at center?

So is Splitter.

You didn't actually have a point, and you're not man enough to admit that you're full of shit, right?

[ChumpDumper]

So is Splitter.

You didn't actually have a point, and you're not man enough to admit that you're full of shit, right?You just made my point for me.

Thanks!

[Pocket Hippo]

Pop might have been dipping into the Merlot when he wrote the strategy for that game. I think Pop was embarrassed last night, hopefully enough to start Splitter against LA next time. I know stat-wise Blair is terrible but I like his hustle, sadly hustle doesn't make you taller. Blair on Bynum is a formula for a loss, you cannot give up 7 inches and tons of length and expect to win.
Benefit of the doubt: Pop was seeing if he could use Blair on Bynum in the playoffs... i think he got his answer.

[Obstructed_View]

You just made my point for me.

Thanks!

So you want Splitter and Blair starting?

[ChumpDumper]

So you want Splitter and Blair starting?You think that's what you said?

:lol

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Can't we all just get along

[Obstructed_View]

You think that's what you said?

:lol

Did you say what you are now denying you said like the pussy you are?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you say what you are now denying you said like the pussy you are?Well, what you think you said in reaction to what you think I said seems to be way off.

You're very emotional about a rather innocuous conversation. I don't' really understand why. Are you still wounded about something I said to you before?

[BRs.Ganso]

I think Splitter should be traded... what a waste!

at least he will be rested to olympics, to defend my team! :lol:toast

[jag]

Pop might have been dipping into the Merlot when he wrote the strategy for that game. I think Pop was embarrassed last night, hopefully enough to start Splitter against LA next time. I know stat-wise Blair is terrible but I like his hustle, sadly hustle doesn't make you taller. Blair on Bynum is a formula for a loss, you cannot give up 7 inches and tons of length and expect to win.
Benefit of the doubt: Pop was seeing if he could use Blair on Bynum in the playoffs... i think he got his answer.

It's certainly a possibility but I wouldn't count on it. Pop has shown he is incredibly stubborn when it comes to certain rotations. You can usually count on him to keep "pounding the rock", for better or for worse.

edit: It usually takes something drastic for him to make such an important change to the rotation. (George Hill - Dallas series; Tiago - Memphis series). I don't see a regular season loss carrying much weight in the mind of Pop, although it probably should. It would take a string of embarrassing loses for it to really hit home (like it did on previous occasions), but this Spurs team might be slightly good enough to avoid that. Which might not be such a good thing.

[z0sa]

- TP is the main reason Spurs lost. I am placing the blame on the Spurs "superstar" like it should be. We all saw the Mavs murder the Lakers just last season, yet TP can't hit a single bucket in the first half, and only takes 4 attempts? Please don't tell me JJ Barea has a bigger nutsack than you, Tony.

- Tim Duncan looks absolutely done any time we play the Lakers lately. He needs to get much more physical, 2 inch vertical or not. Accrue some fouls, dude. I understand Pop's gameplan is to never foul but against a size advantage that's your only choice so make em count.

- Danny Green and Stephen Jackson both played decently well but considering the Spurs never strung together anything even resembling a run between the time after the initial minutes of the first quarter until the 4th quarter and blowout party time, I'm not too impressed.

- Spurs needed Neal on this night more than they've ever needed him. Watching Mills jack up shots like he was Neal and brick them over and over yet still get playing time is absolutely disgusting.

- Finally, Splitter playing 15 minutes and not getting ample time next to TD is completely stupid and unforgivable. If Splitter does not get big minutes tonight I will officially move to centerfield concerning Pop. I have almost always supported his questionable decision making, particularly concenring Bonner, but against the biggest and most talented frontcourt in the League you play your most talented and tallest defensive bigs.


One can only hope this type of loss is a blessing in disguise. Maybe it puts TP a little more "up against the wall" so to speak. Maybe Pop plays Splitter more and consistently. Maybe the team overall gets a spark lit under their ass. But overall, this one was really, really ugly. There's not much of a silver lining to be had considering how close the playoffs are and how stupidly stubborn Pop has proven himself to be and ultimately, how exposed the Spurs looked.

[jag]

I've said it before, but I think the only reasonable explanation as to why Pop won't give Splitter more minutes is because he doesn't want him getting injured before the playoffs. There are pros and cons to this, but it's the only thing that really makes sense. Outside of that it's hard to justify Tiago's increasingly limited role.

[z0sa]

I've said it before, but I think the only reasonable explanation as to why Pop won't give Splitter more minutes is because he doesn't want him getting injured before the playoffs. There are pros and cons to this, but it's the only thing that really makes sense. Outside of that it's hard to justify Tiago's increasingly limited role.

IMO you're not supposed to "rest" players in their 20's anyway, lockout season be damned ... this new "resting" phase Pop has entered concerning guys like DeJuan, Neal, Bonner, Splitter, etc feels like a bunch of bullshit mind games, tbh

[therealtruth]

IMO you're not supposed to "rest" players in their 20's anyway, lockout season be damned ... this new "resting" phase Pop has entered concerning guys like DeJuan, Neal, Bonner, Splitter, etc feels like a bunch of bullshit mind games, tbh

They've pretty much shown that below around 33 min per game resting is not going to make a difference. At best it will be injury avoidance. But you have to balance that with being conditioned enough to play hard in the playoffs.

[maverick1948]

:king
A 6'5 center is not getting an over the back call on a 7'1 center with long arms.


I guess you missed the other 35 mins of the game when Blair was on the bench. :(

[DMC]

Manu and especially Parker should be ashamed of themselves.

I can't blame Duncan too much because its playing 1 vs 2 down low.

I don't even know how Parker looks at himself in the mirror after last night. How many games against physical playoff type teams has Parker had everything at the rim stuffed, clanked every jumper, and then depends on flailing and whistles to get his few points?

Also, how many physical teams has manu come out determined to set turnover records?
This is a brief synopsis of the game, tell me if you can see where we went off course:

Spurs shoot, clank off rim, Lakers rebound and dump to Bynum who shoots and misses, tip up, miss, tip up miss, Pau tip up miss, tip up miss, Bynum tip up scores. Spurs shoot, clank off rim, Lakers dump to Bynum, shoots, misses, tip up miss, tip up miss, tip up score. Spurs shoot, clank off rim, MWP scores, Spurs shoot, clank off rim, MWP scores, Spurs shoot, clank off rim, MWP scores. Spurs shoot, clank off rim, MWP scores. TD gets to line, both shots clank off rim, MWP scores...


It wasn't about turnovers.

[DMC]

Pop isn't playing Splitter because Pop has no idea how to develop bigs. That's been the case since day 1. Other than two 1st overall picks, there have been zero "good" bigs on the Spurs roster, zero.

[TheSkeptic]

Pop isn't playing Splitter because Pop has no idea how to develop bigs. That's been the case since day 1. Other than two 1st overall picks, there have been zero "good" bigs on the Spurs roster, zero.

Pop doesn't have to do all that much in this case though.

It looks like Splitter's been learning most of his new moves from Tim and has been following the advice of the FT coach. He's playing in the post more and I think that as long as you mix it up with the pick and roll he's fine playing extended minutes.

All Pop has to do is give him court time to figure it out, experiment, build some chemistry with Tim, and get some proper conditioning.

It's not like Splitter won't suddenly get his minutes bumped up when Pop tries to salvage this year's post-season disaster anyway.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop isn't playing Splitter because Pop has no idea how to develop bigs. That's been the case since day 1. Other than two 1st overall picks, there have been zero "good" bigs on the Spurs roster, zero.

Since he was Euroleague MVP, you dont' have to "develop" him, you simply have to "allow him to play".

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Fans constantly try to get into Pop's head and look for some possible scenario as to why he does something a certain way. As fans we'll never know the reasons, but by this point we should be pretty good at knowing what the results will be.

In other words: Pop isn't going to play Splitter a lot of minutes now or in the future, unless it's elimination time. And when he does it, it's not because he thinks it's a good idea, even if fans do.

[angelbelow]

Since he was Euroleague MVP, you dont' have to "develop" him, you simply have to "allow him to play".

Yeah, you would think Tiago winning the Euro League mvp is enough to earn him some playing time. Winning the Euro League mvp was good enough for Manu and Tony, why not for Tiago?

[ducks]

will manu every get a f
by timvp
I thought the whole should have gotten one with the day off and pop resting the big three on monday.

I think the spurs thought lakers would roll over without kobe

[ducks]

tp was part of the problem he did not let them outrebound the spurs by 100

[therealtruth]

Pop isn't playing Splitter because Pop has no idea how to develop bigs. That's been the case since day 1. Other than two 1st overall picks, there have been zero "good" bigs on the Spurs roster, zero.

Yeah even Blair has actually regressed. I remember Pop being proud of doing nothing to develop Blair in his rookie season.

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Thanks a bunch for this list. Shows just how bad we played last night.