The Splitter-Duncan pairing that never happens

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Splitter-Duncan pairing that never happens

by Andrew A. McNeill

AT&T CENTER — One of the perks of having press credentials to the Spurs games is being able to sit with other bloggers while the game is going on and bounce ideas off each other. Last night, when the Spurs beat the Grizzlies 107-97, the topic again came up between myself, Matthew Tynan of Pounding the Rock and Paul Garcia from Project Spurs of Coach Pop’s aversion to playing Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter together.

It’s been mentioned time and again that starting Splitter and Duncan would give the second unit a big man combo including two of Matt Bonner / Boris Diaw / DeJuan Blair. I still believe that second group would be a defensive liability for the Spurs.

But why don’t Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter play together late in games?

From what I’ve noticed, Pop wants Duncan running the pick-and-rolls with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili late in games. It’s hard to argue that someone else should be setting picks and rolling to the basketball because Tim Duncan is, well, Tim Duncan. You’re going to argue that the greatest power forward of all-time shouldn’t be the one in those situations?

The problem is that Tiago Splitter is a pick-and-roll guy. There’s not much else for him to do on offense if he’s not putting a body on an opposing guard and diving to the basket. Splitter’s not going to stretch the floor and float around anywhere near the perimeter, waiting to knock down a jumper. Posting up and pick-and-rolls are the extent of his offensive game.

That’s why you see a lot of Matt Bonner late in games. He does those things that Tiago Splitter doesn’t as a compliment to a Duncan pick-and-roll. Even if he hasn’t knocked down shots in that game, he’s still got a track record as a spot-up 3-point shooter and defenses have to respect that.

Where most people will understandably resist Splitter’s exclusion from the crunch time lineup is on the defensive end. Pairing Duncan and Splitter together will obviously give the Spurs their best defensive big man combo. The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

Basically, the take away on the defensive end with Bonner is less than the negative on the offensive end with Splitter. Would you rather score seven points in the last two minutes and allow six, or score 10 points in that time and give up seven? That’s essentially the game Pop is playing right now.

What will be interesting over the next week and a half or so is to see if Boris Diaw can eat up some of Bonner’s crunch time minutes. Diaw maybe able to provide some floor spreading capabilities similar to Bonner, with better passing, and he puts up comparable defensive numbers to Bonner with a slightly better total rebound percentage. Something to keep an eye on as we get into the playoffs.

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/tim-duncan-tiago-splitter-spurs

[Splits]

You crashed their website posting that link here.

[mexicanjunior]

There is nothing wrong with Splitter pick and rolls with Duncan roaming for 15 footers and crashing the glass. Saying the offense will crash to a halt because Duncan and Splitter are on the court together is idiocy. Plus, if he thinks Matt Bonner is a capable enough defender to guard the likes of Gasol, Randolph, Griffin, Nowitzki, Scola (thread) and Millsap in the playoffs...he has been watching the games with blinders on. Bonner may be ok trying to defend Ibaka but no way he keeps him off the glass.

[acoelho1]

Yeah, Bonner is a great defender when we are having to double and triple team his man. Somehow Bynum and Gasol play together. Maybe the Lakers should only give Bynum 13 mins a game and let him play with the 2nd unit to give them more size.

[5in10]

How did we hide Oberto years ago? Why cant we just show splitter oberyns videos and tell him to do what he did. Makes no sense, it's not like oberto had any range, and him and Tim played all the time...arghhh this is probably the most frustrating thing I've witnessed since being a fan in the early 90s.

[TheSkeptic]

How did we hide Oberto years ago? Why cant we just show splitter oberyns videos and tell him to do what he did. Makes no sense, it's not like oberto had any range, and him and Tim played all the time...arghhh this is probably the most frustrating thing I've witnessed since being a fan in the early 90s.

Agreed. The only thing that could possibly frustrate me more is if Splitter was somehow starting with Tim next season or dropped altogether. Both scenarios would really get my blood boiling (even more) and I can't figure out which would annoy me more.

[thOOdee]

b0o0o.......use that press badge for something good and stop sucking pops junk.

[thOOdee]

it doesn't make sense how this conclusion is made without having a bigger sample size of timmy and tiago playing together.

[Aztecfan03]

There is nothing wrong with Splitter pick and rolls with Duncan roaming for 15 footers and crashing the glass. Saying the offense will crash to a halt because Duncan and Splitter are on the court together is idiocy. Plus, if he thinks Matt Bonner is a capable enough defender to guard the likes of Gasol, Randolph, Griffin, Nowitzki, Scola (thread) and Millsap in the playoffs...he has been watching the games with blinders on. Bonner may be ok trying to defend Ibaka but no way he keeps him off the glass.

this.

And also if they dont play together, Splitter should at least be getting all the minutes that Tim is not on the court.

[Robz4000]

I agree that Matt is a better defender than we give him credit for, but this article is basing these observations on limited minutes for the Splitter/Duncan combo while Bonner and Tim have played together for years.

[therealtruth]

How did we hide Oberto years ago? Why cant we just show splitter oberyns videos and tell him to do what he did. Makes no sense, it's not like oberto had any range, and him and Tim played all the time...arghhh this is probably the most frustrating thing I've witnessed since being a fan in the early 90s.

It's not even just Oberto. If Blair can start Splitter is more than capable of starting.

[ViceCity84]

Oberto in 2007
Nazr in 2005
These bigs couldn't shoot a lick.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

48 MoH must be on the Spurs payroll.

[TheSkeptic]

48 MoH must be on the Spurs payroll.

:lol That would be so hilarious. If only there was some way to investigate that stuff.

[Texas_Ranger]

Oberto in 2007
Nazr in 2005
These bigs couldn't shoot a lick.

yea, we didn't have to spread the floor back then and we still won. Ok, Horry was great in 05 but Bonner is no big shot.

[Paranoid Pop]

yea, we didn't have to spread the floor back then and we still won. Ok, Horry was great in 05 but Bonner is no big shot.

We didn't play the same way, the team has done a 180° and is now winning with offense so any comparison is moot, plus Tim wasn't the same.

We win when we score more than 100pts. Pretty sure than the few Tiago Tim frontline sightings didn't result in a scoring output that kept us on pace for 100+.

Then again hard to score 100+ when you don't grab any rebound but the spacing does help with that to some extend.

[TheSkeptic]

We didn't play the same way, the team has done a 180° and is now winning with offense so any comparison is moot, plus Tim wasn't the same.

We win when we score more than 100pts. Pretty sure than the few Tiago Tim frontline sightings didn't result in a scoring output that kept us on pace for 100+.

Then again hard to score 100+ when you don't grab any rebound but the spacing does help with that to some extend.

Sure the scoring wasn't enough to put you at 100+ but at least when they played together the opponents weren't scoring that much either.

I don't think there's very many teams that have won it all with mediocre defense and our offense is good but not to the point where we can do away with defense altogether.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I thought Spitter was a good player but after reading this article I learned that actually he's only good in pick and roll and post ups...if only those were important skills for a bigman. Luckily we have Bonner who excels in the fundamentals of standing still 25 feet from the basket waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

Another nuanced, insightful 48MOH article.

[Paranoid Pop]

I thought Spitter was a good player but after reading this article I learned that actually he's only good in pick and roll and post ups...if only those were important skills for a bigman. Luckily we have Bonner who excels in the fundamentals of standing still 25 feet from the basket waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

Another nuanced, insightful 48MOH article.

Yet I'd be curious to see Tiago's PER paired with Tim as opposed to Bonner who gives him a lot of room in the paint.

[TheSkeptic]

I thought Spitter was a good player but after reading this article I learned that actually he's only good in pick and roll and post ups...if only those were important skills for a bigman. Luckily we have Bonner who excels in the fundamentals of standing still 25 feet from the basket waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

Another nuanced, insightful 48MOH article.

:lmao

I wish there was some way to "like" posts/posters.



Yet I'd be curious to see Tiago's PER paired with Tim as opposed to Bonner who gives him a lot of room in the paint.

I don't think that's the way to judge it though. They've barely played together in the last two years and nobody's saying that they'll fit as seamlessly as either of them + regular season Bonner.

We just think the defense gets significantly better with them both on the floor and that with some work the offense should be solid enough that the Spurs can actually become serious contenders. As a pair, they'd still be a work in progress but I'd rather lose now and be better prepared for the playoffs if that's what it comes down to. This would also allow us to play our best players when it matters.

[Paranoid Pop]

I don't think that's the way to judge it though. They've barely played together in the last two years and nobody's saying that they'll fit as seamlessly as either of them + regular season Bonner.

We just think the defense gets significantly better with them both on the floor and that with some work the offense should be solid enough that the Spurs can actually become serious contenders. As a pair, they'd still be a work in progress but I'd rather lose now and be better prepared for the playoffs if that's what it comes down to. This would also allow us to play our best players when it matters.

I feel like I'm seeing things more and more like Pop. 48 great minutes at the center position with a stretch 4 to give them space is better than 20 minutes with great rebounding, bad O, not that good D (Tiago is infinitely better at defending centers from what I've seen, then again some people say that he's just getting tired quickly) and x minutes with not real center.

Then again if Tiago has the conditionning to play more minutes, he could play back up center AND some PF, like Manu is playing back-up PG and SG when TP is in.

If Tiago had shown he could defend the Nowitzkis and Pau Gasols I may not have the same stance, but he hasn't while he did well against centers.

[TheSkeptic]

I feel like I'm seeing things more and more like Pop. 48 great minutes at the center position with a stretch 4 to give them space is better than 20 minutes with great rebounding, bad O, not that good D (Tiago is infinitely better at defending centers from what I've seen, then again some people say that he's just getting tired quickly) and x minutes with not real center.

Then again if Tiago has the conditionning to play more minutes, he could play back up center AND some PF, like Manu is playing back-up PG and SG when TP is in.

If Tiago had shown he could defend the Nowitzkis and Pau Gasols I may not have the same stance, but he hasn't while he did well against centers.

So now Lamarcus Aldridge is a center? He wasn't bad against Gasol or Dirk really and against the Lakers Tim really only needed him to take one of their frontcourt.

And at that, who says they have to play man to man when they've got two bigs near the basket? I'm sure there's a quasi-zone type system that can exploit that while allowing them to crash the boards.

You need to do what it takes to play your best players in the post-season (especially when Bonner/Blair are your other options).

[$pursDynasty]

I feel like I'm seeing things more and more like Pop. 48 great minutes at the center position with a stretch 4 to give them space is better than 20 minutes with great rebounding, bad O, not that good D (Tiago is infinitely better at defending centers from what I've seen, then again some people say that he's just getting tired quickly) and x minutes with not real center.

If Tiago had shown he could defend the Nowitzkis and Pau Gasols I may not have the same stance, but he hasn't while he did well against centers.

I am thinking this is how Pop sees it. The funny thing about this article is that for all you church of Tiago folks this article shows you can tell any lie you want with statistics. Just like you guys scoff at the statistics boasting of Ginger's defensive powers, the same can be said about always boasting about Tiago's +/- numbers. Some of the guys in here were acting like Tiago could handle Bynum in that last Laker game...:lmao

[timvp]

it doesn't make sense how this conclusion is made without having a bigger sample size of timmy and tiago playing together.

This is pretty much where I stand. Even if Pop doesn't think Duncan and Splitter will work in theory, he owes it to the team to find out. It's so un-Pop-like to just ignore a potential pairing that could be useful in the playoffs. Hell, he even attempted Parker/Ford, Leonard/Jefferson, Green at PG, Jackson at PF and other alignments that don't make much sense on paper.

It's obvious that Duncan and Splitter together wouldn't be perfect but there's no excuse for Pop to ignore it completely. The Spurs have played more than 2,700 minutes this season. Duncan and Splitter have played together a total of like 120 minutes. That's myopic to the nth degree, tbh.

[ElNono]

This is pretty much where I stand. Even if Pop doesn't think Duncan and Splitter will work in theory, he owes it to the team to find out. It's so un-Pop-like to just ignore a potential pairing that could be useful in the playoffs. Hell, he even attempted Parker/Ford, Leonard/Jefferson, Green at PG, Jackson at PF and other alignments that don't make much sense on paper.

It's obvious that Duncan and Splitter together wouldn't be perfect but there's no excuse for Pop to ignore it completely. The Spurs have played more than 2,700 minutes this season. Duncan and Splitter have played together a total of like 120 minutes. That's myopic to the nth degree, tbh.

None of that matters because Bonner is a serviceable team defender...

[purist]

The truth: Tiago is not nearly as great as he's made out to be on this forum and Bonner is not nearly as bad. Tiago is good and Bonner is serviceable but bad when he tries to do more than he is capable (like slashing to the basket).

More truth: While pairng Tiago and Tim on the floor at the same time sounds enticing, it is absolutely more critical that Tiago be on the floor when Tim is not and vice versa.

[roycrikside]

Tbh I don't want Splitter to be on the floor more just for the sake of the Tim-Tiago pairing. I just want him to play more regardless, but Pop wants to use him only for the minutes that Tim doesn't play.

Duncan will play 34-36 mins in the playoffs, you'd think, so that leaves only 12-14 for Splitter. By wanting him to play more, it necessitates playing with Duncan.

Even if Pop suddenly had a brain transplant and started playing Tiago 28 mins a night, only half of those at most would be with Tim, unless you want a second unit of Diaw-Bonner. Ideally the best scenario for Splitter is to be on the same schedule as Ginobili, where he plays about 26 mins, half with the bench and half with the starters. Really, the two of them should be together on the floor at all times period since they work the pick and roll so well.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I think people have it completely backwards in regards to Bonner. People act like he spaces the floor and makes it easier for the rest of the team. I look at it more like the rest of the team busts their ass on offense so he can stand around and get an open shot.

Beyond the obvious choke jobs he always pulls, his role, in theory, is passive. Tiago on the other hand plays actively. He makes things happen through his own will and action (which by the way is nothing special. It's Bonner who is special in regards to the NBA because he gets paid to stand around on the job.)

What type of player do I prefer? Someone who is active or someone who just stands around?

To put it another way, Bonner is emblematic of the lazy white American who succeeds by depending on immigrant labor...ok joking about the last part, but technically it's true.

[TheSkeptic]

Tbh I don't want Splitter to be on the floor more just for the sake of the Tim-Tiago pairing. I just want him to play more regardless, but Pop wants to use him only for the minutes that Tim doesn't play.

Duncan will play 34-36 mins in the playoffs, you'd think, so that leaves only 12-14 for Splitter. By wanting him to play more, it necessitates playing with Duncan.

Even if Pop suddenly had a brain transplant and started playing Tiago 28 mins a night, only half of those at most would be with Tim, unless you want a second unit of Diaw-Bonner. Ideally the best scenario for Splitter is to be on the same schedule as Ginobili, where he plays about 26 mins, half with the bench and half with the starters. Really, the two of them should be together on the floor at all times period since they work the pick and roll so well.

Yeah. I think something like the Ginobili treatment would be right. Playing those two together would also have the added benefit of mitigating Manu's physical decline a little bit because Tiago sets awesome screens and is quick on the roll which often gives Manu a little more room to get around defenders. From what I've seen, I don't think Tim is able to set picks and run like that on a consistent basis any more.

It might not mean a whole lot but every little bit helps if it means preserving Manu a little more during playoff games imo. The thing I like about both of them is that they're not afraid when they play. For the most part I can trust our top 5 players in the playoffs and that's something I haven't experienced in a while.

[Josepatches_]

Yeah. I think something like the Ginobili treatment would be right. Playing those two together would also have the added benefit of mitigating Manu's physical decline a little bit because Tiago sets awesome screens and is quick on the roll which often gives Manu a little more room to get around defenders. From what I've seen, I don't think Tim is able to set picks and run like that on a consistent basis any more.


I'm not sure but 90% of the time the actual Duncan stays in the same position after the pick so he is wide open to take JS . If he tries to run surely he would be effective as well but his stamina would decrease quickly.

Tiago and Blair run because they have no range

[SenorSpur]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

[TheSkeptic]

I'm not sure but 90% of the time the actual Duncan stays in the same position after the pick so he is wide open to take JS . If he tries to run surely he would be effective as well but his stamina would decrease quickly.

Tiago and Blair run because they have no range

True :D

Yeah. I think you've explained my point better than I have. :lol

[T Park]

48 MoH must be on the Spurs payroll.



:rolleyes

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.


I would agree.

I think the author will make a reference point to the other side of his argument, but then completely downplays the significance of that point.

For example, how can Bonner be considered a top defender if one is "terrified" that he's trapped in a one on one isolation on defense? To me, and I think to anyone with common sense, to be a good post defender you have to be able to stop you're man from scoring in isolation.

If people think of Bonner more as a robot then his play makes much more sense. He's been trained to know his role in the system. He has almost zero ability to think or act outside of some rote, memorized role.

A great regular season player, a dedicated fan of the sandwich to be sure, but not a reliable player for playoffs.

[ace3g]

If only Pop would use this mentality:


“I want to get him acclimated,” Popovich said of the versatile Diaw, who signed with the team on March 23. “I want to get him into our program, and the only way you do that is to get a guy to play. He can’t do much sitting on the bench and just try to get familiar with our program.”

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/13/newest-spurs-face-intensive-acclimation/

[Capt Bringdown]

OP from the Dusty Garza school of sports writing.

[slick'81]

bonner is nowhere near a good defender

[SplitterHook]

We win when we score more than 100pts.

we would need an amazing lucky to score 100+ points and holding teams bellow 100 points for 16 playoffs games..

[roycrikside]

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

Some people just have a bias against certain players. If you only notice the times a player gets scored against and always dismiss the times he plays good defense, you're always going to hate the guy because every player in the NBA gets scored against.

I guarantee if you chart any random 5-game sample of the regular season, like seriously chart every play, you'd come away if not impressed, at least grudgingly admitting that Bonner is a far better defender than you give him credit for.

[roycrikside]

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how [B]Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.


Btw, this is just such a lazy argument. If you're going to base your entire opinion of the Spurs on how they played last year against the Grizzlies and nothing that came before or after, then you should

A) Absolutely hate Tony Parker
B) Absolutely hate Tim Duncan
C) Absolutely hate Tiago Splitter
D) Love DeJuan Blair, since he was the only one besides Manu who had a positive +/-

It was one bad series of 6 games. Randolph played the by far the best basketball of his life (basically it was his '05 Ginobili postseason). He was making threes and basically everything he threw up went in. He and the Grizzlies got on a roll and everything that could go wrong for the Spurs, did. There are things called small-sample-sizes. Let it go.

[Warlord23]

Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year.

This is a dishonest statistic. Let's say Bonner is on Pau Gasol, Gasol backs him down into the post, Manu gets drawn in to double-team Gasol, Gasol passes to a wide open MWP or Barnes, who makes the 3. Bonner didn't give up points to his man, but the Spurs as a whole gave up points to the Lakers, because Bonner couldn't guard his man.

You've got to admire the audacity to spin statistics and claim that Bonner is the 6th best post defender in the NBA. I'd trust TD, Splitter, Diaw and even SJax to defend the post better than Bonner. I'm not sure Bonner is the 60th best post defender in the league.

[Russ]

I had this premonition.

Guess what the starting lineup is gonna be for the Spurs against the Lakers Tuesday night?

Leonard, Parker, Green, Duncan and . . .

Splitter. (The only one I'm not sure about is Duncan.)

Why? Because it's just how Pop operates. When you least expect it, he loves to do it.

To confound, to infuriate and, most of all, to show whose in charge and who cannot be understood or predicted.

As Patton said when the other Allied generals scoffed at his hunch that the German army might try an implausible "Hail Mary" offensive through the heart of the Ardennes forest (in the movie version):

"Never has an army attempted such an offensive through such impossible terrain in the dead of winter. No sane commander would even consider it. And that's why I think it's exactly what they'll do."

(Of course, unlike Patton, my premonitions rarely come true.:depressed)

[SenorSpur]

Btw, this is just such a lazy argument. If you're going to base your entire opinion of the Spurs on how they played last year against the Grizzlies and nothing that came before or after, then you should

A) Absolutely hate Tony Parker
B) Absolutely hate Tim Duncan
C) Absolutely hate Tiago Splitter
D) Love DeJuan Blair, since he was the only one besides Manu who had a positive +/-

It was one bad series of 6 games. Randolph played the by far the best basketball of his life (basically it was his '05 Ginobili postseason). He was making threes and basically everything he threw up went in. He and the Grizzlies got on a roll and everything that could go wrong for the Spurs, did. There are things called small-sample-sizes. Let it go.


Did you just start watching the Spurs last year? Where the hell have you been? Of course every player gets scored upon, but that isn't the point. Seeing a player repeatedly get torched by whomever he's assigned to guard or seeing said player get pushed around the court by more physical and aggressive players, is the point.

Want more? Okay, how about watching said player post solid regular season 3-pt shooting percentages, only to choke himself away and routinely brick those same shots every postseason? Those are not lazy arguments, my friend. Those are absolute facts that are repeated constantly.

Watch the damn games some time. Take whatever sample size you wish (large or small) and I'm sure you'll notice the trend - provided you remove the Bonner blinders.

[pgardn]

Part of the problem is, especially after the LA game, people think that Duncan-Splitter can act as Bynum-Gasol. Well they cannot, defensively or offensively imo.
We will never be able to defend with these two like the Lakers. The Lakers force teams to hit outside shots first, which many opponents have accomplished with ease on them, and then spread them a bit and get after the basket. Bynum will make stupid fouls and then Gasol takes over for longer periods because he is a better athlete.

Splitter is not a shot blocker. He is very simply tall and very mobile. Duncan is a timing shot blocker. On offense I dont see the problems the article states. I think offensively it might be able to work. But it will have to be something like stated above. Splitter setting screens and Duncan roaming. Part of the problem is Splitter has not shown clearly enough that he can clean up junk off an offensive board. He kicks back out, fine, but what about that easy putback. He scores most easily on the move towards the basket after a pass. He does not get his own easily on the offensive end unless we have already spread a team by hitting outside shots, that rare occasion we he has created superior position one on one against a smaller man.

Imo the best reason to have them together is very simply rebounding. If we had Tiago, Tim, Green and Leonard along with Parker and then put in Ginobili for Green, then we have some height, AND we have the athleticism and desire to corral long rbounds.

Bonner D stats. Yes he is better, but way overrated by the article. He is usually covering the weakest big on the other team.

[jag]

You crashed their website posting that link here.

That's probably the most popular Spurs blog on the net. Don't expect you to know that though

[rmt]

The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).

Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league (LOL), according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.

With this section of his article, the author completely lost any credibility he ever may have had. He obviously didn't watch a minute of that failed Memphis series, where Bonner was repeatedly ass-raped by Darrell Arthur, Zach Randolph and whoever else Bonner was assigned to. If that wasn't enough, he should've watched how Maresse Speights wiped the floor with our red-headed boy last night.

As Sheed said, "Throw it to whoever Bonner's guarding." The players and coaches know who is the weak link. Bonner's playoff failures are nothing new. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? It's all on Pop - Bonner is who he is. Pop is like a mad scientist with all these combinations but refuses to try the one that would improve our interior defense by leaps and bounds. Is it just sheer arrogance or stubbornness or what - that someone is unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

What's frustrating is that they have the solution sitting on the bench gathering dust. In years gone by Spurs' fans have been hoping for a young, mobile (okay maybe he's not athletic - but more so than any of the other big men we have) big man and he's being wasted away. I can stomach 15 minutes of Bonner in the playoffs as long as it isn't in crunch time but Blair - there's not one thing that he does that Splitter doesn't do better. And for the Pop apologists, spare me the "but Splitter doesn't spread the floor" - well, Blair doesn't either. Pop, open your eyes, give ALL of Blair's minutes to Splitter and the team will have a fair chance to compete with any team.

[TJastal]

Bonner's month of April shooting % numbers somebody posted in another thread really brought home the point to me that the guy just cannot handle pressure. It's almost like clockwork the numbers we're so eerily similar.

I bet you could chart each day of April and see a steady drop even within the month itself, day by day. :lol

[SA210]

F Pop!

[ace3g]

The Spurs MUST Play DeJuan Blair Less

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/4/14/2947420/spurs-dejuan-blair-boris-diaw-tiago-splitter-tim-duncan

[td4mvp21]

The whole "score 10, allow 7" is theoretical bullshit. In practice, Matt Bonner has choked every year in the playoffs. The Spurs cannot rely on him to give them that extra push on offense late in the fourth quarter.

And ever since he's been getting more minutes in playoff runs, specifically crunch time, the Spurs have gotten out in the first round twice and swept in the second round once. Certainly not the sole causation, but definitely a correlation that fails to justify playing him in crunch time.

[thOOdee]

The Spurs MUST Play DeJuan Blair Less

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/4/14/2947420/spurs-dejuan-blair-boris-diaw-tiago-splitter-tim-duncan

thanks for the read........if there were more articles like this the first year bonner and blair were the go to bigs off the bench, maybe more pressure would have been added to make the right adjustments.

and let me add. right now i got a fever, and the only prescription is more SPLITTER!

[eric365]

Oberto in 2007
Nazr in 2005
These bigs couldn't shoot a lick.

And Blair in 2011 and 2012 can't shoot either.

I think the issue with Splitter is that he can't spread the floor AND he doesn't have great hands in the paint.

So he can"t help Parker when he drive, cant' make layup and can't find the 3 points shooters. With Blair, Parker can make a bounce pass in the paint and Blair take care of the rest.

So maybe pop doesn't want a Duncan-Splitter pair to not kill Parker's drives.

[TheSkeptic]

And Blair in 2011 and 2012 can't shoot either.

I think the issue with Splitter is that he can't spread the floor AND he doesn't have great hands in the paint.

So he can"t help Parker when he drive, cant' make layup and can't find the 3 points shooters. With Blair, Parker can make a bounce pass in the paint and Blair take care of the rest.

So maybe pop doesn't want a Duncan-Splitter pair to not kill Parker's drives.

Tiago has his flaws but not being able to catch isn't really one of them. He plays the pick and roll really well with Parker. The "can't play two centers" theory is a lot more plausible to me even if I think it's hogwash.

[eric365]

Tiago has his flaws but not being able to catch isn't really one of them. He plays the pick and roll really well with Parker. The "can't play two centers" theory is a lot more plausible to me even if I think it's hogwash.

He can play pick and roll for sure. Especially when he roll and catch the ball 10 feet away of the rim
But he is not really good at fighting to catch a ball under the rim and finish it. Blair is

[TheSkeptic]

He can play pick and roll for sure. Especially when he roll and catch the ball 10 feet away of the rim
But he is not really good at fighting to catch a ball under the rim and finish it. Blair is

Gonna have to disagree. He can't always catch in traffic (who can?) or when the ball is thrown by his knees while he's running but he's actually got very good hands and he finishes at a significantly better rate than Blair.

The"two centers"/"Duncan and Tiago play in the same spots" excuse is probably the real reason behind all of this and most likely that'll change come next season after Pop realizes that they can play together but just need a little more practice.

[jestersmash]

Hollinger chimed in on the Splitter-Duncan pair in a recent ESPN chat yesterday -

Mark (texas)
Isn't it inevitable that Pop will enventually need to use Duncan and Splitter against the lakers if they meet in the playoffs?

John Hollinger
I have been baffled all year at how little burn Spitter is getting because he's played extremely well in his chances, and while the Spurs have rebounded well on the season they were brutalized by the Lakers the other night. Will be very interested to see if they counter Gasol-Bynum with Splitter- Duncan, because Blair and Bonner just don't have the size.

[rmt]

And Blair in 2011 and 2012 can't shoot either.

I think the issue with Splitter is that he can't spread the floor AND he doesn't have great hands in the paint.

So he can"t help Parker when he drive, cant' make layup and can't find the 3 points shooters. With Blair, Parker can make a bounce pass in the paint and Blair take care of the rest.

So maybe pop doesn't want a Duncan-Splitter pair to not kill Parker's drives.

Splitter has no problems catching Manu's passes in the paint, and I would say that Manu's passes have a lot more "sauce" on them than Parker's. We've seen Splitter successfully pick and roll with Manu, Parker, Neal and even SJax. Besides, it's not like Splitter has "hands of stone" like Nazr and yet Pop played Nazr in the Finals. Yes, Tiago's hands aren't as good as Duncan's, but which big man's are?

IMO, it's not any of these things. It's that Pop is in love with his current offensive theory and its "spreading the floor". He's got something against young, mobile 7fters (see Ian who is a perfectly serviceable big man on a cheap contract and Tiago). He has given up on defense winning championships and is gung-ho on "scoring." To play Splitter more would be an admission that everything the Spurs have done since 07 is based on the wrong theory and he's just too stubborn and arrogant to do that. Why else would he not even attempt to try TD/Tiago when every sane, logical person can see that it might be the solution to all the problems the Spurs have with big front-lines?

[eric365]

Splitter has no problems catching Manu's passes in the paint, and I would say that Manu's passes have a lot more "sauce" on them than Parker's. We've seen Splitter successfully pick and roll with Manu, Parker, Neal and even SJax. Besides, it's not like Splitter has "hands of stone" like Nazr and yet Pop played Nazr in the Finals. Yes, Tiago's hands aren't as good as Duncan's, but which big man's are?

IMO, it's not any of these things. It's that Pop is in love with his current offensive theory and its "spreading the floor". He's got something against young, mobile 7fters (see Ian who is a perfectly serviceable big man on a cheap contract and Tiago). He has given up on defense winning championships and is gung-ho on "scoring." To play Splitter more would be an admission that everything the Spurs have done since 07 is based on the wrong theory and he's just too stubborn and arrogant to do that. Why else would he not even attempt to try TD/Tiago when every sane, logical person can see that it might be the solution to all the problems the Spurs have with big front-lines?

In 2005 the offense was : Give the ball to Duncan, wait for double team and you had your open 3pts shooters
In 2012, the double team to have open 3pts shooters comes when Parker drive into the paint

It's not the same thing.

And I don't understand why the reason would be only spreading the floor when Blair is the starter with Duncan

[therealtruth]

Gonna have to disagree. He can't always catch in traffic (who can?) or when the ball is thrown by his knees while he's running but he's actually got very good hands and he finishes at a significantly better rate than Blair.

The"two centers"/"Duncan and Tiago play in the same spots" excuse is probably the real reason behind all of this and most likely that'll change come next season after Pop realizes that they can play together but just need a little more practice.

Tiago catches the ball high and keeps it high and finishes with a high percentage dunk or layup. Blair catches the pass and throws up a circus shot. I'd rather have Tiago.

[Obstructed_View]

Btw, this is just such a lazy argument. If you're going to base your entire opinion of the Spurs on how they played last year against the Grizzlies and nothing that came before or after, then you should

A) Absolutely hate Tony Parker
B) Absolutely hate Tim Duncan
C) Absolutely hate Tiago Splitter
D) Love DeJuan Blair, since he was the only one besides Manu who had a positive +/-

It was one bad series of 6 games. Randolph played the by far the best basketball of his life (basically it was his '05 Ginobili postseason). He was making threes and basically everything he threw up went in. He and the Grizzlies got on a roll and everything that could go wrong for the Spurs, did. There are things called small-sample-sizes. Let it go.

You really need to take this argument and stick it in your ass. We know you have a fucking hard-on for Matt Bonner, but you're just making yourself look stupid. Everyone abused Bonner in the Memphis series, just like they did before the Memphis series and did after the Memphis series. There are things called gigantic-sample-sizes.

[Obstructed_View]

AND he doesn't have great hands in the paint.

:lol

[rmt]

And I don't understand why the reason would be only spreading the floor when Blair is the starter with Duncan

Spreading the floor explains Bonner. Nothing logical explains Blair when Splitter does everything better than Blair - hence the bizarre guess that he has something against young, mobile 7fters like Ian and Splitter. For Splitter to play 15 and 13 minutes against LAL and MEM is inexcusable. It's like Tiago is an afterthought.

[TheSkeptic]

In 2005 the offense was : Give the ball to Duncan, wait for double team and you had your open 3pts shooters
In 2012, the double team to have open 3pts shooters comes when Parker drive into the paint

It's not the same thing.

And I don't understand why the reason would be only spreading the floor when Blair is the starter with Duncan

The truth is, Pop is making a mistake putting all his eggs in the Bonner basket and it'll probably come back to haunt us at some point or another. It's probably for the best that we know now so that we have some time to prepare emotionally ahead of the playoffs.

[therealtruth]

Splitter has no problems catching Manu's passes in the paint, and I would say that Manu's passes have a lot more "sauce" on them than Parker's. We've seen Splitter successfully pick and roll with Manu, Parker, Neal and even SJax. Besides, it's not like Splitter has "hands of stone" like Nazr and yet Pop played Nazr in the Finals. Yes, Tiago's hands aren't as good as Duncan's, but which big man's are?

IMO, it's not any of these things. It's that Pop is in love with his current offensive theory and its "spreading the floor". He's got something against young, mobile 7fters (see Ian who is a perfectly serviceable big man on a cheap contract and Tiago). He has given up on defense winning championships and is gung-ho on "scoring." To play Splitter more would be an admission that everything the Spurs have done since 07 is based on the wrong theory and he's just too stubborn and arrogant to do that. Why else would he not even attempt to try TD/Tiago when every sane, logical person can see that it might be the solution to all the problems the Spurs have with big front-lines?

Can you imagine our rotation if we had Splitter and Ian? We'd have a pretty good frontcourt.

[eric365]

:lol

What I meant was catching low ball under the rim and finish.
When he receive the ball high, no problem. When it's a bounce pass right under the rim, Blair is way better IMO

[rmt]

That LA game was not only missing Kobe but as Bynum told the commentator, "Man, I shot like shit" going 7/20 for 35% instead of this year's average of 56.4%.

Caught some of the DEN/LAL game last night, and Bynum's got some serious post game to go along with that size and athleticism - KAJ taught him well - he has a really nice hook shot from both sides. I was proud of DEN's players who kept attacking the paint and going at Bynum - unlike the scared/intimidated Spurs. Unfortunately some horrendous officiating (of course) turned it in LAL's favor.

[jestersmash]

You really need to take this argument and stick it in your ass. We know you have a fucking hard-on for Matt Bonner, but you're just making yourself look stupid. Everyone abused Bonner in the Memphis series, just like they did before the Memphis series and did after the Memphis series. There are things called gigantic-sample-sizes.

I think his hard-on for using +/- as the single stat to support his (albeit facetious) claim that we should "love DeJuan Blair" is far more troubling and embarrassing (for him), tbh.

His main argument with Bonner thus far has been that he feels Bonner receives a disproportionate amount of hate for the Memphis series compared to his actual level of performance. While I think this is an utterly useless and fruitless argument for him to defend, it's not an offensive one because the bar for what constitutes "appropriate" level of forum hate given a certain level of performance is totally arbitrary.

Consistently using +/- as the single go-to stat in these types of scenarios....I'm really just at a loss for words.

[SenorSpur]

Can you imagine our rotation if we had Splitter and Ian? We'd have a pretty good frontcourt.

Amen!

:toast

[therealtruth]

That LA game was not only missing Kobe but as Bynum told the commentator, "Man, I shot like shit" going 7/20 for 35% instead of this year's average of 56.4%.

Caught some of the DEN/LAL game last night, and Bynum's got some serious post game to go along with that size and athleticism - KAJ taught him well - he has a really nice hook shot from both sides. I was proud of DEN's players who kept attacking the paint and going at Bynum - unlike the scared/intimidated Spurs. Unfortunately some horrendous officiating (of course) turned it in LAL's favor.

He probably could have dropped a 30-20 game on us if he had hit his shots.

[rmt]

Can you imagine our rotation if we had Splitter and Ian? We'd have a pretty good frontcourt.

Splitter's probably going to end up somewhere else in Texas as Scola and Ian did. I won't blame him one bit considering Pop's piss-poor management of him.

[pgardn]

Hollinger chimed in on the Splitter-Duncan pair in a recent ESPN chat yesterday -

Mark (texas)
Isn't it inevitable that Pop will enventually need to use Duncan and Splitter against the lakers if they meet in the playoffs?

John Hollinger
I have been baffled all year at how little burn Spitter is getting because he's played extremely well in his chances, and while the Spurs have rebounded well on the season they were brutalized by the Lakers the other night. Will be very interested to see if they counter Gasol-Bynum with Splitter- Duncan, because Blair and Bonner just don't have the size.

If Hollinger is using the same reasoning as his rankings...

*crinkle* trash

[Russ]

I had this premonition.

Guess what the starting lineup is gonna be for the Spurs against the Lakers Tuesday night?

Leonard, Parker, Green, Duncan and . . .

Splitter. (The only one I'm not sure about is Duncan.)

Why? Because it's just how Pop operates. When you least expect it, he loves to do it.

To confound, to infuriate and, most of all, to show whose in charge and who cannot be understood or predicted.

As Patton said when the other Allied generals scoffed at his hunch that the German army might try an implausible "Hail Mary" offensive through the heart of the Ardennes forest (in the movie version):

"Never has an army attempted such an offensive through such impossible terrain in the dead of winter. No sane commander would even consider it. And that's why I think it's exactly what they'll do."

(Of course, unlike Patton, my premonitions rarely come true.:depressed)

As I was saying . . . :toast

[thOOdee]

good one

[Rummpd]

Pop CIA like usual - good move win or lose to change up the lineups vs. LAL