What the Spurs related media WON'T TELL YOU about Splitter

[objective]

They won't tell you about just how good Tiago Splitter is. They don't want you to know.

And I mean the EN, the SA tv media (eg Don Harris telling people last playoffs that Splitter couldn't evey play), and sites like 48 Minutes of Hell (who have posted 2 pro Bonner articles the past week, routinely ride Bonner's jock, and routinely mock or belittle the notion of more time for Splitter going back through last year). Hell, they'll go to the ends of the earth digging up regular season Bonner stats to defend him while ignoring the postseason, it's just what they do.

So what aren't they telling you?

By every measure, Tiago Splitter has been just as good as Marc Gasol.

Here's how:

Going back to last year's playoffs for comparison:

Splitter had identical per 36 rebound numbers as Marc Gasol

A near identical TRB% as Gasol

A slightly better PER than Gasol (21.1 to 18.9)

He shot better than Gasol (62.5 to 51.1)

Per 36, he scored 14.4 compared to Gasol's 13.5

the only strong advantage where Gasol decimated Splitter was in blocks (per 36 = Gasol 1.9 to Splitter's 0.7)

Splitter and Gasol also had identical Offensive and Defensive Ratings for the playoffs.

Other differences: Gasol much better at steals, Splitter at assists

Splitter the better defensive rebounder, Gasol offensive

-------------

So what's going on this season? (stats from basketball-reference.com, their numbers can be a little different on advanced stats, but I'll use if as the sole source for both players)

per 36 minutes

Splitter

pts 16.9
rbs 9.7
blks 1.5
fg% .617

Gasol

pts 14.4
rbs 9.1
blks 1.8
fg% .479

ADVANCED STATS

Splitter

PER 20.1
TRB% 15.3%
BLK% 3.1%

Gasol

PER 18.1
TRB% 14.7%
BLK% 4.0%

-----

So what does this all mean? For one, would Pop give the same limited minutes to Gasol if he was on this team instead of Splitter? YES, sadly.

And if he played Gasol as Splitter, would the Spurs-related media try to convince fans that the people who wanted Gasol to play more were hyper-ventilating, panic-attack suffering fools? YES, sadly.

Would the media stay silent, or even act as accomplices as Pop made bizarre, refutable claims about Gasol being struck down by injury the year before? YES, sadly.


----

Splitter is good, DAMN good. The type of good that should be generating a plenty of media coverage over his lack of time.

Even if the media won't tell you.

[BOHOLANO#21]

:toast

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The only thing you've missed is that all NBA coaches are also in the grand conspiracy as they voted Gasol over Tiago for the All Star game.

[Horse]

This is some crazy shit, I just don't get it. The only explanation would be if he's planning to use him as some kind of secret weapon if he doesn't he truly is nuts.

[dunkman]

This is some crazy shit, I just don't get it. The only explanation would be if he's planning to use him as some kind of secret weapon if he doesn't he truly is nuts.

[jiggy_55]

This is some crazy shit, I just don't get it. The only explanation would be if he's planning to use him as some kind of secret weapon if he doesn't he truly is nuts.

Lol there is no secret weapon, Pop's decisions with Splitter's minutes are mind boggling this season.

[SA210]

F Pop!

[Supreme_Being]

i thinks thyre both 27 too.

good article. im curious about timvps opinion on this one.

[T Park]

Yeah it's one giant conspiracy

[Dex]

CIA Pop?

More like MIA Pop.

[Blake]

So it's Media! that is keeping Splitter from getting more minutes?

Then we need a younger and less crazy Media!. Fire Media!!

[8FOR!3]

I mean, I guess you could say the two are comparable. If I can remember, it seems to me Marc Gasol has the more reliable midrange shot. Which could explain the shooting percentage difference somewhat, IF he takes more midrange shots. At the same time, Splitter was an extremely efficient scorer early on this season, so it's hard to call those #'s fluky.

Wait til Pop's retired though. He's won us 4 championships and has kept us a playoff contender (even if we aren't always an elite one) every year he's been coaching. I'm sure the next young coach isn't going to come along and do such a fine job. It's the regular season, he's winning games with Blair starting. So maybe Pop feels it's good for Blair's confidence to start. Last year he was benched for McDyess when the playoffs started. Maybe we're benching him for Diaw/Splitter come playoff time. If not I don't really know what Pop's thinking, but I trust that it's better than what any of us could come up with. Otherwise we'd be NBA coaches.

[Warlord23]

IMO Pop has made up his mind on this - he wants to win using the system that failed him last year, to prove that last year was a fluke.

I hope it works, but I won't be surprised to see Tiago suddenly playing alongside TD and getting more minutes if we fall behind 1-2 in our first or second round series. That would be a continuation of Pop's policy over the last few years: be obstinate and stick to your plan through the regular season, only to abandon it when defeat stares him in the face in the playoffs.
- Exhibit A, keep running Mason at point and nailing Hill to the bench till we fell way behind in the Mavs series. Plays Hill as a last resort when it was too late.
- Exhibit B, Making Splitter a spectator throughout the year, till we get overpowered by the Grizzlies bigs, then finally playing Splitter as a desperation tactic in game 4

[acoelho1]

I'm not much for conspiracies but I do think Splitter's lack of minutes is to protect Duncan's status as the primary big. If Splitter received 30 mins a night, you would see his stats rank quite favorably with Gasol and other top bigs in the league. I don't really need stats to see that the team looks better when he is out on the court and in my opinion, the offense should run through Splitter and let Duncan focus on rebounding and protecting the rim.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm not much for conspiracies but I do think Splitter's lack of minutes is to protect Duncan's status as the primary big. If Splitter received 30 mins a night, you would see his stats rank quite favorably with Gasol and other top bigs in the league. I don't really need stats to see that the team looks better when he is out on the court and in my opinion, the offense should run through Splitter and let Duncan focus on rebounding and protecting the rim.

LOL Splitter can't score unassisted to save his life, he's not in Duncan's league, even a 36 year old Duncan.

[Solid D]

Player.........Efficiency...Eff/48M

Paul Gasol........23.1.........29.65
Tiago Splitter....12.1........ 30.05
Matt Bonner.....8.3...........19.22

:stirpot:

[Splits]

This thread is so much fail. It's like one of the right-wing knuckledragger email chains where Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist lover and Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Absolutely ridiculous that there is some kind of media conspiracy. Get a life.

[Keepin' it real]

They won't tell you about just how good Tiago Splitter is. They don't want you to know. ...

By every measure, Tiago Splitter has been just as good as Marc Gasol. ...

First, stats can be very misleading. (Reference: the moderator's posting of stats that indicate how "good" Bonner is.) :rollin

Second, do you really want the media to address this issue, are do you just want to complain to fellow spurstalkers? If you really want to get the media's attention, make it difficult for them to ignore you. Why not start an email/facebook/twitter campaign where all spurstalkers with the same opinion on this topic can bombard relevant media outlets and/or individual reporters?

I think the most influential person you can contact -- not to actually do anything about Tiago's playing time, but to at least make your concerns more publicly known -- is Skip Bayless.

Although he is a Spurs fan, he pulls no punches and as recently as last week called out Pop for maybe being too smart for his own good (regarding resting players at the risk of killing momentum, the team's shot at HCA, etc.) Plus, he seems to really like Tiago and seems to get a rise out of being bashed every time he brings up Tiago's name on the show.

Why don't you all write compelling arguments to Skip and ask him to be a spurstalk ambassador? Even though it seems that spurstalk members hate Skip, I believe he's your best shot of getting your concerns aired by anyone in the media, and the best thing is that it would happen on ESPN.

Good luck.

[100%duncan]

:pop:

[GSH]

It's pretty obvious that the media and the NBA are mad at him for masterminding that 9/11 thing. :rolleyes

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Conspiracy? No.

Are the local media individually afraid of rocking the boat in order to keep their access and their jobs? Yes. Isn't that universally agreed?

[Fireball]

First, stats can be very misleading.

True ... Marc Gasol actually plays 36 minutes on a regular basis ... Tiago does not and looks tired oftentimes ... still I think he should play 30 minutes a night, I think he would get used to it again

[Mel_13]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18691147.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

True ... Marc Gasol actually plays 36 minutes on a regular basis ... Tiago does not and looks tired oftentimes ... still I think he should play 30 minutes a night, I think he would get used to it againAgain?

The numbers have been crunched elsewhere, but playing that much that often would be unprecedented for Splitter. He could play more than he currently does, I just don't know how much....

And lol conspiracy.

[rmt]

First, stats can be very misleading. (Reference: the moderator's posting of stats that indicate how "good" Bonner is.) :rollin

Second, do you really want the media to address this issue, are do you just want to complain to fellow spurstalkers? If you really want to get the media's attention, make it difficult for them to ignore you. Why not start an email/facebook/twitter campaign where all spurstalkers with the same opinion on this topic can bombard relevant media outlets and/or individual reporters?

I think the most influential person you can contact -- not to actually do anything about Tiago's playing time, but to at least make your concerns more publicly known -- is Skip Bayless.

Although he is a Spurs fan, he pulls no punches and as recently as last week called out Pop for maybe being too smart for his own good (regarding resting players at the risk of killing momentum, the team's shot at HCA, etc.) Plus, he seems to really like Tiago and seems to get a rise out of being bashed every time he brings up Tiago's name on the show.

Why don't you all write compelling arguments to Skip and ask him to be a spurstalk ambassador? Even though it seems that spurstalk members hate Skip, I believe he's your best shot of getting your concerns aired by anyone in the media, and the best thing is that it would happen on ESPN.

Good luck.

I'll sign a petition or whatever if some one creates it (I'm too old and technology-challenged:lol).

[YODA]

Amazes me how people mess around with stats to make people look good. Heads up, if Splitter played as as many minutes as Gasol, he wouldnt have nearly as good starts.

TD's points per minutes are as good as he was 10 years ago, but noone will say he is anyhwhere near as good as he was then.

[Fabbs]

Fine post by the OP.

And yes local SA media cowers at the thought of crossing Popped. Sent most all of them emails last year. Of the responses i got, the only one addressing the Bonbon issue said....i kid you not....."the coaches tell us he plays in the playoffs because he spreads the floor".

Wouldn't touch the Splitter question other then the one 'tard who thinks Splitter sucks. (Don Harris i think).

[Fabbs]

Amazes me how people mess around with stats to make people look good. Heads up, if Splitter played as as many minutes as Gasol, he wouldnt have nearly as good starts.

TD's points per minutes are as good as he was 10 years ago, but noone will say he is anyhwhere near as good as he was then.
That's because points per minute is merely one stat.
Defense etc.
Timmy Dunks is no where near his 2001-2007 MVP run.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you go to the "people who don't support millionaires but think they have influence over local sports teams anyway" meeting?

[cheguevara]

I'd like to add to the conspiracy theory. Splitter recently comparing Euro game vs. NBA game said in Europe it's all about the game, in America you have a lot of bullshit going on during timeouts/halftimes. It's more like a 3 ring circus.

I think he is being punished by the Spurs and league for his comments.

:smokin

[Bill_Brasky]

IIRC, Splitter/Duncan doesn't space the floor enough or some shit.

But neither does Blair/Duncan. Splitter can do everything Blair can do and a whole lot more, he's smarter, and he's the size of a legit center. I just don't fucking get it, Pop.

[Solid D]

I'd like to add to the conspiracy theory. Splitter recently comparing Euro game vs. NBA game said in Europe it's all about the game, in America you have a lot of bull**** going on during timeouts/halftimes. It's more like a 3 ring circus.

I think he is being punished by the Spurs and league for his comments.

:smokin

I would be interested in seeing that quote or interview (link). I saw the brief Q&A Fastbreak with Tiago on Spurs.com. He said there was so much entertainment and so much going on that sometimes people forget to cheer but not here in San Antonio.

[TDMVPDPOY]

splitter aint no secret weapon for pops....his secret weapon is clearing the bench with the white flag i surrender come into my ass

[ChumpDumper]

I would be interested in seeing that quote or interview (link).You'll never get one from che.

[EVAY]

I think we will know something in tomorrow's game against L.A.

If Pop doesn't play Splitter big minutes so he can learn to guard Bynum without fouling out, I don't think we stand a chance against L.A. in the playoffs.

Bynum is playing at such a high level right now that no team has an answer for him, imo, unless they have two bigs at the same time. Tim is not strong enough to stop Bynum, but he is effective against Gasol and they can both (Tim and Gasol) spend more time away from the basket guarding each other and shooting from there.

But if Tim is away from the basket, the Lakers will (and should) just dump it in to Bynum and he can score and rebound at will against us (as he did the last game). Yesterday's game against Dallas showed Hayward doing a decent job against him (Bynum still dominated but not as much as against us) and if we don't have something like that we will lose every game against them.

[EVAY]

I would be interested in seeing that quote or interview (link). I saw the brief Q&A Fastbreak with Tiago on Spurs.com. He said there was so much entertainment and so much going on that sometimes people forget to cheer but not here in San Antonio.

Well, I think he is right about the game vs. the distractions during times-out and between quarters. When I used to go to games it used to make me irritable because it is so clearly geared to a stereotype of the ADD American sports fan who cannot tolerate being left to their own imaginations for two whole minutes...so they come out with idiotic contests sponsored by Spurs' sponsors or part-owners who get their name in front of the fans in return for some classless 'entertainment'.

My favorite was always the Whatabuger contests where the winner would get a year's worth of free Whataburger, and the runner -up would, I always imagined, get 2 years of free Whataburger.

[FkLA]

To add insult to injury, Tiagos minutes in the month of April (excluding the game at Salt Lake City):

17
14
11
17
15
13

He averages 19 mpg for the season, yet hasnt hit that mark once this month. His minutes are decreasing instead of increasing going into the postseason. Diaw for instance has played 20+ minutes four times this month and less than 17 minutes only once. Given his ridiculously efficient production when hes out there and the fact that hes been in the system longer than Diaw, it just makes no sense.

:pctoss

[FkLA]

Also I wouldnt claim that theres a media conspiracy against him. But its obvious that the local media fears Pop, theyre scared to question his decisions.

[Texas_Ranger]

Splitter is good?? OMG is that really a fucking surprise... Pop is just an idiot.

[EVAY]

Also I wouldnt claim that theres a media conspiracy against him. But its obvious that the local media fears Pop, theyre scared to question his decisions.

They are in fact afraid of him with good reason. The last reporter who 'took on' the Spurs management and coaching got fired.

Even the national media is afraid of getting insulted by him....because he never misses a chance to insult them if at all possible.

[silverblk mystix]

I think we will know something in tomorrow's game against L.A.

If Pop doesn't play Splitter big minutes so he can learn to guard Bynum without fouling out, I don't think we stand a chance against L.A. in the playoffs.

Bynum is playing at such a high level right now that no team has an answer for him, imo, unless they have two bigs at the same time. Tim is not strong enough to stop Bynum, but he is effective against Gasol and they can both (Tim and Gasol) spend more time away from the basket guarding each other and shooting from there.

But if Tim is away from the basket, the Lakers will (and should) just dump it in to Bynum and he can score and rebound at will against us (as he did the last game). Yesterday's game against Dallas showed Hayward doing a decent job against him (Bynum still dominated but not as much as against us) and if we don't have something like that we will lose every game against them.

:pop:"These are, by far, the funniest posters..guys who somehow think that if I haven't done this for two years, that I will magically change course and suddenly do it in the playoffs....:lmao:lmao...oh yeah...and those CIA Pop guys....:lmao...they slay me too!"

[Spurs4#5]

i thinks thyre both 27 too.

good article. im curious about timvps opinion on this one.
get off his nuts and form your own opinion

[timvp]

I've been on the Splitter bandwagon for a while now so I agree with most of the OP. I'm surprised Splitter hasn't gotten more pub due to his impressive stats. Even Hollinger, the ultimate PER lover, hasn't been very vocal about what Splitter is doing. BTW, since Splitter's return from the back spams, his PER is ~27 :wow

For the record, I do think both Gasols are another level above Splitter. He could probably get there eventually but right now he's not there yet. He doesn't yet have the all-around feel for the game and is more of a niche player. But that said, as long as he eventually gets minutes and can avoid injuries, Splitter has a decent chance of being an All-Star before all is said and done.

As for the media, it's a combination of things. The E-N gets to be close to the team as long as they don't rock the boat very much, so they wouldn't dare to go out of their way to critique a coaching decision. As far as the local news guys, they don't care enough (or know enough) to do anything other than fluff ... especially since the average Spurs fan probably doesn't even know who Splitter is. The smaller media outlets have a difficult enough time getting press credentials as it is so they aren't going to go out of their way to cause any commotion.

Regarding 48MoH, they get their credentials through ESPN so they're pretty safe. And as far as I know, they're free to have any opinion they want. With them, I think it's just their opinion that Pop is playing his cards right with regards to Splitter. Can't really fault them for having an opinion, tbh.

[Fabbs]

Also I wouldnt claim that theres a media conspiracy against him. But its obvious that the local media fears Pop, theyre scared to question his decisions.
Yep. The person to bring up "conspiracy" was uber Pop nuttrider T-Park.
Not the OP.

[smaka]

I have a little feeling that if Tiago got more minutes to play, for example if someone of our bigs got injured (I hope not, of course, but...), he could've exploded the way Goran Dragic did after Lowry was out. He's good baller, just needs to get more opportunity, but yeah, tell Pop that.

[GSH]

Next thing you know, they'll force Splitter to play baseball.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/114/241/291313_crop_650x440.jpg?1333994979

[DJB]

Amazes me how people mess around with stats to make people look good. Heads up, if Splitter played as as many minutes as Gasol, he wouldnt have nearly as good starts.

TD's points per minutes are as good as he was 10 years ago, but noone will say he is anyhwhere near as good as he was then.

Solid point, tbh.

[Solid D]

Splitter needs an elbow jumper. If not, players like Bynum, the Gasols, Ibaka will continue to hang back 2-3 ft inside the FT line on screen/rolls.

[Keepin' it real]

I'll sign a petition or whatever if some one creates it (I'm too old and technology-challenged:lol).

Ha. I don't care to create a petition or start a "Play Tiago more" movement because:



I don't think it's a critical issue. (Bonner's playing time is THE critical issue and is what will kill this team, not Tiago's lack of playing time. Any combo of Blair/Diaw/Jackson/Splitter would be superior to Bonner.)
It would be pointless because it won't lead to any changes. Here's why.


As much as I love Tim, I'm afraid he's the primary reason for Tiago's lack of playing time. I believe Tim (prideful, prima donna, whatever you want to call it) still wants to be THE GUY in the middle and doesn't want to share the stage with Tiago. That's the best explanation I can think of as to why they never play at the same time. I don't buy the "Pop's a moron" argument or "he doesn't spread the floor" BS.

Although Tim's no longer MVP or all-star level, he's still good enough that Pop can allow Tim to continue to be the guy, at the expense of playing time for Tiago. And because of their loyalty to one another, this will continue to be the case as long as Tim can put up acceptable numbers.

[CubanMustGo]

As much as I love Tim, I'm afraid he's the primary reason for Tiago's lack of playing time. I believe Tim (prideful, prima donna, whatever you want to call it) still wants to be THE GUY in the middle and doesn't want to share the stage with Tiago. That's the best explanation I can think of as to why they never play at the same time. I don't buy the "Pop's a moron" argument or "he doesn't spread the floor" BS.

Although Tim's no longer MVP or all-star level, he's still good enough that Pop can allow Tim to continue to be the guy, at the expense of playing time for Tiago. And because of their loyalty to one another, this will continue to be the case as long as Tim can put up acceptable numbers.

Yes, Tim is known around the league for his greedy, prima donna ways. :rolleyes

[Mugen]

I think we will know something in tomorrow's game against L.A.

If Pop doesn't play Splitter big minutes so he can learn to guard Bynum without fouling out, I don't think we stand a chance against L.A. in the playoffs.



Hate to spoil tomorrow for you, E, but Pop isn't going to play him big minutes tomorrow nor in the playoffs. Maybe if the Spurs are down 3-1 or Bonner gets hurt, but it's highly unlikely in any other scenario.

Pop will trot out his JV bigs who'll front and do the best they can to not be murdered by Gasol/Bynum. But they will be. Only a fool would think otherwise.
And this is assuming Pop doesn’t wave the white flag before the game even starts.

Tiago homers will bitch/moan about it. Pop apologists will say that Tiago can’t handle big minutes or that he wouldn’t be of much help anyways.

Then we’ll do the same thing next year.

Who cares. Like it or not, this team is gonna ride or die with Matthew Robert Bonner.

[silverblk mystix]

Hate to spoil tomorrow for you, E, but Pop isn't going to play him big minutes tomorrow nor in the playoffs. Maybe if the Spurs are down 3-1 or Bonner gets hurt, but it's highly unlikely in any other scenario.

Pop will trot out his JV bigs who'll front and do the best they can to not be murdered by Gasol/Bynum. But they will be. Only a fool would think otherwise.
And this is assuming Pop doesn’t wave the white flag before the game even starts.

Tiago homers will bitch/moan about it. Pop apologists will say that Tiago can’t handle big minutes or that he wouldn’t be of much help anyways.

Then we’ll do the same thing next year.

Who cares. Like it or not, this team is gonna ride or die with Matthew Robert Bonner.

This.

Close this thread...it can't be said any better than this.

[benefactor]

Ha. I don't care to create a petition or start a "Play Tiago more" movement because:



I don't think it's a critical issue. (Bonner's playing time is THE critical issue and is what will kill this team, not Tiago's lack of playing time. Any combo of Blair/Diaw/Jackson/Splitter would be superior to Bonner.)
It would be pointless because it won't lead to any changes. Here's why.


As much as I love Tim, I'm afraid he's the primary reason for Tiago's lack of playing time. I believe Tim (prideful, prima donna, whatever you want to call it) still wants to be THE GUY in the middle and doesn't want to share the stage with Tiago. That's the best explanation I can think of as to why they never play at the same time. I don't buy the "Pop's a moron" argument or "he doesn't spread the floor" BS.

Although Tim's no longer MVP or all-star level, he's still good enough that Pop can allow Tim to continue to be the guy, at the expense of playing time for Tiago. And because of their loyalty to one another, this will continue to be the case as long as Tim can put up acceptable numbers.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Solid D]

Pop views Tiago as Timmy's backup. This one is not on Timmy.

[Keepin' it real]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Well, that's the good thing about forums like this. You disagree with what I said, and I disagree with what you said.

A prideful Tim Duncan is just as plausible a reason for Tiago's lack of playing time as anything else that's been discussed on here (specifically "Pop's a moron" or "Tiago doesn't spread the floor.") In fact, I find those two arguments to be much more "idiotic" than the realistic possibility that the greatest power forward of all time has an ego and still wants to do the bulk of the work.

The bottom line is neither one of us is right or wrong, and we're both entitled to our opinions. One of us just expresses his opinion with a little more tact than the other. :hat

[Keepin' it real]

Pop views Tiago as Timmy's backup. This one is not on Timmy.

I've argued this point too in other threads, and it's probably the closest thing to the truth.

One of several alternate theories could be that Tim wants to keep on being the man in the middle, and Pop is obliging and therefore viewing Tiago as a backup PF instead of a starting center.

[ChumpDumper]

I've argued this point too in other threads, and it's probably the closest thing to the truth.

One of several alternate theories could be that Tim wants to keep on being the man in the middle, and Pop is obliging and therefore viewing Tiago as a backup PF instead of a starting center.Pretty much the least probable theory presented.

[dbestpro]

Pop in view of small ball is like the politician who wants to prove they can spend their way out of debt and keeps doing so until there is nothing left to spend.

[biskvito]

http://i.imgur.com/p7HiN.jpg

[Bill_Brasky]

Well, that's the good thing about forums like this. You disagree with what I said, and I disagree with what you said.

A prideful Tim Duncan is just as plausible a reason for Tiago's lack of playing time as anything else that's been discussed on here (specifically "Pop's a moron" or "Tiago doesn't spread the floor.") In fact, I find those two arguments to be much more "idiotic" than the realistic possibility that the greatest power forward of all time has an ego and still wants to do the bulk of the work.

The bottom line is neither one of us is right or wrong, and we're both entitled to our opinions. One of us just expresses his opinion with a little more tact than the other. :hat

Pop would never, EVER let any player have a say in his rotations. Even Tim.

So that's that.

[Mugen]

Well, that's the good thing about forums like this. You disagree with what I said, and I disagree with what you said.

A prideful Tim Duncan is just as plausible a reason for Tiago's lack of playing time as anything else that's been discussed on here (specifically "Pop's a moron" or "Tiago doesn't spread the floor.") In fact, I find those two arguments to be much more "idiotic" than the realistic possibility that the greatest power forward of all time has an ego and still wants to do the bulk of the work.

The bottom line is neither one of us is right or wrong, and we're both entitled to our opinions. One of us just expresses his opinion with a little more tact than the other. :hat

Another example of when Keepin it Real goes wrong.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/deadmorrison66/wutang.jpg

[The ADMIRAL 50]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

:lol :clap :lol

how I have not seen this reference used on ST yet is entirely beyond me, but definitely a well picked spot and picture perfect deployment :tu

[4down]

Hate to spoil tomorrow for you, E, but Pop isn't going to play him big minutes tomorrow nor in the playoffs. Maybe if the Spurs are down 3-1 or Bonner gets hurt, but it's highly unlikely in any other scenario.

Pop will trot out his JV bigs who'll front and do the best they can to not be murdered by Gasol/Bynum. But they will be. Only a fool would think otherwise.
And this is assuming Pop doesn’t wave the white flag before the game even starts.

Tiago homers will bitch/moan about it. Pop apologists will say that Tiago can’t handle big minutes or that he wouldn’t be of much help anyways.

Then we’ll do the same thing next year.

Who cares. Like it or not, this team is gonna ride or die with Matthew Robert Bonner.

As a Tiago homer this is my biggest fear

[Keepin' it real]

"You know, the very fact that you oppose this makes me think I'm onto something." -- Jerry Seinfeld, The Reverse Peephole episode

[HarlemHo 37]

They won't tell you about just how good Tiago Splitter is. They don't want you to know.

And I mean the EN, the SA tv media (eg Don Harris telling people last playoffs that Splitter couldn't evey play), and sites like 48 Minutes of Hell (who have posted 2 pro Bonner articles the past week, routinely ride Bonner's jock, and routinely mock or belittle the notion of more time for Splitter going back through last year). Hell, they'll go to the ends of the earth digging up regular season Bonner stats to defend him while ignoring the postseason, it's just what they do.

So what aren't they telling you?

By every measure, Tiago Splitter has been just as good as Marc Gasol.

Here's how:

Going back to last year's playoffs for comparison:

Splitter had identical per 36 rebound numbers as Marc Gasol

A near identical TRB% as Gasol

A slightly better PER than Gasol (21.1 to 18.9)

He shot better than Gasol (62.5 to 51.1)

Per 36, he scored 14.4 compared to Gasol's 13.5

the only strong advantage where Gasol decimated Splitter was in blocks (per 36 = Gasol 1.9 to Splitter's 0.7)

Splitter and Gasol also had identical Offensive and Defensive Ratings for the playoffs.

Other differences: Gasol much better at steals, Splitter at assists

Splitter the better defensive rebounder, Gasol offensive

-------------

So what's going on this season? (stats from basketball-reference.com, their numbers can be a little different on advanced stats, but I'll use if as the sole source for both players)

per 36 minutes

Splitter

pts 16.9
rbs 9.7
blks 1.5
fg% .617

Gasol

pts 14.4
rbs 9.1
blks 1.8
fg% .479

ADVANCED STATS

Splitter

PER 20.1
TRB% 15.3%
BLK% 3.1%

Gasol

PER 18.1
TRB% 14.7%
BLK% 4.0%

-----

So what does this all mean? For one, would Pop give the same limited minutes to Gasol if he was on this team instead of Splitter? YES, sadly.

And if he played Gasol as Splitter, would the Spurs-related media try to convince fans that the people who wanted Gasol to play more were hyper-ventilating, panic-attack suffering fools? YES, sadly.

Would the media stay silent, or even act as accomplices as Pop made bizarre, refutable claims about Gasol being struck down by injury the year before? YES, sadly.


----

Splitter is good, DAMN good. The type of good that should be generating a plenty of media coverage over his lack of time.

Even if the media won't tell you.



Except one plays against starters and the other against backups. Splitter's numbers would undoubtedly go down and Gasol's up if the role's were reversed. The media isn't hiding anything.

[objective]

Who said anything about a conspiracy? Smearing people as being conspiracy crazies is laughable.

So the question remains, why are you hearing about these Splitter numbers here and not elsewhere? There's a Bonner stats thread, why are you getting those numbers here and not elsewhere?

Here's a glaring example of the media travesty, this one by Mike Monroe of the Express News.

My browser isn't working with the interface, so forgive my manual ubb codes.

Monroe, 04-09-12

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/09/splitter’s-health-key-to-duncan-getting-rest/


“Getting Tiago Splitter back in health this year has helped,” Popovich said. “We didn’t really have him last year, so he’s like an addition to the team.”

Battling various ailments right from the start of his first training camp, Splitter missed 22 games as a Spurs rookie, when he averaged just 12.3 minutes per game.

That is pure garbage from Monroe, acting as an accomplice to Pop's narrative. But maybe that's too harsh. At the very least though, it is not giving the reader context of the reality of the situation for them to make up their own minds.

Here's why (copying most from a post of mine from December when McDonald was also misleading the readers):

Splitter was not injured most of the time, not enough to miss 22 games. Nothing that would have kept him on the bench most of the year. He had a tough year because Pop made it a tough year.

He didn't dress for 9 games if Yahoo's boxes are correct. He was only injured for 9 games. He played 60 and had another 13 non-appearances credited as DNP-CDs, which rings true to my memory. AND in the playoffs he spent the first 3 games with DNP-CDs on the bench.

In addition, of the 60 games he did play, 18 of them were for less than 5:00. If I spent 5-10 minutes going through the play-by-plays, I have no doubt that those minutes would largely be straight garbage time minutes. Even the game in February where he got hurt he had played double digit minutes.

Splitter WAS NOT too injured to play last year. But Pop has said it so many times unchallenged that people on this site believe it. He was even featured saying it on the Spurs segment of that NBA Action show or whatever it was that was on NBAtv this week.

Hell, even Splitter's own words tell that he wasn't injured. Because when he talks about getting more minutes this year, he doesn't reference his own health, but the absence of McDyess:


“I knew this season was important for me, not just because we had to rest Tim, but also because when (Antonio) McDyess decided to retire, I knew I would have to play more and would be more important to the team.

There was also this gem in the piece from Monroe:


Admitting there were times last season when he felt as if he had forgotten how to play, Splitter says he finally feels he is truly part of the team.

Forgotten how to play? I wonder why.

Splitter was NOT too hurt to play last year.

Pop even admitted last season that he wasn't too hurt to play, but wasn't getting time because it "wouldn't be fair to the team".

Yet this season the media is quick to forget all that and spin you all a canard about how Splitter had Ebola and was too weak from blood loss to help the Spurs at all.

Knowing now how the media won't even give you the context of the whole picture about his minutes last season, is it a surprise they won't tell you just how good he is this year or ponder why he doesn't play more?

[Josepatches_]

Yes,Splitter is at least as good as Marc Gasol

He was as good in Spain. And he's not spanish or spaniard or whatever name you use to name us (people from Spain-Europe) but I have no problem to recognize the truth.

He was as dominant as Marc or Scola. Much better than Oberto... better than Lorbek or Ibaka but he improved his game now..... of course better than Asik.......

Yes, I wrote the same a lot of times in the forum.

I can't see the point to open a new thread . We already know it.

[objective]

Regarding 48MoH, they get their credentials through ESPN so they're pretty safe. And as far as I know, they're free to have any opinion they want. With them, I think it's just their opinion that Pop is playing his cards right with regards to Splitter. Can't really fault them for having an opinion, tbh.

I think they're just Bonner lovers, which clouds their judgement on issues that would affect Bonner.

To the point of going appearing on ESPN's NBA Today podcast last year and giving Bonner as the reason why the Spurs would be able to beat the Lakers.

And the numerous Bonner defense articles over and over. And the snarky bits about fans anointing Splitter the savior, but that he wasn't the answer. And on and on and on . . .

[siraulo23]

it's gotten to the point where, the spurs are in a lot of trouble if you see duncan and splitter play together in the POs

[ChumpDumper]

I think they're just Bonner lovers, which clouds their judgement on issues that would affect Bonner.

To the point of going appearing on ESPN's NBA Today podcast last year and giving Bonner as the reason why the Spurs would be able to beat the Lakers.

And the numerous Bonner defense articles over and over. And the snarky bits about fans anointing Splitter the savior, but that he wasn't the answer. And on and on and on . . .Eh, it could be argued that Splitter's success is due in part to playing with Bonner, but both sides are so firmly entrenched now that any actual point will be met with scorn and persecution complexes.

[ElNono]

I understand objective (an excellent poster, IMO) frustration. I think everyone wants to see more of Splitter because the potential seem to be there. And unfortunately another season goes by where he's not given a decidedly more prominent role than Blair or Bonner.

Heck, I suspect Pop ranks Diaw as a more suitable alternative than Tiago at this point.

All that said, there's no single scapegoat and no single savior. Matt isn't the sole reason we're a middle-of-the-pack defensive team and Tiago won't automatically make us a top 5 defensive team. I think if Pop were to turn back the clock and actually decide to make defense a focus again, Tiago getting more minutes at the expense of Bonner and Blair would be part of the solution.

But it's a moot point because this Pop isn't interested in that. He has stated as much and that's where his convictions are nowadays.

[ChumpDumper]

They won't tell you about just how good Tiago Splitter is. They don't want you to know.An objective observer might just think that suggests a conspiracy.

[SA210]

Who said anything about a conspiracy? Smearing people as being conspiracy crazies is laughable.

So the question remains, why are you hearing about these Splitter numbers here and not elsewhere? There's a Bonner stats thread, why are you getting those numbers here and not elsewhere?

Here's a glaring example of the media travesty, this one by Mike Monroe of the Express News.

My browser isn't working with the interface, so forgive my manual ubb codes.

Monroe, 04-09-12

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/09/splitter’s-health-key-to-duncan-getting-rest/ (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/09/splitter%E2%80%99s-health-key-to-duncan-getting-rest/)



That is pure garbage from Monroe, acting as an accomplice to Pop's narrative. But maybe that's too harsh. At the very least though, it is not giving the reader context of the reality of the situation for them to make up their own minds.

Here's why (copying most from a post of mine from December when McDonald was also misleading the readers):

Splitter was not injured most of the time, not enough to miss 22 games. Nothing that would have kept him on the bench most of the year. He had a tough year because Pop made it a tough year.

He didn't dress for 9 games if Yahoo's boxes are correct. He was only injured for 9 games. He played 60 and had another 13 non-appearances credited as DNP-CDs, which rings true to my memory. AND in the playoffs he spent the first 3 games with DNP-CDs on the bench.

In addition, of the 60 games he did play, 18 of them were for less than 5:00. If I spent 5-10 minutes going through the play-by-plays, I have no doubt that those minutes would largely be straight garbage time minutes. Even the game in February where he got hurt he had played double digit minutes.

Splitter WAS NOT too injured to play last year. But Pop has said it so many times unchallenged that people on this site believe it. He was even featured saying it on the Spurs segment of that NBA Action show or whatever it was that was on NBAtv this week.

Hell, even Splitter's own words tell that he wasn't injured. Because when he talks about getting more minutes this year, he doesn't reference his own health, but the absence of McDyess:



There was also this gem in the piece from Monroe:



Forgotten how to play? I wonder why.

Splitter was NOT too hurt to play last year.

Pop even admitted last season that he wasn't too hurt to play, but wasn't getting time because it "wouldn't be fair to the team".

Yet this season the media is quick to forget all that and spin you all a canard about how Splitter had Ebola and was too weak from blood loss to help the Spurs at all.

Knowing now how the media won't even give you the context of the whole picture about his minutes last season, is it a surprise they won't tell you just how good he is this year or ponder why he doesn't play more?

This!

:clap

[Splits]

And the conspiracy continues!!!11 (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/john_schuhmann/04/14/jason-collins-all-stars/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)


Presenting the impactful Jason Collins All-Star team

Posted Apr 14 2012 12:06PM
In determining the value of NBA players, we most often cite their standard boxscore stats, starting with points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. These numbers obviously have value, but the most important numbers in basketball are the ones on the scoreboard. And a guy doesn't need to put up big stats to be a valuable player on his team.

In the 2002-03 season, Jason Collins averaged just 5.7 points and 4.7 rebounds per game. But he had the best per-possession plus-minus on a Finals team. When he was in the game, the Nets outscored their opponents by 7.6 points per 100 possessions.

Collins benefitted from playing most of his minutes with Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson and Kerry Kittles. But he helped those teammates do what they do by playing his role well. On one end of the floor, he was a great interior defender, a great help defender, and kept his man off the glass. On the other end, he ran the offense well, set solid screens, and knew his own limitations.

So while Collins' boxscore stats painted him as one of the worst starting players in the league, the Nets were better both offensively and defensively when he was on the floor.

Nine years later, Collins still has a role in this league, especially when his Atlanta Hawks are playing the Orlando Magic. But an elbow injury has limited him to just 23 games this season. So we'll have to keep him off our list of Jason Collins All-Stars, five guys who have made a difference on the scoreboard, even though their traditional boxscore stats have been underwhelming.

All stats come with the caveat that this has been a wacky season. And plus-minus is a number that's obviously dependent on what teammates you're sharing the floor with. But the following guys have distinguished themselves from the players around them.


Matt Bonner, F, San Antonio
7.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.9 apg, plus-313, +12.9 NetRtg

The Spurs are a unique team and the Red Rocket is a pretty unique player. After leading the league in 3-point percentage last season, he ranks ninth this year. So he clearly has a more distinguishable offensive skill than Collins ever had.

But Bonner's 98 3-pointers (less than two per game) don't exactly account for his ridiculous plus-minus, the highest on the Spurs even though he's played 600 fewer minutes than Tony Parker (who's a plus-284). The Spurs have scored an incredible 112.6 points per 100 possessions with Bonner on the floor.

Of players who have logged at least 500 minutes, only Manu Ginobili (115.8 in 649 minutes) and James Harden (112.8 in 1,805) have a higher on-court offensive rating. In 305 minutes with both Ginobili and Bonner on the floor, the Spurs have scored 126.5 points per 100 possessions, which is out-of-this-word efficient.

[DAF86]

This thread is so much fail. It's like one of the right-wing knuckledragger email chains where Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist lover and Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Absolutely ridiculous that there is some kind of media conspiracy. Get a life.

:lol WTF? "Media conspiracy", or to be more precise, "media agenda" is one of the most common things in life, is right up there with breathing and eating. I'm not saying that's what's happening in this case but I find it funny that you think that "media's conspiracies" are an "absolutely ridiculous" thing to believe.

[DAF86]

And regarding the subject in hand. It's very possible that under any other coach, Tiago would be a 30/35 mpg guy and may even have a Marc Gasol/Anderson Varejao kind of status.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

If tiago had Gasols buttery smoove jumper he'd play 36 minutes a game.

[Splits]

:lol WTF? "Media conspiracy", or to be more precise, "media agenda" is one of the most common things in life, is right up there with breathing and eating. I'm not saying that's what's happening in this case but I find it funny that you think that "media's conspiracies" are an "absolutely ridiculous" thing to believe.

You're right. It is so plausible that reporters from the local newspaper, TV, local sports broadcasters, 48MoH and other nameless, faceless, shady organizations are conspiring to avoid the wrath that will be wrought down on them if they ever ask a question about a 2nd year guy who plays 19+ minutes a game (a 64% increase from last year) and why he is not playing an extra 5 minutes a night. The whole idea is just preposterous. The OP did not say or infer "media bias" or "media agenda" where they frame the story a certain way to appeal to the fans that love the team they're covering, which would be a perfectly valid way to look at it. He said:


They won't tell you about just how good Tiago Splitter is. They don't want you to know.



And if he played Gasol as Splitter, would the Spurs-related media try to convince fans that the people who wanted Gasol to play more were hyper-ventilating, panic-attack suffering fools? YES, sadly.


Would the media stay silent, or even act as accomplices as Pop made bizarre, refutable claims about Gasol being struck down by injury the year before? YES, sadly.

This is black helicopter, tinfoil hat, longform birth certificate, Jews caused 9/11 garbage and should be treated as such.

[ElNono]

Matt Bonner regular season efficiency is off da charts!!!11 (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/john_schuhmann/04/14/jason-collins-all-stars/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

:sleep

You have to wonder how the Spurs ever won 4 rings without such an efficient stretch 4 before...

[Old School 44]

I guess what we can hope for is the Spurs to play at full strength against the Lakers and with the same rotations of game 1 and Bynum has a 20/20 game and Gasol has a 20/15 game. Maybe...just maybe, Pop will see the value of at least attempting to play Duncan/Splitter against big lineups. I have no problem with Duncan/Splitter not being the solution, my issue is Pop not even really attempting this combo to find out.

[ElNono]

You're right. It is so plausible that reporters from the local newspaper, TV, local sports broadcasters, 48MoH and other nameless, faceless, shady organizations are conspiring to avoid the wrath that will be wrought down on them if they ever ask a question about a 2nd year guy who plays 19+ minutes a game (a 64% increase from last year) and why he is not playing an extra 5 minutes a night. The whole idea is just preposterous. The OP did not say or infer "media bias" or "media agenda" where they frame the story a certain way to appeal to the fans that love the team they're covering, which would be a perfectly valid way to look at it. He said:

This is black helicopter, tinfoil hat, longform birth certificate, Jews caused 9/11 garbage and should be treated as such.

Do you agree that Tiago Splitter not getting significant minutes last season had nothing to do with "being healthy"?

[DAF86]

You're right. It is so plausible that reporters from the local newspaper, TV, local sports broadcasters, 48MoH and other nameless, faceless, shady organizations are conspiring to avoid the wrath that will be wrought down on them if they ever ask a question about a 2nd year guy who plays 19+ minutes a game (a 64% increase from last year) and why he is not playing an extra 5 minutes a night. The whole idea is just preposterous. The OP did not say or infer "media bias" or "media agenda" where they frame the story a certain way to appeal to the fans that love the team they're covering, which would be a perfectly valid way to look at it.

Well I don't know if the OP inferred that but the thought of at least some part of the media in San Antonio beign told to not make uncomfortable questions or articles regarding the Spurs organization seems very plausible to me. Again, I'm not saying that's what is happening in this case just that it wouldn't surprise me at all, it happens everywhere.

[therealtruth]

Regarding 48MoH, they get their credentials through ESPN so they're pretty safe. And as far as I know, they're free to have any opinion they want. With them, I think it's just their opinion that Pop is playing his cards right with regards to Splitter. Can't really fault them for having an opinion, tbh.

Those guys lost all credibility when they suggested that Bonner is the secret weapon against LA.

[therealtruth]

I guess what we can hope for is the Spurs to play at full strength against the Lakers and with the same rotations of game 1 and Bynum has a 20/20 game and Gasol has a 20/15 game. Maybe...just maybe, Pop will see the value of at least attempting to play Duncan/Splitter against big lineups. I have no problem with Duncan/Splitter not being the solution, my issue is Pop not even really attempting this combo to find out.

It's the best solution defensively. They just need to make the offense work.

[Splits]

Do you agree that Tiago Splitter not getting significant minutes last season had nothing to do with "being healthy"?

What does this have to do with the original post? The OP barely mentioned anything about injuries until the tail end. He brought it up after the fact, most likely because he was looking for a way out or to deflect away from his claim of a coordinated media campaign to protect the organization and misinform their audience.

Look, reporters suck, don't challenge authority, and let half-truths slip without challenge all the time. That's true not just at a local level or in sports, but at a national level on all kinds of topics. They should be regarded as a despised institution in the form they currently take and if someone wants to present a litany of evidence, then another media organization can act as a check on others. But I haven't seen a lick of evidence for that, and to infer there is some conspiracy, that they are actively concealing information from their readers in a coordinated fashion to make sure a 2nd year player doesn't play more than 20 minutes a game is ridiculous. And that was the thrust of the original post.

To answer your question, I have no idea what extent injuries played. I'm not a Spurs trainer, on their medical staff, or interacting with the players on a daily basis. All we can go on is what is known, which is that he was injured at the beginning of the season and missed camp. I have no idea what his conditioning is like, what his body can take, and whether he himself has a say in how much he plays. However at least I'm willing to admit I don't know, whereas everyone else on this board knows they know more than everyone else! and creates dozens of threads per week to complain about it.

[therealtruth]

Who said anything about a conspiracy? Smearing people as being conspiracy crazies is laughable.

So the question remains, why are you hearing about these Splitter numbers here and not elsewhere? There's a Bonner stats thread, why are you getting those numbers here and not elsewhere?

Here's a glaring example of the media travesty, this one by Mike Monroe of the Express News.

My browser isn't working with the interface, so forgive my manual ubb codes.

Monroe, 04-09-12

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/09/splitter’s-health-key-to-duncan-getting-rest/ (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/04/09/splitter%E2%80%99s-health-key-to-duncan-getting-rest/)



That is pure garbage from Monroe, acting as an accomplice to Pop's narrative. But maybe that's too harsh. At the very least though, it is not giving the reader context of the reality of the situation for them to make up their own minds.

Here's why (copying most from a post of mine from December when McDonald was also misleading the readers):

Splitter was not injured most of the time, not enough to miss 22 games. Nothing that would have kept him on the bench most of the year. He had a tough year because Pop made it a tough year.

He didn't dress for 9 games if Yahoo's boxes are correct. He was only injured for 9 games. He played 60 and had another 13 non-appearances credited as DNP-CDs, which rings true to my memory. AND in the playoffs he spent the first 3 games with DNP-CDs on the bench.

In addition, of the 60 games he did play, 18 of them were for less than 5:00. If I spent 5-10 minutes going through the play-by-plays, I have no doubt that those minutes would largely be straight garbage time minutes. Even the game in February where he got hurt he had played double digit minutes.

Splitter WAS NOT too injured to play last year. But Pop has said it so many times unchallenged that people on this site believe it. He was even featured saying it on the Spurs segment of that NBA Action show or whatever it was that was on NBAtv this week.

Hell, even Splitter's own words tell that he wasn't injured. Because when he talks about getting more minutes this year, he doesn't reference his own health, but the absence of McDyess:



There was also this gem in the piece from Monroe:



Forgotten how to play? I wonder why.

Splitter was NOT too hurt to play last year.

Pop even admitted last season that he wasn't too hurt to play, but wasn't getting time because it "wouldn't be fair to the team".

Yet this season the media is quick to forget all that and spin you all a canard about how Splitter had Ebola and was too weak from blood loss to help the Spurs at all.

Knowing now how the media won't even give you the context of the whole picture about his minutes last season, is it a surprise they won't tell you just how good he is this year or ponder why he doesn't play more?

Somebody should call Pop out on his contradiction. He says last year it wasn't fair to the team to play Splitter then this year he says he was injured all last year. Which one is it?

[TD 21]

I've been on the Splitter bandwagon for a while now so I agree with most of the OP. I'm surprised Splitter hasn't gotten more pub due to his impressive stats. Even Hollinger, the ultimate PER lover, hasn't been very vocal about what Splitter is doing. BTW, since Splitter's return from the back spams, his PER is ~27 :wow

For the record, I do think both Gasols are another level above Splitter. He could probably get there eventually but right now he's not there yet. He doesn't yet have the all-around feel for the game and is more of a niche player. But that said, as long as he eventually gets minutes and can avoid injuries, Splitter has a decent chance of being an All-Star before all is said and done.

As for the media, it's a combination of things. The E-N gets to be close to the team as long as they don't rock the boat very much, so they wouldn't dare to go out of their way to critique a coaching decision. As far as the local news guys, they don't care enough (or know enough) to do anything other than fluff ... especially since the average Spurs fan probably doesn't even know who Splitter is. The smaller media outlets have a difficult enough time getting press credentials as it is so they aren't going to go out of their way to cause any commotion.

Regarding 48MoH, they get their credentials through ESPN so they're pretty safe. And as far as I know, they're free to have any opinion they want. With them, I think it's just their opinion that Pop is playing his cards right with regards to Splitter. Can't really fault them for having an opinion, tbh.

I know. Funny how no one ignored Pekovic, when he was surging. Granted, he was starting and playing significantly more minutes, so his per game averages stood out more, but still. Splitter is the most underrated player in the league and arguably the biggest potential X-factor in the playoffs. As you alluded to, not even amongst stats geeks are his praises constantly sung.

Pau definitely is, though he's either having a down year or is in decline. I would give Marc a slight edge, only because he can do more things, like shoot from mid range, pass from the high post and block shots at a high rate. But unlike Pau, he's not elite at any one thing, so I wouldn't say there's a big gap between them.

Splitter has zero chance of being an All-Star, unless he becomes a near 35 mpg player and a clear cut top two player on a 50 win type team. I don't see any of that happening, let alone all of it. And even if it did, I still think he'd be an extreme long shot.

[ploto]

Splitter is still paying the price for not signing with the Spurs the first time.

[Brazil]

All the story about Tiago not being healthy enough last year was BS. Pop didn't even try to develop him. This year... sooooo frustrating..... I'm sssooooo frustrating...

But I'm already in the acceptance level, OP is in the anger phase, some are in denial (Pop has a master plan to play Tiago 20 mn during the PO) :lol

Tiago will play at best between 10 and 15 mn unless pop pushes the panic bottom.

[ElNono]

What does this have to do with the original post? The OP barely mentioned anything about injuries until the tail end. He brought it up after the fact, most likely because he was looking for a way out or to deflect away from his claim of a coordinated media campaign to protect the organization and misinform their audience.

Look, reporters suck, don't challenge authority, and let half-truths slip without challenge all the time. That's true not just at a local level or in sports, but at a national level on all kinds of topics. They should be regarded as a despised institution in the form they currently take and if someone wants to present a litany of evidence, then another media organization can act as a check on others. But I haven't seen a lick of evidence for that, and to infer there is some conspiracy, that they are actively concealing information from their readers in a coordinated fashion to make sure a 2nd year player doesn't play more than 20 minutes a game is ridiculous. And that was the thrust of the original post.

To answer your question, I have no idea what extent injuries played. I'm not a Spurs trainer, on their medical staff, or interacting with the players on a daily basis. All we can go on is what is known, which is that he was injured at the beginning of the season and missed camp. I have no idea what his conditioning is like, what his body can take, and whether he himself has a say in how much he plays. However at least I'm willing to admit I don't know, whereas everyone else on this board knows they know more than everyone else! and creates dozens of threads per week to complain about it.

It's part of his argument. And the OP certainly expanded on it on a followup post.

I respect your opinion. I just don't agree with it.

[pgardn]

The media does not want us to know how good Splitter really is...


Did they put some mask on that 7 foot Brazilian I saw this year? Have they distracted us at home during moments of brilliance with puppy breath?

Jesus, I too would like to see more playing time. But I think the OP does not want us to know Splitter's limitations. Therefore I call a board conspiracy to quell a conspiracy that does not exist.

1. Tiago has a very tough time around the basket in the post up position. He relies on a hook that is bad to awful unless he gets that up and under move going. Horribly inconsistent down low while posted. One area that requires a more physical nature which I must say has improved from last year.

2. He has zero range. ZERO. As in NIL.

3. He is by far the best while already moving towards the basket, like on a pick and roll. This limits options with him in a huge way.

4. He is not good at picking up junk baskets off offensive rebounds. And his kick outs after an offensive rebound often end up out of bounds or stolen. He is still learning how to set himself properly after coming down with the ball. Elbows out, ball up, take a pivot if there is no available outlet. He rushes or his put back is so slow he gets packed.

5. If Tim really, really thought Splitter was Gasol-level when they pair off in practice I would think Tim would have killed Pop by now for not playing him side by side. Tim will let Pop know what he thinks this year.

I too would still like more minutes from him primarily for defensive rebounding purposes and his defensive play on more mobile big men. I like his ability to help, but he is not going to block many shots, he does bother and get in the way. Imo he does need more minutes, but he has limitations and needs to improve some very basic parts of his game.

So I guess I have seen an imposter as he is supposed to be as good as Gasol.

[jestersmash]

I've been on the Splitter bandwagon for a while now so I agree with most of the OP. I'm surprised Splitter hasn't gotten more pub due to his impressive stats. Even Hollinger, the ultimate PER lover, hasn't been very vocal about what Splitter is doing. BTW, since Splitter's return from the back spams, his PER is ~27 :wow


He commented on Splitter's lack of minutes and a Splitter-Duncan pairing in his daily chat a couple of days ago -

Mark (texas)
Isn't it inevitable that Pop will enventually need to use Duncan and Splitter against the lakers if they meet in the playoffs?

John Hollinger
I have been baffled all year at how little burn Spitter is getting because he's played extremely well in his chances, and while the Spurs have rebounded well on the season they were brutalized by the Lakers the other night. Will be very interested to see if they counter Gasol-Bynum with Splitter- Duncan, because Blair and Bonner just don't have the size.

[DrSteffo]

Splitman4evah why did you choose that user name? Why do you hate Splitter so much? He didn't sign an autograph for you or something like that?

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

The media does not want us to know how good Splitter really is...


Did they put some mask on that 7 foot Brazilian I saw this year? Have they distracted us at home during moments of brilliance with puppy breath?

Jesus, I too would like to see more playing time. But I think the OP does not want us to know Splitter's limitations. Therefore I call a board conspiracy to quell a conspiracy that does not exist.

1. Tiago has a very tough time around the basket in the post up position. He relies on a hook that is bad to awful unless he gets that up and under move going. Horribly inconsistent down low while posted. One area that requires a more physical nature which I must say has improved from last year.

2. He has zero range. ZERO. As in NIL.

3. He is by far the best while already moving towards the basket, like on a pick and roll. This limits options with him in a huge way.

4. He is not good at picking up junk baskets off offensive rebounds. And his kick outs after an offensive rebound often end up out of bounds or stolen. He is still learning how to set himself properly after coming down with the ball. Elbows out, ball up, take a pivot if there is no available outlet. He rushes or his put back is so slow he gets packed.

5. If Tim really, really thought Splitter was Gasol-level when they pair off in practice I would think Tim would have killed Pop by now for not playing him side by side. Tim will let Pop know what he thinks this year.

I too would still like more minutes from him primarily for defensive rebounding purposes and his defensive play on more mobile big men. I like his ability to help, but he is not going to block many shots, he does bother and get in the way. Imo he does need more minutes, but he has limitations and needs to improve some very basic parts of his game.

So I guess I have seen an imposter as he is supposed to be as good as Gasol.


You make some good points, but basically you're taking the Pop "blue collar, lunch bucket" argument towards Splitter. You claim he has a tough time posting up? Seriously? For about two weeks he was absolutely unguardable down on the block. You just fed him the ball on the post and he went to work and got two points pretty much every time. He's more versatile than just pick and rolls. But you know what? Even if he only excelled at pick and roll, then so what? It's the most useful play in basketball. That's sort of an important part of basketball to be good at.

[ViceCity84]

Does 48 minutes of hell and SpursNation read what's talk about on Spurstalk?

[SA210]

You make some good points, but basically you're taking the Pop "blue collar, lunch bucket" argument towards Splitter. You claim he has a tough time posting up? Seriously? For about two weeks he was absolutely unarguable down on the block. You just fed him the ball on the post and he went to work and got two points pretty much every time. He's more versatile than just pick and rolls. But you know what? Even if he only excelled at pick and roll, then so what? It's the most useful play in basketball. That's sort of an important part of basketball to be good at.

:tu

[Blackjack]

This ain't that hard for me, even if it's frustratin to not see the team play its best.

Pop doesn't believe this team can win the way they used to. He doesn't believe his personnel has what it takes to do what it once did, winning w/ defense and efficiency - maximizing possessions, limiting turnovers and controlling tempo.

To Pop, it's about findin a way to get it done, goin against the grain to find a way. And to me, he's out-thinkin himself.

If you ain't good enough, you ain't good enough.

Tiago ain't great, but he's one of the best they have. And if you don't play your best, you can't be your best.

Pop's playin craps, hopin for a Hail Mary - hopin the shooters get hot at the right time to carry the team - and it's misguided, at best.

But it is what it is.

It's better to be lucky than good, and as a Spurs' fan, just hopin Pop's one lucky sonbitch this year - but I ain't holdin my breath.

[pgardn]

You make some good points, but basically you're taking the Pop "blue collar, lunch bucket" argument towards Splitter. You claim he has a tough time posting up? Seriously? For about two weeks he was absolutely unguardable down on the block. You just fed him the ball on the post and he went to work and got two points pretty much every time. He's more versatile than just pick and rolls. But you know what? Even if he only excelled at pick and roll, then so what? It's the most useful play in basketball. That's sort of an important part of basketball to be good at.

He has had some very good moments in the post. I really like his footwork on the ball fake while fading and pivot back towards the bucket. But honest to God he is inconsistent with it. And against guys as strong as he is, it just does not seem to work. I saw him step around some big guys early on and reverse using the rim beautifully to prevent being blocked. But its not there consistently, especially if he feels pressured from elsewhere.

I would have to go back and look but I think most of his beasting occurred when it was not as crowded by the rim and against weaker opposition.

Anyways I would still like to see him paired with Duncan as long as we have a quick set of guys in the 3 other positions. And yes, especially against the Lakers. He is tall, and he does come up with rebounds in crowds even though sometimes he does not maintain control. His size does matter late. Asking Tim to do all the work against a pair like Bynum and Gasol is a huge chore.

[pgardn]

This ain't that hard for me, even if it's frustratin to not see the team play its best.

Pop doesn't believe this team can win the way they used to. He doesn't believe his personnel has what it takes to do what it once did, winning w/ defense and efficiency - maximizing possessions, limiting turnovers and controlling tempo.

To Pop, it's about findin a way to get it done, goin against the grain to find a way. And to me, he's out-thinkin himself.

If you ain't good enough, you ain't good enough.

Tiago ain't great, but he's one of the best they have. And if you don't play your best, you can't be your best.

Pop's playin craps, hopin for a Hail Mary - hopin the shooters get hot at the right time to carry the team - and it's misguided, at best.

But it is what it is.

It's better to be lucky than good, and as a Spurs' fan, just hopin Pop's one lucky sonbitch this year - but I ain't holdin my breath.

The bolded is basically how I feel now against the bigger front lines. But Tiago is not even close to either Gasol, its just silly the OP even mentions them in the same sentence. But we all have seen how much Marc has improved as a player. Maybe Tiago can do the same eventually. His hook is better than the absolute crap he would throw up in Europe and what he threw up last year.

[thOOdee]

to be honest the spurs got a great deal on bonner over the years and if the spurs get the first spot in the west that just proves pop is making the right decision.

[therealtruth]

Splitman4evah why did you choose that user name? Why do you hate Splitter so much? He didn't sign an autograph for you or something like that?

It gives him the ultimate ability to attack Splitter fans. It confuses you because you assume he's a Splitter fan.


You make some good points, but basically you're taking the Pop "blue collar, lunch bucket" argument towards Splitter. You claim he has a tough time posting up? Seriously? For about two weeks he was absolutely unguardable down on the block. You just fed him the ball on the post and he went to work and got two points pretty much every time. He's more versatile than just pick and rolls. But you know what? Even if he only excelled at pick and roll, then so what? It's the most useful play in basketball. That's sort of an important part of basketball to be good at.

Malone and Stockton were pretty successful.


This ain't that hard for me, even if it's frustratin to not see the team play its best.

Pop doesn't believe this team can win the way they used to. He doesn't believe his personnel has what it takes to do what it once did, winning w/ defense and efficiency - maximizing possessions, limiting turnovers and controlling tempo.

To Pop, it's about findin a way to get it done, goin against the grain to find a way. And to me, he's out-thinkin himself.

If you ain't good enough, you ain't good enough.

Tiago ain't great, but he's one of the best they have. And if you don't play your best, you can't be your best.

Pop's playin craps, hopin for a Hail Mary - hopin the shooters get hot at the right time to carry the team - and it's misguided, at best.

But it is what it is.

It's better to be lucky than good, and as a Spurs' fan, just hopin Pop's one lucky sonbitch this year - but I ain't holdin my breath.

It gives him the best excuse when they don't win: The shots didn't fall.

[skin]

Yes,Splitter is at least as good as Marc Gasol

He was as good in Spain. And he's not spanish or spaniard or whatever name you use to name us (people from Spain-Europe) but I have no problem to recognize the truth.

He was as dominant as Marc or Scola. Much better than Oberto... better than Lorbek or Ibaka but he improved his game now..... of course better than Asik.......

Yes, I wrote the same a lot of times in the forum.

I can't see the point to open a new thread . We already know it.

Yes, I have always thought like you but I do think Marc is one or two steps ahead atm because he's been playing constantly 30MPG against starters.

Splitter might be All-Star one day once he's given enough MPG to cause an impact. On the other hand, I somehow agree when pgardn talks about his limitations or when someone pointed out he's playing garbage time generating better stats.

Will he ever be All-Star? Only God knows. Will he be the secret weapon? Only God knows too. Is he a Scrub? It's a matter of personal opinion. I think what we're really missing here is a different subject. We gotta play the playoffs with our best outfit. Among our bigs not named Duncan, what do we have? Blair, Bonner, Diaw and Splitter. Which one is the best to pair with Duncan regardless how good his skills might be compared to rest of the league. IMO Splitter-Duncan pairing is by far the most effective and we should play every 4th quarter like this especially if Duncan plays the same way he played the 1st quarter against the Suns. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19184)

[DrSteffo]

It gives him the ultimate ability to attack Splitter fans. It confuses you because you assume he's a Splitter fan.


No :lol. There used to be plenty of Splitter-haters here, I just find them amusing. Must be tough... I kind of miss the fake greek troll though because he was kind of funny sometimes.

[Quadzilla99]

I've been on the Splitter bandwagon for a while now so I agree with most of the OP. I'm surprised Splitter hasn't gotten more pub due to his impressive stats. Even Hollinger, the ultimate PER lover, hasn't been very vocal about what Splitter is doing. BTW, since Splitter's return from the back spams, his PER is ~27 :wow


Hollinger in his last chat:

Mark (texas)


Isn't it inevitable that Pop will enventually need to use Duncan and Splitter against the lakers if they meet in the playoffs?

John Hollinger
(12:09 PM)
I have been baffled all year at how little burn Spitter is getting because he's played extremely well in his chances, and while the Spurs have rebounded well on the season they were brutalized by the Lakers the other night. Will be very interested to see if they counter Gasol-Bynum with Splitter- Duncan, because Blair and Bonner just don't have the size.

[GSH]

I like Splitter, and I'm glad we have him on the team. But if you watched the game tonight and you still put him at the same level as Gasol, then you're just way off base. There's just not much more to say about that.