Where's the recovery?

[Jacob1983]

Obama and his buddies love talking about the economic recovery and how the economy has recovered but I just don't see it. The economy is basically the same as it was when Barry took office. How the fuck is that a recovery? When Barry became president, the economy went bad fast and it's just now back to where it was when he first took office.
So when Obama and his still koolaid drinking supporters brag about the economy and how it's better, I just laugh at them. Their definition of recovery is like a person being shot in the chest and having a paramedic get the patient stable. The person still needs to go to the ER and have their life saved.
Making something worse that was already shitty but getting it back to its previous shitty state is not a fucking recovery.


Obama supporters need to wake up and realize that their guy is a joke and probably as much of a joke as Bush. The funny thing is at least with Bush, you knew what you were getting.

[admiralsnackbar]

I don't have any reason to believe Obama had much impact on the current economy -- good or ill -- but how can you say things are as bad now as they were in 2008? C'mon, now.

http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/gdp_real_growth_rate.html

[spursncowboys]

Why worry about that when we have a war on woman and dog abuse?

[spursncowboys]

I don't have any reason to believe Obama had much impact on the current economy -- good or ill -- but how can you say things are as bad now as they were in 2008? C'mon, now.

http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/gdp_real_growth_rate.html

He helped the economy: Golf courses and resorts all over the world!

[admiralsnackbar]

He helped the economy: Golf courses and resorts all over the world!
Good one!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol revisionist history

When Obama took office, the world was on the verge of economic collapse.

[clambake]

blaming obama for the job you got at target during the bush years?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why worry about that when we have a war on woman and dog abuse?

War on Poverty. War on drugs. Class warfare. War on Terror. Etc. They all use the same type rhetoric.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

War on Poverty. War on drugs. Class warfare. War on Terror. Etc. They all use the same type rhetoric.
War on (insert extremely vague word here) :lol

The government writing itself a blank check to allocate government resources however they chose in the name of this War on (insert extremely vague word here)

[TheSkeptic]

lol revisionist history

When Obama took office, the world was on the verge of economic collapse.

True...That said, I'm not sure he's fixed the economy so much as borrowed more time.

[ElNono]

When Barry became president, the economy went bad fast and it's just now back to where it was when he first took office.

Wait, so you're telling me it went down fast, and then recovered to what it was when he became president?

But that's not a recovery? :lol

(BTW, I put equal blame in Congress, both prior and after the last Congressional swing)

[Nbadan]

Despite the Bush tax cuts, the only reason the economy grew at all in Dubya's second term was because he was increasing the size of government...there was virtually little to no private sector job growth....compare that to Obama and stimulus growth, the private sector has generated 2 million private sector jobs and the size of government has remained stable or even decreased in Obama's first term...

[Jacob1983]

I'm still not buying it. You can't say it's a recovery when it was already bad then got worse and then got to normal which was basically the already bad status. That's not a fuckin' recovery. I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican or liberal or conservative. It's not a recovery.


I just wish people would call out Obama for his failing as president and his similarities with Bush. I mean Obama was suppose to be the opposite of Bush and suppose to be a change from bush. Where is the hope and change? It's more like nope and the same. Obama has expanded the government more during his first term than Bush did in his two terms.

I don't want Obama to suck or the economy to suck but I call it like I see it.

[mouse]

You want Recovery?

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cps/2951111682.html

[Jacob1983]

The way Craigslist is set up has always reminded me of this

http://penenberg.com/img/archive/capture.gif

[mouse]

That is very similar good find.

Unfortunately most recoveries are seen on the "next" Presidental term.

Just like many of Bush's scew ups are felt today.

[Wild Cobra]

That is very similar good find.

Unfortunately most recoveries are seen on the "next" Presidental term.

Just like many of Bush's scew ups are felt today.
By the same reasoning, don't forget that Carter's mistakes caused a huge debt increase under Reagan, and Bush Sr.'s administration made for the Surplus claimed by Clinton.

[boutons_deux]

Carter ruled in a period of stagflation from the 2nd oil shock. Then at the end of his term, the Iranian revolution oil shock caused huge inflation and economic recession at the start of St Ronnie's term.

What exact policies of Carter's were mistakes that caused a debt increase?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is the economy improving? Simple question. I wonder about those people who pretend ( I assume) to be dumb and create unrealsitic expectations for this president. Most objective folks (and statistics show) say that when Obama got into office the country was hemorraging jobs and the economy was shrinking. We lost many of these jobs during his first 6 months in office that were the result of econmoic policies of the prior congresses and president. That is a fact. I am not saying the guy is perfect because he is not but to ignore reality and deny the improvement of the economy is intellectually dishonest.

[CosmicCowboy]

Heard a crazy statistic driving to work this morning from someone from the local food bank. There are 270,000 people in Bexar County alone with Lone Star Cards. (for those that aren't from Texas, that's our food stamps)

WTF? And our economy is supposed to be relatively good here...(7% unemployment)

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn. Looked it up. Two fucking MILLION just in Texas

[boutons_deux]

The Repugs ran jobs and economy in 2010, but then have done nothing but propose abortion bills, gut the CFPB, block judgtes, appointees, etc, anything but propose/pass legislation that help jobs and economy, and of course, nothing about the housing and student loan disasters (they do want to double the student loan interest rate), and of course cut taxes on the corps and wealthy while fucking everybody else over.

Jobs and income were flat throughout 2001-2010. Did Jacob blame dubya?

btw, dubya and dickhead, right after being elected, repeatedly, bizarrely, said essentially "the economy is getting a lot worse", implicitly saying "it ain't/can't be us, so it must be Clinton".

Deep recessions like the Banksters' Great Depression take a long time to recover. The BGD has the worsening factors of the huge housing inventory, on-market and shadow inventory, accelerating, often-criminally-fraudlent foreclosures, the corporate globalization success which has killed the US quality job market permanently, and financialization of the economy, where playing with money is more rewarding than The Real Economy of producing goods and services.

The pendulum is stuck in grotesque favor of the 1% (as they intended) and won't swing back in favor of the 99% anytime soon. Meanwhile, the Repugs propose a 0.1%er who certainly won't do a fucking thing except protect and enrich his wealthy class.

[Yonivore]

Is the economy improving? Simple question.
It's not that simple.

On which economic indicators do you rely?

Employment numbers? Unemployment is at historically high levels -- and would be much higher if the government didn't quit counting people as unemployed simply because they gave up and quit looking for work.

Economic growth? I have no idea, considering the government is already fudging the numbers on unemployment what's to stop them from doing the same with GDP growth?

Bottom line; jobs are down, salaries are down or unchanged, and consumer prices are up -- on everything. I have more unemployed friends now than at any other time in my life -- going back to 7th Grade. More of my friends have lost their homes than at any time I can remember.

The economy sucks; this administration (as any would) is doing whatever it can to paint a rosier picture than what exists. That doesn't mean it's rosier.

And, you mention expectations, All you have to do is go back to some of the over-the-top rhetoric about and from Obama, during the 2008 campaign, to see from where those expectations arose.

Here's a perfect example:

Barack Obama, Deficit-Slayer (http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2009/06/22/193412/barack-obama-deficit-slayer/)


There’s a lot of political concern in Washington about public anxiety about budget deficits. Substantively, the public’s concerns don’t really make sense, as deficit-reduction amidst a severe recession will only make the recession more severe. But Stan Collender, whose deficit hawk credentials should not be in question, observes that the political problem is largely a mirage as well:

If you look beyond the very short-term, the deficit situation will begin to turnaround next year, that is, before the election. Under current forecasts, the deficit will fall by a record amount from 2009 to 2010. It will still be high by virtually anyone’s standards — probably around $1 trillion or so. But the big change in the right direction will give the White House the breathing room it needs and alter the politics substantially. Anyone want to bet that there will be a cover story somewhere next year calling Obama the deficit killer?
This will, of course, not be a substantive fix for anything. But the nominal deficit reduction will, indeed, be huge. As the economy recovers, tax revenues will rise, social safety net outlays will fall, and stimulus measures will begin to tamp down. If we can assume further growth in 2011, the complete expiry of Recovery Act provisions, and the winding down of the Iraq War, that’ll be further deficit reduction. On the merits, people would still do well to be concerned about the deficit further out when, in the absence of structural reform of the health care sector, Medicare costs will bury us all. But in the short term, things are going to look worse than they really are in 2009 and then look better than they really are in 2010. And of course people vote in the even-numbered years.
And, lets not forget Obama came into office with substantial majorities in both houses of Congress. There was no reason he could not push through an economic agenda that would achieve the results expected by his sychophants in the media and on the Left.

Expectations were high...on the Left. Very high.

And, don't come back with that old canard that, well, things were just worse than Obama thought. In addition to having a willing Congress for 2 years in his first Term, Obama took every chance to tell the American People we were in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. How much worse is it than that? Well, it's not -- we're not in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

Empty rhetoric? Probably but, you can't claim he didn't think the problem was scary bad.

He said that if he didn't get it together by his third year in office, he'd be a one term President. I hope that's true. He's been a disaster.

Oh, as for the original question; where's the recovery?

It's in the pockets of he cronies at green energy companies, unions, and sectors overseen by his unelected, unconfirmed, unvetted czars. All of those people are doing pretty damn good.

Oh, and, in the pockets of the banks we were told were too big to fail...that have only gotten bigger.

[mouse]

By the same reasoning, don't forget that Carter's mistakes caused a huge debt increase under Reagan, and Bush Sr.'s administration made for the Surplus claimed by Clinton.

So the Presidency Evolves?

[boutons_deux]

"Obama came into office with substantial majorities in both houses of Congress"

you lie.

DINO Senators like Lieberman, Nelson etc voted with the Repugs on major legislation and never gave the Dems the unConstitutional 60-vote filibuster killer.

"It's in the pockets of he cronies at green energy companies, unions, and sectors"

the green sector has been a steady source of decent, created jobs, unions are less than 10% of the workforce, and have had to lose salary and benefits non-stop.

name the sectors that are doing well only because they have Barry's czars? :lol

[TheSkeptic]

Is the economy improving? Simple question. I wonder about those people who pretend ( I assume) to be dumb and create unrealsitic expectations for this president. Most objective folks (and statistics show) say that when Obama got into office the country was hemorraging jobs and the economy was shrinking. We lost many of these jobs during his first 6 months in office that were the result of econmoic policies of the prior congresses and president. That is a fact. I am not saying the guy is perfect because he is not but to ignore reality and deny the improvement of the economy is intellectually dishonest.

Well...yes and no.

If by "improvement" you mean "better than it was when he first got here", then you would be right to a point but there were already people predicting that the consumer confidence and the market as a whole would be coming back up at around the time it did. By this definition though the economy has definitely recovered under Obama. It looks like there's more jobs and consumer confidence is better than it was when he first came to office.

However, if by "improvement" a person means "headed back in the right direction long term", there's more room for interpretation there and I can see how someone would reasonably argue that there hasn't been a true recovery.

[Winehole23]

if Japan is any indication, slow GDP growth patterns can prevail for decades.

[Winehole23]

how'd that one go, again?

[MannyIsGod]

Heard a crazy statistic driving to work this morning from someone from the local food bank. There are 270,000 people in Bexar County alone with Lone Star Cards. (for those that aren't from Texas, that's our food stamps)

WTF? And our economy is supposed to be relatively good here...(7% unemployment)

Have you ever looked at the poverty statistics for San Antonio? Unemployment isn't everything.

[MannyIsGod]

1.7 million people in Bexar county. 20% under poverty level. Thats 340,000 people.

[RandomGuy]

Why worry about that when we have a war on woman and dog abuse?

Gotta take time from the war on christmas sometime.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193090&page=11

[RandomGuy]

Have you ever looked at the poverty statistics for San Antonio? Unemployment isn't everything.

There's lot's of jobs here. I should know, I have three.

[Nbadan]

The indicators are there. I should know, I have them


Union Pacific Corp. said Thursday its first-quarter net income jumped 35 percent as the railroad hauled more cars and crude oil. CSX said earlier this week that its net income jumped 14 percent. Both railroads were hauling more containers of consumer goods and both were able to increase rates enough to offset a decline in coal shipments after a mild winter.

"The economy is stable and slowly growing," said Jack Koraleski, Union Pacific's president and CEO. "We're seeing some generally positive trends."

Many people will be encouraged by the reports because the major freight railroads are considered indicators of the nation's economic health. The amount of cars, chemicals, crops, lumber and containers of imported goods that railroads carry across the country offer insight into those industries

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20120419/APF/1204191036

Many Republicans would like to disassociate themselves with the horror that was the Bush Administration...Like they never happened..

[Yonivore]

There's lot's of jobs here. I should know, I have three.
:tu

[spursncowboys]

War on Poverty. War on drugs. Class warfare. War on Terror. Etc. They all use the same type rhetoric.

The war on terror is an actual war though.

[spursncowboys]

1.7 million people in Bexar county. 20% under poverty level. Thats 340,000 people.

with almost 30% of San Antonio residents having more than a high school diploma...

What is the poverty line defined as?

[spursncowboys]

Gotta take time from the war on christmas sometime.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193090&page=11

I'm surprised you aren't linking your posts?

[boutons_deux]

S.A. wages among lowest in the state

San Antonio-area salaries were the lowest among the largest cities in Texas last year and trailed the median salary paid workers nationwide by 13 percent, estimates from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics show.

The San Antonio area, which covers Bexar and seven surrounding counties, had 843,960 jobs as of the May 11 count that paid a median hourly wage of $14.40.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/S-A-wages-among-lowest-in-the-state-3498620.php#ixzz1sgEHMsWt

2000 x 14.40 = $29K/year, 50% of SA workers make less that $29K, and most often have no paid holiday or sick days, no benefits, and pay more in total taxes than the SA 1%.

aka, The Wealthiest Country In The History of the Universe.

[Wild Cobra]

FYI...

2080 is the correct number of hours to compute annual wages from. Not 2000.

[spursncowboys]

What is the amount? How much does someone earn to be considered under poverty line?

[boutons_deux]

FYI...

2080 is the correct number of hours to compute annual wages from. Not 2000.

50 x 40 is for most low-end people who don't have vacation or sick days.

gfy

[Jacob1983]

How can you call me a Dubya supporter when I think it's highly possible that 9/11 may have been an inside and that Dubya and Uncle Dick may have been in on it?

To give Obama credit for improving the economy is like giving credit to the dentist for cleaning your teeth. Dentists don't clean teeth. Their little helpers do.

I don't think Obama sucks because he's an evil liberal, or a socialist, or that he's half black. I think Obama sucks because he told all of us that he was gonna be a change from Bush and that he was going to put the country on a new direction. I know politicians lie but it was just comical how it turned out. And no, I didn't think Obama was going to be a miracle worker and fix everything like his koolaid drinkers did. Obama is like Bush but on steroids. Obama has expanded the government way more than Bush ever did. Obama and Bush are big government expanding presidents. They love big government expansion.

[boutons_deux]

"he told all of us that he was gonna be a change from Bush"

you were naive to believe that. The wealth and UCA runs the country, not the federal govt, and certainly not the President. If you want one-man rule, move to a country of a dictatorship or kingship.

The key change for me was that he was not a Repug. The key disaster now would be to change back to Willard Gecko with Repug control of Congress.

[Jacob1983]

To be honest, I didn't think he would be a change from Bush. I only point that out because a lot of his supporters and koolaid drinkers don't want to admit that. They cannot stand the fact that their guy is no better than the idiot we had before him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

To be honest, I didn't think he would be a change from Bush. I only point that out because a lot of his supporters and koolaid drinkers don't want to admit that. They cannot stand the fact that their guy is no better than the idiot we had before him.

i dunno what hope and change u guys were expecting, is there a country thats run successfully by a black man? lol africa

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The war on terror is an actual war though.

In what sense? The armed forces are involved? By that definition so is the war on drugs.

In my book a war is declared formally by Congress against a nation-state not just some nebulous opposition to social movements, religions, or classes of people.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i dunno what hope and change u guys were expecting, is there a country thats run successfully by a black man? lol africa

And Aussies reputation as the most bigoted fucks around continues. South Africans and Alabamans give you guys a run for your money though.

[boutons_deux]

The uptake in private sector jobs is being offset by public sector layoffs dominated by state/local govt layoffs in REPUG STATES.

Repugs doing their best to increase and prolong the economic pain in the election year.

[Winehole23]

In my book a war is declared formally by Congress against a nation-state not just some nebulous opposition to social movements, religions, or classes of people.Short book, eh? :lol




(Congressional war powers are thoroughly passe'. )