Spurs dominance creating rule changes...

[Phenomanul]

How many league rules have been enacted during the Duncan Era that were subtlely aimed at hurting the Spurs (tactics/strategies)???

Discussing with a Lakers fan co-worker... Off the top of my head I can only recount a couple of them... Such as:

1) The "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy cannot be employed during the last two minutes of a game without incurring the additional penalty of the subsequent loss of possession.

2) Hand checking in the perimeter (as a viable defensive tactic) was eliminated after the '99 Championship in an attempt to curb the Spurs' defensive dominance.

3) Rules affecting how call-ups from the D-League affected the Salary Cap, were instated to stop the Spurs organization from outsmarting the system.

4) Zone Defense now permitted in the NBA in a blatant attempt to undermine the defensive dominance that the Robinson/Duncan Spurs employed without the need for said schemes...

I guess now they might add a rule disallowing coaches from resting star players...

I know there are other rule changes that directly affected the ways the Spurs go about their business... Could the ST braintrust add them to the list if/where I missed them??? Thanks...

[TampaDude]

I guess now they might add a rule disallowing coaches from resting star players...

That rule would be impossible to enforce. All a player would have to do is claim "cramps" or "back spasms" if the coach wanted him to rest.

[Dunc n Dave]

lol "aimed at hurting the Spurs"

you're really reaching with this thread...

[Phenomanul]

lol "aimed at hurting the Spurs"

you're really reaching with this thread...

When that list ends up at around 10 or so examples we'll see how much of a stretch that premise holds... I know there are several more rule changes, I just can't remember them as well as some of our resident rules gurus...

League bias may not be overly blantant per se... but it does exist.

[baseline bum]

(1) had no effect since the Spurs didn't use that a lot until about 2008. (4) made the '03 and '04 Spurs teams impossible to score on at times. Now (2) was obvious, and basically ended Mario Elie's career.

[Hooks]

Whatever happened to the flopping rule? I remember that they were suppose start fining players for flopping, the media and players CONSTANTLY called out the Spurs' flopping. Once they started losing they were ignored, teams flop more than ever now and nobody cares, especially the Heat.

[timvp]

#1 has been the rule as long as I can remember. IIRC, that was one of the Wilt Chamberlain rule changes.

#2 is legit. The 2000 Spurs had no chance after that rule change made Elie, Jackson and Kersey obsolete.

#3 wasn't about the salary cap. It was about the Spurs calling up a player just to go to the top of the heap priority-wise to sign NBDL free agents. But since the Toros have never helped the Spurs, it's difficult to claim that one made much of a difference.

#4 made it easier for teams not as dedicated to defense to become elite. And since the Spurs base defense is rarely "illegal" by the former rules, it's probably been a net negative for the Spurs over the years. Good call.

[FromWayDowntown]

n/m

[mudyez]

reminds me of the changes my beloved Steelers and Mel Blount brought to the NFL, coz of their hard nosed style and dominance.

its the ultimate compliment, even though it s**** at the same time.

[Phenomanul]

(1) had no effect since the Spurs didn't use that a lot until about 2008. (4) made the '03 and '04 Spurs teams impossible to score on at times. Now (2) was obvious, and basically ended Mario Elie's career.

I thought the Spurs' used the deliberate foul strategy against the Lakers in 2003, 2004 and against Ben Wallace in the 2005 NBA Finals....

[Phenomanul]

Wasn't a rule affecting buy out clauses also changed??? One that made the procurement of Luis Scola that much more difficult to attain?

[baseline bum]

I thought the Spurs' used the deliberate foul strategy against the Lakers in 2003, 2004 and against Ben Wallace in the 2005 NBA Finals....

The Spurs had it used on them in 03 in game 2 vs Dallas, but I don't recall that team ever using it. Now that I think back, they may have done it a couple of times in 04. I don't think the team used it a lot until 08 against Shaq in the first round and Chandler in the second though.

[DMC]

It's in the best interest of the league to keep the game interesting to fans. Of course SA isn't interesting to most fans, but that's not their goal, I don't think, to eliminate SA from the picture. They would love to have other teams model themselves after the Spurs as it would elevate the league and bring other teams' fans who've been dormant for years into the fray.

When a team/teams learns ways to manipulate a system to their advantage, the league tries to remove that loophole. The hacking fouls destroy the game, though they are legitimate strategies to attack the weakest link of the opposing team.

The league isn't interested in keeping it fair, but keeping it marketable. They are a business first and foremost.

[will_spurs]

No #2, no Parker. And probably half of Ginobili offensive power gone, too.

[Phenomanul]

Edit: double post...

[Blake]

An NBA conspiracy thread!

Neato!

[Velo]

Didn't they put in the "5 second back to the basket in the post" penalty to prevent teams from dropping it in to the post? Sounds like it's something to limit TD.

[Obstructed_View]

Didn't they put in the "5 second back to the basket in the post" penalty to prevent teams from dropping it in to the post? Sounds like it's something to limit TD.

I think that was for Barkley or Mark Jackson.

[Beanzamillion21]

I guess now they might add a rule disallowing coaches from resting star players...

The day the NBA does forces this, is the day half the league goes to play in Europe or China. This wont happen, the players are too whiny.

[wut]

You forgot about two more enforcements:

1) Refs will call players for technicals if you even jesture your unhappiness or look at a ref in the wrong way. (Brought upon by Duncan complaining about no foul call, even as Duncan fans we have to admit he used to slap his hands and yell WAY too much before this rule change)

2) Ignoring the "flop" (Clearly was created for Manu... I mean they were showing Manu as the examples when the refs were explaining the rules on NBAtv)

...and about flopping, Manu gets WAY too much flack for this, the guy is smart and tries to get a charge call, and a lot of times he is successful...because guess what? It's a legit call.

Players like Reggie Miller dominated by taking advantage of the rules (Reggie's jump into you shot), and guess what? The media didn't make a big deal about it like he was giving a black eye to the game!

[Cane]

ESPN's Henry Abbott still talks on podcasts and on his blog about how "boring" the championship Spurs were, and how the NBA should change even more rules to take away from such defensive dominance. Gotta love it

[KaiRMD1]

I guess now they might add a rule disallowing coaches from resting star players...



I can totally see the NBA doing that considering how much attention the Spurs have been getting for it. A lot of teams do that under the guise of an "injury" but the Spurs are the only team that outright does it for rest. Not to mention, the "OLD" thing helped matters as well.

[Mel_13]

I can totally see the NBA doing that considering how much attention the Spurs have been getting for it. A lot of teams do that under the guise of an "injury" but the Spurs are the only team that outright does it for rest. Not to mention, the "OLD" thing helped matters as well.

No.

Other teams have been doing it as well. Miami rested Bosh and Wade tonight. Boston rested their Big 3 against Charlotte earlier this week. Nash and Hill rested in the middle game of a b2b2b. That's just off the top of my head.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Dunno about others.. but the new rule changes since the 2011-12 season, I thought, were to curb high IQ offense players like Manu -

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329584/nba-alters-emphasis-shooting-fouls-2011-12


"Rip-through" moves, in which an offensive player swings the ball into a defender's outstretched arm and then attempts a shot once he has created contact, will be considered non-shooting fouls if the contact begins before the offensive player starts his shooting motion.

Also, on drives to the basket, a shooting foul will be called only if contact occurs after the offensive player has begun his shooting motion, not after he has initiated his leap toward the basket.

"Certain types of contact involving the shooter were all being called in his favor," Jackson said. "It doesn't look good for the game. There was a strong feeling that those types of plays were creating an ill-advised reward for the shooter, often with three free throws."

[MannyIsGod]

Didn't they put in the "5 second back to the basket in the post" penalty to prevent teams from dropping it in to the post? Sounds like it's something to limit TD.


I think that was for Barkley or Mark Jackson.

It was known as the Barkley rule.

[Solid D]

I remember when Pop was an assistant for Nellie at Golden State in '92. The Spurs had Mr. Mean, Larry Smith, a great rebounder but a 50% FT shooter. Nellie (or was it Pop whispering in Nellie's ear?) used to have his players foul Larry with great purpose as soon as the ball was inbounded or changed possessions. 'Bout drove Tark crazy. I was at a game at the old HemisFair Arena when they did that Hack-A-Smith tactic and it worked big-time.

[Splits]

No.

Other teams have been doing it as well. Miami rested Bosh and Wade tonight. Boston rested their Big 3 against Charlotte earlier this week. Nash and Hill rested in the middle game of a b2b2b. That's just off the top of my head.

Wade has rested several games the past couple of weeks.

[Obstructed_View]

It was known as the Barkley rule.

Yep, that's the way I remember it too. Jackson also was mentioned during that time, since he would bring the ball up and immediately just go into the post without passing.

[KaiRMD1]

No.

Other teams have been doing it as well. Miami rested Bosh and Wade tonight. Boston rested their Big 3 against Charlotte earlier this week. Nash and Hill rested in the middle game of a b2b2b. That's just off the top of my head.

Then pop is the only one that gets press over it I guess. Actually, that's the only thing the Spurs get press about

[Mel_13]

Then pop is the only one that gets press over it I guess. Actually, that's the only thing the Spurs get press about

Those were all widely reported on ESPN and all the other mainstream sources.

The difference, from our perspective, is that those decisions didn't lead to dozens of hysterical threads on ST.

[Blake]

Then pop is the only one that gets press over it I guess. Actually, that's the only thing the Spurs get press about

Nobody else puts DNP: Old in the box score

[z0sa]

Didn't they put in the "5 second back to the basket in the post" penalty to prevent teams from dropping it in to the post? Sounds like it's something to limit TD.

Has anyone ever seen this called?

[Quiet Strength]

Nobody else puts DNP: Old in the box score

Didn't someone else do that recently?

[Obstructed_View]

Has anyone ever seen this called?

Never.

[Phenomanul]

They did start enforcing the staggered arrangement for those seeking to steal jump-ball tips... Manu still manages to steal them...

[dunkman]

Where shit happens . . .

[YoMamaIsCallin]

That rule would be impossible to enforce. All a player would have to do is claim "cramps" or "back spasms" if the coach wanted him to rest.

Actually that's the way it was long ago when we had the IL or Injured List. If a player needed to be inactive for a game they had to be injured, which often was "injured".

[GSH]

Has anyone ever seen this called?

Believe it or not, they called it against Tony Parker once.

I think I've seen it one other time.


Edit: Here - I can't find the actual play, but I think this is a reference to it:
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/501035-post26.html

And what about that 5 second violation they called on Tony last year against LA, where did that come from, I haven't seen it called before or since. Even the announcers had to look it up, as they were certain that the 5 second rule didn't exist in the pros. Van Gundy has a lot of balls to have spoken up

[Obstructed_View]

When Splitter brought the ball up and went into the post without passing, how many of you expected them to call it on him? :lol

[Galileo]

An NBA conspiracy thread!

Neato!

is everything a conspiracy to you? Good grief!

:downspin:

[Obstructed_View]

You don't even know hardly anything at all about the NBA.

:lol Well said.

[timvp]

The no hand-check rule was implemented after the 1993-94 season. It had nothing to do with the Spurs.Hand-checking was modified after the 1994 season. But after the 1999, it was all but eliminated.


In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders. In the frontcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders except below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may only use his forearm. In the post, neither the offensive player nor the defender is allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position. Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player. Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.

R.I.P. Elie, Jackson and Kersey, tbh.


defenders must always stay within an arm's length of the offensive player when the opponent has possession.That isn't and has never been the rule.


:lol Well said.
:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Just got done watching the Bulls beat the Mavericks by running various zone defenses. They were never whistled for any kind of violation.

[therealtruth]

Originally Posted by Manu_Forever http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/Flashskin/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5811012#post5811012)
defenders must always stay within an arm's length of the offensive player when the opponent has possession.









That isn't and has never been the rule.



I think he's talking about the illegal defense rule.

[Obstructed_View]

There is something called defensive 3 seconds violation. Google it.

You must have never played basketball, even in high school.

Which has nothing to do with zone defense. You can switch off in a 2-3 zone without standing in the lane for more than three seconds. You must just say amazingly stupid shit for the attention.

[Spursfanfromafar]

You must just say amazingly stupid shit for the attention.

Amazing how this attention-wanting idiot "KBP" continues to spew nonsense forever on this forum.

[Obstructed_View]

That isn't a true zone defense idiot.


Zone defense is different from man-to-man defense in that, instead of guarding a particular player, each zone defender is responsible for guarding an area of the floor, or "zone", and any offensive player that comes into that area.

According to the definition, it's exactly a zone defense. If there were anything in the definition of a zone defense that states that one defender is required to stand in the painted area at all times, then you'd be correct.

However, you're never correct.

[Texas_Ranger]

Juwan Howard just did the 5 second rule...

[Sec24Row7]

One rule that was NO QUESTION changed for the spurs was the implementation of the free throw line UP limit on players outside the three point line on free throws.

Cant tell you how many times I saw Manu or Tony sneak down to the corner and run in to grab the O rebound when we were such horrible free throw shooters.