Mandatory Black Boxes In All New Cars From 2015

[desflood]

Mandatory ‘Big Brother’ Black Boxes In All New Cars From 2015

Provision is part of controversial MAP-21 bill expected to pass House
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Wednesday, April 18, 2012

A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards.

Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 (known as MAP-21), calls for “Mandatory Event Data Recorders” to be installed in all new automobiles and legislates for civil penalties to be imposed against individuals for failing to do so.
“Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall revise part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, to require, beginning with model year 2015, that new passenger motor vehicles sold in the United States be equipped with an event data recorder that meets the requirements under that part,” states the bill.

Although the text of legislation states that such data would remain the property of the owner of the vehicle, the government would have the power to access it in a number of circumstances, including by court order, if the owner consents to make it available, and pursuant to an investigation or inspection conducted by the Secretary of Transportation.

Given the innumerable examples of both government and industry illegally using supposedly privacy-protected information to spy on individuals, this represents the slippery slope to total Big Brother surveillance of every American’s transport habits and location data.

The legislation, which has been given the Orwellian title ‘Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act’, sailed through the Senate after being heavily promoted by Democrats Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer and is also expected to pass the Republican-controlled House.

Given the fact that the same bill also includes a controversial provision that would empower the IRS to revoke passports of citizens merely accused of owing over $50,000 in back taxes, stripping them of their mobility rights, could the mandatory black boxes or a similar technology be used for the same purpose?

The push to pressure car manufacturers to install black box tracking devices in all new cars has been ongoing for over a decade. In 2006, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration encouraged but did not require automobile manufacturers to install the systems.

However, in February last year NHTSA administrator David Strickland said the government was considering making the technology mandatory in the wake of recalls of millions of Toyota vehicles.

Earlier this year it was reported that the NHTSA would soon formally announce that all new cars would be mandated to have the devices fitted by law, which has now been codified into the MAP-21 bill.

[DarrinS]

It is VERY likely that your vehicle already has one.

[Blake]

Infowars.

I'll try to read the piece without an lol, but historically it's been hard not to

[Winehole23]

It is VERY likely that your vehicle already has one. how long has this been the case, would you say?

(pure curiosity here, zero knowledge)

[coyotes_geek]

how long has this been the case, would you say?

(pure curiosity here, zero knowledge)

At least as long as OnStar has been around.

[Winehole23]

:tu

[Winehole23]

analog to digital conversion in 2007

[Winehole23]

rolled out its first product in fall of 1996

[Winehole23]

what I was asking was sorta, when did it become standard equipment, as suggested upstream?

[coyotes_geek]

The computers have been in cars for decades. Now the wireless age has eliminated the need for the car to be physically connected to another computer in order to retrieve the data. Certainly the black helicopter crowd will be worried about the government being able to track your whereabouts (as if people aren't already making that easy to do by carrying smartphones), but the entities who are really interested in tracking your driving habits are insurance companies and transportation agencies.

[Winehole23]

oh, I feel much better now... ;-)

[coyotes_geek]

oh, I feel much better now... ;-)

:lol

I share the sentiment, but that's the path the technology is taking us down.

That being said, anyone bothered by this is already pretty late to the party. Like Darrin said, odds are most of us are already driving a vehicle with something similar on it.

[EVAY]

Some scientists started worrying about this sort of thing happening when cell phones first became truly mobile, i.e., when they stopped being tied to your car. They said that the technology would inevitably lead to (what were then) violations of privacy. Nobody had much of a clue what they were talking about, and lots of folks accused them of being conspiracy theorists. Mostly pone companies accused them of it.

The technology is here to stay and the application of the technology for finding liability in auto accidents and verification for traffic citations is going to prove impossible for legislatures to turn down.

But, the slippery slope began with the cell pone, and none of us are ready to give them up.

[Winehole23]

born not to carry a phone, but it's highly impractical not to

[fmedrano1977]

Could this be a precursor to a tax based on how many miles we drive?

[z0sa]

Could this be a precursor to a tax based on how many miles we drive?

I thought that was called gas?

[coyotes_geek]

Could this be a precursor to a tax based on how many miles we drive?

Yes.

[z0sa]

can we all just get 666 microchips tattoo'd into our foreheads already?

[DarrinS]

how long has this been the case, would you say?

(pure curiosity here, zero knowledge)


Mid to late 90's

[DarrinS]

Could this be a precursor to a tax based on how many miles we drive?

I think Progressive has a device that reads data from your vehicle network through the ODBII port and will reduce your rate if the data indicates you are a good driver (by that, I assume not overly speedy, aggressive, etc.)

[baseline bum]

Nice, we can have fully automated speeding tickets soon.

[DarrinS]

The computers have been in cars for decades. Now the wireless age has eliminated the need for the car to be physically connected to another computer in order to retrieve the data. Certainly the black helicopter crowd will be worried about the government being able to track your whereabouts (as if people aren't already making that easy to do by carrying smartphones), but the entities who are really interested in tracking your driving habits are insurance companies and transportation agencies.


I don't know of any vehicle telematics system (other than OnStar) that can read anything from the event data recorder.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/onstar2.htm

[Winehole23]

Mid to late 90'sCG already jumped in to answer that one for me, but thanks for replying. :tu.

[DarrinS]

Wasn't aware of these other systems.

•Ford RESCU (remote emergency satellite cellular unit) and VEMS (vehicle emergency messaging system)
•Volvo OnCall
•BMW Assist
•Mercedes-Benz TeleAid and Command


http://auto.howstuffworks.com/onstar4.htm

[DarrinS]

FYI, you shouldn't try to disable the event recorder if you still want airbag functionality. If you don't like the "big brother" aspect, you can probably have the cellular comm disabled (if you have OnStar).

[Blake]

Nice, we can have fully automated speeding tickets soon.

Based on the difficulties that municipalities have had in courts concerning the red light cameras, it's doubtful, imo.

[Wild Cobra]

It is VERY likely that your vehicle already has one.
Yes.

The new engine control computers do store information. How much, I don't know. I know they store a limited amount, but that doesn't mean they don't store a vast amount. I don't think they store enough to be able to reconstruct who's at fault in an accident, if you ran a light, etc. though.

[Wild Cobra]

Could this be a precursor to a tax based on how many miles we drive?
Could be one reason.

If people go to electric, how do they collect road revenues?

[Wild Cobra]

can we all just get 666 microchips tattoo'd into our foreheads already?

You mean you don't have yours yet? I though everyone did already.

[Wild Cobra]

Personally, I would gladly have one of these in my car if it stored and maintained driving data. That doesn't mean I want it mandated.

I have been in two wrecks in my life, neither my fault, I saw them in time to react, but there wasn't enough time to stop the accident from occurring. Screwed both times by insurance. Such a system will help in showing who is at fault in an accident.

[EVAY]

born not to carry a phone, but it's highly impractical not to

Remarkable!! I'm impressed. I'm rarely too far away from mine, and I use it for directions all the time. I want to get the kind that talks back to me next time...guess I'm missing the bratty teenage years from my kids. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Remarkable!! I'm impressed. I'm rarely too far away from mine, and I use it for directions all the time. I want to get the kind that talks back to me next time...guess I'm missing the bratty teenage years from my kids. :lol
I purposely turn mine off quite often.

[DarrinS]

Yes.

The new engine control computers do store information. How much, I don't know. I know they store a limited amount, but that doesn't mean they don't store a vast amount. I don't think they store enough to be able to reconstruct who's at fault in an accident, if you ran a light, etc. though.



There's data stored in the airbag control module, there's data stored in the powertrain control module, and there's data stored in the rollover sensor module. Probably others, too.

You still need an expert to look at the data.

[RandomGuy]

Infowars.com

Stopped reading.

Next.

[Winehole23]

Remarkable!! I'm impressed. I'm rarely too far away from mine, and I use it for directions all the time. I want to get the kind that talks back to me next time...guess I'm missing the bratty teenage years from my kids. :lolif there were a smartphone that worked real good as a phone, maybe I'd consider getting one of those. Is there one?

[LnGrrrR]

Personally, I would gladly have one of these in my car if it stored and maintained driving data. That doesn't mean I want it mandated.

I have been in two wrecks in my life, neither my fault, I saw them in time to react, but there wasn't enough time to stop the accident from occurring. Screwed both times by insurance. Such a system will help in showing who is at fault in an accident.

I agree with this. :tu

[Blake]

born not to carry a phone, but it's highly impractical not to

Wow. I feel naked without mine.

[Blake]

Stopped reading.

Next.

Beat you to it. Ha.

[EVAY]

if there were a smartphone that worked real good as a phone, maybe I'd consider getting one of those. Is there one?

My iPhone 4 does whatever I want it to (except talk back to me) and is quite a good phone. Sounds like it has been a while since you used one? I also like the fact that mine gets text updates for traffic problems in my county in Colorado when I am there. It is not so important here...but up there you can get stuck for HOURS on a highway with no way on or off if you get caught in snow, ice, rock or traffic accidents. It's worth knowing about, imo.

Phone companies are petitioning Public Utility commissions for permission to stop serving distant rural areas with landlines if there are internet and/or wireless capabilities in the areas serviced.

All of which is to say, enjoy your landline while you have it...I think they will disappear in your lifetime.

[EVAY]

if there were a smartphone that worked real good as a phone, maybe I'd consider getting one of those. Is there one?

I assume from the above that you have had trouble with...what?...dropped calls?...bad connections?...what?

[Winehole23]

coverage/connectivity, slowness, fragility, general unreliability, the whole gamut. my sweetie's new iPhone seems marginally good, her old one was obviously bad. I don't use one.

[DarrinS]

coverage/connectivity, slowness, fragility, general unreliability, the whole gamut. my sweetie's new iPhone seems marginally good, her old one was obviously bad. I don't use one.

I don't think it's the best cell phone, but Apple has definitely mastered the minimalist interface, which I prefer. I think some smart phones are going in the wrong direction w bigger screens. Just my two cents.

[boutons_deux]

"some say" iphone 5 in Oct will go to bigger screen

[ElNono]

I just read about that. Just to clarify a bit:

- SAE J1979 is the standard that defines the how the data (both historical fault and real time) is to be presented to the given interface (OBD2 in the US, JOBD in Japan, etc).

- Actual mandated storage (until this law anyways) was logging of faults. Included are event log of fault codes, airbag deployment, etc. Mostly related to safety.

- Newer vehicles also log and report fuel efficiency, since gas mileage has been a fairly big topic.

- The standard allows custom manufacturer extensions. This is used for a lot of different things. For example, Toyota uses this to configure car options such as auto-unlocking the vehicle when shifted to Park on their Lexus line, update vehicle emissions profiles, etc. Test vehicles are known to use this extension to log long term event data. It's kind of a free for all, and some manufacturers have abused it a bit to build "dealer only" diagnostics tools, by only implementing the bare minimum of the OBD2 standard (mostly emissions and basic diagnostic codes), and moving all the extended diagnostic information into their custom protocol.

- Actually logging real-time event data for any reasonable amount of time has been fairly cost prohibitive up until recently. With the advent of high capacity, cheap flash memory, it's probably a lot more feasible now. Using a hard-drive on a part that's supposed to be crash-proof isn't an option.

- OnStar and similar services do have full access to your vehicle data (and more), although they don't necessarily monitor all real time data all the time (OnStar monitors very specific events, such as alarms going off or airbags being deployed). There's simply too much data and their bandwidth is limited. This is changing though, as OnStar already has a deal in place to tap Verizon's LTE network.

- Manufacturers are, for the most part, against blackboxes. It's evidence that can be used against them if the cause of an accident is a vehicle malfunction due to a manufacturer defect.

- If you drive around with your cell phone, you're already exposed to giving up an event log of your location if LE is interested in it.

My 2c.

[Winehole23]

well then, we're all basically fucked and have been for quite some time now. the OP is old news repurposed as conspiranoia.

[Wild Cobra]

- Manufacturers are, for the most part, against blackboxes. It's evidence that can be used against them if the cause of an accident is a vehicle malfunction due to a manufacturer defect.

Probably true, but I see people prone to starting an accident more worried.

I'll be the insurance companies would love to get their hands on such data.