Chris Palmer would take Kobe over Jordan in crunch time

[irishock]

chris palmer ‏ @ESPNChrisPalmer Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
I'll take Kobe over Jordan in the clutch. No question.

[DMC]

Sure, today.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If I need a 3, yeah. Other than that, no.

[BanditHiro]

Didn't MJ shoot like around 50% during clutch situations...

[Arcadian]

If I need a 3, yeah. Other than that, no.

Even then, just have Jordan drive it and draw a foul for 3.

[Koolaid_Man]

chris palmer ‏ @ESPNChrisPalmer Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
I'll take Kobe over Jordan in the clutch. No question.


one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

[100%duncan]

Sure, today.

[100%duncan]

one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

Spurs don't need to win games against scrub teams in crunch time. Hello Nets

[Deuce Bigalow]

one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

bbbut but wat bout timmy?
he is more clutch is what ive heard from spurfan :lol

[Spursfan092120]

one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

Hurts, don't it?

http://fansofmediocrity.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/robert-horry.jpg

[midnightpulp]

Palmer is a known Lakers homer, so I'm not surprised he'd take Kobe. However, what exactly does "crunch time" mean in this instance? Last 5 minutes of the game, last 10 seconds, or last second shot?

Only an idiot would take Kobe over Jordan in the first two instances, but it's very close between the two if you need a last second shot from an inbound pass.

Take Reggie Miller over both for a buzzer beater, though. Best catch-and-shoot shooter of all-time.

[midnightpulp]

one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

Duncan was a clutcher player in '03 than Bryant.

[Venti Quattro]

I would too, just to laugh at the ensuing massive butthurt among Kobe haters, Jordan fans and Lakers haters alike. That, and because Kobe can make things happen in the clutch.

[Halberto]

Who the fuck is Chris Palmer?

[midnightpulp]

bbbut but wat bout timmy?
he is more clutch is what ive heard from spurfan :lol

More clutch in the '03 and '04 seasons:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/20ji688.jpg

http://oi42.tinypic.com/ffbm8l.jpg

Funny enough, Shaq was the '03 Lakers' best clutch time performer, despite his poor FT shooting.

[Venti Quattro]

Who the fuck is Chris Palmer?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chris+palmer+espn

[midnightpulp]

I would too, just to laugh at the ensuing massive butthurt among Kobe haters, Jordan fans and Lakers haters alike. That, and because Kobe can make things happen in the clutch.

No trolling or Kobe hate here, but Kobe's clutch reputation is massively overblown. Sure, if you need a last second turn around jumper from the baseline coming off an inbounds pass, there's no one better in today's league, but Kobe hasn't been any better than many other star players of his generation in crunch time.

[DAF86]

one things for sure he wouldn't have taken a Spur... :lmao in any era :lmao

Of course HE wouldn't have taken a Spur or any other guy for that mather, If he's crazy enough to pick a guy that hits 1/4 of his clutch shots over Jordan.

BTW, Manu shits all over Kobe in crunch time.

[Venti Quattro]

It's overblown because of the media orgasm everytime Kobe does something in crunch time like "OMFGGGG LEBRON CAN'T DO DET!!!". But sure, I'll take him because I've seen him do good things in the clutch. As a person who watched him swish nothing but air on two crucial shots in Utah, I can say he has come a long way.

[midnightpulp]

It's overblown because of the media orgasm everytime Kobe does something in crunch time like "OMFGGGG LEBRON CAN'T DO DET!!!". But sure, I'll take him because I've seen him do good things in the clutch. As a person who watched him swish nothing but air on two crucial shots in Utah, I can say he has come a long way.

Agreed. Kobe's a fine crunch time performer, he's just not leaps and bounds above comparable superstars as the talking heads and media proclaim. I will say he is the most dangerous and effective last second shot taker though. That can't be disputed, but I don't think he's any better of a late-4th closer than the Dirk's, Wade's, Lebron's (who is unfairly labeled a choker) etc.

[Venti Quattro]

LeBron is unfairly high up as a choker but to some degree he merits it. He really disappears in the biggest ballgames of his team on national TV, which is sad given all his world-beating talents. Crunch time performances are a mix of perception and the player itself wanting it. LeBron could be a fucking great clutch player if he just wanted it in the biggest games. Kobe, sure he shoots the team out, but he wants it and he's going to fucking get it.

[midnightpulp]

LeBron is unfairly high up as a choker but to some degree he merits it. He really disappears in the biggest ballgames of his team on national TV, which is sad given all his world-beating talents. Crunch time performances are a mix of perception and the player itself wanting it. LeBron could be a fucking great clutch player if he just wanted it in the biggest games. Kobe, sure he shoots the team out, but he wants it and he's going to fucking get it.

Lebron is experiencing a similar media blowback that Dirk did after the '06 Finals and '07 First Round. Everyone seemed to forget how clutch Dirk was before those two series. Same with Lebron. He about single-handily got the Cavs to the Finals in '07. And in '09, he did everything in his power to get the Cavs back to the Finals. He had 49, 44, and 41 in Games 1, 3, and 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals, all games which the Cavs lost. And in last year's Eastern Conference Finals, he was great on both sides of the ball, holding Derek Rose to a combined 48 points on 17 of 56 shooting for the last two games of the series.

Thing is, he doesn't yet have the rings to cover up his failures. Kobe, Duncan, etc could choke for the rest of their remaining careers and no one would criticize it since they have rings (which, let's be honest, are team accomplishments), but until Lebron hoists the O'Brien, the microscope will continue to be on him and unfairly focus on the negative.

[Venti Quattro]

Lebron is experiencing a similar media blowback that Dirk did after the '06 Finals and '07 First Round. Everyone seemed to forget how clutch Dirk was before those two series. Same with Lebron. He about single-handily got the Cavs to the Finals in '07. And in '09, he did everything in his power to get the Cavs back to the Finals. He had 49, 44, and 41 in Games 1, 3, and 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals, all games which the Cavs lost. And in last year's Eastern Conference Finals, he was great on both sides of the ball, holding Derek Rose to a combined 48 points on 17 of 56 shooting for the last two games of the series.
That could be a great reason but I don't see the reason for LeBron not to transcend that media blowback. Again, because of his talents and what he did previously. After his clutch destruction of Detroit, everyone thought he was going to be the next big thing in the crunch time since Mike J. I even heard comments that it was better than any of Mike's performances. Since then, I felt that he has regressed from that crest -- a crest that we thought could only be a point moving upward.

Thing is, LeBron is so fucking good he can destroy anyone if he wants it. He has to have the consistent mindset to want it.


Thing is, he doesn't yet have the rings to cover up his failures. Kobe, Duncan, etc could choke for the rest of their remaining careers and no one would criticize it since they have rings (which, let's be honest, are team accomplishments), but until Lebron hoists the O'Brien, the microscope will continue to be on him and unfairly focus on the negative.
Ring winners are instantaneously absolved of any crunch time choking. Case in point to "it's all about perception". Two players that I think now belong in this circle: Pierce and Garnett. Pierce is an underrated clutch player who is also going to be absolved of any crunch time choking because he thoroughly outplayed Kobe in the 2008 Finals and won the Finals MVP to boot. Garnett was never really known for any mega-clutch moment (except Game 7 of 04 WCSF) but he is going to get absolved because he was the leader of det Celtics team physically and mentally.

[Josepatches_]

And Melo> Kobe in clutch . It's not an opinion. It's a fact. So Melo> MJ too


Lol Palmer..who is this idiot?

[midnightpulp]

That could be a great reason but I don't see the reason for LeBron not to transcend that media blowback. Again, because of his talents and what he did previously. After his clutch destruction of Detroit, everyone thought he was going to be the next big thing in the crunch time since Mike J. I even heard comments that it was better than any of Mike's performances. Since then, I felt that he has regressed from that crest -- a crest that we thought could only be a point moving upward.

Thing is, LeBron is so fucking good he can destroy anyone if he wants it. He has to have the consistent mindset to want it.


Ring winners are instantaneously absolved of any crunch time choking. Case in point to "it's all about perception". Two players that I think now belong in this circle: Pierce and Garnett. Pierce is an underrated clutch player who is also going to be absolved of any crunch time choking because he thoroughly outplayed Kobe in the 2008 Finals and won the Finals MVP to boot. Garnett was never really known for any mega-clutch moment (except Game 7 of 04 WCSF) but he is going to get absolved because he was the leader of det Celtics team physically and mentally.

I definitely think he wants to, and after his dominance of Rose in last year's ECF, we thought he'd finally do it. He just never found a rhythm in the Finals. It happens. Similar to Kobe in '08 after dominating his way through the Western Conference playoffs. Yes, Boston was a great defensive team, but nearly every fan and analyst on earth thought Kobe was unstoppable and there wasn't a defense in existence that could slow him down. But as we know, Boston's defense did just that. Yet, that didn't stop people from labeling Kobe a "choker" and accusing of him of not being able to win without Shaq.

Regarding Lebron against Dallas, whether it was primarily due to him shrinking in the moment or Dallas's defense (which was very good. Marion played good D on Lebron, and if Lebron did beat Marion, you had Chandler waiting for him in the paint) we'll never know. Sometimes players don't choke and you have to give the majority of the credit to the opposing defense.

Playoffs will be damn interesting this year, no doubt.

[LobCity]

Kobe being clutch is actually a myth. It's been created through media propaganda.

If you don't believe me read the Kobe Bryant Myth:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

We all have bias because of what we hear, watch, and read but the truth is Kobe's not a clutch player. For that matter, neither is Chauncey Billups. They just got a reputation of being clutch players and it stuck.

We see the game winners and the buzzer beaters over and over again but somehow the game ending misses don't seem to make the highlight reel.

[LkrFan]

More clutch in the '03 and '04 seasons:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/20ji688.jpg

http://oi42.tinypic.com/ffbm8l.jpg

Funny enough, Shaq was the '03 Lakers' best clutch time performer, despite his poor FT shooting.

Shaq was often pulled in the last few minutes because he was a FT liability. Ever hear of hack-a-Shaq? Kobe's been our closer since he was 21 years old. Any points Shaq got were spoon fed by Kobe. Not to hard to convert a dunk.

-10 points.

[dunkman]

Who said that?

[100%duncan]

Seriously though, 4th quarter:Jordan Last 2 minutes: Jordan Last Shot of the game:Can be pretty close and it's hard to choose.

[Koolaid_Man]

Shaq was often pulled in the last few minutes because he was a FT liability. Ever hear of hack-a-Shaq? Kobe's been our closer since he was 21 years old. Any points Shaq got were spoon fed by Kobe. Not to hard to convert a dunk.

-10 points.


:lmao these SPur fan boys led by midget are going crazy....fact is no one outside of SA appreciates Duncan...:lol they may say it but they don't...he's 33 & 22 all time in points and rebounds....

and even with 33 & 22 when you boil that all down in a stock pot with potato's and and crawfish you get:

Kobe 5

TOSB 4

:lmao

[Venti Quattro]

Lob City is also a myth. The Lakers have more alley-oops than the Clips. So now you're nothing but a collection of floppers who dunk, flop and stare everyone down.

[midnightpulp]

Shaq was often pulled in the last few minutes because he was a FT liability. Ever hear of hack-a-Shaq? Kobe's been our closer since he was 21 years old. Any points Shaq got were spoon fed by Kobe. Not to hard to convert a dunk.

-10 points.

:lmao

Yeah, he got pulled so much down the stretch that's why he averaged significantly more points in crunch time than Kobe during the 3 peat era.

Read this again:

"Yet for us ultimately the choice remains the same as it has been for some time: Shaquille O'Neal. Free throw shooting aside, no one comes close to scaring defenses like Shaq, and there are key areas where he rates head and shoulders above Nowitzki -- when the shot clock is running down, Nowitzki was only a 43.3% effective shooter compared to Shaq's 54.5%, more of Shaq's baskets are unassisted, meaning he creates his own points more often, and finally when you need the unstoppable shot, the power slam, there's no one even close (19% of O'Neal's clutch shots are dunks, half of them unassisted)."

"B-B-But he was spoonfed by Kobe!" Quit rewriting history for the purpose of bolstering Kobe's legacy.

No coach in his right mind would pull Shaq in "the last few minutes" of a game, much less an important playoff game.

Check out this link:

http://www.82games.com/comm36.htm

In the '04 playoffs (through round 2), Shaq played more minutes in crunch time than Bryant.

"They often pulled him in crunch time!"

:lmao

(PS: Kobe 3-16 in the clutch in '04 through the first two rounds. Duncan, 7-8 :p:)

[midnightpulp]

Kobe being clutch is actually a myth. It's been created through media propaganda.

If you don't believe me read the Kobe Bryant Myth:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

We all have bias because of what we hear, watch, and read but the truth is Kobe's not a clutch player. For that matter, neither is Chauncey Billups. They just got a reputation of being clutch players and it stuck.

We see the game winners and the buzzer beaters over and over again but somehow the game ending misses don't seem to make the highlight reel.

One of the best articles on exposing Kobe's overblown clutch status.

InB4 "You're just a Kobe hater and mad he has one more ring than Duncan!"

Trolling aside, I appreciate Kobe's game and rank him 10 on my personal all-time great list, but there's just too many facts that argue against him being the "greatest closer in the game." He's good late in the 4th, no doubt, but the reality doesn't match the perception in this case.

[cheguevara]

:lol chris palmer sounds like a made up name tbh

[VBM]

Lob City is also a myth. The Lakers have more alley-oops than the Clips. So now you're nothing but a collection of floppers who dunk, flop and stare everyone down.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0120/nba_g_griffin_b1_576.jpg

[Koolaid_Man]

One of the best articles on exposing Kobe's overblown clutch status.

InB4 "You're just a Kobe hater and mad he has one more ring than Duncan!"

Trolling aside, I appreciate Kobe's game and rank him 10 on my personal all-time great list, but there's just too many facts that argue against him being the "greatest closer in the game." He's good late in the 4th, no doubt, but the reality doesn't match the perception in this case.

You know the deal....boil that shit down for me...so I can sell it..:lol

No. You don't want to? Ok step aside and let Kool cook up this shit...

Kobe 5
Duncan 4

[mercos]

Can't say I would take Kobe over Jordan in a clutch situation, but I don't think its heresy to do so. I haven't read all the stats posted in this thread, but to me what makes Kobe so dangerous in a late game situation is his ability to hit shots under ridiculous coverage. I can't count how many times I have seen him hit dagger threes against double coverage when the opposing team is doing everything it can to get the ball out of his hands. One of his best abilities is being able to get a quality look no matter what the defense is doing. He doesn't always make it, but he can get the look.

[jacobdrj]

I'd probably take Jordan.
But (of players that I have seen play) I'd take Reggie over either...
And Horry before anyone...

And Timmay ain't no slouch in the crunch...