Basketball IQ

[Blake]

Apparently Boris Diaw has a high BBIQ. So did Horry.

Are there any Spurs with low BBIQs, aside from Pop

[Mel_13]

http://old.post-gazette.com/images4/20070406jh_DejuanBlair_450.jpg

[ElNono]

http://old.post-gazette.com/images4/20070406jh_DejuanBlair_450.jpg

He's got grand BBQs though...

[Blake]

He's got grand BBQs though...

I bet his BBQ sandwich shop would be more successful than Malik's

[Blake]

srsly, what does high BBIQ mean?

Does the player lack natural athletic ability and can attribute their success to being smart?

Is it consistent play? Being in the right place, right time?

[Spursfanfromafar]

http://old.post-gazette.com/images4/20070406jh_DejuanBlair_450.jpg

Touch unfair. The only thing low about Blair, IMO is his vertical ceiling. He tries to play like he is 7 ft, except he doesn't realise that he is 5 inches shorter.

The one Spur I remember who had the lowest IQ was Drew Gooden.

[timvp]

Blair is a tough call. He's a pretty damn good passer and you can't be a good passer without a relatively high basketball IQ. He also understands spacing and how to operate high-low sets with Duncan. And while he's a liability on defense, it's mostly because he's extremely short for his position and isn't too athletic. You could put Tim Duncan's brain and Manu Ginobili's heart in DeJuan Blair's body and he'd still be a bad defender.

On the other hand, Blair does do a lot of dumb things that make you question his basketball IQ. Tbh, though, I think those dumb things are a matter of recklessly trying to compensate for his lack of size and athleticism. He also tends to drift mentally and let one bad play snowball into a series of bad plays.

Off the top of my head, I'd say Diaw and Duncan have the highest basketball IQs on the team. Lowest? Probably Neal and Mills. Thankfully they can both shoot . . .

[Spursfanfromafar]

srsly, what does high BBIQ mean?

Does the player lack natural athletic ability and can attribute their success to being smart?

Is it consistent play? Being in the right place, right time?

I suppose someone who understands the team's offensive plays and the coach's directions well enough. Someone who goes beyond his individual skill set and reacts well to a particular situation.. Like say.... helping out the offense score quickly in a two for one.. take a charge when required.. rotate well on help defense.. makes the necessary extra pass.. understands screening and pick and roll plays.. ..and tries to play out the role assigned to him.

Boris Diaw fits all that to a T.

The very anti-thesis of a Diaw is someone like Javale McGee. He plays as a individual rather than a team-member, never understands situational plays.. is uninterested many a time.. and is selfish looking for spectacular plays...

Or someone like Nate Robinson who is always trying to play to a gallery than letting his team win.

[Blake]

Lowest? Probably Neal and Mills. Thankfully they can both shoot . . .

The two lowest are two point guards.

Yay. Yes, thankfully they can score.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The two lowest are two point guards.

Yay. Yes, thankfully they can score.

Neither is one.. They are guards (one is speedy, the other is a dead on shooter) who are made to play PG (sometimes) because they are short and can't guard SGs.

[Blake]

Neither is one.. They are guards (one is speedy, the other is a dead on shooter) who are made to play PG (sometimes) because they are short and can't guard SGs.

Like Tony

[Spursfanfromafar]

Like Tony

was.. apparently according to those who followed the Spurs via box scores..

Tony has always been a PG.. a Scoring PG like some from yesteryear.. (Bob Cousy?)

[sa_butta]

I think Ginobili has one of the highest basketball IQ's on the team. Lowest BBIQ on the team to me is James Anderson.

[Blake]

Tony has always been a PG.. a Scoring PG like some from yesteryear.. (Bob Cousy?)

Like Mills. And what's now being forced on Gary.

[SenorSpur]

Off the top of my head, I'd say Diaw and Duncan have the highest basketball IQs on the team. Lowest? Probably Neal and Mills. Thankfully they can both shoot . . .

Do you think that the high BBIQ, along with his positional defensive prowess, is enough to have already solidified Diaw's return to the Spurs next season?

[timvp]

Like Tony:td Parker was a point guard from Day 1. He has polished his skills over the years but he was 100% legit out of the box.


I think Ginobili has one of the highest basketball IQ's on the team.I classify Ginobili as more of an instinctual player rather than someone who relies on high basketball IQ. Ginobili doesn't often settle for the most fundamentally sound option, which is part of the reason why he's the most entertaining Spurs player of the last 30 years.

Sometimes his instincts don't work out (Dirk foul :depressed) but he's a Hall of Famer because he follows his creative instincts even if it isn't necessarily "smart".


Do you think that the high BBIQ, along with his positional defensive prowess, is enough to have already solidified Diaw's return to the Spurs next season?

I think it'll depend on the playoffs. If he rises to the challenge and gives the Spurs that multi-dimensional stretch four next to Duncan that Pop has been craving for years, I think the Spurs would try hard to re-sign him. If his passiveness becomes a hindrance, I'd imagine the Spurs would look elsewhere first.

So far, so good, though.

[SenorSpur]

I think it'll depend on the playoffs. If he rises to the challenge and gives the Spurs that multi-dimensional stretch four next to Duncan that Pop has been craving for years, I think the Spurs would try hard to re-sign him. If his passiveness becomes a hindrance, I'd imagine the Spurs would look elsewhere first.

So far, so good, though.

Ah, the search for the missing ghost of Robert Horry could perhaps be found in the closet of Boris Diaw.

Let's all hope the next time Boris is seen dancing and celebrating with Parker, inside the bowels of the AT&T Center, it will be followed by a Riverwalk parade this June.

[Blake]

:td Parker was a point guard from Day 1. He has polished his skills over the years but he was 100% legit out of the box.


Nah, I've always thought of Tony being a 2 guard in a point guard position. To me, this has been his best true point guard year.

Imo. :tu

[timvp]

srsly, what does high BBIQ mean?


I've always thought of Tony being a 2 guard

:toast

[T Park]

Nah, I've always thought of Tony being a 2 guard in a point guard position. To me, this has been his best true point guard year.

Imo. :tu


*guffaw*

[DisAsTerBot]

:toast

lol, pretty much

[Mr. Body]

Blair is a tough call. He's a pretty damn good passer and you can't be a good passer without a relatively high basketball IQ. He also understands spacing and how to operate high-low sets with Duncan. And while he's a liability on defense, it's mostly because he's extremely short for his position and isn't too athletic. You could put Tim Duncan's brain and Manu Ginobili's heart in DeJuan Blair's body and he'd still be a bad defender.

On the other hand, Blair does do a lot of dumb things that make you question his basketball IQ. Tbh, though, I think those dumb things are a matter of recklessly trying to compensate for his lack of size and athleticism. He also tends to drift mentally and let one bad play snowball into a series of bad plays.

Off the top of my head, I'd say Diaw and Duncan have the highest basketball IQs on the team. Lowest? Probably Neal and Mills. Thankfully they can both shoot . . .

I think this is spot on. Pretty much what I was going to say, but better.

Neal and Mills aren't terrible at BBIQ, either. Understanding the game does not mean you can't make boneheaded decisions. No one on the team really has a terrible BBIQ, and Blair definitely doesn't.

[cheguevara]

:lmao at blair having BBIQ

that's like saying Bonner has bb iq. Following your coaches every shouted order does not = bbiq.

knowing that will happen a couple of plays in advance and adjusting is BBIQ. Diaw has some of that

[smaka]

I'd say Timmy and Manu.

[Blake]

:toast

^^ the Boris Diaw of the message board. :tu

Do you have a previous thread link showing why I shouldn't think Tony is really a 2 playing as a 1?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think the Spurs have a guy with a low basketball IQ anymore. Guys I'd classify as having a low basketball IQ are guys like JR Smith or Gerald Green. A guy like Hasheem Thabeet looks like he has no basketball IQ, but it's more that he just doesn't give a shit since he got paid.

If I had to mention a Spur with a low basketball IQ I'd have to say someone like Marcus Haislip or Desmon Farmer. Maybe Francisco Elson is the dumbest Spur to get regular playing time.



EDIT: James White!

[Russ]

How about recent ex-Spurs.

I always thought RJ had a pretty high real IQ, but a pretty low basketball IQ.

[timvp]

^^ the Boris Diaw of the message board. :tuMore like the Jaren Jackson, tbh.


Do you have a previous thread link showing why I shouldn't think Tony is really a 2 playing as a 1?

http://www.nba.com/





Seriously though, not sure what kind of thread you could want. If you still think TP is a two playing as a one ... I probably can't help you, tbh.

[Blake]

Seriously though, not sure what kind of thread you could want. If you still think TP is a two playing as a one ... I probably can't help you, tbh.

I was guffawed at. I figured this had been discussed before and I missed it.

Considering Tony's assist totals over the years, I'm thinking I'm pretty set in my opinion.

[Obstructed_View]

Parker was the backup for Laurent Sciarra for Paris Basket Racing. Laurent Sciarra is a point guard. Parker got the starting job for PBR at the point guard position. Why is this even a question? Parker's never played shooting guard in his life.

[Blake]

Parker was the backup for Laurent Sciarra for Paris Basket Racing. Laurent Sciarra is a point guard. Parker got the starting job for PBR at the point guard position. Why is this even a question? Parker's never played shooting guard in his life.

Neal played the point guard position last night.

True or false: Neal is a true point guard.

[Obstructed_View]

Neal played the point guard position last night.

True or false: Neal is a true point guard.

1 game.

Entire career.

Figure out the difference.

[ohmwrecker]

Tony Parker is absolutely a PG with a pretty classic set of PG skills.

lol "2 guard"

[Blake]

1 game.

Entire career.

Figure out the difference.

I'll take that as a false.

What percent of games at point guard will Neal have to play before he's considered a point guard?

51%? 75%? 90%? 99%

Give me a number. Or is it too late for him?

[Blake]

Tony Parker is absolutely a PG with a pretty classic set of PG skills.

lol "2 guard"

lol "classic set"

[Obstructed_View]

I'll take that as a false.

What percent of games at point guard will Neal have to play before he's considered a point guard?

51%? 75%? 90%? 99%

Give me a number. Or is it too late for him?

Neal has never been a point guard. He could possibly be developed into one, and his effectiveness at the position will dictate that, so there's not a percentage of games being forced into the position that will make him a point guard. I suspect you know that, but why you're being a douche about it remains a mystery.

Tony Parker has never NOT been a point guard in his entire pro career going back to when he was 16. Are you seriously so stupid that you can't see the difference, or are you just pining for attention?

[DisAsTerBot]

if he were an undersized 2, or shooting guard, shouldn't he be able to hit 3's? Or outside of the last couple seasons, have a consistent jumper?

[Phenomanul]

I don't think the Spurs have a guy with a low basketball IQ anymore. Guys I'd classify as having a low basketball IQ are guys like JR Smith or Gerald Green. A guy like Hasheem Thabeet looks like he has no basketball IQ, but it's more that he just doesn't give a shit since he got paid.

If I had to mention a Spur with a low basketball IQ I'd have to say someone like Marcus Haislip or Desmon Farmer. Maybe Francisco Elson is the dumbest Spur to get regular playing time.



EDIT: James White!

Drew Gooden is probably in the running for that one...

[DisAsTerBot]

his skill set coming into the league was speed, penetration and kicking it out. What would you call that?

[Obstructed_View]

Drew Gooden is probably in the running for that one...

Yep. Completely blocked him out. I agree. Thank you. :toast

[mathbzh]

if he were an undersized 2, or shooting guard, shouldn't he be able to hit 3's? Or outside of the last couple seasons, have a consistent jumper?

The truth is Parker is a really undersized center.

[z0sa]

I agree that Parker has matured into a true PG this year. Before, he was more of a straight up scoring 1. But I never personally thought of him as a 2; maybe because he's played PG his entire career and that's all I've ever seen him play. He did guard Rip Hamilton a lot during the 05 Finals.

[z0sa]

The truth is Parker is a really undersized center.

He has better footwork than most centers nowadays tbh ...

[Blake]

his skill set coming into the league was speed, penetration and kicking it out. What would you call that?

If he kicked it out enough times to get 8-10 assists per game, I'd call him a point guard. Generally when TP has penetrated, he's shot the ball.

Over the course of time, it's generally taken Manu's assists to get it on up to 10 per game between the two of them.

[Blake]

Neal has never been a point guard.

Last night he was. And the night before that.

Where have you been this year?


Tony Parker has never NOT been a point guard in his entire pro career going back to when he was 16. Are you seriously so stupid that you can't see the difference, or are you just pining for attention?

I think he's been a two playing a one his whole career.

Just my opinion. Are you pining to give my opinion some attention?

[Blake]

if he were an undersized 2, or shooting guard, shouldn't he be able to hit 3's? Or outside of the last couple seasons, have a consistent jumper?

Del Negro and Willie sucked at hitting 3s. They always were a foot or two inside the line.

I think I'd be cool calling TP a 1.5.

[kobyz]

i'll say Gary Neal has very good Basketball IQ, he just short, not overly skilled, slow and unathletic, but he still know how to be useful and effective, and he gets the most out of his abilities in a honorable manner and anytime that happened it's testify for hige IQ.
besides, playing in unnatural situation for him, having to play out of position, running the point and doing it relative well and successful is also an evidence for hige IQ.

[kobyz]

and ofcurse Manu has one of the biggest Basketball IQ in the game, how can be said otherwise, he's like a zen master out there, so so clever, great approach to the game!

[ElNono]

Tim and Manu, IMO and it's not close. Manu has always been messy in execution (not just in '06, even today), but his brilliance is clearly off the charts, and he has a tremendous feel for the game.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I think Bonner has almost zero basketball instincts. His BBIQ is hard to determine because he very rarely tries to make any play other than "shoot if open", though I will say his willingness to put the ball on the floor this year and expand his mid-range game is impressive. I give him credit for diligently studying and learning the system as well. But BBIQ...that's hard to say.

I think Parker is a PG. I think he's had the ability to play this way for a while but just took a long road to get here. I'm not saying his play this year is night and day different, but the differences are distinct, if subtle. And I think he has decent BBIQ as well.

[therealtruth]

I suppose someone who understands the team's offensive plays and the coach's directions well enough. Someone who goes beyond his individual skill set and reacts well to a particular situation.. Like say.... helping out the offense score quickly in a two for one.. take a charge when required.. rotate well on help defense.. makes the necessary extra pass.. understands screening and pick and roll plays.. ..and tries to play out the role assigned to him.

Boris Diaw fits all that to a T.

The very anti-thesis of a Diaw is someone like Javale McGee. He plays as a individual rather than a team-member, never understands situational plays.. is uninterested many a time.. and is selfish looking for spectacular plays...

Or someone like Nate Robinson who is always trying to play to a gallery than letting his team win.

Agree. High BBiq players make few mistakes. Make a lot of smart plays on offense/defense. Pick up for the mistakes of others. Basically make the smartest play in each situation.

[Obstructed_View]

Last night he was. And the night before that.

Where have you been this year?

No he wasn't. He's playing the position. You've made it more than clear that you don't think Tony Parker playing every game of his entire life at the point guard position is enough to make him a point guard. You need to pick a position and stick to it.


I think he's been a two playing a one his whole career.
As stated, pick a position. You can say that you think both guys are out of position, and you'd only be half wrong for a change.

[Blake]

No he wasn't. He's playing the position. You've made it more than clear that you don't think Tony Parker playing every game of his entire life at the point guard position is enough to make him a point guard. You need to pick a position and stick to it.

So you're saying Gary Neal is not a point guard, only that he's playing the position.

That's what I'm saying about Tony, but you are telling me it's not possible because he's always been a point guard.


As stated, pick a position. You can say that you think both guys are out of position, and you'd only be half wrong for a change.

You just quoted my position.

I'm betting you still don't get it and will come back with another stupid reply.

[EVAY]

I suppose someone who understands the team's offensive plays and the coach's directions well enough. Someone who goes beyond his individual skill set and reacts well to a particular situation.. Like say.... helping out the offense score quickly in a two for one.. take a charge when required.. rotate well on help defense.. makes the necessary extra pass.. understands screening and pick and roll plays.. ..and tries to play out the role assigned to him.

Boris Diaw fits all that to a T.

The very anti-thesis of a Diaw is someone like Javale McGee. He plays as a individual rather than a team-member, never understands situational plays.. is uninterested many a time.. and is selfish looking for spectacular plays...

Or someone like Nate Robinson who is always trying to play to a gallery than letting his team win.

Well said.

[romain.star]

I classify Ginobili as more of an instinctual player rather than someone who relies on high basketball IQ. Ginobili doesn't often settle for the most fundamentally sound option, which is part of the reason why he's the most entertaining Spurs player of the last 30 years.

Sometimes his instincts don't work out (Dirk foul :depressed) but he's a Hall of Famer because he follows his creative instincts even if it isn't necessarily "smart".


Probably the most accurate description you could do regarding Manu's game :toast

[ohmwrecker]

lol "classic set"

lol nobody agrees with you

[Mugen]

I think Bonner has almost zero basketball instincts. His BBIQ is hard to determine because he very rarely tries to make any play other than "shoot if open", though I will say his willingness to put the ball on the floor this year and expand his mid-range game is impressive. I give him credit for diligently studying and learning the system as well. But BBIQ...that's hard to say.


I think Bonner has pretty high BBIQ. His rotations are usually correct and he usually makes the right play on offense unless he's scared.

he rarely ever fouls. but when you've been shitted on so many times on a fastbreak, a hard foul is probably a better option than raising your short arms straight up in the air.

[DMC]

I was guffawed at. I figured this had been discussed before and I missed it.

Considering Tony's assist totals over the years, I'm thinking I'm pretty set in my opinion.

faggy opinion + certainty = douchebag status

[kobyz]

So you're saying Gary Neal is not a point guard, only that he's playing the position.

That's what I'm saying about Tony, but you are telling me it's not possible because he's always been a point guard.



You just quoted my position.

I'm betting you still don't get it and will come back with another stupid reply.

you have problem with semantics, in all of of your argument you not once said somthing that show Tony Parker is not a PG, basically what you saying is that in your opinion Parker is a scoring PG rather than a pure PG but still a PG.

[Blake]

faggy opinion + certainty = douchebag status

Lol gnsf

[roycrikside]

I don't know how LJ or anyone can debate Manu's BB IQ. His court vision is unparalleled and he knows the proper play to make in just about any offensive situation. That's why he's so efficient. He knows how to take advantage of every defender and defensive tendency out there, so he can fake people up in the air and draw fouls. He also doesn't need to be told by a coach when to hold for the last shot, when to go for a 2-for-1, etc.

I think most of Ginobili's instinctive "unsound" play is on the defensive end, tbh, and even RC Buford said when they were first evaluating him as a prospect he was a terrible defender and it was something he had to learn.

[Obstructed_View]

So you're saying Gary Neal is not a point guard, only that he's playing the position.
That's exactly what I said. Gary Neal never played point guard until this season. He's been a shooting guard everywhere he's ever been prior to this season. He's only the backup point guard at this point because TJ Ford had to retire, Cory Joseph isn't NBA ready yet and Patty Mills stinks on ice. He can mostly handle the ball, and he kind of passes sometimes. Manu is more of a point guard than Neal is when they're on the floor together, but you don't see anybody posting that Manu's a point guard.


That's what I'm saying about Tony, but you are telling me it's not possible because he's always been a point guard.
So you're suggesting that Tony Parker has been a shooting guard his entire career. Allow me to sum up: You're an idiot.


You just quoted my position.
Glad someone was finally able to state it clearly, because you seem more interested in acting like Chumpdumper to just say what you're thinking.

Conclusion: As I said, you're only half wrong.

[J.T.]

Blake with the quality trolling goods

[MannyIsGod]

Blake is pretty much of the opinion that scoring and not passing means you're not a point guard. He's made his stupid argument, now he seems married to it.

In short, Gary Neal will never be considered a point guard because he'll never develop the ball handling skills that Tony Parker has ALWAYS had in his professional career. Its not just about assists.

[MannyIsGod]

BBIQ and having instincts are two different things. BBIQ manifests itself in passing a great deal, but it also shows up in spacing and rotations because when you understand where the ball should move and when it should get there then it helps your defense just as much as it helps your passing.

I think Manu has a pretty high BBIQ in addition to instincts. I don't think its an either or with him. Now, sometimes he checks his BBIQ at the door and decides to give up 3 point plays to Dirk in the WCF (that play is the antithesis of BBIQ, TBH) but he also knows exactly where to be in many situations.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I think Bonner has pretty high BBIQ. His rotations are usually correct and he usually makes the right play on offense unless he's scared.

he rarely ever fouls. but when you've been shitted on so many times on a fastbreak, a hard foul is probably a better option than raising your short arms straight up in the air.

I agree that he does all those things, but I think it's only been through hard work and rote learning of the system, not any inherent basketball aptitude.

I've never seen him make a great pass, for example. I would think someone with a high BBIQ would see and understand the game better than others, and because of that make better plays than other players.

Bonner makes correct plays for the system, but it's like he's studied an algorithmic flow chart to get to that point. By doing so little he reduces his weaknesses.

Perhaps a more concrete definition of BBIQ is needed. Is this inherent aptitude or can it be strictly learned?

[Obstructed_View]

I agree that he does all those things, but I think it's only been through hard work and rote learning of the system, not any inherent basketball aptitude.

I've never seen him make a great pass, for example. I would think someone with a high BBIQ would see and understand the game better than others, and because of that make better plays than other players.

Bonner makes correct plays for the system, but it's like he's studied an algorithmic flow chart to get to that point. By doing so little he reduces his weaknesses.

Perhaps a more concrete definition of BBIQ is needed. Is this inherent aptitude or can it be strictly learned?

Possibly, but it might be important to remember just how good NBA players are. A lot of guys that do well in college just never amount to anything due to their inability to adjust. Like Bonner or hate him, he's improved pretty dramatically since he arrived.

[T Park]

Possibly, but it might be important to remember just how good NBA players are. A lot of guys that do well in college just never amount to anything due to their inability to adjust. Like Bonner or hate him, he's improved pretty dramatically since he arrived.

Im of the opinion and Im sure its wrong, had the Spurs won game 1 last year, Bonner would've been the hero due to his shots, and that would've changed his mindset.

Im most likely wrong.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili have terrific BBIQs..

Timmy must be the center with the lowest average vertical leaps per game. As he has grown older and his athleticism has faded over the years, he has relied more and more and more on his BBIQ. It really is a treat watching him play. Before he used his IQ and his athleticism to simply own the post - jabbing, faking, outmuscling, dribbling etc to get the highest percentage shot..

Now he relies on confusing the centers by mixing his post game with jump shots and dribble steps. More than that, his play on the pick and roll is a thing to watch as well.

On defense, he must be the only blocker around who simply has to wait for the scorer to get his shot swatted away *into traffic*. He never gambles or leaves position in order to block. He is always in a position to get the defensive rebound and his outlet passes are terrific as well.

It has been a great mental exercise for us fans to see Duncan in his not-so-prime evening years where he simply out-thinks his opponent.

Manu on the other hand is simply a freak of nature. He not only has high BBIQ, he has BBESP (extra sensory perception). Very difficult to describe that. He is not an "out-thinker", but a "think out of the box"er. It is very difficult to coach that into a player. The only player I think that approximates Manu is that kid James Harden who is uncannily similar to Manu in many ways. Or perhaps Ricky Rubio.

[Blake]

So you're suggesting that Tony Parker has been a shooting guard his entire career. Allow me to sum up: You're an idiot.

What's the difference between a scoring point guard and a two guard that's a good passer?

I already conceded several posts back he's probably somewhere in between. You're getting angry over nothing. Again.

lol summing up

[SpursIndonesia]

What's the difference between a scoring point guard and a two guard that's a good passer?

I already conceded several posts back he's probably somewhere in between. You're getting angry over nothing. Again.

lol summing up

Tony Parker is a shooting guard who's a good passer, and Manu Ginobili is a point guard who's a good scorer, OK, i got your memo. :lol

[Supreme_Being]

If somebody is playing the PG position, then I guess that will make him a PG.

Seriously though, i think youre accusing tony of 'not being a PG', in the basis that he's not a pass first, playmaking PG. he never was and he never will. im not saying that he doesnt know how to pass or make plays because as he's demonstrated to us all season long, he can set up his team mates to score just fine, but taking all things into account, he's still a scoring PG. just like rose. and to a lesser extent, westbrook. i guess my point is, while those guys are not your prototypical stockton-like or nash-like PG they're still a PG but they have a different approach to the game and the position.

thanks for reading.

[Danny.Zhu]

Low: Mahinmi
High: Oberto

[kobyz]

What's the difference between a scoring point guard and a two guard that's a good passer?

ability to run a team!

[YoMamaIsCallin]

BBIQ is about seeing everything and knowing what is likely to happen next and next after that. It's also about understanding the game situation and being ready to do what's appropriate at a moment.

Example: in game 7 vs Detroit, very late 4th quarter, Manu has a layup. Instead of taking the shot he speed dribbles right past the basket and back to the 3 point line, when the shocked Pistons finally foul him after several more seconds have elapsed. That is BBIQ.

[InK]

i'll say Gary Neal has very good Basketball IQ, he just short, not overly skilled, slow and unathletic, but he still know how to be useful and effective, and he gets the most out of his abilities in a honorable manner and anytime that happened it's testify for hige IQ.
besides, playing in unnatural situation for him, having to play out of position, running the point and doing it relative well and successful is also an evidence for hige IQ.

The only thing Neal sees on the basketball court is the rim and he plays accordingly. Saying he maximizes on that skill set doesnt really mean he has BBIQ, just means he is realistic ( if we are kind) in differentiating what he can and can not do.

[Blake]

ability to run a team!

Manu does that from the 2.

Manu is a point guard in a 2 guard body, tbh.

[kobyz]

Manu does that from the 2.

Manu is a point guard in a 2 guard body, tbh.

but Manu can't defend the point and if he would have to run a team in a constantly way it will wear him out, generally Manu is a two guard!

[Blake]

but Manu can't defend the point

He can't?

News to me.


and if he would have to run a team in a constantly way it will wear him out, generally Manu is a two guard!

So you're saying the reason he's not a 1 is because he's not durable and can't defend other point guards?

Neat.

[ohmwrecker]

He can't?

News to me.



So you're saying the reason he's not a 1 is because he's not durable and can't defend other point guards?

Neat.

Kind of like saying TP isn't a PG because his assist stats aren't in double figures, right?

[Mel_13]

You guys are getting trolled. Arguing this point without a common set of criteria as to what defines a PG is committing yourselves to a battle with no chance of winning.

[ohmwrecker]

Mel_13 with the obligatory "you guys are getting trolled" goods.

[Blake]

Kind of like saying TP isn't a PG because his assist stats aren't in double figures, right?

No.

You said TP has a "classic set of point guard skills"

Define "classic set of point guard skills."

While you're at it, please do me a favor and define "classic set of shooting guard skills" so that we can be on the same page. Thanks.

[Blake]

Arguing this point without a common set of criteria as to what defines a PG is committing yourselves to a battle with no chance of winning.

Pretty much.

[ohmwrecker]

No.

You said TP has a "classic set of point guard skills"

Define "classic set of point guard skills."

While you're at it, please do me a favor and define "classic set of shooting guard skills" so that we can be on the same page. Thanks.

Nope. Defining SG skills has nothing to do with my argument. You brought Manu into this. You're deflecting. I'm not playing.

I will defend my statment by defining what I believe to be classic PG skills:

1. Running the offense (calling plays and sets, execution)
2. Ball handling and passing (low turnovers, court vision)
3. Lane penetration (collapsing defenses, opening perimeter)
4. Shooting and scoring (decent outside shot to keep defender honest and abilityto finish in the paint)
5. Defense (keep opposing PGs from accomplishing 1-4)

[Blake]

Nope. Defining SG skills has nothing to do with my argument. You brought Manu into this. You're deflecting. I'm not playing.

I'm not deflecting. A list of shooting guard skills would be great to check off to see which Tony fits into more.


I will defend my statment by defining what I believe to be classic PG skills:

1. Running the offense (calling plays and sets, execution)
2. Ball handling and passing (low turnovers, court vision)
3. Lane penetration (collapsing defenses, opening perimeter)
4. Shooting and scoring (decent outside shot to keep defender honest and abilityto finish in the paint)
5. Defense (keep opposing PGs from accomplishing 1-4)

1. A. If Gary Neal can do it, is it really a skill?
1. B. Manu runs the offense at times. Is he a point guard?

2-3. Doesn't Manu do that from the 2?

4-5. Pretty standard skills at any position.

You've helped further convince me that Manu is really a 1.
Not much there to convince me that Parker isn't more of a true 2 than a 1.

[ohmwrecker]

I'm not deflecting. A list of shooting guard skills would be great to check off to see which Tony fits into more.



1. A. If Gary Neal can do it, is it really a skill?
1. B. Manu runs the offense at times. Is he a point guard?
Dgf
2-3. Doesn't Manu do that from the 2?

4-5. Pretty standard skills at any position.

You've helped further convince me that Manu is really a 1.
Not much there to convince me that Parker isn't more of a true 2 than a 1.

Again, I am not debating whether or not Manu possesses PG skills. I defined and defended my statement that was in response to your assertion that Parker is not a PG because he does not average double figure assists. The point which you continue to evade and deflect.

[Blake]

Again, I am not debating whether or not Manu possesses PG skills. I defined and defended my statement that was in response to your assertion that Parker is not a PG because he does not average double figure assists. The point which you continue to evade and deflect.

lol evade and deflect. My opinion must mean a lot to you.

His low assist totals are just one of several reasons I don't see Tony as a classic point guard.

[ohmwrecker]

lol evade and deflect. My opinion must mean a lot to you.

His low assist totals are just one of several reasons I don't see Tony as a classic point guard.

:lol Not really, no. You're engaging me as much as I'm engaging you tbh.

Why don't you define the specific skills Parker lacks that keeps him from being a PG despite the fact that it is the position that he actually plays?

[Blake]

:lol Not really, no. You're engaging me as much as I'm engaging you tbh.

:lol you engaged first. I'm just being polite.


Why don't you define the specific skills Parker lacks that keeps him from being a PG despite the fact that it is the position that he actually plays?

Plain and simple, he's a scorer more than a passer. Is that something that anyone really disagrees with me on?

[ohmwrecker]

:lol you engaged first. I'm just being polite.

OK



Plain and simple, he's a scorer more than a passer. Is that something that anyone really disagrees with me on?

So, he's a scoring PG? Was Isiah Thomas a PG or a SG? Are you suggesting that Parker has no passing skills?

[Mel_13]

Plain and simple, he's a scorer more than a passer. Is that something that anyone really disagrees with me on?

4th in the NBA in assist % (trailing only Nash, Paul, and D. Williams):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=pts_per_g_req&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ast_pct


12th in the NBA in point per minute:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=pts_per_g_req&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_mp

The objective evidence says that he's a PG who scores very well.

[ohmwrecker]

A scoring PG it is! Are we done now?

[Blake]

So, he's a scoring PG?

Imo, yes.

A 2 guard in a 1 guard's body, imo.


Was Isiah Thomas a PG or a SG? Are you suggesting that Parker has no passing skills?

Isiah averaged 9 assists for his career. Easily a point guard.

And no to the 2nd question.

Lol clearly my opinion doesn't matter to you.

[ohmwrecker]

:lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Imo, yes.

A 2 guard in a 1 guard's body, imo.



Isiah averaged 9 assists for his career. Easily a point guard.

And no to the 2nd question.

Lol clearly my opinion doesn't matter to you.

So, according to you a player is a PG if they average over how many assists for their careers?

[Blake]

So, according to you a player is a PG if they average over how many assists for their careers?

I've never really thought much about it.

I just know that Tony's career assist average is rather low to call him a classic point guard.

[Blake]

Next up: my opinion on whether Duncan is a true power forward or not.

[ohmwrecker]

Next up: my opinion on whether Duncan is a true power forward or not.

Will that one end terribly with you resorting to :cry "you care about my opinion" schtick?

[Mel_13]

Ranking all players who played at least 100 games over the past 20 NBA seasons in terms of assist percentage. Tony Parker ranks 38th out of 1040 players at 32.5%. For comparison, Isiah Thomas ranks 21st at 36%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1993&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ast_pct

[Blake]

Will that one end terribly with you resorting to :cry "you care about my opinion" schtick?

If you end up caring about my opinion again, it just might.

[Drom John]

Parker's assists are hurt by the Spurs extra passes. The NHL does a better stat job. And that dribble rule is arbitrary.

A true point is whether you take the ball over half court and initiate the offense.