As a Spurs fan, this is why I don't get too excited, regardless of how unbeatable

[midnightpulp]

the Spurs look.

And just like the current Spurs team, the '04 Spurs looked invincible to close the season.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/k0oeue.jpg

They won 17 straight games until Game 3 of the Western Conference Semis, a series lost (as we all know) against a team they were favored against. The Lakers had no answers for Parker's penetration, or the pick-and-roll, so Phil threw his hands up in the air and desperately packed the paint, leaving the Spurs' shooters wide open. Should've been an easy enough counter for one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the league, but for those of you who haven't repressed the memories you have of the greatest choke job in franchise history, you'll not-so-fondly recall all the missed shots from Turkoglu, Bowen, Horry, and Ginobili, which allowed the Lakers' defense to squeeze Parker and Duncan, taking away the space they needed in the paint to be effective.

And like the '04 Spurs (or any other version of the Duncan-era Spurs for that matter), interior spacing is crucial to the offense's success, spacing that is highly dependent on outside shooting threats, and if those threats (Green, Leonard, Neal, etc) decide to emulate the '04 Spurs' shooters, we could be in for a rude awakening. And there's a possibility it could happen, which is why we should remain cautiously optimistic rather than start preemptively making room in the case for number 5.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Exactly look at last year.

[DMC]

There's no Kobe/Shaq presence in the West. I wouldn't consider Bynum to be anywhere close to Shaq's level.

However, it's noteworthy that the scoring was so low even going into the playoffs. Great defense, slow games.

We have fed off of the shooting of unproven players who might fold in post season. That's not news.

[ohmwrecker]

…2004?!

[FkLA]

Spurs were easily the best team in the West that year tbh. Arguably in the league right there with the Pistons. I hate to say it but they just always seemed to cower against the Lakers for some reason, starting with Pop. The better team lost that series imo. Still dont think Fishs shot shouldve counted either tbh.

[midnightpulp]

There's no Kobe/Shaq presence in the West. I wouldn't consider Bynum to be anywhere close to Shaq's level.

However, it's noteworthy that the scoring was so low even going into the playoffs. Great defense, slow games.

We have fed off of the shooting of unproven players who might fold in post season. That's not news.

My greatest concern.

I'm not even all that concerned with the frontline anymore since the integration of Splitter and the acquisition of Diaw has elevated the Spurs' interior from weak to good, but I do fear the outside shooting faltering in a key game. Think Game 6 of the '03 WCF. No one could hit a fuckin' shot and it took Kerr, who hadn't seen more than garbage time up until that point, to save their collective hides. I fear that same scenario happening, but like in '04, "Kerr" doesn't show up.

[Venti Quattro]

If San Antonio can't open up the lane, they're toast. LA gave a preview of that when they put a beatdown on San Antonio but SA were able to reverse it by opening up the lane in games 2 and 3 of the season series.

It happened in 2004, in 2008 and last year.

[midnightpulp]

Spurs were easily the best team in the West that year tbh. Arguably in the league right there with the Pistons. I hate to say it but they just always seemed to cower against the Lakers for some reason, starting with Pop. The better team lost that series imo. Still dont think Fishs shot shouldve counted either tbh.

How do you figure that? There's was no adjustment Pop could've made in the series that would've changed things. Phil's gameplan after game 2 was to cut off Parker's penetration and collapse on Duncan in the paint, which left Spur shooters wide open. At that point, all you have to do is hit shots, which the Spurs didn't.

[baseline bum]

Hedo Turkoglu single-handedly cost the Spurs a repeat trip to the Finals. :pctoss

[ElNono]

tbh, that Lakers team in '04 had a HoF coach and at least 4 HoF players... amazing how they choked against the Pistons...

[Venti Quattro]

tbh, that Lakers team in '04 had a HoF coach and at least 4 HoF players... amazing how they choked against the Pistons...

They could have won the title if Malone didn't get hurt. It's also one of my biggest what-ifs, not only because the Lakers wasted a title chance but of what could have happened down the road if they won it all in 2004.

[midnightpulp]

tbh, that Lakers team in '04 had a good coach and at least 4 HoFs... amazing how they choked against the Pistons...

Pistons were a machine. I don't think the Lakers choked at all. Kobe was god awful and made some truly terrible decisions in that series, but even if he played well, the Pistons win the series in 6 instead of 5.

[Sportcamper]

Hedo Turkoglu single-handedly cost the Spurs a repeat trip to the Finals.

Hedo Turkoglu is possibly the best NBA player for the past 7 years….

[baseline bum]

They could have won the title if Malone didn't get hurt. It's also one of my biggest what-ifs, not only because the Lakers wasted a title chance but of what could have happened down the road if they won it all in 2004.

Malone was getting his shit pushed in in game 1; lol @ thinking one of the all-time great chokers was saving your team in a series they came a couple of seconds from being swept out of.

[midnightpulp]

They could have won the title if Malone didn't get hurt. It's also one of my biggest what-ifs, not only because the Lakers wasted a title chance but of what could have happened down the road if they won it all in 2004.

He still played 4 games. Anyhow I don't think a 100 percent Malone changes the outcome of that series. You can make that argument if the Lakers lost in 7, but they lost in 5 and only cracked 90 points in one game.

[ElNono]

Pistons were a machine. I don't think the Lakers choked at all. Kobe was god awful and made some truly terrible decisions in that series, but even if he played well, the Pistons win the series in 6 instead of 5.

Wasn't Shaq shooting like 60%+ for the series? That one was on the Kobester, and the reason Phil walked shortly after.

[Venti Quattro]

I remember Kobe playing hero mode :lol and the Pistons were taking it like a reinforced wall

[midnightpulp]

Wasn't Shaq shooting like 60%+ for the series? That one was on the Kobester, and the reason Phil walked shortly after.

Yep.

[FkLA]

How do you figure that? There's was no adjustment Pop could've made in the series that would've changed things. Phil's gameplan after game 2 was to cut off Parker's penetration and collapse on Duncan in the paint, which left Spur shooters wide open. At that point, all you have to do is hit shots, which the Spurs didn't.

Not adjustments wise. I always just got a sense that the Spurs were intimidated by the Lakers. For the most part, theyve owned the Spurs in the playoffs over the years.

[z0sa]

Midnight brings the goods per the usual etc but if it takes a choke of pretty epic proportions for the Spurs to lose then I like the Spurs chances.

Also PJ has and always will own Pop unfortunately. With Potato Head on the sidelines he (probably) won't shit himself like he usually does vs LA.

[DMC]

I didn't think we'd be having this discussion this year. Can't complain.

[Venti Quattro]

Midnight brings the goods per the usual etc but if it takes a choke of pretty epic proportions for the Spurs to lose then I like the Spurs chances.

Thing is, we also heard the same last year. And it happened.

[Stalin]

Thing is, we also heard the same last year. And it happened.

hope you trolling spurfan when you bring up last year, brah

[Trainwreck2100]

04 phil said "fuck it parker make in open jumper" at which point parker did not. Game over series over. Also turk was shit through those entire playoffs, not just the laker series.

[irishock]

The Western Conference is not what it once was. In 2004 you had the Lakers obviously, along with the Mavs, Kings, Timberwolves all capable of winning the conference. This year only the Spurs and Thunder are capable, and the Spurs own the Thunder head to head.

[fevertrees]

TThis year only the Spurs and Thunder are capable, and the Spurs own the Thunder head to head.

:lol

[racm]

The last time the Spurs got backdoor swept in 6 they won it all the next, tbh...

[Koolaid_Man]

My greatest concern.

I'm not even all that concerned with the frontline anymore since the integration of Splitter and the acquisition of Diaw has elevated the Spurs' interior from weak to good, but I do fear the outside shooting faltering in a key game. Think Game 6 of the '03 WCF. No one could hit a fuckin' shot and it took Kerr, who hadn't seen more than garbage time up until that point, to save their collective hides. I fear that same scenario happening, but like in '04, "Kerr" doesn't show up.


Dude go back upstairs with this shit...No one..I mean no one outside of SA cares or gives a shit...The, Spurs are old, boring, lame, the Hornets and Bobcats bring higher ratings for the NBA,...Spurs have no All-stars, $4 beer sold at the games costs more than the actual game tickets, Duncan didn't make the Olympic team further proving he's nothing but a TOSB, Diaw,Toothless jack, and Patty Cake are your recent big signings...Manu looks like shit in the Olympics and his bald spot is growing bigger...Parker who got his ass kicked in a fight between rappers is on his last legs and can't defend anyone to save his life.

I think we've seen and had enough of the Spurs...absolutely nothing exciting about them what-so-ever...they're like a fatally wounded deer, after being shot, running wild in the woods only to drop a few seconds later.

Two years in a row they've had the best regular season record and then fizzled out like bad or watered down Sprite....their last title was in 2007...they tried repeating in 2008 and failed miserably at the hands of Kobe...that's when Spike Lee made the now world famous movie "Kobe Doing Work"... 2013 is fast approaching if Duncan and Co couldn't get past Kobe and Crew in 08 what in the hell makes you think they can do so in 2013...

Bookmark this next quote from the legendary Kool...

"Even If Kobe Never Wins Another Title, He's Devoted His Entire Career To Completely Owning The Spurs. If The Spurs Have To Go Through Kobe To Win A Title They Might As Well Quit Now." - Kool

[Clipper Nation]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/steve_aschburner/10/30/duncan.kareem/p1.td.jpg

[Koolaid_Man]

Hey Clippa *aka* Nipple Nation...I hate comparing players in different positions but here's to your substance over style argument:

Kobe vs Duncan head to head



This is from 2000 and on...(Since 99 was a asterisk season)

2001:

Lakers sweep

Kobe ave- 33ppg,7rpg, 7apg,

Duncan- 23ppg, 12rpg, 4apg,

2002:

Lakers win 4-1

Kobe-26ppg, 5.4rpg, 5apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 17rpg, 4.8apg,

2003:

Spurs win 4-2

Kobe- 32ppg, 5rpg, 4apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 12rpg, 4.8apg,

2004:

Lakers win in 6

Kobe- 26ppg, 6.3rpg, 6apg,

Duncan- 20ppg, 12rpg, 3apg,

2008:

Lakers win in 5

Kobe- 29ppg, 6rpg, 4apg,

Duncan: 22ppg, 17rpg, 4apg,

In the 5 series Kobes team has won 4/5 times
Kobe has averaged 29ppg, 6rpg, 5apg in the series while Duncan has averaged 24ppg,14rpg,4apg.



Kobe has beat Duncan 4 times in the playoffs last decade, while averaging more points and assist.

Quick facts: in his prime kobe averaged 32ppg, 9rpg, and 6apg per game verse the spurs
Kobe has more rings than duncan
(prime) Kobe is a better scorer, as well as a better passer, shooter, playmaker, clutch, than prime duncan...



Kobe overall numbers:
In 40145 minutes minutes..

27868 points
5829 rebounds
5154 assist
1653 steals
576 blocks

Tim Duncans overall numbers:
In 37733 minutes...

21663 points
12013 rebounds
3296 assist
784 steals
2381 blocks

Now take their career averages:
Kobe- 25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 5apg, 1.5spg,.5bpg, 45% FG
Duncan-20ppg,11rpg,3apg,0.7spg,2bpg, ,50% FG

Playoff averages:

Kobe-25ppg, 5rpg,5apg
Duncan-22ppg, 12rpg,3apg



Kobe- 7 finals, 5 rings, 1mvp, 2 finals MVP, 2 scoring titles, 9 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba first team, 14 time allstar




Duncan- 4 finals, 4 rings, 2 MVP, 3 finals MVP, 8 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba 1st team, 13 time allstar


Even if you hate Kobe, you gotta give him the edge on this one....

[racm]

Kobe's a scorer.

[Clipper Nation]

Hey Clippa *aka* Nipple Nation
Your comebacks are about as bad as Avante's, B... :lol


Long-winded Kobrick circlejerkI'd respond to your shit myself, but I found a blog post that breaks this debate down extremely well, tbh..... http://cesc-pistol.blogspot.com/2012/04/tim-duncan-is-better-than-kobe-bryant.html

Read that and educate yourself on a true legend, B.....

[Calispursfan11]

Spurs will contend again tbh.

[TheRealCB]

Hey Clippa *aka* Nipple Nation...I hate comparing players in different positions but here's to your substance over style argument:

Kobe vs Duncan head to head



This is from 2000 and on...(Since 99 was a asterisk season)

2001:

Lakers sweep

Kobe ave- 33ppg,7rpg, 7apg,

Duncan- 23ppg, 12rpg, 4apg,

2002:

Lakers win 4-1

Kobe-26ppg, 5.4rpg, 5apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 17rpg, 4.8apg,

2003:

Spurs win 4-2

Kobe- 32ppg, 5rpg, 4apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 12rpg, 4.8apg,

2004:

Lakers win in 6

Kobe- 26ppg, 6.3rpg, 6apg,

Duncan- 20ppg, 12rpg, 3apg,

2008:

Lakers win in 5

Kobe- 29ppg, 6rpg, 4apg,

Duncan: 22ppg, 17rpg, 4apg,

In the 5 series Kobes team has won 4/5 times
Kobe has averaged 29ppg, 6rpg, 5apg in the series while Duncan has averaged 24ppg,14rpg,4apg.



Kobe has beat Duncan 4 times in the playoffs last decade, while averaging more points and assist.
Quick facts: in his prime kobe averaged 32ppg, 9rpg, and 6apg per game verse the spurs
Kobe has more rings than duncan
(prime) Kobe is a better scorer, as well as a better passer, shooter, playmaker, clutch, than prime duncan...



Kobe overall numbers:
In 40145 minutes minutes..

27868 points
5829 rebounds
5154 assist
1653 steals
576 blocks

Tim Duncans overall numbers:
In 37733 minutes...

21663 points
12013 rebounds
3296 assist
784 steals
2381 blocks

Now take their career averages:
Kobe- 25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 5apg, 1.5spg,.5bpg, 45% FG
Duncan-20ppg,11rpg,3apg,0.7spg,2bpg, ,50% FG

Playoff averages:

Kobe-25ppg, 5rpg,5apg
Duncan-22ppg, 12rpg,3apg



Kobe- 7 finals, 5 rings, 1mvp, 2 finals MVP, 2 scoring titles, 9 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba first team, 14 time allstar




Duncan- 4 finals, 4 rings, 2 MVP, 3 finals MVP, 8 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba 1st team, 13 time allstar


Even if you hate Kobe, you gotta give him the edge on this one....

Damn,Lakers really own the Spurs :wow
Now post the Dirk-Kobe head-to-head :toast

[Koolaid_Man]

Damn,Lakers really own the Spurs :wow
Now post the Dirk-Kobe head-to-head :toast


It doesn't matter Dirk is done...

Kobe 5 Dirk 1 and done...Book Mark IT!!!!

[cesare borgia]

Duncan lost with best team:

2001, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2012

Duncan HCA


Well Duncan is now 23-6 in series with HCA

To compare that to the alltime greats that are top 10-15 here are there records

Michael Jordan 24-0 in series with HCA
Kareem 34-5 in series with HCA
Russell 22-1 in series with HCA
Magic 29-3 in series with HCA
Bird 24-7 in series with HCA
Wilt 13-5 in series with HCA
Hakeem 9-2 in series with HCA
Shaq 24-5 in Series with HCA
Kobe 27-2 in series with HCA and 25-2 in series where he was a starter.



Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1
Duncan: 15-5 / 8-1
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2
Kobe: 18-2 / 6-0

Here are the other power forwards all time as well

50 win teams/non-50 win teams

Garnett: 3-2 (60%) /6-0 (100%)
Dirk: 6-2 (75%) /2-1 (67%)
Malone: 4-4 (50%) /8-2 (80%)
Barkley: 2-1 (67%) 8-1 (89%)
KG 9-2
Dirk 9-3
Malone 12-6
Barkley 10-2

This!

[Juggity]

Duncan lost with best team
2001, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2012

Duncan HCA


Well Duncan is now 23-6 in series with HCA

To compare that to the alltime greats that are top 10-15 here are there records

Michael Jordan 24-0 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Kareem 34-5 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Russell 22-1 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Magic 29-3 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Bird 24-7 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Wilt 13-5 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Hakeem 9-2 in series with HCALuck_The_Fakers_
Shaq 24-5 in Series with HCA
Kobe 27-2 in series with HCA and 25-2 in series where he was a starter.

Code:
Luck_The_Fakers_
Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ HCA(50+)/non-50 Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Jordan: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 14-0 / 10-0 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_
Russell: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_10-0 / 12-1 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Shaq: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 11-2 / 12-2 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Magic: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_9-2 / 20-1 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_
Duncan: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 15-5 / 8-1 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Jabbar: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 11-3 / 23-2 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_
Olajuwon: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 4-0 / 5-2 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Bird: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 10-6 / 14-1 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
Wilt: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 4-3 / 9-2 Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_
Kobe: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ 18-2 / 6-0
Here are the other power forwards all time as well

Code:
Luck_The_Fakers_vs 50 win teams/non-50 win teamsLuck_The_Fakers_
Garnett: Luck_The_Fakers_ 3-2 Luck_The_Fakers_(60%) /6-0 (100%)Luck_The_Fakers_
Dirk: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_6-2 (75%) Luck_The_Fakers_/2-1 (67%)Luck_The_Fakers_
Malone: Luck_The_Fakers_ Luck_The_Fakers_4-4 (50%) Luck_The_Fakers_/8-2 (80%)
Barkley: Luck_The_Fakers_ 2-1 (67%) Luck_The_Fakers_/8-1 (89%)
KG 9-2
Dirk 9-3
Malone 12-6
Barkley 10-2

:lol why do you hate your own team so much, bro?

[cesare borgia]

:lol why do you hate your own team so much, bro?

When I copy and past that Luck The Faker crap show up. I should have preview it before I posted. Lol

[-21-]

Tbh, I always get excited when they go on a roll... But I also get extremely nervous knowing what has happened before. Last year was hard but I can't say I was shocked.