Our $14 Trillion dollar debt..

[Nbadan]

....who/how it accumulated in a nutshell...

http://i.imgur.com/Y8IYx.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

The debt is close to the historical tables from OMB (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist07z1.xls). Numbers in $ millions:

Before Reagan: 994,828

Reagan: 1,872,972

Bush (41): 1,483,244

Clinton: 1,418,837

Bush (43): 6,105,970 (8 years, 763,246/year)

Obama till 2011: 2,888,371 (2 years, 1,444,186/year)

Obama with estimates till 2013: 5,672,085 (4 year estimate, 1,418,021/year)

[EVAY]

....who/how it accumulated in a nutshell...

http://i.imgur.com/Y8IYx.jpg

That's a hell of a chart, Dan.

One thing not included from Bush 2nd that has impacted the level...the approval of TARP, at the request of the Bush administration, but not expended until the Obama presidency took effect. Lots of republicans blame all of that expenditure on Obama, but the authorization for it occurred at the request of
Bush, so some of Obama's expenditures should realistically be laid at Bush's door. Also, the continuation of the military expenditures under Obama have simply continued the Bush approvals.

Most of Obama's 'additions' to the debt have been the stimulus, 40% of which were tax decreases.

None of that matters, though, because the Republican Party has done, frankly, a brilliant job of hanging this debt around Obama's neck, and he has done a ridiculously poor job of explaining it. He deserves whatever he gets from this aspect.

But no one should imagine that the debt will improve under Republicans. They only talk about deficits when they are not in charge.

Remember Cheney's "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter"?

[Wild Cobra]

That's a hell of a chart, Dan.

One thing not included from Bush 2nd that has impacted the level...the approval of TARP, at the request of the Bush administration, but not expended until the Obama presidency took effect. Lots of republicans blame all of that expenditure on Obama, but the authorization for it occurred at the request of
Bush, so some of Obama's expenditures should realistically be laid at Bush's door. Also, the continuation of the military expenditures under Obama have simply continued the Bush approvals.

Most of Obama's 'additions' to the debt have been the stimulus, 40% of which were tax decreases.

None of that matters, though, because the Republican Party has done, frankly, a brilliant job of hanging this debt around Obama's neck, and he has done a ridiculously poor job of explaining it. He deserves whatever he gets from this aspect.

But no one should imagine that the debt will improve under Republicans. They only talk about deficits when they are not in charge.

Remember Cheney's "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter"?
What was senators Obama's vote on TARP?

[EVAY]

What was senators Obama's vote on TARP?

Identical to Senator McCain's vote on TARP.

[Wild Cobra]

My point is not to blame Bush.

Besides, the Fiscal year 2009 (Oct '08 to Set '09) budget is included in Bush's numbers, not Obama's. How much of tarp was spent in FY 2010 from the FY 2009 act? I believe none. There was a TARP II... right...

Now we also have to remember, these things must also pass the house and Senate. Which party was in control of congress?

Now I agree that Bush should have vetoed the bill. I was against it. Just the same, if you all want to place that on the prior president shoulders, then why hasn't the current one repealed the spending as soon as he took office?

[Wild Cobra]

Another thing not to forget is that any money repaid so far is credited to the FY 2010 or later budgets. Not the FY 2009 budget.

[EVAY]

My point is not to blame Bush.

Besides, the Fiscal year 2009 (Oct '08 to Set '09) budget is included in Bush's numbers, not Obama's. How much of tarp was spent in FY 2010 from the FY 2009 act? I believe none. There was a TARP II... right...

Now we also have to remember, these things must also pass the house and Senate. Which party was in control of congress?

Now I agree that Bush should have vetoed the bill. I was against it. Just the same, if you all want to place that on the prior president shoulders, then why hasn't the current one repealed the spending as soon as he took office?

You're kidding, right?

Bush's Treasury Secretary BEGGED on BENDED KNEE that Democrats support TARP.

Obama didn't stop it for the same reason he didn't pull out of both wars immediately. Changing course at that point in time would truly have made a bad situation worse, because the financial markets wanted reassurance that he would continue the bailout policy.

It wasn't that the bailouts were a good idea. It is that they were the only thing left to do at that late stage of the game.

Bush and Paulson pushed it. McCain supported it. Boehner supported it.

I sat and watched the stock market plummet after the Republicans in the House voted against it the first time.

Then they held a second vote and it passed. Markets didn't exactly recover until Obama made it clear that he was going to continue the policy of Paulsen and Geiner by naming Geitner to Treasury.

No, TARP belongs to Bush just as much as Iraq and Afghanistan belong to Bush.

[Wild Cobra]

You're kidding, right?

Bush's Treasury Secretary BEGGED on BENDED KNEE that Democrats support TARP. Do you remember the discussion in here back then? I suggest you refresh yourself with it. Yes, his secretary did. Bush isn't all knowing, and anyone who gains success surrounds himself with experts. In this case, the expert was wrong, or had motive to give wrong advice.

This was covered.

As for the begging...

That part is wrong, considering only about half republicans voted yes and nearly all democrats voted yes.

[Wild Cobra]

It wasn't that the bailouts were a good idea. It is that they were the only thing left to do at that late stage of the game.

"The best move is not to play."

They could have done nothing. The markets would have recovered faster if business and industry didn't have to worry about tax and regulation changes. Hell, we would very likely in my view be far better off than we are if government just kept it's meddling hands off. We most certainly can't be worse off.


Bush and Paulson pushed it. McCain supported it. Boehner supported it.

The people you guys call neocons, rather than conservatives. I call them RINO's.


I sat and watched the stock market plummet after the Republicans in the House voted against it the first time.

I recall the markets dropping before the vote, when the industry thought it would pass.


Then they held a second vote and it passed. Markets didn't exactly recover until Obama made it clear that he was going to continue the policy of Paulsen and Geiner by naming Geitner to Treasury.

After the second vote, the markets had a long downward slide. The markets recovered in their own good time. Not because of any announcement, and dammit... I missed the bottom of that market. Still made out fat and happy when I moved my retirement account from government bonds into stocks near the bottom of it.


No, TARP belongs to Bush just as much as Iraq and Afghanistan belong to Bush.

I agree he had a part in it. At least we can thank the republicans for a steadfast NO until it was put into law that TARP 1 money paid back could not be spent elsewhere.

Sure, both war fronts were started by Bush. He also signed the SOFA that got us out of Iraq last year, which libtards credit Obama for.

When is Obama going to sign a SOFA to get us out of Afganstan?

[spursncowboys]

You're kidding, right?

Bush's Treasury Secretary BEGGED on BENDED KNEE that Democrats support TARP.

Obama didn't stop it for the same reason he didn't pull out of both wars immediately. Changing course at that point in time would truly have made a bad situation worse, because the financial markets wanted reassurance that he would continue the bailout policy.

It wasn't that the bailouts were a good idea. It is that they were the only thing left to do at that late stage of the game.

Bush and Paulson pushed it. McCain supported it. Boehner supported it.

I sat and watched the stock market plummet after the Republicans in the House voted against it the first time.

Then they held a second vote and it passed. Markets didn't exactly recover until Obama made it clear that he was going to continue the policy of Paulsen and Geiner by naming Geitner to Treasury.

No, TARP belongs to Bush just as much as Iraq and Afghanistan belong to Bush.

Tarp was from both groups. The dems had the house and senate. Both groups were ok with it. Dodd was one of the biggest cheerleaders. Who knows how you would vote with fed reserve chairman and treasury sec say that tomorrow could be the beginning of the worst economical depression ever.

[Nbadan]

:lol

Sean Hannity.....where Obama debt morphs to $5-6 trillion....in 4 years