Prime Manu or Harden?

[TMTTRIO]

I was just reading an article on is Harden the best Sixth Man of the Year ever? Knowing they're quite similar players who would you take if Manu was still in his prime?

[Reck]

Harden is the closest thing to a Manu. He can improve but he's not quite there yet.

[NASpurs]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/James-Harden-1241/

Best Case: Manu Ginobili
Worst Case: Jason Terry

This should answer your question.

[DontStopBelieving]

A prime Manu over current Harden without question..

But don't forget that Harden still has plenty of development and improvement left, so (and I know I'm gonna be bashed for saying this) Prime Harden MAY just turn out to be a better overall player than a prime Manu..

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Manu. Eventually, in the next year or two, Harden will start, and at the tail end of his career, people will barely remember him as a sixth man.

[urunobili]

Harden is a balla'... his clutch as they come too. Though getting to 05 Manu's level is his ceiling TBH

[100%duncan]

Harden's not on his prime yet. But I'll still take Manu due to homerism.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu at his highest level was a top three SG for a few years IMO, Harden has a ways to go to get to All Star Manu level.

[jestersmash]

Manu at his highest level was a top three SG for a few years IMO, Harden has a ways to go to get to All Star Manu level.

Not really. One could easily make the case that Harden should have (and could have) been an all star this year.

Wouldn't surprise me if Harden ended up with a more decorated NBA career than Manu.

[Mikesatx]

I'll take todays Manu over todays Harden all day.

[ducks]

Harden alll day
play more minutes and is not hurt

[jestersmash]

I'll take todays Manu over todays Harden all day.

So let's say after the 2012 playoffs OKC offered to trade Harden for Manu straight up. Would you decline that offer?

[ducks]

Manu should never had been an all star

[ShoogarBear]

Ah, ducks. :lol

[dunkman]

Harden never did anything in the playoffs. Super Manu carried the Spurs trough various series. The last time it was vs the Hornets in '08. Plus Manu plays defense.

[Mikesatx]

So let's say after the 2012 playoffs OKC offered to trade Harden for Manu straight up. Would you decline that offer?


I wouldn't make the trade. I would also be willing to overpay Duncan a little bit as a gesture of loyaly, given his loyalty to our franchise. I think the thread is centering on talent and your question I think is centered on potential and future value. I would look at other things in addition to those things.

[Xevious]

Harden is still extremely young. We don't know what his ceiling is, but he's already all-star level talent if he starts. It may come down to minutes and health. Manu unfortunately has never been durable, that's his biggest weakness.

[urunobili]

Manu should have been a 4 time all star at least

FIFY

The year Roy got in was armed robbery and injuries depraved him from at least 1 or debatable 2 more games TBH

[Yorae]

A prime manu? for harden? you guys are insane....

[shyne]

Harden is more talented, but Manu is Manu a stone cold killer with a will to win that is unmatched by most. Harden has a long ways to go but could get there.

[Proxy]

Harden is far off from Manu. No homer.

[maverick1948]

Something else to consider. Harden came to the NBA at 20 years old. Manu was 25. Harden has played on a rebuilding team, while Manu has been on championship teams going back to his youth. When Hardin has won 3 rings, and a few more honors, he may join Manu as a top player, but he is still a long way behind.

[Obstructed_View]

Harden's not on his prime yet. But I'll still take Manu due to homerism.

:king

[spursfan1000]

Hardens potential is never ending. He can be twice the player manu was but it just depends how much effort he puts into practice. He really has everything, he scores like a monster , his defense needs some practice but no doubt he will practice that as his career goes on. Also he will have the luxury of playing next to Westbrook and Durant, which will not leave much pressure on him. He won't be rushed to pick his game up and he can slowly fix different parts of his game. Bright future there

I remember in 10' when spurs almost traded Manu to washington which where they could have gotten harden, I bet If we could go back there is no way spurs don't take that deal , I'm not saying harden is better then manu right now but he just has so much potential and Manu is really close to the end to his career

[Sense]

He'll never be playoff Manu, but I believe he'll have a better NBA career.. statistically.

[spursfan1000]

He'll never be playoff Manu, but I believe he'll have a better NBA career.. statistically.

I wouldn't be so sure, harden played spectacular in the Dallas series this year, he isnt scared

[Sense]

I wouldn't be so sure, harden played spectacular in the Dallas series this year, he isnt scared

Let's put it this way... I don't think he'll ever dominate the playoffs like 2005 Manu did.

There are a lot of great players that could never do what he did that year.

[spursfan1000]

Let's put it this way... I don't think he'll ever dominate the playoffs like 2005 Manu did.

There are a lot of great players that could never do what he did that year.

Well if we're talking about one year, I'm damn sure harden later in his career can dominate a playoff run. He had everything you need other then the experience, which he will get every single year.

[manu the best]

MANU is a GOD
and
Harden is a human
Simple as that

[MmP]

we're talking about 2005 super manu here, come on guys

[Sense]

Well if we're talking about one year, I'm damn sure harden later in his career can dominate a playoff run. He had everything you need other then the experience, which he will get every single year.


Yeah well... I'm saying I don't think he can.

Were you even a Spurs fan in 2005?

[spursfan1000]

Yeah well... I'm saying I don't think he can.

Were you even a Spurs fan in 2005?

Yes I've been a fan since 03',

[Sense]

Yes I've been a fan since 03',

Oh alright, but you were 10 or 11 in 05, I probably shouldn't expect you to understand the argument.

[spursfan1000]

Oh alright, but you were 10 or 11 in 05, I probably shouldn't expect you to understand the argument.

I was in fact 11 but I watched every single game and I've seen the championship video many times. I'm not saying manu wasn't a god at all, he was spectacular but what I am saying is harden has all the potential in the world, and he looks like he must have good worth ethic, sky is the limit for him.

[ALVAREZ6]

Prime? LMAO, Manu is far superior and it is not even close. Manu was a better defender and is the best passer among shooting guards in the league.

[ElNono]

Manu didn't win that award in his prime...

[MannyIsGod]

Manu and its not even close, IMO.

[Spurminator]

God, it's like some of you don't remember how great Manu was.

[roycrikside]

The question makes no sense. I love Manu as much as anyone, but we have no way of knowing or predicting what Harden's prime will be. It's only a question you can ask in the past tense of both of their careers.

I will say I'd take Manu in his prime over guys like Ray Allen and Reggie Miller.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd probably take Reggie in his prime over Manu, tbh. Its close, though.

:lol @ even bringing up Ray Allen.

[timvp]

Ginobili in his prime obviously.

Right now, I'd much rather have a healthy Ginobili than a healthy Harden. Harden is a very good player but he still has a ways to go before he lives up to his Next Ginobili potential.

[DMC]

Since Harden hasn't really done shit yet, it's a no brainer.

I think if you ask coaches and players, they pick Manu over Harden by a large margin. Harden has great game, but he's got a while to develop a resume he doesn't currently have.

[Spurs da champs]

Harden hasn't even hit his prime & he's damn good right now, in the end it will be close.

[roycrikside]

Oh, never mind. I misunderstood the question. Prime Manu over Harden now?

Yeah, that's stupid.

[Sense]

I was in fact 11 but I watched every single game and I've seen the championship video many times. I'm not saying manu wasn't a god at all, he was spectacular but what I am saying is harden has all the potential in the world, and he looks like he must have good worth ethic, sky is the limit for him.

Well like I said I don't think he can, I know it's too early to tell... but Manu is too unique to think there are more like him, especially when Harden is this young. It has nothing to do with statistics or Harden's statistics on a weak Mavericks team that got swept. Harden is a 3rd option right now, Manu was our first in the playoffs for some years for a reason. I don't see Harden being a first team option in the playoffs unless he got his own team.. which is very hard to predict this early.

[spurraider21]

someone else said it best. harden is awesome, but not as good as prime manu. however, since harden is still very young, its not out of the question to guess that prime harden could surpass prime manu

[SpursBills]

On a related note, if teams did the 2009 draft again, do you think Harden goes above Griffin? I think Griffin is pretty overrated - terrible post moves, doesn't play a lick of d, relies purely on his athleticism - and that Harden is actually the better player today.

[skulls138]

A Manu in rhythm is one of the best of all time. He is simply a maniac when he's hot, offensively and defensively.

[MannyIsGod]

On a related note, if teams did the 2009 draft again, do you think Harden goes above Griffin? I think Griffin is pretty overrated - terrible post moves, doesn't play a lick of d, relies purely on his athleticism - and that Harden is actually the better player today.

Hmm, now that is a good question. I think Blake still goes above him because I think Blake has the higher ceiling but I agree compltely about how overrated he is.

There were several plays last night where he got fouled in the lane and he didn't get a shot up on any of them. I think thats weak as hell if you're a big man in the NBA.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3ts3ncN3Y1rpznnqo1_400.png

[DMC]

On a related note, if teams did the 2009 draft again, do you think Harden goes above Griffin? I think Griffin is pretty overrated - terrible post moves, doesn't play a lick of d, relies purely on his athleticism - and that Harden is actually the better player today.

It depends on what the teams needs, but yes, Blake is highly overrated. He's an explosive dunker, not much else.

[TDMVPDPOY]

prime manu at one point was no.2 sg behind kobe.....

is harden going to reach that? where one day he be top3 sg for a season?

[Man In Black]

Manu and its not close. Harden is a very good doppelganger when it comes to 1 on 1 play, but its Manu's courtvision and feel that elevate him to top 3 status when he's on. 2005 Manu was that guy and 07 Manu was close.

[spursfan1000]

Well like I said I don't think he can, I know it's too early to tell... but Manu is too unique to think there are more like him, especially when Harden is this young. It has nothing to do with statistics or Harden's statistics on a weak Mavericks team that got swept. Harden is a 3rd option right now, Manu was our first in the playoffs for some years for a reason. I don't see Harden being a first team option in the playoffs unless he got his own team.. which is very hard to predict this early.

I 100% agree with you, I'm just saying he has the tools right now and all the potential in the world to maybe just maybe be as good as manu used to be.

[siraulo23]

fear the beard

[Proxy]

Harden is great... he has the tools physically but Manu is on another level mentally, thus giving him a one of the bigger offensive arsenals i the league and great defensive anticipation. Harden could never be a first option like Manu could in his prime. We can go on about the olympics and accolades, but I'll save my breath for something that seems redundant. The only thing Harden will get as a similarity would be stats to Manu and it wouldn't be an stretch to play the injury card when 2005 was the standard.

[blizz]

I'm sorry that's not even debatable. Manu in his prime.....remember that game against the suns when he scored 54 I think was? Harden could never do that. Gino just has this crazy competitive edge that few have ever had. It's on par with Jordan, Kobe and Bird. He has this fire within that few have ever had. Fuck in his prime I'd take him over Harden now and whatever Harden ever becomes. Hands down.

[Sense]

I 100% agree with you, I'm just saying he has the tools right now and all the potential in the world to maybe just maybe be as good as manu used to be.

And I'm saying I don't think he will, so I don't think you agree 100% with me..

[Sense]

I'm sorry that's not even debatable. Manu in his prime.....remember that game against the suns when he scored 54 I think was? Harden could never do that. Gino just has this crazy competitive edge that few have ever had. It's on par with Jordan, Kobe and Bird. He has this fire within that few have ever had. Fuck in his prime I'd take him over Harden now and whatever Harden ever becomes. Hands down.

I believe he scored 47 or 48 points against the Suns, he never got past 50.

That also happened in a 2 over time game against one of the highest scoring teams of this era. You can't claim that just because he scored those points he is better, he was at his prime around that time though.

[blizz]

It's about how he carried the team and came up with points when we needed them. They knew who we were going to and he killed them. The killer instinct. The way he did it. When he had to when we needed it. Jordanesque. Kobesque. Harden cannot do that. He's a young Jason terry.

[Sense]

It's about how he carried the team and came up with points when we needed them. They knew who we were going to and he killed them. The killer instinct. The way he did it. When he had to when we needed it. Jordanesque. Kobesque. Harden cannot do that. He's a young Jason terry.

Oh I agree with you..

that was probably one of my favorite regular season games as a Spurs fan... what happened that game was just that.. Jordanesque...

although Duncan also came up big in that game.

Well looks like I have to watch that game now...

[blizz]

Don't get me wrong guys. I like Harden and I think he's a great player. I just don't think he has what Manu has inside. That's just MHO.

[blizz]

Oh I agree with you..

that was probably one of my favorite regular season games as a Spurs fan... what happened that game was just that.. Jordanesque...

although Duncan also came up big in that game.

Well looks like I have to watch that game now...

I wish I had that game to watch it. He was unreal. I will always remember that game.

[Spurtacus]

Question better asked in a few years once Harden has hit his prime. This is only his third year in the league and he's only 22. For all we know he could go on to win x5 6th man of the year awards and multiple NBA Finals MVPs.

[jesterbobman]

Manu and harden are comparable as middle usage, Super Efficiency guys. Offensively, it's a wash, their teams are amazing with them on the court, even if they aren't always the ones scoring.

Defensively there is a difference, which is why Super Manu is ahead. Harden could get there though.

[MmP]

Can Harden handle the pressure of the ball in a game 7 of the finals in the final minutes? today i can't really think he'd even had the opportunity

[DAF86]

Harden is more talented.

In what way is Harden more talented? He does everything Manu does only a little bit worse.

[Mal]

I remember I was kinda rooting for that trade which would send Manu to Wizards to get their high lottery pick. I wanted to draft Harden at the time, but they got 5th in lottery, which meant no Harden.

[HarlemHeat37]

Most of the people in this thread haven't watched Harden play very often, tbh..

Right now, Harden is better than Ginobili..Manu is old, and while he's still a very good player, he's not physically reliable, at this point..also, we have yet to see Manu play at his usual level on a consistent basis, since returning from injury..

They're very comparable players, as jester pointed out.. they're both extremely efficient, they've both accepted the role of 6th man, they're both great passers that you can run a versatile offense through..

Ignoring clutch play and intangibles, since Harden hasn't reached that point of his career, the primary difference between the two players is that prime Ginobili was a very good and underrated defensive player, while Harden is a notably poor defensive player..

[Horse]

Amazing how many of you forgot what a healthy Manu was like. I thought this question was a joke.

[tlongII]

Manu.

[mingus]

manu and its not even close, imo.

+1

[GrandeDavid]

Not even a close comparison. Manu all the way!

[bulakenyo]

My 2nd favourite Spur of all time.

No contest.

First time seeing him play was a bit like Neo seeing the Matrix.

I'm also a lefty, and he made me see what can be done inside the court as a daredevil slashing, passing guard.

He has natural flair in his game. It's not hotdogging or trying to being cute.
It's just naturally amazing to watch.

[101A]

Remember when 50 won (rightfully) the league mvp while Hakeem looked on? Remember hoe Hakeem beat Robinson about the head with that trophy? 50 was great, but Hakeem had a whole other level to go to when motivated. Manu has that level. If the Spurs and OKC advance, Manu will end this debate emphatically, IMO.

[Proxy]

Ignoring clutch play and intangibles, since Harden hasn't reached that point of his career

Well, that's a big part of what makes Manu great. Probably the biggest thing tbh, so it makes little sense to ignore that or any aspect of either player's game when comparing them head to head.

Prime Manu can carry a team; Harden cannot. Seems pretty simple.

[smaka]

Harden will never be what Manu is or was.