Charter schools more efficient? +30% more $$/student

[boutons_deux]

report comparing per-student spending found charter schools “substantially” outspending neighboring traditional public schools — challenging the claim that charters achieve higher performance with less money.

charter networks in New York and Texas that spent at least 30 percent more per pupil than traditional public schools with similar student populations.

study included debt repayment for bonds that build or renovate facilities in its Texas calculations of total school district revenue per pupil. And there, he said, charter schools like KIPP still outspent district schools by thousands of dollars per pupil.

charters like KIPP, which employ “no excuses” strategies, are raising student outcomes but these “marginal increases” could come with significant costs.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/Report-Charters-outspend-public-schools-3554405.php

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So the VRWC/ALEC push to destroy public schools by suckering people into for-profit charter schools as "cheaper and more effective" is just another lie.

I suppose the charter schools will say they cost more so they will ask for (more) taxpayer dollars, which was the objective from the beginning.

Does anybody really think Murdoch is getting into education as a philanthropic effort?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203914304576631100415237430.html

Murdoch has taken a sudden interest in the plight of poor American school children languishing in substandard schools, which he says have lower standards than "American Idol." Of course, Murdoch's interest in public schools seems mostly because of the money to be made there. He's said that he sees the American education sector as a $500 billion market that's largely been untapped by companies like his. News Corp. ventured into this world last year by purchasing the ed tech company Wireless Generation and hiring former New York City schools chancellor Joel Klein.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/10/rupert-murdoch-compares-us-education-system-third-world-countrys

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"Christian" charter schools are probably more effective in dumbing down the students in science and math while indoctrinating them with "Christian" Biblical/creationism/AGW-denial bullshit.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you also forget these charter schools charge excess fees, while robbing the govt for school funding, while the public schools get shit whatever is left of the pie...oh yeh those private schools usually belong to some religious groups/organizations that operate on land that pay shit all for taxes/rates, let alone gettin free land on startups in rich neighborhoods then benefiting from it when they sell the property.....

[spursncowboys]

Because charters receive less state funding, several rely on philanthropic organizations and private donations.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/Report-Charters-spend-more-than-public-schools-3554405.php#ixzz1um8apGb0

:lmao

[spursncowboys]

So BD who thinks all rich people's money should go to benefitting the poor is against giving poor kids an actual education because it will cost too much for the taxpayers?

classic mcgruber

[DMX7]

Most advocates of charter schools here don't care about giving kids a "better" education - it's about sticking it to any public institution.

[spursncowboys]

DMX: Like who? This is one of the biggest things I vote on. I honestly think the libs backing the teacher union over kid's future. That was most noticable when obama stopped the voucher system that sent dc kids to the school he is sending his daughters to. In DC's situation it is cheaper per student on the tax payers for a voucher. Then again if libs actually better people's live's they'll lose voting blocs

[DMX7]

You don't have to choose between backing a union or the future of children. You can do both.

[spursncowboys]

I agree DMX. I just don't think the libs, and Obama, does.

[boutons_deux]

So BD who thinks all rich people's money should go to benefitting the poor is against giving poor kids an actual education because it will cost too much for the taxpayers?

I think that? I said that? link?

[Capt Bringdown]

DMX: Like who? This is one of the biggest things I vote on. I honestly think the libs backing the teacher union over kid's future. That was most noticable when obama stopped the voucher system that sent dc kids to the school he is sending his daughters to. In DC's situation it is cheaper per student on the tax payers for a voucher. Then again if libs actually better people's live's they'll lose voting blocs

Both Republican and Democrats have been walking away from voucher-based "reforms" prior to this election cycle. It's a branding move, essentially. Race To The Top accomplishes the same thing (privatization of public institutions), and has the same goals as the voucher system.
Obama has been the charter school movement's best friend, as are Democrats For Education Reform.

I'm sure we'll see lots of noise about the supposed differences between the 2 parties regarding education policy since this is an election year, but the corporate education reform agenda is very much a neoliberal (markets uber alles) Washington-consensus affair. Case in point:

Striking new tone, Chris Christie says education reform is led by GOP (http://news.yahoo.com/striking-tone-chris-christie-says-education-reform-led-212709494.html;_ylt=A2KJjanKZ7BP2lsAplTQtDMD)

Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey, said Thursday that Republican politicians are leading the way for better educational opportunities for poor and minority children through voucher programs for private schools, while Democrats passively stand by or obstruct their efforts. The partisan framing of his education agenda is a bit of a departure from Christie's earlier praise of President Barack Obama's education reforms, and may hint at how the issue will play out in the presidential campaign.

[boutons_deux]

Republican politicians are leading the way for better educational opportunities for poor and minority children through voucher programs for private schools

Repugs give a shit about poor/minority kids' education? :lol

It's the ALEX/VRWC strategy to give taxpayer taxes to for-profit, non-unionized schools, no matter what the educational effectiveness is. Always follow the money and politics.

Repugs give a shit about poor/minority kids' education? :lol :lol :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

I know this didn't get past your confirmation bias filter the first time I posted it, so I'll take another run at it.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/press-releases/Pages/new-charter-school-partnerships-101207.aspx
Bill & Melinda Gates....ALEX monsters!:lmao

[boutons_deux]

Gates and his rich bitch are also pushing vaccines world-wide. Kid screwed up by their vaccines are just "the cost of doing business".

what's ALEX?

[TeyshaBlue]

"alex/vrwc"

[TeyshaBlue]

Gates and his rich bitch are also pushing vaccines world-wide. Kid screwed up by their vacciens are just "the cost of doing business".

what's ALEX?

Where did they say that? Link plz.

[boutons_deux]

"alex/vrwc"

WTF is ALEX?

[TeyshaBlue]

btw..there are structural reasons behind the charter school/public school funding levels. Care to figure that out or are you just going to bask in the ignorance of your bias?

[TeyshaBlue]

WTF is ALEX?

You tell me. You wrote it, bot.

[boutons_deux]

Where did they say that? Link plz.

Do your own research

-- WC

[TeyshaBlue]

Republican politicians are leading the way for better educational opportunities for poor and minority children through voucher programs for private schools

Repugs give a shit about poor/minority kids' education? :lol

It's the ALEX/VRWC strategy to give taxpayer taxes to for-profit, non-unionized schools, no matter what the educational effectiveness is. Always follow the money and politics.

Repugs give a shit about poor/minority kids' education? :lol :lol :lol

:rolleyes

[TeyshaBlue]

Do your own research

-- WC

Yeah, you're about at his level of discourse and debate. :facepalm:

[boutons_deux]

:rolleyes

alec

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh. I can't keep up with your acronyms, much less the misspelled ones.

[boutons_deux]

you can't keep up, period. gfy

[TeyshaBlue]

you can't think in a non-linear manner. gfy

[Splits]

l_htSPGAY7I

Need to deregulate charter schools even more.

[Nbadan]

Private schools are just another way for the rich to stick it to the poor.....in Finland, who consistently have the best educated kids, there are no private schools......that way, the rich have a vested interest in improving the public school system...

[boutons_deux]

Private schools are just another way for the rich to stick it to the poor.....in Finland, who consistently have the best educated kids, there are no private schools......that way, the rich have a vested interest in improving the public school system...

segregation (by skin and economic class) and Christian extremist indoctrination in Christian madrassas are primary motivations for whites and Christian Taliban, but the motivation of the VRWC/BigCorop wealthy is to get their filthy hands on $Ts of taxes that support public schools while destroying teachers unions as Dem financial supporters.

[rmt]

Sometimes I doubt whether you guys really want what is best for kids' education. Why do you care who does the educating if the result is better for the kids? Does it matter whether it's a private entity or not? Why then do you continue to be against school choice and for strong teachers' unions (and the inability to get rid of bad teachers) - basically trapping poor kids in bad schools and giving them no choice in the matter.

[boutons_deux]

I never doubt rmt is totally misinformed and ignorant, willfully.

[CosmicCowboy]

I never doubt rmt is totally misinformed and ignorant, willfully.

That's really rich coming from Boutons, the forum clown act.

[rmt]

The charter schools here in Miami-Dade and Broward have LONG waiting lists and are highly desirable to parents. They might not be so where you are but school choice gives students a CHOICE. If a charter school (or public school) is bad, then it should go the way it does in the private sector, out of business.

[boutons_deux]

That's really rich coming from Boutons, the forum clown act.

Join TSA in licking your bloody butt, stalker

[CosmicCowboy]

You are such a racist hateful piece of shit. Way to continue to demonstrate your "Christianity" you worthless twat

C'mon dude. That shit is uncalled for.

[CosmicCowboy]

Maybe so. But her inability to form even the most basic thought without having it fed to her is pathetic. And her overt racism and classism along with her complete misrepresentation of the teachings of Christ, due to the very same fucks that give her her opinions is offensive.

She basically just stated fact. The charter schools in Broward County Florida have long waiting lists. it's an easy google fact to verify. It certainly makes one wonder why the parents want their kid to go there if they aren't doing a better job of educating kids than the alternative.

[RandomGuy]

Sometimes I doubt whether you guys really want what is best for kids' education. Why do you care who does the educating if the result is better for the kids? Does it matter whether it's a private entity or not? Why then do you continue to be against school choice and for strong teachers' unions (and the inability to get rid of bad teachers) - basically trapping poor kids in bad schools and giving them no choice in the matter.

... and if charter schools have no oversight, as Mr. Oliver pointed out, this "free market" experiment isn't like pizza. Kids and parents lives and education are at stake.

I agree we should get rid of bad teachers, but I don't think that, in and of itself, is a panacea. Plenty of places with weak unions have shitty education.

[boutons_deux]

bad teachers

bad teachers are like Muslim terrorists, used by the rightwingnuts/Repugs/VRWC to denigrate, persecute, criminalize the entire class.

[CosmicCowboy]

Did you seriously just ask that? The difference between a funded school where they can select their students vs public schools in red states where the state actively cuts funding?

congrats you just proved to be mongoloid stupid

Where did you read that funds were cut for non-charter schools because of charter schools? The people in Florida seem to tell a different story.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article64658637.html

[rmt]

Magnet and charter school students here are chosen by lottery. The only advantage is for siblings of students already in the school (so it easier for the family/transportation) and even the siblings are in a lottery too - siblings are not automatically in.

I worked for the School Board and in addition to 10 sick days, 2 personal days and 13 public holidays every year, I got 3 weeks vacation for the first 2 1/2 years. After that, I got 5 weeks vacation. Employees are vested after 6 years and all the sick and vacation leave is calculated into the pension. When I had my first child, I took 1 year maternity leave and another year personal leave. I had my second child and took another year maternity - that's 3 years when the School Board paid my health, legal, disability, life, etc insurance. Multiply that by thousands of teachers/administrators for 30-48 years and their pension until age 87-88. Now, I realize that this might be overly generous compared to others as Miami-Dade is the 4th largest school district in the nation but one can see how a charter school which is not bound to benefits/time off package could run more efficiently and cheaper - they can also get rid of bad teachers as there is no union to contend with.

Next school year, Florida will have complete public school choice - you can go to any public school (even across county lines) in Florida as long as there is space. This will allow any parent who is unhappy with their school to place their child in any school along their way to work, in relatives' schools or near to work.

[CosmicCowboy]

Magnet and charter school students here are chosen by lottery. The only advantage is for siblings of students already in the school (so it easier for the family/transportation) and even the siblings are in a lottery too - siblings are not automatically in.

I worked for the School Board and got 3 weeks vacation for the first 2 1/2 years. After that, I got 5 weeks vacation in addition to 10 sick days, 2 personal days and 13 public holidays. Employees are vested after 6 years and all the sick and vacation leave is calculated into the pension. When I had my first child, I took 1 year maternity leave and another year personal leave. I had my second child and took another year maternity - that's 3 years when the School Board paid my health, legal, disability, life, etc insurance. Multiply that by thousands of teachers/administrators for 30-48 years and their pension until age 87-88. Now, I realize that this might be overly generous compared to others as Miami-Dade is the 4th largest school district in the nation but one can see how a charter school which is not bound to benefits/time off package could run more efficiently and cheaper - they can also get rid of bad teachers as there is no union to contend with.

Next school year, Florida will have complete public school choice - you can go to any public school (even across county lines) in Florida as long as there is space. This will allow any parent who is unhappy with their school to place their child in any school along their way to work, in relatives' schools or near to work.

Dang. Bet they can get some ringer football teams that way.