lmao bill simmons

[rayjayjohnson]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7946461/the-nba-award-winning-playoffs


Even if Miami–Oklahoma City is the Pipe Dream Finals (just from an entertainment standpoint), no pure basketball fan would refuse a Celtics-Spurs matchup: an old-school battle featuring seven Hall of Famers, two elite coaches, and two proud teams that love playing together, and even better, know how to play together? Putting Duncan vs. Garnett, Rondo vs. Parker, Popovich vs. Doc, the 1997 lottery and every other subplot aside for a second, when you remember what decade we're in — here's a reminder, in case you forgot — the familiarity of that Finals matchup would make it more special than anything.

I would. Who wants to watch a finals sweep?

What a phaggot.

[HarlemHeat37]

He's right, tbh..

[Xylus]

Spurs-Celtics would be one of the best Finals matchups of the last decade.

[rayjayjohnson]

No, he's not. The Celtics looked sloppy against the Hawks and have dropped a game at home to the worst team in the league since the all star break bar the bobcats.

the spurs would skull fuck their ancient asses.

[Venti Quattro]

This series has been four years in the making and it would have happened if San Antonio didn't lose a 20-point lead in Game 1 of the 2008 Western Conference Finals.

[Spurtacus]

Duncan vs Garnett in the Finals.

Bout time.

[rayjayjohnson]

More importantly though, :lmao thinking the celtics can make the finals to begin with. Both the heat and the pacers have their number.

[rayjayjohnson]

Duncan vs Garnett in the Finals.

Bout time.

i want them mic'd up so I can hear them compare arthritis meds.

[HarlemHeat37]

That's not the point..

The Spurs would beat them in 5-6 IMO, but the matchups and storylines would be great..

Garnett vs. Duncan would be historic
Duncan and the 1997 draft

Good positional matchups in Rondo vs. Parker, Ginobili vs. Pierce..

Two teams that were completely counted out, at the start of the season..

[JamStone]

7 HOFers?

[024]

7 HOFers?
maybe he's counting the coaches. allen/pierce/kg/rivers/pop/duncan/ginobili.

[rayjayjohnson]

7 HOFers?

remember, it's simmons.

it's duncan, pierce, allen, garnett, rondo, bass and stiemsma

[DMC]

This series has been four years in the making and it would have happened if San Antonio didn't lose a 20-point lead in Game 1 of the 2008 Western Conference Finals.

The Spurs would have gotten ass raped by the Celtics. They lost a 22pt lead earlier that year, in SA, against Boston while Boston was on the triangle trip (Boston swept Texas btw). Spurs went up 22 in the first quarter, but lost the game. That Celtics team, comparatively speaking, was a juggernaut.

[HarlemHeat37]

maybe he's counting the coaches. allen/pierce/kg/rivers/pop/duncan/ginobili.

Parker, not Rivers..

[rayjayjohnson]

maybe he's counting the coaches. allen/pierce/kg/rivers/pop/duncan/ginobili.

he thinks TP and rondo are too.

[DMC]

7 HOFers?
Many analysts consider Tony a potential HOFer.

Tony, Tim, Manu, KG, Allen, Pierce and Rondo. I don't think Doc is a HOFer but Pop is, but most analysts don't consider coaches when they use that term.

It would be a good matchup, but OKC is winning it all this year if Bosh isn't back real soon.

[JamStone]

He went on to say "two elite coaches" right after "seven Hall of Famers" suggesting he wasn't including Pop. Already claiming Rondo a HOFer is ridiculous, even for Bill Simmons. And although they both have a very good chance, neither Parker or Manu are a lock for the HOF at this point. Maybe both are likely, but I wouldn't just say that flippantly to throw that 7 HOF comment around.

Shrugs, it's whatever. The comment just struck me as odd.

[Venti Quattro]

Tony should find more success in the international level to further cement his HoF cause.

If he leads France to a 2nd place finish against the United States (nobody is beating the US, period), his case will significantly increase because that would have already meant beating other powerhouses like Argentina and Spain.

[DMC]

He went on to say "two elite coaches" right after "seven Hall of Famers" suggesting he wasn't including Pop. Already claiming Rondo a HOFer is ridiculous, even for Bill Simmons. And although they both have a very good chance, neither Parker or Manu are a lock for the HOF at this point. Maybe both are likely, but I wouldn't just say that flippantly to throw that 7 HOF comment around.

Shrugs, it's whatever. The comment just struck me as odd.

Then it must be Gary Neal.

[rayjayjohnson]

chris mullin got in.

tp has a finals mvp. he'll get int.

[rayjayjohnson]

chris mullin got in.

tp has a finals mvp. he'll get int.

[ffadicted]

Manu is HOF lock imo, and if Tony gets another finals MVP this year he's probably in as well.

[jestersmash]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=5-on-5-110712

2. Is Manu Ginobili a Hall of Famer?


David Thorpe, Scouts Inc.: He is, indeed. Manu's savvy scoring talents worked perfectly within the Spurs' system, and his passing gifts allowed the Spurs to employ a score-first point guard. Tim Duncan is a top-10 player historically, but Ginobili was a perfect scoring guard to pair with him as well, thanks to excellent shot selection and a huge heart. Few players at that position were better than Manu in his prime, and all who were will be Hall of Famers, too.

Jay Aych, The Painted Area: Absolutely. Manu's NBA stats and accolades stack up favorably compared to Joe Dumars'. Would Ginobili get into an NBA-only HOF? Probably, but that's debatable. When you take into consideration his European accomplishments pre-NBA and his success with the Argentine national team, Manu is a lock next to Bill Bradley, the only player to win Olympic gold, Euroleague title and NBA title.

Rob Mahoney, The Two Man Game: Absolutely. What Ginobili's résumé lacks in longevity, it makes up for it with a string of incredible successes. From 2002-07, Ginobili became an All-Star, posted an average player efficiency rating of 21.1, won three NBA titles, championed Argentina to a gold medal in the Olympic games and led his team to a second-place finish in the FIBA World Championship. Throw that Ginobili did for the "euro step" in the NBA what Allen Iverson did for the crossover, and he certainly qualifies as a basketball luminary.

Jonathan Santiago, Cowbell Kingdom: Ginobili has been a key cog on each of the Spurs' championship teams of the past decade. And internationally, he led a team that dethroned the United States in the Olympics for the first time since the U.S. started sending professionals.

Jared Wade, 8 Points In 9 Seconds: Yes. He won three NBA titles, an Olympic gold medal, a Euroleague title and an Italian league title. Individually, he has two All-NBA selections, a Sixth Man award, a Euroleague MVP and a few Italian league MVPs. On pure talent, he is no Kobe or Dwyane. He's not even Drexler or Dumars. But he is so accomplished that he gets the nod.



4. Is Tony Parker a Hall of Famer?


David Thorpe, Scouts Inc.: Yes. It's not just the rings, either. For years, Parker has literally been one of the top paint scorers in the league. Try these numbers on for size: In the past five seasons, Parker has never made less than 62.7 percent of his rim shots, while current MVP Derrick Rose made 60 percent of his last season, his best showing ever. When a team's point guard can get to the rim and finish like Parker can, everything else on offense flows so much more easily. Inch for inch and pound for pound, Parker had a stretch as probably the most potent offensive weapon in the NBA.

Jay Aych, The Painted Area: Obviously his NBA career has a lot in common with Ginobili's, so I'll say yes. Parker is maybe the best international point guard ever after Steve Nash. He also was a key figure on three NBA title teams and was Finals MVP in 2007. However, he does not have quite the résumé that Manu and Pau have in FIBA play.

Rob Mahoney, The Two Man Game: Maybe. Parker's career, more than that of any other player included in this space, depends on the years to come. Like Ginobili, Parker is a three-time champion. He also has a trio of All-Star appearances to his name and a handful of highly productive seasons. But Parker has yet to reach the heights that Ginobili once claimed and hasn't had the same level of international success. Parker may be a Hall of Famer yet, but he's not quite there.

Jonathan Santiago, Cowbell Kingdom: I'm iffy about Parker because unlike Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, he's never really won as the focal point of a team. Duncan has always been the centerpiece of all the Spurs' championship teams, and Ginobili, as I said earlier, led Argentina to a gold-medal victory in the Olympics. With that said, he's probably a Hall of Famer simply by being the most decorated basketball player to emerge from France.

Jared Wade, 8 Points In 9 Seconds: Nope. He is a huge step below both Manu and Pau in talent and can't come close to matching their decorated international careers. I'm not even sure there is a legitimate case to be made for Parker, unless perhaps you think Chauncey Billups or Horace Grant is a Hall of Famer.



All 5 are pretty certain on Ginoibli's HOF-worthiness, but for Parker as of July 2011 it's: yes, yes, maybe, iffy, no

Parker's definitely on the bubble, but Ginobili has the "Bill Bradley" thing going for him (the only other player besides Bradley to win the Euroleague, have an olympic gold, and an nba championship).

[DMC]

You have to consider that Tony is 30 years old and has at least 5 years left, maybe 10. He basically has as much ahead of him as behind him, so he could wither away and be forgotten or he could post a few more great years at PG. Right now, if he retired, he would be in the conversation but probably not get it.

[rayjayjohnson]

You have to consider that Tony is 30 years old and has at least 5 years left, maybe 10. He basically has as much ahead of him as behind him, so he could wither away and be forgotten or he could post a few more great years at PG. Right now, if he retired, he would be in the conversation but probably not get it.

lol 40 year old point guard contributing.

[jestersmash]

I can see someone like Rondo playing into his late 30s a la Kidd/Nash, but not Tony Parker.

[Solid D]

Simmons is spot-on. Good take. Boston is hard-nosed and would be the one team who could hold the Spurs under 100 consistently.

With regard to HOF bids for Manu and TP, the basic differences between Tony's chances and Manu's are that TP was a reserve for Paris Basket Racing and hasn't helped the French win a Gold Medal in the Olympics yet. They do have the same number of NBA championships and if they win a ring this year, it's very possible both end up in the Hall whether TP wins gold this summer or not.

[tesseractive]

Simmons is spot-on. Good take. Boston is hard-nosed and would be the one team who could hold the Spurs under 100 consistently.

With regard to HOF bids for Manu and TP, the basic differences between Tony's chances and Manu's are that TP was a reserve for Paris Basket Racing and hasn't helped the French win a Gold Medal in the Olympics yet. They do have the same number of NBA championships and if they win a ring this year, it's very possible both end up in the Hall whether TP wins gold this summer or not.

If Tony wins a second Finals MVP -- not unlikely if the Spurs can win out -- he's going to the Hall of Fame, end of discussion.

[tesseractive]

lol 40 year old point guard contributing.
Jason Kidd is 39.

[Brazil]

He went on to say "two elite coaches" right after "seven Hall of Famers" suggesting he wasn't including Pop. Already claiming Rondo a HOFer is ridiculous, even for Bill Simmons. And although they both have a very good chance, neither Parker or Manu are a lock for the HOF at this point. Maybe both are likely, but I wouldn't just say that flippantly to throw that 7 HOF comment around.

Shrugs, it's whatever. The comment just struck me as odd.

wtf JamStone ? Manu is not a lock for the HOF ?:lmao

[urunobili]

This series has been four years in the making and it would have happened if San Antonio didn't lose a 20-point lead in Game 1 of the 2008 Western Conference Finals.

I would correct your sentence to: "if Manu wouldn't have hurt himself playing PHX"...

[phyzik]

Jason Kidd is 39.

Jason Kidd isnt a scoring point guard like Parker is. Unless Parker evolves into an assist-first PG, his body will not let him last that long in the league.

Having said that, Parker probably has about 4-6 good years in him before Spurs have to start shopping around for a replacement to groom.

[Venti Quattro]

I would correct your sentence to: "if Manu wouldn't have hurt himself playing PHX"...

You don't lose a 20 point lead on the road and get away with the injury card. You just don't.

[Spurtacus]

You have to consider that Tony is 30 years old and has at least 5 years left, maybe 10. He basically has as much ahead of him as behind him, so he could wither away and be forgotten or he could post a few more great years at PG. Right now, if he retired, he would be in the conversation but probably not get it.

Parker's got another good 4-5 years as a starter assuming he avoids any major injury. He could still be a solid backup PG afterwards but I'd rather not see him turn into a tosb like Fisher is. I agree if he retired now he's borderline for the HOF. But another ring and Finals MVP this year will probably cement his place in the HOF.

[rayjayjohnson]

Jason Kidd is 39.

Jason Kidd doesn't contribute

[JamStone]

wtf JamStone ? Manu is not a lock for the HOF ?:lmao

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

[Spurtacus]

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

Kukoc was never an All-Star

Kukoc never made the All-NBA team

Kukoc never won an Olympic medal


I get the comparison but Ginobili's career, both internationally and NBA, is superior.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan has been the best Spurs player in the playoffs, a Finals MVP for Parker isn't a given, if the Spurs win the title..

[JamStone]

Kukoc was never an All-Star

Kukoc never made the All-NBA team

Kukoc never won an Olympic medal


I get the comparison but Ginobili's career, both internationally and NBA, is superior.

The argument that is made for Ginobili and the HOF is that his international career makes him a lock. If you look at only Ginobili's NBA career, you wouldn't put him in the HOF. Disregard the NBA careers of either player. The view is Ginobili gets in because of his international career. Kukoc's international career is as good as Manu's.

That's not to say Manu won't get in. I already said it's likely. But if he's a lock, Toni should already be in.

[Spurtacus]

The argument that is made for Ginobili and the HOF is that his international career makes him a lock. If you look at only Ginobili's NBA career, you wouldn't put him in the HOF. Disregard the NBA careers of either player. The view is Ginobili gets in because of his international career. Kukoc's international career is as good as Manu's.

That's not to say Manu won't get in. I already said it's likely. But if he's a lock, Toni should already be in.

I gotcha and agree his international career only doesn't get him in.

[Solid D]

I gotcha and agree his international career only doesn't get him in.

While Manu only played professionally for 4 years in Europe, he had a big impact. Italian League Championship, Euroleague Final Four Championship, Euroleague Final Four MVP, Twice Italian League MVP. Then you add in the Olympic Gold Medal and Silver Medal in World Championships and 3 NBA championships, what more do want? You can count the number of players in the world who have accomplished all that...on 1 or 2 fingers, much less an entire hand. Body of work stares you down.

[Spurtacus]

While Manu only played professionally for 4 years in Europe, he had a big impact. Italian League Championship, Euroleague Final Four Championship, Euroleague Final Four MVP, Twice Italian League MVP. Then you add in the Olympic Gold Medal and Silver Medal in World Championships and 3 NBA championships, what more do want? You can count the number of players in the world who have accomplished all that...on 1 or 2 fingers, much less an entire hand. Body of work stares you down.

Is there an international player in the HOF we can compare Manu's body of work to? I wasn't discrediting his international accomplishments because they are incredible as you listed. I just have to agree that part of his career doesn't make him a HOFer. I think you may have misunderstood my post since you added the 3 NBA championships bit.

But you throw in his NBA career-3 rings, 2x All-Star, 2x All-NBA third team, Sixth Man-he's certainly HOF bound.

[Solid D]

Yep. I just used your quote to post. I could tell you were a embracing the body of worK notion.

[jestersmash]

We've gone through this plenty of times on these boards. I understand the HOF takes into consideration international play. I think Manu is likely, but I won't say a lock. I've said this before and laid out the facts. If Manu is a lock, Toni Kukoc should already be in the HOF.

What do you mean "already?" 2012 was the first year that Kukoc was eligible for HOF if I recall correctly, and it's pretty obvious that neither he nor Ginobili are 1st ballot HOFers, so it's not surprising at all that Kukoc isn't in the HOF the first year he was eligible.

I expect him to be in the hall sometime in the next 5-10 years. He's one of those rare players (like Ginobili) who's a lock for the hall but not as a 1st ballot HOFer. Differentiating between "1st ballot" and non-1st ballot is essentially an unofficial way to pay some extra homage to extra special candidates (M.J., Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Shaq, etc.).

[JamStone]

You know, that's seriously my bad. I didn't realize Kukoc played in the league as recently as 2006. That makes my argument over the last couple years (I'm pretty sure I had made the argument as far back as a couple years ago based on the belief Kukoc had been eligible for a while) pretty stupid if he hasn't been eligible until recently. Seriously, my bad.

Good correction. Thanks.

[Capt Bringdown]

Doc Rivers is an elite coach?

Pop has bowel movements that are smarter than Doc Rivers.