Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts

[Nbadan]

Several witnesses who reported seeing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and Trayvon punching Zimmerman have changed their story...

Witness 12


During that session, she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.

"I don't know which one. … All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors," she said.

Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top, she told trial prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda during a 21/2-minute recorded session.

"I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes, I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," she said.

witness 6


"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.

He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.

Witness 13


After this neighbor heard gunfire, he went outside and spotted Zimmerman standing there with"blood on the back of his head," he told Sanford police the night of the shooting.

Zimmerman told him that Trayvon "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him," the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.

In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.

Zimmerman's tone, the witness said, was "not like 'I can't believe I just shot someone!' — it was more like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody …,' like it was nothing."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522,0,3635603.story?track=rss

[Yonivore]

Several witnesses who reported seeing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and Trayvon punching Zimmerman have changed their story...
I wouldn't want Spike Lee tweeting my address or the NBPP putting a bounty on my head either.

Considering to what the Zimmerman family has been subjected, it's not too far-fetched to believe witnesses could be similarly harassed and threatened.

Of course, they could just want to be a part of the sensationalized narrative and, had they thought of it before Al Sharpton, would have gotten their stories in line with it sooner.

[clambake]

all we know is that he stalked that kid, had a gun, and killed him.

[Yonivore]

all we know is that he stalked that kid, had a gun, and killed him.
Well, know, that's not all we know.

Nothing Zimmerman did fits the legal definition of "stalking," and, while he was armed and did fatally shoot Martin, you're succinct synopsis leaves a lot out of what is known.

[boutons_deux]

as neighborhood watch captain, he violated the rules which say

don't confront, only call the police

don't be armed.

National neighborhood watch org has disowned what Z did as violating their guidelines.

Driving around following somebody, profiled as his much beloved "young black male with hoodie", fits any common sense definition of stalking.

[Yonivore]

as neighborhood watch captain, he violated the rules which say...
It wasn't a formal "neighborhood watch program."


...don't confront,...
No evidence he did.


... only call the police
There are 911 recordings that evidence he did.


don't be armed.
Not a formal "neighborhood watch program" and Zimmerman was licensed to carry a concealed handgun.


National neighborhood watch org has disowned what Z did as violating their guidelines.
Did the national organization ever say Zimmerman's neighborhood watch program was ever officially affiliated with them?


Driving around following somebody,...
Zimmerman wasn't just driving around, he was going someplace when Martin's behavior caught his attention.


...profiled as his much beloved "young black male with hoodie",...
Martin's physical description was only given in response to the 911 call-taker's questions. Zimmerman's unsolicited observations focused on Martin's behavior.


...fits any common sense definition of stalking.
Uh, no. Not legal nor common sense definitions.

[Thompson]

'Now that this is a national story and everyone hates this guy with a passion, we remember things differently from our original uninfluenced account in a way that reflects badly on him.'

No reasonable doubt there. :rolleyes

[Goran Dragic]

Well, know, that's not all we know.

Nothing Zimmerman did fits the legal definition of "stalking," and, while he was armed and did fatally shoot Martin, you're succinct synopsis leaves a lot out of what is known.
followed Martin, had a gun, killed him

That better?

[George Gervin's Afro]

we're on the verge of a race war caused by the msm

[Yonivore]

'Now that this is a national story and everyone hates this guy with a passion, we remember things differently from our original uninfluenced account in a way that reflects badly on him.'

No reasonable doubt there. :rolleyes
Just because the witnesses change their testimony in ways that appear detrimental to Zimmerman doesn't mean it will be interpreted by a jury that way. If witnesses introduce reasonable doubt -- not matter in what direction -- it's still reasonable doubt.

Take the witness that originally told police he witnessed Martin sitting on top of a Zimmerman wailing away on him MMA-style while Zimmerman screamed for help.

True, he now says Martin may have only been trying to hold Zimmerman down and that he now unsure of who was screaming for help. But, he still maintains it was Martin on top of Zimmerman.

So regardless of his inconsistencies, which only raise reasonable doubt, there is a body of physical and forensic evidence that supports his first statement.

[George Gervin's Afro]

all we know is that he stalked that kid, had a gun, and killed him.

[clambake]

Well, know, that's not all we know.

Nothing Zimmerman did fits the legal definition of "stalking," and, while he was armed and did fatally shoot Martin, you're succinct synopsis leaves a lot out of what is known.

let the anticipation build, yoni.

you're going to be finding out quite a bit about george soon enough.

[elbamba]

Several witnesses who reported seeing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and Trayvon punching Zimmerman have changed their story...

Witness 12



witness 6



Witness 13



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522,0,3635603.story?track=rss

I read this article.

Witness 12 is no longer a credible witness as he/she openly admits that he/she is changing his/her story after watching TV. I doubt the testimony would even be admissible at this point. This is why a judge tells jurors not to read about the case in newspaper or watch it on TV or the internet.

Witness 6--You could not tell that punches were being thrown but you still affirm that Martin was on Zimmerman and at the least, restraining him. Then show pictures of Zimmerman's injuries to the jury. Witness 6 testimony no longer matters because he cannot refute the evidence.

Witness 13--All of his/her testimony, which came one month after the incident, is pure speculation and opinion on Zimmerman's attitude-- as if shooting someone was no big deal--I am sure the judge will let that in.

This is why the media should not get involved and try to prosecute a case prematurely. Any defense attorney worth their salt will probably keep all of these witnesses from testifying. Changing your statement is one thing, changing it one month after the story becomes national news and you lose all credibility.

[clambake]

do you believe george?

[Ignignokt]

do you believe george?

So far because the overall evidence corraborates his account. If that changes then ofcourse i'd have to rethink it.

[clambake]

george didn't stalk this kid by accident.

you'll see.

[clambake]

So far because the overall evidence corraborates his account. If that changes then ofcourse i'd have to rethink it.

it didn't bother you that george already lied to the court?

[Ignignokt]

it didn't bother you that george already lied to the court?

Well, that's news to me. And if so, does it change the facts entirely? Also, being a cynical douchebag does not one up you on the wild cobra's of the world.

You're just cynical who also happens to be a douchebag and an ignoramus.

[clambake]

Well, that's news to me.
u already in the tank for george. not keeping up, are u? how original.
And if so, does it change the facts entirely?
you wouldn't know, remember?

Also, being a cynical douchebag does not one up you on the wild cobra's of the world.
how you view yourself is your business.


You're just cynical who also happens to be a douchebag and an ignoramus.

i think you and george share some of the same character qualities.

[elbamba]

do you believe george?

It doesn't matter if I believe him. The only story that comes out is his. He should prevail. Unless the prosecutor has an eye witness, George is not guilty of commiting a crime in Florida. We can disagree about what he should or should not have done. That is a legitimate debate, but I am sick of the media trying to make a story out of the witnesses. A witness changing their story is not a good thing in the world. Even if it benefits your postition, it smacks of dishonesty and prejudice.

[elbamba]

george didn't stalk this kid by accident.

you'll see.

How can you prove this? The only testimony regarding motive will be Georgies. Has he already confessed to intentionally stalking Martin?

[elbamba]

it didn't bother you that george already lied to the court?

So he perjured himself? Has the prosecutor added an additional charge?

[Ignignokt]

u already in the tank for george. not keeping up, are u? how original.
you wouldn't know, remember?

how you view yourself is your business.



i think you and george share some of the same character qualities.

The prosecution witheld evidence, george zimmerman's account of his estimation of trayvon's age differed from the 911 tapes to when he was in court. But that's just an estimation. george said TM was in late teens, that could mean 19, but george later said he looked a little younger than him, GZ is only 26. That itself doesn't constitute a lie in itself. The latter statement could be vague. "looks" little younger than 26 could be 22.

NM, you're a fucktard.

[clambake]

What did he lie to the court about again?

you don't care, remember?

[clambake]

So he perjured himself? Has the prosecutor added an additional charge?
the judge will rule on it. like i said from the beginning, this is florida and the guys name is zimmerman.

[Ignignokt]

you don't care, remember?

You should drop the ugly habit of putting words in other people's mouth when you're getting your ass handed to you.

It's very uncynical ignorant douchebag of you.

[Ignignokt]

the judge will rule on it. like i said from the beginning, this is florida and the guys name is zimmerman.


looks like you already made up your mind, you think the facts are on your side and you've judged. How are you different than anybody else?

[clambake]

You should drop the ugly habit of putting words in other people's mouth when you're getting your ass handed to you.

It's very uncynical ignorant douchebag of you.

you want me to educate you because some people aren't cut out for research.

way to hand my ass to me.

[clambake]

looks like you already made up your mind, you think the facts are on your side and you've judged. How are you different than anybody else?

i've only made up my mind about his willingness to lie.

because he already lied.

[Ignignokt]

you want me to educate you because some people aren't cut out for research.

way to hand my ass to me.

No way bro, i didn't know george had a jewish name and that his court is in florida. Thanks bro, you saved me from that academic researching apparatus called google.

Stool bory, Cro

[Ignignokt]

i've only made up my mind about his willingness to lie.

because he already lied.


:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

you mean to tell me your were impartial before then?

I mean you pointing out that his last name was Zimmerman (joooooooooooooos!!) and his court was held in florida, did that revelation come after the fact you caught him lying?

[elbamba]

the judge will rule on it. like i said from the beginning, this is florida and the guys name is zimmerman.

The court won't make a ruling unless it is raised by the prosecutor. They only thing I could find online was a bunch of left wing websites that accused him of lying about knowing the age of Martin. Of course, if you read the actual statement made in court and then the statement made to the police, you would realize that when he was getting his ass beaten, he might have actually thought Martin was older than in his late teens. Just sayin, please disperse, there is nothing to see here.

[clambake]

The court won't make a ruling unless it is raised by the prosecutor. They only thing I could find online was a bunch of left wing websites that accused him of lying about knowing the age of Martin. Of course, if you read the actual statement made in court and then the statement made to the police, you would realize that when he was getting his ass beaten, he might have actually thought Martin was older than in his late teens. Just sayin, please disperse, there is nothing to see here.

already raised.

[Ignignokt]

The court won't make a ruling unless it is raised by the prosecutor. They only thing I could find online was a bunch of left wing websites that accused him of lying about knowing the age of Martin. Of course, if you read the actual statement made in court and then the statement made to the police, you would realize that when he was getting his ass beaten, he might have actually thought Martin was older than in his late teens. Just sayin, please disperse, there is nothing to see here.

what about the fact that his last name is zimmerman and the court is in florida??

[clambake]

what about the fact that his last name is zimmerman and the court is in florida??

that really bothers you, doesn't it gtown.

what do you think about his lie to the court? you ever going to answer?

[elbamba]

already raised.

Has it been. I am a little confussed. I have seen websites raise this as an issue. I could find nothing that says the prosecutor has raised this as an issue.

I confess to not being the greatest online researcher. If you have a source that shows the prosecutor has charged Zimmerman with perjury, I would appreciate a look.

[clambake]

Has it been. I am a little confussed. I have seen websites raise this as an issue. I could find nothing that says the prosecutor has raised this as an issue.

I confess to not being the greatest online researcher. If you have a source that shows the prosecutor has charged Zimmerman with perjury, I would appreciate a look.

ok, but now gtowndillweed will know.

follow the money.

[Agloco]

13 witnesses? Yet not a single one came to Z's aid?

smh

[elbamba]

13 witnesses? Yet not a single one came to Z's aid?

smh

Perhaps some were afraid because of the beating that was taking place. Perhaps others thought to help but it was too late by the time they could. It is apparent that some people watched from a distance while others called the police.

People certainly came after the shooting. In fact, the once witness who seemed to think that Zimmerman shot Martin as if shooting someone was no big deal did not seem to fear for his life as Zimmerman requested that the witness call his wife.

Seems strange that one would approach and talk to a crazy pissed off halfwhite/half Peruvian trigger itchy, racial profiling, gun shooting maniac who just callously shot someone. Doesn't it?

Seems to me like I would keep my distance from such a dangerous person.

[clambake]

seems strange that he'd ask a stranger to call his wife.

[johnsmith]

This is such a fucking non story.....or should be anyway.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably support Zimmerman in this case. THE POLICE TOLD HIM NOT TO GO AFTER THE FUCKING KID!!!!!


Then he went after the kid.

Then he got his ass kicked.

Then, much like every giant pussy that carries a gun with him after he got beat up, he shot the kid.

The only part of this that should have been a story was that he wasn't thrown in jail immediately.

NO ONE WOULD HAVE FUCKING DIED IF HE DID WHAT THE COPS TOLD HIM TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you disagree, you're an idiot.

[GSH]

do you believe george?

Do you believe the Associated Press? I just posted another new development. Zimmerman was the last person to stalk someone because he was Black. You really should wait for the facts.


Fucktard.

[ChumpDumper]

This is such a fucking non story.....or should be anyway.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably support Zimmerman in this case. THE POLICE TOLD HIM NOT TO GO AFTER THE FUCKING KID!!!!!


Then he went after the kid.

Then he got his ass kicked.

Then, much like every giant pussy that carries a gun with him after he got beat up, he shot the kid.

The only part of this that should have been a story was that he wasn't thrown in jail immediately.

NO ONE WOULD HAVE FUCKING DIED IF HE DID WHAT THE COPS TOLD HIM TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you disagree, you're an idiot.I may be an idiot regardless, but I agree.

[johnsmith]

Do you believe the Associated Press? I just posted another new development. Zimmerman was the last person to stalk someone because he was Black. You really should wait for the facts.


Fucktard.

Do you believe it's ok to kill someone because they look scary to you?

[elbamba]

Do you believe it's ok to kill someone because they look scary to you?

No. But under Florida law its certainly ok to shoot someone who is beating you.

[clambake]

fucktard.

how original.

[clambake]

No. But under Florida law its certainly ok to shoot someone who is beating you.

martin wasn't standing his ground?

[elbamba]

seems strange that he'd ask a stranger to call his wife.

No stranger that the witness changing his story one month after the event took place. Certainly no stranger than the witness developing an expertise in mental interpretation in one month.

[elbamba]

martin wasn't standing his ground?

If he can testify that he did, he might have a good case.

[elbamba]

martin wasn't standing his ground?

Did Martin assert the affirmative defense of standing his ground before attacking Zimmerman?

[clambake]

Did Martin assert the affirmative defense of standing his ground before attacking Zimmerman?

george invaded his ground. stalked him to it.

[clambake]

you haven't responded about george's willingness to lie?

[ChumpDumper]

Did Martin assert the affirmative defense of standing his ground before attacking Zimmerman?Does one have to file a motion or something on the street?

[clambake]

Does one have to file a motion or something on the street?

in florida you gotta call "dibs"

[johnsmith]

No. But under Florida law its certainly ok to shoot someone who is beating you.

What if you start the fight and the other person is unarmed.....well, other than skittles.


I also find it funny that Martin may have been high as well.....Zimmerman got beat up by a stoned 17 year old that just wanted to eat candy.

[elbamba]

george invaded his ground. stalked him to it.

Has he been charged with stalking? Don't think the elements are met, but I could be wrong. Perhaps aggravated stalking, if Flordia has such a charge. I don't think he has been charged with stalking. However, stand you ground does not apply to stalking. It only applies if you are in fear for your life or severe bodily harm.

[elbamba]

you haven't responded about george's willingness to lie?

Which lie? I was waiting for a link. If you could be more specific, I will be happy to respond.

[clambake]

Has he been charged with stalking? Don't think the elements are met, but I could be wrong. Perhaps aggravated stalking, if Flordia has such a charge. I don't think he has been charged with stalking. However, stand you ground does not apply to stalking. It only applies if you are in fear for your life or severe bodily harm.

now you know how martin felt.

[clambake]

you haven't responded about george's willingness to lie?

anytime you're ready.

[elbamba]

Does one have to file a motion or something on the street?

No, but you have to assert stand your ground if you want to use is as an affirmative defense. I doubt Martin will be asserting that or anything else any time soon. Therefore, the argument is nonsensical.

[elbamba]

What if you start the fight and the other person is unarmed.....well, other than skittles.


I also find it funny that Martin may have been high as well.....Zimmerman got beat up by a stoned 17 year old that just wanted to eat candy.

You have proof that Zimmerman started the fight? Sorry but getting out of your car proves nothing. These witnesses certainly didn't give any new insight into who started the fight.

[ChumpDumper]

No, but you have to assert stand your ground if you want to use is as an affirmative defense. I doubt Martin will be asserting that or anything else any time soon. Therefore, the argument is nonsensical.As far as I know, he was never charged with anything ever.

Can't say the same for Zimmerman.

[elbamba]

now you know how martin felt.

Did he give a statement before he died? How do you know how he felt. Maybe he was mad and pissed off and decided to confront Zimmerman. Certainly would not be the first time a teenager lost his cool and did somthing stupid.

[johnsmith]

You have proof that Zimmerman started the fight? Sorry but getting out of your car proves nothing. These witnesses certainly didn't give any new insight into who started the fight.

So do you think that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and listened to what the 911 dispatcher had said, Martin would still have been killed that night?

[clambake]

You have proof that Zimmerman started the fight? Sorry but getting out of your car proves nothing. These witnesses certainly didn't give any new insight into who started the fight.

yep, only 2 people know and one of them is dead.

now we're left with one side of the story. that story is coming from a guy that already lied in court.

anytime you're ready.

[johnsmith]

Did he give a statement before he died? How do you know how he felt. Maybe he was mad and pissed off and decided to confront Zimmerman. Certainly would not be the first time a teenager lost his cool and did somthing stupid.

Again, do you think if Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car that Martin would still be dead?

[ChumpDumper]

So do you think that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and listened to what the 911 dispatcher had said, Martin would still have been killed that night?Martin was asking for it.

Look at the way he was dressed!

[elbamba]

As far as I know, he was never charged with anything ever.

Can't say the same for Zimmerman.

But that was not the discussion. Clambake claims that Martin was justified under stand your ground. I am just asking that he back it up.

Zimmerman certainly has a case under stand your ground. I am glad we agree.

[BradLohaus]

I don't think Zimmerman's statements to police are public yet, or if they are I haven't seen them. But his lawyer did question that investigator about them at the bond hearing. Seems like he claimed that after the dispatcher told him not to follow that he started walking back towards his car. I think the investigator said that he did claim that to the police, but that they disputed whether or not that was true.

This is going to come down to a timeline on how they came face to face. The defense is going to claim that Martin doubled back after running and confronted Zimmerman on his way back to his car, which very well could be exactly what happened, but there doesn't seem to be any witnesses to this, at least not one who saw it clearly. So they're going to have to use the two calls (Zimmerman's to police and Martin's to his GF/friend) and any other way to get the timing.

[ChumpDumper]

But that was not the discussion. Clambake claims that Martin was justified under stand your ground. I am just asking that he back it up.

Zimmerman certainly has a case under stand your ground. I am glad we agree.After stalking Martin with a gun, I can't really agree.

Martin could have a claim, but he's conveniently dead.

If only Martin had a gun that night too....

[johnsmith]

I don't think Zimmerman's statements to police are public yet, or if they are I haven't seen them. But his lawyer did question that investigator about them at the bond hearing. Seems like he claimed that after the dispatcher told him not to follow that he started walking back towards his car. I think the investigator said that he did claim that to the police, but that they disputed whether or not that was true.

This is going to come down to a timeline on how they came face to face. The defense is going to claim that Martin doubled back after running and confronted Zimmerman on his way back to his car, which very well could be exactly what happened, but there doesn't seem to be any witnesses to this, at least not one who saw it clearly. So they're going to have to use the two calls (Zimmerman's to police and Martin's to his GF/friend) and any other way to get the timing.

Have they decided if Zimmerman was in or out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow?

[johnsmith]

If only Martin had a gun that night too....


I'm surprised he didn't......what with the hoodie and all.

[clambake]

Have they decided if Zimmerman was in or out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow?

does it matter? george was going to do what george wanted to do.

[elbamba]

So do you think that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and listened to what the 911 dispatcher had said, Martin would still have been killed that night?

Doesn't matter what I think might have happened. If Martin had never been born that he would never have been shot that night. Correct?

Your recital of the facts are so off it does not surprise me that you have the opinion that you do.

The dispatcher, after Zimmerman left his car, told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin, who was the suspect at the time. Zimmerman than said ok. We have no evidence at this point that suggests who started the fight at this point.

If I tell someone I am going to kill them, and then do nothing about it and then they come and attack me, they will be guilty, there will be no stand your ground law admissible here.

The problem with the case you want to argue is that you believe that Zimmerman was the agressor and if he was, we will never know for sure because the only testimony that comes out is Zimmerman's. Unless there is a smoking gun. However, witnesses that change their stories becuase of wathcing tv are not credible witnesses. No lawyer will rely on that.

[clambake]

we're left with the story from the guy that already lied in court.

[elbamba]

After stalking Martin with a gun, I can't really agree.

Martin could have a claim, but he's conveniently dead.

If only Martin had a gun that night too....

Don't bring skittles to a gun fight.

[clambake]

anytime you're ready.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't bring skittles to a gun fight.Oh, a joke.

How about don't stalk kids who only have skittles.

[elbamba]

Have they decided if Zimmerman was in or out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow?

Listen to the audio, it is pretty clear that you hear the door open, you hear him out of breath and that is when the dispatcher tells Zimmerman that the dispatcher does not need Zimmerman to follow Martin.

[elbamba]

we're left with the story from the guy that already lied in court.

And that will be the only story that matters under the law.

[DisAsTerBot]

The problem with the case you want to argue is that you believe that Zimmerman was the agressor and if he was, we will never know for sure because the only testimony that comes out is Zimmerman's. Unless there is a smoking gun.

/end all threads related to this topic

[clambake]

elbamba completely dodging george's credibility.

[elbamba]

anytime you're ready.

Are you going to give me the link. I have asked three times. I don't even need the link. Just give me the specific lie you are referring to and I would be happy to discuss.

[johnsmith]

Doesn't matter what I think might have happened. If Martin had never been born that he would never have been shot that night. Correct?

Your recital of the facts are so off it does not surprise me that you have the opinion that you do.

The dispatcher, after Zimmerman left his car, told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin, who was the suspect at the time. Zimmerman than said ok. We have no evidence at this point that suggests who started the fight at this point.

If I tell someone I am going to kill them, and then do nothing about it and then they come and attack me, they will be guilty, there will be no stand your ground law admissible here.

The problem with the case you want to argue is that you believe that Zimmerman was the agressor and if he was, we will never know for sure because the only testimony that comes out is Zimmerman's. Unless there is a smoking gun. However, witnesses that change their stories becuase of wathcing tv are not credible witnesses. No lawyer will rely on that.

I don't disagree with this actually. I thought that Zimmerman was in his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow, which would obviously change the dynamics of this whole story.

However, I still believe this to be a non story in which Zimmerman put himself in the position that he felt "forced" to kill a kid that was doing nothing wrong.

[clambake]

Are you going to give me the link. I have asked three times. I don't even need the link. Just give me the specific lie you are referring to and I would be happy to discuss.

i already told you to follow the money. but you knew that.


go ahead. you can tell us. we know.

[BradLohaus]

Have they decided if Zimmerman was in or out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow?

I don't know. All I know is that when the dispatcher asked if he was following he said yes. But I don't know if he meant in his car or that he was out and on foot.

Maybe someone more familiar with the call can say if and when there was an audible car door opening. Although I seem to remember that there was clearly wind blowing at that point, so I guess I'd have to say that he was most likely outside the car at that point and following on foot after Martin started running.

Again, the double back point is crucial; literally the entire case may hinge on that.

[clambake]

does anyone think george's credibility will have anything to do with this case?

[elbamba]

Oh, a joke.

How about don't stalk kids who only have skittles.

I don't see how staking is much of a joke. However, Zimmerman's actions do not rise to stalking under Florida law so I guess that discussion is irrelevant.

[Heath Ledger]

The conflicting and changed accounts of the witnesses will only ensure that Zimmerman is acquitted. Let the riots begin. Pass the popcorn please...

I live in Florida and have my CCW and Im prepared for the fallout.

[johnsmith]

I don't know. All I know is that when the dispatcher asked if he was following he said yes. But I don't know if he meant in his car or that he was out and on foot.

Maybe someone more familiar with the call can say if and when there was an audible car door opening. Although I seem to remember that there was clearly wind blowing at that point, so I guess I'd have to say that he was most likely outside the car at that point and following on foot after Martin started running.

Again, the double back point is crucial; literally the entire case may hinge on that.

Agreed. Interesting too that the whole thing will boil down to the timing of two phone calls.


Still though, you have to wonder, if Zimmerman had not been armed and following him that night, would Martin have been killed? I just don't know.

[elbamba]

elbamba completely dodging george's credibility.

I am not even sure what you are talking about. If you could tell me which statement made in court by Zimmerman was a lie, I would be happy to address the issue of credibility. Until you tell me what you are referring to I will not be able to give you a response outside of this one, which I have now given about 4 times.

[clambake]

The conflicting and changed accounts of the witnesses will only ensure that Zimmerman is acquitted. Let the riots begin. Pass the popcorn please...

I live in Florida and have my CCW and Im prepared for the fallout.

are you gonna be like george, get your gun, run outta your daddy's house, hop into your daddy's vehicle and go look for trouble?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't see how staking is much of a joke. However, Zimmerman's actions do not rise to stalking under Florida law so I guess that discussion is irrelevant.Lions don't stalk zebras under legal definitions either, but they sure as hell stalk them.

[clambake]

dodging or not trying.

or trolling.

[elbamba]

However, I still believe this to be a non story in which Zimmerman put himself in the position that he felt "forced" to kill a kid that was doing nothing wrong.

This is a fine opinion. I too agree with you. I would probably not have gotten out of my car unless someone was hurting a family member or breaking into my house.

However, from a legal standpoint, ZImmerman did nothing wrong. That is my simple point. People got worked up over this case because the media wanted to make this a white vs. black issue. About the only thing more exciting is a sexy young mother who kills her daughter. But that story already ran its course.

[elbamba]

i already told you to follow the money. but you knew that.


go ahead. you can tell us. we know.

If anyone knows what Clambake is talking about, please be so kind as to inform me.

[Heath Ledger]

LOL at the media still using Zimmermans 2005 mugshot instead of his recent one. They have tried to hang this guy from day one. He will walk. Book it.

[Trill Clinton]

people got worked up because he wasn't arrested after killing an unarmed child. when children are brutally murdered or kidnapped the public wants justice. media didn't make this a white vs black issue, zimmerman did when he profiled trayvon.

[Heath Ledger]

Black Panthers want a race war apparently. Bring it, just remember holding your gun sideways only works in the movies.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/556839_297728936984812_100002431250816_614335_1693 571341_n.jpg

[elbamba]

Lions don't stalk zebras under legal definitions either, but they sure as hell stalk them.

We live in a society with laws. This is what seperates us from the wild.

[elbamba]

people got worked up because he wasn't arrested after killing an unarmed child. when children are brutally murdered or kidnapped the public wants justice. media didn't make this a white vs black issue, zimmerman did when he profiled trayvon.

You keep telling yourself that.

[Heath Ledger]

people got worked up because he wasn't arrested after killing an unarmed child. when children are brutally murdered or kidnapped the public wants justice. media didn't make this a white vs black issue, zimmerman did when he profiled trayvon.

Brutally murdered I think not. He was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and the evidence supports this. Do I think Treyvon should be dead absolutely not. I wish it was just a case of some overzealous dude getting his ass handed to him by a youngster.

[Trill Clinton]

You keep telling yourself that.

ok. of course you wouldn't understand our pain because you're not a black.

[Trill Clinton]

Brutally murdered I think not. He was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and the evidence supports this. Do I think Treyvon should be dead absolutely not. I wish it was just a case of some overzealous dude getting his ass handed to him by a youngster.

he looked just fine to me at the police station. looked like a scuffle, not getting beat to near death. but again, you're not black you I don't expect you to understand our plight.

[ChumpDumper]

We live in a society with laws. This is what seperates us from the wild.You can't use laws to say Zimmerman didn't stalk Martin. That's hiding behind laws.

You can try to hide behind technicalities and split hairs all you want, it won't change the fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin while carrying a loaded gun.

I'm not talking in a legal sense. He wouldn't be convicted of stalking using the legal definition. But he definitely stalked Martin and there's no way to dodge it.

[elbamba]

ok. of course you wouldn't understand our pain because you're not a black.

Its all about race. Its okay to be upset, I am too. but I can't deny that the law is on Zimmerman's side.

[Heath Ledger]

I guess you havent seen the up close and clear photos of the wounds on Zimmerman or the doctor who will be testifying on his behalf who treated him within a few hours of the event. I don't give a fuck about your plight.

[elbamba]

You can't use laws to say Zimmerman didn't stalk Martin. That's hiding behind laws.

You can try to hide behind technicalities and split hairs all you want, it won't change the fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin while carrying a loaded gun.

I'm not talking in a legal sense. He wouldn't be convicted of stalking using the legal definition. But he definitely stalked Martin and there's no way to dodge it.

Lucky for Zimmerman, the legal definition is what counts.

[ChumpDumper]

Lucky for Zimmerman, the legal definition is what counts.He's not accused of breaking a stalking law.

[Trill Clinton]

Its all about race. Its okay to be upset, I am too. but I can't deny that the law is on Zimmerman's side.

i don't think so, but its up to the justice system to make the right decision. if he gets off with no jail time then i take it as a slap in the face to the african american community.

[elbamba]

he looked just fine to me at the police station. looked like a scuffle, not getting beat to near death. but again, you're not black you I don't expect you to understand our plight.

Do all black people only believe what they see in one clip? Can black people see the photos that were released at the scene of the incidnet?

[Trill Clinton]

I guess you havent seen the up close and clear photos of the wounds on Zimmerman or the doctor who will be testifying on his behalf who treated him within a few hours of the event. I don't give a fuck about your plight.

I guess I haven't. go find them and show me. only thing I saw was a couple scratches on the back of his head.

[elbamba]

He's not accused of breaking a stalking law.

I thought Clambake said that he was.

Well good. Then there isn't much point in debating whether or not he stalked Martin that night.

[ChumpDumper]

I thought Clambake said that he was.

Well good. Then there isn't much point in debating whether or not he stalked Martin that night.Since it's obvious he did, I agree.

[Trill Clinton]

Do all black people only believe what they see in one clip?
yup

Can black people see the photos that were released at the scene of the incidnet?

nope

we don't trust the police, you ever heard of NWA or Public enemy? We have a history of being unfairly targeted, murdered, set up, letting white folk off with killing blacks, etc. none of that police/zimmerman evidence mean shit to us.

his character and actions that night tell me he should be locked up.

[elbamba]

I guess I haven't. go find them and show me. only thing I saw was a couple scratches on the back of his head.

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic-photo-possible-evidence-shows-george-zimmermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

[elbamba]

we don't trust the police, you ever heard of NWA or Public enemy? We have a history of being unfairly targeted, murdered, set up, letting white folk off with killing blacks, etc. none of that police/zimmerman evidence mean shit to us.

his character and actions that night tell me he should be locked up.

Lucky for him a judge and jury will decide his fate. Here's hoping the jury is a bit more open-minded to the facts.

[Trill Clinton]

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic-photo-possible-evidence-shows-george-zimmermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

oh those?:lol those are the scratches I was talking about. EMS put some peroxide on that and told him to go home. foh.

[Trill Clinton]

Lucky for him a judge and jury will decide his fate. Here's hoping the jury is a bit more open-minded to the facts.

we'll see.

[DisAsTerBot]

we don't trust the police, you ever heard of NWA or Public enemy? We have a history of being unfairly targeted, murdered, set up, letting white folk off with killing blacks, etc. none of that police/zimmerman evidence mean shit to us.

his character and actions that night tell me he should be locked up.

lol our plight is clearly documented on numerous hiphop albums

[clambake]

I thought Clambake said that he was.

Well good. Then there isn't much point in debating whether or not he stalked Martin that night.

i didn't say he was accused of stalking.

you're still dodging zimmermans lie to the court.

[clambake]

Lucky for him a judge and jury will decide his fate. Here's hoping the jury is a bit more open-minded to the facts.

like the facts you are completely dodging?

[Trill Clinton]

lol our plight is clearly documented on numerous hiphop albums
yes it is. everyone's message is different.

when i referenced NWA and PE i was talking about their songs about us not trusting the police.

[Creepn]

This case is going to be in US history academic books where it will be discussed in classrooms and students will have to write an essay about who they think is guilty.

[elbamba]

like the facts you are completely dodging?

You mean that facts that you still refuse to supply even though I have requested them about five times. lol at dodging a figment of your imagination.

[Wild Cobra]

all we know is that he stalked that kid, had a gun, and killed him.
What's this "we" shit?

You have a mouse in your pocket?

[elbamba]

This case is going to be in US history academic books where it will be discussed in classrooms and students will have to write an essay about who they think is guilty.

Not likely. Maybe for the next two years.

[Wild Cobra]

followed Martin, had a gun, killed him

That better?

At least your wording is accurate. Leaves out a few things, but Clambakes version is a lie.

[clambake]

What's this "we" shit?

You have a mouse in hour pocket?

whats an hour pocket?

[clambake]

At least your wording is accurate. Leaves out a few things, but Clambakes version is a lie.

help elbamba out and tell him the lie george told the court.

[Trill Clinton]

only thing that surprises me in this case is the amount of people who sent this child killer money for his defense fund. its a sick world we live in when pedophiles, which in my opinion is the lowest of the low when it comes to crimes, get bullshit sentences and child killers are being defended and supported by complete strangers. makes me think amerikkka doesn't care about kids.

[clambake]

only thing that surprises me in this case is the amount of people who sent this child killer money for his defense fund. its a sick world we live in when pedophiles, which in my opinion is the lowest of the low when it comes to crimes, get bullshit sentences and child killers are being defended and supported by complete strangers. makes me think amerikkka doesn't care about kids.

shhhhhhh, make elbamba do his homework.

[Wild Cobra]

does anyone think george's credibility will have anything to do with this case?
No.

Why's is he suppose to lack credibility again?

More made up stuff?

[clambake]

No.

Why's is he suppose to lack credibility again?

More made up stuff?

so, you support his lying to the court. there's a fucking surprise.

[Wild Cobra]

ok. of course you wouldn't understand our pain because you're not a black.

Yes we know. Black leaders tell you when to feel pain. Sorry, but nobody tells me when to feel pain.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes we know. Black leaders tell you when to feel pain. Sorry, but nobody tells me when to feel pain.Your butt hurts constantly.

[Wild Cobra]

He's not accused of breaking a stalking law.

That's right, so don't call it stalking.

[Trill Clinton]

Yes we know. Black leaders tell you when to feel pain. Sorry, but nobody tells me when to feel pain.

black leaders tell me when?

umm I was one of the first people to sign the petition demanding justice for trayvon. this was before the 'black leaders' you're referring to even got involved.

[ChumpDumper]

That's right, so don't call it stalking.stalk

verb
intransitive verb

1: to pursue quarry or prey stealthily

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stalk?show=1&t=1337892142

It's stalking.

[Trill Clinton]

aye, Creepn...check this article out.

A tale of two hoodies: Mark Zuckerberg vs. Trayvon Martin


http://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/zuckerberg-hoodie-16x9.jpg?w=650


Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg speaks to reporters at Harvard University November 7, 2011 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. (Photo by Darren McCollester/Getty Images)
Why not invoke Charles Dickens (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/29595.html) given the dramatic times in which we are living? Two young men — one still a minor. Two hoodies. One dies in his hoodie and the other becomes an overnight billionaire.
Trayvon Martin and Mark Zuckerberg both sported the hooded sweatshirts, known as hoodies, that are near-universal gear for those under 30, and beyond. Hey, even I’ve got a couple and maybe you do, too. People who support George Zimmerman claim that leftists want to make Trayvon Martin’s death into a race issue when it is not — even to the degree of blaming the victim for being killed by Zimmerman because he was wearing an ubiquitous hoodie, as did Geraldo Rivera.
Geraldo Rivera’s own son said that he was ashamed (http://globalgrind.com/news/gerldo-rivera-son-ashamed-commentary-trayvon-martin-hoodie-details) of his father’s position after Geraldo stated that Trayvon had somehow been to blame for his own murder because Martin chose clothing that made him look suspicious. Despite the public outcry and personal confrontations, Geraldo recently doubled-down (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/geraldo-rivera-trayvon-martin-was-dressed-in-thug-wear.php) on his position on Bill O’Reilly’s Fox News show saying:

I think what’s far more significant is what Trayvon Martin looked like on that night, Bill. Aside from the fact that he’s dressed in that thug wear — look at the size of him, he’s not a little kid.
Never mind that George Zimmerman outweighed his teenage victim Trayvon by about 100 lbs, reportedly. The hoodie made Trayvon look like a hood justifying an attack by a neighborhood vigilante. Yet when Mark Zuckerberg appeared on Wall Street during the roadshow run-up to Facebook’s IPO, his choice of a hoodie instead of a stiff suit was lauded as culturally cool. (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/hautehouse_row/151879505.html)
Sure, Zuck caught some static (http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml) from Wall Street haters who wear ties, but most saw his casual attire represented via hoodie as a nod to Silicon Valley style where what’s in your brain is more important than what you’re wearing. Indeed, Zuckerberg’s hoodie is standard issue at Facebook’s Palo Alto headquarters and bears a special mandala design (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2012/05/why-mark-zuckerberg-needs-his-hoodie/52106/) inside that expresses FB’s design construct and flow.
Star Jones recently pointed out the double standard inherent in how two young men wearing hoodies were treated in the public eye by the media. She was dismissed as just another angry black woman by others on the show, and right-leaning bloggers (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2012/05/17/nbcs-star-jones-rants-okay-rich-white-guy-zuckerberg-wears-hoodie-ghet) on the ‘net.
But does Star have a point? Trayvon committed no crime — he was merely walking home one fateful night after a trip to 7-11 for Skittles — yet was accosted by a stranger as suspicious in part, it’s claimed, because of his hoodie. When Mark Zukerberg wore a hoodie to launch Facebook’s public stock offering, he was praised as an icon of a new generation representing the best of American values.
We can see this mirror in law enforcement practices. Study after study shows that young whites are more likely to use marijuana (http://www.salon.com/2011/04/20/racially_biased_marijuana_policing/) than blacks or Latinos, yet blacks are at least seven times more likely to get arrested for the same offense. Mark Zuckerberg was probably not a victim of New York City’s terrible “Stop and Frisk” policy during his recent trip to Wall Street’s halls of power. But who’s the real gangsta here?
Some Wall Street analysts are questioning possible unethical behavior by Facebook’s executives and its partner Morgan Stanley in “selective dissemination of information (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/facebook-bankers-secretly-cut-facebook-revenue-estimates-middle-133648905.html)” that gave insider knowledge to some large investors but not others. FB’s stock is being called “muppet bait for the masses (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/facebook-bankers-secretly-cut-facebook-revenue-estimates-middle-133648905.html)” who didn’t know that Facebook’s quarter one earnings estimates had been cut mid-launch. The stock is now sinking like a stone in the NASDAQ stock echange. It’s not clear how much Zuckerberg himself knew about the alleged financial shenaBrothans and shakedowns. But we all must be left wondering — who would Geraldo name as the hood wearing “thug wear” now?
It’s a tale of two hoodies where guilt and innocence are turned upside down, where one young man ends up rich and another ends up dead — depending on whether you’re white or you’re black.
Cheryl Contee writes as Jill Tubman for the award-winning & top-ranked black political blog JackAndJillPolitics.com (http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/), which she co-founded in 2006. She is also the co-founder of Fission Strategy, which provides innovative social media & mobile services to nonprofits and foundations. Cheryl specializes in online advocacy, engagement, and communications. Follow Cheryl Contee on Twitter at @ch3ryl.

[Wild Cobra]

help elbamba out and tell him the lie george told the court.


so, you support his lying to the court. there's a fucking surprise.
You mean about not having bail money? Can you show he knew he had that much available?

[elbamba]

shhhhhhh, make elbamba do his homework.

Lol at you having no facts and nothing to support your conclusions.
Lol at you acting like you have a point.

[Wild Cobra]

black leaders tell me when?

umm I was one of the first people to sign the petition demanding justice for trayvon. this was before the 'black leaders' you're referring to even got involved.
For some reason I believe it. The media says jump, so you not only ask "how high" but take the initiative to make it against white people.

[elbamba]

stalk

verb
intransitive verb

1: to pursue quarry or prey stealthily

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stalk?show=1&t=1337892142

It's stalking.

Didn't Martin see him following him, or so his girlfriend said so. Looks like he wasn't very stealthy, therefore your assertion that he stalked is wrong.

[clambake]

You mean about not having bail money? Can you show he knew he had that much available?

finally! how much?

pay attention el.

[clambake]

come on, wc. time to school you and el.

[cantthinkofanything]

aye, Creepn...check this article out.
A tale of two hoodies: Mark Zuckerberg vs. Trayvon Martin


Zuckerberg wasn't suspiciously and threateningly casing a neighborhood under the cover of dusk like Travon.

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't Martin see him following him, or so his girlfriend said so. Looks like he wasn't very stealthy, therefore your assertion that he stalked is wrong.I didn't say he did it well.

[Trill Clinton]

For some reason I believe it. The media says jump, so you not only ask "how high" but take the initiative to make it against white people.

its so funny that noooooow people want to claim the media is trying to start a race war and pit blacks against whites when blacks have been calling out the media for decades now.

fuck the media and fuck zimmerman.

the truth is a child was murdered and I just want justice. miss me with that media nonsense.

[ChumpDumper]

Zuckerberg wasn't suspiciously and threateningly casing a neighborhood under the cover of dusk like Travon.Martin was doing nothing of the sort.

[cantthinkofanything]

Martin was doing nothing of the sort.

Then why did he attack Zimmerman and get shot?

[Trill Clinton]

Zuckerberg wasn't suspiciously and threateningly casing a neighborhood under the cover of dusk like Travon.

:lol fuck outta here.

[elbamba]

I didn't say he did it well.

No, but the definition that you provided requires one to move stealthily. He did not move stealthily, as supported by the fact that Martin's girlfriend is on the record saying that Marin saw someone (Zimmerman) following him. Hence, he failed to stalk under your definition. Followed yes, but stalk no.

[ChumpDumper]

Then why did he attack Zimmerman and get shot?He was wrongly profiled and stalked by a person with a record of violence.

[Trill Clinton]

Zuckerberg wasn't suspiciously and threateningly casing a neighborhood under the cover of dusk like Travon.

and the article brings up a excellent point. white people get the benefit of the doubt in society. it is what it is. white kid in hoodie= non violent, skater/emo kid or kid trying to stay warm. black kid in hoodie= casing homes, looks suspicious, killer, crackhead, etc.

zimmerman's inner racist trigger went into overdrive when he say trayvon with a fist full of skittles and tea. because all criminals need candy and tea to committ crimes

[clambake]

hey el, what happened to wc?

[ChumpDumper]

No, but the definition that you provided requires one to move stealthily. He did not move stealthily, as supported by the fact that Martin's girlfriend is on the record saying that Marin saw someone (Zimmerman) following him. Hence, he failed to stalk under your definition. Followed yes, but stalk no.As I said, he sucked at stalking. That doesn't mean he didn't stalk him.

I'm sure I can find another definition without the word stealthy in it. Would that change everything for you?

[clambake]

stealthy lol

[DisAsTerBot]

and the article brings up a excellent point. white people get the benefit of the doubt in society. it is what it is. white kid in hoodie= non violent, skater/emo kid or kid trying to stay warm. black kid in hoodie= casing homes, looks suspicious, killer, crackhead, etc.

zimmerman's inner racist trigger went into overdrive when he say trayvon with a fist full of skittles and tea. because all criminals need candy and tea to committ crimes

the word you're looking for here is prejudice

[ChumpDumper]

He followed an innocent kid he had wrongly profiled around a neighborhood while carrying a gun.

Yeah, that makes it sound so much better. Score one for team Zimmerman.

[Trill Clinton]

the word you're looking for here is prejudice

oh thanks, he's prejudice and racist.

[cantthinkofanything]

and the article brings up a excellent point. white people get the benefit of the doubt in society. it is what it is. white kid in hoodie= non violent, skater/emo kid or kid trying to stay warm. black kid in hoodie= casing homes, looks suspicious, killer, crackhead, etc.

zimmerman's inner racist trigger went into overdrive when he say trayvon with a fist full of skittles and tea. because all criminals need candy and tea to committ crimes

I didn't read the tardicle. But I suspect that the % of black people wearing hoodies that commit crimes is higher than the % of white people wearing hoodies that commit violent crimes.

[elbamba]

come on, wc. time to school you and el.

Is this really the best you can do with an argument about his credibility.

http://newsone.com/2004745/zimmerman-bail-money/

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/judge-zimmerman-to-remain-free-on-bail-2330234.html?printArticle=y

The Prosecutor is so sure that she can bring a charge of perjury that she did not even bother to ask bail to be revoked but rather, just asked that it be increased.

Lol at Clambake

[Trill Clinton]

I didn't read the tardicle. But I suspect that the % of black people wearing hoodies that commit crimes is higher than the % of white people wearing hoodies that commit violent crimes.

why would you think that?

[elbamba]

As I said, he sucked at stalking. That doesn't mean he didn't stalk him.

I'm sure I can find another definition without the word stealthy in it. Would that change everything for you?

Not really, because he did not stalk him. Truth be told, I only care about the legal definition of stalking. That is what would matter in this case.

[clambake]

I didn't read the tardicle. But I suspect that the % of black people wearing hoodies that commit crimes is higher than the % of white people wearing hoodies that commit violent crimes.

oh, well, then it's ok, i guess.

sorry mrs. martin. you lost by %.

[clambake]

Is this really the best you can do with an argument about his credibility.

http://newsone.com/2004745/zimmerman-bail-money/

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/judge-zimmerman-to-remain-free-on-bail-2330234.html?printArticle=y

The Prosecutor is so sure that she can bring a charge of perjury that she did not even bother to ask bail to be revoked but rather, just asked that it be increased.

Lol at Clambake

still dodging that he lied from zimmermans tank. lol

[clambake]

tell us el. what did he lie about?

[elbamba]

He followed an innocent kid he had wrongly profiled around a neighborhood while carrying a gun.

Yeah, that makes it sound so much better. Score one for team Zimmerman.

And now you have proof of his profiling. Man you just keep scoring points. Even the damn detective that supported the 2nd degree murder with his affidavit acknowledged that there was no direct evidence of profiling.

[clambake]

tell us el. what did he lie about?

[ChumpDumper]

And now you have proof of his profiling. Man you just keep scoring points. Even the damn detective that supported the 2nd degree murder with his affidavit acknowledged that there was no direct evidence of profiling.Then how did he decide to follow him?

[Wild Cobra]

come on, wc. time to school you and el.
Can you show he knew he had that much available?

[elbamba]

tell us el. what did he lie about?

I'm not sure that he lied about anything. Did the prosecutor ask him about the $150,000? Did he deny having it?

Zimmerman claiming to be broke and he and his wife claiming to be unemployed could very well be accurate.

The legal expenses in this case will probably run around $500,000.

Tell me Bake, Why is the prosecutor not bringing a perjury charge against Zimmerman? She can you know. But all she wants to do is increase bail. Why do you think that is?

[clambake]

Can you show he knew he had that much available?

i can show he lied about having it, period.

he said he didn't know he could use it, right?

[cantthinkofanything]

why would you think that?

IDK.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Las%20Vegas%20home%20invader%20killer.png

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2010/09/4-month-old-baby-in-hoodie.jpg

[elbamba]

Then how did he decide to follow him?

That will be for Zimmerman to tell, if he decides to take the stand. On what evidence do you base your claim of profiling?

[Trill Clinton]

IDK.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Las%20Vegas%20home%20invader%20killer.png

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2010/09/4-month-old-baby-in-hoodie.jpg
:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

That will be for Zimmerman to tell, if he decides to take the stand. On what evidence do you base your claim of profiling?The fact that he followed Martin in the first place.

Why else would he follow him?

[clambake]

I'm not sure that he lied about anything. Did the prosecutor ask him about the $150,000? Did he deny having it?
yes, he told the court he had no money.


Zimmerman claiming to be broke and he and his wife claiming to be unemployed could very well be accurate.
duh. he finally got a taste of money.


The legal expenses in this case will probably run around $500,000.
so what?


Tell me Bake, Why is the prosecutor not bringing a perjury charge against Zimmerman? She can you know. But all she wants to do is increase bail. Why do you think that is?
i haven't once mentioned the prosecution. i'm trying to discuss george's credibility. that thing you ignore.

[Wild Cobra]

i can show he lied about having it, period.

But can you show that he knew he had it. He might not of known the fund status. In fact, this is where someone might intentionally not want to know, or where someone else might intentionally keep them in the dark. Plausible deniability is a good legal strategy.

Two very different things. If you want to call it perjury, I want to see your evidence he factually knew the numbers.

[clambake]

But can you show that he knew he had it. He might not of known the fund status. In fact, this is where someone might intentionally not want to know, or where someone else might intentionally keep them in the dark. Plausible deniability is a good legal strategy.

Two very different things. If you want to call it perjury, I want to see your evidence he factually knew the numbers.

you are so fucking stupid.

he finally told his own lawyer that he had it........and that he'd already spent 54K........in 2 months. :lol

[elbamba]

The fact that he followed Martin in the first place.

Why else would he follow him?

I could take 1,000 guesses and they would only be guesses.

[clambake]

1000 guesses huh?

#492: he thought martin was a space invader?

[ChumpDumper]

I could take 1,000 guesses and they would only be guesses.Why guess? He called the police.

[ChumpDumper]

1000 guesses huh?

#492: he thought martin was a space invader?He wanted a Skittle.

[elbamba]

yes, he told the court he had no money.


duh. he finally got a taste of money.


so what?


i haven't once mentioned the prosecution. i'm trying to discuss george's credibility. that thing you ignore.

If I were Zimmerman's defense attorny. I would hope and pray that their case against my client's credibility is based on whether or not he lied about the $150,000.00.

You see, usually past instances of misbahavior are not admissible, except when it comes to crimes that question a person's integrety (i.e. fraud,). So it would be in the prosecutions best interest to bring a charge of perjury against Zimmerman as it would directly attack his credibility. The prosecutor seems to be intentionally not bringing this charge because there is nothing to it and she knows it.

Lets jump back and consider your allegation of lying compared to the witnesses, which started this thread. In Zimmerman's case, he disclosed the money within 24 hours of the hearing right? Well before he used $5,000 of the money to post bail.

Now compare this to witnesses changing their story after admitting that their opinions have changed after watching TV. Or admitting that their stories have changed 30 days later.

My experience would tell me to bet on Zimmerman's credibility here.

[clambake]

george wouldn't have done this in the old days.

he would have used his rhodesian ridgeback.

[elbamba]

Why guess? He called the police.

So everytime someone calls the police they profile?

[clambake]

If I were Zimmerman's defense attorny. I would hope and pray that their case against my client's credibility is based on whether or not he lied about the $150,000.00.

You see, usually past instances of misbahavior are not admissible, except when it comes to crimes that question a person's integrety (i.e. fraud,). So it would be in the prosecutions best interest to bring a charge of perjury against Zimmerman as it would directly attack his credibility. The prosecutor seems to be intentionally not bringing this charge because there is nothing to it and she knows it.

Lets jump back and consider your allegation of lying compared to the witnesses, which started this thread. In Zimmerman's case, he disclosed the money within 24 hours of the hearing right? Well before he used $5,000 of the money to post bail.

Now compare this to witnesses changing their story after admitting that their opinions have changed after watching TV. Or admitting that their stories have changed 30 days later.

My experience would tell me to bet on Zimmerman's credibility here.
ummmmmm, he spent 54K in 2 months.

[Goran Dragic]

rofl the Zimmerman crowd trying to claim that there's a HUGE difference between "follow" and "stalk" in this situation.

[ChumpDumper]

So everytime someone calls the police they profile?Why did he call the police?

[ChumpDumper]

rofl the Zimmerman crowd trying to claim that there's a HUGE difference between "follow" and "stalk" in this situation.Stealthy is the difference.

As if that meant categorically impossible to detect.

[Goran Dragic]

rofl so basically they're saying if George Zimmerman wasn't a porker and didn't pant when he had to get out of his car and walk he would have been stalking and that would change everything but instead it was just following.

He's lucky he's fat and probably drags his feet when he walks tbh.

[Heath Ledger]

Zimmerman also had a broken nose. And the doctor that treated him for it is going to testify. Self defense, stand your ground acquittal. Book it Danno.

[clambake]

by the way, the judge wants to hear more about the money before listening to the argument.

care to take a 1000 guesses on what he spent the 54K on?

[clambake]

oh, and it was 204K before he pissed away 54K.

[clambake]

you know, of the money he said he didn't have?

[Heath Ledger]

links to the money spent?

[clambake]

you didn't have a big sword purchase?

[ChumpDumper]

links to the money spent?Ah, I'd have to find that again. It was characterized as living expenses.

[elbamba]

by the way, the judge wants to hear more about the money before listening to the argument.

care to take a 1000 guesses on what he spent the 54K on?

At this stage, no. I am falling into what you do by talking out of my ass without facts to back it up. Truth is the only thing I know about this account is what I read in two articles. Neither article mentioned that 54K was spent. One did mention that he spent 5K on bail.

The judge wants to hear more about it because the prosecutor asked for the bail to be increased. Notice she did not ask to her amend her pleading to include a perjury charge. FYI Martin's family attorney wants the perjury charge and he wants Zimmerman back in jail.

[Goran Dragic]

you didn't have a big sword purchase?
:lol

[clambake]

At this stage, no. I am falling into what you do by talking out of my ass without facts to back it up. Truth is the only thing I know about this account is what I read in two articles. Neither article mentioned that 54K was spent. One did mention that he spent 5K on bail.

The judge wants to hear more about it because the prosecutor asked for the bail to be increased. Notice she did not ask to her amend her pleading to include a perjury charge. FYI Martin's family attorney wants the perjury charge and he wants Zimmerman back in jail.

you still think its 150K. it is now. cuz he spent 54K.

[elbamba]

Why did he call the police?

My best guess is that there had been a series of break ins and he was calling the police to prevent another one.I suppose you could lable that profiling. Certainly nothing illegal about it and certainly no proof of racial profiling.

[ChumpDumper]

My best guess is that there had been a series of break ins and he was calling the police to prevent another one.I suppose you could lable that profiling. Certainly nothing illegal about it and certainly no proof of racial profiling.What made him think that Martin was about to commit a break-in?

[Trill Clinton]

Ah, I'd have to find that again. It was characterized as living expenses.

:lmao

how much is his daddy charging him to sleep on his couch? living expenses *chuckles*

[cantthinkofanything]

What made him think that Martin was about to commit a break-in?

hoodie

[ChumpDumper]

hoodieProfile.

Thank you for your honesty.

[elbamba]

What made him think that Martin was about to commit a break-in?

His comments do not suggest that he thought Martin was about to commit a break-in, that is my guess.

[ChumpDumper]

His comments do not suggest that he thought Martin was about to commit a break-in, that is my guess.So he called the police about Martin for no reason at all?

:lmao

[Goran Dragic]

hoodie


I suspect that the % of black people wearing hoodies that commit crimes is higher than the % of white people wearing hoodies that commit violent crimes.
So was it just the fact he was wearing a hoodie? You seem to be justifying a different kind of profiling other than hoodie wearing.

[elbamba]

you still think its 150K. it is now. cuz he spent 54K.

Show me the evidence. The two articles I read do not support your claim. I am sure the defense will supply an accounting and that will take care of that.

Why do you think the prosecutor isn't charging perjury? You still have not answered even though I have responded to all of your questions.

[elbamba]

So he called the police about Martin for no reason at all?

:lmao

Do you have access to Zimmerman statements that explain why he called the police?

[Goran Dragic]

Do you have access to Zimmerman statements that explain why he called the police?
Why do you think Zimmerman called the police?

[elbamba]

Why do you think Zimmerman called the police?

Asked and answered my friend.

[cantthinkofanything]

So was it just the fact he was wearing a hoodie? You seem to be justifying a different kind of profiling other than hoodie wearing.

I think it's not out of the question that Zimmerman followed Travon because he was black and wearing a hoodie. Maybe the hoodie didn't play a big part or maybe it did. From everything out so far, it seems that Travon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and got shot. Maybe Travon feared for his life and confronted Zimmerman. But if he feared for his life, he had the option to run away. At the point Zimmerman feared for his life, running wasn't an option. Unfortunate chain of events but if things played out like that, justice (in terms of legal justice) would be Zimmerman being found not guilty.

[elbamba]

So he called the police about Martin for no reason at all?

:lmao

Read the transcript. I believe Zimmerman told the dispatcher that he saw a suspect walking in the rain and looked suspicious, like he was on drugs.

Perhaps Zimmerman saw Martin looking in through a window, we don't know. You do not and I do not. It is all blind speculation. The only story that will matter in this case is Zimmermans, unless there is a smoking gun. I think I hear an echo in here.

[Goran Dragic]

Asked and answered my friend.
Yeah, um...


My best guess is that there had been a series of break ins and he was calling the police to prevent another one.I suppose you could lable that profiling. Certainly nothing illegal about it and certainly no proof of racial profiling.

His comments do not suggest that he thought Martin was about to commit a break-in, that is my guess.

So was he calling because he suspected Martin was about to commit a break in or something else?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you have access to Zimmerman statements that explain why he called the police?Ah, now is the time when the lawyer realizes he's painted himself in to a corner.

[pats self on back]

[Goran Dragic]

I think it's not out of the question that Zimmerman followed Travon because he was black and wearing a hoodie. Maybe the hoodie didn't play a big part or maybe it did.
So you're admitting there's a strong chance Zimmy was profiling.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, um...




So was he calling because he suspected Martin was about to commit a break in or something else?Forget it. It's time for him to stonewall.

[Goran Dragic]

:lol if I'm ever on trial for something I hope to god ElBamba isn't my defense attorney

[elbamba]

I think it's not out of the question that Zimmerman followed Travon because he was black and wearing a hoodie. Maybe the hoodie didn't play a big part or maybe it did. From everything out so far, it seems that Travon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and got shot. Maybe Travon feared for his life and confronted Zimmerman. But if he feared for his life, he had the option to run away. At the point Zimmerman feared for his life, running wasn't an option. Unfortunate chain of events but if things played out like that, justice (in terms of legal justice) would be Zimmerman being found not guilty.

I think I can agree with just about everything that you say. However, the lawyer in me wants to argue every stage of the incident. And there are ligitimate arguments to every phase of the prosecutions case, including the alleged racial profiling and stalking so many posters on here believe happened.

[elbamba]

:lol if I'm ever on trial for something I hope to god ElBamba isn't my defense attorney

You could not afford me so it doesn't matter.

[clambake]

Show me the evidence. The two articles I read do not support your claim. I am sure the defense will supply an accounting and that will take care of that.
just say you don't believe me and claim it was only 150K. just say that george didn't lie about having any money, even though he's pissed away 54K already, so i can bookmark it.


Why do you think the prosecutor isn't charging perjury? You still have not answered even though I have responded to all of your questions.

how do you know she won't? the judge said he wants more information about the money before hearing argument.

before hearing argument.

[ChumpDumper]

I think I can agree with just about everything that you say. However, the lawyer in me wants to argue every stage of the incident. And there are ligitimate arguments to every phase of the prosecutions case, including the alleged racial profiling and stalking so many posters on here believe happened.I never said anything about racial profiling, counselor.

:hat

[Goran Dragic]

You could not afford me
what makes you think that?

[Yonivore]

And there are ligitimate arguments to every phase of the prosecutions case, including the alleged racial profiling...
Not mentioned until the police dispatcher asked the race of the suspicious person.

Also, Zimmerman said why he was suspicious. The person was acting like he was under the influence of something, walking around in the rain, staring at houses.


...and stalking so many posters on here believe happened.
Stalking in the legal sense or, stalking in the it's-a-scary-verb-that-makes-Zimmerman's-following-a-suspicious-person-in-a-neighborhood-experiencing-a-high-incidence-of-property-crimes-and-burglary-sound-ominous sense?

[clambake]

got his gun, left his daddy's house, got in daddy's vehicle and found what he was looking for.

[clambake]

a few weeks later he throws a 50K party with the money he said he didn't have. lol

[elbamba]

Ah, now is the time when the lawyer realizes he's painted himself in to a corner.

[pats self on back]

What corner? You think I would be wasting my time talking about the pointless conversation we have had today if I was representing Zimmerman? These are all redherings by lay people who do not understand that Zimmerman has a rediculously strong case.

My attention would focus solely on why stand your ground is applicable. My story would begin not with the phone call but right about where the 16 year old witness gave a statement that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating his ass.

If I lose my request for the case to be dismissed on stand your ground then I prepare for trial by picking apart the prosecutors case. They essentailly have to show that after the cop told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow that Zimmerman ignored this and intentionally sought and shot Martin. Good luck proving that case without a eye witness.

[elbamba]

I never said anything about racial profiling, counselor.

:hat

I did take that into account when I conceded that you could label this as profiling.

[ChumpDumper]

What corner? You think I would be wasting my time talking about the pointless conversation we have had today if I was representing Zimmerman? These are all redherings by lay people who do not understand that Zimmerman has a rediculously strong case.I never said he didn't, counselor -- but I would have spelled herring and ridiculously correctly.

[ChumpDumper]

I did take that into account when I conceded that you could label this as profiling.OK, so we can conclude Zimmerman incorrectly profiled Martin.

[elbamba]

what makes you think that?

Quality of posts I guess. The only thing I can base it on. Plus I no longer do criminal dense. I work in condemnation law.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Show me the evidence. The two articles I read do not support your claim. I am sure the defense will supply an accounting and that will take care of that.

Why do you think the prosecutor isn't charging perjury? You still have not answered even though I have responded to all of your questions.

Zimmerman's lawyer said that when he made those statements about Zimmerman indigence in court he was not aware of the websites and the $200k.

Therefor its not perjury.

Zimmerman never said anything along those lines in court. His lawyer spoke on his behalf and his lawyer said that Zimmerman had not disclosed his available fund or the income stream.

Its not perjury but it certainly is deception unless you insist on sticking your head in the sand. He had his lawyer claim that he was indigent when he had a website that was paying out in a month more twice what the average American makes in a year.

[clambake]

penniless george must have felt jacked while blowing that 50K......that he claimed he didn't have.

[elbamba]

Stalking in the legal sense or, stalking in the it's-a-scary-verb-that-makes-Zimmerman's-following-a-suspicious-person-in-a-neighborhood-experiencing-a-high-incidence-of-property-crimes-and-burglary-sound-ominous sense?

From a legal perspective. No one in here would care about my opinion otherwise. Most people probably don't care about my legal opinion either but I post when I think it is of worth.

[ChumpDumper]

From a legal perspective. No one in here would care about my opinion otherwise. Most people probably don't care about my legal opinion either but I post when I think it is of worth.Yes, we all know that negative characterizations are reserved solely for Martin in this case.

[elbamba]

Zimmerman's lawyer said that when he made those statements about Zimmerman indigence in court he was not aware of the websites and the $200k.

Therefor its not perjury.

Zimmerman never said anything along those lines in court. His lawyer spoke on his behalf and his lawyer said that Zimmerman had not disclosed his available fund or the income stream.

Its not perjury but it certainly is deception unless you insist on sticking your head in the sand. He had his lawyer claim that he was indigent when he had a website that was paying out in a month more twice what the average American makes in a year.

Interesting point. I don't know if I equate this to lying or misleading to a degree that it will soil his credibility. But I see your point.

[clambake]

Zimmerman's lawyer said that when he made those statements about Zimmerman indigence in court he was not aware of the websites and the $200k.

Therefor its not perjury.

Zimmerman never said anything along those lines in court. His lawyer spoke on his behalf and his lawyer said that Zimmerman had not disclosed his available fund or the income stream.

Its not perjury but it certainly is deception unless you insist on sticking your head in the sand. He had his lawyer claim that he was indigent when he had a website that was paying out in a month more twice what the average American makes in a year.

yes, and after more questions about the money from his lawyer, george said he didn't know he could use it. even though he already blew 50K. lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What corner? You think I would be wasting my time talking about the pointless conversation we have had today if I was representing Zimmerman? These are all redherings by lay people who do not understand that Zimmerman has a rediculously strong case.

My attention would focus solely on why stand your ground is applicable. My story would begin not with the phone call but right about where the 16 year old witness gave a statement that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating his ass.

If I lose my request for the case to be dismissed on stand your ground then I prepare for trial by picking apart the prosecutors case. They essentailly have to show that after the cop told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow that Zimmerman ignored this and intentionally sought and shot Martin. Good luck proving that case without a eye witness.

Well its nice to see that you are trying the case without shit for evidence much less that witness' sworn statement on the behalf of the defense.

When I people try to play defense attorney or prosecutor, I just roll my eyes.

[Yonivore]

From a legal perspective. No one in here would care about my opinion otherwise. Most people probably don't care about my legal opinion either but I post when I think it is of worth.
So, how are Zimmerman's actions counter to Florida's stalking laws?

[ChumpDumper]

So, how are Zimmerman's actions counter to Florida's stalking laws?No one ever claimed Zimmerman broke stalking laws, so leave that straw man be.

[Yonivore]

Yes, we all know that negative characterizations are reserved solely for Martin in this case.
:lmao Seriously?

Zimmerman has been vilified as everything but a child of God going on 2 months now.

[elbamba]

Yes, we all know that negative characterizations are reserved solely for Martin in this case.

You can make all the negative characterizations against Zimmerman you want. Knock yourself out. I have never once said I agree with what Zimmerman did. I admitted that I would not have left my car like Zimmerman did unless someone was attacking my family or trying to break into my house.

My point in posting in any of the Zimmerman threads has been that I think under Florida Law, Zimmerman is innocent. Stupid, maybe, but innocent nonetheless.

[elbamba]

Well its nice to see that you are trying the case without shit for evidence much less that witness' sworn statement on the behalf of the defense.

When I people try to play defense attorney or prosecutor, I just roll my eyes.

My opinion is based entirely on what I have been able to find in the news. I paid a lot of attention when this story first broke because I was annoyed that the media made this into a white vs. black case. I have read probably 50 articles on this and have talked to a few lawyers I know who are in the community but who ultimately did not have much to add outside of what I could find online.

Based on the pictures and the witness statement of I believe a 16 year kid who said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, I reached my conclusion. There is certainly loads of evidence that I have not seen, however, if we are trying the case online, I think I win.

The witnesses sworn testimony that you refer to are all witnesses changing their testimony and admitting they did so for various reasons that I believe will ultimately exclude them from being admissible (i.e. witness changing his testimony after watching tv).

You can roll your eyes all you want and tell me why I am wrong. I have thick skin. But this is a message board so I will post the message that I think some people might find interesting.

[clambake]

not you or a single one of the lawyers you talked to knew about the money?

hmmmm

[elbamba]

So, how are Zimmerman's actions counter to Florida's stalking laws?

Flordia stalking laws require that the offender repeatedly follow or harrass an indivdual. There are other elements but this is what matters. The whole statute is here: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.048.html

Usually, repeat means that it would have to happen more than once. In other words, Zimmerman would have had to follow and harrass Martin more than one time to rise to stalking.

That is a very simplistic explaination, but accurate I think.

[Yonivore]

No one ever claimed Zimmerman broke stalking laws, so leave that straw man be.


I think I can agree with just about everything that you say. However, the lawyer in me wants to argue every stage of the incident. And there are ligitimate arguments to every phase of the prosecutions case, including the alleged racial profiling and stalking so many posters on here believe happened.


Stalking in the legal sense or, stalking in the it's-a-scary-verb-that-makes-Zimmerman's-following-a-suspicious-person-in-a-neighborhood-experiencing-a-high-incidence-of-property-crimes-and-burglary-sound-ominous sense?


From a legal perspective. No one in here would care about my opinion otherwise. Most people probably don't care about my legal opinion either but I post when I think it is of worth.


So, how are Zimmerman's actions counter to Florida's stalking laws?

Go troll someone else for awhile.