Is kobe a top 15 player of all time?

[apalisoc_9]

Unless you're an idiot like most kobe fans, you would know kobe is not top 10..But is he atleast top 15?

[Venti Quattro]

I'm an idiot, and yes, Kobe is a top 10 player of all time.

[baseline bum]

I think Kobe is easily in the top 15, and probably top 10, real talk.

[Venti Quattro]

5 championships
2 Finals MVPs
1 MVP
9 NBA All-Defense teams
14 All-NBA team mentions
10 All-NBA first teams
14 All-Star appearances
4 All-Star Game MVPs
16 years (and counting) in the league

Name me 10 players who have that kind of resume.

[DPG21920]

I'm an idiot, and yes, Kobe is a top 10 player of all time.

It's arguable that he is 9 or 10, but after this year with a stacked team how he under performed, I have him in the 12-15 range. He can climb higher if he has a run like Tim is having.

[slick'81]

kobe is top10.

[DPG21920]

If he's top 10, he's no better than 9, but I don't see it.

[Venti Quattro]

If he's top 10, he's no better than 9, but I don't see it.

You're just making it hard for yourself. He's top 10, easily.

[apalisoc_9]

I'm an idiot, and yes, Kobe is a top 10 player of all time.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kareem
Hakeem
Larry
Bill
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Oscar Robertson

And Who exaclty is inferior to kobe on this list?...

[Richie]

Top 15 easily. Top 10, likely in the 8-10 range just below Duncan and Shaq

[apalisoc_9]

I think Kobe is easily in the top 15, and probably top 10, real talk.

I have 13 but really considering the fact that most of his personal achievement are bogus and that fact that he shoots horribly and the fact that he is a horrible teammate made me ask this question..although 12-15 is not that bad..

[midnightpulp]

Top 15 easily. Top 10, likely in the 8-10 range just below Duncan and Shaq

[baseline bum]

I think my rankings would be

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Olajuwon
6. O'Neal
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Bryant
10. Chamberlain

I'm not even sure if Wilt deserves top 10 after reading so many horrible things about him in Simmons' book (especially what other players thought of his stat-padding and how it cost his team games, even big playoff games).

[lefty]

Kobe is top 20


Which is still good, don't be ashamed Laker fans

[midnightpulp]

I think my rankings would be

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Olajuwon
6. O'Neal
7. Russell
8. Duncan
9. Bryant
10. Chamberlain

I'm not even sure if Wilt deserves top 10 after reading so many horrible things about him in Simmons' book (especially what other players thought of his stat-padding).

Most overrated player of all-time. Lol at passing up open shots to pad his assist totals. Don't know why people continue to knob slob this guy.

[apalisoc_9]

5 championships
1 Finals MVPs
1 MVP
2 NBA All-Defense teams
14 All-NBA team mentions
6 All-NBA first teams
14 All-Star appearances
4 All-Star Game MVPs
16 years (and counting) in the league

Name me 10 players who have that kind of resume.

LOL All-star Chucking..If you think he deserves even half of those all defensive teams, you're kidding yourself..I fixed the number for what he truly deserved

[Reck]

He's top 15.

[DPG21920]

You're just making it hard for yourself. He's top 10, easily.

Great argument :tu

This has been hashed out numerous times on here by myself and others. I won't argue too much if you say he's 9 or 10, but it's most definitely not "easily". Based on this years failures I have him 12 to 15. That's not a knock, that's still incredible.

[apalisoc_9]

I think my rankings would be

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Olajuwon
6. O'Neal
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Bryant
10. Chamberlain

I'm not even sure if Wilt deserves top 10 after reading so many horrible things about him in Simmons' book (especially what other players thought of his stat-padding and how it cost his team games, even big playoff games).

I know a guy in real life laker fan who think he is the greatest of al time:lmao.

[-21-]

Top 15 easily. Probably top 10 too but it's arguable...

[Venti Quattro]

My rankings would be:

1. Michael
2. Magic
3. Larry
4. Kareem
5. Hakeem
6. Russell
7. Tim
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Logo

Wilt was a stat guy, but damn his stats are the most overrated in the history of basketball.

[midnightpulp]

My rankings would be:

Michael
Magic
Larry
Kareem
Hakeem
Tim
Kobe
Shaq
Oscar

Wilt was a stat guy, but damn his stats are the most overrated in the history of basketball.

:tu

[Richie]

A better question is where is LeBron? Surely ahead of the likes of Malone and Barkley already

[KD4MVP]

Probably in the 8-10 range at worst.

[KD4MVP]

a better question is where is lebron? Surely ahead of the likes of malone and barkley already

18-20

[-21-]

I think Kobe is easily in the top 15, and probably top 10, real talk.

Truth... no matter how I hate Kobe.

[baseline bum]

Most overrated player of all-time. Lol at passing up open shots to pad his assist totals. Don't know why people continue to knob slob this guy.

Not to mention just refusing to play defense after 4 fouls for fear of fouling out. I know Kobe threw that game 7 in Phoenix, but I'd still take him over Wilt in a second. It blew my mind to read a Lakers team that kept getting edged out by the Celtics wanted no part of him being on the team in 65. Could you imagine Tim Duncan and David Robinson ever telling Pop not to trade for Kobe?

[DPG21920]

Russell and Shaq both over Kobe.

[Venti Quattro]

I rank Kobe higher than Shaq because of how well-documented he coasted during regular seasons. And because honestly, homer bias aside, I think Kobe has earned it.

[DPG21920]

I think Kobe is easily in the top 15, and probably top 10, real talk.

That's what i said but I'm doing a shtick :lol

[stretch]

top 10 definitely

anyone who says otherwise is fucking stupid

he has his flaws, but despite them, his abilities and accomplishments are more than enough to have him top 10

[Blake]

5 championships
2 Finals MVPs
1 MVP
9 NBA All-Defense teams
14 All-NBA team mentions
10 All-NBA first teams
14 All-Star appearances
4 All-Star Game MVPs
16 years (and counting) in the league

Name me 10 players who have that kind of resume.

lol one MVP

[DPG21920]

I rank Kobe higher than Shaq because of how well-documented he coasted during regular seasons. And because honestly, homer bias aside, I think Kobe has earned it.

By quitting, chucking, throwing teammates under the bus, failing to lead and under achieving with a stacked team?

[stretch]

Russell and Shaq both over Kobe.

dumbass

[Reck]

I rank Kobe higher than Shaq because of how well-documented he coasted during regular seasons. And because honestly, I think Kobe has earned it.

How has he earned it? After Shaq left LA Kobe and the Lakers struggled mightily.

Shaq is ahead of Kobe because of what he brings. Kobe always needed that push.

[DPG21920]

top 10 definitely

anyone who says otherwise is fucking stupid

he has his flaws, but despite them, his abilities and accomplishments are more than enough to have him top 10

No. There are certainly arguments to have him in the 12-15 range.

[Venti Quattro]

By quitting, chucking, throwing teammates under the bus, failing to lead and under achieving with a stacked team?

Two rings, three finals appearances. How often do you see that happen in a diluted, watered down 30-franchise league? The Spurs can't even obtain back to back Finals appearances.

[stretch]

No. There are certainly arguments to have him in the 12-15 range.

ranking bill russell ahead of him is not an argument to have him in the 12-15 range

[DPG21920]

dumbass

:lol your opinion is not credible.

[midnightpulp]

Not to mention just refusing to play defense after 4 fouls for fear of fouling out. I know Kobe threw that game 7 in Phoenix, but I'd still take him over Wilt in a second. It blew my mind to read a Lakers team that kept getting edged out by the Celtics wanted no part of him being on the team in 65. Could you imagine Tim Duncan and David Robinson ever telling Pop not to trade for Kobe?

Rofl. Scared to foul out because he wouldn't be able to stay in the game to pad his stats.

[Venti Quattro]

Rofl. Scared to foul out because he wouldn't be able to stay in the game to pad his stats.

Also, :lmao Barry

Damn that guy was the ultimate NBA douche.

:lmao Refusing to shoot because his teammates did not stand up for him :lmao

[baseline bum]

Rofl. Scared to foul out because he wouldn't be able to stay in the game to pad his stats.

It wasn't that. It was important to him that he retire having never fouled out of a game. What a stupid record to place above winning titles.

[stretch]

Two rings, three finals appearances. How often do you see that happen in a diluted, watered down 30-franchise league? The Spurs can't even obtain back to back Finals appearances.

im trying to figure out why people think his team was so stacked this year...

gasol is clearly not what he was 2-3 years ago

bynum is a fucking pussy, even though he has the ability to be a top 2 center in the league

after those two guys, how are the lakers so stacked? Sessions is a solid player, but nothing amazing. Steve Blake? World Peace? Matt Barnes?

The team is incredibly mediocre to shit after Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum. Not to mention Kobe himself is on the downside of his career too. Take Kobe from 3 years ago, plug him into this exact team, and the Lakers gets past the Thunder.

[Venti Quattro]

How has he earned it? After Shaq left LA Kobe and the Lakers struggled mightily.
That's why he earned it exactly, buddy. :tu He struggled and then regained championship form again.


Shaq is ahead of Kobe because of what he brings. Kobe always needed that push.
I know what Shaq brings and what he could have brought if he didn't coast and milk injuries.

[-21-]

You know what's gonna be hard is when more NBA greats come in the future... Who's gonna get thrown out of the top 10.

[DPG21920]

Stretch with the "I'll say Bill Russell was overrated because that means I'm smart" attack

[baseline bum]

You know what's gonna be hard is when more NBA greats come in the future... Who's gonna get thrown out of the top 10.

I'll throw Wilt out for sure if LeBron can ring 2 or 3 times.

[stretch]

:lol your opinion is not credible.

yours is even less by the fact that you view Russell as > Kobe and on the same plateau as Shaq

[Venti Quattro]

It wasn't that. It was important to him that he retire having never fouled out of a game. What a stupid record to place above winning titles.

The Lakers even rejected trading for him in 1965. :lol

That was Wilt fucking Chamberlain that they were trading for, and the players voted not to bring him in. :lol

[stretch]

Stretch with the "I'll say Bill Russell was overrated because that means I'm smart" attack

DPG with the "I'll say Bill Russell is top 12 even though I don't know what the shit I'm talking about" bads

[DPG21920]

im trying to figure out why people think his team was so stacked this year...

gasol is clearly not what he was 2-3 years ago

bynum is a fucking pussy, even though he has the ability to be a top 2 center in the league

after those two guys, how are the lakers so stacked? Sessions is a solid player, but nothing amazing. Steve Blake? World Peace? Matt Barnes?

The team is incredibly mediocre to shit after Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum. Not to mention Kobe himself is on the downside of his career too. Take Kobe from 3 years ago, plug him into this exact team, and the Lakers gets past the Thunder.

Are you kidding with this post? You can't have it both ways - Kobe and his bigs getting accolades then saying they suck. Team had flaws but this is a weak nba and every team had flaws, major ones. Underperforming does not equal sucking aka Heat in the finals last year.

[DPG21920]

DPG with the "I'll say Bill Russell is top 12 even though I don't know what the shit I'm talking about" bads

Ya - let's post that question and see who's considered silly.

[baseline bum]

The player I hate to not have in the top 10 is Isiah. Yeah, his stats may not look mind-blowing, but damn he was a monster player.

[DPG21920]

yours is even less by the fact that you view Russell as > Kobe and on the same plateau as Shaq

If your attack on me is centered around you hating on Russell there's no point in talking.

[Reck]

That's why he earned it exactly, buddy. :tu He struggled and then regained championship form again.


I know what Shaq brings and what he could have brought if he didn't coast and milk injuries.

After Gasol came in, of course he regained championship form. That's not exactly earning it.

[midnightpulp]

The Lakers even rejected trading for him in 1965. :lol

That was Wilt fucking Chamberlain that they were trading for, and the players voted not to bring him in. :lol

The Stilt simply didn't make his team better. Bill Russell was an infinitely better team basketball player, which is why most fans have him higher than Wilt on their all-time lists.

[stretch]

Robert Horry > Tim Duncan

its all about the rings

[Venti Quattro]

The Stilt simply didn't make his team better. Bill Russell was an infinitely better team basketball player, which is why most fans have him higher than Wilt on their all-time lists.
It's ridiculous how he spent an inordinate amount of time with stats and not with actually winning the game. For all his worldly talents, I am still boggled until now as to why he was so scared of the moment.

He had the stats, all he had to do was just to make them count. But no, he could not achieve that transition.

[stretch]

Are you kidding with this post? You can't have it both ways - Kobe and his bigs getting accolades then saying they suck. Team had flaws but this is a weak nba and every team had flaws, major ones. Underperforming does not equal sucking aka Heat in the finals last year.

:lmao still asshurt over the 2011 finals

apparently good players can't have flaws that heavily plague them in playoff basketball, nor can players fade when they get older and lose their physical advantages they previously had. all players can play in the NBA till they are 100.

:cry great fuckin logic :cry

[DPG21920]

Stretch with just an absolutely terrible argument. Saying things I didn't even say :lol

[stretch]

Stretch with just an absolutely terrible argument. Saying things I didn't even say :lol

cool story bro :tu

[DPG21920]

:lmao still asshurt over the 2011 finals

apparently good players can't have flaws that heavily plague them in playoff basketball, nor can players fade when they get older and lose their physical advantages they previously had. all players can play in the NBA till they are 100.

:cry great fuckin logic :cry

That makes zero sense. Tim gets penalized for his late years, all do. LA was flawed but name a contender that is not heavily flawed? If your a functioning top 10 player of all time & you have 2 top 5 bigs in a watered down league there are no excuses not to be a contender. None. They weren't injured. They under performed largely in part to Kobe's flaws that have existed his entire career; nothing to do with his age.

You keep acting like I'm hating on Kobe. He's a phenomenal player and I have him in the 12-15 range of all time. It's not a ridiculous statement. What's ridiculous is trying to knock Russell to prop up Kobe.

I'm not upset about last year either. Did MIA not under achieve? They clearly didn't play anywhere near the level they could have. My point is even do dominant players can under perform.

[DPG21920]

fake quotes is telling people :tu

[Stalin]

Kobe is top 20 at best, if you take into account his shitty leadership, chucking, raping, blatantly ripping of jordan's game, coattaling shaq to 3 titles. Then coattaling the most dominant frontline in the nba to another 2 titles. When kobe doesn't have a better player(s) to coattail, he's busy getting bounced in first rounds and missing playoffs completelly, tbqh.


http://kobebryantisoverrated.webs.com/

[DPG21920]

Kobe is great, but Stretches of the world that say "top 10 easily!!!" are silly IMO.

[baseline bum]

11-15 is insanely difficult for me to pick. I don't have any idea how I'd choose the top 5 from Isiah, Oscar, Baylor, West, Nowitzki, Barkley, Garnett, Pippen, Havlicek, Erving, Moses Malone, Wade, and LeBron.

[Venti Quattro]

Holy shit that's hard. Any one of them could be ranked in the top 11-15 and we would be perfectly okay with it.

[DPG21920]

That group: isiah, Oscar, Kobe, dirk, lebron

[ElNono]

he's second tier... but definitely top 15... top-10, not so sure, tbh

[lefty]

Russell was a glorified Ben Wallace TBH

[stretch]

That makes zero sense. Tim gets penalized for his late years, all do. LA was flawed but name a contender that is not heavily flawed? If your a functioning top 10 player of all time & you have 2 top 5 bigs in a watered down league there are no excuses not to be a contender. None. They weren't injured. They under performed largely in part to Kobe's flaws that have existed his entire career; nothing to do with his age.

Gasol is a top 5 PF/C?

:lmao okay

Bynum SHOULD be a top 5 PF/C, but he showed he doesn't have what it takes to be a true #1 option in these playoffs. Dude is a pussy when he needs to step up and be the man. Instead, he cried like a faggot, refused to pass the ball when doubled, and when he actually would, half the time he would just throw a turnover.

I agree that to an extent, the Lakers underachieved, but lets not kid ourselves... OKC had a LOT of fortune go their way to win that series. It could have easily been LA up 3-1, as opposed to down 3-1. They didn't just get dominated by any means. Plus, OKC is a very good team.



You keep acting like I'm hating on Kobe. He's a phenomenal player and I have him in the 12-15 range of all time. It's not a ridiculous statement. What's ridiculous is trying to knock Russell to prop up Kobe.

I've always felt Russell is massively overrated, not just knocking him for the sake of propping up Kobe. You know why? Because he is, for the same reasons Wilt is overrated. They were players that were way ahead of their time. They dominated in a league where no one could remotely physically match up to them, much like high school "phenoms" can dominate, because they are way ahead of the competition. But put them among players who actually can physically match up with them, and 50 ppg suddenly isn't quite as feasible.


I'm not upset about last year either. Did MIA not under achieve? They clearly didn't play anywhere near the level they could have. My point is even do dominant players can under perform.

So Bynum and Gasol can't underperform?

[stretch]

That group: isiah, Oscar, Kobe, dirk, lebron

:lmao

as much as I love Dirk and Lebron, no way in hell they belong 1 and 2 spots behind Kobe.

[stretch]

Kobe is top 20 at best, if you take into account his shitty leadership, chucking, raping, blatantly ripping of jordan's game, coattaling shaq to 3 titles. Then coattaling the most dominant frontline in the nba to another 2 titles. When kobe doesn't have a better player(s) to coattail, he's busy getting bounced in first rounds and missing playoffs completelly, tbqh.


http://kobebryantisoverrated.webs.com/

why is that such a crime? yeah, its obvious he is obsessed with MJ, but you could say that most any player "rips" past players games. You could say Duncan rips McHale and Hakeem's games, as he used a lot of the same moves they used. Or that Magic ripped Jerry West, Pistol Pete, and Oscar with his fancy play and versatility.

[Killakobe81]

Silly topic Wade is balling LeBron is being clutch and u guys wasting energy on a topic not even relevant to whats going on these playoffs. Kobe is a nonstory until October. Let's give Durant, Duncan, Parker and Westbrook their chance to shine. And get Kobe off your minds .. jeez.

[Killakobe81]

why is that such a crime? yeah, its obvious he is obsessed with MJ, but you could say that most any player "rips" past players games. You could say Duncan rips McHale and Hakeem's games, as he used a lot of the same moves they used. Or that Magic ripped Jerry West, Pistol Pete, and Oscar with his fancy play and versatility.

Great points but u wasting time with the insecure Duncan worshippers ...

[Stalin]

why is that such a crime? yeah, its obvious he is obsessed with MJ, but you could say that most any player "rips" past players games. You could say Duncan rips McHale and Hakeem's games, as he used a lot of the same moves they used. Or that Magic ripped Jerry West, Pistol Pete, and Oscar with his fancy play and versatility.

:lol TOSB team
:lol skunked
:lol fluke championship
:lol triple D Dynasty

[DAF86]

How many top 10/15 players of all-time missed the playoffs at their absolute prime? I can't think of one other than you know.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe is a top 10 player of all-time, but he has the most flawed resume of the bunch, tbh..

Jordan, Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Russell, Chamberlain and Duncan(9 of my top 10) have all achieved the Regular Season MVP + Finals MVP in the same season..Kobe is the only player of the bunch that hasn't achieved this feat, which is the pinnacle of basketball IMO..

[DAF86]

And no matter how much of a stat whore Wilt was, his numbers are just ridiculous, you can't ignore them. Nobody dominated individually the way he did.

[DPG21920]

:lmao

as much as I love Dirk and Lebron, no way in hell they belong 1 and 2 spots behind Kobe.

I wasn't ranking in any order, just my group from that list.

[Venti Quattro]

How many top 10/15 players of all-time missed the playoffs at their absolute prime? I can't think of one other than you know.
Hakeem at age 29.


And no matter how much of a stat whore Wilt was, his numbers are just ridiculous, you can't ignore them. Nobody dominated individually the way he did.
Not only was he a stat whore, he feared the crunch time. Haven't you been back-reading?

[DAF86]

I haven't seen most of them play but statistically/resume wise all this players could have a case over Kobe.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kareem
Larry
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar
Moses

[namlook]

Troll thread.

More realistically this thread should be about Duncan.

[DAF86]

Hakeem at age 29.


Not only was he a stat whore, he feared the crunch time. Haven't you been back-reading?

I don't care, he won all that he had to win and he posted 50ppg and triple-double seasons.

[Venti Quattro]

ohhhhhh I'm debating with Manu>Dirk

[DPG21920]

Troll thread.

More realistically this thread should be about Duncan.

lol

[BanditHiro]

He is top 20...i am not sure why laker fans find that offensive.

[HarlemHeat37]

Wilt is still in my top 5, despite Simmons's biased book..I read it when it was released, my opinion of Chamberlain hasn't changed..

I understand knocking him for his flaws and his selfishness, as well as his weak competition, but he had historical numbers that we'll never see again, he won titles, and he competed with Russell's teams that were much more stacked than Wilt's..

[DPG21920]

What do you think of Russell, HH

[HarlemHeat37]

Also, as I've been saying for years, Kobe's legacy will take a hit in the upcoming years, as his mentality won't change, despite his declining physical talent, tbh..these past 2 years have been the start..

[DPG21920]

Also, as I've been saying for years, Kobe's legacy will take a hit in the upcoming years, as his mentality won't change, despite his declining physical talent, tbh..these past 2 years have been the start..

Which is exactly my point. He was arguably top 9 or 10, but the last two years he gets penalized, which drops him to 12-15.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't knock Russell as much as most of today's fans, I still have him in my top 10, but I'd have him below Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, Jabbar and Olajuwon..

He's probably the most difficult player to rank, tbh..

[Venti Quattro]

Which is exactly my point. He was arguably top 9 or 10, but the last two years he gets penalized, which drops him to 12-15.

You're just mad that you lost a bet to DD. :lol

[DPG21920]

You're just mad that you lost a bet to DD. :lol

:lol I won two others against him. His was a bet he won in order not to pay me :lol

[LiamNeeson'shero]

My rankings would be:

1. Michael
2. Magic
3. Larry
4. Kareem
5. Hakeem
6. Russell
7. Tim
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Logo

Wilt was a stat guy, but damn his stats are the most overrated in the history of basketball.

just flip russell and kareem and that is the perfect list

[HarlemHeat37]

Also, Hakeem has a very flawed resume for a player with his hype, tbh..

[OKC Thunderstorm]

The player I hate to not have in the top 10 is Isiah. Yeah, his stats may not look mind-blowing, but damn he was a monster player.

I agree on Isiah. He seems to get lost in the shuffle when people mention greats fom the 80's and early 90's. He was probably 3rd best to Bird and Magic in the mid 80's until MJ developed further. And for a few years in the early 90's he may have been only second to MJ. No way is Stockton or Kidd better PG's than Isiah in my book. Oh and though a very good passer Isiah was a scorer first. the same shit people kill Westbrook, Parker (used to) and Rose for.

[dunkman]

Kobe has RS stats and awards, except multiple MVP's, but what makes him a very dubious top 10 choice is that he's not a great playoffs or finals performer - except when he faced a team with sub-par wing defense, like the '01 Spurs or the '09 Magic.

[OKC Thunderstorm]

Kobe has RS stats and awards, except multiple MVP's, but what makes him a very dubious top 10 choice is that he's not a great playoffs or finals performer - except when he faced a team with sub-par wing defense, like the '01 Spurs or the '09 Magic.

Kobe's Finals performance has been up and down but to say those are his only 2 good Playoff performances is pretty dumb. Durant will be better than Kobe before long but the hate you guys have here for Kobe is pretty dumb. You guys are pretty insecure around here. :lol
Durant is going to surpass many on that list when it's all said and done. he will have his 4th straight scoring title by this time next year. :wakeup

[ElNono]

http://i46.tinypic.com/rbz3hu.png

[baseline bum]

How many top 10/15 players of all-time missed the playoffs at their absolute prime? I can't think of one other than you know.

Olajuwon

[dunkman]

Kobe's Finals performance has been up and down but to say those are his only 2 good Playoff performances is pretty dumb. Durant will be better than Kobe before long but the hate you guys have here for Kobe is pretty dumb. You guys are pretty insecure around here. :lol
Durant is going to surpass many on that list when it's all said and done. he will have his 4th straight scoring title by this time next year. :wakeup

What's pretty dumb is using strawman arguments, tbh.

[DAF86]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/4260609_700b.jpg

[100%duncan]

I'd put him between 9-15,imo.

[lefty]

20-25, which is still good

[diego]

I cant help but find it a little ironic that most of the people knocking Wilt for being a stat-whore, me first guy are the same ones that are propping Kobe, the same guy who plays garbage minutes of losses to pad his stats. Kobe's biggest argument for being top 10 is his scoring, but when you factor in his percentages and the fact he only has two scoring titles (durant 3, iverson 4)...

I can't fathom how anyone could rank kobe ahead of shaq. Its not a ranking of who has a better work ethic or is more serious. The only thing Kobe has that shaq doesn't is an 81 point game and one more ring; considering that shaq gifted him AT LEAST 1 ring, then all you have is the 81 point game. Despite coasting and not taking care of himself, Shaq has scored more points both RS and PO, in both cases with a better %, more boards, more blocks; all kobe has on him are assists and steals.
Not to mention, Shaq was the franchise player of his team for a longer period of time and is the more iconic player. To me Kobe is at best 10th, and more likely in the 13-16 range; until his career is over you cant say for certain, but IMO duncan and shaq are definitely ahead of him and hakeem, despite not comparing very favorably in terms of stats/accomplishments, is still the more iconic (dream shake!), higher impact player by virtue of being a big.

[Brazil]

Russel and Wilt are in my 10, kobe is not

I'd rank him between 11-13

[Brazil]

oh and :lol at the trends... after Wilt, Russel is over rated. I suppose next on the list is Shaq

[baseline bum]

I cant help but find it a little ironic that most of the people knocking Wilt for being a stat-whore, me first guy are the same ones that are propping Kobe, the same guy who plays garbage minutes of losses to pad his stats. Kobe's biggest argument for being top 10 is his scoring, but when you factor in his percentages and the fact he only has two scoring titles (durant 3, iverson 4)...

There is no way Kobe is as much of a stat whore as Wilt.

[Galileo]

West > Kobe

[OZWIN]

I'm an idiot, and yes, Kobe is a top 10 player of all time.


5 championships
2 Finals MVPs
1 MVP
9 NBA All-Defense teams
14 All-NBA team mentions
10 All-NBA first teams
14 All-Star appearances
4 All-Star Game MVPs
16 years (and counting) in the league

Name me 10 players who have that kind of resume.All dick riding aside...you won this thread. :toast

[BRHornet45]

Kobe a top 15 player? LMAO

lol sons there are some stupid ass people in this thread

[LobCity]

Hakeem's rep is floating him pretty high. He had two amazing playing runs resulting in two titles but otherwise he was basically in line with Patrick Ewing. His runs also came with Jordan out so that has to be factored in.

And in what universe does he get ranked ahead of Duncan?

[DPG21920]

He doesn't.

[tesseractive]

Hakeem's rep is floating him pretty high. He had two amazing playing runs resulting in two titles but otherwise he was basically in line with Patrick Ewing. His runs also came with Jordan out so that has to be factored in.

And in what universe does he get ranked ahead of Duncan?

Duncan has a better resume, but Hakeem was more obviously dominant if you watch the games. Duncan could quietly be the key to dismantling a team and putting them away and you'd barely realize it unless you knew to look for things like footwork and passing out of the double team, but Hakeem was in people's faces being a badass on both ends of the court.

That's not a knock on Hakeem -- he's absolutely a great player too, and he did the right things to win whenever he could, something you can't always say about Shaq, for example, who was another guy who was obviously dominant when you watched games.

But Duncan has carried his team to 4 titles so far, and put up the best 15 years of sustained regular-season winning ever. If Winning is what you care about, Duncan was better.

[Russo21]

You know what's gonna be hard is when more NBA greats come in the future... Who's gonna get thrown out of the top 10.

That's a good question man.

[Russo21]

Duncan has a better resume, but Hakeem was more obviously dominant if you watch the games. Duncan could quietly be the key to dismantling a team and putting them away and you'd barely realize it unless you knew to look for things like footwork and passing out of the double team, but Hakeem was in people's faces being a badass on both ends of the court.

But Duncan has carried his team to 4 titles so far, and put up the best 15 years of sustained regular-season winning ever. If Winning is what you care about, Duncan was better.

All true. Duncan's 15 year reign has been amazing.

I'd have to put Kobe in the top 20. Stat padding aside. He has some serious skills, won 5 championships. He has hurt himself, could have been higher if he wasnt sellfish and was a better teammate. Not to mention missing the playoffs. The great's don't do that. The great's have consistently great runs.

Missed the playoffs in 2005
First round exit in 2006 and 2007

That hurts

[BlackSwordsMan]

top 5

[nowhereman523]

It's tough - I'm between Kobe and Clyde for top 30.

Needed too much help.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list by SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)

[Stalin]

20-25, which is still good


Co sign

[ambchang]

Moses Malone getting seriously shafted in this discussion. Malone, at his prime, is as good as they come, at least as good as Shaq, Duncan, or even Kareem in their primes.

In no particular ranking, because I have not really put much thought into ranking them:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Hakeem
Moses Malone
Duncan
Shaq

Then 10-20:
Big O
Bob Pettit
Barkley
Logo
Baylor
Cowens
Havlicek
Kobe
Admiral
Dirk

If Lebron would stop choking, he would be top 10-20 easily, possibly in top 10 someday.

[dbreiden83080]

Duh...

[HarlemHeat37]

Moses Malone getting seriously shafted in this discussion. Malone, at his prime, is as good as they come, at least as good as Shaq, Duncan, or even Kareem in their primes.

In no particular ranking, because I have not really put much thought into ranking them:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Hakeem
Moses Malone
Duncan
Shaq

Then 10-20:
Big O
Bob Pettit
Barkley
Logo
Baylor
Cowens
Havlicek
Kobe
Admiral
Dirk

If Lebron would stop choking, he would be top 10-20 easily, possibly in top 10 someday.


Ranking "prime" will generate a noticeably different order on these lists, tbh..accomplishments vs. peak is a different argument..

[russellgoat]

russell 11> everybody else

also, Olajuwon>shaq. He was better in the clutch.

[Dick Jones]

I remember when I was a young poster for this forum. I used to call Kobe funny names. "Iron Butt." "Boner." Once I even called him..."asshole." But there was always respect. I always knew where the line was drawn. And you all just stepped over it, buddy-boys.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I remember when I was a young poster for this forum. I used to call Kobe funny names. "Iron Butt." "Boner." Once I even called him..."asshole." But there was always respect. I always knew where the line was drawn. And you all just stepped over it, buddy-boys.

Win.

[Latarian Milton]

kobe has been working real hard climbing up the list of all time scorers and there's a motive behind it we see. although he quit on his team on various occasions and he never succeeded winning it w/o another superstar playing alongside, he's still easily a top15 all time player no doubt

[HarlemHeat37]

Olajuwon is ranked mostly by peak play..career-wise, he has many blemishes on his resume, tbh..

[ambchang]

Ranking "prime" will generate a noticeably different order on these lists, tbh..accomplishments vs. peak is a different argument..

Moses has plenty of accomplishments too.

BTW, left out Dr. J if include ABA.

[mercos]

Kobe is one of the ten best players in NBA history. His accomplishments have been listed, as has his flaws, so I won't go there. As a Spurs fan, I unfortunately saw some of Kobe Bryant's best work first hand. His entry into the elite level of NBA players arguably occurred in the 2001 WCF against the Spurs. At his peak, when he was hot, Kobe was the most unguardable player in the league.

I would rank him in the bottom half of the top ten, beneath most of the great bigs of the last two decades. Basketball is a big man's game, and with the exception of Jordan they will always be more valuable and higher ranked in my eyes. That is why I would put Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe.

[ambchang]

Ranking "prime" will generate a noticeably different order on these lists, tbh..accomplishments vs. peak is a different argument..

That was not a list to rank primes. Malone belongs in the top 10 of all time just because of his prime.

Dude was, and still is, seriously underrated.

If he could talk, he would be ranked in the same level as Kareem.

[OldSilentHill]

No way.

http://i.imgur.com/bwhxx.jpg

[tesseractive]

No way.

http://i.imgur.com/bwhxx.jpg

Seems like a nice controller, but sadly, the buttons start working only intermittently with the game on the line.

[tesseractive]

That was not a list to rank primes. Malone belongs in the top 10 of all time just because of his prime.

Dude was, and still is, seriously underrated.

If he could talk, he would be ranked in the same level as Kareem.

Kareem played at a high level for nearly 2 decades, won 6 titles, and was unguardable.

Moses was a bad matchup for him head to head, but head to head isn't always as important as the whole body of work a guy submits over his career.

Moses was incredible, but not Kareem incredible.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

The op is a flat out dumbass..... but we already knew that. Anyway Kobe is def. top 10....maybe top 5 all-time depending on who you talk to

[ambchang]

Kareem played at a high level for nearly 2 decades, won 6 titles, and was unguardable.

Moses was a bad matchup for him head to head, but head to head isn't always as important as the whole body of work a guy submits over his career.

Moses was incredible, but not Kareem incredible.

Moses had a solid decade of brilliance. Yes, there is no question Kareem won in the longevity department, but Kareem was at the top for about 12 or 13 years, a few years more than Moses.

Most people forgot that Kareem in the 80's had Magic, he was good, but he was no longer at the top of his game for a chunk of the 80s (starting around 83/84) but had his stature boosted because he played in LA.

Moses was a beast for a very long time, not as long as Kareem, but for a significant portion of a decade. He won 3 MVPs, (two in a row for two different teams), a whole bunch of all-nba teams. The only thing that pulled him back was that he only had one ring, but again, why penalize Moses for not having the support Kareem and Bird had?