Perfect Scripture For The Spurs

[Thomas82]

My wife and I just got finished reading a scripture that just SCREAMED Spurs to both of us. When you get a minute, check out Proverbs 2:5-15....IMO, it fits the Spurs to a T, especially Tim Duncan.

[J.T.]

Gonna throw OP a bone here:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Proverbs+2%3A5-15

[ATX Spur]

Why don't you include the quote in your post? Let's assume that some of us have better books than the bible on our nightstands.

[TampaDude]

I prefer Austin 3:16 myself. :hat

[celldweller]

This one is more like it!!!!
http://www.host212.biz/template/prints/bmf.jpg

[Thomas82]

This one is more like it!!!!
http://www.host212.biz/template/prints/bmf.jpg


That's another good one!!

[Thomas82]

Why don't you include the quote in your post? Let's assume that some of us have better books than the bible on our nightstands.


Here it is right here:

Proverbs 2:5-15

5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. 7 He holds victory in store for the upright, he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless, 8 for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones. 9 Then you will understand what is right and just and fair--every good path. 10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. 11 Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you. 12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse, 13 who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways, 14 who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil, 15 whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their ways.

[underdawg]

Why don't you include the quote in your post? Let's assume that some of us have better books than the bible on our nightstands.

you don't

[100%duncan]

I prefer Austin 3:16 myself. :hat

Austin sucks. Triple H pawns his ass.

[TDMVPDPOY]

plz no tebow bullshit in here...we all atheist in here

[KevinMac]

That is a great portion of Scripture, and like the rest of the Book it is inarguable. I have to admit though, that I have never thought of the Spurs when reading it! Now every time I am reading in Proverbs I won't be able to NOT imagine Pop reading the wisdom out loud.

[ATX Spur]

The Thunder delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil? I don't like Westbrook's shirts either, but come on.

[ATX Spur]

you don't

I have a children's book about a man living inside a whale, others getting condemned for wearing clothes made of two different threads, and an invisible god genociding the world with a flood.

Wait, sorry that IS the bible on my nightstand. Why are we talking about this shit and not the Spurs' win?

[Thomas82]

The Thunder delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil? I don't like Westbrook's shirts either, but come on.

No...it's not the Thunder I was talking about. It's mainly David Stern and the rest of the powers that be.

[ATX Spur]

That is a great portion of Scripture, and like the rest of the Book it is inarguable. I have to admit though, that I have never thought of the Spurs when reading it! Now every time I am reading in Proverbs I won't be able to NOT imagine Pop reading the wisdom out loud.

Quite an imagination, because I bet Pop would read that Jacob Riis quote a thousand times before he quoted Proverbs in a team huddle.

[ATX Spur]

No...it's not the Thunder I was talking about. It's mainly David Stern and the rest of the powers that be.

Ironically. Because Stern is Jewish, and the Spurs were led tonight by the miraculous effort of an Atheist.

[Uriel]

plz no tebow bullshit in here...we all atheist in here

This is a forum about a team based in South Texas. What do you expect? :lol

[Spursfan092120]

Here's what I want to know...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Why+do+Kevin+Durant+and+Russell+Westbrook+wear+ glasses+in+interviews%3F

[ElNono]

No...it's not the Thunder I was talking about. It's mainly David Stern and the rest of the powers that be.

God put Stern there and gave him all that power, right?

God is a sick fuck, tbh

[underdawg]

I have a children's book about a man living inside a whale, others getting condemned for wearing clothes made of two different threads, and an invisible god genociding the world with a flood.

Wait, sorry that IS the bible on my nightstand. Why are we talking about this shit and not the Spurs' win?

I'm sorry if that's all you got out of reading the Bible

[underdawg]

God put Stern there and gave him all that power, right?

God is a sick fuck, tbh

I don't get it - why would you say that?

[Juggity]

Th:lol B:lolbl:lol

[ATX Spur]

I'm sorry if that's all you got out of reading the Bible

Oh I got alot more. Read it cover to cover several times over. Hasn't passed the laugh test since I was little.

You know, the god of Abraham's condoning of slavery, the frequent violent wrath of an Authority Figure you don't unflinchingly agree with, and a primer for hatemongering by too many current-day religious folk on the issue of homosexuality, etc.

Anyways, Go Spurs Go! Great toughness tonight! :flag:

[Venti Quattro]

David R:lolbins:loln

[Venti Quattro]

Austin sucks. Triple H pawns his ass.

Stone Cold > The Rock > Triple H

learn your pecking order.

[ElNono]

I don't get it - why would you say that?

do I have to spell it for you?

[underdawg]

do I have to spell it for you?

please do - I'm always entertained by your theories

[underdawg]

Oh I got alot more. Read it cover to cover several times over. Hasn't passed the laugh test since I was little.

You know, the god of Abraham's condoning of slavery, the frequent violent wrath of an Authority Figure you don't unflinchingly agree with, and a primer for hatemongering by too many current-day religious folk on the issue of homosexuality, etc.

Anyways, Go Spurs Go! Great toughness tonight! :flag:

carry on - you're definitely covering some new ground that's never before been addressed

[ATX Spur]

carry on - you're definitely covering some new ground that's never before been addressed

I've never heard it addressed adequately, have you? I don't have time to carry on with all of god's moral fecklessness in the bible, I'd like to get to sleep sometime tonight. You can address those silly five or six things I mentioned that would be a huge gap for a rational person?

[Capt Bringdown]

Perhaps OKC should blame the loss on the LORD, since it seems to me you're trying to say that the LORD somehow favors the Spurs over OKC?

How exactly is this scripture supposed to pertain to the Spurs? And if it did somehow, what does it say about the LORD who intervenes in a meaningless sports event but allows the innocent to be slaughtered?

[ATX Spur]

So back to the Spurs, they're writing their own Scripture tonight. In the form of an incredible run that hopefully ends with a championship. :lobt2:

[Capt Bringdown]

So back to the Spurs, they're writing their own Scripture tonight. In the form of an incredible run that hopefully ends with a championship. :lobt2:
Damn straight.
Fuck Yo scripture, clown

[Thomas82]

Perhaps OKC should blame the loss on the LORD, since it seems to me you're trying to say that the LORD somehow favors the Spurs over OKC?

How exactly is this scripture supposed to pertain to the Spurs? And if it did somehow, what does it say about the LORD who intervenes in a meaningless sports event but allows the innocent to be slaughtered?


No, that is not at all what I'm trying to say, but since you don't get it, I'll just leave it alone.

[Thomas82]

Damn straight.
Fuck Yo scripture, clown

And with responses like this, it's easy to see why Duncan228 stopped posting.

[Spursfan092120]

Stone Cold > The Rock > Triple H

learn your pecking order.

Good post, son.

[underdawg]

I've never heard it addressed adequately, have you? I don't have time to carry on with all of god's moral fecklessness in the bible, I'd like to get to sleep sometime tonight. You can address those silly five or six things I mentioned that would be a huge gap for a rational person?

absolutely - if you're willing to read the Bible as a whole, you'll begin to understand the cohesion and the uniqueness of the statements of Jesus Christ and the prophets that predicted his life.

There's nothing like the Bible and if you're willing to do the research, you'll find that statement to be true.

[Capt Bringdown]

No, that is not at all what I'm trying to say, but since you don't get it, I'll just leave it alone.

I'll bet I'm not the only one who doesn't get it. Here's your chance to witness how the scripture in your words, "just SCREAMED" the Spurs and Tim Duncan particularly.

[Dunc n Dave]

:rolleyes here we go again... another 20+ page thread of atheists mocking believers intelligence then expecting said believers to "turn the other cheek"

[Capt Bringdown]

:rolleyes here we go again... another 20+ page thread of atheists mocking believers intelligence then expecting said believers to "turn the other cheek"

Jesus wept.

Good thing the LORD is on our side, huh?

[ElNono]

please do - I'm always entertained by your theories

tbh, I'm just as mean to other imaginary guys... santa and all..

[ATX Spur]

:rolleyes here we go again... another 20+ page thread of atheists mocking believers intelligence then expecting said believers to "turn the other cheek"

I'm not an Atheist, I don't expect anyone to turn the other cheek. Rather, I just found it odd to apply Scripture to a current event it has nothing to do with. I don't mock anyone's intelligence. I just wanted to see the correlation other's saw. I didn't think that piece of Scripture illuminated anything I saw in the game tonight. I found it too bizarre.

[underdawg]

tbh, I'm just as mean to other imaginary guys... santa and all..

given some of your beliefs, the easter bunny and santa might be right up your alley :toast

[Gutter92]

tbh if you're gonna quote fiction might as well quote harry potter, imo

[ATX Spur]

absolutely - if you're willing to read the Bible as a whole, you'll begin to understand the cohesion and the uniqueness of the statements of Jesus Christ and the prophets that predicted his life.

There's nothing like the Bible and if you're willing to do the research, you'll find that statement to be true.

As I said in last page, I read the bible as a whole numerous times. "Cohesion" would not be the word I would use to describe it. Rather, I found beautiful stories mixed with implausible stories, and a flawed moral code that's inadequate to our lifetime.

Btw, there's lots of things like the Bible. The Quran, the Epic of Gilgamesh, every book that every society since the beginning of civilization has codified containing god or gods. We just happened to be born in this country where Christianity is a common religion.

These are the statements I find to be true and I've already done the research.

[underdawg]

I'm not an Atheist, I don't expect anyone to turn the other cheek. Rather, I just found it odd to apply Scripture to a current event it has nothing to do with. I don't mock anyone's intelligence. I just wanted to see the correlation other's saw. I didn't think that piece of Scripture illuminated anything I saw in the game tonight. I found it too bizarre.

to be honest, I don't know if I understand how the scripture quoted relates to the Spurs either, but I do know that I'm starting to see more canned responses from people that have made up their minds about the Bible from internet searches and forums instead of reading it for themselves.

The Bible's been around for a very long time and most of the questions you've asked have already been answered - if you havent found them, keep looking because they're there.

[ElNono]

given some of your beliefs, the easter bunny and santa might be right up your alley :toast

at least santa gives gifts to the children instead of cancer :cry

[sananspursfan21]

Cmon lets have some respect. You guys that dont believe should still be respectful. Absolutely nothing false about the Bible but hey, none of us can force it down your throat. And for those who do believe, im with you but dont antagonize. Be a light but reply in a respectful manner, lets not get chippy. These responses are getting crazy

[Juggity]

The Bible's been around for a very long time and most of the questions you've asked have already been answered - if you havent found them, keep looking because they're there.

You should probably answer such questions, tbh. Otherwise people might suspect you haven't looked yourself.

[ElNono]

tbh if you're gonna quote fiction might as well quote harry potter, imo

real talk... there's some good Frodo passages from Lord of the Rings too, imo

[underdawg]

As I said in last page, I read the bible as a whole numerous times. "Cohesion" would not be the word I would use to describe it. Rather, I found beautiful stories mixed with implausible stories, and a flawed moral code that's inadequate to our lifetime.

Btw, there's lots of things like the Bible. The Quran, the Epic of Gilgamesh, every book that every society since the beginning of civilization has codified containing god or gods. We just happened to be born in this country where Christianity is a common religion.

These are the statements I find to be true and I've already done the research.

there's nothing like the Bible in that no other religion makes the statements that Jesus makes.. By you saying that you've done the research tells me that you haven't.

[Capt Bringdown]

Jesus died on the cross so that the Spurs could be successful. His dying words were a curse against the Spurs opponents.
It's in the bible, people!

[ATX Spur]

Cmon lets have some respect. You guys that dont believe should still be respectful. Absolutely nothing false about the Bible but hey, none of us can force it down your throat. And for those who do believe, im with you but dont antagonize. Be a light but reply in a respectful manner, lets not get chippy. These responses are getting crazy

I have alot of respect in my heart, but I have to be incredulous toward anyone who says with a straight face that there's "absolutely nothing false about the Bible."

Jonah lived in a whale? Abraham was really instructed to murder his own son? The universe is really 6000 years old according to biblical genealogy? No mention of the dinosaurs we now know existed before man? God really expected the Jews to have slaves, effectively getting wrong the key moral question of the history of the United States? I mean, where do you want me to stop?

And then, the only response from the bible apologists is, "I won't tell you why those things aren't silly, but you can do research"?

Hard to have respect for that, tbh.

[underdawg]

Jesus died on the cross so that the Spurs could be successful. His dying words were a curse against the Spurs opponents.
It's in the bible, people!

Or just be happy that David Robinson has done as much for the San Antonio community as he has because of his desire to honor the God he believes in - just a thought.

[ATX Spur]

there's nothing like the Bible in that no other religion makes the statements that Jesus makes.. By you saying that you've done the research tells me that you haven't.

The works and life of Jesus appear in the Quran as well, tbh. Have you ever read the Quran? And on what basis does one believe the veracity of one holy book over another?

[ATX Spur]

Or just be happy that David Robinson has done as much for the San Antonio community as he has because of his desire to honor the God he believes in - just a thought.

David is a phenomenal human being who has done amazing things for our community with children and education. He just had a weird reason for doing them when good reasons exist already.

[ATX Spur]

And with responses like this, it's easy to see why Duncan228 stopped posting.

Doesn't 1 John 4:1 say to "test the spirits"? Why would people who disagree with you deter you from your message? You don't know anything you can't defend.

[sananspursfan21]

I have alot of respect in my heart, but I have to be incredulous toward anyone who says with a straight face that there's "absolutely nothing false about the Bible."

Jonah lived in a whale? Abraham was really instructed to murder his own son? The universe is really 6000 years old according to biblical genealogy? No mention of the dinosaurs we now know existed before man? God really expected the Jews to have slaves, effectively getting wrong the key moral question of the history of the United States? I mean, where do you want me to stop?

And then, the only response from the bible apologists is, "I won't tell you why those things aren't silly, but you can do research"?

Hard to have respect for that, tbh.

Well yes some wild stuff happened in the Bible days, and much of it is difficult to believe in reference to Jonah and the whale but the old testament saw some crazy days for sure. I do have answers for you of you would like to personal message me since this is a spurs forum and deep biblical discussions should be held elsewhere. I wont give you the same old "research it yourself" when i have answers for you but im also not going to force you to hear/read it so if you would like, we'll talk, if not: peace brutha man

[underdawg]

I have alot of respect in my heart, but I have to be incredulous toward anyone who says with a straight face that there's "absolutely nothing false about the Bible."

Jonah lived in a whale? Abraham was really instructed to murder his own son? The universe is really 6000 years old according to biblical genealogy? No mention of the dinosaurs we now know existed before man? God really expected the Jews to have slaves, effectively getting wrong the key moral question of the history of the United States? I mean, where do you want me to stop?

And then, the only response from the bible apologists is, "I won't tell you why those things aren't silly, but you can do research"?

Hard to have respect for that, tbh.

let's cover a few of those real quick:
-Jonah living in a whale (or fish) is unbelievable but you're ok with Jesus Christ rising from the dead or even more, God creating the universe?
-Abraham's instruction for sacrificing his son was a demonstration of faith, but mostly to demonstrate how God would sacrifice his only begotten son in Jesus Christ for all of humanity.
-As far as slaves, people are going to have their own opinions but many theologians do not compare Jewish slaves to the slaves that were in America. They were more of servants than slaves, but I can't tell you that I have a great answer either. I do know that Christians led the abolitionist movement in America to free slaves though and this trumped so called Christians that had slaves.
-Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible - are there any other animals not mentioned in the Bible? 6,000 years or 4.3 billion years - you're still left with the same question as to how we got here. You're still left with the basic question of how physical matter came into extistence - in my opinion, science nor logic comes into conflict with the Bible and the Christ that I believe in. Evolution is a theory that has yet to be proven in a macro-evolution basis in a lab - tell me I'm wrong if I am.

[Trainwreck2100]

u82_bqMRDiU

austin's best mic work

[Capt Bringdown]

The LORD loves the Spurs more than the other guys. It says so in the bible.

[ElNono]

where's the David Robinson bible chasing troll when you need him? :lol

[sananspursfan21]

The LORD loves the Spurs more than the other guys. It says so in the bible.

Well, i wouldnt say thaaaaaat. The Lord loves everyone....even David Stern

[underdawg]

The works and life of Jesus appear in the Quran as well, tbh. Have you ever read the Quran? And on what basis does one believe the veracity of one holy book over another?

I'm not even saying that one has a validity over another. Let's look at what the other religions say (copying this from an article written by Dr. Ankerberg):

examine the specific claims of such individuals,
we find none of them claims what Jesus does. In
The Qur’an the Muslim prophet Muhammad states,
“Surely I am no more than a human apostle.”28 In fact,
Muhammad is acknowledged as sinful and asks
forgiveness from God—is even rebuked by God—
several times.29
If Muhammad confessed he was sinful, Jesus
claimed He was sinless. If Muhammad only claimed
to be a prophet of God, Jesus claimed to be God. If
Muhammad was rebuked by God, Jesus was never
rebuked by God; in fact, He said, “I always do what
pleases Him” (John 8:29).
The Buddha simply claimed to be an enlightened
man, one who could show others how to escape the
duality of this world and find eternal release from
suffering in a state of individual nonexistence called
“nirvana.” After his alleged enlightenment, the Buddha
said he realized the importance of maintaining an
attitude of equanimity towards all things because this
attitude helps one to end the cycle of rebirth, attain
permanent release from the human condition and
“enter” nirvana:
Monks, I’m a Brahmana [enlightened being],
one to ask a favor of, ever clean-handed, wearing
my last body…. I am inexorable, bear no love nor
hatred toward anyone…. I have the same feelings
for respectable people as for the low; or moral
persons as for the immoral; for the depraved as for
those who observe the rules of good conduct….
You disciples, do not affirm that the Lord Buddha
reflects thus within himself, “I bring salvation to
every living being.” Subhuti entertain no such
delusive thought! Because in reality there are no
living beings to whom the Lord Buddha can bring
salvation.30
Houston Smith in The Religions of Man comments
about the Buddha,
Notwithstanding his own objectivity toward
himself, there was constant pressure during his
lifetime to turn him into a god. He rebuffed all
these categorically, insisting that he was human
in every respect. He made no attempt to conceal
his temptations and weaknesses, how difficult it
had been to attain enlightenment, how narrow the
margin by which he had won through, how fallible
he still remained.31
If Buddha claimed merely a personal enlightenment
designed to escape human nature, Jesus claimed (in
His own nature) to be the Light of the world. If Buddha
claimed it was wrong to consider him one who brings
salvation to men because men, having no permanent
reality, do not finally exist, Jesus taught that He came
to bring salvation to all men and to dignify their
existence eternally. If the Buddha promised to give
others enlightenment so that they might find nirvana, a
state of personal dissolution in the afterlife, Jesus
promised to give men abundant life and eternal
immortality in heaven. If Buddha had the same
feelings for good and evil, Jesus exalted righteousness
and hated evil.
Confucius said, “As to being a Divine Sage or even
a Good Man, far be it for me to make any such
claim.”32 If Confucius denied that he was divine or even
a good man, Jesus claimed He was divine and morally
perfect.
We can proceed to examine all the world’s major
religions in detail and never find anyone like Jesus.
Not in Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Confucianism,
Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto, Judaism, Zoroasterism,
Islam, or any other religion. Zoroaster only claimed to
be a prophet, “I was ordained by Thee at the first. All
others I look upon with hatred of spirit.”33 Lao-tze and
Guru Nanak sum up the attitude, at one time or
another, of all the great religious founders when they
confessed their humanity and even their ignorance.
For example, Lao-tze the founder of Taoism said, “I
alone appear empty. Ignorant am I, O so ignorant! I
am dull!… I alone am confused, so confused!”34 Even
in the latter part of his life, Guru Nanak, the founder of
Sikhism still struggled to achieve enlightenment and
lamented over his own spiritual darkness, “I have
become perplexed in my search. In the darkness I find
no way. Devoted to pride, I weep in sorrow…. How
shall deliverance be obtained?”35
In The World’s Living Religions, Professor of the
History of Religions, Robert Hume comments that
there are three features of Christian faith that “cannot
be paralleled anywhere among the religions of the
world.”36 These include the character of God as a
loving heavenly Father, the character of the founder of
Christianity as the Son of God, and the work of the
Holy Spirit. Further,
All of the nine founders of religion, with the
exception of Jesus Christ, are reported in their
respective sacred scriptures as having passed
through a preliminary period of uncertainty, or of
searching for religious light…. All the founders of
the non-Christian religions evinced inconsistencies
in their personal character; some of them
altered their practical policies under change of
circumstances. Jesus Christ alone is reported as
having had a consistent God-consciousness, a
consistent character himself, and a consistent
program for his religion.37
If the claims of men mean anything, or have any
implications, and, certainly they must, whether true or
false, then no one else in history ever claimed and did
what Jesus did.
Again, Jesus is absolutely unique in the claims He
makes for Himself. He says, “I am the light of the
world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness,
but will have the light of life” (John 8:12). How
many other men have ever said that? Jesus said, “I
am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except through me” (John 14:6). How many
other men have ever said that? As we saw, Jesus even
claimed that 1500 years before His birth, Moses wrote
about Him and further, that the entire Old Testament
bore witness to Him (John 6:46-47; Luke 24:27, 44).

[underdawg]

where's the David Robinson bible chasing troll when you need him? :lol

yep, cause donating millions of your money to help kids is boring

[ATX Spur]

let's cover a few of those real quick:
-Jonah living in a whale (or fish) is unbelievable but you're ok with Jesus Christ rising from the dead or even more, God creating the universe?
-Abraham's instruction for sacrificing his son was a demonstration of faith, but mostly to demonstrate how God would sacrifice his only begotten son in Jesus Christ for all of humanity.
-As far as slaves, people are going to have their own opinions but many theologians do not compare Jewish slaves to the slaves that were in America. They were more of servants than slaves, but I can't tell you that I have a great answer either. I do know that Christians led the abolitionist movement in America to free slaves though and this trumped so called Christians that had slaves.
-Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible - are there any other animals not mentioned in the Bible? 6,000 years or 4.3 billion years - you're still left with the same question as to how we got here. You're still left with the basic question of how physical matter came into extistence - in my opinion, science nor logic comes into conflict with the Bible and the Christ that I believe in. Evolution is a theory that has yet to be proven in a macro-evolution basis in a lab - tell me I'm wrong if I am.

1) Jonah in the whale defies believability, but so does Christ rising from the dead. I don't believe things that are supposed to have happened 60 generations before I was born and defy biological sense just because I read it in a book.

2) So I can kill my son (or try to) if I can get elders to one day put the story in a book about my faith and it won't be considered attempted murder? Doesn't sound like a morality I'd like to prescribe to.

3) Anyone who thinks slavery is bad would expect the Bible as the key moral document of how to live our lives to condemn owning a person and using them as a servant or construction implement. Too morally bankrupt for my taste.

4) Dinosaurs aren't mentioned, but they're not just a species of animal the Bible forgets to enumerate. They were millions of species that dominated the planet for millions of years. Isn't it easier to think that the Bible was simply just written by men who had no knowledge that dinosaurs existed before their time?

5) So in response to the question of how did matter originate and why are we here, why would one choose a set of unbelievable stories he or she couldn't possibly know to be true? But rather think that every civilization has created god or gods to explain their origins, build moral codes, oppress others by claiming an inside track to religious truth, etc, so that we won't feel so alone or to believe that some god will save us from wrongdoing?

[ElNono]

yep, cause donating millions of your money to help kids is boring

that's not exclusive to religious people... nice strawman though...

[Malice]

oh for fuck sake. Here we go...

[ATX Spur]

Again, Jesus is absolutely unique in the claims He
makes for Himself. He says, “I am the light of the
world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness,
but will have the light of life” (John 8:12). How
many other men have ever said that? Jesus said, “I
am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except through me” (John 14:6). How many
other men have ever said that? As we saw, Jesus even
claimed that 1500 years before His birth, Moses wrote
about Him and further, that the entire Old Testament
bore witness to Him (John 6:46-47; Luke 24:27, 44).

Wait, wait. Jesus is God because he made unique claims? WHAT?

[ATX Spur]

Anyways. If Kori or timvp want to move this as it's now way off topic, that's cool. I just came to celebrate the Spurs big win and got derailed by a weird Scripture passage, wondering why it made someone think of the Spurs tonight?

Apologies.

Still excited about the win! :flag:

[underdawg]

that's not exclusive to religious people... nice strawman though...

had nothing to do with a logical argument - just a fact that David's donated a lot of money to help kids in san antonio

[underdawg]

Wait, wait. Jesus is God because he made unique claims? WHAT?

pretty much - you asked to comare Jesus to other religions and that's a major distinction; if the other religious icons were claiming to be God, wouldn't they have said so?

[sananspursfan21]

Am i going to have to separate you two?

[Capt Bringdown]

Perfect Satanic Verse that SCREAMS the Spurs (from the book of Satan 1:1-4)

In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my
voice that you may hear. To the East and to the West
I beckon. To the North and to the South I show a sign
proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong!

arid wilderness of steel and stone - aka OKC
To the East and to the West I beckon - 19 game winning streak, bitches. You wanna piece?
Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong - Riverwalk parades and playoff shares, in yo face

HAIL SATAN

[ATX Spur]

pretty much - you asked to comare Jesus to other religions and that's a major distinction; if the other religious icons were claiming to be God, wouldn't they have said so?

What does it matter who claims to be God? My former neighbor was a hippie who frequently stated she wasn't a christian because she thought she WAS God. Did she just earn equal footing with Jesus?

[ATX Spur]

Am i going to have to separate you two?

I don't think so. I think we're having a pretty civil conversation.

[100%duncan]

Stone Cold > The Rock > Triple H

learn your pecking order.

Austin is a bitch tit like you. DX just kicked his ass from time to time whenever he did something bitchy.

[Mikesatx]

I thanked God for the Spurs win tonight!! Faith is a personal journey. Some put a great deal of emphasis on the bible and others just try and live by the fundamental principals it stresses. Regardless of where you are with your faith probably not the appropriate place to discuss.

[sananspursfan21]

I don't think so. I think we're having a pretty civil conversation.

Just a practicing moderator is all

[ElNono]

had nothing to do with a logical argument - just a fact that David's donated a lot of money to help kids in san antonio

Manu gives up his time and money for children too, and he doesn't believe in god... David is a great human being, and I have a hard time thinking he would stop being such a great human being if he were not religious... I think it's great religion works for Dave... Star Trek works for other people too...

[underdawg]

1) Jonah in the whale defies believability, but so does Christ rising from the dead. I don't believe things that are supposed to have happened 60 generations before I was born and defy biological sense just because I read it in a book.
Yet you're still here
2) So I can kill my son (or try to) if I can get elders to one day put the story in a book about my faith and it won't be considered attempted murder? Doesn't sound like a morality I'd like to prescribe to.
You're missing the point - it has nothing to do with you or Abraham for that matter (other than his faith)
3) Anyone who thinks slavery is bad would expect the Bible as the key moral document of how to live our lives to condemn owning a person and using them as a servant or construction implement. Too morally bankrupt for my taste.
maybe you don't know the whole story
4) Dinosaurs aren't mentioned, but they're not just a species of animal the Bible forgets to enumerate. They were millions of species that dominated the planet for millions of years. Isn't it easier to think that the Bible was simply just written by men who had no knowledge that dinosaurs existed before their time?
do you have a better book?
5) So in response to the question of how did matter originate and why are we here, why would one choose a set of unbelievable stories he or she couldn't possibly know to be true? But rather think that every civilization has created god or gods to explain their origins, build moral codes, oppress others by claiming an inside track to religious truth, etc, so that we won't feel so alone or to believe that some god will save us from wrongdoing?
Search the truth and the truth will set you free and if you believe that the teachings of Christ have caused harm to others, that means you haven't read them or you don't understand them.

Understand this - Christianity is unique in this simple fact: Christians are saved by grace alone and this has nothing to do with the human's own merit, worth or self determination. This alone separates Christianity from all other religions because it is not a religion based on one's abitlity or works, but on the power of our creator. Think hard about what that means - it means that I'm no better than anyone else in this world. If you're looking for equality - that's it.

[ElNono]

so, if you don't agree/believe, you don't understand? is that it?

[underdawg]

Manu gives up his time and money for children too, and he doesn't believe in god... David is a great human being, and I have a hard time thinking he would stop being such a great human being if he were not religious... I think it's great religion works for Dave... Star Trek works for other people too...

Send him a letter and I think he would tell you different. I'm not going to compare Manu's good deeds with the Dave's good deeds. All I know is that Dave says that his good deeds come from his desire to honor God and because of that San Antonio has benefitted.

7 of the top 10 charities in the US are Christian based - take from that what you will, but most of the volunteers I know are Christian and that's because it's a core of what we believe. Doesn't mean other people can't volunteer, but in most cases they don't.

[underdawg]

so, if you don't agree/believe, you don't understand? is that it?

was I unclear? - sorry if I was. I don't understand your question

[ATX Spur]

Search the truth and the truth will set you free and if you believe that the teachings of Christ have caused harm to others, that means you haven't read them or you don't understand them.

Understand this - Christianity is unique in this simple fact: Christians are saved by grace alone and this has nothing to do with the human's own merit, worth or self determination. This alone separates Christianity from all other religions because it is not a religion based on one's abitlity or works, but on the power of our creator. Think hard about what that means - it means that I'm no better than anyone else in this world. If you're looking for equality - that's it.

I've read the teachings of Christ, I just don't believe they come from any god. You need to stop telling me I don't understand them. I gave you a pass on it before, but I'm alot smarter than you think. I've already "thought hard" about it, I don't need you to tell me to do so.

What kind of argument is simply restating the claim of Christianity (which you already know I don't believe) and saying think harder about it?

[underdawg]

I've read the teachings of Christ, I just don't believe they come from any god. You need to stop telling me I don't understand them. I gave you a pass on it before, but I'm alot smarter than you think. I've already "thought hard" about it, I don't need you to tell me to do so.

What kind of argument is simply restating the claim of Christianity (which you already know I don't believe) and saying think harder about it?

why don't you believe they come from God? I have no idea of your intelligence, but I can tell you that I'm pretty much a dumb ole' country boy if that helps.

If you thought I was telling you to do something, then I apologize - religion or no religion is a freedom to all Americans and I honestly don't ever want to impose on that right.

[ElNono]

Send him a letter and I think he would tell you different.

Why would he lie? :lol Would a Christian lie? :lol

I have 2000x better things to talk with Manu about than imaginary people. As a matter of fact, when we do get together and chat, religion is the last thing in my mind.


7 of the top 10 charities in the US are Christian based - take from that what you will, but most of the volunteers I know are Christian and that's because it's a core of what we believe. Doesn't mean other people can't volunteer, but in most cases they don't.

Which matches up with 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians... some people don't need a god/santa/capt kirk to realize certain things contribute to the well being of society...

[underdawg]

http://gatewaypeople.com/sermons/139050

And if you really want to know about how Christianity has affected America, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - watch the above video.

[ATX Spur]

why don't you believe they come from God? I have no idea of your intelligence, but I can tell you that I'm pretty much a dumb ole' country boy if that helps.

If you thought I was telling you to do something, then I apologize - religion or no religion is a freedom to all Americans and I honestly don't ever want to impose on that right.

Fair enough. I don't believe the teachings of Christ came from any god, because it's exponentially more likely Jesus was just a man who people wrote exaggerated books about than he was the savior of mankind. How could you know that what's written in the books were actually said by him and are true? One could take it on faith, but if that's one's method, you could believe countless other claims that have nothing to do with Jesus and say you have faith.

[underdawg]

Why would he lie? :lol Would a Christian lie? :lol

I have 2000x better things to talk with Manu about than imaginary people. As a matter of fact, when we do get together and chat, religion is the last thing in my mind.



Which matches up with 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians... some people don't need a god/santa/capt kirk to realize certain things contribute to the well being of society...

that's your choice Nono - wasn't talking about a letter to Manu though (I'm pretty certain Dave would love to talk to you about how God's working in his life though).

Where are you gettting 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians? I thought it was much lower than that - either way I'd hope you would understand that what I'm saying is that saying you're a Christian doesn't make you a better person, but having Christ in you empowers you to understand what selfless love is and helps you to sacrifice your own needs for the good of others. I know that sounds like something from a brochure, but in my almost 40 years of experience, I understand that it is absulutely contrary to our nature. Nono - maybe you know a ton of people that are more than willing to sacrifice their own needs for the good of others, but I don't and I live in Texas - a pretty dang friendly state. I believe that our core need as a sinful man is to satisfy ourselves - I see that every day. Putting the needs of others before our own is pretty uncommon.

[underdawg]

Fair enough. I don't believe the teachings of Christ came from any god, because it's exponentially more likely Jesus was just a man who people wrote exaggerated books about than he was the savior of mankind. How could you know that what's written in the books were actually said by him and are true? One could take it on faith, but if that's one's method, you could believe countless other claims that have nothing to do with Jesus and say you have faith.

Faith is the biggest part of believing in Christ and truly the only way that the Holy Spirit will help you to understand and remember God's word, but it's not like it's a blind faith either. Christ is continually prophesized in the Old Testament (from Dr. Ankerberg's article):

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the prophesied
Messiah predicted centuries in advance in the
Old Testament.
It is one thing to wish to have truth on our side,
and another to wish sincerely to be on the side of
truth.—Richard Whately
The Hebrew Scriptures are unique among those of
the world’s religions in that they contain scores of
prophecies about a predicted future Messiah. These
prophecies extend over a period of 1,000 years and
many are given in specific detail. The final prophecy
was given 400 years before Christ was ever born. In
our book, The Case for Jesus the Messiah, we
discuss a dozen of these prophecies in detail, proving
that only Jesus Christ fulfills them, and therefore, that
only He is the predicted Jewish Messiah22 (cf., John
5:46). For example, in the anguished imagery of King
David’s prayers, Psalm 22 accurately describes a
crucifixion—yet this description is given hundreds of
years before the method of execution by crucifixion
was devised. No other Psalm fits the description of
Christ’s crucifixion better than Psalm 22, explaining
why it is the most frequently quoted Psalm by New
Testament writers. Yet this Psalm was written 1000
years before Jesus was born. Jesus Himself quoted
the first verse of this Psalm while on the cross.
Whatever one thinks of this Psalm, no one can deny
that it describes what happened to Jesus on the cross
an entire millennium later: “…they have pierced my
hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people
stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments
among them and cast lots for my clothing” (Psalm22:16-18; cf. Matthew 27:35).
In Isaiah 9:6-7, the prophecy of the coming Messiah
concerns a child to be born who will also be God and
who will have an everlasting kingdom. In the Gospels,
Jesus claimed that He was that incarnate God and
that He would have an everlasting kingdom (Matthew
16:28; 26:64; Luke 22:30; John 6:38-42, 62; 8:42;
10:30, 36-38; 18:36; cf., 2 Peter 1:11).
In Isaiah 53:4-12, the Messiah is prophesied to be
crushed and pierced for our transgressions; that God
will lay upon Him the iniquity of all mankind. In the
gospels, Jesus also claims to fulfill this prophecy
(Matthew 20:28; cf. 53:12). In fact, Jesus repeatedly
claimed He was the predicted Messiah by continually
claiming He was fulfilling Old Testament prophecies:
“You diligently study the Scriptures because you think
that by them you possess eternal life. These are the
Scriptures that testify about me” (John 5:39; see also
Matthew 26:24, 54, 56; Luke 24:25-27, 44).
In Micah 5:2, the Messiah is said to be eternal, the
ruler over Israel and that He will be born in a very
specific location, Bethlehem Ephrathah. No one
denies that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem
Ephrathah and none can logically deny that He
claimed He was Israel’s King and the eternal one
(John 5:18; 8:58; Mark 14:60-63).
In Daniel 9:24-27, written 500 years before Christ is
born, the Messiah is prophesied to be killed at the
exact time of Christ’s death.23
In Zechariah 12:10, also written 500 years before
Christ, it is prophesied that Jehovah Himself will be
pierced by the inhabitants of Jerusalem who will
mourn over Him. The Hebrew word means pierced as
with a spear, just as Jesus was pierced during His
crucifixion (John 19:32,35).
If we look at the list of prophecies we discuss in our
book, The Case for Jesus the Messiah, we see that
Jesus Christ fulfilled all of them. Remember, the
following are predictions made hundreds of years
before He was even born:
Genesis 3:15—Jesus defeated Satan but was
wounded during the crucifixion.
Genesis 12, 17, 22—He was the literal descendant
of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in whom all the
world was blessed.
Deuteronomy 18—He was the “prophet like
Moses.”
Psalm 22—He was mocked, insulted and
crucified. His garments were gambled for and His
bones were not broken.
Psalm 110—He was David’s Lord.
Isaiah 53—He was perfectly innocent and
without sin, yet He atoned for the sin of the world.
He was resurrected from the dead.
Jeremiah 23—Because He was God and
“justified many,” His proper name is “Jehovah our
Righteousness.”
Daniel 9—He arrived at the specific time given
by the prophecy, 483 years after Artaxerxes’
decree to rebuild Jerusalem.
Micah 5—He was eternal, yet He was born in
Bethlehem.
Zechariah 9—He was the King of Israel who
brought salvation; He entered Jerusalem riding on
a donkey.
Zechariah 12—He was Jehovah, He was
pierced.
Malachi 3—John the Baptist prepared the way
for Him as He suddenly came to His temple.
Had we space, there are dozens of other prophecies
we could discuss that are just as specific.
(1) He would be born of a virgin (Isa. 7:14; see Mt.
1:23).
(2) He would live in Nazareth of Galilee (Isa. 9:1-2;
see Mt. 2:23; 4:15).
(3) He would occasion the massacre of Bethlehem’s
children (Jer. 31:15; see Mt. 2:18).
(4) His mission would include the Gentiles (Isa. 42:1-
3, 6; see Mt. 12:18-21).
(5) His ministry would include physical relief (Isa.
61:1-2; see Lk. 4:16-21).
(6) He would be the Shepherd struck with the sword,
resulting in the sheep being scattered (Zech. 13:7;
see Mt. 26:31, 56; Mk. 14:27, 49-50).
(7) He would be betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of
silver (Zech. 11:12-13; see Mt. 27:9-10).
(8) He would be given vinegar and gall to drink (Ps.
69:21; see Mt. 27:34).
(9) He would be hated without a cause (Ps. 69:4; Isa.
49:7; Jn. 7:48; Jn. 15:25).
(10) He would be rejected by the rulers (Ps. 118:22;
Mt. 21:42; Jn. 7:48).
Who is the only Person who has fulfilled all of these
prophecies—and many more?24 Only Jesus Christ.
There is no way to avoid this fact. Scholars Delitzsch
and Gloag have rightly stated:
So far as we can determine, these prophecies
refer to the Messiah only, and cannot be predicated
of another. The ancient Jews admit the
Messianic character of most of them; although
the modern Jews, in consequence of their controversy
with the Christians, have attempted to
explain them away by applications which must
appear to every candid reader to be unnatural...
these and other predictions have received their
accomplishment in Jesus of Nazareth,... thecombination of prophecies is sufficient to prove
that Jesus is the Messiah;...25
In fact, as we show in our book, the calculations of
mathematical probability reveal these prophecies
could only have been fulfilled in the manner they were
through the power and omniscience of a sovereign
God. The odds of any one man fulfilling just 48 of
them are 1 in 10157—infinitely beyond the limits of
probability.26
Remember, in John 4:25-26 and Mark 14:61-64,
Jesus Himself clearly claimed He was the prophesied
Messiah. In order to disprove this claim, one only
needs to find a single prophecy (out of scores in the
Old Testament) that proves Jesus was wrong. Because
no one has yet done this and because Jesus
filled all of the prophecies relating to His incarnation,
and because He resurrected from the dead, no one
can logically deny that He was and is the prophesied
Jewish Messiah.

[ATX Spur]

underdawg I understand your argument, it's just unfit for me because it's too circular.

You believe in Christ because you have faith. The Holy Spirit helps you have faith. It assumes you believe in a Holy Spirit.

Jesus is God because He is foretold in the Old Testament. The Old Testament tells you about God. You have to already assume the Old Testament is going to tell you religious truth.

What kind of Christ dies for the world, then disappears for two millenia of human and natural suffering, leaving no evidence that doesn't require faith? What is he doing? Watching babies born hungry and then die? Watching earthquakes swallow up thousands of people? Why would you believe in a god who is so clearly not GOOD?

[underdawg]

underdawg I understand your argument, it's just unfit for me because it's too circular.

You believe in Christ because you have faith. The Holy Spirit helps you have faith. It assumes you believe in a Holy Spirit.

Jesus is God because He is foretold in the Old Testament. The Old Testament tells you about God. You have to already assume the Old Testament is going to tell you religious truth.

What kind of Christ dies for the world, then disappears for two centuries of human and natural suffering, leaving no evidence that doesn't require faith? What is he doing? Watching babies born hungry and then die? Watching earthquakes swallow up thousands of people? Why would you believe in a god who is so clearly not GOOD?

Christ's evidence is in his followers (as imperfect as we are) - we are his testimony unto his creation. Life is tough and there are many unanswered questions, but Christ is good and although you see hunger and catostrophe, there is healing and joy in many Christians throughout the world, regardless of our state or circumstance and that includes all of the poor, hungry, and stricken people. Christ has never disappeared or turned his back on those in need - that said, there are plenty that suffer and every man is given unto death, but to say that we can judge our creator is not only bold but ignorant (obviously this is always the case) of the truth.

[ElNono]

Where are you gettting 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians? I thought it was much lower than that

Christianity is the largest and most popular religion in the United States, with around 77% of those polled identifying themselves as Christian, as of 2009.[1][2][3] This is down from 86% in 1990, and slightly lower than 78.6% in 2001.[4]

[ATX Spur]

Christ's evidence is in his followers (as imperfect as we are) - we are his testimony unto his creation. Life is tough and there are many unanswered questions, but Christ is good and although you see hunger and catostrophe, there is healing and joy in many Christians throughout the world, regardless of our state or circumstance and that includes all of the poor, hungry, and stricken people. Christ has never disappeared or turned his back on those in need - that said, there are plenty that suffer and every man is given unto death, but to say that we can judge our creator is not only bold but ignorant (obviously this is always the case) of the truth.

Christ's evidence is in his followers? So because a large group of people believe something it's true?

Christ is good although you see hunger and catastrophe? So he's good, but he's not powerful enough to stop it? Or he can stop it, he just doesn't want to becuase "life is tough"?

Christ has never turned his back on those in need? So no suffering person has ever not been given relief even if they prayed for it?

"We don't question our creator because that would be 'bold and ignorant'" assumes that he exists in the first place.

Sorry, these are some of the least satisfying answers about religion I've heard in a while.