what's okc's adjustment and what do you think pop's adjustment to that will be?

[td4mvp3]

they shot more threes and had more ft, i guess the question becomes how to rebound better?

[Holt's Cat]

How to stop the layup drill - they will likely ease up on defending the perimeter in Game 2.

[justinandimcool]

Thunder will ease up on going after the passing lanes I think. It got them a shitload of steals in the first half but they expended so much energy getting their hands up on every play that their defense became absolute crap in the second half. Though I hope they DON'T make this adjustment and it ends up being a repeat of game 2.

If they're smart they'll run more pnr, especially with Harden. Tonight their offense was putrid. I expected a lot of jumpshots and for Kawhi to give them trouble but they just got nothing going in the 4th quarter due to going iso iso iso. It's what we expected but they were just too predictable down the stretch it was hilarious.

An obvious adjustment is playing Ibaka in the 4th.


Pop:
slow it down, limit turnovers.

close out better on Fisher.

call for more sets that make Green a playmaker. when the Spurs only have one playmaker on the court the Thunder feasted and got steal after steal. we can't have Manu playing 48 minutes so Danny needs an intensified role

more small ball? Bonner has been useless, and frankly so has Diaw though he was due for a bad game.

[BanditHiro]

How to stop the layup drill - they will likely ease up on defending the perimeter in Game 2.

This and Ibaka instead of Perk in the 4th...

It's extremely important the Spurs make their open 3's because they are going to be there.

[GSH]

I think the Thunder's adjustment will be to go for something that looks a little more natural.

http://www.fly-fishing-discounters.com/images/mayflywulffadamsD022.jpg

[Drz]

I don't think they'll adjust, I think they'll play the same style. To beat the Spurs, most teams would want to close off the paint and force the Spurs to shoot 3s, since there's more variability in that and to beat a better team, you want them to take high variance shots. But I think the Thunder (correctly) see themselves as near equal to the Spurs, and they'll go for a more balanced defense.

I guess you could say they'll make the adjustment of doing a better job at keeping the Spurs out of the paint, but I think they'll approach it the same way.

[therealtruth]

This and Ibaka instead of Perk in the 4th...

It's extremely important the Spurs make their open 3's because they are going to be there.

Ibaka was +9. I guess Scott Brooks trusts Perk more but I think Ibaka was more disruptive to our offense.

[Obstructed_View]

It's a little late to change what they are. They win with their talent and athletecism. The Spurs took that away. The only adjustment is to hope more of your shots go in, because those looks are about as good as OKC could hope for.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Ibaka was +9. I guess Scott Brooks trusts Perk more but I think Ibaka was more disruptive to our offense.

He' only disruyptive when there's two bigs and he can come off the weak side. He also isn't much of a post defender, so Tim would just back him down.

[shyne]

Hack a splitter

[wut]

First off, Manu is just about to take over, and there are no adjustments for that. Secondly Thunder did a solid job on Parker by putting long arms guarding him at the key and the paint...this is a must for the Thunder, he was a turnover machine when they did this. Third, you bank on the fact that you wont get the same refs and get in foul trouble on your bigs. Fourth, I agree with a previous post, if you're the Thunder you bring more pnr on their offense to make Spurs work harder on defense.

In other words, if you're the Thunder you DON'T really make adjustments, you go with the same gameplan (let's be honest, it was a good gameplan) and hope Manu doesn't take over again.....but good luck, like I said at the start, there are no adjustments for Ginobili.

[Fabbs]

Splitter-Duncan at some point in time in the series i hope.

[joeSpurs]

What will Splitter-Duncan accomplish for the Spurs?
Are we trying to overpower them? i don't think so. Splitter-Duncan will only clog the lanes for layup drills ... Remember, Tony, Ginobli need the lane for layups, because of they quick first steps.
The Thunders win, when Durant, Westbrook and Harden shoot a lot. I expect more shots for those guys. However, they can't win with Westbrook and Harden shooting under 35 %.
I was glad Pop was able to limit Durant shots in the 4th quarter. I think we will see more and more of this. Let other guys beat us.

Splitter-Duncan at some point in time in the series i hope.

[Fabbs]

What will Splitter-Duncan accomplish for the Spurs?
Are we trying to overpower them? i don't think so. Splitter-Duncan will only clog the lanes for layup drills ... Remember, Tony, Ginobli need the lane for layups, because of they quick first steps.
I don't foresee OKC allowing Parker and GNob lane layups for the entire series.

Splitter-Duncan 2012 has proven to not be lane clogging.
Both can pop up to high post, both are excellent passers.
Both are excellent p and r men.

[spursfan1000]

Okay. (in pops. Voice)

[urunobili]

Hack a Splitter | more Blair

[temujin]

Against LA, OKC just played the same gameplan over and over, essentially trying to cut out Bynum and Gasol from the lanes and offensive boards.
And let Bryant do the damage to the Lakers late in the 4th.
It worked very well in G2, G4 and G5. In G1 none of the Lakers came to play.

They'll have to come up with something new here, but I am not sure whether Brooks is creative enough.

[benstanfield]

I think the Thunder have to go away from small ball. It worked for them offensively I guess, but Durant cannot defend the rim at 4, Perk can't defend the rim at 5, and if they decide to put Ibaka at 5 Duncan will post him up all day. Ibaka not playing in the fourth is a direct result of Perk limiting Tim, which Brooks knows Ibaka couldn't do as effectively.

Small ball is just ineffective against us for the most part. With Jax/Kawhi at 4 we can score with their best offensive unit while maintaining solid defense. The Thunder can only win this series playing big.

[thunderfan]

Ohhh...maybe consider actually playing the NBAs best shot blocker when the other team is performing layup drills?

[thunderfan]

I think you gotta stick with perk/Ibaka combo in 4th

[Mugen]

I think you gotta stick with perk/Ibaka combo in 4th

Agreed. It looks like a traditional lineup is the Thunder's best chance in this series.

Smallball with Perk/Ibaka at the 5 just leaves way too many driving lanes. I really think Pop hopes that Brooks' goes with the small lineup.

A Perk/Serge combo does leave less footspeed on the perimeter rotations and the Spurs were able to get open 3s against that lineup. They just weren't knocking them down. But OKC will probably prefer the 3s than the uncontested layups.

[Matty2Cool]

Hack a splitter

lol shhh

[dbestpro]

It seems like Durant and Westbrook tried to make it personal. Doing so caused a lot of forced shots that ultimately was their demise. I look for them to try to get more teammates involved.

[Nathan Explosion]

Ohhh...maybe consider actually playing the NBAs best shot blocker when the other team is performing layup drills?

Doesn't help if Ibaka is the only big out there. He's not the best shot blocker in the league, only the best weakside shot blocker in the league. See, if he's the only big, Duncan will abuse him. If he rotates to Parker or Gino on the drive, both will hit Duncan for an uncontested layup.

Ibaka needs Perkins alongside him or the layup drill will continue, just a different player putting the ball in the hole.

[T Park]

Splitter and Duncan isn't happening as long as they stay small, and no for the love of god no Blair...

[itzsoweezee]

More Ibaka. They should try to make Duncan beat them.

[tesseractive]

Hack a splitter

He has good form, he just has the yips. Honestly, giving him a few possessions in a row like that to shoot them has a fair chance of getting him back on track.

It's the guys who just plain can't shoot that intentional fouling works best with.

[spurraider21]

If ibaka is their lone big in the 4th Duncan will have a feast. Ibaka doesn't have the strength perk does when it comes to battling in the paint

[024]

okc probably won't play hack a splitter but the thunder will definitely start fouling splitter hard whenever he catches the ball and slides into a good position down low. splitter is going to have to earn his points at the free throw line.

sefolosha will probably receive much more alone time with ginobili.

the thunder also need to replace perkins with ibaka in the fourth. perkins was pretty useless out there and brought no offense, rebounding, or shot blocking. at least ibaka brings some jump shooting, decent rebounding, and exceptional shot blocking. the spurs will then count on duncan to try to out muscle ibaka but right now they both currently weigh about the same (240 pounds) and ibaka has long arms to bother duncan's shots.

[Obstructed_View]

It seems like Durant and Westbrook tried to make it personal. Doing so caused a lot of forced shots that ultimately was their demise. I look for them to try to get more teammates involved.

It's not really personal, it's just your textbook run-around-and-set-screens-while-we-try-to-get-the-ball-to-Kevin-unless-Russell-decides-to-shoot-and-then-we-give-it-to-James-and-let-him-do-whatever-he-wants-when-he's-on-the-floor style offense.

[joeSpurs]

Durant, Harden and Westbrook are volume shooters. That's how OKC rolls. The other guys don't even care to shoot (except Fisher from time to time)... OKC's Problem is ... You can't jumpshoot yourself pass good teams. Westbook has been shooting 35% in the first two rounds of the playoffs. On any other team, he would have been benched ...


It's not really personal, it's just your textbook run-around-and-set-screens-while-we-try-to-get-the-ball-to-Kevin-unless-Russell-decides-to-shoot-and-then-we-give-it-to-James-and-let-him-do-whatever-he-wants-when-he's-on-the-floor style offense.

[timtonymanurich]

It's not really personal, it's just your textbook run-around-and-set-screens-while-we-try-to-get-the-ball-to-Kevin-unless-Russell-decides-to-shoot-and-then-we-give-it-to-James-and-let-him-do-whatever-he-wants-when-he's-on-the-floor style offense.

^^^

TIMELESS. :toast

:lmao:lmao:lmao

I thought it was AWESOME for the Spurs that D-Fish rode the pine after his last (and ONLY) missed shot.

I don't know why Brooks pulled him, he's a Spur-killer and a KING-SIZE PAIN-IN-THE-ASS. ALWAYS where he should/shouldn't be, depending on if he's on your team or against your team.

WestBrick was a FAIL in the Q4. I loved it. They defended well and got in our passing lanes through the first 3Q's, but either got tired due to lack of depth on the Thunders bench, Durant was hoping Harden & WestBrick were going to bail the Thunder out, or ANY combination of the three.

Things that will very likely change:

Spurs - Green will make - SOMETHING in G2 He's been playing RAD and was due for a bad game. I'd rather it be in G1 than G4,5*,6*,7* (*If necessary)

Splitter won't AIR-BALL another FT. (GAWSH, are you FRRRIGGIN KIDDING ME?)

Amy (Derek) Fisher won't shoot 5-6 3/4 from 3-land.

Tony will likely go off like he did in the 2nd meeting of these two teams. Maybe not 42, but Parker will do better. It may not be needed, but Parker ALWAYS bounces back.

Spurs go up 2-0 on Wednesday.

:ihit:ihit

[therealtruth]

Splitter and Duncan isn't happening as long as they stay small, and no for the love of god no Blair...

I wish we had practiced that lineup more so we could take advantage of height mismatches when we go big.

[therealtruth]

He has good form, he just has the yips. Honestly, giving him a few possessions in a row like that to shoot them has a fair chance of getting him back on track.

It's the guys who just plain can't shoot that intentional fouling works best with.

It always makes sense to hack a guy who's getting a layup especially if they're not a good free throw shooter. I like the fact that Splitter can really take advantage of Collision on the block. I think he could have posted him a few times.

[angelbelow]

I thought Harden nailed it on the head when he said that the Thunder have to focus on stopping penetration.

In the first half, whether it be Thunder defense or some sort of rust, we played like shit and couldn't really penetrate the way we normally do.

Thunder have to continue to make penetration difficult while closing out on our shooters. Easier said than done because I think they gassed employing this strategy.

The Spurs just need to limit their turnovers because those fast break points really hurt our game flow. But I think its safe to say that with our 2nd half performance and with game 1 under our belt, the rust should have mostly deteriorated.

[LakerLanny]

OKC's adjustment will be Kenny Mauer and/or Scott Foster.

[sexinthatsx]

The only way Thunder will be able to win is if they stop playing small ball and have either Ibaka or Perkins dominate on the low-post (which most likely won't happen). Until then, OKC is just a fluke shooting team with both Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook throwing up contested mid-range jumpshots and 3's during crunch time situations.

What we all could tell from game 1 is that Westbrook was clearly annoyed when his jumpshots weren't falling... no big surprise there. He then proceeds to force in the paint by trying too hard and blows the layup, even missed dunks time after time.

What happens when the jump shots stop going in OKC?!

[Spurs Brazil]

Sean talks about adjustments for game 2

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/120528_scatter

[Spurs Brazil]

Among them was head coach Scott Brooks admitting to making a mistake by keeping forward Serge Ibaka, the runner-up in the NBA Defensive Player of the Year balloting, on the bench in the fourth quarter. That's when the Spurs scored 39 points and shot 12 of 16, after the Thunder held San Antonio to just 16 points in the third.

Brooks said he'll beat himself up over not putting his defensive ace back in the game, while explaining how sidelining Ibaka seemed the right idea at the time. After all, Brooks said, keeping Ibaka out and going with a smaller lineup worked in the previous playoff series against the defending champion Mavericks and the Lakers.

''I think every decision you make, if it doesn't work out, you say, 'Why did you do that?''' Brooks said. ''And I'm with you on that. I wish I would've played Serge last night.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/thunder-calm-blowing-game-1-211957137--nba.html;_ylt=Aj3WM5AtYyH6MZCDW5lZ7PO8vLYF

[GSH]

I thought Harden nailed it on the head when he said that the Thunder have to focus on stopping penetration.




If they do, the next game Harden will be talking about how they have to close out better on the 3-point shooters.

[Holt's Cat]

Pick your poison kiddos.

[therealtruth]

Both Durant and Westbrook missed dunks against us. I wonder how often that happens.

[GSH]

Both Durant and Westbrook missed dunks against us. I wonder how often that happens.


As often as someone defends well, and forces them to take off from too far out.

[Holt's Cat]

After all, Brooks said, keeping Ibaka out and going with a smaller lineup worked in the previous playoff series against the defending champion Mavericks and the Lakers.

Well, you're playing the Spurs now you fing commie.

[therealtruth]

Among them was head coach Scott Brooks admitting to making a mistake by keeping forward Serge Ibaka, the runner-up in the NBA Defensive Player of the Year balloting, on the bench in the fourth quarter. That's when the Spurs scored 39 points and shot 12 of 16, after the Thunder held San Antonio to just 16 points in the third.

Brooks said he'll beat himself up over not putting his defensive ace back in the game, while explaining how sidelining Ibaka seemed the right idea at the time. After all, Brooks said, keeping Ibaka out and going with a smaller lineup worked in the previous playoff series against the defending champion Mavericks and the Lakers.

''I think every decision you make, if it doesn't work out, you say, 'Why did you do that?''' Brooks said. ''And I'm with you on that. I wish I would've played Serge last night.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/thunder-calm-blowing-game-1-211957137--nba.html;_ylt=Aj3WM5AtYyH6MZCDW5lZ7PO8vLYF

The chess match begins. It's interesting I think SB is realizing small ball isn't going to work against us. That means Diaw and Splitter need to be ready to step up.

[ElNono]

We shot terrible from 3, and we had some wide open looks... to be frank, the Spurs hitting more 3s in Game 2 wouldn't be surprising at all, and thus OKC will have to...


Pick your poison kiddos.

[Nathan Explosion]

the thunder also need to replace perkins with ibaka in the fourth. perkins was pretty useless out there and brought no offense, rebounding, or shot blocking. at least ibaka brings some jump shooting, decent rebounding, and exceptional shot blocking. the spurs will then count on duncan to try to out muscle ibaka but right now they both currently weigh about the same (240 pounds) and ibaka has long arms to bother duncan's shots.

Total misconception though. Ibaka isn't a good one on one defender. He's a great help defender and gets his blocks off of help defense. You put him one on one with Duncan and your toast. Duncan took care of Ibaka one on one, and those +/- numbers you saw came with another big in the game.

This is what you'll see if Ibaka is one on one with Duncan.

o7Ej_KbfqG4

If the Thunder try to go small ball with Ibaka in place of Perkins, they're still losing. They need both of them in the game. The problem is, that's one less wing player for OKC and their offense gets worse. And in the 4th, their offense was bad enough as it was with all the missed jumpers.

[Spurs da champs]

Well the Thunder win because their talent plain & simple, they don't have a disciplinarian in Brooks so they roam free & don't get held accountable for any of the shitty shots they usually take. On some real shit I don't think I've seen any coach leave his best shot blocker on the bench when the other team was getting to the paint at will. Well good they have him & we got Pop.

[Nathan Explosion]

Well the Thunder win because their talent plain & simple, they don't have a disciplinarian in Brooks so they roam free & don't get held accountable for any of the shitty shots they usually take. On some real shit I don't think I've seen any coach leave his best shot blocker on the bench when the other team was getting to the paint at will. Well good they have him & we got Pop.

The fallacy of that thought though is that it wouldn't have helped any at all. OKC was playing small ball, so Ibaka would have been the only big out there. Sure he would have challenged shots at the rim, but instead of Gino and Parker getting into the paint for scores, they just would simply make Ibaka commit and then pass to Duncan for the score.

What happened in the 4th wasn't about talent or skill. What happened was all about execution and effort. OKC just got schooled on what execution and effort look like, not unlike the Jazz teams of the 90s used to do to the Spurs.

Once the Spurs hit some outside shots, the painted opened up like a car pool lane, and the Spurs made all the right plays and all the correct passes, like they've been doing all season.

[LakerLanny]

I don't expect the Spurs to have 14 turnovers in a half again any time soon and the Thunder still couldn't beat them.

[Spurs da champs]

The fallacy of that thought though is that it wouldn't have helped any at all. OKC was playing small ball, so Ibaka would have been the only big out there. Sure he would have challenged shots at the rim, but instead of Gino and Parker getting into the paint for scores, they just would simply make Ibaka commit and then pass to Duncan for the score.

What happened in the 4th wasn't about talent or skill. What happened was all about execution and effort. OKC just got schooled on what execution and effort look like, not unlike the Jazz teams of the 90s used to do to the Spurs.

Once the Spurs hit some outside shots, the painted opened up like a car pool lane, and the Spurs made all the right plays and all the correct passes, like they've been doing all season.

I'm not denying that but I'm saying that's how they try & win all the time & it's obviously wont/hasn't worked against the Spurs.
But Ibaka defiantly would've made a difference, stating he wouldn't is just foolish.

[Nathan Explosion]

I'm not denying that but I'm saying that's how they try & win all the time & it's obviously wont/hasn't worked against the Spurs.
But Ibaka defiantly would've made a difference, stating he wouldn't is just foolish.

He definitely would have made a difference, in Duncan's stat line in the 4th. All those drives to the rim would have resulted in easy layups for Duncan because of Ibaka would have rotated over. In fact, Gino and Parker's assists would have gone up too.

I don't see Ibaka as a particularly smart player. He's not a dumb player, just not a smart one either. Duncan would have taken him apart.

But it wouldn't have mattered because the effort was lacking on OKC's part and the Spurs just took them apart. As Kenny Smith would say, they were just surgical in the 4th.

[angelbelow]

If they do, the next game Harden will be talking about how they have to close out better on the 3-point shooters.

Tough task trying to play perfect defense against the Spurs.

[Rapper]

The adjustment we need is to play like what we played during the regular season

PS: when can I start thread on spurstalk?

[therealtruth]

Total misconception though. Ibaka isn't a good one on one defender. He's a great help defender and gets his blocks off of help defense. You put him one on one with Duncan and your toast. Duncan took care of Ibaka one on one, and those +/- numbers you saw came with another big in the game.

This is what you'll see if Ibaka is one on one with Duncan.

o7Ej_KbfqG4

If the Thunder try to go small ball with Ibaka in place of Perkins, they're still losing. They need both of them in the game. The problem is, that's one less wing player for OKC and their offense gets worse. And in the 4th, their offense was bad enough as it was with all the missed jumpers.

I don't think it's necessarily switching Ibaka for Perkins. It probably means going with WB-Harden-Durant-Ibaka-Perkins. Their problem wasn't offense. They gave up a 40 point fourth quarter. They needed better defense.

[PÒÓCH]

The Thunder should just acknowledge the superiority of the Spurs and just give up and fold.
Prior to the start of game two I suggest the all bow down to them and say "we're not worthy"

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/120924_o.gif

[z0sa]

The problem with Brooks making an adjustment or few many have already pointed out in the last 24 hours:

Neither team played their best. Particularly the Spurs tbh. Brooks really needs to toe the line and make great in game adjustments during Game 2, hoping he gets some definitive answers concerning their small ball lineup and whether or not a traditional lineup fairs better.

On the Spurs side, a similar set of circumstances exists obviously, but one thing you can point is you definitely want less FTs for Durant. Otherwise, if the Spurs can string together the 4th quarter's effort and sustain it, I think it's their series to lose, primarily because of the 1-0 lead and HCA.

[Budkin]

Splitter and Duncan isn't happening as long as they stay small, and no for the love of god no Blair...

Didn't Blair beast on them in the regular season?

[Budkin]

The Thunder should just acknowledge the superiority of the Spurs and just give up and fold.
Prior to the start of game two I suggest the all bow down to them and say "we're not worthy"

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/120924_o.gif

I think they're going to come out with a vengeance I'm game 2.

[ViceCity86]

Play 3 chuckers with the 2 bigs.
Thunder adjustment

[thunderfan]

Hey Duncan's clearing out there. lol Seriously though, Duncan WILL, at times, burn Ibaka. But all in all Ibaka has become a nice one-on-one defender. He's actually shown to be a pretty darn effective (as effective as one can be anyways) man defender on Dirk and did well on Gasol too. Duncan's gonna make him look foolish sometimes. He does that to everyone, but Ibaka has the ability to give Duncan a bit of trouble as well.

[Nathan Explosion]

I don't think it's necessarily switching Ibaka for Perkins. It probably means going with WB-Harden-Durant-Ibaka-Perkins. Their problem wasn't offense. They gave up a 40 point fourth quarter. They needed better defense.

They gave up 39 points in the 4th but, if you take away the Harden 3's, they score about 20 points. Ibaka would have to kept the Spurs to 29 points just to get that game into overtime. I don't see that happening.

The one thing that the Spurs can do is hide guys on Ibaka and Perkins because they're not offensive threats. More Ibaka would probably mean more Bonner and the threat of the 3, which keeps Ibaka out of the paint, which negates his one skill on defense, shotblocking.

[thunderfan]

I'm tellin ya, you guys are selling Ibaka short. Would he have made a huge difference in the 4th? I don't know, maybe not. Is he going to make Duncan go cold? Not likely. But you guys are making him out to be nothing but a weak side shot blocker. You think Brooks is going to start a guy who can't play man defense? Ibaka is a better than average man defender, trust me. I've seen every game he's ever played. In the short sample some of you have seen him, perhaps I can understand why you think otherwise..I don't know.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm tellin ya, you guys are selling Ibaka short. Would he have made a huge difference in the 4th? I don't know, maybe not. Is he going to make Duncan go cold? Not likely. But you guys are making him out to be nothing but a weak side shot blocker. You think Brooks is going to start a guy who can't play man defense? Ibaka is a better than average man defender, trust me. I've seen every game he's ever played. In the short sample some of you have seen him, perhaps I can understand why you think otherwise..I don't know.

When someone who is a "better than average man defender" finishes second in DPOY, it's because he's nothing but a weak side shot blocker.

[Nathan Explosion]

Marcus Camby was a 2 time DPOY if I'm not mistaken because he blocked shots like crazy. Turns out, he was a bad man to man defender and was just a good help defender and weak side shot blocker.

Ibaka= Camby 2.0

Plus, if Ibaka plays, so does Bonner because OKC doesn't have a guy who can score on the block. Bonner is a threat to hit from 3, so Ibaka has to play him on the perimeter. Can't protect the rim when you're at the 3 point line.

Put Ibaka on Duncan, and well, you saw the video.

[thunderfan]

When someone who is a "better than average man defender" finishes second in DPOY, it's because he's nothing but a weak side shot blocker.

THat doesn't make any sense. A guy who does nothing but blocks shots and sucks at man defense has no business even being in the discussion for DPOY. He got second because he's actually a pretty versatile defender. I don't think your limited views on him guarding Duncan really qualify you to say otherwise. How often do you watch Ibaka?

[thunderfan]

Marcus Camby was a 2 time DPOY if I'm not mistaken because he blocked shots like crazy. Turns out, he was a bad man to man defender and was just a good help defender and weak side shot blocker.

Ibaka= Camby 2.0

Plus, if Ibaka plays, so does Bonner because OKC doesn't have a guy who can score on the block. Bonner is a threat to hit from 3, so Ibaka has to play him on the perimeter. Can't protect the rim when you're at the 3 point line.

Put Ibaka on Duncan, and well, you saw the video.

Yeah..I saw the video. Strangely enough, Tim Duncan isn't the only guy Ibaka guards during the course of a season and that's also not the only defensive stance Ibaka has made this year. Like I said, I doubt anyone here has seen enough of Ibaka to make a very qualified statement on his defensive capabilities.

[thunderfan]

Why are we taking 1 video clip of Duncan schooling Ibaka and calling Ibaka a bad man defender? He's so bad that this year against OKC, Duncan has gone:

5-13, 11 pts
5-16, 13 pts
5-13, 16 pts
6-15, 16 pts

This from a HOF-er. Not exactly what I'd call bad man defense.

[Nathan Explosion]

Why are we taking 1 video clip of Duncan schooling Ibaka and calling Ibaka a bad man defender? He's so bad that this year against OKC, Duncan has gone:

5-13, 11 pts
5-16, 13 pts
5-13, 16 pts
6-15, 16 pts

This from a HOF-er. Not exactly what I'd call bad man defense.

Perkins guards Duncan. Yeah.

[xellos88330]

Yeah..I saw the video. Strangely enough, Tim Duncan isn't the only guy Ibaka guards during the course of a season and that's also not the only defensive stance Ibaka has made this year. Like I said, I doubt anyone here has seen enough of Ibaka to make a very qualified statement on his defensive capabilities.

So do you think Ibaka can defend Tim one on one, or do you think he will need some weakside help?

IIRC, Perkins played Duncan 1v1 until Duncan went into a shooting motion. That is when Ibaka comes in from the weakside to attempt to block the shot.

[thunderfan]

Perkins has not exclusively guarded Duncan this year. Ibaka has been on him plenty. To answer the question, I think Ibaka could play Duncan
one-on-one reasonably well. As well as Perkins? No. I'm not claiming Ibaka can shut down a guy like Duncan (who can?), I'm arguing the claim that Ibaka is not a good man defender and that he's nothing more than a weak side shot blocker.

[Obstructed_View]

THat doesn't make any sense. A guy who does nothing but blocks shots and sucks at man defense has no business even being in the discussion for DPOY. He got second because he's actually a pretty versatile defender. I don't think your limited views on him guarding Duncan really qualify you to say otherwise. How often do you watch Ibaka?

It makes perfect sense. He got second because he put up blocks on everyone's sexy pick to win the west, and nobody even notices that Perkins takes the big defensive assignment and Ibaka can roam from the weak side. And I agree that he has no business being in the discussion for DPOY. If you think I don't watch OKC play every game, how do you expect all the voters to have done so?

I have league pass broadband and can watch any game from the archive. Give me some examples of how great his individual defense is and I'll go take a look. If he's really this good then there should be plenty of examples.

[Obstructed_View]

Why are we taking 1 video clip of Duncan schooling Ibaka and calling Ibaka a bad man defender? He's so bad that this year against OKC, Duncan has gone:

5-13, 11 pts
5-16, 13 pts
5-13, 16 pts
6-15, 16 pts

This from a HOF-er. Not exactly what I'd call bad man defense.

"I watch every game he's ever played but never bothered to pay attention to who he's guarding" :lol

[Leetonidas]

How to stop the layup drill - they will likely ease up on defending the perimeter in Game 2.

Yep so the Spurs wings need to be ready because they will probably get a lot more open looks from 3 tonight

[thunderfan]

Again - I have not stated or even implied that Ibaka is a "great" man defender. Please read carefully what I'm writing. I'm stating that Ibaka is a better than average man defender. Didn't even say he was "way better than average". Simply "better than average".

Vs. Pau Gasol (typically considered a fairly decent player) in Round 2:

24-54, 60 pts. 12ppg. Guys who can do nothing but block shots weakside typically allow much more offensive production from a guy like Pau Gasol.

[Nathan Explosion]

I'm not claiming Ibaka can shut down a guy like Duncan (who can?), I'm arguing the claim that Ibaka is not a good man defender and that he's nothing more than a weak side shot blocker.

But the problem is, Ibaka can't shut down Duncan, so instead of the layup drill you saw, instead you'd get Duncan just destroying Ibaka in the post. Yeah, let's have a top 10 player of all time beat our team instead. Great idea.

Fact is, you need both Ibaka and Perkins on the floor to play better D. But that puts Bonner on the floor and with his outside shooting (or at least the threat of his outside shooting) that pulls his defender (most likely Ibaka) out to the perimeter and away from the paint, which negates his best asset, his shot blocking. If he free lances, the Spurs will rotate the ball to the open shooter. If you switch Perkins and Ibaka, either Duncan scores at will, or Ibaka rotates to stop the penetration caused by the guards, who then lay the ball off to an open Duncan under the basket.

The problem that OKC has is not personnel, it's game plan. They had no answer for the Spurs pick and roll in the 4th.

Ibaka guards Duncan, Duncan scores on the block. Perkins guards Duncan, they pick and roll him to death, or take Ibaka out of the paint with a 3 point shooter.

[thunderfan]

"I watch every game he's ever played but never bothered to pay attention to who he's guarding" :lol

Stop it. lol Maybe Duncan wasn't the best example.

[Nathan Explosion]

Again - I have not stated or even implied that Ibaka is a "great" man defender. Please read carefully what I'm writing. I'm stating that Ibaka is a better than average man defender. Didn't even say he was "way better than average". Simply "better than average".

Vs. Pau Gasol (typically considered a fairly decent player) in Round 2:

24-54, 60 pts. 12ppg. Guys who can do nothing but block shots weakside typically allow much more offensive production from a guy like Pau Gasol.

Gasol was shooting 3's. I don't know why, but yeah. I'd take Gasol on my team any day because Pop would straighten him out. But Gasol wasn't even trying half the time. Something is definitely wrong with him.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

If they go with Ibaka instead of Perkins, and we counter with Bonner - that's not something in our favor in my opinion.

I agree that Bonner could help pull Ibaka out of the paint, but Bonner in the 4th would pee in his pants. Perhaps Ibaka would slip on Bonner's pee puddle, but otherwise I don't think we want Bonner anywhere near crunch time.

So, I think playing Ibaka will still work to their advantage. OKC thrives off of swarming athletic defense. That's their strength. I'm not saying they will win, but when they do well, it's usually because of this. That's their style.

[Nathan Explosion]

Stop it. lol Maybe Duncan wasn't the best example.

Duncan may not be the best example, but he's the most important one, because, you know, OKC is playing the Spurs.

[thunderfan]

But the problem is, Ibaka can't shut down Duncan, so instead of the layup drill you saw, instead you'd get Duncan just destroying Ibaka in the post. Yeah, let's have a top 10 player of all time beat our team instead. Great idea.

Fact is, you need both Ibaka and Perkins on the floor to play better D. But that puts Bonner on the floor and with his outside shooting (or at least the threat of his outside shooting) that pulls his defender (most likely Ibaka) out to the perimeter and away from the paint, which negates his best asset, his shot blocking. If he free lances, the Spurs will rotate the ball to the open shooter. If you switch Perkins and Ibaka, either Duncan scores at will, or Ibaka rotates to stop the penetration caused by the guards, who then lay the ball off to an open Duncan under the basket.

The problem that OKC has is not personnel, it's game plan. They had no answer for the Spurs pick and roll in the 4th.

Ibaka guards Duncan, Duncan scores on the block. Perkins guards Duncan, they pick and roll him to death, or take Ibaka out of the paint with a 3 point shooter.

I don't disagree. It's pick your poison with SA anyways. I like Ibaka on the floor regardless. I think people have taken my claim that Ibaka is a good man defender and automatically started assuming that I believed Ibaka could shut down Duncan. I don't believe that. However, the assumption that Ibaka has no defensive abilities other than weak side is simply inaccurate.

[thunderfan]

Gasol was shooting 3's. I don't know why, but yeah. I'd take Gasol on my team any day because Pop would straighten him out. But Gasol wasn't even trying half the time. Something is definitely wrong with him.

What?! He shot ONE 3 pointer the whole series and the shot clock was winding down. lol

[Nathan Explosion]

If they go with Ibaka instead of Perkins, and we counter with Bonner - that's not something in our favor in my opinion.

I agree that Bonner could help pull Ibaka out of the paint, but Bonner in the 4th would pee in his pants. Perhaps Ibaka would slip on Bonner's pee puddle, but otherwise I don't think we want Bonner anywhere near crunch time.

So, I think playing Ibaka will still work to their advantage. OKC thrives off of swarming athletic defense. That's their strength. I'm not saying they will win, but when they do well, it's usually because of this. That's their style.

Ibaka isn't a low post player, so if not Bonner, than go small ball with a college PF like Leonard or Jackson. You know, guys who can hit 3s in pressure situations.

OKC doesn't have players that can put their back to the basket and score, so putting a smaller defender on them doesn't hurt the Spurs. And Kahwi is such a good rebounder for his size that it won't hurt the Spurs rebounding much either.

The Spurs strength is their versatility. In that game, I don't think there was a move Brooks could have made that would have won him that game. The Spurs execution was flawless in the 4th.

[Nathan Explosion]

What?! He shot ONE 3 pointer the whole series and the shot clock was winding down. lol

He was shooting corner 3s, and no it wasn't a shot clock issue. Gasol has been shooting that 3 all season, for some strange reason. Pop would never allow that. Again, Gasol has been off this year. I think he hates Kobe but won't ask for a trade.

[thunderfan]

He was shooting corner 3s, and no it wasn't a shot clock issue. Gasol has been shooting that 3 all season, for some strange reason. Pop would never allow that. Again, Gasol has been off this year. I think he hates Kobe but won't ask for a trade.

I'm sorry, Pau Gasol SHOT ONE 3 POINTER against OKC in the playoffs this year. ONE ATTEMPT. Are you seriously arguing this point? Go look it up. Ibaka manned him up the whole series and held him to 12 ppg.

[Nathan Explosion]

I don't disagree. It's pick your poison with SA anyways. I like Ibaka on the floor regardless. I think people have taken my claim that Ibaka is a good man defender and automatically started assuming that I believed Ibaka could shut down Duncan. I don't believe that. However, the assumption that Ibaka has no defensive abilities other than weak side is simply inaccurate.

His defensive ability is weak side help, which in the last game, would have been useless with him being the only big on the court. You need both players on the floor, but the problem is, the Spurs can counter that with great efficiency. I'm not ready to proclaim this team the greatest Spurs team ever (they have to win a title first), but their versatility is amazing.

[xellos88330]

Perkins has not exclusively guarded Duncan this year. Ibaka has been on him plenty. To answer the question, I think Ibaka could play Duncan
one-on-one reasonably well. As well as Perkins? No. I'm not claiming Ibaka can shut down a guy like Duncan (who can?), I'm arguing the claim that Ibaka is not a good man defender and that he's nothing more than a weak side shot blocker.

Ok, so you have Ibaka on Duncan in the Thunder small ball lineup. Duncan is a threat from the high post as well as the low post. In the Spurs pick and roll, Duncan would be the screener forcing Ibaka out of the paint. The Spurs will know that the Thunder WILL NOT want to switch just to keep their shot blocker near the paint. Duncan is a smart player and has 2 decisions, roll hard to the basket or take position on the elbow. If Parker forces the action, Ibaka will have no choice but to chase Parker on the penetration. This could leave Duncan either in prime scoring position moving to the basket w/o Ibaka near, or Duncan with a small on him in the high post/elbow.

Parker can also take the screener wide forcing a switch with Ibaka on him. This is a problem when facing a cerebral team. They will figure out a way. If I can do it, I am pretty sure professionals can.

[thunderfan]

His defensive ability is weak side help, which in the last game, would have been useless with him being the only big on the court. You need both players on the floor, but the problem is, the Spurs can counter that with great efficiency. I'm not ready to proclaim this team the greatest Spurs team ever (they have to win a title first), but their versatility is amazing.

My stance all along was that he should have been out there with Perk. You're having a hard time focusing on my point. lol

[Nathan Explosion]

I'm sorry, Pau Gasol SHOT ONE 3 POINTER against OKC in the playoffs this year. ONE ATTEMPT. Are you seriously arguing this point? Go look it up. Ibaka manned him up the whole series and held him to 12 ppg.

Again, my point was showing Gasol's flaws in his game this year. The Lakers should have pounded the ball to Gasol (in the block not on the perimeter) and Bynum, but instead, Kobe chucked the ball up. Gasol was checked out. Hell, Gasol checked out before the playoffs started. Gasol should have been Finals MVP 2 years ago. But when I saw Gasol play (all season mind you) he just wasn't the same player, and it had nothing to do with physical skills.

And anyway, it's pointless arguing Ibaka vs Gasol, because the only relevant argument is Ibaka vs Duncan, of which, OKC will lose that matchup EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[Nathan Explosion]

My stance all along was that he should have been out there with Perk. You're having a hard time focusing on my point. lol

Thunder fans have been crying since the end of that game that Ibaka should have been in the game and not Perkins. So I'm not missing the point, I was arguing against that point.

But I also said that with the way the Spurs were rolling, it wouldn't have mattered. The execution of the game plan was flawless. OKC lost because their execution was crap.

But, I did address your point and how the Spurs could counter it, be it with a stretch 4 named Bonner or Leonard (a college PF) or Jackson. Either way, Ibaka's offensive game is either alley oop or mid range jumper that's hit or miss. Either way, his game wouldn't punish the Spurs for putting a smaller defender on him.

[Leetonidas]

Serge Ibaka sat on the bench for the final 16:01 of Oklahoma City's 101-98 Game 1 loss to the Spurs.

“I think every decision you make, if it doesn't work out, you say, ‘Why'd you do that?' and I'm right (there) with you on that,” said Scott Brooks.

Brooks used a smaller lineup, playing Kevin Durant at the power forward spot to stretch the defense and also forces the opponent to matchup smaller.

“We've done it in the past and have had a lot of success, so you can't really look back and beat yourself up too much … but I will,” Brooks said. “It was nothing against what Serge did.”

The Thunder were outscored 16-2 in terms of points in the paint in the fourth period.

“Going into the next game, I see him playing his normal minutes,” Brooks said.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221275/Ibaka_Expected_To_Return_To_Normal_Minutes_In_Game _2#ixzz1wH5gl3Qr



Get ready to see the Spurs hit a lot more threes. I expect to see Danny Green hit a few

[Obstructed_View]

Again - I have not stated or even implied that Ibaka is a "great" man defender. Please read carefully what I'm writing. I'm stating that Ibaka is a better than average man defender. Didn't even say he was "way better than average". Simply "better than average".

Which means, at best, almost half the people in the league at his position are better individual defenders. In other words, he's only a DPOY candidate because voters don't know shit about defense, as evidenced by most of the winners over the last ten years.



Vs. Pau Gasol (typically considered a fairly decent player) in Round 2:

24-54, 60 pts. 12ppg. Guys who can do nothing but block shots weakside typically allow much more offensive production from a guy like Pau Gasol
You aren't suggesting the funk that Gasol was in during the playoffs was due to Ibaka's defense, are you?

I gotta say, you're making a pretty weak case here.

[thunderfan]

Thunder fans have been crying since the end of that game that Ibaka should have been in the game and not Perkins. So I'm not missing the point, I was arguing against that point.

But I also said that with the way the Spurs were rolling, it wouldn't have mattered. The execution of the game plan was flawless. OKC lost because their execution was crap.

But, I did address your point and how the Spurs could counter it, be it with a stretch 4 named Bonner or Leonard (a college PF) or Jackson. Either way, Ibaka's offensive game is either alley oop or mid range jumper that's hit or miss. Either way, his game wouldn't punish the Spurs for putting a smaller defender on him.

LIke any fan on any other team, we second guess game decisions and what might have possibly worked better in games that went south. Noone really wanted Ibaka out there in place of Perkins, they would have like to see him out there WITH Perkins. I'm well aware SA would have had an answer as they are very versatile, but it's many people's opinion that that lineup would have at least given OKC a little better look.

[thunderfan]

Alright, noone here is a big Ibaka fan. Your opinion has been noted. Enjoy Game 2.

[xellos88330]

I like Ibaka just fine. He is a solid player. I just don't think going small with Ibaka would be much different than going small with Perkins. The Spurs are an excellent small ball team. We Spurs fans have gone through a lot of frustration with Coach Pop and his insistance on using the scheme. I guess now in hindsight it payed off. The Spurs WANT small ball. They have used it against big lineups, small lineups, athletic lineups, and it has worked out pretty good for the Spurs this season. The only small lineup that I complain about now is micro ball with Blair at the 5.

[temujin]

Alright, noone here is a big Ibaka fan. Your opinion has been noted. Enjoy Game 2.

Ibaka would have helped in the 4th, I agree.
But the real damage was done by Harden and, in part, Westbrook.
Both looked like they had something to prove, for whatever reason.

In general, Brooks is an OK coach, very organized, but as flexible as a steel rod.
He didn't write in the game book that Harden or Westbrook must sit if they are hurting the team. So they just play, irrespective of what they are doing.
And Fisher, by far far far the best OKC player on Sunday, will sit and watch these two guys force shots, TO etch.
This was unlike Pop, who had Neal move from backup PG to 2, with Parker, and Manu to 3 in the 4th. Spurs have rarely played with that lineup.
It's called feeling for the game.

I have no idea what Brooks is writing in the game book tonight, but I am certain he will stick to that no matter what.

[Obstructed_View]

Alright, noone here is a big Ibaka fan. Your opinion has been noted. Enjoy Game 2.

So thanks for that long list of great defensive performances by Ibaka. Your opinion has been noted as being completely devoid of facts to back it up. You won't enjoy game 2.

[td4mvp3]

you know, thunderfan, i appreciated your civility.

[Spurs da champs]

you know, thunderfan, i appreciated your civility.

Yes but it's too bad Obstructed View had something up his ass the whole time.

[thunderfan]

So thanks for that long list of great defensive performances by Ibaka. Your opinion has been noted as being completely devoid of facts to back it up. You won't enjoy game 2.

I don't know. I don't keep a log book. I contend that he's a pretty decent ball defender. Sure, he has match-ups that he struggles with..then again, who doesn't struggle with guys like Dirk? Dirk went 2-15 against Ibaka in a game this year. He held Dirk in check for long stretches during round 1. He's come a long way from the days when he bit on every pump fake and all a guy had to do was get him up in the air. He's played some real solid man defense this year.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know. I don't keep a log book. I contend that he's a pretty decent ball defender. Sure, he has match-ups that he struggles with..then again, who doesn't struggle with guys like Dirk? Dirk went 2-15 against Ibaka in a game this year. He held Dirk in check for long stretches during round 1. He's come a long way from the days when he bit on every pump fake and all a guy had to do was get him up in the air. He's played some real solid man defense this year.

He's only been in the league for three years, and physically he's a beast. He's clearly improving, but I don't really think he was the difference in game 1, particularly for his man to man defense. The Thunder are what they are, and they need to be that in order to have a chance. Brooks gave them a shot to do that by going small. Frankly, against any other team in the league than the Spurs or the Heat it would have worked.

[Whisky Dog]

If I'm Brooks, every time Bonner is on the court I put Sefelosha on him and let him roam off and clog the P and Rs and force Bonner to shoot, even if wide open. I keep doing it into Bonner makes 2 out of 3 or so. I have zero confidence Bonnet would make 2 out of even 6 if they rotated off him and left him wide open in the pressure of the WCF.

I'd have zero respect for Bonner's outside shooting in the WCF until he proves he has balls to knock them down.