Old School Broadcasting

[spicemeister]

As we approach our 5th World Championship, I'm compelled to look back at the first Spurs game broadcast as an NBA team. Dr. J made his debut as a 76'er that night in Philly if you're old enough to remember. Terry Stembridge was the play by play announcer and I was running (producing) the board at WOAI downtown, one floor above WOAI TV..before it became KMOL..then WOAI again!

As the pre game tape ran, the music pounding and introducing Terry we knew it was going to be a memorable night. It was..in more ways than one!

The games were broadcast over phone lines in those days..no satellite. Somewhere in Tennessee a thunderstorm knocked down the phone wire and all we had was "dead air" ...the worst thing that can happen in radio. I went into the Production Room and laid down some instrumental rock music with the announcement: "We have temporarily lost transmission of our game, please stand by." That ran every :30 seconds over the music bed.

The worst thing, however, was the headline in the next day's paper..Light or Express..can't recall which, that read: "Oh, No! Radio!" I was mad and so was everyone else. As WOAI grew as the dominate radio power we always found a way to slight that paper whenever possible!

Now, with digital clarity and satellites, it sounds as though the announcer is in the local studio! That's both good and bad in a way. When Eliza did a week of shows from Moscow and Carl did his yearly week from Washington, the quality was so good it sounded as though they might be in the next room...it had lost that "long distance", Trans Atlantic quality.

Go Spurs!! And thanks for letting an old radio guy discuss the old days!

[spicemeister]

Wish I could, Brother! Too long ago..talking many moons. After we bought the "Network Production Library" we used a lot of cuts from that.

One I used quite a bit for that announcement was "Glamor Profession" by Steely Dan from the 1980 "Gaucho" CD. Looped the long trail at the end.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Ok here's my old guy story. I was a student at Boston U and it must have been the 70-71 season. I used to play pickup with the varsity if they needed a fill in. (I was an actual student!) So we're in the shower and I hear the guys talking about their upcoming game with U Mass. "This guy Erving jumps like a fucking monkey and holds the ball like it's a grapefruit.". Well thinks I, I gotta go to this game. I get there late, walk into the gym, and am standing on the baseline right corner looking to see if any of my buddies are there.

This guy on U Mass with an Afro gets the ball on the wing, tries to drive, gets cut off (the defense was running like 3 guys at him), goes baseline, gets cut off again, and like 6 feet in front of me he goes vertical. Two guys challenge the shot. They go up. They start falling to earth. Erving hangs there like an astronaut in space. Then, he somehow does a freakin 270 IN THE AIR and whips the ball left handed to someone under the basket.

I felt like I'd just seen an alien visitation or something. I will never forget it.

[ShoogarBear]

Terry Stembridge was the best basketball radio announcer I ever heard. And he should have beat the shit out of Johnny Most that night they got into it.

Too bad Stembridge left in the 80s. He was a shoo-in HoFer if he had stayed with the Spurs.

[Fireball]

Interesting stuff ... but the 5th ring is still far away ... and its NBA Championship ... Spurs know better than to call themselves World Champions

[timvp]

Too bad Stembridge left in the 80s. He was a shoo-in HoFer if he had stayed with the Spurs.

Speaking of Stembridge, heard an interesting story about him a couple weeks ago. Supposedly he asked for a raise, the Spurs denied it, he gave them an ultimatum and the Spurs thought they were calling his bluff. But Stembridge actually did walk away from the radio gig and ended up becoming a millionaire in the oil industry.

I never heard him since he quit before I was born but I've never heard of an old timer who didn't think he was one of the best. Probably would have become a HoFer if he stayed in radio but can't feel too sorry for him, tbh.

[ShoogarBear]

Speaking of Stembridge, heard an interesting story about him a couple weeks ago. Supposedly he asked for a raise, the Spurs denied it, he gave them an ultimatum and the Spurs thought they were calling his bluff. But Stembridge actually did walk away from the radio gig and ended up becoming a millionaire in the oil industry.

I never heard him since he quit before I was born but I've never heard of an old timer who didn't think he was one of the best. Probably would have become a HoFer if he stayed in radio but can't feel too sorry for him, tbh.

I knew he went into oil, but I never heard that it was over a salary squabble. Too bad for the Spurs.

Stembridge really was excellent, and it'd be worth the while to listen to some of his broadcasting if any old tapes could be found (particularly the 76 playoff series against the Nets and the 79 series against the Bullets).

Two historical figures which the Spurs really should do more to promote are Terry Stembridge and Angelo Drossos.

[spicemeister]

Terry's best line was at a roast for Red McCombs. Terry went to the mic to kick things off and said, "I come to you tonight in a rented tuxedo to tell it like it is!" And, man, he did..great guy.

Never feel sorry for Terry. As someone said, he did quite well in the oil biz. Yes, I agree with the wise observation above that a 5th World Championship is a long way off. It's a feeling I've got in my gut.

There were times in the old days when Billy Cunningham would come by the station, run into Doug Moe (knowing he was there for his show) and end up playing pinochle and talking about their New York days..those two and Tommy Heinsohn where there one night! Those were some great times!

I remember John Barger telling me and Bob Buck (our 2nd Sports Director..member of the Buck B'casting dynasty) to walk over to Memorial Coliseum in back of the station and announce the Golden Gloves. I said sure as I enjoy boxing. We were about half way there anf Bob hands be a brown paper bag with newspaper in it, saying it was his dinner and to hold it while he got our ID cards out.

That S.O.B. There was a .357 in the bag (he didn't tell me)! Seems he'd been mugged in a covered garage at Busch Stadium one night and had carried ever since... I've got more stories than time! Go Spurs!! Johnny Marks P.S. I agree about honoring Terry and Angelo..I'm sure Red would be all for it.

[TowelWaver]

Terry Stembridge was the best basketball radio announcer I ever heard. And he should have beat the shit out of Johnny Most that night they got into it.

I can't believe I've never heard of this. Can you please relate the details of how Stembredge and Most almost went at it?

[Solid D]

As many of you know, I started following the ABA in 1967 when I was a kid. I was a Boston Celtics fan, having moved back to Texas from the northeast US. Terry Stembridge was the radio PBP man for the Dallas Chaps. Lots of great memories, like listening to Stembridge call the of the 92-foot shot at the buzzer by Jerry Harkness as the Indiana Pacers beat the Chaps. I would later visit the Hall of Fame in Springfield and remember seeing that game ball displayed, where it still sits today as far as I know.

Here is an interview with Stembridge posted on "Remembering the ABA" website where it discusses his move away from broadcasting:
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Terry Stembridge Interview
Conducted by Don Baker

Terry Stembridge was hired by the Dallas Chaparrals of the ABA as Publicity Director and, ultimately, play-by-play announcer for the franchise in 1967. In that first season, he was just one of a couple of broadcasters to air ABA basketball games on the radio, as most franchises didn't then have radio contracts.

Stembridge was the only ABA broadcaster to air every game (pre-season and regular season) for the duration of its franchise (the Dallas Chaps). His games aired on the powerful 50,000 watt KRLD Dallas radio station for six seasons until the franchise was sold and related to San Antonio in 1973. He was the only front office employee to follow the team to San Antonio and continued as the voice of the Spurs on another 50,000 watt station, WOAI San Antonio

At the conclusion of the 1979 season, Terry broadcast his final game for the NBA Spurs - it was broadcast number 1,252 in his career.

Since his retirement from sports broadcasting, Terry has been operating his own oil business from the top floor of a building overlooking downtown Kilgore, Texas, where he now resides. Between his oil interests, his golfing game, and his passion for a soon-to-be-published book he's been collaborating on (concerning the Kilgore oil boom of the 1930's), Terry sat down with me and chatted about his days in the old ABA.

Terry Stembridge poses with the ABA basketball used in the last game ever played by the Dallas Chaparrals. The game was played at Moody Coliseum on March 26, 1973 in front of only 130 fans. Ted "Hound Dog" McClain of the Carolina Cougars blocked a Dallas shot at the final buzzer, and the ball landed at Terry's position at press row.

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Terry Stembridge, Dallas Chaparrals and San Antonio Spurs radio/TV broadcaster (1967-1979).
An edited transcript of our conversation

Don:Terry, do you keep with people - old friends from your days in the ABA? I know you didn't go to the ABA's 25-Year Reunion in 1997. Can I ask why?

Terry: I regret not going, but a little bit of me didn't want to go. It wasn't one of the things I really wanted to do. But during the summers, I go to Pinehurst and play golf with Doug Moe, Larry Brown, Billy Cunningham, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, Gar Heard, and guys that were in the ABA and NBA together. We play together, a little golf tournament every summer - around fourteen or fifteen of us.

Don: Before you became the voice of the Dallas Chaparrals in 1967, did you listen to any NBA play-by-play broadcasting?

Terry: The only games I ever heard, that I can recall, were the St. Louis Hawks. We could get KMOX because that was the NBA's most southerly team. I'd be listening to Jerry Gross back in 1961 - he made it so exciting and the games were so exciting. I'd be doing high school games and I'd be coming back from little towns around Kilgore. And I'd get KMOX and they'd be playing the late games played by the Hawks out on the west coast - St. Louis had Bill Bridges, Zelmo Beaty, and Lenny Wilkins. They were really good but they couldn't win in the playoffs. Jerry Gross was really good and he knew basketball.

Don: You're watching those dull NBA games on TV back in the late 1960's - always LA, Boston, New York and Philly - and then you're going into your ABA arenas and seeing guys like Connie Hawkins, Ollie Taylor, Warren Armstrong, and in '69, Spencer Haywood. Those guys were performing fantastic feats over the rim. Did you ever think of yourself too as a maverick broadcaster, and that you needed to develop a play-by-play style that fit the ABA style of innovative basketball?

Terry: No - our games were more exciting. If you're running and shooting you're going to have faster pace, a more exciting game. Our games were exciting - we had a lot of personalities in players - we had some fights. The NBA was so slow at that time - dribble it up and get the ball inside to the big guys in the middle. Then it was always turn around and shoot it - or Baylor going one-on-one. I always thought I was a different kind of broadcaster - I had a different style. I was untrained and I didn't grow up in radio. Being in Kilgore, my years in the wilderness of a small 250 watt station - I was my own scorekeeper. I developed the basketball scorebook - announcers didn't have those. I always wanted to tell you, the listener, what I was seeing and feeling. A lot of guys that broadcast just broadcast - but I wanted you to feel the game and I got excited about the games. I wanted to do what I heard Jerry Gross do.

Don: For the hardcore ABA fan, let's talk about the "big trade." Not the Gervin trade, but the Chaps trade of Glen Combs and Ron Boone to the Utah Stars for Donnie Freeman and Wayne Hightower. It took place early in the 1970-71 season, the fourth season of the ABA. What was your opinion on that and why it was done?

Terry: Terrible, terrible. The franchise was doing badly. When Max Williams quit (he stepped down as coach of the Chaps), they gave the job to Bill Blakely. He had been a junior college coach and had no experience in the ABA. He made some ill-advised trades, and management didn't have anyone watching over an inexperienced coach the way they should have. They should have never traded Ron Boone and Glen Combs - Donnie was a good player, but they gave up too much. The truth of the matter is that even as good as Donnie Freeman was, Ron Boone and Glen Combs were fabulous.

Don: And what about John Beasley and Charlie Beasley?

Terry: Somebody didn't like the way John Beasley played. They thought that John wasn't an effective enough defensive player. And Tom Nissalke got rid of Charlie Beasley - Nissalke didn't want anyone from the old franchise. He didn't want anything or anybody else to get credit but him. So consequently, it was his method of operation to downplay anything that had ever gone before - including radio announcing. He was also antagonistic towards me. Nissalke was a bad guy in Dallas and our GM sort of set him up - Nissalke went out to look at the job in Seattle (the Sonics), but he didn't really want to go to Seattle. He wanted to use it as a bargaining chip to get a better contract in Dallas. But the GM wouldn't do it because he really didn't want him. Nissalke backed himself into a corner and had to leave Dallas. But lo and behold, he wound up being the coach in San Antonio in our first year there. He came back like a bad penny.

Don: What were some of your favorite arenas in the ABA?

Terry: One of my favorite arenas to broadcast from was the Auditorium Arena in Denver. It seated about 5,000 and had a balcony. Everything was right on top of you. You could see everything. You could see beads of perspiration on the players. It was a fabulous place to broadcast from. The crowd noise was great, the excitement was great - fabulous place. Strange as it seems, I always enjoyed going to New Orleans and playing at Loyola Field House. The crowds weren't very large, but the arena had a stage-like playing floor - you were down below and the playing floor was up on a stage. The fans were set back and it was an old Quonset Hut-looking building. The building had no air conditioning or heating. When it was really cold, the fans would take newspapers and start fires in the aisles. Like yesterday, I can still see Coach Babe McCarthy coaching a game at the end of the floor in an overcoat. The Salt Palace - where the Utah Stars were in their heyday - was a great, great place to go. And, I always liked to go to the Sports Arena in Los Angeles. The thing I remember is that they had a turnstile counter up there, and every time somebody would go through it, it would click.

Don: Were you in favor of the ABA/NBA merger?

Terry: I had mixed feeling with the merger. I wanted to stay in basketball and I wanted our franchise to survive. Yeah, I guess I was really excited about the merger because I'd been through so many ups and downs in the ABA when it seemed like we were always going out of existence, and we somehow survived. It's really incredible how the ABA survived - there's no reason it should have survived, but there was always somebody else coming in. Look at the leagues that have tried since then - nobody's even gotten a foothold.

Don: What about Loose Balls, Terry Pluto's book about the American Basketball Association?

Terry: Fabulous. I loved it. I thought he did a wonderful job. He got so much of the ABA in there. So much of the humor and the craziness of it. I don't see how you could have written the book any better than letting the people tell their stories. I thought it was one of the best sports books I've ever read. It was really painful for me to read it, because it made you realize that you were a part of something really special when you were young - and now it's all gone. And you reach out for something that's gone, like a puff of smoke.

Don: How about Long Shots - the HBO documentary about the Life and Times of the American Basketball Association?

Terry: I thought it was great too. Obviously, it left out a lot of stuff. But for an hour, they did a really good job. And I didn't see how they could pull it all together like they did. But they did. I was glad to be included. I was thrilled that I got to be a part of it. From the time they shot it to the time it came out - it shocked me. It wasn't long. It only took a few months.

Don: Will you ever write a book about the history of the ABA?

Terry: No. If I have had one regret, it's that I didn't put down what I saw and heard. I just don't think I could pull enough out of my memory. It's been so long ago. I do regret not keeping all of my on air openings and closings. I have some of those on tape, and I thought of doing a little book for some of my friends. Some of my openings and closings really did capture the spirit of a vanished league.

Don: In the 1979 NBA Eastern Conference Finals, your Spurs had the Bullets down three games to one before losing that series. An interesting phrase came out of it: "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings." Can you tell me that story?

Terry: I don't know who got the credit for it. I think Dick Motta gets credit for it. Somebody said that a San Antonio sportscaster used the phrase "The fat lady hasn't sung yet." A lot of people thought it was me. But in reality it was Dan Cook, the sports editor of the San Antonio newspaper. He was the one that said it because he also had a San Antonio sports show and he uttered it one night, and Motta picked up on it. And Motta credited a San Antonio sportswriter and people mistakenly thought it was me. I wish I'd been the one - but that's where it came from. But in 1979, the San Antonio Spurs should have been in the NBA Finals, and they should have won the NBA Title. That would have been a fitting triumph and glory for the ABA, and it's just a shame that it didn't happen.

Don: Your final season broadcasting was the 1979 season. What made you walk away from the game?

Terry: It was a combination of things. I had made the decision to retire in the fall/winter of 1978. I was offered a chance to go into the oil business, and I felt like I needed to go. It was the only way I was going to be financially independent. I thought I probably should have stayed in radio - a part of me died with basketball - I defined myself by being the voice of the Chaps and the Spurs. I had confidence and felt like I contributed something. I felt like it was appreciated.

Don: Do you think that there'll always be a play-by-play radio broadcaster? Is there always going to be a place for a guy giving a verbal description of a basketball game?

Terry: That's a good question - radio is not as important anymore. I think a lot of people will still listen to basketball - they'll listen on their car radios. I don't think they'll listen in their homes because they televise so many of the games now. So radio broadcasts are going to be dependent on car radios, mostly.

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This interview Copyright © Don Baker and was used with permission by ABA Remembers

[ShoogarBear]

I can't believe I've never heard of this. Can you please relate the details of how Stembredge and Most almost went at it?

First off, unfortunately I've never heard the actual broadcast. This was pre-Internet/pre-SportsCenter, so I've only been able to get a few bits and pieces of it. But here is independent confirmation from a 1977 SI story that it did happen: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092297/index.htm

The background to this is that Red Auerbach was a vindictive, shriveled cuss who hated the ABA and hated the merger. He made sure that, unlike with the AFL-NFL merger, ABA player records would never be combined with NBA records, even though the first year of the merger proved that the talent difference between the leagues was nonexistant.

Johnny Most was an overrated POS announcer who was only known because the Celtics were winning championships (think of how Sam Smith got a reputation by being the Bulls beat writer; once the Bulls stopped winning, he was exposed as being pretty much a hack). Most's broadcasts were horrible. I know whereof I speak because unfortunately I heard many more of Most's broadcasts than I did of Stembridge's. Celtic fans loved him in the same way one loves a crazy demented uncle who farts and drools on himself while his friends look on in horror. Unlike Chick Hearn, who was truly a great broadcaster, Most was a complete homerific joke who related none of what was actually going on in the game. (Basically Tommy Heinsohn's entire shtick is watered-down Most.)

Anyway, the details are sketchy, but the genesis of the fight undoubtedly had to do with Most making some Auerbach-fueled disparaging remarks on the air about the ABA, and Stembridge took umbrage. No actual punches were thrown, but apparently it got pretty close.

(Interesting side note in trying to Google some stuff: apparently Terry Stembridge, Jr. was the Vikings' PBP announcer for the 2001 season--when Red McCombs owned the team--but he did not do too well.)

[spicemeister]

Great Quote From The SI Vault (1977):

"The Celtics (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Boston_Celtics/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), meanwhile, will have to cope with San Antonio (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/San_Antonio/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), the NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/National_Basketball_Association/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s answer to Sam Peckinpah's Wild Bunch. The Spurs are capable of making the Celtics (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Boston_Celtics/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)' blood run cold. "Those sum-bitches get started," says Jo Jo White (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Jo_Jo_White/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), "you can be in hell."

[TowelWaver]

First off, unfortunately I've never heard the actual broadcast. This was pre-Internet/pre-SportsCenter, so I've only been able to get a few bits and pieces of it. But here is independent confirmation from a 1977 SI story that it did happen: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092297/index.htm

The background to this is that Red Auerbach was a vindictive, shriveled cuss who hated the ABA and hated the merger. He made sure that, unlike with the AFL-NFL merger, ABA player records would never be combined with NBA records, even though the first year of the merger proved that the talent difference between the leagues was nonexistant.

Johnny Most was an overrated POS announcer who was only known because the Celtics were winning championships (think of how Sam Smith got a reputation by being the Bulls beat writer; once the Bulls stopped winning, he was exposed as being pretty much a hack). Most's broadcasts were horrible. I know whereof I speak because unfortunately I heard many more of Most's broadcasts than I did of Stembridge's. Celtic fans loved him in the same way one loves a crazy demented uncle who farts and drools on himself while his friends look on in horror. Unlike Chick Hearn, who was truly a great broadcaster, Most was a complete homerific joke who related none of what was actually going on in the game. (Basically Tommy Heinsohn's entire shtick is watered-down Most.)

Anyway, the details are sketchy, but the genesis of the fight undoubtedly had to do with Most making some Auerbach-fueled disparaging remarks on the air about the ABA, and Stembridge took umbrage. No actual punches were thrown, but apparently it got pretty close.

(Interesting side note in trying to Google some stuff: apparently Terry Stembridge, Jr. was the Vikings' PBP announcer for the 2001 season--when Red McCombs owned the team--but he did not do too well.)

Awesome. I've seen Auerbach's view of the ABA--"Let em rot," he said in an on-camera interview--but hadn't heard that it almost led to some fisticuffs after the merger. It doesn't surprise me hearing that about Most either, everything I've heard secondhand was that he called the games as a morality play with Celtics=good, opponent=evil. You can really see Heinsohn as his spiritual heir.

Thanks for the info, good stuff!

[spicemeister]

Auerbach's shade of "Red" obviously paled in comparison to ours! When the Squires held their fire sale, our Red got GG for a song...a franchise player for pennies on the dollar. He (Red McCombs) saw the potential and Hemisphere Arena had to be enlarged to accommodate the growing fan base.

[Solid D]

Auerbach's shade of "Red" obviously paled in comparison to ours! When the Squires held their fire sale, our Red got GG for a song...a franchise player for pennies on the dollar. He (Red McCombs) saw the potential and Hemisphere Arena had to be enlarged to accommodate the growing fan base.

Actually, the HemisFair Arena had to be enlarged to meet the NBA minimum requirements for the size of an NBA arena. If the Spurs hadn't raised roof, they wouldn't have been able to keep up with the standards. I think it went from 10,000 to 16,000 seats.

[spicemeister]

I like the idea of that. I have to assume that went into effect after we joined the NBA and had played several games. Wonderful information! This is why I joined..to learn something..anything new about my team. Thanks, Solid D!

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Two historical figures which the Spurs really should do more to promote are Terry Stembridge and Angelo Drossos.

Jack Pitluk Jr. as well. Very possible the Chapparals never wouldve moved here without him. Never gets any credit though, I always just hear about Red and Drossos. Full disclosure: he was my Grandfather. Methinks I might write up a piece in his memory for Spurstalk one day. No one ever mentions him but he was essential in the franchise relocation AND he discovered Tim Derk at San Pedro Playhouse (an anecdote Derk recounts in 'Hi Mom, Send Sheep,' misspelling the family name, as it often is, 'Pitluck')

[spicemeister]

I use to play with Jack's trains! Bev Coiner (bless him) would call me and I'd go spend a happy hour or more with the two! Great times!

[The ADMIRAL 50]

I use to play with Jack's trains! Bev Coiner (bless him) would call me and I'd go spend a happy hour or more with the two! Great times!

dont wanna rib you too bad but you must be old haha. cool you knew the fam :toast

[spicemeister]

66 and going strong! :O)

[spicemeister]

One thing I neglected to mention, and I don't mean to be negative..just an interesting aspect of pro sports in general. I can't remember the guy's name..he played with the Spurs while the Admiral was active. I would take a tape recorder and go to practice sessions for "sound bites" that I'd use in Spurs' promos and station ID's.

The process was simple as I never wanted to take up more time than necessary. On an index card was the following:" Hi, this is _____ inviting you to follow the Spurs on WOAI." One player, Graduated from St. John's, and his absolute best effort was:" Hi, this is___invatating you to the following on the wolf."

Brother, that is sad. The man couldn't read, was graduated from a major college and went on to the Pros...pushed along because he could really play round ball. If he had a career ending injury..what's he going to do? Everything has an ugly underside and that's one of pro sport's.

[Spur|n|Austin]

good stuff :tu

[Obstructed_View]

I almost didn't click on this thread. What a mistake that would have been. Great stuff.

[Russ]

Terry Stembridge's signature line when he signed off every broadcast, win or lose --

"There will be another night!"

[ShoogarBear]

One thing I neglected to mention, and I don't mean to be negative..just an interesting aspect of pro sports in general. I can't remember the guy's name..he played with the Spurs while the Admiral was active. I would take a tape recorder and go to practice sessions for "sound bites" that I'd use in Spurs' promos and station ID's.

The process was simple as I never wanted to take up more time than necessary. On an index card was the following:" Hi, this is _____ inviting you to follow the Spurs on WOAI." One player, Graduated from St. John's, and his absolute best effort was:" Hi, this is___invatating you to the following on the wolf."

Brother, that is sad. The man couldn't read, was graduated from a major college and went on to the Pros...pushed along because he could really play round ball. If he had a career ending injury..what's he going to do? Everything has an ugly underside and that's one of pro sport's.

Sounds like Walter "The Truth" Berry, aka Alvin Robertson's pinboard.