Why does no one question Sheed's "heart"?

[DarrinS]

No one ever question's Rasheed Wallace's heart or toughness. Why is that? He plays the same position as Tim.

It's because Tim is so damn good, that great things are expected from him.

Tim had played good basketball in this series.

Consider these finals stats:

Tim is 2nd only to Billups in pts per game
Tim is 1st in rebounds (offensive and defensive)
Tim is 2nd only to Richard Hamilton in TOTAL MINUTES PLAYED
Tim had 6 double-doubles, compared with only 3 for Ben Wallace and 0, zilch, nada for Rasheed Wallace.

The only place where he lags behind the brothers Wallace is in blocks. That's because the Pistons are not really driving into the paint. Why drive, when your shooting such a high percentage of jump shots. Hopefully, that will change tonight.

[underoath]

He's definatley shown more heart than Tim lately.

[DarrinS]

He's definatley shown more heart than Tim lately.

It takes heart to jack up a 3? :rolleyes

[Tobias]

He's definatley shown more heart than Tim lately.
Bullshit. Duncan played like a star games 5 and 6 (the little they got the ball to him.)
Pseudo-chokes aside, Duncans got the heart.

[wsdp]

It takes heart to jack up a 3? :rolleyes

He wears it on his sleeve - his putback in game 7 vs. Miami w/ under 1:00 to go closed out the Heat and his putback at end of game 6 tied this series...

What you seem to forget it Rasheed never wanted to be a 20 & 10 guy, he was forced into that position in Portland and never succeded. He's in a system where he can be a complementry player and he's excelled in it.

[Tobias]

Since when did performance in the clutch == heart.

Get yer lingo right. How does wearing his heart on his sleeve have any relevance to his putback on the Heat?

[nkdlunch]

Sheed has been bailed out multiple times this series. He has shown nothing special this series.

[DarrinS]

What you seem to forget it Rasheed never wanted to be a 20 & 10 guy, he was forced into that position in Portland and never succeded. He's in a system where he can be a complementry player and he's excelled in it.

That's because he doesn't have the heart to be the player Tim is. That was the original thought of my post.

[Spurminator]

Sheed's brain usually takes most of the heat.

[MainEvent]

It's all relative. People want to compare Duncan to the all time greats. And while he's certainly comparable to many of them, people question his desire when compared to totally driven guys like Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc. Guys that would rip your head off to win a game if they had too. The media expects Duncan to perform with that same sort of intensity. And when he doesn't, there's a little bit of backlash. It doesn't mean Timmy's not a great, great player.

As for Sheed, people do quesition his motivation and drive at times, but since he's settled into a role player position, he's not someone that shoulders the burden of his team's success by himself.

[DarrinS]

Sheed's brain usually takes most of the heat.

I hope Sheed has a couple of tantrums tonight and gets ejected. Sheed is a good jump shooter. I'll give him that. But not half as good as Dirk Novitzki (sp?). And he's a decent defender. But not as good as Duncan.

Let's see Sheed play the post like Tim and get his arms sledge hammered on every possession. We'd see how much "heart" he really has.

[whottt]

As they were leaving the practice facility Wednesday, the morning of their final shootaround together, [Bonzi] Wells and [Rasheed] Wallace saw Ruben Boumtje Boumtje shooting jump shots some 100 feet away with his back turned to them.

Wallace slapped Wells on the back and said, "Watch this." Then he picked up a ball, reared back and fired a 100-foot, baseball-style strike that left Boumtje Boumtje writhing the floor. Trainers were summoned. After a few scary minutes, Boumtje Boumtje walked off, OK.

Wells and Wallace?

They giggled like schoolchildren and ran away the moment their teammate hit the canvas."



was suspended for seven games for "confronting and threatening" a referee near the loading docks outside the Rose Garden



If that's not heart I don't know what is.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I hope Sheed has a couple of tantrums tonight and gets ejected. Sheed is a good jump shooter. I'll give him that. But not half as good as Dirk Novitzki (sp?). And he's a decent defender. But not as good as Duncan.

Let's see Sheed play the post like Tim and get his arms sledge hammered on every possession. We'd see how much "heart" he really has.


:lmao at being ejected tonight...

After watching this series, I don't see TD as #1 All-Defensive team guy. IMO, it's the most overrated part of his game.

[bigzak25]

TD is going up against BOTH wallace's singlehandedly and outplaying BOTH of them at times.

Naz has been mia for 4 games, and rasho...uh, he's rasho.

Not to mention Detroit has Mcdyess off the bench.

TD is all heart.

Wallace, as said, is a secondary role player. He's got talent, no doubt. But he's not half the man TD is. Recognize.

[wsdp]

If that's not heart I don't know what is.

If you want to live in the past, talk to me about last year's 2-0 lead on the Lakers. If you want to talk about the future, talk to me tomorrow about blowing 2-0 leads 2 consecutive years.

[DarrinS]

TD is going up against BOTH wallace's singlehandedly and outplaying BOTH of them at times.

Naz has been mia for 4 games, and rasho...uh, he's rasho.

Not to mention Detroit has Mcdyess off the bench.

TD is all heart.

Wallace, as said, is a secondary role player. He's got talent, no doubt. But he's not half the man TD is. Recognize.

If THAT'S not heart. I don't know what is.

[wsdp]

Wallace, as said, is a secondary role player. He's got talent, no doubt. But he's not half the man TD is. Recognize.

I recognize that Tim couldn't tip in a shot at the end of the 4th Q in Game 5 (don't give me the BS about his ankles, if they're that much of a problem, he shouldn't be playing) yet Rasheed tipped in the shot to win Game 7 vs. Miami and the shot to beat S.A. in Game 6 with less than 2:00 to go.

Recognize?

[bigzak25]

recognize that it's 3-3 and it's what they do TONIGHT that counts.

[NoMoneyDown]

After watching this series, I don't see TD as #1 All-Defensive team guy. IMO, it's the most overrated part of his game.

Well, at least you have one point correct it's YOUR opinion.

[DarrinS]

I recognize that Tim couldn't tip in a shot at the end of the 4th Q in Game 5 (don't give me the BS about his ankles, if they're that much of a problem, he should be playing) yet Rasheed tipped in the shot to win Game 7 vs. Miami and the shot to beat S.A. in Game 6 with less than 2:00 to go.

Recognize?


I'll let history be the judge. Surely, Tim will be remembered (when all is said and done) as one of the greatest P.FWD's of ALL TIME.

Sheed will be remembered for having the most technicals, sporting that stupid WWF belt over his shoulder, and being scorched by the most beautiful, clutch 3 pointers of all time. That is -- if he is remembered at all.

[JamStone]

A few points ...

Rasheed doesn't care what people write or say about him.

In the championship DVD from last year, Rasheed was quoted as saying "I'm not in this game to be in the hall of fame. I'm not in it for scoring titles or to set defensive records. I'm in this game for moments like this ... to win championships."

Rasheed is not the unquestioned leader of the Pistons. Ben Wallace and Chauncey are. That's why Rasheed's heart is not in question the way Tim Duncan's heart is.

Rasheed being suspended for seven games for confronting a referee outside the stadium was a dumb act and he was wrong for it. But, it shows how much he cares about the game. No justification for it, but he's that passionate about winning and losing.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Well, at least you have one point correct it's YOUR opinion.

I just think KG had a better year...

[bdubya]

Sheed's brain usually takes most of the heat.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It's like 'Sheed's Nike ad; "the worst thing you can do...is give it room to breathe....BREATHE.....

<aaHOO!>

......'cause it'll probably get T'd up"



(j/k - all love to Sheed)

[tekdragon]

I just think KG had a better year...

A better year than who? Darko?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

A better year than who? Darko?


A better year than TD. Health, points, rebs, assists, steals, FG%, FT%...

It's my bad, I thought KG was 2nd team all defensive...

[samikeyp]

don't give me the BS about his ankles, if they're that much of a problem, he should be playing

He IS playing, moron.

[tekdragon]

A better year than TD. Health, points, rebs, assists, steals, FG%, FT%...

It's my bad, I thought KG was 2nd team all defensive...

I guess wins aren't a factor, huh? You know who else had a great year?

Elton Brand.

[bdubya]

A better year than TD. Health, points, rebs, assists, steals, FG%, FT%....

....lottery....

KG had great numbers (hey, SOMEBODY in MN had to), but it's hard to call it a better year.

[samikeyp]

if someone has done what it takes to succeed in the NBA.....you can never question their heart.

[CaptainHook]

Rasheed's heart is full of cannabis

[MannyIsGod]

Why are Pistons fans pissed off about hearing about Tim's ankles? It's a well known fact that he's not at 100%. To say that he shouldn't be playing is just idiotic. Duncan at 80% is still better than 99% of the players in this leauge, and still good enough to be putting up good numbers against the defensive player of the year.

But if don't think it's not hurting him then you are smoking some good shit. The putback - or putback that never was - epitmized just how much of his lift has been robbed by this injury. Duncan has never been a huge above the rim player, but he has definetly had a much better set of legs than he has right now.

In no way is this taking anything away from Detroit because every team has injuries at this point of the year, but count your blessings that Duncan's legs aren't all there. It's definetly been a factor.

[wsdp]

I'll let history be the judge. Surely, Tim will be remembered (when all is said and done) as one of the greatest P.FWD's of ALL TIME.

Sheed will be remembered for having the most technicals, sporting that stupid WWF belt over his shoulder, and being scorched by the most beautiful, clutch 3 pointers of all time. That is -- if he is remembered at all.

Sheed's a teammate, not an individual - he could give a <bleep> less about being remembered individually ... Rings speak louder than individual recognition.

[caspian]

What you seem to forget it Rasheed never wanted to be a 20 & 10 guy, he was forced into that position in Portland and never succeded.

Exactly. He can't.

[MannyIsGod]

Sheed has the fortune of being on the right team. His game fits in very well with Detroit, but he's not a player that would go well with very many teams. He may say he doesn't care about individual awards and acolades, but you have to remember two things. Professional athleates very rarely admit to wanting those awards. And secondly, he's not in a position to gain any awards, so it really is moot. Yeah, someone the fact that I don't get the NBA MVP award doesn't bother me either.

Sheed wears his heart on his sleeve, and I don't doubt he has desire and passion for the game. But like someone mentoined, it's his brain that is usually questioned.

[MadDog73]

There's something else going on about the hate on TD, though.

Let's take Shaq for example instead of Rasheed (who even Piston fans recognize is not the same caliber player that TD is).

Shaq wasn't called out for not having "heart" when he sat out two games of the playoffs. He hasn't been called soft, even though he's been beaten by these Pistons twice now.

So how come Tim's heart and toughness comes into question? Because our basketball culture is so fucked up. Piston fans are the one who should recognize this symptom more than anyone else.

If you don't have attitude like AI or KG, then you have no heart (even though they have won no Rings). If you don't hard foul everyone who comes near you like Karl Malone, you don't have toughness (even though Tim has 2 Rings to Karl's Zero).

If you play like a team, and have to sacrifice your own numbers for a win, then you are a Champion. Duncan does not need to have a triple-double and/or score 30+ points to be a Champion tonight. He just needs do his part.

No matter who wins, I don't see how you can question the Heart of any of these two Champion teams playing a Game 7 in the Finals. That's just wrong, and everyone here knows better.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rasheed is not a superstar.

Tim is widely regarded as one of the top three players in the game, and certainly the best in this series. Of course he'll be scrutinized far more than anyone else.

He is now wearing the crown, and accepting the burden, that DRob had all those years. Because he isn't flamboyant and approaches the game with humility he is an easy target for loud-mouthed talking media heads who either never played the game or weren't half the player Tim is.

Win or lose it's all on Timmy's shoulders now.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Why are Pistons fans pissed off about hearing about Tim's ankles? It's a well known fact that he's not at 100%. To say that he shouldn't be playing is just idiotic. Duncan at 80% is still better than 99% of the players in this leauge, and still good enough to be putting up good numbers against the defensive player of the year.

But if don't think it's not hurting him then you are smoking some good shit. The putback - or putback that never was - epitmized just how much of his lift has been robbed by this injury. Duncan has never been a huge above the rim player, but he has definetly had a much better set of legs than he has right now.

In no way is this taking anything away from Detroit because every team has injuries at this point of the year, but count your blessings that Duncan's legs aren't all there. It's definetly been a factor.

He'd get grilled in Detroit for taking 3 months to get better from a sprained ankle. Seriously, is that the longest time ever anyone has been limited by a sprain?

Count your blessings that Rip, Ben, and Prince aren't healthy either... :lol

[wsdp]

Sheed has the fortune of being on the right team. His game fits in very well with Detroit, but he's not a player that would go well with very many teams. He may say he doesn't care about individual awards and acolades, but you have to remember two things. Professional athleates very rarely admit to wanting those awards. And secondly, he's not in a position to gain any awards, so it really is moot. Yeah, someone the fact that I don't get the NBA MVP award doesn't bother me either.

Sheed wears his heart on his sleeve, and I don't doubt he has desire and passion for the game. But like someone mentoined, it's his brain that is usually questioned.

Alright Spurs fans, one of your own just rewrote what I've said twice in this post... want to rip MannyIsGod now?

[JamStone]

Why are Pistons fans pissed off about hearing about Tim's ankles? It's a well known fact that he's not at 100%. To say that he shouldn't be playing is just idiotic. Duncan at 80% is still better than 99% of the players in this leauge, and still good enough to be putting up good numbers against the defensive player of the year.



Same reason Spurs fans hate to see the Pistons whine about officiating. It's a built in excuse for losing.

Tim Duncan may not be at 100%, but who is?

Did you know that Ben Wallace has bone spurs in one of his feet that will require surgery after the playoffs? Of course not, you won't hear anyone bringing it up to make it an excuse. You probably didn't know that Ben Wallace's son had surgery a few weeks ago and one of his childhood friends was killed in a car accident, that had likely affected his play in the Miami series and early on in this series.

But, like Tim's ankles or Tim's pregnant wife, why bring that up? You still have to play the games.

Bad ankles or not, Tim's out there playing and competing. He's not making the excuses. Nor should the media or you Spurs fans on his behalf.

[MadDog73]

He'd get grilled in Detroit for taking 3 months to get better from a sprained ankle. Seriously, is that the longest time ever anyone has been limited by a sprain?

Count your blessings that Rip, Ben, and Prince aren't healthy either... :lol


Yep, that Tim, he's really blown it for the Spurs. It took 7 games to do to the Pistons what the Spurs should've done in 4. :lol

And how the hell are Rip, Ben and Prince injured?

[GrandeDavid]

What heart?

[JamStone]

Tim is widely regarded as one of the top three players in the game, and certainly the best in this series. Of course he'll be scrutinized far more than anyone else.



Tim is definitely a great player and among the best in the league.

But, I don't think it's "CERTAIN" that he's been the best player in this series. Chauncey Billups has been pretty good the whole series himself. Argue it all you want, but Chauncey has been at the very least AS GOOD as Duncan has been in this series.

[MannyIsGod]

No one here is using that as an excuse. Well, no one who knows better, but there are plenty of idiot fans of each team to go around. And like I said, everyone has injuries at this time of the year.

[MannyIsGod]

He'd get grilled in Detroit for taking 3 months to get better from a sprained ankle. Seriously, is that the longest time ever anyone has been limited by a sprain?

Count your blessings that Rip, Ben, and Prince aren't healthy either... :lol
He'd get grilled? WTF? You think he doesn't want it to get healthy? I'm sure if he took enough time off it would be healthy, but the fact is that the ankle isn't going to be any better untill it has substantial time to repair. READ : The offseason. He's out there because the Spurs need him, and because of his heart.

[The Mask]

Bullshit. Duncan played like a star games 5 and 6 (the little they got the ball to him.)
Pseudo-chokes aside, Duncans got the heart.

If stars miss critical FTs

[SouthernFried]

Chauncy's been a good scorer.

Tims been the 2nd best scorer...and the 1st best offensive rebounder...the 1st best defensive rebounder, more blocks than chauncy...etc.

Chauncy's been a good scorer...and he hasn't turned over the ball.

But, they ain't comparable.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Yep, that Tim, he's really blown it for the Spurs. It took 7 games to do to the Pistons what the Spurs should've done in 4. :lol

And how the hell are Rip, Ben and Prince injured?

Rip has a bad calf, Prince an ankle that will require surgery and Ben bone spurs that will require surgery.

[samikeyp]

IMO Duncan is the best player in the series....I just don't think he is playing the best in the series. I never question Wallace's heart, just his mind. He has acted stupidly over the years and it has cost him. Passion is great but you have to use that to your advantage and Rasheed hasn't always done that.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

He'd get grilled? WTF? You think he doesn't want it to get healthy? I'm sure if he took enough time off it would be healthy, but the fact is that the ankle isn't going to be any better untill it has substantial time to repair. READ : The offseason. He's out there because the Spurs need him, and because of his heart.


I'm just saying that some fans would be all over him here for that. Is he gonna need surgery or just rest?

[samikeyp]

nobody is totally healthy this time of year.

[samikeyp]

I'm just saying that some fans would be all over him here for that. Is he gonna need surgery or just rest?

luckily, just rest.

[DarrinS]

There's something else going on about the hate on TD, though.

Let's take Shaq for example instead of Rasheed (who even Piston fans recognize is not the same caliber player that TD is).

Shaq wasn't called out for not having "heart" when he sat out two games of the playoffs. He hasn't been called soft, even though he's been beaten by these Pistons twice now.

So how come Tim's heart and toughness comes into question? Because our basketball culture is so fucked up. Piston fans are the one who should recognize this symptom more than anyone else.

If you don't have attitude like AI or KG, then you have no heart (even though they have won no Rings). If you don't hard foul everyone who comes near you like Karl Malone, you don't have toughness (even though Tim has 2 Rings to Karl's Zero).

If you play like a team, and have to sacrifice your own numbers for a win, then you are a Champion. Duncan does not need to have a triple-double and/or score 30+ points to be a Champion tonight. He just needs do his part.

No matter who wins, I don't see how you can question the Heart of any of these two Champion teams playing a Game 7 in the Finals. That's just wrong, and everyone here knows better.

Most intelligent thing I've read all day. This was the point I was REALLY trying to make. It wasn't to bag on Sheed. But I knew this would bring out the Piston fans and other Tim-haters.

[SouthernFried]

Duncan is playing AWESOME this series.

It's just those FT's are overshadowing everything else.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think he needs surgery, just a period of continous rest. The ankle sprain wasn't your run of the smill sprain, there was severe damage to the tissue around it. It looked ugly as hell weeks after it happend as if it wasn't getting better at all.

Still though, I know detroit has injuries as well. I'm not sure if any are as limiting as this, but thats the way the ball bounces and they've dealt with it.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

luckily, just rest.

Fuck you, you miserable piece of shit...

:lmao

[samikeyp]

nice. :)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tim is definitely a great player and among the best in the league.

But, I don't think it's "CERTAIN" that he's been the best player in this series. Chauncey Billups has been pretty good the whole series himself. Argue it all you want, but Chauncey has been at the very least AS GOOD as Duncan has been in this series.

Line 'em up and choose teams for game 7 and I'd bet Tim would still be the first choice.

[violentkitten]

more evidence piston fan smokes ass crack.

[wsdp]

Line 'em up and choose teams for game 7 and I'd bet Tim would still be the first choice.

Chauncey's automatic from free throw line - I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[violentkitten]

Chauncey's automatic from free throw line - I'd take him in a heartbeat.

even more.

[combs84]

Shaq wasn't bagged on because of his heart for sitting out against a team he didn't need to play against because it was the SMART thing to do. If you''re going to compare it to something compare it to D Wade sitting out in Game 6, I will always question his heart because of that now. Superstars don't sit out those kinds of games. If he could play in Game 7, he could have played in Game 6.

I don't question Tim's heart though, I question his agressiveness, they are 2 different things. He will NEVER NEVER be as dominant as Shaq is. He doesn't like Contact, and that really sucks due to the posiiton he plays.

The Difference is when we have depended on Sheed for a Big Game or a Big Shot, he has ALWAYS delivered for us. That is all we ask of him. Duncan is your so called "Superstar"...Sheed is our 3rd option. That is a difference. We can live with a 10Point output from Sheed, you can't live with that from Duncan.

[wsdp]

even more.


http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg http://img124.echo.cx/img124/2938/cattedited6jv.jpg

[Spurminator]

Shaq wasn't bagged on because of his heart for sitting out against a team he didn't need to play against because it was the SMART thing to do. If you''re going to compare it to something compare it to D Wade sitting out in Game 6, I will always question his heart because of that now. Superstars don not sit out those kinds of games. If he could play in Game 7, he could have played in Game 6.

I don't question Tim's heeart though, I question his agressiveness, they are 2 different things. He will NEVER NEVER be as dominant as Shaq is. He doesn't like Contact, and that really sucks due to the posiiton he plays.

The Difference is when we have depended on Sheed for a Big Game or a Big Shot, he has ALWAYS delivered for us. That is all we ask of him. Duncan is your so called "Superstar"...Sheed is our 3rd option. That is a difference. We can live with a 10Point output from Sheed, you can't live with that from Duncan.

Why wasn't Shaq's heart questioned for grabbing 7.5 rebounds per game in the series when he did play?

Fuck it... I just hope Duncan gets 40/20 tonight to erase all doubt.

[combs84]

Shaq destroyed us in every way possible, I watch the games, Duncan isn't anywhere close to doing that. Shaq scored at will, dished out to teammates for open threes and packed anything we brought into the lane. We had to double him to have any kind of chance of stopping him. Nobody questioned his heart because he straight up dominated us.

[Nikos]

Why wasn't Shaq's heart questioned for grabbing 7.5 rebounds per game in the series when he did play?

Fuck it... I just hope Duncan gets 40/20 tonight to erase all doubt.

Probably due to his injury?

[Spurminator]

But injuries aren't excuses. Seems to be the precedent.

[geerussell]

When it comes to "heart" it doesn't much matter at all what your statline is for the game or the series it's what you do when it matters most. Duncan has dissapeared in the clutch. I don't care if he puts up 50-30... if he's invisible in the last 5 mins and his team loses--no heart.

When he's not having a vanishing act he's having emotional "shrinkage" ... that scene of him sitting on the bench looking like he was going to cry while Pop consoled him was pathetic. Stuff like that is why people question his heart.

How about the way he seizes up on the freethrow line with the game in the balance? As charles barkley would say, you couldn't get a pen up his ass with a jackhammer. Bricklaying from the stripe with the game on the line: heartless.

Duncan has prodigal skill and will always put up gaudy, all-world numbers but in the end he lacks a certain something. Maybe it's heart, maybe it's something else. (http://aqlogic.com/enc/Invertebrate)

[Spurminator]

if he's invisible in the last 5 mins and his team loses--no heart.

Glad you qualified that, because it's all that really matters. If Duncan plays the same exact game in Game 6 and Detroit misses a few more shots... nobody questions Tim's heart. They talk about how he came out in attack mode and show replays of him taking it right to the basket against Rasheed in the fourth. Which is why it's all bullshit. It's an easy ESPN generation cop-out.

[MadDog73]

Rip has a bad calf, Prince an ankle that will require surgery and Ben bone spurs that will require surgery.


I'm sorry, but they way those 3 are moving, it can't be that serious.

Kind of like Manu's thigh contusion. I'm sure it's effecting his play a little, but not enough for an excuse.

And obviously, Tim's ankles can only be an excuse for this thing going to 7, because we're winning this tonight! :hat

[DarrinS]

Tim will silence all critics tonight.

Hey, will the Pistons hand over thier stupid WWF belts when they lose tonight?

Nevermind. The Spurs are too classy and mature to wear such BS trophy bling.

[modeleste]

I think both Sheed and Tim have as much heart as anyone in the league. It expresses itself differently-- Tim has the type of heart that allows one to be excellent game in and game out, Sheed the type that needs emotion-- a back to the wall game a tech (few people realize that the year he set the record for techs he promised he would in advance-- he knew the helped his play). Myself I think Sheed is by far the most important player on the world champs. They just wouldn't have the grit without him. Role player- not.

The stuff about Tim having heart is just silly-- he's in a battle with with people of similar ability and everyone is giving their all. If he loses the battle his heart won't be the reason. And the war will continue next year.

[geerussell]

Glad you qualified that, because it's all that really matters. If Duncan plays the same exact game in Game 6 and Detroit misses a few more shots... nobody questions Tim's heart. They talk about how he came out in attack mode and show replays of him taking it right to the basket against Rasheed in the fourth. Which is why it's all bullshit. It's an easy ESPN generation cop-out.

I qualified it because a win sweeps it under the rug. Look at game 5--Duncan shriveled up and died down the stretch but it was glossed over by Horry's bailout.

[MadDog73]

I qualified it because a win sweeps it under the rug. Look at game 5--Duncan shriveled up and died down the stretch but it was glossed over by Horry's bailout.


:cuss

Yeah, Tim had a bad fourth quarter. Kind of like the entire Piston team did in Game 1 and 2.

Fact: Spurs are never in a position to win Game 5, if Tim didn't have such a monster 28 pt, 19 reb. night. Horry may have save us late, but Tim was the one that kept us in the game to begin with.

[wsdp]

:cuss

Yeah, Tim had a bad fourth quarter. Kind of like the entire Piston team did in Game 1 and 2.

Fact: Spurs are never in a position to win Game 5, if Tim didn't have such a monster 28 pt, 19 reb. night. Horry may have save us late, but Tim was the one that kept us in the game to begin with.

Tim's had bad 4Q's in games 3-6 ... that's a trend, not an accident... I know it's tough for you to do with your Black and Silver glasses on, but for once credit the Pistons Defense - Wallaces and McDyess have swarmed him and he admitted as much in Press Conference following game 6.

[MadDog73]

I can't believe Piston fans have less respect for Duncan than they do for Shaq :cuss.

I just hope Ducan makes you all eat your words tonight. No better revenge than winning.

For the record, there's no way Tim can play Shaq style, because:

a) the refs would call offensive foul and Tim would foul out
b) i think Shaq has like 100 lbs on Tim?

And it's not like the Pistons are playing Tim one-on-one. Most times, one of the Wallaces comes to help, and that's when Tim gets hacked and/or stripped.

[violentkitten]

sheed's heart is not questioned because he has ink, wears a headband, and leads the league in techs.

[geerussell]

:cuss

Yeah, Tim had a bad fourth quarter. Kind of like the entire Piston team did in Game 1 and 2.

Fact: Spurs are never in a position to win Game 5, if Tim didn't have such a monster 28 pt, 19 reb. night. Horry may have save us late, but Tim was the one that kept us in the game to begin with.

You're losing sight of the point. Duncan puts up nice statlines and obviously all the contributions matter. The subject being discussed here is "heart" and that comes through in the clutch. Players who have it thrive on the pressure and those who don't shrink from it.

[Spurminator]

I know it's tough for you to do with your Black and Silver glasses on, but for once credit the Pistons Defense - Wallaces and McDyess have swarmed him and he admitted as much in Press Conference following game 6.

So then is it the Piston defense or Tim's heart?

Shit, I'm with you... What kind of numbers SHOULD Duncan put up against the Pistons??

But then your own fans undermine the Piston defense by blaming Duncan's below average clutch play on his Heart.

[modeleste]

I can't believe Piston fans have less respect for Duncan than they do for Shaq :cuss.

I just hope Ducan makes you all eat your words tonight. No better revenge than winning.


In my experience most Pistons fans have Much more respect for Duncan than Shaq. Tim is constantaly praised for his skill and personality. Shaq is praised for his big butt

[DarrinS]

Tim's had bad 4Q's in games 3-6 ... that's a trend, not an accident... I know it's tough for you to do with your Black and Silver glasses on, but for once credit the Pistons Defense - Wallaces and McDyess have swarmed him and he admitted as much in Press Conference following game 6.

In game 6, he didn't get the ball. He only had 14 attempts. Is that because he couldn't get position? Or because his teammates failed to get him the ball?

[Spurminator]

Well, if we've learned anything in this thread... Heart is defined by whether or not one's occasional failures are swept under the rug.

[MadDog73]

Tim's had bad 4Q's in games 3-6 ... that's a trend, not an accident... I know it's tough for you to do with your Black and Silver glasses on, but for once credit the Pistons Defense - Wallaces and McDyess have swarmed him and he admitted as much in Press Conference following game 6.

Tim didn't get the touches to have a bad 4th quarter in Game 6. Last I remember, he was the Spur who brought the score to a 1 pt. Piston lead.

But, yeah, the Pistons are doing as good a job as they can on Tim. He's still the 2nd leading scorer of the series :rolleyes

[MadDog73]

Do Piston fans seriously think the Heat was harder to beat than the Spurs?!?

Is that what you're saying here? If so, then what will be your excuse if you lose tonight? Injuries? :rolleyes

[geerussell]

The spurs are a much better team than the heat. Duncan is a better all around player than Shaq.

Shaq is a tougher competitor than Duncan... it's the heart thing again.


Well, if we've learned anything in this thread... Heart is defined by whether or not one's occasional failures are swept under the rug.

It's defined by stepping up in the clutch.

[Pistons_In_7]

Sheed does not want the spotlight or the pressure of being the star that carries his team,

I love sheed but i think he's a slacker and one of the biggest wastes of talent in an NBA player ive ever seen.

We all know how skilled he is but he is a pussy.

[MadDog73]

The spurs are a much better team than the heat. Duncan is a better all around player than Shaq.

Shaq is a tougher competitor than Duncan... it's the heart thing again.


I just don't see it (of course, I'm biased against Shaq). IMO, the league allows Shaq to play by different rules than the rest of the NBA. That's why no one can guard him. He just knocks you out of the way, and slams the ball down. If Shaq's on your team, you love it. If not, you hate him. I guess it's not his fault the NBA allows it.

Duncan has to actually use skill and brains to get points. The fact that he's doing it against the tremendous Piston Defense only shows he has great heart. Or is Detroit defense worse than we thought?

But let's look at the numbers: Tim has 2 rings, 2 MVPs to Shaq's 3 and 3. But Shaq looks old, slow. Tim will be around for years to come.

In the end, I think Tim's numbers will speak for themselves. I'm guessing tonight we'll see Game 5 Timmy (hopefully, sans the missed FTs).

[combs84]

I really thought the 2 best teams played each other in the Eastern Conference Finals, you can hate me for that but its just my opinion. Miami scared me much more then you guys did, even up 2-0.

I'm not hating, just what I have thought all year long.

[DarrinS]

I really thought the 2 best teams played each other in the Eastern Conference Finals, you can hate me for that but its just my opinion. Miami scared me much more then you guys did, even up 2-0.

I'm not hating, just what I have thought all year long.

If Wade and Shaq had been healthy, the Spurs would be playing the Heat right now. The fact that the Pistons were BARELY able to beat a broken down Heat is why so many people thought the Spurs would beat the Pistons easily. I'll admit this. The Pistons have improved their play in the finals, whereas the Spurs are not playing nearly as well as they did in the Western conf playoffs.

Do you HONESTLY think you've seen the best Spurs play in this series?

[modeleste]

I

Do you HONESTLY think you've seen the best Spurs play in this series?

Yes, or at least I hope so.

If the Spurs aren't able to show their best in a 7 game finals then they aren't great-- I prefer to think that they are

[geerussell]

If Wade and Shaq had been healthy, the Spurs would be playing the Heat right now. The fact that the Pistons were BARELY able to beat a broken down Heat is why so many people thought the Spurs would beat the Pistons easily. I'll admit this. The Pistons have improved their play in the finals, whereas the Spurs are not playing nearly as well as they did in the Western conf playoffs.


You got the facts right but missed the lesson. The pistons "barely" beat the heat and now have improved their play in the finals where they will "barely" beat the spurs because they tend to play to the level of their opposition.

[MadDog73]

I think part of the reason the Spurs have not played to their potential is the Piston defense.

But if the Pistons were hands down the better team, then the series would be over by now. Same with the Spurs.

You can't say that the Heat was better or the Suns were better, because they're not here. The two best teams in the NBA are playing a Finals game 7. The Playoffs don't get any closer than that.