Tonight, the first Spur ever has a chance to go from "Hall of Famer" to "Legend"

[BigShotBob]

Tim Duncan already has two Finals MVPs and is considered one of the best ever at his position but tonight is a make or break night for Duncan to be considered a legend. If Duncan puts the Spurs on his back, scores 40, and takes over the game Hakeem the Dream style, he'll forever be remembered with Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and other legends. Tonight is the night when a San Antonio Spur has a chance to cement himself as one of the top five players ever. Just my two cents. No pressure Timmy.

[violentkitten]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/asian.superpower/view.from.taipei/link.nixon.jpg

right on.

:makemyday

[Vashner]

David is in the top 50 don't forget...

[BigShotBob]

David is in the top 50 don't forget...

David is a Hall of Famer, not a legend. No knock on the Admiral, he's a legend to all loyal Spurs fans, but he's not considered in the same breath as Jordan or Magic. If Timmy has a game for the ages tonight in game seven, I think with three Finals MVPs, no one will ever be able to leave him out of the top five, not top fifty.

[Vashner]

DAVID is a legend in my book.... :pctoss
ARGH.. .bandwagoner...

[samikeyp]

every heard of a guy named George Gervin?

[BigShotBob]

DAVID is a legend in my book.... :pctoss
ARGH.. .bandwagoner...

Bandwagoner my @ss. I've been watching the Spurs for 20+ years. The Admiral is one of the best players ever, but he's not a legend like Jordan or Magic. I'm talking the best of the best, and Duncan will be the first Spur to ever put himself in that category, if he comes through big tonight.

[JamStone]

Tonight is the night when a San Antonio Spur has a chance to cement himself as one of the top five players ever.


Top 5 player ever?

Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul Jabbar


Just curious, if the Spurs win tonight, which four of those eight players would Tim Duncan supplant to be a top 5 player ever?

[BigShotBob]

every heard of a guy named George Gervin?

The Iceman has no rings. Another Hall of Famer, but not a legend.

[samikeyp]

If you have been watching the Spurs for 20+ years and don't realize that the Iceman is a hall of famer and a legend....you haven't been paying attention.

[easjer]

Or he could do it next year when they are back or pretty well anytime between now and 2010. . .

[BigShotBob]

Top 5 player ever?

Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul Jabbar


Just curious, if the Spurs win tonight, which four of those eight players would Tim Duncan supplant to be a top 5 player ever?

I'd definitely kick out Jerry West and Larry Bird. Oscar Robertson never won that many big ones. I'd probably keep Wilt, Jordan, Russell and Kareem with Tim Duncan challenging.

[SWC Bonfire]

Top 5 player ever?

Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul Jabbar


Just curious, if the Spurs win tonight, which four of those eight players would Tim Duncan supplant to be a top 5 player ever?

He could be added to that list you just made, and no one would see him out of place.

I got your point BSB, Tim could be a legend among the legends.

[BigShotBob]

If you have been watching the Spurs for 20+ years and don't realize that the Iceman is a hall of famer and a legend....you haven't been paying attention.

Iceman was a great player, so was Sir Charles, so was Patrick Ewing, so was the Mailman, the list goes on... but you have to win the big one if you're ever going to be considered the best.

[samikeyp]

The Iceman has no rings. Another Hall of Famer, but not a legend.

The NBA seems to think he is..but hey...what do they know?

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2005/legends_050422.html?rss=true

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Iceman is a legend. David should be.

This game will not make or break Tim's legendary status.

Tim will probably not score 40, but I wouldn't put a 20 point, 20 rebound night past him. Guard play will be as important as Tim scoring points, and more importantly will be stopping the Pistons.

[BigShotBob]

Once again, I'm not trying to take away from Ice or the Admiral. I don't make the rules. In all of sports (and you're just being a blind homer if you don't admit this) no one is considered one the greatest ever until they carry a team all the way to the title. It's not fair but it's the way it is. We can love as many former Spurs as long as we want but Duncan will never be considered an elite NBA legend in the same realm as Jordan or Russell unless he has a game seven for the ages tonight and collects his third NBA Finals MVP.

[samikeyp]

In all of sports (and you're just being a blind homer if you don't admit this) no one is considered one the greatest ever until they carry a team all the way to the title

Which of course explains the 10 players in the NBA's 50 Greatest Players who never won a title.

[SWC Bonfire]

Yall are talking about top 50, and BSB is talking about top 5. There's a lot of culling out of some damn good ballplayers to make that list.

[BigShotBob]

Which of course explains the 10 players in the NBA's 50 Greatest Players who never won a title.

I have not once been referring to the 50 Greatest Players, I am referring to the 10... or maybe even 5 greatest. The title of my thread is moving from Hall of Famer to Legend. I don't understand why you can't see what I'm talking about. Considering there are only about 100 players in the Hall of Fame, I would not term an elite legend the top 50. We're watching sports history tonight. If Duncan puts the team on his back, he is the kind of player who will never be forgotten when ESPN makes their next 50 Greatest Players list for all of sports. It's not just the 50 best in the NBA, Duncan will be one of the 50 best in ALL sports.

[samikeyp]

No, you said "one of the greatest"


In all of sports (and you're just being a blind homer if you don't admit this) no one is considered one the greatest ever until they carry a team all the way to the title

I would think that a member of the 50 Greatest would be "one of the greatest"

[BigShotBob]

Yall are talking about top 50, and BSB is talking about top 5. There's a lot of culling out of some damn good ballplayers to make that list.

Thank you sir. That is exactly what I'm talking about. I've never seen a Spur get that chance. This is exciting.

[BigShotBob]

No, you said "one of the greatest"



I would think that a member of the 50 Greatest would be "one of the greatest"

If you read my very first post, I wrote:

"Tonight is the night when a San Antonio Spur has a chance to cement himself as one of the top five players ever. "

I dont' see where you're getting this Top 50 stuff from.

[nkdlunch]

David is a Hall of Famer, not a legend. No knock on the Admiral, he's a legend to all loyal Spurs fans, but he's not considered in the same breath as Jordan or Magic. If Timmy has a game for the ages tonight in game seven, I think with three Finals MVPs, no one will ever be able to leave him out of the top five, not top fifty.

Dude, David is as true legend as they come. Damn, you sure u a Spurs fan??

[SWC Bonfire]

David is awesome as hell. But he didn't get the chance to be a Bill Russell.

[nkdlunch]

Okay, what is your definition of a Legend?

[BigShotBob]

Dude, David is as true legend as they come. Damn, you sure u a Spurs fan??

Yes I'm sure I'm a Spurs fan and I do not consider the Admiral the same caliber player as Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain. I think 90% of hoops fans would agree.

[samikeyp]

Yes I'm sure I'm a Spurs fan and I do not consider the Admiral the same caliber player as Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain. I think 90% of hoops fans would agree.

I do not consider Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain to be the caliber of person as the Admiral. I think 90% of hoops fans would agree.

Also, to be fair just because you don't think a Spur players is the best ever...doesn't make you less of a fan.

[dcole50]

i think some are misunderstanding bob. he's saying tim can move into that elite list of bird, magic, oscar, wilt, etc. david robinson is my favorite player of ALL TIME. he's not in that elite, group though. that group contains seven to nine players.

[samikeyp]

If you read my very first post, I wrote:

"Tonight is the night when a San Antonio Spur has a chance to cement himself as one of the top five players ever. "

I dont' see where you're getting this Top 50 stuff from.

yes you did...then you dropped your "you can't be one of the greatest if..." post.

so which one is it...top 5 or "one of the greatest" which could be any arbitrary number?

[50 & 21]

Damn samikeyp, why so antagonistic? I completely understand what Bob's saying, and I tend to agree with him. Duncan would be a cut above Robinson in a historical standpoint with a great victory tonight. :king

[dcole50]

I do not consider Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain to be the caliber of person as the Admiral. I think 90% of hoops fans would agree.

Also, to be fair just because you don't think a Spur players is the best ever...doesn't make you less of a fan.
i don't think anyone was debating the caliber of person/character of the player.

but (and, again, dave is my all time favorite. notice the 50 in my username) dave is not in the short conversation of the top 10 players of all time. tim can be.

[samikeyp]

its not a matter of being antagonistic...I just don't agree with a statement he made....isn't that what we do here, debate?

[samikeyp]

i don't think anyone was debating the caliber of person/character of the player.

but (and, again, dave is my all time favorite. notice the 50 in my username) dave is not in the short conversation of the top 10 players of all time. tim can be.

I agree with you, I was adding to his post...I was also sticking up for him about being a Spurs fan.

[50 & 21]

"so which one is it...top 5 or "one of the greatest" which could be any arbitrary number?"

I'm referring to this comment. I mean c'mon, surely you understand what Bob's trying to say!

[samikeyp]

It looked like in the course of the thread he changed his stance...I was asking for clarification. You accuse me of being antagonistic, then you talk down to me? Nice.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I'd definitely kick out Jerry West and Larry Bird. Oscar Robertson never won that many big ones. I'd probably keep Wilt, Jordan, Russell and Kareem with Tim Duncan challenging.

Jerry West maybe. No way can you kick out Bird and the Big O. Roberstson averaged close to a triple double in his first 5 seasons...

. PPG REBs Assists

1960-61 30.1 10.1 9.7
1961-62 30.8 12.5 11.4
1962-63 28.3 10.4 9.5
1963-64 31.4 9.9 11.0
1964-65 30.4 9.0 11.5

The Big O never will leave my top 5; rings are overrated IMO...

[SWC Bonfire]

It is hard to compare the old guys to the new guys.

[samikeyp]

It is hard to compare the old guys to the new guys.

that's true to. way too many variables.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It is hard to compare the old guys to the new guys.

True, but there has been only one guy to average those type of numbers for that long...

[SWC Bonfire]

True, but there has been only one guy to average those type of numbers for that long...

Well, I ain't gonna come up with some take that says that any of those guys don't belong on that list. A win tonight wouldn't give anybody ammo that Timmy shouldn't be up there, either.

[samikeyp]

Well, I ain't gonna come up with some take that says that any of those guys don't belong on that list. A win tonight wouldn't give anybody ammo that Timmy shouldn't be up there, either.

well said....let's get the win first! We have all summer to debate the point! :)

[50 & 21]

"It looked like in the course of the thread he changed his stance...I was asking for clarification. You accuse me of being antagonistic, then you talk down to me? Nice."

No, I'm not talking down to you at all. I figured that you fully understood what he was trying to say while acting like you didn't, thus being antagonistic. All better? Lets all go to Hooters!

[samikeyp]

I was never "not better" I just didn't agree with something he said. It was just a difference of opinion, it wasn't personal....why make it so? Bob and I have different definitions of what makes a legend. Doesn't make him wrong and me right or vice versa. Its just different.

[50 & 21]

Cool. Let's hope the Spurs win tonight, legend or no legend. I'll be at the Hooters in downtown Burbank. Meet us there.:drunk

[samikeyp]

Cool. Let's hope the Spurs win tonight, legend or no legend. I'll be at the Hooters in downtown Burbank. Meet us there

now that would be fun, especially if the Spurs win. celebrating in Laker land! :)

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

My top 5 is better than your top 5...

[50 & 21]

Only for the first half Mikey. The second half is special. I'll be at home with my girl. :smokin

[samikeyp]

Only for the first half Mikey. The second half is special. I'll be at home with my girl.

throw it down, big man! :)

[50 & 21]

I had to get lucky #50! --------------------------------------------------------------------------^

[whottt]

BSB's guide for Legend is highly subjective...

For instance...he excluded Ice from Legend Status on the basis of "no rings"...

David Robinson has rings...he's got more than Jerry West does...and Jerry West played with some pretty damn good players...that are in the top 5...unlike Tim Duncan(at least according to BSB).

On top of that...from now until the end of time an award with David's name on it will be given out every single month, and on that aware, the NBA itself calls him a legend...

And he has feats to back up his legendary status...

Just like Ted Williams was the last guy to hit 400?

David Robinson was the last guy to score 70 points in a game...ditto the quad double...

He did a lot more than just that though...

Pretty much...to be a legend it helps to play in Boston, New York, or LA...you know...the places where all the media is based. True hoopsfan knows Legends without the media telling him who they are.


Top 5? Ask 10 different people and you will get 10 different lists...there is no factually provable top 5.


Duncan will never have the status of the big market legends...even if he wins 10 titles in a row.

And Ice and Drob are both legends...Drob is growing into one and Ice has been one for a long time...