Snap Judgments on Each Player's Future

[timvp]

Tim Duncan
All in all, great season. The Spurs should hand him a blank contract and tell him to fill it out.

Manu Ginobili
Per-minute production-wise, Ginobili had a very good season. He still showed the ability to come up big in big games. Unfortunately, for the first time ever, he wasn't much of a positive difference-maker in the playoffs. That said, it's great to have him coming back another season.

Tony Parker
Memorable season. Played some of his best basketball ever. He needed to have one of the best postseason runs in NBA history for a point guard for the Spurs to win a championship. Didn't happen.

Stephen Jackson
He's obviously slowed down since 2003 but he still has his way with pressure and is a great teammate. It'll be a blast to root for him all of next season.

Kawhi Leonard
What a great rookie season. Simply amazing. Defense was really good in the playoffs. Offensively he proved to be a pressure shooter with budding all-around skills. It was a pleasure to watch him grow this season.

Tiago Splitter
I'm still pretty high on him. Yeah, he became a free throw liability once the pressure rose in the playoffs. Yeah, some flaws were outed by the Thunder (namely an inability to postup smaller players). Yeah, his defense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. All that said, considering it was basically his rookie season and considering how well he played at points this season, it's way, way too early to give up on him. Bring him back and try to iron out the kinks.

Danny Green
Bad ending but I like him as a player. He shot damn well for a long stretch of time. The Spurs should bring him back for his shooting ability alone. He shot blanks in the WCF but slumps happen to the best of shooters. Add in the fact that he's a capable of defender with some rough playmaking ability and there's a chance he turns into a top 20 shooting guard. Anything less than $2.5 million per year for him would be a major bargain.

Boris Diaw
I was pretty damn high on him until the Thunder series. Then OKC gave a blueprint on how to defend Diaw: Ignore him. If you don't defend him, he still won't shoot and you can defend 5-on-4 to close up his passing lanes. Maybe a full season with the Spurs would have helped him but I'm wary. He strikes me more as a rich-man Bonner than a playoff warrior you want to go to battle with. Then again, when it comes to stretch fours in the NBA, the pickings are slim. If you can re-sign Diaw for a reasonable rate, you probably gotta do it. But anything north of $3.5 million per season would make me think twice.

Gary Neal
His cheap salary makes it obvious that he needs to be brought back next season. That said, I don't know where he fits. The Spurs need to look for a real backup point guard. Neal can be the third point guard. What makes the most sense is to make him the third point guard and third shooting guard ... but he's probably too good for the role. If a team starved for shooting wants him in a trade, I'd listen.

DeJuan Blair
Blair, like Neal, is a no-brainer to bring back at his salary. He's not a very good fit on the roster but he's a guy who can eat a lot of regular season minutes at a reasonable level. In fact, putting him in the starting lineup for a stretch is a good way to keep stress off of Duncan's knees because Blair can assume the low post scoring role. Also like Neal, if a team calls inquiring about him in a trade, you don't hang up the phone.

Patrick Mills
If he wants to come back for his player option (which would pay him the minimum), that's a good contract for the Spurs. Is he good enough to be the full-time backup point guard? I'm not convinced but there's a definitely a chance. In fact, if both he and Neal return, I think Mills should be the backup point guard. If Mills wants to leave to try to score a better contract and opt out, I wish him well.

James Anderson
Goodbye.

Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.

[TimmehC]

James Anderson
Goodbye.

:lol


Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.
Couldn't agree more. If ever there were an amnesty candidate(especially with RJ gone), Matty B is it.

[DPG21920]

What about Pop's future IYO?

[silverblk mystix]

What about Pop?

[z0sa]

What about Pop's future

Continue being overrated.

Agree with all except Danny Green and to a lesser extent, Manu and Kawhi.

Green choked extremely hard and couldnt manage 8 minutes in the final 2 games. I'm indifferent to the dude at this point, especially considering his defense was subpar for long stretches as well as his offense being non-existent.

Manu I don't see how you can down him in any way. He played his heart out and producedwhen it mattered, without question.

Finally Kawhi, I love the dude but he always has a low/negative +/- and I'm not sure what his role ultimately will be moving forward. Basically, I can't make a snap judgment for him right now or any time soon.

[DPG21920]

Also, I think Tiago needs to be on the table. I am about as big of a Tiago fan as you will find, but I don't see him flourishing here. He definitely has the tools to flourish in the NBA, but I am not sure if that is here and I am not sure the time is now.

With his age and those factors in mind, if a team is pretty high on him and it can net you a solid draft pick I think the Spurs should listen (even if that means taking a step back from a contention standpoint in the next two years- but he was used sparingly anyways and the Spurs still got to the WCF.)

[Bruno]

Next season backup PG will be De Colo. If you read what his agent is saying, it's almost sure Spurs will sign him.

[Jumi]

I'm starting to sour on Pop as well.

[SA210]

RIP Blake

[Jumi]

This team needs something different.

[timvp]

Pop
Coach as long as Duncan is around and then figure it out from there. If the Spurs are a contender by some miracle, Pop could just keep coaching as long as he wants. If it's rebuilding, Pop can ride off into the sunset.

[cheguevara]

I'm glad ppl finally seeing the light on Bonner. El Che been preaching this for years.

kinda disappointed it takes so long to ppl realize what took El Che a few moments



Bonner is a NBDL caliber player playing prime NBA minutes. If someone does not see a problem there, they are in a pretty sad state themselves.



on the fact that every opponent that faces a Bonner 1-1 defense starts salivating and eyes light up. Then proceeds to break Bonner's ankles and 90% of the time results in points for their team.

on the fact that Bonner always looks over at Pop everytime he does something stupid which is 80% of the time.

on the fact when he faces a hand in his face while shooting 3s. His % drops to around 20%.



Bonner is known around the league as the guy who when is on the floor, you give the ball to whoever he is guarding. He makes basketball easy... for the opponent. This is a known fact which was made famous with Rasheed Wallace.

6 fucking years and this does not change.


I will stop hating on Bonner when he is gone from the team or chained to the bench. It's all on Pop's hands.


go back and watch the last 3 playoff runs. Bonner sucked in every single one of them.

Tell me 1 current spur player not named RJ that has sucked on a more consistent basis?

[DeadlyDynasty]

^
95% of this board has hated Bonner for years...way to go out on a limb there, champ:tu

[timtonymanu]

What do you think about Cory Joseph, timvp?

Otherwise, the only player that really HAS to go is Matt Bonner. Amnesty please. Anderson isn't gonna be brought back anyway either.

[timtonymanu]

95% of this board has hated Bonner for years...way to go out on a limb there, champ:tu

The last Richard Jefferson like player on the team. I don't care if the front office tells him a big "Fuck you!." I won't feel sorry for him and I want him gone.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm glad ppl finally seeing the light on Bonner. El Che been preaching this for years.

kinda disappointed it takes so long to ppl realize what took El Che a few moments


Too lazy to look for my quotes--but I'm right there with you regardin Bonner.

[cheguevara]

^
95% of this board has hated Bonner for years...way to go out on a limb there, champ:tu

not relevant.

I wanted him and RJ OFF THE FUCKING TEAM.(like what the OP is asking for now) Not even in practice or even in summer camp. Him and RJ are just bad fucking luck.

[DPG21920]

Timvp: Are there any bigs in this draft outside of Davis you are high on?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We need another legit big man.
Would like to bring diaw back, I think with a full training camp he will be more conformable shooting in spots

[doobs]

Neal and Blair should be traded IMO precisely because their contracts are "worth" bringing back. For many teams, their skills would be very valuable and a no-brainer at that price. For the Spurs, not so much. Trade them.

[DPG21920]

I guess where I am going with this is, is their a big man good enough in the lottery outside of Davis to put Kawhi on the table?

[Josepatches_]

ABout Tiago he should start with Duncan and he should play 25+ minutes per game.
If not we should trade him.

He's not a backup center.He never was. He played 2 years here.If he's not ready he never will be ready for Pop so we should explore options to trade him. He has value for sure.

[DarrinS]

DeJuan Blair
Blair, like Neal, is a no-brainer to bring back at his salary. He's not a very good fit on the roster but he's a guy who can eat a lot of regular season minutes at a reasonable level. In fact, putting him in the starting lineup for a stretch is a good way to keep stress off of Duncan's knees because Blair can assume the low post scoring role. Also like Neal, if a team calls inquiring about him in a trade, you don't hang up the phone.




Thought you were setting up a really good joke there.

[timvp]

Green choked extremely hard and couldnt manage 8 minutes in the final 2 games. I'm indifferent to the dude at this point, especially considering his defense was subpar for long stretches as well as his offense being non-existent.Green played how rookies usually play. Young players with no experience in the playoffs usually choke. That's just what happens.


Manu I don't see how you can down him in any way. He played his heart out and producedwhen it mattered, without question.He was pretty average to bad in half the games in the WCF. His Game 6 was pretty damn forgettable, tbh. I love Manu and thrilled he'll be back but it is somewhat sad that it's now undeniable that he no longer is a superstar level difference maker.

:td @ Father Time


Finally Kawhi, I love the dude but he always has a low/negative +/- Almost every rookie in history has poor plus/minus numbers. That's nothing to worry about.


Also, I think Tiago needs to be on the table. I am about as big of a Tiago fan as you will find, but I don't see him flourishing here. He definitely has the tools to flourish in the NBA, but I am not sure if that is here and I am not sure the time is now.

With his age and those factors in mind, if a team is pretty high on him and it can net you a solid draft pick I think the Spurs should listen (even if that means taking a step back from a contention standpoint in the next two years- but he was used sparingly anyways and the Spurs still got to the WCF.)Trading Splitter for a pick would be pretty damn dumb. As Duncan ages, the Spurs will need Splitter to grow into a larger and larger role.

If another team wants to give the Spurs a great deal, I'd listen. Otherwise he's too valuable to give away.


Next season backup PG will be De Colo. If you read what his agent is saying, it's almost sure Spurs will sign him.I've been following along but I was sticking with who was on the roster, tbh.

Speaking of Europe, who do you like between Diaw and Lorbek now if the money is equal? Until the Thunder series, I was leaning toward Diaw. Now I might have changed my mind.

[Jumi]

ABout Tiago he should start with Duncan and he should play 25+ minutes per game.
If not we should trade him.

He's not a backup center.He never was. He played 2 years here.If he's not ready he never will be ready for Pop so we should explore options to trade him. He has value for sure.
A team's gonna take him and he's gonna go all "Scola" on us!

[baseline bum]

I called for them to eat Bonner's contract and cut him the day after they signed his latest extension. I had also been calling for them to eat his previous contract and cut him. When the trade with Toronto was made I thought the Spurs lost bigtime even being able to jettison Nestrovich's ridiculous contract, and there is no time since where I wouldn't have wanted a trade-back. Bonner is the ultimate knife in the heart any time he gets on the floor, since he took Scola's fucking spot. :pctoss

[objective]

DUNCAN - fine, give him a deal, but let him know that the more he takes the harder it is to get better players around him.

MANU - he's no longer a consistent difference maker. What used to be a 'MANU-GAME' 9 out of 10 games, then 7 out of ten, then 3 out of 5, now is what, 2 out of 5? 1 out of 3? I love him. He might be my favorite Spur of all time. But he can't be counted on to bring it 4 times in a 7 game series anymore, and that's just the sad truth of time.

PARKER - had a good year. Not a top 4 point guard. That's not an attack, it's a league full of great points. But I'd rather have Westbrook, Rondo, healthy Rose, and Paul. Maybe Williams. Not good enough to win as the best player.

JACKSON - He came though. I will lose with Stephen Jackson any day. He gives a damn, and that might be what I value most in a Spur after so much Bonner and Jefferson the past two years.

LEONARD - LOVE HIM. Hope he improves his game and gets more touches in the offense next year. A bright spot.

SPLITTER - Time to trade him. I love him, he's been mis-used. But Pop has never respected his game and never will. Now he's in Pop's doghouse, and he's not getting out. Trade him to a team that will be smart enough to play him. Get someone that Pop will play. Veteran or draft pick, doesn't matter. Splitter is a walking Mahinmi at this point, let him go win his title.

GREEN - Qualifying Offer or bust. I could take him or leave him. He sure as hell isn't Jackson in 03, so they better not pay him better than what they offered Jackson back then. He's just a marginal NBA talent with decent size. Nothing special.

DIAW - I'm through with him. I'll take my chances with Lorbek over Diaw. He just puked up an awful game 6 and passed up shots all series. Nice guy. But he's a big game choker. Let's not forget, that he was invisible in game 6 for the Suns against the Spurs in 2007. He came back from his suspension and did jack all while the Suns went down. He just did it again here. He'll do it again if you let him.

NEAL - I'm through with him. Defense is too bad for his shooting to make up for (especially terrible, brick the Spurs into losing shooting). If he can be packaged in a trade, Great. Second rounder for Neal straight up? Count me in.

BLAIR - I'm through with him too. Him putting back on 40 pounds since his rookie year (per David Thorpe) shows how much he cares. He was too fat to even dunk for the first half of the year, and his fatness killed his only mealticket into the NBA in the first place, his rebounding. Package him in a trade, just finish him off already. Second rounder? Count me in. He's not helping the Spurs win with Duncan and I don't feel like watching him eat losses when the Spurs are a lotto team after Duncan.

MILLS - I want a defensive bulldog as a back-up to Parker, not a scoring streak shooter, or a bland unremarkable Joseph. It's why I wanted Shelvin Mack over Joseph, even if Mack isn't super.

ANDERSON - who cares

BONNER, THE PRINCE OF PLUS/MINUS - He's the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Desert Fever. He's probably the next GM unfortunately, and will re-make the Spurs into his own choking, awful image.

[cheguevara]

oh definitely Blair needs to be gone.

He's useless in the playoffs just like BOnner. And he still has some kind of value for trade. GONE.

[AFBlue]

Also, I think Tiago needs to be on the table. I am about as big of a Tiago fan as you will find, but I don't see him flourishing here. He definitely has the tools to flourish in the NBA, but I am not sure if that is here and I am not sure the time is now.

With his age and those factors in mind, if a team is pretty high on him and it can net you a solid draft pick I think the Spurs should listen (even if that means taking a step back from a contention standpoint in the next two years- but he was used sparingly anyways and the Spurs still got to the WCF.)

I think they need to hold onto Splitter and look to re-sign him at the end of his current contract. Duncan found the fountain of youth during that amazing stretch, but I honestly don't know if he has more than a year left of high-mpg basketball. After next year, Splitter would be a natural fit to take the starting center role.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We should trade Bonner for a late draft pick if possible

This draft is deep and we only have the last pick of the 2nd round :pctoss

[timvp]

What do you think about Cory Joseph, timvp?

Cory Joseph
Summer league will be huge for him. If he doesn't at least show some potential, I'd be shocked if the Spurs pick up his option. His play in the NBA and in the D-League was about as bad as could be imagined out of a first round pick.

[z0sa]

Green played how rookies usually play. Young players with no experience in the playoffs usually choke. That's just what happens.

Meh, it wasn't just his shooting. His entire game went down the drain. That said, I wouldn't mind him back. I'm just indifferent. TBH at this point it's hard for me to make any kind of judgment because I'm not sure what the Spurs' MO is. Do they come back strong and look to win another like nothing happened? Do they blow it up? Does Tim retire, etc


He was pretty average to bad in half the games in the WCF.

34/7/6 in Game 5 is what I keep coming back to mentally. He played good enough for the Spurs to win the most important game of the series, and he played very well in both of our wins. Manu made this team go. His will to win almost singlehandedly overpowered OKC runs time and time again.


Almost every rookie in history has poor plus/minus numbers. That's nothing to worry about.

But he played well, hell improved himself every night, which is what concerns me. The numbers seem to be a strange anomaly if you take away the fact he's a rookie.

[timvp]

PARKER -I'd rather have Westbrook

:smchode:

If the Thunder had Parker and the Spurs had Westbrook, the Thunder would have swept the Spurs worse than the 2001 Lakers. Westbrook's sometimes airheaded play is the only thing that allows the Thunder to be even slightly beatable at this point.

[DPG21920]

Trading Splitter for a pick would be pretty damn dumb. As Duncan ages, the Spurs will need Splitter to grow into a larger and larger role.

If another team wants to give the Spurs a great deal, I'd listen. Otherwise he's too valuable to give away.
.

Splitter and Tim aren't going to play together it seems. Tiago still has some overall question marks about his game. I was talking more along the lines of the Hill trade where if he can net you a pick 15 or higher, that's not a bad option.

I guess my thoughts are what is the goal. If Tim plays two more years, that puts Tiago at 29/30 and what is his ceiling to help if the Spurs got the WCF without him playing much and when Tim and him won't see much time together?

I get that he needs to grow into a larger role, but that was my original point, I don't know if he can flourish here because of circumstance (Pop, injuries, Duncan...).

[Jumi]

Kawhi is the future. I'm not saying he's the franchise piece, but he's Silver and Black. The rest will work itself out. That rookie played huge! There's no way in hell you get rid of that with all the veteran tank jobs we saw in this series! NO WAY!

[Bruno]

Speaking of Europe, who do you like between Diaw and Lorbek now if the money is equal? Until the Thunder series, I was leaning toward Diaw. Now I might have changed my mind.

In a perfect world, I would like Spurs to get both. If it's not possible, Spurs should go with Lorbek. Lorbek is a risky move because it's not sure he will make the transition to the NBA but he has bigger upside. At that stage and with Duncan and Ginobili decline, Spurs have to take some risks.

[cheguevara]

:smchode:

If the Thunder had Parker and the Spurs had Westbrook, the Thunder would have swept the Spurs worse than the 2001 Lakers. Westbrook's sometimes airheaded play is the only thing that allows the Thunder to be even slightly beatable at this point.

Fail. Westbrook might be a chuker and bonehead sometimes, but he is the engine that powers OKC, same as Parker and Spurs. Him and Parker do cancel each other out but neither is more "bonehead" than the other.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Fail. Westbrook might be a chuker and bonehead sometimes, but he is the engine that powers OKC, same as Parker and Spurs. Him and Parker do cancel each other out but neither is more "bonehead" than the other.

lolwut?:lmao

LJ hit the nail on the head with his previous post. Switch PG's and that would've been 2001 Lakers-Spurs on crack.

[DPG21920]

Also, my point about Tiago is value. We all know he has talent. This is like Hill. You have to give something up to get something back of value. Right now in looking at everything we have, Tiago is the only that fits the mold of valuable and expendable due to age, role and situation.

[cheguevara]

lolwut?:lmao

LJ hit the nail on the head with his previous post. Switch PG's and that would've been 2001 Lakers-Spurs on crack.

wrong. Westbrook plays like that by design. WB/Durant = Fire/Ice. He is the engine of OKC and the #2 reason why they are in the NBA Finals.

[objective]

Considering their ages and games, I'll take Westbrook and not even feel bad.

-------

Give me Lorbek and De Colo, and I don't even like those two.

And I don't care how Quixote-ish I sound. I want Viktor Sanikidze. I want players who play with emotion, I want players who have passion, I want players who give a damn. Guys like Manu and Jackson. They make the Spurs worth watching, not guys like Bonner. I love Leonard who doesn't show you with his expressions, but does with his game and effort.

A pointless dream, I know. He's a mediocre 3-point shooter and with other questionable aspects to his game. But he was an MVP finalist for the Italian League, rebounds, and plays like he cares.

[timvp]

Fail. Westbrook might be a chuker and bonehead sometimes, but he is the engine that powers OKC, same as Parker and Spurs. Him and Parker do cancel each other out but neither is more "bonehead" than the other.

:lol Manu Fan would literally travel to America to murder Westbrook if he was the Spurs point guard.

[DeadlyDynasty]

wrong. Westbrook plays like that by design. WB/Durant = Fire/Ice. He is the engine of OKC and the #2 reason why they are in the NBA Finals.

Oh...so he plays like a retard in the 4th quarter by design?


Damn, what a crafty motherfucker

[cheguevara]

:lol Manu Fan would literally travel to America to murder Westbrook if he was the Spurs point guard.

:lmao only reason WB would fail in San Antonio is because Spurs gameplan and Pop.

Westbrook = Parker

trying to say Westbrook's game is more hurtful to X team than Parkers is homerism to the nth level :lmao

:lmao This one hurts

[DPG21920]

Side note:Spurs meeting with Andre Drummond. Not that it means anything obviously, just due dilligence.

[Mugen]

Oh...so he plays like a retard in the 4th quarter by design?


Damn, what a crafty motherfucker

:lol

[Richie]

wrong. Westbrook plays like that by design. WB/Durant = Fire/Ice. He is the engine of OKC and the #2 reason why they are in the NBA Finals.

Wrong. If anything he's #4 after Durant, Harden, Ibaka/Perkins great defensive frontline, then Westbrook. They maxed him out and they are going to regret it when they can't pay both Harden and Ibaka

[cheguevara]

Wrong. If anything he's #4 after Durant, Harden, Ibaka/Perkins great defensive frontline, then Westbrook. They maxed him out and they are going to regret it when they can't pay both Harden and Ibaka

you must have missed round 1 and 2

[Jumi]

Considering their ages and games, I'll take Westbrook and not even feel bad.

-------

Give me Lorbek and De Colo, and I don't even like those two.

And I don't care how Quixote-ish I sound. I want Viktor Sanikidze. I want players who play with emotion, I want players who have passion, I want players who give a damn. Guys like Manu and Jackson. They make the Spurs worth watching, not guys like Bonner. I love Leonard who doesn't show you with his expressions, but does with his game and effort.

A pointless dream, I know. He's a mediocre 3-point shooter and with other questionable aspects to his game. But he was an MVP finalist for the Italian League, rebounds, and plays like he cares.
My thoughts exactly! I want a team that actually hurts inside when they lose, so they leave everything on the floor! If the shot is off, they play hard defense! They high five when they make a good play and show desire to be the best! Duncan and Kawhi have inner fire! Manu and Jax have outer passion. TP is French so he gets a pass because he does bring it. The rest gotta seek employment elsewhere! I'm done believing, I want results!!

[cheguevara]

My thoughts exactly! I want a team that actually hurts inside when they lose, so they leave everything on the floor! If the shot is off, they play hard defense! They high five when they make a good play and show desire to be the best! Duncan and Kawhi have inner fire! Manu and Jax have outer passion. TP is French so he gets a pass because he does bring it. The rest gotta seek employment elsewhere! I'm done believing, I want results!!

:tu "the engine"

"fire + ice"

good combination tbh

[AFBlue]

At age 23 and just completing his third NBA season, is it too early to say DeJuan Blair is a complete product? I get the "bad fit" label mostly because DeJuan doesn't have the perimeter game to space the defense and he's a liability at center. But, is it possible he develops into a competent enough shooter from 12-15ft (a la Fabricio Oberto) to keep the defense honest?

I just see a kid with a lot of fire/intensity, who has seemingly matured professionally and I think there's a spot for him on this team. I understand listening to offers, but I hope he gets a chance to play out his contract.

That is, unless the return is an athletic shot-blocking big or athletic playmaking guard.

[tesseractive]

Boris Diaw
I was pretty damn high on him until the Thunder series. Then OKC gave a blueprint on how to defend Diaw: Ignore him. If you don't defend him, he still won't shoot and you can defend 5-on-4 to close up his passing lanes. Maybe a full season with the Spurs would have helped him but I'm wary. He strikes me more as a rich-man Bonner than a playoff warrior you want to go to battle with. Then again, when it comes to stretch fours in the NBA, the pickings are slim. If you can re-sign Diaw for a reasonable rate, you probably gotta do it. But anything north of $3.5 million per season would make me think twice.
If this is in any way a realistic contract figure, it means we could try to split the MLE between Diaw and Lorbek (and bring in De Colo on the biannual exception), which would be fantastic.

If we could trade Bonner for a second round pick somehow (as opposed to having to amnesty him, buy out his contract, or basically pay another team to take him), I would be thrilled.

That would give us:

C: Duncan, Splitter, Blair
PF: Diaw, Lorbek
SF: Leonard, Jackson
SG: Green, Ginobili, Neal
PG: Parker, De Colo, possibly Mills

With Joseph in Austin for another year, and Byars having summer league and camp to convince the team to extend him a contract and try to develop him.

The net result is a lot like this year, but with possible solutions plugged in for our two biggest problems: Matt Bonner, and the lack of a backup at the point.

Beyond that basic structure, if there's a guy we like, I still like the idea of possibly trading Tiago to try to get into the middle of the first round. Arnett Moultrie, for example, is fantastically athletic. If we thought we could coach some defense into him and help him develop a midrange jumper and/or some post moves, he could give us a much higher ceiling than Tiago ever will.

[Mugen]

I don't see a realistic scenario where trading Tiago makes sense.

Big 3/Jax/Kawhi/Tiago should be locks to come back. Everyone else is fair game.

You dangle Matty in front of Golden State and try to convince them that one faggy Wonder Twin is useless without the other.

[SenorSpur]

Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.

I can remember as recently as 2 seasons ago getting into discussions with some posters who wanted to defend Bonner vociferously. I'm so glad that folks are now buying into what I, and some others on this board, have been saying about Bonner all along. Unlike Horry, who could do a bit of everything and demonstrated supreme confidence under pressure, Bonner has been the exact opposite. He's been a one-trick pony, who even chokes during some high-pressure regular season games. Now, he's firmly sealed his reputation as a perennial playoff choker. The sooner he's off the roster, the better off the Spurs will be. What the Spurs were thinking when they gave him the extension last summer, is beyond my comprehension.

[Richie]

C: Duncan, Splitter, Blair
PF: Diaw, Lorbek
SF: Leonard, Jackson
SG: Green, Ginobili, Neal
PG: Parker, De Colo, possibly Mills

That team is still no better defensively than we are now. Lorbek blocks and rebounds at a Bonner-esque level, we need someone long and athletic who can give our frontline some defensive presence

[timvp]

As it was, Westbrook was the Spurs best defender in this series. Literally the only times the Spurs got a big stop was when Westbrook did something stupid. Thankfully that happened about 10% of the time.

If you're saying you want 23-year-old Westbrook over a 30-year-old Parker, I guess that's reasonable. But for this year and next year, Parker is easily the better player.

Once Westbrook figures out how to actually play the game, the Thunder will be pretty much unbeatable, tbh.

[coyotes_geek]

If the Spurs don't want to pay Blair next offseason (and they shouldn't) then they need to move Blair in this offseason.

[tesseractive]

In a perfect world, I would like Spurs to get both. If it's not possible, Spurs should go with Lorbek. Lorbek is a risky move because it's not sure he will make the transition to the NBA but he has bigger upside. At that stage and with Duncan and Ginobili decline, Spurs have to take some risks.
What is Lorbek's upside, in your view?

My (purely second-hand) impression was that his defensive ability was more Matt Bonner than Boris Diaw, and his offense was as a taller Matt Bonner with some post moves.

Is that mistaken, or is that approximately right, but you still see it as a net improvement over Diaw because of Diaw's disastrous tendency to pass up the shot?

[timvp]

:lmao only reason WB would fail in San Antonio is because Spurs gameplan and Pop.

Westbrook = Parker

trying to say Westbrook's game is more hurtful to X team than Parkers is homerism to the nth level :lmao

:lmao This one hurts

:lol Manu only fan dismissing Parker like it's a novel thing to do

:lol Manu only fan thinking he's the only Spurs fan who doesn't like Bonner

[timtonymanu]

I don't see a realistic scenario where trading Tiago makes sense.

Big 3/Jax/Kawhi/Tiago should be locks to come back. Everyone else is fair game.

You dangle Matty in front of Golden State and try to convince him that one faggy Wonder Twin is useless without the other.

Agreed.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs don't want to pay Blair next offseason (and they shouldn't) then they need to move Blair in this offseason.

Agreed. It will be tough to have a young guy around that you don't want to pay just to absorb minutes then dump for nothing because you don't want to pay him.

If they get an offer that is reasonable, I have no issues about them making a financial move like they did with Hill even though I like Blair and he won't fetch nearly as much as GH3.

[Richie]

As it was, Westbrook was the Spurs best defender in this series. Literally the only times the Spurs got a big stop was when Westbrook did something stupid. Thankfully that happened about 10% of the time.

If you're saying you want 23-year-old Westbrook over a 30-year-old Parker, I guess that's reasonable. But for this year and next year, Parker is easily the better player.

Once Westbrook figures out how to actually play the game, the Thunder will be pretty much unbeatable, tbh.

That would be true, except in a years time Ibaka and Harden both become restricted free agents. Harden will get a max offer, and looking at what DeAndre Jordan got I wouldn't be surprised to see Ibaka get one too.

Unless they want a Laker-esque payroll, they are perhaps never going to be better than they are this year and next

[tesseractive]

That team is still no better defensively than we are now. Lorbek blocks and rebounds at a Bonner-esque level, we need someone long and athletic who can give our frontline some defensive presence

Don't disagree. Which is why I suggested trading Tiago later in the same post. I'd absolutely love to bring in someone athletic who we think we could be a better defender.

But even returning a roughly equivalent defensive team with some possible improvements on offense is still not such a terrible thing for a team with a .758 winning percentage. Keep developing our younger players, keep playing at a fairly high level, keep looking for an opportunity to make a strong move to improve the team.

[Trill Clinton]

soon as I get some info on who will and won't be with the team next season the ST fam will be first to know.

[DPG21920]

We need someone who can play next to Tim. If we can't get that, than IMO, if you get an offer for a top 15 pick, you take it, get some youth and hope that you land another Kawhi-type player.

Not saying that you force a Tiago trade; I agree he's much too valuable. I am saying that he should be on the table a little more than Timvp appeared to let on IMO.

[DPG21920]

soon as I get some info on who will and won't be with the team next season the ST fam will be first to know.

Except for the honky's.

[mavs>spurs]

Yikes, this thread was painful to read with DPG chiming in every other post begging for attention in yet another timvp thread. Talk about overly opinionated..

We get it, you think you're the spurs expert. Even after you were wrong and couldn't find the courage to own up to it.


That said, I agree with everything in the OP except maybe signing patty mills. The spurs strategy of competing while always on the look out for young players and key acquisitions has proven to pay off. Your scouting has been amazing, from ginobili and parker to leonard and green. That's the difference between the spurs and mavs FO, while Cuban tries to buy a winning team the spurs quietly surrounded their aging core with the young additions of Green, Leonard, Blair, Neal, Splitter, and also made good free agent acquisitions in Diaw and Jackson. I wish our FO was as competent as you guys, the job they have done over the years is nothing short of amazing.

[ChumpDumper]

We need someone who can play next to Tim. If we can't get that, than IMO, if you get an offer for a top 15 pick, you take it, get some youth and hope that you land another Kawhi-type player.Doubt that would be offered for Tiago.

[tesseractive]

I don't see a realistic scenario where trading Tiago makes sense.

Big 3/Jax/Kawhi/Tiago should be locks to come back. Everyone else is fair game.

You dangle Matty in front of Golden State and try to convince him that one faggy Wonder Twin is useless without the other.

What has Tiago done that's made him untouchable?

I wouldn't want to trade him for the sake of trading him, but I think he's one of the few assets we have with some real trade value, so if we think we can get someone better back, we should do it.

[Trill Clinton]

Except for the honky's.
I'm off that nonsense bruh. just got bored and decided to go back n forth. no hard feelings?

[timtonymanu]

That said, I agree with everything in the OP except maybe signing patty mills. The spurs strategy of competing while always on the look out for young players has proven to pay off. That's the difference between the spurs and mavs FO, while Cuban tries to buy a winning team the spurs quietly surrounded their aging core with the young additions of Green, Leonard, Blair, Neal, Splitter, and also made good free agent acquisitions in Diaw and Jackson. I wish our FO was as competent as you guys, the job they have done over the years is nothing short of amazing.

At least you guys rang recently.

Spurs haven't won a title since I was in high school. :depressed

[DeadlyDynasty]

We need someone who can play next to Tim.

He's got 2 years left at the MOST.

[timvp]

We need someone who can play next to Tim. If we can't get that, than IMO, if you get an offer for a top 15 pick, you take it, get some youth and hope that you land another Kawhi-type player.

Not saying that you force a Tiago trade; I agree he's much too valuable. I am saying that he should be on the table a little more than Timvp appeared to let on IMO.
I wouldn't trade Tiago unless the Spurs get back a top ten pick, tbh. Competent centers are extremely valuable. Even if Pop "hates" Splitter, having Splitter on the team makes it easy to keep Duncan's minutes in check during the regular season. You trade him and don't replace him with a similar player and Duncan's aging process speeds up.

[DPG21920]

:lol I never had them. Ive been a Trill fan for a minute...

[DPG21920]

He's got 2 years left at the MOST.

Tiago will be 30 then and if he is as injury prone as some believe, that's an issue.

[tesseractive]

Doubt that would be offered for Tiago.

Why?

He seems like a superior backup center who could be a workable starter for teams that run the pick and roll, so it doesn't seem crazy that he's worth roughly what George Hill was last year. All we would need is to find a GM with a hole in the middle who doesn't want to try to develop a prospect.

Am I missing something?

[Mugen]

What has Tiago done that's made him untouchable?

I wouldn't want to trade him for the sake of trading him, but I think he's one of the few assets we have with some real trade value, so if we think we can get someone better back, we should do it.

I don't think we can get someone better back. At least not somebody who's better while Tim is here.

I think we see more TD & Tiago together next year as well. Nothing concrete to back it up, just a feeling.

[DPG21920]

Doubt that would be offered for Tiago.

Just because of age or a combo of that and other factors (such as this draft being "deeper" than normal)?

If Hill nets you a 15 pick, do you not think Tiago is viewed around the league as more valuable (big man, pretty skilled overall)? I don't disagree with you and in thinking about it, it's hard to imagine Spurs getting the value they would want in order to part with him.

[Mugen]

Rookies like Kawhi don't come along very often.

I doubt the Spurs strike gold like that two years in a row to justify a Tiago trade.

[mavs>spurs]

Just because of age or a combo of that and other factors (such as this draft being "deeper" than normal)?

If Hill nets you a 15 pick, do you not think Tiago is viewed around the league as more valuable (big man, pretty skilled overall)? I don't disagree with you and in thinking about it, it's hard to imagine Spurs getting the value they would want in order to part with him.

This years draft class is much, much deeper than last..a pick in this draft is going to be much more valuable than the 15 pick you got last year. Do you think before you post?

[sananspursfan21]

Too bad about bonner in the playoffs, through all the bonner hate i was beginning to warm up to the guy. Oh well peace out matty

[Richie]

I wouldn't trade Tiago unless the Spurs get back a top ten pick, tbh. Competent centers are extremely valuable. Even if Pop "hates" Splitter, having Splitter on the team makes it easy to keep Duncan's minutes in check during the regular season. You trade him and don't replace him with a similar player and Duncan's aging process speeds up.

This draft is stacked with big men. One or more of Meyers Leonard, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Arnett Moultrie will be outside the top 10. If we can package Tiago with Neal for one them we should do it. Maybe it will turn out to be a bad move, but both Tim and the Spurs need to put some defence on the front line

[DPG21920]

This years draft class is much, much deeper than last..a pick in this draft is going to be much more valuable than the 15 pick you got last year. Do you think before you post?

What is more valuble - tweener guards or legit competent centers?

[Richie]

Rookies like Kawhi don't come along very often.

I doubt the Spurs strike gold like that two years in a row to justify a Tiago trade.

Agreed, but we gotta trust the front office. Hopefully if they see someone they like, they will be willing to trade for him.

[ChumpDumper]

Why?

He seems like a superior backup center who could be a workable starter for teams that run the pick and roll, so it doesn't seem crazy that he's worth roughly what George Hill was last year. All we would need is to find a GM with a hole in the middle who doesn't want to try to develop a prospect.

Am I missing something?I'm not sure he's superior at this point.


Just because of age or a combo of that and other factors (such as this draft being "deeper" than normal)?

If Hill nets you a 15 pick, do you not think Tiago is viewed around the league as more valuable (big man, pretty skilled overall)? I don't disagree with you and in thinking about it, it's hard to imagine Spurs getting the value they would want in order to part with him.I'm not sure the consensus among GMs is "pretty skilled overall." He's a decent defender (if a flopper) and almost less than one dimensional on offense.

Hill seemed to be wanted pretty specifically by Bird and he paid the price to get him. There could be someone who feels the same about Splitter, but I can't think of any right now. He doesn't seem to have Orlando Gortat-like status at this point, but I could certainly be wrong.

[Mugen]

This draft is stacked with big men. One or more of Meyers Leonard, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Arnett Moultrie will be outside the top 10. If we can package Tiago with Neal for one them we should do it

By the time any of those guys can contribute on the same level as Tiago, Tim & Manu are out of the league.

People need to realize that there's a bigger learning curve for bigmen than swingmen.

When's the last time a big drafted in the mid-1st became an immediate contributor as a rookie or even in his 2nd season?

Kantor was drafted top 5 and he's still a couple of years away from being serviceable.

[DPG21920]

Rookies like Kawhi don't come along very often.

I doubt the Spurs strike gold like that two years in a row to justify a Tiago trade.

Agreed on that point for sure, but with a team like the Spurs that is trying to balance contending with rebuilding, you have to take some swings.

I obviously was assuming that they get a good offer and a guy they really like is there (I trust the Spurs FO when it comes to drafting). In that scenario, that is when I believe Tiago should at least be avaible, not to give away, but in a Kawhi type situation (top 15 pick that the Spurs are actually high on).

If Tiago is going to be entrusted with an expanding role, including a decent amount of minutes next to Tim, this is moot. If he isn't injury prone and is expected to be very healthy, same thing. That's the two things I question.

[mavs>spurs]

What is more valuble - tweener guards or legit competent centers?

Competent centers of course..relatively speaking. But only if that center can hit free throws and not shrivel up in the playoffs, you know becoming a liability for his team.

I agree with chump, no way is 27 year old Tiago Splitter, after this playoff showing, netting you a top 15 pick in a draft stacked with 20-22 year old big men.

[Bruno]

What is Lorbek's upside, in your view?

My (purely second-hand) impression was that his defensive ability was more Matt Bonner than Boris Diaw, and his offense was as a taller Matt Bonner with some post moves.

Lorbek is an awfully skilled bigman. He has the whole package on the offensive end. The knock on him is a big lack of athleticism but it's doesn't really mean he will be as bad defensively as Bonner. He certainly isn't a strong defender in Europe but he isn't a liability either.

[DPG21920]

I'm not sure he's superior at this point.

I'm not sure the consensus among GMs is "pretty skilled overall." He's a decent defender (if a flopper) and almost less than one dimensional on offense.

Hill seemed to be wanted pretty specifically by Bird and he paid the price to get him. There could be someone who feels the same about Splitter, but I can't think of any right now. He doesn't seem to have Orlando Gortat-like status at this point, but I could certainly be wrong.

Fair point, and since I have been one of the bigger Tiago supporters (still am), maybe my perception of his value is skewed.

In ranking my desires, it's that Tiago stays with the team and is entrusted with an expanded role which includes time next to Tim. I am really just speaking to the point that if that is not in the cards, due to the questionmarks in his game you mentioned, his age and a perception of injury, he should be decently available in a high draft pick sceanrio trade.

[DPG21920]

Lorbek is an awfully skilled bigman. He has the whole package on the offensive end. The knock on him is a big lack of athleticism but it's doesn't really mean he will be as bad defensively as Bonner. He certainly isn't a strong defender in Europe but he isn't a liability either.

In your opinion, is he a better fit to start and play quality minutes next to Tim than Tiago?

[mavs>spurs]

Fair point, and since I have been one of the bigger Tiago supporters (still am), maybe my perception of his value is skewed.

maybe

[sananspursfan21]

Lorbek is an awfully skilled bigman. He has the whole package on the offensive end. The knock on him is a big lack of athleticism but it's doesn't really mean he will be as bad defensively as Bonner. He certainly isn't a strong defender in Europe but he isn't a liability either.

But of course lack of athleticism isnt near the worry for a big man as is a pg or wing, so he sounds great to me

[Richie]

By the time any of those guys can contribute on the same level as Tiago, Tim & Manu are out of the league.

People need to realize that there's a bigger learning curve for bigmen than swingmen.

When's the last time a big drafted in the mid-1st became an immediate contributor as a rookie or even in his 2nd season?

Kantor was drafted top 5 and he's still a couple of years away from being serviceable.

Tiago isn't a great defender, and when Tim is off the floor we struggle mightily to defend the paint. If one of the guys I mentioned can just improve our interior D with some shot blocking I think it could be worth it.

I trust the Spurs FO to make the right decision. If Tiago, Neal and Blair and still here next season then obviously none of the players they could trade up to get would have made us any better

[Bruno]

The main issue with Splitter is that he will be a free agent next summer and he could get a big offer that Spurs don't want to match. I want Spurs to keep him because I think Splitter is a damn good player but trading him woudl be the right move if Spurs aren't ready to commit a lot of money on him.

[pad300]

Neal and Blair should be traded IMO precisely because their contracts are "worth" bringing back. For many teams, their skills would be very valuable and a no-brainer at that price. For the Spurs, not so much. Trade them.

Yeah, them + Bonner gives about 7 million in room to take back salary. That might be able to get us something decent on an S&T (Illyasova, please).





Agree with all except Danny Green and to a lesser extent, Manu and Kawhi.

Green choked extremely hard and couldnt manage 8 minutes in the final 2 games. I'm indifferent to the dude at this point, especially considering his defense was subpar for long stretches as well as his offense being non-existent.



Green will be back for sure. He's been good except for the WCF. The WCF will drive down his price, and he likes being on this team. We have his early bird rights - we aren't going to burn some of our MLE/LLE to replace him.


I guess where I am going with this is, is their a big man good enough in the lottery outside of Davis to put Kawhi on the table?

No.


In a perfect world, I would like Spurs to get both. If it's not possible, Spurs should go with Lorbek. Lorbek is a risky move because it's not sure he will make the transition to the NBA but he has bigger upside. At that stage and with Duncan and Ginobili decline, Spurs have to take some risks.

I think the Spurs might be able to get both Lorbek and Diaw. I can't see Diaw getting a big offer from some other team with his history, age, and known flaws so vividly illustrated in the WCF. IIRC the MLE is 5 Million Lorbek at 9 Million/3years and Diaw at 6 Million/3 years...

[Sean Cagney]

Finally Kawhi, I love the dude but he always has a low/negative +/- and I'm not sure what his role ultimately will be moving forward. Basically, I can't make a snap judgment for him right now or any time soon.

I don't put much of anything into that +/- stuff, case in point BONNERS high one alot of times and this here above. Leonard was a stud.

[DPG21920]

The main issue with Splitter is that he will be a free agent next summer and he could get a big offer that Spurs don't want to match. I want Spurs to keep him because I think Splitter is a damn good player but trading him woudl be the right move if Spurs aren't ready to commit a lot of money on him.

Its the Hill trade mentality - Do you have a player that is cheaper (or depth) where you can afford to give up one of your talented players to take a chance because you don't want to pay the money they likely will command.

Blair is the same situation (although less money than Hill or Tiago would likely command).

If the Spurs can get Lorbek for 2-3 years at a reasonable rate and maybe resign Boris, do they feel that is enough?

[Mugen]

Agreed on that point for sure, but with a team like the Spurs that is trying to balance contending with rebuilding, you have to take some swings.

I obviously was assuming that they get a good offer and a guy they really like is there (I trust the Spurs FO when it comes to drafting). In that scenario, that is when I believe Tiago should at least be avaible, not to give away, but in a Kawhi type situation (top 15 pick that the Spurs are actually high on).

If Tiago is going to be entrusted with an expanding role, including a decent amount of minutes next to Tim, this is moot. If he isn't injury prone and is expected to be very healthy, same thing. That's the two things I question.

If they reach a Kawhi type situation, then I'd trust them to move Tiago as well.

I just think it's a lot easier to whiff on a big than a guard or swingman. And I don't see any bigs outside of the top 5 or 6 in this draft that I'm trading Tiago straight up for.

[tesseractive]

In your opinion, is he a better fit to start and play quality minutes next to Tim than Tiago?

He has a jumper. That alone makes him a better fit next to Tim than Tiago is.

[Richie]

Competent centers of course..relatively speaking. But only if that center can hit free throws and not shrivel up in the playoffs, you know becoming a liability for his team.

I agree with chump, no way is 27 year old Tiago Splitter, after this playoff showing, netting you a top 15 pick in a draft stacked with 20-22 year old big men.

This, 100%. No way in hell do we get even a mid round pick for Tiago alone. We would need to package him with Neal and possbly next years 1st to have any hope of getting a late-lottery pick. Hopefully there is a player in the draft that the Spurs consider to be that valuable and there is a team willing to take the deal

[tesseractive]

Lorbek is an awfully skilled bigman. He has the whole package on the offensive end. The knock on him is a big lack of athleticism but it's doesn't really mean he will be as bad defensively as Bonner. He certainly isn't a strong defender in Europe but he isn't a liability either.

Thanks, Bruno. :)

[DPG21920]

If they reach to a Kawhi type situation, then I'd trust them to move Tiago as well.

I just think it's a lot easier to whiff on a big than a guard or swingman. And I don't see any bigs outside of the top 5 or 6 in this draft that I'm trading Tiago straight up for.

Agree, but I am talking about trading for talent. While I would like a big, if the Spurs feel they have enough depth (let's say sign Boris and Lorbek) where they don't desperately need a big, they can get a good pick (possibly) and draft a talent at any position. Again, the point is that I just disagreed with what I thought Timvp was saying about Tiago's availability in a trade.

[Bruno]

In your opinion, is he a better fit to start and play quality minutes next to Tim than Tiago?

Well, it depends on who else is on the roster. Lorbek is a good fit to play alongside both.

[ChumpDumper]

Fair point, and since I have been one of the bigger Tiago supporters (still am), maybe my perception of his value is skewed.

In ranking my desires, it's that Tiago stays with the team and is entrusted with an expanded role which includes time next to Tim. I am really just speaking to the point that if that is not in the cards, due to the questionmarks in his game you mentioned, his age and a perception of injury, he should be decently available in a high draft pick sceanrio trade.The thing is if Splitter can just develop one go-to post move and a 12 ft jumper, he's about as complete a center as one would be able to get lower in the draft and a fine replacement for a retiring Tim.

Can he do it? That's the kind of questions RC and the rest of the GMs will be asking themselves. If the answer is yes, then only a young, athletic defender of a big man who can somehow stay on the floor with Duncan immediately is the only thing that really makes sense in return for Tiago.

Tall order.

[ChumpDumper]

So to speak.

[baseline bum]

Side note:Spurs meeting with Andre Drummond. Not that it means anything obviously, just due dilligence.

God if the Spurs trade for him I'll be pissed. I already made an awful trade for him in fantasy league last year when he looked like he'd be good. :lol

[tesseractive]

The thing is if Splitter can just develop one go-to post move and a 12 ft jumper, he's about as complete a center as one would be able to get lower in the draft and a fine replacement for a retiring Tim.

Can he do it? That's the kind of questions RC and the rest of the GMs will be asking themselves. If the answer is yes, then only a young, athletic defender of a big man who can somehow stay on the floor with Duncan immediately is the only thing that really makes sense in return for Tiago.

Tall order.

If we think he can go from having one legit NBA offensive tool to having 3, I would be ecstatic. I would love for that to prove to be the case.

[Richie]

The thing is if Splitter can just develop one go-to post move and a 12 ft jumper, he's about as complete a center as one would be able to get lower in the draft and a fine replacement for a retiring Tim.

Can he do it? That's the kind of questions RC and the rest of the GMs will be asking themselves. If the answer is yes, then only a young, athletic defender of a big man who can somehow stay on the floor with Duncan immediately is the only thing that really makes sense in return for Tiago.

Tall order.

The guy is 27 and a pretty poor free throw shooter. If he doesn't have a jumpshot by now, I don't think he'll ever have one

[Mugen]

Agree, but I am talking about trading for talent. While I would like a big, if the Spurs feel they have enough depth (let's say sign Boris and Lorbek) where they don't desperately need a big, they can get a good pick (possibly) and draft a talent at any position. Again, the point is that I just disagreed with what I thought Timvp was saying about Tiago's availability in a trade.

I'd hope that the FO wouldn't consider Lorbek/Diaw/Blair as enough big depth to trade the only other rim protector they have besides Tim. I think they're deep enough at guard and swing positions to not leave a 37 year old Duncan as the only interior defender on the team.

[ChumpDumper]

The guy is 27 and a pretty poor free throw shooter. If he doesn't have a jumpshot by now, I don't think he'll ever have oneTrue enough. That skill is less important than the post moves, but he will likely never play alongside Duncan if he lacks that.

[angelbelow]

Can he do it? That's the kind of questions RC and the rest of the GMs will be asking themselves. If the answer is yes, then only a young, athletic defender of a big man who can somehow stay on the floor with Duncan immediately is the only thing that really makes sense in return for Tiago.

Tall order.

Good point. The Spurs don't have the pieces to acquire a player of that description. Therefore, I don't believe we have the luxury to trade a guy like Splitter.

[DPG21920]

God if the Spurs trade for him I'll be pissed. I already made an awful trade for him in fantasy league last year when he looked like he'd be good. :lol

Spurs would likely have to trade into the top 5 for that and I can't see that happening unless Kawhi is on the table. Even then, that would be tough. Kawhi is pretty damn special right now and I am not that high on Drummond, but he's about the only big in the draft outside of Davis that has enough potential for anything crazy to happen IMO. I wouldn't do it, but I pretty much hate most college big men :lol

[TD 21]

I'm with you on the vast majority of these evaluations, but like I said in my "Off season Game Plan" thread, even though there's probably nothing they can do to get past the Thunder going forward, they've made it clear the goal is to continue to attempt to contend for the final 1-2 seasons of Duncan's career. So with that in mind, they've got to look for ways to improve. Their best trade assets are Splitter, Blair, Neal and Jackson, because he has a big expiring contract. Bonner, he's not a trade asset on his own, but I don't think they'd have trouble including him in a package. All are useful players, most of which I'm a big fan of, but every last one of them should be on the table. Jackson, for his personality alone, would be extremely difficult to trade. They need more Jackson's as is, but if his contract is the difference between acquiring a player such as Smith, then I'm moving him yesterday.

As far as Neal and Blair, I disagree that you bring them back because they're cheap. More like, you trade them before they get significant raises a year from now, a la Hill. Particularly if Green is re-signed, how does Neal fit? Damn near all of us agree he shouldn't be a primary backup point for an entire season, but he's way overqualified to be a fifth guard (on a lot of teams, he'd be their sixth man; he's that good an off the bench scorer). As far as Blair, Pop obviously doesn't trust him (and rightfully so), but similar to Neal, he's overqualified as a fifth big. No way either would play the good soldier role for an entire season, in contract years, no less, if they were in such limited rolls.

I think they'll try to swing a significant trade to re-work the big rotation, but failing that, I still think Blair's gone for sure and there's a solid chance Neal and Bonner are too. Not quite sure how the big rotation works out, but I think we're looking at Mills/De Colo as the backup points next season.

[Mugen]

:lol imagine how much worse this series would have been if we had RJ instead of Jack.

[Budkin]

We need some fucking defense. We couldn't get stops at all when we had to have them.

[baseline bum]

Spurs would likely have to trade into the top 5 for that and I can't see that happening unless Kawhi is on the table. Even then, that would be tough. Kawhi is pretty damn special right now and I am not that high on Drummond, but he's about the only big in the draft outside of Davis that has enough potential for anything crazy to happen IMO. I wouldn't do it, but I pretty much hate most college big men :lol

It would likely have to be something like Parker+Leonard for Portland's picks + overpaid Batum if Drummond slipped to 6. I'll pass.

[angelbelow]

:lol imagine how much worse this series would have been if we had RJ instead of Jack.

:lol too much would be different. Probably end up with 2nd seed and have to go through the Mavericks/Lakers. Not sure if we survive those series with the curse of RJ still plaguing our team.

[silverblk mystix]

The thing is if Splitter can just develop one go-to post move and a 12 ft jumper, he's about as complete a center as one would be able to get lower in the draft and a fine replacement for a retiring Tim.

Can he do it? That's the kind of questions RC and the rest of the GMs will be asking themselves. If the answer is yes, then only a young, athletic defender of a big man who can somehow stay on the floor with Duncan immediately is the only thing that really makes sense in return for Tiago.

Tall order.


He could develop those things-but they will not do him any good if the coach won't play him, won't allow him any mistakes when he does play him and especially if the coach continues to play players who suck ahead of him.

[mavs>spurs]

^to be fair to pop, it's kind of hard to play him whenever teams can employ "hack a splitter" strategy late in the game. why rely on someone and make them a heavy part of the rotation whenever you know you won't be able to rely on them come crunch time?

splitter needs to work on his free throw shooting, period. he shot 37% these playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

He could develop those things-but they will not do him any good if the coach won't play him, won't allow him any mistakes when he does play him and especially if the coach continues to play players who suck ahead of him.Splitter went from fair to stunningly terrible in the playoffs. I guess you have to pin it all on Pop, but damn, Splitter was just bad.

I just said he won't ever play with Duncan if he doesn't develop the jumper.

[EVAY]

wrong. Westbrook plays like that by design. WB/Durant = Fire/Ice. He is the engine of OKC and the #2 reason why they are in the NBA Finals.

Doesn't a combination of fire and ice result in water?

[Dex]

Goddamn, timvp, that avatar is depressing me. I hope you don't plan to keep it for long.

[EVAY]

No matter what happens, don't trade Kawhi.

Just don't.

[CGD]

In a way I wish it was next summer. With the rise of the Thunder in the west, you have to think this was our last real shot at #5 (but who know someone can get injured). I know its been said before about the window closing/reopening/closing, but Duncan's indication that he's good for 1 or 2 more years gives that certainty. I wonder if mgmt will make a serious move to make another run before TD's gone, or if they will just ride it out with what we have and make next year the real last stand. Lots of money comes off the books then.

[silverblk mystix]

Splitter went from fair to stunningly terrible in the playoffs. I guess you have to pin it all on Pop, but damn, Splitter was just bad.

I just said he won't ever play with Duncan if he doesn't develop the jumper.


I agree with you for once. Wasn't all Pop's fault-but to be fair-we have all seen other players suck worse yet Pop continued to practice patience with those players.

Somehow Pop had to be persuaded to even play Splitter-and for awhile Splitter forced Pop to play him due to his great play in his designated role-yet at the first sign of Splitter struggling Pop was ready to make him a scapegoat.

[ChumpDumper]

Somehow Pop had to be persuaded to even play Splitter-and for awhile Splitter forced Pop to play him due to his great play in his designated roleA myth, really.

Splitter's minutes went down every month from December on.

Unless you are saying his great play forced Pop to play him less....

[rascal]

Also, I think Tiago needs to be on the table. I am about as big of a Tiago fan as you will find, but I don't see him flourishing here. He definitely has the tools to flourish in the NBA, but I am not sure if that is here and I am not sure the time is now.

With his age and those factors in mind, if a team is pretty high on him and it can net you a solid draft pick I think the Spurs should listen (even if that means taking a step back from a contention standpoint in the next two years- but he was used sparingly anyways and the Spurs still got to the WCF.)

Agree. If the Spurs can net a 1st round pick in this years draft they should move Splitter.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

IF the Spurs could get a good 1st round player they like for Splitter, I think it should be done. Anything can happen, but my feeling is that Splitter and Pop don't work well together. I think that's obvious at this point. As Bruno mentioned his contract is coming up down the line. IF there's interest I think he has to be moved.

[silverblk mystix]

A myth, really.

Splitter's minutes went down every month from December on.

Unless you are saying his great play forced Pop to play him less....


Well his minutes and what he was contributing are two different things. Splitter was learning his role and when Timmy rested the game didn't go to shit. Of course the Spurs are leagues better with TD on the court but Splitter was adequate for relief.

Pairing them together was never given a real chance. Any other coach would have made that a priority.

[rascal]

I think they need to hold onto Splitter and look to re-sign him at the end of his current contract. Duncan found the fountain of youth during that amazing stretch, but I honestly don't know if he has more than a year left of high-mpg basketball. After next year, Splitter would be a natural fit to take the starting center role.

If Splitter is the starting center expect to be lottery bound.

[slayermin]

If the Thunder blows it in the Finals, is the window still cracked?

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Regarding Duncan...considering the Spurs just got back door swept for not having enough talent to compete, WHY would he want to come back unless the Spurs improve the team to really try and compete for a title again. I don't see how the team can improve if he's getting a lion share of the money.

If he wants a big contract, YES, he deserves it but it will almost automatically ensure nothing more than a swan song farewell season, which to be honest, would mean an inferior team and be a bunch of PR advertising ploys to get people to buy tickets, and he probably couldn't give a crap about that sort of scenario.

In my mind Tim wants to win first. I think he takes a low contract or considers retirement. I don't think retirement is more than 20% of a possibility but I'd imagine, as the cerebral person/player that he is, that he must be looking hard at the realities of what his chances are and what next season will be like.

Maybe he just wants to play and see what happens, but he seems like a player who only wants to play to win. Should be interesting. A lot of decisions for the FO to make as the draft looms near...

[ChumpDumper]

Well his minutes and what he was contributing are two different things. Splitter was learning his role and when Timmy rested the game didn't go to shit. Of course the Spurs are leagues better with TD on the court but Splitter was adequate for relief.

Pairing them together was never given a real chance. Any other coach would have made that a priority.Untrue. Never happened with Gortat and Howard, for example.

[silverblk mystix]

Untrue. Never happened with Gortat and Howard, for example.


OK if you have to be right you win.

[alucardthereaper]

Tim Duncan
All in all, great season. The Spurs should hand him a blank contract and tell him to fill it out.

Manu Ginobili
Per-minute production-wise, Ginobili had a very good season. He still showed the ability to come up big in big games. Unfortunately, for the first time ever, he wasn't much of a positive difference-maker in the playoffs. That said, it's great to have him coming back another season.

Tony Parker
Memorable season. Played some of his best basketball ever. He needed to have one of the best postseason runs in NBA history for a point guard for the Spurs to win a championship. Didn't happen.

Stephen Jackson
He's obviously slowed down since 2003 but he still has his way with pressure and is a great teammate. It'll be a blast to root for him all of next season.

Kawhi Leonard
What a great rookie season. Simply amazing. Defense was really good in the playoffs. Offensively he proved to be a pressure shooter with budding all-around skills. It was a pleasure to watch him grow this season.

Tiago Splitter
I'm still pretty high on him. Yeah, he became a free throw liability once the pressure rose in the playoffs. Yeah, some flaws were outed by the Thunder (namely an inability to postup smaller players). Yeah, his defense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. All that said, considering it was basically his rookie season and considering how well he played at points this season, it's way, way too early to give up on him. Bring him back and try to iron out the kinks.

Danny Green
Bad ending but I like him as a player. He shot damn well for a long stretch of time. The Spurs should bring him back for his shooting ability alone. He shot blanks in the WCF but slumps happen to the best of shooters. Add in the fact that he's a capable of defender with some rough playmaking ability and there's a chance he turns into a top 20 shooting guard. Anything less than $2.5 million per year for him would be a major bargain.

Boris Diaw
I was pretty damn high on him until the Thunder series. Then OKC gave a blueprint on how to defend Diaw: Ignore him. If you don't defend him, he still won't shoot and you can defend 5-on-4 to close up his passing lanes. Maybe a full season with the Spurs would have helped him but I'm wary. He strikes me more as a rich-man Bonner than a playoff warrior you want to go to battle with. Then again, when it comes to stretch fours in the NBA, the pickings are slim. If you can re-sign Diaw for a reasonable rate, you probably gotta do it. But anything north of $3.5 million per season would make me think twice.

Gary Neal
His cheap salary makes it obvious that he needs to be brought back next season. That said, I don't know where he fits. The Spurs need to look for a real backup point guard. Neal can be the third point guard. What makes the most sense is to make him the third point guard and third shooting guard ... but he's probably too good for the role. If a team starved for shooting wants him in a trade, I'd listen.

DeJuan Blair
Blair, like Neal, is a no-brainer to bring back at his salary. He's not a very good fit on the roster but he's a guy who can eat a lot of regular season minutes at a reasonable level. In fact, putting him in the starting lineup for a stretch is a good way to keep stress off of Duncan's knees because Blair can assume the low post scoring role. Also like Neal, if a team calls inquiring about him in a trade, you don't hang up the phone.

Patrick Mills
If he wants to come back for his player option (which would pay him the minimum), that's a good contract for the Spurs. Is he good enough to be the full-time backup point guard? I'm not convinced but there's a definitely a chance. In fact, if both he and Neal return, I think Mills should be the backup point guard. If Mills wants to leave to try to score a better contract and opt out, I wish him well.

James Anderson
Goodbye.

Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.




Pretty much my thoughts exactly, only if i had to put it on paper it with be very bitterly angry, one thing needs to be said this team is one quality 7 footer away from a championship caliber team to say it in Pop's fashion...

[ChumpDumper]

OK if you have to be right you win.I don't have to be right. In this case, you were just wrong.

[silverblk mystix]

I don't have to be right. In this case, you were just wrong.


OK you were right I was wrong.

Pop gave him a fair chance -Splitter just plain sucks. Hope another team even wants him.

[ChumpDumper]

OK you were right I was wrong.

Pop gave him a fair chance -Splitter just plain sucks. Hope another team even wants him.Straw man.

I think I know where this is headed.

[silverblk mystix]

Straw man.

I think I know where this is headed.

No one can ever be right when arguing with you so you win.

You were right. I was wrong. End.

[ChumpDumper]

No one can ever be right when arguing with you so you win.

You were right. I was wrong. End.Is this how you handle being wrong on a single point in real life?

[silverblk mystix]

Is this how you handle being wrong on a single point in real life?


What difference does it make?

You win.

You were right.

[ChumpDumper]

What difference does it make?It would be funny were it true.


You win.There's nothing to win.


You were right.No reason for you to cry.

[mavs>spurs]

Chump is right, Splitter regressed terribly in the playoffs, the whole "hack a splitter" thing affected his confidence or something. It would be silly to rely on a guy for heavy rotation minutes when you can't count on him come fourth quarter because of his ft shooting.

[DPG21920]

Silverblk - Chump is just saying that it's not always as clear as it seems to play your most talented players together (hence the Gortat/Dwight).

The difference in that scenario obviously though is with Dwight in his prime and a defensive/rebounding beast, you didn't have to force anything that might not be a natural fit (Dwight could also play tons of minutes without tiring or injury until this year).

With Tim's situation and the Spurs trying to win with what they had however, Tiago & Tim should have gotten more time together simply for the potential that was there. Not a guarantee it would work and the small sample size showed mixed results, but, it's not always natural to put your best guys together.

[Arcadian]

The Spurs need two things:

1) A young center

2) A backup point guard

I think we already have #2 in Mills. We still need #1. Splitter should be kept, but Blair and Bonner should be traded or let go.

[silverblk mystix]

Silverblk - Chump is just saying that it's not always as clear as it seems to play your most talented players together (hence the Gortat/Dwight).

The difference in that scenario obviously though is with Dwight in his prime and a defensive/rebounding beast, you didn't have to force anything that might not be a natural fit (Dwight could also play tons of minutes without tiring or injury until this year).

With Tim's situation and the Spurs trying to win with what they had however, Tiago & Tim should have gotten more time together simply for the potential that was there. Not a guarantee it would work and the small sample size showed mixed results, but, it's not always natural to put your best guys together.


I understood all that. Hence why he is right.

We won't ever know if the pairing would have worked and I sincerely do hope that Splitter plays elsewhere.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I'm saying it now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Manu hang it up. Think about it, he has been leveled by injuries for 4 years now. It's pretty clear the Spurs will not win another title in the Tim Duncan era. This was our legitimate last shot. Everyone can roll their eyes, I get it. But you can't discount the fact that Tim is 36 and will be 37 come playoff time next year. Manu will be 35 in a month. The media has buried us for years, now the end is a reality. I have no facts, I just have a gut feeling.

[baseline bum]

No matter what happens, don't trade Kawhi.

Just don't.

This. I know we have been excited about rookies in the past (e.g., Blair and Hill), but Leonard doesn't have any huge holes in his game and I can't wait to see him next season with a training camp and a year of experience under his belt.

[baseline bum]

I'm saying it now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Manu hang it up. Think about it, he has been leveled by injuries for 4 years now. It's pretty clear the Spurs will not win another title in the Tim Duncan era. This was our legitimate last shot. Everyone can roll their eyes, I get it. But you can't discount the fact that Tim is 36 and will be 37 come playoff time next year. Manu will be 35 in a month. The media has buried us for years, now the end is a reality. I have no facts, I just have a gut feeling.

The only way I could see Manu retiring in the next couple of seasons is if he blows out his knee or has a similar devastating kind of injury. I wonder if he has any interest in being an assistant coach (or if he'd be any good at it) after retiring.

[ChumpDumper]

I understood all that. Hence why he is right.

We won't ever know if the pairing would have worked and I sincerely do hope that Splitter plays elsewhere.Why wouldn't you want him to play for the Spurs?

[Leetonidas]

Manu's not retiring :lol

[ElNono]

Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.

...took you a while, but welcome to the boat! :lol

[silverblk mystix]

Why wouldn't you want him to play for the Spurs?


Just calling a spade a spade.

Pop will never really "coach" him. Pop doesn't really like him.
Why keep him?

Spurs will never get rid of Pop so the reality is that if the coach has it in for you-you don't belong here.

Let him try to have a career somewhere else and hopefully some coach sees his potential and gets the most out of him.

[spursince#99]

I guess where I am going with this is, is their a big man good enough in the lottery outside of Davis to put Kawhi on the table?


what you mean? Kawhi on the table?

[ElNono]

I'm glad ppl finally seeing the light on Bonner. El Che been preaching this for years.

kinda disappointed it takes so long to ppl realize what took El Che a few moments

:lol 2011 posts...

try 2009:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3890695#post3890695

:lol

[DPG21920]

Possibly trade him.

[Spurs da champs]

Splitter for 1st round pick from Indiana would work, they need backup center we need American big.

[ffadicted]

I guess where I am going with this is, is their a big man good enough in the lottery outside of Davis to put Kawhi on the table?

Wouldn't let Kwahi go for anyone who wouldn't be crazy to trade their pick.
In other words, no. Kid's ceiling is too unknown and potentially high.

I agree with bringing back the same team essentially, but I hope that timmy settles for less money and maybe gives us some wiggle room. Wouldn't be shocked or disappointed if he got his pay day though.

[DPG21920]

Even with Tim taking a low contract, Spurs still don't have a lot of money to sign FA's next year. I will be the year after where that makes a difference.

[Slippy]

He was pretty average to bad in half the games in the WCF. His Game 6 was pretty damn forgettable, tbh. I love Manu and thrilled he'll be back but it is somewhat sad that it's now undeniable that he no longer is a superstar level difference maker.

.

What did you expect Manu to do in game 6? Looked to me like he was doing the team thing. Going with the guys that were rolling from the first half as in Tim and Tony. Would like to have seen him get the ball more in the second half but there's only so many shots and plays to go around.

[ffadicted]

Even with Tim taking a low contract, Spurs still don't have a lot of money to sign FA's next year. I will be the year after where that makes a difference.

Good point

[Andthentherewas21]

Even if the Spurs did have some cash to sign FA's, there isn't much in this crop that would make or break them. The only big unrestricted FA is Deron Williams, which short of a sign and trade has less than 0% chance of happening, and then the Roy Hibberts, Batums, even Courtney Lees of the world are all Restricted FAs with the borderline playoff teams chomping at the bit to overpay them.

[Richie]

I wouldn't mind seeing Duncan take a big pay cheque this year, then next year take something small and we throw big money at Ibaka as a restricted free agent.

[Marcus Bryant]

Inclined to think there shouldn't be major changes - this team jelled this season and the additions of Jack and Diaw brought it to within two wins of another trip to the Finals. Give this group a full season together.

But, you can't rest on your laurels and two of your top 3 players are age 35 and over. This team had a relatively healthy season, which can't always be counted on.

If Pop wasn't boneheaded in the first quarter of Game 5 we'd be looking at a Game 7 tomorrow night.

Obvious need is an athletic big of some sort.

[DPG21920]

With that said, there are the Brandon Wright/Ian Mahinimi types every year if you get lucky.

[mingus]

We definitely need an athletic big. I say keep Splitter and Diaw, but get rid of Bonner and Blair if it all possible (which it probably isn't) to acquire one.

I don't know if we'll ever beat OKC with our declining Big 3, but making a move like that will definitely make us more competitive.

[Marcus Bryant]

Backup PG is somewhat overrated as a concern, as long as the Spurs run the motion and Manu is on the court. Need more of a defensive presence inside.

[maverick1948]

Tim Duncan
All in all, great season. The Spurs should hand him a blank contract and tell him to fill it out.

Manu Ginobili
Per-minute production-wise, Ginobili had a very good season. He still showed the ability to come up big in big games. Unfortunately, for the first time ever, he wasn't much of a positive difference-maker in the playoffs. That said, it's great to have him coming back another season.

Tony Parker
Memorable season. Played some of his best basketball ever. He needed to have one of the best postseason runs in NBA history for a point guard for the Spurs to win a championship. Didn't happen.

Stephen Jackson
He's obviously slowed down since 2003 but he still has his way with pressure and is a great teammate. It'll be a blast to root for him all of next season.

Kawhi Leonard
What a great rookie season. Simply amazing. Defense was really good in the playoffs. Offensively he proved to be a pressure shooter with budding all-around skills. It was a pleasure to watch him grow this season.

Tiago Splitter
I'm still pretty high on him. Yeah, he became a free throw liability once the pressure rose in the playoffs. Yeah, some flaws were outed by the Thunder (namely an inability to postup smaller players). Yeah, his defense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. All that said, considering it was basically his rookie season and considering how well he played at points this season, it's way, way too early to give up on him. Bring him back and try to iron out the kinks.

Danny Green
Bad ending but I like him as a player. He shot damn well for a long stretch of time. The Spurs should bring him back for his shooting ability alone. He shot blanks in the WCF but slumps happen to the best of shooters. Add in the fact that he's a capable of defender with some rough playmaking ability and there's a chance he turns into a top 20 shooting guard. Anything less than $2.5 million per year for him would be a major bargain.

Boris Diaw
I was pretty damn high on him until the Thunder series. Then OKC gave a blueprint on how to defend Diaw: Ignore him. If you don't defend him, he still won't shoot and you can defend 5-on-4 to close up his passing lanes. Maybe a full season with the Spurs would have helped him but I'm wary. He strikes me more as a rich-man Bonner than a playoff warrior you want to go to battle with. Then again, when it comes to stretch fours in the NBA, the pickings are slim. If you can re-sign Diaw for a reasonable rate, you probably gotta do it. But anything north of $3.5 million per season would make me think twice.

Gary Neal
His cheap salary makes it obvious that he needs to be brought back next season. That said, I don't know where he fits. The Spurs need to look for a real backup point guard. Neal can be the third point guard. What makes the most sense is to make him the third point guard and third shooting guard ... but he's probably too good for the role. If a team starved for shooting wants him in a trade, I'd listen.

DeJuan Blair
Blair, like Neal, is a no-brainer to bring back at his salary. He's not a very good fit on the roster but he's a guy who can eat a lot of regular season minutes at a reasonable level. In fact, putting him in the starting lineup for a stretch is a good way to keep stress off of Duncan's knees because Blair can assume the low post scoring role. Also like Neal, if a team calls inquiring about him in a trade, you don't hang up the phone.

Patrick Mills
If he wants to come back for his player option (which would pay him the minimum), that's a good contract for the Spurs. Is he good enough to be the full-time backup point guard? I'm not convinced but there's a definitely a chance. In fact, if both he and Neal return, I think Mills should be the backup point guard. If Mills wants to leave to try to score a better contract and opt out, I wish him well.

James Anderson
Goodbye.

Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.


WOW Everybody gets a pass on the 4 game losing streak in the WCF. That is until you get to James Anderson and Matt Bonner. At first, I thought you were doing a good job giving grades, but by the end of the year, Bonner could do NOTHING right. So he chokes in the playoffs, that is who you blame. He played a HUGE role in losing the playoffs. WOW 3 whole mins in Games 4, 5 and 6 of the WCF. He chocked alright. He choked sitting on the damn bench instead of getting court time when NONE of the rest of the team was scoring in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Hey let's lay it on Anderson that the Spurs lost. He was really a liability in games 4, 5, and 6. Yep, all 0 mins he was on the court. How about Patty Mills. He offered a huge contribution. Oh wait, 0 mins in the last 3 games.

Lets call all the hands, Pop shorten the roster when he should have stuck with what got us here. I will always think that with Diaw coming off the bench with Manu we would have had a better chance of winning the WCF.

[mudyez]

Have to agree with timvp's evaluations (even though I may like Mills a little more than he does).

As for any trades:

Don't forget that there has to be something in the draft to trade for! I get it. The draft is deep. But there simply has to be a guy our team really wants (and probably wants more than most teams). I trust our scouting very much and as I said somewhere else: Our front office isn't famous for "trading up"...It's like with my favorit NFL team the Steelers (IMHO, the team most similar to the Spurs....f**k the Pats). They more or less never traded up until someone special was there to get: Troy Polamalu...And while Leonard may not become a HoFer, he fell to the point where R.C. just liked to do the trade. WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS PLAYER IS THERE OR WILL FALL FAR ENOUGH!

Trading/Amnestizing Bonner:
I'm not sure if Bonner has negativ trade value. 2years for about 7,5mio isn't cheap for a playoff lollipop, but:
1) I'm not sure every team out there is valuing playoff performance like the 4-6 contenders do.
2) If Pop has faith in Bonner year after year, why shouldn't someone else?
3) We always have the Knicks and Warriors to fall ask for.
That said, I think he has neutral value and could be included in some other deal. If not, I don't see us amnestizing him (Holt shouldnt have to pay him for not playing), but simply shut him down when the playoffs start.

Trading Blair:
If we don't keep him for longer than a year (and while I don't think he is a great fit next to Duncan, he may give us something moving on some day on a reasonable price), we should try to trade him for something. I don't see us getting something special, but maybe we can trade into the late 1st round or get someone better fitting.

As for others:
While there always might be a stupid call from some GM worth answering, we shouldn't touch Splitter (nearest thing to a real C next to Timmy), Green (he just hit a bad streak at the worst time...he simply doesn't come over like a weak minded dude) and Neal (at least he has major balls).

[DontStopBelieving]

No real major changes should be made tbh.. It'll again just be a matter of getting into the playoffs healthy next year for the old guys, and hoping that the new guys make some decent improvements.

This roster should not be torn apart imho.

[tesseractive]

At first, I thought you were doing a good job giving grades, but by the end of the year, Bonner could do NOTHING right. So he chokes in the playoffs, that is who you blame. He played a HUGE role in losing the playoffs. WOW 3 whole mins in Games 4, 5 and 6 of the WCF. He chocked alright. He choked sitting on the damn bench instead of getting court time when NONE of the rest of the team was scoring in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.
He was sitting on the bench because he was an utter liability when he was on the court. Having to scramble because we suddenly had to reallocate what would have been Bonner's minutes was part of the reason we lost those games.

We all know Bonner's a defensive liability. He's always been a defensive liability. But on balance, he's been worth it, because he provided good floor spacing and kept the defense from collapsing when we penetrated.

But here's the thing: the Thunder weren't even trying to cover Bonner. They were sagging way, way off him and as a result, we had a lot more trouble getting into the paint -- we were playing 4 on 5 on offense. Of course, with the defense sagging off him, Bonner should have been able to hit some key shots and make them pay for not covering him. Instead, he went a whopping 1 for 9, and the Thunder went right on not covering him until we were forced to sit his ass down for the rest of the series.

So if he's a big defensive liability AND a big offensive liability, why exactly (a) should we have been playing him, and (b) would we bring him back next year?

[Russ]

James Anderson
Goodbye.

We'll let this Okie go back home.



Matt Bonner
The number one priority of the offseason should be to get this guy off the team. He's the most dangerous type player: Bonner is good enough in the regular season to earn a consistent role, however HE CHOKES LIKE GOT DAMN CLOCKWORK IN THE PLAYOFFS. By any means necessary, Pop needs to get rid of this bad habit.

I've had an almost visceral reaction to Bonner as a Spur since the beginning.

He's championship Kryptonite.

You know how you're supposed to visualize success?

I don't visualize Bonner in the rotation of a championship team. I don't see him in the team photo (and please don't trot out his IR team photo in '07).

The lack of grace. The choppy movements. The geeky gait. The insipid smile.

It's not that he lacks swagger, he's absolutely kills swagger.

He infuses the opposition with confidence. And confidence is catching.

The refs pick up on this, too. Most of them are just geeks who want the coolest kids (players) to like them. Bonner just reminds them of them.

He even gives the other team's role players the courage to hit the pressure outside J.

Great guy, Bonner.

Stinks as an NBA player.

[InK]

Next season backup PG will be De Colo. If you read what his agent is saying, it's almost sure Spurs will sign him.

Thats great news

[Russ]

Next season backup PG will be De Colo. If you read what his agent is saying, it's almost sure Spurs will sign him.

The point guard at Churchill high school has a better chance of becoming an NBA player than Nando De Colo.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Trade Bonner (and I have been an ambivalent supporter of him in this board). If the Spurs can pull a trade for him and get some other underachiever who is most likely to be amnestied or dropped - say someone like an amnestied Tyrus Thomas or a traded Amir Johnson, I would be thrilled.

[ElNono]

DUNCAN - fine, give him a deal, but let him know that the more he takes the harder it is to get better players around him.

MANU - he's no longer a consistent difference maker. What used to be a 'MANU-GAME' 9 out of 10 games, then 7 out of ten, then 3 out of 5, now is what, 2 out of 5? 1 out of 3? I love him. He might be my favorite Spur of all time. But he can't be counted on to bring it 4 times in a 7 game series anymore, and that's just the sad truth of time.

PARKER - had a good year. Not a top 4 point guard. That's not an attack, it's a league full of great points. But I'd rather have Westbrook, Rondo, healthy Rose, and Paul. Maybe Williams. Not good enough to win as the best player.

JACKSON - He came though. I will lose with Stephen Jackson any day. He gives a damn, and that might be what I value most in a Spur after so much Bonner and Jefferson the past two years.

LEONARD - LOVE HIM. Hope he improves his game and gets more touches in the offense next year. A bright spot.

SPLITTER - Time to trade him. I love him, he's been mis-used. But Pop has never respected his game and never will. Now he's in Pop's doghouse, and he's not getting out. Trade him to a team that will be smart enough to play him. Get someone that Pop will play. Veteran or draft pick, doesn't matter. Splitter is a walking Mahinmi at this point, let him go win his title.

GREEN - Qualifying Offer or bust. I could take him or leave him. He sure as hell isn't Jackson in 03, so they better not pay him better than what they offered Jackson back then. He's just a marginal NBA talent with decent size. Nothing special.

DIAW - I'm through with him. I'll take my chances with Lorbek over Diaw. He just puked up an awful game 6 and passed up shots all series. Nice guy. But he's a big game choker. Let's not forget, that he was invisible in game 6 for the Suns against the Spurs in 2007. He came back from his suspension and did jack all while the Suns went down. He just did it again here. He'll do it again if you let him.

NEAL - I'm through with him. Defense is too bad for his shooting to make up for (especially terrible, brick the Spurs into losing shooting). If he can be packaged in a trade, Great. Second rounder for Neal straight up? Count me in.

BLAIR - I'm through with him too. Him putting back on 40 pounds since his rookie year (per David Thorpe) shows how much he cares. He was too fat to even dunk for the first half of the year, and his fatness killed his only mealticket into the NBA in the first place, his rebounding. Package him in a trade, just finish him off already. Second rounder? Count me in. He's not helping the Spurs win with Duncan and I don't feel like watching him eat losses when the Spurs are a lotto team after Duncan.

MILLS - I want a defensive bulldog as a back-up to Parker, not a scoring streak shooter, or a bland unremarkable Joseph. It's why I wanted Shelvin Mack over Joseph, even if Mack isn't super.

ANDERSON - who cares

BONNER, THE PRINCE OF PLUS/MINUS - He's the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Desert Fever. He's probably the next GM unfortunately, and will re-make the Spurs into his own choking, awful image.

Agree with everything here... please post more :tu

[BackHome]

What do you think about Cory Joseph, timvp?

Otherwise, the only player that really HAS to go is Matt Bonner. Amnesty please. Anderson isn't gonna be brought back anyway either.

Cory sucks he can't even make an impact in the D-Leauge how is he going to do anything in the NBA?

I have supported Bonner in the past "I am So Sorry" it took some time but I have seen the light. Bonner SUCKS...I agree he gives other players confidence when he comes in and his nut sack shrivels when the Playoffs start. HE HAS TO GO..........

Bonner Gone
Anderson Gone
Neal - Cheap keep him or if a trade happens go for it
Green - He should do us a favor and sign cheap since he played like Bonner
Blair - Trade
Splitter - After Pop punked him on national TV I don't know

What we need to do is get a good backup PG and sign Lobrek....I can only imagine if Ford would not have gotten hurt..snif.sniff...:depressed

[ElNono]

I'm saying it now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Manu hang it up.

:lol Manu is not going anywhere. He'll probably go play to Argentina once his deal with the Spurs is up a year down the road.

[T Park]

The point guard at Churchill high school has a better chance of becoming an NBA player than Nando De Colo.

Uh you base this on what exactly....

[Em-City]

The point guard at Churchill high school has a better chance of becoming an NBA player than Nando De Colo.

you mean Scott Mammel?

http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/PROSPECT/PHOTO/SCOTT_MAMMEL_&_ZACH_JOHNSON_150.JPG


sounds like he's going to army

[100%duncan]

:lmao at JA

[DMC]

Pop is fine if he wants to stay, and I think that rests on if Duncan wants to continue playing. But Pop has said he would like to keep coaching, however he's interested in politics as well.

Either way, CotY doesn't get fired before the next season.

[BackHome]

Pop needs to go how the fuck do you have the best record two years in a row and don't even get to the fucking finals?..............Do a Greg Hill..........

[Jumi]

Pop is fine if he wants to stay, and I think that rests on if Duncan wants to continue playing. But Pop has said he would like to keep coaching, however he's interested in politics as well.

Either way, CotY doesn't get fired before the next season.
In the language of politics, Coach Pop: "I'm resigning to spend more time with my family!"

[ploto]

I assume Blair is the one the Spurs are looking to move since he started early on in the season to increase his value and then sat on the bench during the playoffs.

[tesseractive]

Pop needs to go how the fuck do you have the best record two years in a row and don't even get to the fucking finals?..............Do a Greg Hill..........

We really ought to get onto a regular treadmill cycle of hanging our coach out to dry every 2-3 years like most of the teams in the league. It leads to such obvious success everywhere else. :rolleyes

[Jumi]

We really ought to get onto a regular treadmill cycle of hanging our coach out to dry every 2-3 years like most of the teams in the league. It leads to such obvious success everywhere else. :rolleyes
I'm not one for hyperbole, but how about this, would you entertain the thought of bringing in a new coach? If not, under what scenerio would you consider the move outside of Duncan's retirement? Just a question.

[tesseractive]

I'm not one for hyperbole, but how about this, would you entertain the thought of bringing in a new coach? If not, under what scenerio would you consider the move outside of Duncan's retirement? Just a question.

First off, I can't imagine any scenario where Pop would want to stay around when he was actually being ineffective as a coach. But let's say somehow that changed. I'd say that the team would have to significantly regress year to year for at least 3 years in a row in a way that wasn't explainable in any way based on weaker personnel.

You don't fire a Hall of Fame coach because he has a bad year or two any more than you cut Hall of Fame players just because they decline as they get older. Reacting like that is a panic move, and the fact that we've had decades of continuity and a lack of panic moves is one of the things that has separated us from other teams that have managed to land a franchise player and still managed to screw the pooch anyway.

[BackHome]

Chump is right, Splitter regressed terribly in the playoffs, the whole "hack a splitter" thing affected his confidence or something. It would be silly to rely on a guy for heavy rotation minutes when you can't count on him come fourth quarter because of his ft shooting.

Then you can take this further and ask yourself "WHY THE HECK WAS BONNER ON THIS TEAM"? I mean every year he sucks in the playoffs why is he still a Spur. Also GREEN sucked even worse then BONNER so why should he be on the team? The same for NEAL and DIAW............

[BlairForceDejuan]

if bonner is still around i will not even watch 1 game.

inb4 losers with nothing in their lives other than sports cry about real fandom

[Bruno]

DeJuan Blair
Blair, like Neal, is a no-brainer to bring back at his salary.

I think, it's more complicated than that. Both Blair and Neal are in a contract year. If you bring then back to have them out of the rotation, it's looking for troubles. They and their agent will start to complain and ask for a trade very quickly. Blair, for example, should be traded for whatever Spurs can get if he is the 5th bigman in the depth chart.

It's also true for Mills. Before he picks or not his option, Spurs must be very clear with him on whether or not he has a legit shot to get the backup PG spot or he will remain a 3rd stringer.

[gameFACE]

Aside from who gets traded, resigned, etc., the key thing is that anyone you bring in should hopefully have good playoff experience. Kawhi is an exception. Green and Splitter couldn't handle the pressure but could next season. The Thunder's young ones have had a few years in the playoffs. So in a nutshell whatever big and backup PG comes in should gone through that in some form. I have no idea who's out there. But floating draft picks won't cut it.

Anyone think there could be a chance to restructure Jack's contract? He's set to mak $10M next year. Maybe they can negotiate a longer contract that could pay him less next season but gives him some security down the road for the twilight of his career. That could free up some $$$.

[baseline bum]

A bigman with a guard's height and no ACLs will get you back absolutely nothing in trade.

[silverblk mystix]

Package and trade

Splitter
Blair
Bonner
Anderson
Neal

for a bag of chips and a turkey sandwich with Swiss cheese, bacon, lettuce, tomato, salt, pepper, vinegar, olive oil and mayo.

How bout on wheat bread?

Done.

[ChumpDumper]

Just calling a spade a spade.

Pop will never really "coach" him. Pop doesn't really like him.
Why keep him?

Spurs will never get rid of Pop so the reality is that if the coach has it in for you-you don't belong here.

Let him try to have a career somewhere else and hopefully some coach sees his potential and gets the most out of him.Eh, you made up a lot of stuff there.

[DPG21920]

We need someone who can play next to Tim. If we can't get that, than IMO, if you get an offer for a top 15 pick, you take it, get some youth and hope that you land another Kawhi-type player.

Not saying that you force a Tiago trade; I agree he's much too valuable. I am saying that he should be on the table a little more than Timvp appeared to let on IMO.

Well, with the Budinger trade - we can now somewhat assume Tiago's value is at least here. Does that change anyone's mind with regards to the Spurs offering up Tiago for a top 15 pick?

[Thomas82]

Well, with the Budinger trade - we can now somewhat assume Tiago's value is at least here. Does that change anyone's mind with regards to the Spurs offering up Tiago for a top 15 pick?

I personally think you can get the 10 or 12 pick for him, even a little higher if you can package the right player with him.

[Drz]

Well, with the Budinger trade - we can now somewhat assume Tiago's value is at least here. Does that change anyone's mind with regards to the Spurs offering up Tiago for a top 15 pick?

I personally think you can get the 10 or 12 pick for him, even a little higher if you can package the right player with him.
Splitter makes $9M over the next two seasons, Budinger makes $1M over the next one. It's hard to learn much about Splitter's value from this trade.

The Rockets were big winners in this one imo. I see it as a lite version of the George Hill trade, in that exchange for giving up one year of a very good player, they get good spending flexibility and the potential to pick up just as good a player. If I were Morey (or Buford) I'd wonder how I get away with this stuff.

[ChumpDumper]

If I were Morey I'd wonder how I get away with this stuff.http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/david-kahn-gm-timberwolves.jpg:domokun

[BackHome]

DUNCAN - fine, give him a deal, but let him know that the more he takes the harder it is to get better players around him.

MANU - he's no longer a consistent difference maker. What used to be a 'MANU-GAME' 9 out of 10 games, then 7 out of ten, then 3 out of 5, now is what, 2 out of 5? 1 out of 3? I love him. He might be my favorite Spur of all time. But he can't be counted on to bring it 4 times in a 7 game series anymore, and that's just the sad truth of time.

PARKER - had a good year. Not a top 4 point guard. That's not an attack, it's a league full of great points. But I'd rather have Westbrook, Rondo, healthy Rose, and Paul. Maybe Williams. Not good enough to win as the best player.

JACKSON - He came though. I will lose with Stephen Jackson any day. He gives a damn, and that might be what I value most in a Spur after so much Bonner and Jefferson the past two years.

LEONARD - LOVE HIM. Hope he improves his game and gets more touches in the offense next year. A bright spot.

SPLITTER - Time to trade him. I love him, he's been mis-used. But Pop has never respected his game and never will. Now he's in Pop's doghouse, and he's not getting out. Trade him to a team that will be smart enough to play him. Get someone that Pop will play. Veteran or draft pick, doesn't matter. Splitter is a walking Mahinmi at this point, let him go win his title.

GREEN - Qualifying Offer or bust. I could take him or leave him. He sure as hell isn't Jackson in 03, so they better not pay him better than what they offered Jackson back then. He's just a marginal NBA talent with decent size. Nothing special.

DIAW - I'm through with him. I'll take my chances with Lorbek over Diaw. He just puked up an awful game 6 and passed up shots all series. Nice guy. But he's a big game choker. Let's not forget, that he was invisible in game 6 for the Suns against the Spurs in 2007. He came back from his suspension and did jack all while the Suns went down. He just did it again here. He'll do it again if you let him.

NEAL - I'm through with him. Defense is too bad for his shooting to make up for (especially terrible, brick the Spurs into losing shooting). If he can be packaged in a trade, Great. Second rounder for Neal straight up? Count me in.

BLAIR - I'm through with him too. Him putting back on 40 pounds since his rookie year (per David Thorpe) shows how much he cares. He was too fat to even dunk for the first half of the year, and his fatness killed his only mealticket into the NBA in the first place, his rebounding. Package him in a trade, just finish him off already. Second rounder? Count me in. He's not helping the Spurs win with Duncan and I don't feel like watching him eat losses when the Spurs are a lotto team after Duncan.

MILLS - I want a defensive bulldog as a back-up to Parker, not a scoring streak shooter, or a bland unremarkable Joseph. It's why I wanted Shelvin Mack over Joseph, even if Mack isn't super.

ANDERSON - who cares

BONNER, THE PRINCE OF PLUS/MINUS - He's the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Desert Fever. He's probably the next GM unfortunately, and will re-make the Spurs into his own choking, awful image.

+1.......Can I get a AMEN