If Pop and Doc Rivers switched places...

[silverblk mystix]

What would be the results?

Would Pop have taken the celtics this far in the playoffs?
Would Pop have ever developed Perkins since Perkins has no inside game to speak of?
Would Pop have played Allen on a bum ankle?
Would Pop have beaten the sixers?


Would Doc have the Spurs in the finals now?
Would Doc have paired Splitter and Duncan from early in the season and had them develop chemistry together?
Would Doc have been schooled by Lionel Hollins and Scotti Brooks?
Would Doc have allowed Patty Mills to just be the 2nd string point guard since that was the only other true point guard on the team?



Discuss.

[Spurs da champs]

Perkins is the type of player who'd never get an offensive game, but I give Doc credit for still encouraging defense & still getting elite defense from an even older Celtics team, who's 2 say the Spurs couldn't do the same?

I think he just went with the change to have an excuse to run his fantasy D'antoni style offense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i still dunno why boston got rid of big baby and perkins....

[Richie]

Boston has a big 4, Spurs have a big 3. If we had a 26 year old All Star, All-NBA and 4 time All-Defensive player on our team to compliment our big 3, then maybe we do a bit better.

Regardless, Boston would not beat this Thunder team

[Jumi]

You know damn well no one is gonna discuss any of this. Pop walks on water around here. He's smug on TV, smug to Express News, and always knows what's right. It's blasphemous to even suggest such things.

You know damn well this team overachieved this year as well as last year. Only by the grace of Pop have we had the highest winning percentage in pro sports in the Duncan Era. When we lose, it isn't Pop's fault, the other team was just better or it was a bad matchup. Forget the fact that Pop makes personnel decisions as well.

How dare Splitter come to the NBA and think he gets playing time or development with the Spurs! Who drafted that clown anyway? Blair, well he's a starting center in the league! If Pop says so, then it must be true. How dare he fail in the positions the great Pop has placed him in! Patty Mills? Who signed that clown? He's a D-leaguer at best! Now Matt Bonner, that's a great NBA player. Pop says so, so it must be true!

Don't dare question, the Great Pop!

[silverblk mystix]

Here's the deal IMO.

The people that are saying that Splitter is a shitty player only have to look at what Doc Rivers (and Scotti Brooks now) have done with Perkins. You want to know what Perkins has that Splitter doesn't?

Playing time. That is it.

Doc would have developed Tiago/Timmy as a tandem and the Spurs defense would have been a lot better.

Perkins is a slow footed dufus--but he has played tons and tons of minutes and he is going to the finals again. No mystery as to why---he had a coach who gave him all the playing time he needed because of ONE thing. His size.

Bynum is another example.

Some spurs fans cannot admit this and I understand because Pop has done a lot of good for S.A. I get it.

But would Pop help the Spurs more if he stepped back to be the GM?

It is a self-evident and obvious answer.

[Richie]

Here's the deal IMO.

The people that are saying that Splitter is a shitty player only have to look at what Doc Rivers (and Scotti Brooks now) have done with Perkins. You want to know what Perkins has that Splitter doesn't?

Playing time. That is it.

Doc would have developed Tiago/Timmy as a tandem and the Spurs defense would have been a lot better.

Perkins is a slow footed dufus--but he has played tons and tons of minutes and he is going to the finals again. No mystery as to why---he had a coach who gave him all the playing time he needed because of ONE thing. His size.

Bynum is another example.

Some spurs fans cannot admit this and I understand because Pop has done a lot of good for S.A. I get it.

But would Pop help the Spurs more if he stepped back to be the GM?

It is a self-evident and obvious answer.

So every player who is tall is simply lacking playing time to become a premier big man in the NBA? Go tell that to Kwame Brown and Hasheem Thabeet

[silverblk mystix]

So every player who is tall is simply lacking playing time to become a premier big man in the NBA? Go tell that to Kwame Brown and Hasheem Thabeet

Show me where I said that EVERY player blah-blah...

Don't be a stupid ass all your life.

Splitter has quickness, smarts and can be coached to become a lot better than he is but he needs a lot of playing time to get comfortable and to get all his mistakes out of the way.

Bynum was clumsy, traveled all the time, and looked very uncoordinated...but he has had a lot of playing time. Why? One reason- his size.

You can't teach size.

[SamoanTD]

You cant teach toughness and attitude Splitter is good but he just a big blah sometimes.

[100%duncan]

Both teams play worse.

[silverblk mystix]

You cant teach toughness and attitude Splitter is good but he just a big blah sometimes.

Yes I agree-hence why he needs more playing time.

Look at his first season-he never played-no one knew if he could even play at this level.

2nd season- for a little bit there he was a fantastic 2nd string player. Why? He got a little bit of playing time.

If the coach had believed in him from the first season he could have helped in these playoffs. Imagine if he had NEVER been played BEHIND Bonner or Blair?

Where would he be now?

I hope Splitter gets traded for his own good.

[SamoanTD]

Hmmm i see where your going with this I agree Splitter would probably be better but at the same time he doesn't have a very big pain tolerance i mean he seems to be injured regularly.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

i still dunno why boston got rid of big baby and perkins....

$$$

Boston and SA both get to the area of $54-55M with their first four contracts, but Boston made some disastrous MLE decisions like Sheed, who was still on their cap this year, and J O'Neal. Those were both between $6 and $7M, Our next two contracts, Splitter and Bonner, about equal Sheed's cap figure. No one else even makes $3M, which explains why our payroll was $73M and theirs was $88M. Boston is a perfect example of why the owners hate the MLE. Those are the contracts that kill you, not the big ones. They sneak up on you and deprive you of the ability to develop, keep, and pay your youngsters.

[jjktkk]

So every player who is tall is simply lacking playing time to become a premier big man in the NBA? Go tell that to Kwame Brown and Hasheem Thabeet

BINGO!!!!! We have a winner!!!!! Its a shame that such a bright mind as silverblk mystix is only a prison guard. He'd make a great NBA coach or even GM.

[Blake]

what a quaint Pop hating thread.

[jjktkk]

Show me where I said that EVERY player blah-blah...

Don't be a stupid ass all your life.

Splitter has quickness, smarts and can be coached to become a lot better than he is but he needs a lot of playing time to get comfortable and to get all his mistakes out of the way.

Bynum was clumsy, traveled all the time, and looked very uncoordinated...but he has had a lot of playing time. Why? One reason- his size.

You can't teach size.

Since you can't see past your nose, I'll try and break down for you. Perkins is one of the most physical bigs in the game, with a nasty attitude to boot. Trying to compare Splitter to Perkins is extremely laughable. Two completely different players.

[silverblk mystix]

Popsuckers at the ready to defend Pop to the death...or to perpetual mediocrity.

Congrats!

[jjktkk]

Popsuckers at the ready to defend Pop to the death...or to perpetual mediocrity.

Congrats!

A shame theres no prisonguard suckers to come to your rescue.

[silverblk mystix]

Since you can't see past your nose, I'll try and break down for you. Perkins is one of the most physical bigs in the game, with a nasty attitude to boot. Trying to compare Splitter to Perkins is extremely laughable. Two completely different players.

Lacking in reading comprehension much?

Perkins = his size. That is all he had in the beginning. No offensive talent-no quickness,etc..
Doc threw him out there and continued to play him until he got better.

Pop would have buried Perkins behind a Blair or a Bonner (or a Scalabrine) and Perkins would have never blossomed.

R-E-A-D-I-N-G I-S F-U-N-D-A-ME-N-T-A-L

Did I compare them = No.

Did I use them as an example of how a good coach and a has-been coach would develop two players who -at first glance- appear to not be too valuable?
Yes.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Popsuckers at the ready to defend Pop to the death...or to perpetual mediocrity.

Congrats!

Sorry. WCFs <> mediocrity.

[tesseractive]

If Doc Rivers were our coach, Tiago would lead the league in blocks and rebounds, be the best help defender in the NBA, and suddenly have more post moves than Kevin McHale and a jump shot to boot.

Tim would be his waterboy, tbh.

[024]

you have to hand it to rivers for staying with his defense first mentality. even with their offense crashing and burning at times, rivers focused on defense and that is why he's able to take an even older boston team within one game of the finals. the offense first was fun to watch and garnered wins but once OKC figured out how to clamp down, the spurs ran into a wall, just like how the suns always ran into a defensive wall.

[SamoanTD]

Doc would have 4 rings Pop would have 1 where we going with this.

[kaji157]

What? I am not sure what you meant but Pop Spurs never had the picks Boston added to their big 3, not to say that the Spurs will end as the team that put up the better competition against the Thunder who will win the Finals in 4 or 5 games against either squad coming off the east.

[therealtruth]

Here's the deal IMO.

The people that are saying that Splitter is a shitty player only have to look at what Doc Rivers (and Scotti Brooks now) have done with Perkins. You want to know what Perkins has that Splitter doesn't?

Playing time. That is it.

Doc would have developed Tiago/Timmy as a tandem and the Spurs defense would have been a lot better.

Perkins is a slow footed dufus--but he has played tons and tons of minutes and he is going to the finals again. No mystery as to why---he had a coach who gave him all the playing time he needed because of ONE thing. His size.

Bynum is another example.

Some spurs fans cannot admit this and I understand because Pop has done a lot of good for S.A. I get it.

But would Pop help the Spurs more if he stepped back to be the GM?

It is a self-evident and obvious answer.

Unfortunately our big men fall into two categories. Either their hall of fame quality or they are scrubs. Pop just doesn't understand player development for bigs. He was actually allowing Splitter to develop pretty well till he got injured. Then he went back to messing with his minutes. I said at that time that was going to hurt them in the future.

[Blake]

Popsuckers at the ready to defend Pop to the death...or to perpetual mediocrity.

Congrats!

More labeling.

I'm labeling you as a labeler.

[FromWayDowntown]

Kendrick Perkins has played 9 NBA seasons; in his first two years in the league, he didn't even play 600 total minutes. Doc was the Celtics' coach in Perkins' second season and played him a total of 548 minutes in 60 games (and 28 total minutes in 6 playoff games) .

In 2011-12, Pop played Tiago Splitter, a second year player, more than 1,100 minutes in 59 games while averaging about 17 minutes in 13 playoff games. So, if you compare the players that way, Pop played Splitter twice as much as Doc played Perkins in comparable regular seasons and substantially more than Doc played Perkins in equivalent postseasons.

If you want to argue age, you can, but Perkins just turned 27 this year. So, at age 27, Perkins has finished 9 seasons in the NBA with several long playoff runs. At age 27, Splitter has finished two NBA seasons and has only once played postseason games beyond the first round.

Perkins didn't play 19+ minutes per game until his third season; Tiago played 19+ minutes per game in his second season.

Look, Pop has a some history with reluctance to play and develop inexperienced, raw big men. But I don't think there's any substance to a suggestion that Doc would have played Splitter substantially more than Pop did this year because Doc was willing to play Perkins a lot when Perkins was developing. When Doc had that chance, he didn't give Perkins minutes on a Celtics team that was barely better than .500 and had luminaries like Raef LaFrentz and Mark Blount getting the most minutes of any bigs on that roster.

History says there's no basis to argue that Pop would have never given a developing young big like Perkins minutes and Doc would have -- Doc had that chance early on in Perkins' career and elected against giving him minutes.

[therealtruth]

Kendrick Perkins has played 9 NBA seasons; in his first two years in the league, he didn't even play 600 total minutes. Doc was the Celtics' coach in Perkins' second season and played him a total of 548 minutes in 60 games (and 28 total minutes in 6 playoff games) .

In 2011-12, Pop played Tiago Splitter, a second year player, more than 1,100 minutes in 59 games while averaging about 17 minutes in 13 playoff games. So, if you compare the players that way, Pop played Splitter twice as much as Doc played Perkins in comparable regular seasons and substantially more than Doc played Perkins in equivalent postseasons.

If you want to argue age, you can, but Perkins just turned 27 this year. So, at age 27, Perkins has finished 9 seasons in the NBA with several long playoff runs. At age 27, Splitter has finished two NBA seasons and has only once played postseason games beyond the first round.

Perkins didn't play 19+ minutes per game until his third season; Tiago played 19+ minutes per game in his second season.

Look, Pop has a some history with reluctance to play and develop inexperienced, raw big men. But I don't think there's any substance to a suggestion that Doc would have played Splitter substantially more than Pop did this year because Doc was willing to play Perkins a lot when Perkins was developing. When Doc had that chance, he didn't give Perkins minutes on a Celtics team that was barely better than .500 and had luminaries like Raef LaFrentz and Mark Blount getting the most minutes of any bigs on that roster.

History says there's no basis to argue that Pop would have never given a developing young big like Perkins minutes and Doc would have -- Doc had that chance early on in Perkins' career and elected against giving him minutes.

Perkins came into the NBA out of high school not at Tiago's age.

[dbreiden83080]

We were not beating the Thunder for 2 reasons..

Their stars were too young for us, they could play almost the whole way at a high level.. Prime Duncan gets Spurs out of that series..

Tony was not up to the task. Nomatter who was coach Tony didn't have it when we needed it..

[cd98]

Thunder were on fire and played with poise.

That said, HeAt in six.

[Blake]

What would be the results?

Would Pop have taken the celtics this far in the playoffs?
Would Pop have ever developed Perkins since Perkins has no inside game to speak of?
Would Pop have played Allen on a bum ankle?
Would Pop have beaten the sixers?


Would Doc have the Spurs in the finals now?
Would Doc have paired Splitter and Duncan from early in the season and had them develop chemistry together?
Would Doc have been schooled by Lionel Hollins and Scotti Brooks?
Would Doc have allowed Patty Mills to just be the 2nd string point guard since that was the only other true point guard on the team?



Discuss.

Doc sucker

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Doc sucker

No shit. His team of TOSBs lugged out in the Conf Finals just like we did.

[DMC]

Those players would not play for Pop. The first time he yelled at KG or Pierce, he would be fired or punched or threatened or all three.

With Doc, Tim would have been tired or injured by the playoffs and we likely have a middle of the pack seed, and get ousted in the 1st round by the Thunder.