And the starting PG on your 2012 NBA champion is...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Mario Chalmers!

:lmao point guards
:lmao doubters of my theory
:lmao teams building around point guards
:lmao Jay Bilas is gonna say the NBA is a point guard's league when the draft roles around
:lmao Mario Chalmers having more rings than CP3, D-Will, Nash, and D-Rose combined

[Killakobe81]

Mario Chalmers!

:lmao point guards
:lmao doubters of my theory
:lmao teams building around point guards
:lmao Jay Bilas is gonna say the NBA is a point guard's league when the draft roles around
:lmao Mario Chalmers having more rings than CP3, D-Will, Nash, and D-Rose combined

:toast

[TE]

This PG theory gets more and more true through the years. You thought this up yourself, DOK?

If so, props.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Derek Fisher
:lol the ultimate testament to the DoK Theory
:lol 8 finals appearances
:lol 5 championship rings

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

This PG theory gets more and more true through the years. You thought this up yourself, DOK?

If so, props.
Watching the Suns continuously fall short every year with a team built around their PG led me to the observation :lol

[TE]

Watching the Suns continuously fall short every year with a team built around their PG led me to the observation :lol

Oh...:lol

[dbreiden83080]

Westbrook 4/20 tonight..


He is gonna become Iverson if it kills him..

[mercos]

To be fair, Lebron James is more the Heat point guard than Mario Chalmers.

[scanry]

Unlike BR's NBA rigged smack, Dok's smack is legit.

Props bro. :toast

[Josepatches_]

To be fair, Lebron James is more the Heat point guard than Mario Chalmers.


Yeah, LeBron Magic James

[Jeremy]

Tbh, though, Heat would have won last year if the Suns had traded Nash to them at the deadline.

[Stalin]

dok with the goods

[crc21209]

Chalmers may not be the "picture perfect" PG, but the guy is solid. He plays solid D and is a cold blooded motherfucker who isnt afraid of the big stage and to take big shots....

[Kai]

HS champ, NCAA, NBA. Winz gamez

[crc21209]

HS champ, NCAA, NBA. Winz gamez

"All he does is win games, all he does is win games." -Skip Bayless :lol

[Jacob1983]

Game 2 2011 NBA Finals

[Latarian Milton]

teams built around PG's never won championships since magic johnson tbh

[racm]

teams built around PG's never won championships since magic johnson tbh

Magic had Kareem and Worthy tbh

Wouldn't rack up as many assists if he didn't have those two and Byron Scott tbh

[sendman]

teams built around PG's never won championships since magic johnson tbh

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZKdI9473HoExtOOT6QJAKazyAPuk2P nIzZV6SXZ4z_pA5aLbqiQ


Isiah Thomas says HI!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

To be fair, Lebron James is more the Heat point guard than Mario Chalmers.
Lebron is a 6'8" 260 pound guard? I thought he played most small forward with some power forward. Thanks for letting me know he's a point guard!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh, though, Heat would have won last year if the Suns had traded Nash to them at the deadline.
Nash would be nothing more than a spot up shooting role player on the Heat so that doesn't disprove my theory.

[Clipper Nation]

teams built around PG's never won championships since magic johnson tbh

Bad Boy Pistons, '04 Pistons, maybe the '07 Spurs, and the 2013 Clippers say hi, tbh....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Bad Boy Pistons, '04 Pistons, maybe the '07 Spurs, and the 2013 Clippers say hi, tbh....
The 2004 Pistons weren't built around any one particular player. The Wallace towers were just as if not more important Billups. People think the way Billups dominated the 2004 finals was how he dominated all of the 2004 season. By no stretch of the imagination were the 2004 Pistons built around Billups.

The 2007 Spurs were Tim Duncan's team. The fact Tony Parker won MVP of a 4 game series against the shittiest finals team of all time because Duncan didn't give enough of a shit to play hard against them doesn't change that. Even outside of Duncan Manu got the ball over Parker at crucial moments.

The Bad Boy Pistons were the last team built around their point guard to win a championship.

[Clipper Nation]

Chauncey was the heart and soul of that team tbh.... I truly think they wouldn't have been nearly as good without his distribution and clutch shots....

It's definitely rare for PG-focused teams to win titles, but not impossible.... CP3 can do it in the next few years tbh...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Chauncey was the heart and soul of that team tbh.... I truly think they wouldn't have been nearly as good without his distribution and clutch shots....
1) So you admit calling the 2007 Spurs a team built around its PG was wrong?

2) Billups was not the heart and soul of that team. He averaged under 6 assists and under 40% shooting in both the regular season and playoffs that year. Once he became a "true point guard" who averaged a lot more assists was when the Pistons started losing early in the playoffs. He happened to get a matchup in the finals against a team that couldn't defend pick and rolls to save its life so he was able to whore them. That's how the Pistons that year worked they looked for scoring simply by whichever player had the best matchup. No shit they wouldn't have been nearly as good without him, but that doesn't make it so they were built around him.

[scanry]

The 2004 Pistons weren't built around any one particular player. The Wallace towers were just as if not more important Billups. People think the way Billups dominated the 2004 finals was how he dominated all of the 2004 season. By no stretch of the imagination were the 2004 Pistons built around Billups.

The 2007 Spurs were Tim Duncan's team. The fact Tony Parker won MVP of a 4 game series against the shittiest finals team of all time because Duncan didn't give enough of a shit to play hard against them doesn't change that. Even outside of Duncan Manu got the ball over Parker at crucial moments.

The Bad Boy Pistons were the last team built around their point guard to win a championship.

Isiah wasn't that good and no way can you can say that the team was built around him. They were a bad bad team who roughed the league. :lol

Magic was the only point guard who i would build a team around in any decade.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's definitely rare for PG-focused teams to win titles, but not impossible.... CP3 can do it in the next few years tbh...
It hasn't happened in over 20 years, and like so many other people have tried before, your "(insert point guard here) might do it soon!" hypothetical doesn't do jack shit to disprove anything. Stuff that hasn't happened yet doesn't do anything for your argument.

[Clipper Nation]

That team didn't begin and end in 04... they still made the ECF for years to come and even made it back to the Finals.... Chauncey had an MVP-worthy season in 06... they just didn't get it done after that even with the Wallace towers.....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Isiah wasn't that good and no way can you can say that the team was built around him. They were a bad bad team who roughed the league. :lol

Magic was the only point guard who i would build a team around in any decade.
Well I didn't exactly watch the Bad Boy Pistons but they were the last championship team where the point guard was the undisputed primary option on offense.

The Magic thing only helps my argument. The biggest shot of Magic's career was a game-winning sky hook in the most congested area of the court shot over two HOF 7 footers. It's safe to say CP3, D-Will, D-Rose, Rondo, Nash, etc. won't be making that kind of shot anytime soon. The primary reason behind my argument is the fact PGs are the shortest players on the court, so when the exception to my argument was a 6'9" point guard, that only makes sense.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That team didn't begin and end in 04... they still made the ECF for years to come and even made it back to the Finals.... Chauncey had an MVP-worthy season in 06... they just didn't get it done after that even with the Wallace towers.....
In 2004, when they won a championship, it was by no stretch of the imagination built around Billups. The fact Billups had an MVP season 2 years later doesn't do anything to disprove my theory about teams built around PGs not winning championships, in fact it only strengthens my theory since the Pistons started losing in the ECF once Billups became an MVP candidate.

As I've said before, if winning 50+ games, making the playoffs and then losing in the playoffs is your goal, then building around your PG is a great strategy :tu

[scanry]

^ the Bad Boys of 1988-1990 were very reminiscent of the 2003-2005 Pistons squad. Jam can elaborate on this because they were identically built and basically Ben & Rasheed were Rodman & Laimbeer, Tayshawn & Hamilton were Dumars & Vinnie and Billups was Isiah. :wow

Now that's why none of those squads were built around the Point Guard. And they were extremely well coached. They both had the toughest coaches and Daly & Brown really got on them. I'll say this, the Spurs were very lucky to have beaten that 2005 Pistons team. That series could've gone either way because of Duncan's injury. I'm glad Manu came to play in the finals unlike Parker.

I remember during that finals series, Piston fans were really upset with Larry Brown. He was looking way ahead of the finals and he came very close to coach Lebron in Cleveland.

[mercos]

Lebron is a 6'8" 260 pound guard? I thought he played most small forward with some power forward. Thanks for letting me know he's a point guard!


Point guard (PG), also called the one, play maker or "the ball-handler," is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game and is commonly abbreviated "PG." A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football.

I would say that definition accurately describes what Lebron James does. I know he is listed as a small forward, but as we know from Duncan's listing as a power forward, those terms are not always accurate. Lebron James runs his team's offense. In the past people have called the position "point forward" for players such as Grant Hill and Scottie Pippen. A more fine tuned argument would be that a team can not win when their best player is short.

[lefty]

The reason why PG based teams cant win today is because today's best PGs suck in comparison to the best PGs from, let's say, the 80's

Isiah and Magic could carry a team to a title



CP3, Deron, etc, are a bunch of faggots compared to them

[gambit1990]

Point guard (PG), also called the one, play maker or "the ball-handler," is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game and is commonly abbreviated "PG." A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football.

I would say that definition accurately describes what Lebron James does. I know he is listed as a small forward, but as we know from Duncan's listing as a power forward, those terms are not always accurate. Lebron James runs his team's offense. In the past people have called the position "point forward" for players such as Grant Hill and Scottie Pippen. A more fine tuned argument would be that a team can not win when their best player is short.

this.

[Clipper Nation]

CP3, Deron, etc, are a bunch of faggots compared to them
Don't lump CP3 da gawd in with lesser PG's like Deron tbh.... if anyone's gonna lead their team to a title from that position, it's gonna be Chris Paul... he's like a coach out there tbh... plus he has a dominant big in Blake Griffin who's only gonna get better...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Point guard (PG), also called the one, play maker or "the ball-handler," is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game and is commonly abbreviated "PG." A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football.

I would say that definition accurately describes what Lebron James does. I know he is listed as a small forward, but as we know from Duncan's listing as a power forward, those terms are not always accurate. Lebron James runs his team's offense. In the past people have called the position "point forward" for players such as Grant Hill and Scottie Pippen. A more fine tuned argument would be that a team can not win when their best player is short.
So Lebron is a point forward. That's not a point guard. Thanks for clarifying. Point guards don't play in the post and down low as much as Lebron does. You're either being deliberately naive or you're incredibly stupid.

Only an idiot thinks handling the ball the most and running the offense = point guard. By that logic virtually the best perimeter player on every team is a point guard.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The reason why PG based teams cant win today is because today's best PGs suck in comparison to the best PGs from, let's say, the 80's

Isiah and Magic could carry a team to a title



CP3, Deron, etc, are a bunch of faggots compared to them
Which point guards other than Isiah and Magic have been the best player on a championship team? The NBA has more talent at the PG position than it has in its history, yet Mario Chalmers is still winning a championship. Magic and Isiah were the exceptions, not the standard.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Don't lump CP3 da gawd in with lesser PG's like Deron tbh.... if anyone's gonna lead their team to a title from that position, it's gonna be Chris Paul... he's like a coach out there tbh... plus he has a dominant big in Blake Griffin who's only gonna get better...
Blake Griffin will always be bothered by bigger and longer defenders as an undersized power forward.

For all the confidence you have about Chrissy leading a team to a championship, he's never advanced past the 2nd round of the playoffs, so it's illogical to act like it's a sure thing Paul can take a team to a championship. Game 7 against San Antonio in 2008 shows how limited Paul is as a closer in playoff games.

:lol deferring to Jannero Pargo in the biggest game of his career.

[Clipper Nation]

When he was healthy this year, he was a great playoff closer for us tbh... very clutch against Memphis... but then he got injured...

Griffin's already a yearly 20/10 guy off mostly athleticism... great passer for a big man too, and more confident with his jump shot now... when he starts hitting his free throws more and polishing his post moves, dude's gonna be a straight-up dominant beast tbh....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You can blame injuries all you want, the fact is that after 7 years in the NBA Paul has never taken a team past the 2nd round of the playoffs. You act like he's some kind of established winner and him leading a team to a championship is inevitable yet he hasn't even led a team to the conference finals.

[mavs>spurs]

when he starts hitting his free throws more and polishing his post moves, dude's gonna be a straight-up dominant beast tbh....

people also said that about dwight howard and it never happened.

[Clipper Nation]

It's all about work ethic really... Griffin is a hard worker tbh... I think he can make the leap to an all-around dominant big man on offense and at least a passable defender...

[mavs>spurs]

but what about his wang, can it get any bigger if you keep on sucking it?

[Clipper Nation]

Chill with that, B... just sayin' he's a beast... :lol

[tesseractive]

Well I didn't exactly watch the Bad Boy Pistons but they were the last championship team where the point guard was the undisputed primary option on offense.

The Magic thing only helps my argument. The biggest shot of Magic's career was a game-winning sky hook in the most congested area of the court shot over two HOF 7 footers. It's safe to say CP3, D-Will, D-Rose, Rondo, Nash, etc. won't be making that kind of shot anytime soon. The primary reason behind my argument is the fact PGs are the shortest players on the court, so when the exception to my argument was a 6'9" point guard, that only makes sense.

To add to your argument, Magic had the body of a small forward. That was probably his most natural position. But since there wasn't much in the way of super-quick Chris Pauls or Russell Westbrooks in the league, the Lakers didn't feel like they had to play a little dude defensively and call Magic a "point forward."

Even if you call Billups the best player on the Pistons -- and I think it's defensible -- both groups of Pistons that won the title did it with a full team effort, and not because they had the one guy that dominated. So call those teams the exception that proves the rule.

[mercos]

So Lebron is a point forward. That's not a point guard. Thanks for clarifying. Point guards don't play in the post and down low as much as Lebron does. You're either being deliberately naive or you're incredibly stupid.

Only an idiot thinks handling the ball the most and running the offense = point guard. By that logic virtually the best perimeter player on every team is a point guard.


You are arguing semantics and being naive yourself. Point forward is what some fans and commentators called it, but such a position does not technically exist. I am curious to know what your definition of a point guard is? Outside of handling the ball and running the offense, what do you think they do?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You are arguing semantics and being naive yourself. Point forward is what some fans and commentators called it, but such a position does not technically exist. I am curious to know what your definition of a point guard is? Outside of handling the ball and running the offense, what do you think they do?
Point guard is the player who starts at point guard, which obviously isn't Lebron since he starts at forward.

Please tell me, are point guards generally of the 6'8" 260 pound stature? Do you legitimately consider Lebron a point guard who debunks my theory that the Chris Pauls, Rajon Rondos, Steve Nashs, and Derrick Roses of the NBA will never lead a team to a championship? It's obvious you're being purposefully obtuse to try and dispute an argumen you can't dispute with a logical and intellectually honest counter. It's intellectually dishonest to say, "Hurp durp Lebron handles the ball and runs the offense so he's a PG who proves you're theory wrong hurp durp!" Most of the time people who grasp at straws to dispute my PG theory have a short man's complex which is why they're in loves with point guards because they like seeing successful short people. I'm guessing you're one of them.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's all about work ethic really... Griffin is a hard worker tbh... I think he can make the leap to an all-around dominant big man on offense and at least a passable defender...
Work ethic won't compensate for the fact Griffin is an undersized power forward who will always struggle against bigger and longer defenders.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

To add to your argument, Magic had the body of a small forward. That was probably his most natural position. But since there wasn't much in the way of super-quick Chris Pauls or Russell Westbrooks in the league, the Lakers didn't feel like they had to play a little dude defensively and call Magic a "point forward."

Even if you call Billups the best player on the Pistons -- and I think it's defensible -- both groups of Pistons that won the title did it with a full team effort, and not because they had the one guy that dominated. So call those teams the exception that proves the rule.
As I said already, the biggest shot of Magic's career was a shot CP3, D-Will, Rose, Nash, Rondo, etc. would never dream of shooting. Teams need a franchise player who can make tough shots in traffic at crucial moments. When your franchise player in barely 6 feet tall, you have no one to go to for big shots in traffic against good defensive teams.

[Spurs da champs]

LeBron is more of the Heat PG then Chalmers don't deny it, Chalmers is mostly just a spot up shooter.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

LeBron is more of the Heat PG then Chalmers don't deny it, Chalmers is mostly just a spot up shooter.
So basically what you're saying is the Heat won by making their starting point guard a spot up shooter who plays mostly off ball while they made their 6'8" 260 pound small forward the play maker who has the ball at important times.

Thanks for only adding onto my argument :tu

[mercos]

Point guard is the player who starts at point guard, which obviously isn't Lebron since he starts at forward.

Please tell me, are point guards generally of the 6'8" 260 pound stature? Do you legitimately consider Lebron a point guard who debunks my theory that the Chris Pauls, Rajon Rondos, Steve Nashs, and Derrick Roses of the NBA will never lead a team to a championship? It's obvious you're being purposefully obtuse to try and dispute an argumen you can't dispute with a logical and intellectually honest counter. It's intellectually dishonest to say, "Hurp durp Lebron handles the ball and runs the offense so he's a PG who proves you're theory wrong hurp durp!" Most of the time people who grasp at straws to dispute my PG theory have a short man's complex which is why they're in loves with point guards because they like seeing successful short people. I'm guessing you're one of them.

No, and I never said he was of that ilk. Generally, point guards are short, fast players, but as Magic Johnson proved that doesn't have to be the case. I actually agree with your theory overall, especially after seeing the way the Spurs were dismantled this year in the Conference Finals. Basketball is a big man's game, that much has been obvious since the sport was invented. I only disagree with using Miami as an example, because Lebron is the de facto point guard of that team. He is an abberation, an exception to the rule because he is a point guard trapped in a power forward's body.

[lefty]

Which point guards other than Isiah and Magic have been the best player on a championship team? The NBA has more talent at the PG position than it has in its history, yet Mario Chalmers is still winning a championship. Magic and Isiah were the exceptions, not the standard.

Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier


And there is no standard anyway

Sometimes its a C (Hakeem) sometimes its a SG ( Jordan), SF (Bird), a PF (Tim) or a PG

There is no hard rule

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier
Bob Cousy won championships in a prehistoric league that had like 8 teams and didn't play basketball at all like it's played today :lol. His teams also had like 4+ hall of famers on all of them. Do you really think Bob Cousy was any better than CP3 or Deron Williams and do you really think he'd be capable of leading a team to a championship in today's NBA?

Regardless, just for the sake of argument, what year was Cousy the best player on one of Boston's title teams? I can't wait to hear this.

Regarding Frazier, I'll give you 1973, but lets not forget how stacked it was. DeBusschere, Monroe, Bradley, Reed (old though), etc. That team was more loaded than any salary cap era team ever will be.

[Clipper Nation]

Also, neither team had any great centers in this series tbh... that doesn't mean you can't build a championship team around a center... positions are kind of overrated in basketball nowadays anyway since there's mad versatile players in the league now...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol acting like my theory is based off just this series and not the last 20+ years.

:lol worried my theory is correct because it means the Clips aren't winning shit as currently constructed

[lefty]

Bob Cousy won championships in a prehistoric league that had like 8 teams and didn't play basketball at all like it's played today :lol. His teams also had like 4+ hall of famers on all of them. Do you really think Bob Cousy was any better than CP3 or Deron Williams and do you really think he'd be capable of leading a team to a championship in today's NBA?

Regardless, just for the sake of argument, what year was Cousy the best player on one of Boston's title teams? I can't wait to hear this.

Regarding Frazier, I'll give you 1973, but lets not forget how stacked it was. DeBusschere, Monroe, Bradley, Reed (old though), etc. That team was more loaded than any salary cap era team ever will be.
You agreed with me on Magic, but the Lakers were stacked too

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You agreed with me on Magic, but the Lakers were stacked too
Never said they weren't.....

[Clipper Nation]

:lol acting like my theory is based off just this series and not the last 20+ years.

:lol worried my theory is correct because it means the Clips aren't winning shit as currently constructed

Dawg, I don't care WHO we're building around if it gets us a ring, tbh... if Griffin has to surpass CP3 as leader/cornerstone, so be it...

[lefty]

Never said they weren't.....

True true