Public Option

[DMX7]

To those crying about the public mandate:

Your bullshit complaints are just that - bullshit. You could have had a public option that no one would have been forced to take and that no one would have been penalized for not providing to their employees, but defeating anything associated with Obama is more important than thinking independently or rationally, so this is what you got. You pathetic sheep have wet the bed again - now you can lie in it, mother fuckers.

:elephant

[Clipper Nation]

Yeah, we should all just shut up and accept government healthcare tbh... it'll be just as successful as their forays into social security and central banking...

[ElNono]

For profit medicine is proven to work... if you have the money...

[CosmicCowboy]

We are all in this together bitch. I decided to hell with the country. You young liberal dummies can keep voting this shit in and keep spending money that we don't have...me...my income will go up $50,000 a year under Obamacare and I'll be collecting medicare in 8 years so pffffft....I'm set and you bleeding heart bitches get to pay for it.

[ElNono]

We are all in this together bitch. I decided to hell with the country. You young liberal dummies can keep voting this shit in and keep spending money that we don't have...me...my income will go up $50,000 a year under Obamacare and I'll be collecting medicare in 8 years so pffffft....I'm set and you bleeding heart bitches get to pay for it.

If we're going broke "spending the money we don't have", those $50,000 will be worth no more than a big roll of toilet paper...

[CosmicCowboy]

If we're going broke "spending the money we don't have", those $50,000 will be worth no more than a big roll of toilet paper...

LOL

I won't be keeping that extra $50,000 in dollars. Most of my investments are in land, hard assets, etc.

[ElNono]

I won't be keeping that extra $50,000 in dollars. Most of my investments are in land, hard assets, etc.

Land in America is still priced in dollars. Going with gold or other currency might help. Then again, nothing is happening so I'm just glad Barrycare is saving you money. :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

Land in America is still priced in dollars. Going with gold or other currency might help. Then again, nothing is happening so I'm just glad Barrycare is saving you money. :tu

They may be priced in dollars but land and hard assets typically track inflation. Now if anybody will have enough wheelbarrows of dollars to buy my investments is another story...:(

[ElNono]

They may be priced in dollars but land and hard assets typically track inflation. Now if anybody will have enough wheelbarrows of dollars to buy my investments is another story...:(

With land is tricky, because it's not a portable asset. It would basically be priced out of whatever market is there. Eventually, though, the price will come down simply because there will be no buyers willing to pay that price, so the realistic value of the property just isn't there anymore.

Now, gold or other currencies... that's a different story.

[baseline bum]

We are all in this together bitch. I decided to hell with the country. You young liberal dummies can keep voting this shit in and keep spending money that we don't have...me...my income will go up $50,000 a year under Obamacare and I'll be collecting medicare in 8 years so pffffft....I'm set and you bleeding heart bitches get to pay for it.

Paul Ryan would still have us paying for your Medicare too, so I don't see the plus side of voting GOP tbh.

[PublicOption]

you called?

Il1vY2IQATs

[SnakeBoy]

We are all in this together bitch. I decided to hell with the country. You young liberal dummies can keep voting this shit in and keep spending money that we don't have...me...my income will go up $50,000 a year under Obamacare and I'll be collecting medicare in 8 years so pffffft....I'm set and you bleeding heart bitches get to pay for it.

How are you getting 50k from Obamacare?

There is supposed to be more $ for primary care physicians that practice preventative medicine which exactly describes my wife but we haven't seen any yet.

I developed the same attitude as you a couple of years ago. That's why I don't really disagree with Robert's decision. He basically left it for the people to decide what they want. I'm set & I don't have kids so what do I care.

Tbh, I'm torn between my political views and my personal situation. I'm just playing the market and at my current pace I'll be genuinely wealthy in 2-3 years so I kind of want things to just stay messed up the way they are. Volatile markets are easy money.

[Jacob1983]

How can you force a human to buy something?

How would liberals feel if every American had to pay a tax so that every American could have a free Bible courtesy of Uncle Sam? Just imagine the looks on their faces.

[ElNono]

Every American won't use the bible, but every American will need to use healthcare sooner or later...

[boutons_deux]

"shut up and accept government healthcare"

You Lie

public option is insurance, not health care.

however, you we really wanted to reduce the blood-sucking medical costs, then provide no-profit govt salaried doctors and facilities. that might even force down the prices of the greedy for-profit bastards.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We are all in this together bitch. I decided to hell with the country. You young liberal dummies can keep voting this shit in and keep spending money that we don't have...me...my income will go up $50,000 a year under Obamacare and I'll be collecting medicare in 8 years so pffffft....I'm set and you bleeding heart bitches get to pay for it.

And then you look at the voting block and who actually votes. This clusterfuck from the primary system on down is the product of baby boomers who make up over a fourth of the electorate and a higher proportion who actually vote.

Young people did not vote for being forced to buy health care so that the old and dying generation can be eligible for coverage.

I think your, 'well I got mine but its your fault' line sums up your ethic perfectly. Greedy with no accountability is a nice touch.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How can you force a human to buy something?

How would liberals feel if every American had to pay a tax so that every American could have a free Bible courtesy of Uncle Sam? Just imagine the looks on their faces.

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/pubs/consumer/cb088.html

Really there are examples of government doing this all over the place and I get tired of people using rhetoric to replace critical thinking.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

How are you getting 50k from Obamacare?

There is supposed to be more $ for primary care physicians that practice preventative medicine which exactly describes my wife but we haven't seen any yet.

I developed the same attitude as you a couple of years ago. That's why I don't really disagree with Robert's decision. He basically left it for the people to decide what they want. I'm set & I don't have kids so what do I care.

Tbh, I'm torn between my political views and my personal situation. I'm just playing the market and at my current pace I'll be genuinely wealthy in 2-3 years so I kind of want things to just stay messed up the way they are. Volatile markets are easy money.

He's going to throw his employees under the bus by ending their health care when TX has no exchanges yet because of Perry.

[Clipper Nation]

Seriously, I might flip if I hear another baby boomer tell me how "spoiled" my generation is... we're paying for their healthcare and paying down the deficit they created, and can't find jobs because they fucked up the economy... and why? Because they feel entitled to government care, a big house they can't afford, expensive programs for everything, etc. Now THAT'S spoiled...

[Juggity]

How would liberals feel if every American had to pay a tax so that every American could have a free Bible courtesy of Uncle Sam? Just imagine the looks on their faces.

Separation of church and state (upheld by supreme court in multiple cases) makes this comparison invalid. Being compelled to buy healthcare does not violate separation of church and state as this example does.

[Nbadan]

ummmmmm.....yeah...

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/f/a/4/Romneycare-Upheld.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, we might have had a public option if Obama had been willing to fight for it. Forget being from Kenya, dude might be from France because he surrendered before the war had even started.

Then of course, we might have at least gotten the plan where you bought into medicare early but good ole Joe Lieberman decided to go directly against a plan he had previously supported because he's a son of a bitch with no actual backbone.

So glad Obama then tried to make up and play nice with Joe.

Fuck those guys.

[spursncowboys]

buying off or making up with joe?

[CosmicCowboy]

How are you getting 50k from Obamacare?

There is supposed to be more $ for primary care physicians that practice preventative medicine which exactly describes my wife but we haven't seen any yet.

I developed the same attitude as you a couple of years ago. That's why I don't really disagree with Robert's decision. He basically left it for the people to decide what they want. I'm set & I don't have kids so what do I care.

Tbh, I'm torn between my political views and my personal situation. I'm just playing the market and at my current pace I'll be genuinely wealthy in 2-3 years so I kind of want things to just stay messed up the way they are. Volatile markets are easy money.

Simple, I am currently paying $90,000 a year for employee health insurance. I will cancel their health insurance, give them enough of a raise to cover their part of the premiums (cost me about $20,000) under Obamacare and let you guys pick up the tab the rest of their premium. I buy myself a cadillac insurance plan and still put 50K back in my pocket.

[CosmicCowboy]

He's going to throw his employees under the bus by ending their health care when TX has no exchanges yet because of Perry.

Naaa....I'm not going to cancel it unless the new system is in place.

[CosmicCowboy]

With land is tricky, because it's not a portable asset. It would basically be priced out of whatever market is there. Eventually, though, the price will come down simply because there will be no buyers willing to pay that price, so the realistic value of the property just isn't there anymore.

Now, gold or other currencies... that's a different story.

I didn't do the inflation calculation but I know that we sold a ranch 4 years ago for $5000 an acre that we paid $300 an acre for in the 60's.

[101A]

Simple, I am currently paying $90,000 a year for employee health insurance. I will cancel their health insurance, give them enough of a raise to cover their part of the premiums (cost me about $20,000) under Obamacare and let you guys pick up the tab the rest of their premium. I buy myself a cadillac insurance plan and still put 50K back in my pocket.


Why are you doing this NOW? Prior to Obamacare there was no mandate to purchase healthcare for your employees, or subsidize it whatsoever. You, ostensibly, provided this benefit to help attract/retain good employees. What has changed in that regard? If anything, given the cost benefits associated with group vs. individual insurance plans - and with EVERY person now required to cover themselves and their families. By taking your ball and going home, you could FORCE valuable employees to look for work elsewhere ; in order to find the most affordable coverage for themselves.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why are you doing this NOW? Prior to Obamacare there was no mandate to purchase healthcare for your employees, or subsidize it whatsoever. You, ostensibly, provided this benefit to help attract/retain good employees. What has changed in that regard? If anything, given the cost benefits associated with group vs. individual insurance plans - and with EVERY person now required to cover themselves and their families. By taking your ball and going home, you could FORCE valuable employees to look for work elsewhere ; in order to find the most affordable coverage for themselves.

Are you serious? Yeah, I'm paying for insurance for my employees because it's the right thing to do. It looks like the obamaqcare insurance will be even better than what I can afford and the federal government picks up the bulk of the premium. My employees still get insurance that costs them nothing, it's just the taxpayers that pay for it now instead of me.

[Wild Cobra]

I can't blame you at all CC. This is the type of thing we talked about when this all began. Employers forcing the employees on the option government run healthcare.

I wonder how many employers total will do this, and how much our deficits will increase?

[ElNono]

I didn't do the inflation calculation but I know that we sold a ranch 4 years ago for $5000 an acre that we paid $300 an acre for in the 60's.

You're talking a period of stable, growing economy. We're talking shit hitting the fan, hyperinflation, etc.

[MannyIsGod]

Are you serious? Yeah, I'm paying for insurance for my employees because it's the right thing to do. It looks like the obamaqcare insurance will be even better than what I can afford and the federal government picks up the bulk of the premium. My employees still get insurance that costs them nothing, it's just the taxpayers that pay for it now instead of me.

I applaud you for what you do for your employees. If more people had your mindset we'd be better off.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I fail to see how the statute does not put undue burden on companies employing less than 50 people is some sort of anathema. Given all the windfall that large businesses have gotten I fail to see other than partisan bullshit why similar windfall to small entrepreneurs is bad.

If CC wants a cookie because he is currently buying his employees health insurance thats great but the vast majority of small business cannot afford to buy insurance at the current unregulated rates.

If that means that smaller companies such as his get less financial strain then great too. if he turns around and pays himself out from that $50k then he very well likely will fall into the category of those that will be seeing a tax increase and the same will happen if he decides to invest it because capital gains is also seeing a hike.

All I see is a GOP sycophant parroting the litany that this is going to see a tax hike on the middle class. I am just trying to figure out which specific part of the ACA is supposed to do this.


PPACA does not explicitly mandate an employer to offer employees acceptable health insurance. However, certain employers with at least 50 full-time equivalent employees will face penalties, beginning in 2014, if one or more of their full-time employees obtains a premium credit through an exchange.1 As described in greater detail below, an individual may be eligible for a premium credit either because the employer does not offer coverage or the employer offers coverage that is either not “affordable” or does not provide “minimum value.”


Currently the Medicare tax rate is a flat 2.9% on all wage income, with both the employer and the employee paying exactly one-half of this amount. Starting in 2013, the flat 2.9% Medicare tax will continue to apply to wages under $200,000 (or under $250,000 for married couples filing a joint return). There will be an additional 0.9% Medicare tax on wages over $200,000 ($250,000 for joint filers). This additional tax is to be withheld from wages, or if not withheld, it is to be paid directly by the employee. This additional Medicare tax also effects self-employed persons paying the self-employment tax.


HR 4872 modifies the health care act to impose the expanded 3.8% Medicare tax on investment income for people with income over $200,000 (or $250,000 for joint filers). Investment income for the purposes of the Medicare tax base would include interest, dividends, royalties, rent, passive activity income (such as income passed-through from partnerships and S-corporations), and gain from the sale of property. This additional Medicare tax is technically called the unearned income Medicare contribution tax.

and to the contrary:


Businesses employing 25 employees or less may become eligible for tax credits of up to 35% based on employer-paid health insurance premiums. Larger employers who fail to provide health insurance coverage may become liable for tax penalties.

[Nbadan]

You're talking a period of stable, growing economy. We're talking shit hitting the fan, hyperinflation, etc.

Landholders have taken a bath with this recession too.....I know my holding have and unless CC owns land in the oi/gas boom parts, he probably is too...

[Wild Cobra]

Landholders have taken a bath with this recession too.....I know my holding have and unless CC owns land in the oi/gas boom parts, he probably is too...
I disagree.

I would say many land speculators have taken a bath, but not those who invest in land for the long term.

[Nbadan]

I disagree.

I would say many land speculators have taken a bath, but not those who invest in land for the long term.

I don't speculate and my land value has taken a 30-40% hit....I, like CC, don't plan on selling anytime soon but it is somewhat discomforting to see your land holding depreciate so much....I wonder why speculators aren't picking up on reasonably cheap land...cash is king...

[Wild Cobra]

I don't speculate and my land value has taken a 30-40% hit....I, like CC, don't plan on selling anytime soon but it is somewhat discomforting to see your land holding depreciate so much....I wonder why speculators aren't picking up on reasonably cheap land...cash is king...

Well, if you don't speculate, and were foolish enough to buy during a false rise during a period of speculation, then you deserve what you have.

Last time I checked, average asking prices for land and houses was still 30% greater than the long term trend allowed for. That was some time though, and we are probably close to or at the prices land should be in most areas now.

[TeyshaBlue]

I don't speculate and my land value has taken a 30-40% hit....I, like CC, don't plan on selling anytime soon but it is somewhat discomforting to see your land holding depreciate so much....I wonder why speculators aren't picking up on reasonably cheap land...cash is king...

That's a good damn question. I know I could pick up rental properties for .40 on the dollar right now, but the ones I already own are driving me crazy,:p: