Lorbek to re-sign with Barcelona (Update: Now a done deal)

[Bruno]

That's what Solobasket, a generally reliable website, is reporting. I'm putting a question mark because there is only one source for the moment.
http://www.solobasket.com/contenidos/erazem/lorbek/seguira/vistiendo/azulgrana/c-30026.html


It seems too that Barcelona offer is €3M per year (before taxes):
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120708/baloncesto/acb/oferton-record-barca-lorbek_54322023153.html

[Slomo]

My Spanish sucks, so I couldn't figure out how many years on the offered contract?

What are we talking about here? $2.5M - $2.8M after taxes?
Is this really outside of the Spurs' reach? Maybe money will not be the deciding factor here.

[smaka]

My Spanish sucks, so I couldn't figure out how many years on the offered contract?

What are we talking about here? $2.5M - $2.8M after taxes?
Is this really outside of the Spurs' reach? Maybe money will not be the deciding factor here.

Maybe his father will be, like many times before. Who knows...

[racm]

That's chump change right? Though I reckon the Spurs can't really offer much unless Diaw doesn't come back (and he's done well so far on the FNT).

[spursparker9]

Fuck Barcelona

[Redshadows]

Not a big deal.

The Spurs could use the MLE on Diaw. Diaw is better.

Still need a backup PF. No more Bonner and Blair, I hope.

[racm]

Yeah, the Q is who's the backup 4 as Diaw's a near lock unless he picks OKC or something :lol

[Bruno]

My Spanish sucks, so I couldn't figure out how many years on the offered contract?

What are we talking about here? $2.5M - $2.8M after taxes?
Is this really outside of the Spurs' reach? Maybe money will not be the deciding factor here.

I'm not sure exactly how much it's after tax. IMO, it's more around $2M because Spain is changing his tax rate on high salaries. My guesstimate is that Spurs should have offered $4M per year to match Barcelona offer.

[racm]

but that would be only a little lower than the non-taxpayer's MLE. The Spurs FO is at a dilemma here - do they want Diaw back or bringing Lorbek over?

[Redshadows]

Ronny Turiaf, Antawn Jamison, Nenad Krstic.

Is it possible Spurs could get one of them?

[racm]

Turiaf's not a bad prospect, he provides yet another French element to the Spurs even if he doesn't stretch the floor.

Jamison had a career low in FG% and 3p% IIRC, so he wouldn't be an upgrade to Bonner. The Bobcats look attractive to him due to him living in the Charlotte area in the offseason.

Krstic... what's his contract status in Europe?

[100%duncan]

Fuck him if he resigns with them.

[racm]

Eh, money talks.

[yavozerb]

http://projectspurs.com/2012-articles/july/repot-lorbek-re-signing-with-regal-barcelona.html

[freetiago]

bonner makes more then that
cant you just amensty his ass and sign lorbek

[ploto]

The second article mentions the Spurs looking for a center and lists Marcus Camby by name. Then, it discusses the Spurs situation of how much money they would have left for Lorbek.

It also says Lorbek was offered a deal by CSKA.

[ploto]

I'm not sure exactly how much it's after tax. IMO, it's more around $2M because Spain is changing his tax rate on high salaries. My guesstimate is that Spurs should have offered $4M per year to match Barcelona offer.

The one article says he will end up with about half after taxes- guess that would make about $1.85 million.

[mudyez]

bonner makes more then that
cant you just amensty his ass and sign lorbek

the thing with amnestizing players is, that Peter Holt still would have to pay for Bonner (or at least the difference of his current contract and whatever another team would pay him).
Lakers, Knicks, Nets ect. might not care, but we do (and thats just the way it is).

[Wild Cobra Kai]

the thing with amnestizing players is, that Peter Holt still would have to pay for Bonner (or at least the difference of his current contract and whatever another team would pay him).
Lakers, Knicks, Nets ect. might not care, but we do (and thats just the way it is).

Not to mention that it does not create any additional money to sign players with unless you are under the cap.

Nothing has changed. We have the MLE and the LLE to sign players that we don't have Bird rights or matching rights to. That means Diaw, Lorbek, and anyone new on the radar. We can also make trades. This is all exactly the same situation it was when the Spurs walked off the floor in OKC to end the season.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lorbek did re-sign in Europe. From the beginning, I've gotten almost the exact same vibe as the Boursis situation a while back. He strikes me as either a flake or an angler/manipulator.

[Russo21]

Fuck him anyway. Pop no longer trust newbie internationals to be a big factor, not since 2002 and 2003 has he done that. The guy may have talent that can transition to the NBA game, he may not, if he comes here he won't see any floor time anyway.

If i remember correctly he was chosen PF on the All Tournamnent team in FIBA Eurobasket. So he must have some talents.

If he enjoys the game of Basketball i recommend him signing with Barcelona instead of San Antonio cause he will actually get to keep playing minutes there.

[DPG21920]

If the dollar amount is true, then it's likely the Spurs just don't have him as a high priority (which is a little suprising due to his pedigree).

[Luxic]

bonner makes more then that
cant you just amensty his ass and sign lorbek

Amnestying Bonner still won't free any cap space, unless Duncan re-sings at less than $6M (which is not happening). MLE and BAE are all we can offer.

[Russo21]

Luxic if all we can offer is the MLE and BAE we can only bring in 2 new players? Or you can split those up for multiple people?

Looks like the Spurs are in for slim pickings this offseason in either case.

[Russo21]

We already have like 12 players on the roster, 13 when tim re-signs. Hope we use the amnesty and trade multiple players for a serious baller.

[Mel_13]

We'll never know whether the transfer of his NBA rights to San Antonio changed Lorbek's feelings about leaving Europe, or if he saw it as nothing more than a piece of very good fortune that would markedly improve his bargaining position with the richest European clubs. It really doesn't matter. What we do know as a near certainty is that Lorbek was never coming to San Antonio on the cheap.

Signing Lorbek would require using the majority of the MLE. That meant that there was no chance of signing Lorbek AND Diaw. It would come down to Lorbek OR Diaw.

In that case, signing Diaw is clearly the best option for the Spurs.

[CGD]

This reported "largest offer in club history" highlights how far euro basketball is from even the salary for a decent big is in the nba. If I'm Lorbek I take less money with the spurs (and really not that much less tbh) in the hopes of getting an Asik type pay day in two years.

Yes barca is one of te best cities in the world. One of my personal fave. But go back there once you truly get paid Lorbek!

[jyra]

I have to admit that I am not all that disappointed that he's not coming over. Signing Lorbek would have meant that the Spurs are all about offensive firepower and outscoring their opponents without addressing the needs on the defensive end. I hope the FO is now turning their attention to acquiring a more defensive minded big.

[dunkman]

Oh, no . . . they agreed but didn't sign the contract yet. I guess he's a gonner.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

If the dollar amount is true, then it's likely the Spurs just don't have him as a high priority (which is a little suprising due to his pedigree).

The Spurs rarely give out the full MLE to anyone. I think the last time was Horry. I don't recall them ever giving it to a player who's never played even one NBA minute. Even Manu, who had a much better international pedigree, took a two year deal for the LLE.

If Lorbek wants to come over, he'll have to prove himself to SA if he eventually wants to get paid. Doesn't sound like he wants to do that. He was only a trade throw in, anyway. Spurs took a shot, and he apparently wasn't interested.

Next.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Dice

OK, another proven NBA commodity. Good post D, very good rebounding, buttery jumper. They knew what they were getting.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Hey, where'd you go, AFB? :lol

[AFBlue]

Hey, where'd you go, AFB? :lol

Drive-by careless post by me. You caught me!

[TD 21]

If the dollar amount is true, then it's likely the Spurs just don't have him as a high priority (which is a little suprising due to his pedigree).

It's not at all surprising, as Wild Cobra Kai alluded to.

I'd have been fine with him coming, but I'm also fine that he's more than likely not, too, for a variety of reasons. 1) He never seemed anything more than lukewarm about coming to the NBA. You always talk about "guys who you can go to war with"; he doesn't strike me as the type. 2) He was always going to be an awkward fit defensively and never would have been more than the fourth big. 3) They need more athleticism, mobility and rim protection, amongst their bigs. Adding him to a big rotation with Duncan, Diaw and Splitter, only would have exacerbated those problems. 4) Diaw needs to be their priority. Not that I thought he was going anywhere anyway, but Lorbek not coming makes Diaw returning even closer to a lock.

[Venti Quattro]

Nice, he can go for the back to back at the Palau. :tu

[Slomo]

The one article says he will end up with about half after taxes- guess that would make about $1.85 million.

That would be correct for a straight up income tax, but I'm fairly confident that a good accountant can get you to pay less, but I don't think he could get much under 30%, that's why I guessed $2.5M as a best case scenario.

If he would have gone to Barcelona for a big paycheck I would have understood, but if the Spurs offer is in the same ballpark I will be disapointed that he at least didn't try to find out how good he really is.

Let's see if we can get some confirmation/better info tomorrow.

[therealtruth]

the thing with amnestizing players is, that Peter Holt still would have to pay for Bonner (or at least the difference of his current contract and whatever another team would pay him).
Lakers, Knicks, Nets ect. might not care, but we do (and thats just the way it is).

That's Peter Holt's money.

[DesignatedT]

For less than 2M / yr? Wow, I don't see how it wouldn't have been worth it to bring him over at that price.

[Mel_13]

For less than 2M / yr? Wow, I don't see how it wouldn't have been worth it to bring him over at that price.

That's one person's guess of what he's getting after taxes. Bruno estimated that the Spurs would have to offer around 4M to make the offers equivalent.

[CGD]

Well the marginal federal tax rate for the highest earners in 2012 the US is (an absurdly low) 35%. While his effective tax rate would actually be slightly lower than that, for ease of illustration let's use the marginal tax rate bc he'll make significantly more than $390k that it shouldnt impact the final tac liability that much anyway. That means that a comparable starting contract in the NBA would have to be around $3.1M. It helps that Texas ha no state taxes of course, or else the gross up would be more.

Barca is awesome, but if the money is the same? Come on and grow a pair and try your luck in the NBA.

[DesignatedT]

That's one person's guess of what he's getting after taxes. Bruno estimated that the Spurs would have to offer around 4M to make the offers equivalent.

Oh ok. Thanks.

[Budkin]

Bonner's not going anywhere. Book it.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Bonner's not going anywhere. Book it.

Not next year, but I'd guess they'll buy him out next summer for $1M for that final year, or trade him to someone who will.

[boutons_deux]

That's Peter Holt's money.

Holt only leads the investors' group, he does not put up all the money, afaik.

[Duncan2177]

Time to focus on Camby or Kaman.

[AFBlue]

Time to focus on Camby or Kaman.

According to Lorbek, that's where the focus has been all along.

[Duncan2177]

According to Lorbek, that's where the focus has been all along.

Ditto

[timvp]

Until we see the news that Lorbek chose Barcelona for another source, I'm going to take it with a giant grain of salt. If Lorbek really did sign one of the largest contracts in European basketball history, it'd be in more than one publication.

Anyways, Lorbek obviously wasn't the Spurs priority in this offseason so we can't be too sad if he decides to sign somewhere else. If the Spurs really, really wanted him, they wouldn't have told him to hold on while they chase 232-year-old Marcus Camby.

[Kobayagi]

I'm fairly confident that a good accountant can get you to pay less


I'm sure Barcelona can hook him up with Eto'o's accountant. (http://theafricancelebrityspy.blogspot.fr/2012/06/samuel-etoo-faces-jail-for-tax-fraud.html)

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Eto'o
:lol mercenary
:lol tax evader

[timvp]

Something I just noticed: Diaw and Lorbek share an agent (Diaw's primary agent is Lorbek's secondary agent). That probably makes it more difficult to squeeze both of them into the MLE. It also makes it impossible to negotiate with one of them without both hearing about it.

That could explain why the spurs are doing other work first (going after Camby and De Colo) before tackling Diaw and Lorbek.

[Big P]

Camby maybe, but Kaman is looking for $8 to $10 mil. per year.....Kamans not gonna happen.

[Bruno]

Until we see the news that Lorbek chose Barcelona for another source, I'm going to take it with a giant grain of salt. If Lorbek really did sign one of the largest contracts in European basketball history, it'd be in more than one publication.

Yep, that's wise. They published it 12 hours ago and no one else has confirmed it since that.

[CGD]

Seems like it was a game of chicken btwn Barca and Spurs to see who would make the offer first. Looks like spurs get a chance to see Barca's hand first.

[CGD]

Something I just noticed: Diaw and Lorbek share an agent (Diaw's primary agent is Lorbek's secondary agent). That probably makes it more difficult to squeeze both of them into the MLE. It also makes it impossible to negotiate with one of them without both hearing about it.

That could explain why the spurs are doing other work first (going after Camby and De Colo) before tackling Diaw and Lorbek.

Conflict of interest much?

[ploto]

It helps that Texas has no state taxes of course, or else the gross up would be more..

NBA players have to pay state income tax by state in which games are played. Over half would be in states without income tax but they have to pay proportionally for the rest by state.

[ploto]

That would be correct for a straight up income tax, but I'm fairly confident that a good accountant can get you to pay less, but I don't think he could get much under 30%, that's why I guessed $2.5M as a best case ...

Let's see if we can get some confirmation/better info tomorrow.

One article said something about part of the contract being under favorable tax terms but I have no idea how that would work.

[CGD]

NBA players have to pay state income tax by state in which games are played. Over half would be in states without income tax but they have to pay proportionally for the rest by state.

True, though, I would imagine the cumulative tax liability would still be less than if his tax-home was in a tax state (e.g., New York). Interestingly if a player's tax-home is tax state (e.g., New York), then the player would in all likelihood get a credit from each state he "works" in to offset the tax liability owed to them. But if your in Texas, Florida, or Tennessee (or another non-tax state), then the player does NOT get that credit.

[ploto]

True, though, I would imagine the cumulative tax liability would still be less than if his tax-home was in a tax state (e.g., New York). Interestingly if a player's tax-home is tax state (e.g., New York), then the player would in all likelihood get a credit from each state he "works" in to offset the tax liability owed to them. But if your in Texas, Florida, or Tennessee (or another non-tax state), then the player does NOT get that credit.

My understanding is that they have to file a state tax return in every state in which they play that has a state income tax.

[ElNono]

Can one of our slovenian friends comment on this?

http://kosarka.si/erazem-lorbek-najbolje-placani-kosarkar-v-zgodovini-barce/

[Slomo]

Can one of our slovenian friends comment on this?

http://kosarka.si/erazem-lorbek-najbolje-placani-kosarkar-v-zgodovini-barce/

A reprint of the Op's original info, and the same speculations that we are also making in this thread (best contract in Europe, 3M/year, CSKA and Spurs still an option...)

I looked around for a second source/confirmation and I didn't find anything, everybody is citing that one article.

[timvp]

I'm going to assume Lorbek hasn't decided. There'd be more confirmation out by now. Besides, the timing doesn't make some sense. Lorbek himself said the Spurs told him to wait while they take care of other business first. There's really no reason for him not to wait a week or two before deciding his next move.

[CGD]

My understanding is that they have to file a state tax return in every state in which they play that has a state income tax.

Thats my understanding too. But if one lives in a state with no income tax (eg Texas) that person may not be entitled to a credit for taxes paid in another state, whereas if the state does have an income a person still has to file taxes in hat state but would get some sort of credit for the liability.

For example, this past year I had to file in Maryland and Michigan (both income tax states). I received a tax credit from Maryland inthe amount of what my liability would have been bc I had abandoned my residence in Maryland. It's all minutia of course, but it goes to show there is more to the "no state taxes" consideration.

[BRs.Ganso]

Lorbek don't want be the next Splitter. :lol

[ElNono]

A reprint of the Op's original info, and the same speculations that we are also making in this thread (best contract in Europe, 3M/year, CSKA and Spurs still an option...)

I looked around for a second source/confirmation and I didn't find anything, everybody is citing that one article.

thanks Slomo :toast

[BatManu20]

Ronny Turiaf, Antawn Jamison, Nenad Krstic.

Is it possible Spurs could get one of them?

If that's our big move then we're screwed..

[BackHome]

I agree.......we need to make some moves and I don't know what they are but just signing Diaw is not going to get it done. We really need another scorer someone who's balls won't shrivel up come playoff time...ie..Boner.

[Ice009]

That's Peter Holt's money.

Don't the Spurs have an ownership group? Surely it doesn't all come out of Peter's pocket? How much of a percentage does Holt actually own anyway?

[Duncan2177]

If that's our big move then we're screwed..

Um Yeah

[Josepatches_]

Not a big deal.
He's not what we need

[SpurPadre]

Fuck 29 year old NBA rookies, any ways. We still got the better end of the deal in that trade with Indy.

[Bruno]

Another source that confirmed the news:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120709/baloncesto/acb/lorbek-se-queda-barca-regal-liga-endesa_54322187065.html

It seems that CSKA offered more money to Lorbek and Spurs didn't even make a formal offer for Lorbek.

[mudyez]

Fuck 29 year old NBA rookies, any ways. We still got the better end of the deal in that trade with Indy.

this

[timvp]

Another source that confirmed the news:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120709/baloncesto/acb/lorbek-se-queda-barca-regal-liga-endesa_54322187065.html

It seems that CSKA offered more money to Lorbek and Spurs didn't even make a formal offer for Lorbek.

Wow.

So is this 100% official now? I don't know the accuracy of these publications but these two sources combined make it look like a done deal.

[Bruno]

Wow.

So is this 100% official now? I don't know the accuracy of these publications but these two sources combined make it look like a done deal.

It's not official but it's a done deal.

[timvp]

It's not official but it's a done deal.

Well that sucks, tbh.

The Spurs may not have given him a formal offer but I'm sure they gave him a ballpark figure. It very well could have been the BAE. When Barcelona came back with a big offer, it probably became a no-brainer for him.

Like I said earlier, negotiating with him was probably more difficult and the Spurs couldn't keep him in a holding pattern since his agent is also Diaw's agent. If Diaw is being courted with the MLE, Lorbek would instantly know that the MLE wasn't in play for him.

It was always somewhat of a longshot to land Lorbek in San Antonio but I was looking forward to seeing how well he'd translate to the NBA game. Oh well.










P.S.

I have a looooooooong Lorbek preview written up that includes quotes from a Spurs scout that I was told couldn't be published until July 11 for "competitive reasons". Guess that's worthless now :depressed

[spurs10]

Assuming we bring back Diaw, and we passed on Lorbek in favor of a physical center, then it would appear obvious who our back-up 4's are going to be......ugh...

[Redshadows]

I just want to know who the physical center is.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Another source that confirmed the news:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120709/baloncesto/acb/lorbek-se-queda-barca-regal-liga-endesa_54322187065.html

It seems that CSKA offered more money to Lorbek and Spurs didn't even make a formal offer for Lorbek.

I don't know if this is a relevant view, but Mundo Deportivo (and Sport) publish all kinds of reports on "done deals"/"preliminary agreements" in soccer that turn out later to be just media hoaxes or empty speculations.

Without official confirmation, I will take this with a pinch of salt.

[timvp]

Tbh, the worst part about Lorbek not coming over is that means Bonner is very much still a part of the team :td

[Duncan2177]

Tbh, the worst part about Lorbek not coming over is that means Bonner is very much still a part of the team :td

SOB :bang

[jiggy_55]

Let's await official confirmation, those Spanish sports dailies come up with "confirmed, 100% done deal" news all the time and more than half of it turns out as bullshit. Let's hope this is the case cuz I can't stand seeing Bonner in black and white again.

[Slomo]

...
It seems that CSKA offered more money to Lorbek and Spurs didn't even make a formal offer for Lorbek.

No real offer from the Spurs? That's very surprising if true.

[Russo21]

Lorbek signing with a team where he can play the game he loves. Doesn't want to be the next Splitter riding the bench while watching Boner and Blair getting more PT then him. Good decision from Lorbek as he actually wants to play basketball, not just watch from the bench.

[Bruno]

It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.

[venitian navigator]

It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.

If that's true, that's very bad news for the Spurs...as it is the signing of Sanikidze in italy with Siena.
Lorbek was the only addition to last years team able to give us a real chance of improving, considering his skill set...and Diaw with the MLE if far above is actual market price.
I always thought that the way to sign them both was to split the MLE between them...but probably everything's been spoiled by the fact that the actual MLE is for a less amount of $ than last year.

I understand the Spurs choice to try to sign some already nba proven player, but this way we're gonna give up on the only way we always had to really improve : I mean signing foreign players with no nba experience but extremely valuable for their skills (a la Manu, Parker atc atc.).

Going on this way looks like the "draft and stash" strategy is never gonna work... didn't work for Scola, nor for Javtokas, nor for Sanikidze and now for Lorbeck... and all of them were prospects with nba skills more than a lot of supposedly "nba proven" players... The only positive example could be Splitter, but it's becoming clearer and clearer that, despite the numbers, Pop has some problems in developing his talents...

[mountainballer]

i guess it's easy to say that for the full MLE Lorbek would have signed, but not for a fraction of it.
so the Spurs did have other plans as well (Diaw, De Colo) and Lorbek wasn't the #1 priority.
might even open some other scenarios. for example: Diaw re signes for a compareable number like the Mini MLE would be. (some contenders might offer this). this would leave the Spurs with the chance to offer something like 3 years/6 million to a player like Camby. (small chance he takes it, he is almost Knicks bound, but still a better offer than vet. minimum or LLE).
and De Colo signs via LLE.

[temujin]

Let's see if I get this one right.

3 M Euros before taxes is about 1.6 M net, considering the changes Spain is -finally- putting to their tax legislation on the wealthy.
That's what? some $3/3,3 M before taxes?
It is mentioned that the CSKA offer was higher (no doubt about that), might be in the $ 5 M range before taxes (in Russia).

Siena's backup PG is going to Bilbao for $ 2M. Backup PG.

In another thread, we were talking here about something around $ 3 M.

If the Spurs are not capable to match Barça's offer, they were never really serious about Lorbek.
It might signal that between Diaw and Lorbek, they would go for the proven guy.
Diaw did play well, with his contract expiring.
He also did play well when the previous contract was expiring, to get a fat new one.
Once he got that, he got fatter than his contract.

Or it might signal that Lorbek was never really serious about going to the NBA.

[temujin]

It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.

It looks to me that the Spurs are far too aware of the European market to imagine Lorbek would sign for the LLE.
Probably Barça just matched what they presumed -or were told- would be Spurs offer.

[benefactor]

If that's true, that's very bad news for the Spurs...as it is the signing of Sanikidze in italy with Siena.
Lorbek was the only addition to last years team able to give us a real chance of improving, considering his skill set...and Diaw with the MLE if far above is actual market price.

No true...if players like Asik and Ryan Anderson are getting the contracts they are getting then Diaw for the MLE is a very good deal. He is also a known commodity that has shown his game meshes very well with what the Spurs do offensively. I would have liked to see Lorbek in a Spurs uni too, but Diaw is easily the better choice if one is forced to make one.

[racm]

I'd say Diaw for the MLE would be a bargain compared to the crazy deals Asik/Ryno got tbh.

You get a guy whose current position is PF but who actually plays all five positions, can hit shots near the basket or from beyond the arc, is a great passer to a fault (passes in favor of shooting), is an adequate rebounder, and just led a comeback against Britain.

[Mel_13]

It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.

This has been the obvious and predictable outcome for quite some time now. The Spurs had to choose between Diaw and Lorbek and Diaw was always the obvious choice. The tiny sliver of a chance of getting both was based on Lorbek signing for below market value and that was extremely unlikely. I'm just glad that it was resolved early so that the Spurs can move on with other targets for the BAE and anything that might be left from the MLE after signing Diaw.

It was worth a shot to acquire Lorbek's rights as a throw-in for free. In the end, his rights were worth exactly what the Spurs paid for them.

[Mel_13]

Or it might signal that Lorbek was never really serious about going to the NBA.

We'll never know for sure, although there was never any indication that going to the NBA was very important to him. I am certain that Lorbek and his agent celebrated when the Spurs obtained his NBA rights. Unlike the Pacers, the Spurs would be regarded as a legitimate suitor for his services and help to secure the best possible contract in Europe.

[Hoops Czar]

This is great news. The Spurs didn't need another un-athletic, non-rebounding, non-shotblocking power forward who doesn't like to draw contact and hasn't even proven he can play in the nba.

[Mel_13]

I'd say Diaw for the MLE would be a bargain compared to the crazy deals Asik/Ryno got tbh.

You get a guy whose current position is PF but who actually plays all five positions, can hit shots near the basket or from beyond the arc, is a great passer to a fault (passes in favor of shooting), is an adequate rebounder, and just led a comeback against Britain.

And while so many here forget everything that happened before those final 4 games, the Spurs won 15 consecutive games, including 10 playoff games, with Diaw starting next to Duncan.

[racm]

Yeah, until Game 3 the lineup of Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan was UNBEATEN.

[therealtruth]

Yeah, until Game 3 the lineup of Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan was UNBEATEN.

If anything I don't think Pop went with Leonard and Diaw enough in the last few games.

[therealtruth]

It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.

Makes perfect sense. Diaw is the better fit once he gets into shape. Just got to integrate him more into the offense. I would also like to see Splitter become the third big to substitute for Diaw-Duncan.

[Bruno]

It looks to me that the Spurs are far too aware of the European market to imagine Lorbek would sign for the LLE.

I'm sure they knew the LLE was below his European market value. Their only hope to get him for the LLE was if Lorbek was ready to take a paycut to sign in the NBA. It looks like he wasn't which was expected given that he has never been fascinated by the NBA.

[racm]

To be fair, since Diaw wasn't putting points on the board and Pop elected to go with more Jackson at the 3...

[therealtruth]

To be fair, since Diaw wasn't putting points on the board and Pop elected to go with more Jackson at the 3...

That's too simple of a way to look at it. Actually Diaw probably should have had the ball in his hands more. He could have probably helped setup some of the other guys like Danny Green who were struggling. Have Parker play off the ball and make Diaw the secondary playmaker. That way Manu wouldn't have had to start. It worked pretty well against the Clippers when they got the ball out of Parker's hands.

[racm]

It did, yeah. Pop panicked by putting Manu in as a starter when he clearly did better marshaling the second unit.

Miami always has at least one of its Big 3 on the court at any time. Same with OKC. Manu as a starter means he rests when Tony and Tim do, so you end up with a WORSE second unit than the oft-touted one seen through the late part of the season.

[K-State Spur]

If that's true, that's very bad news for the Spurs...as it is the signing of Sanikidze in italy with Siena.

Lorbek may be bad news, the second part is non-news.

[racm]

I have my doubts Lorbek was the Spurs' first option to look into, tbh...

They wanted to bring him over in case someone wooed Diaw, because the likely aim was to bring the gang back together. A rotation that got to the WCF even if two of those guys were added mid-season doesn't come along easily, and OKC has the advantage of having its young core having played multiple series together.

The Spurs starting five apart from Parker and Duncan were a guy who got cut by Cleveland and was in the D-League a few times, a rookie, and a guy who wasted years playing for the Bobcats.

[SenorSpur]

This is great news. The Spurs didn't need another un-athletic, non-rebounding, non-shotblocking power forward who doesn't like to draw contact and hasn't even proven he can play in the nba.

I tend to agree with this. If Pop was hell-bent on keeping Bonner on this roster - and I still don't know why - adding Lorbek would be a case of having a pair of bigs with redundant deficiencies. It would've made no sense at all.

Still, I wonder who this supposed physical center is the Spurs are going to get? Amazing that this need has gone public, when privately it's been a need for about 3 seasons now.

[Russo21]

have to start up the yiannas brontosaurus rumours again

[pad300]

P.S.

I have a looooooooong Lorbek preview written up that includes quotes from a Spurs scout that I was told couldn't be published until July 11 for "competitive reasons". Guess that's worthless now :depressed

Post the sucker anyways; it'd be interesting to see what the Spurs scouting department was looking for (and saw/didn't see). It'd make a nice cross check on the quality of some of our European posters...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This is amazingly bad news.
seeing Bonner go at it again is going to suck

[DesignatedT]

Bonner will be moved still.

[timtonymanu]

Tbh, the worst part about Lorbek not coming over is that means Bonner is very much still a part of the team :td

:bang

[TimDunkem]

Bonner will be moved still.

:lmao

[kaji157]

This is not a done Deal, i read a lot of Spanish nespapers and the situation is as this.
Eur teams know thatLorbek won´t decide his future untill after the July 11 date. Given that NBA teams are alloed to sign players at that date.
As of now Lorbek has an offer from Barcelona, a bigger offer from CSKA Moscu, and is awaiting to see what the Spurs are going to offer.

[ChumpDumper]

Going on this way looks like the "draft and stash" strategy is never gonna work... didn't work for Scola, nor for Javtokas, nor for Sanikidze and now for Lorbeck... and all of them were prospects with nba skills more than a lot of supposedly "nba proven" players... The only positive example could be Splitter, but it's becoming clearer and clearer that, despite the numbers, Pop has some problems in developing his talents...You forgot about Ginobili.

[MultiTroll]

You forgot about Ginobili.
I'm still in 2007.

[Knoxxx]

This is not a done Deal, i read a lot of Spanish nespapers and the situation is as this.
Eur teams know thatLorbek won´t decide his future untill after the July 11 date. Given that NBA teams are alloed to sign players at that date.
As of now Lorbek has an offer from Barcelona, a bigger offer from CSKA Moscu, and is awaiting to see what the Spurs are going to offer.

Thanks. The article said "tentative" right at the beginning. I guess the person changing the thread title and average Spurs poster does not know what a complex word like that means.

Hint: translate with Google Chrome

[Budkin]

Someone change the thread title back.

[timvp]

I changed the title. Unless Bruno wants me to change it back or someone can find a conflicting report, we'll keep the thread title as is. I know European sports reporting is more like tabloid journalism but having two different sources makes it sound pretty damn legit.

That said, I won't say it's 100% until we see an actual quote from Lorbek or the team.

[dunkman]

With 28, tbh he should have signed for 2-3 seasons at slightly lower rate, with the perspective of getting paid big-time in the next contract.

[dunkman]

If that's true, that's very bad news for the Spurs...as it is the signing of Sanikidze in italy with Siena.
Lorbek was the only addition to last years team able to give us a real chance of improving, considering his skill set...and Diaw with the MLE if far above is actual market price.
I always thought that the way to sign them both was to split the MLE between them...but probably everything's been spoiled by the fact that the actual MLE is for a less amount of $ than last year.

I understand the Spurs choice to try to sign some already nba proven player, but this way we're gonna give up on the only way we always had to really improve : I mean signing foreign players with no nba experience but extremely valuable for their skills (a la Manu, Parker atc atc.).

Going on this way looks like the "draft and stash" strategy is never gonna work... didn't work for Scola, nor for Javtokas, nor for Sanikidze and now for Lorbeck... and all of them were prospects with nba skills more than a lot of supposedly "nba proven" players... The only positive example could be Splitter, but it's becoming clearer and clearer that, despite the numbers, Pop has some problems in developing his talents...

Scola worked fine for the Rockets for many seasons. Javtokas had an ugly injury, he got offered a contract if I recall right but he preferred to stay in Europe, Lorbek didn't want to take a pay cut. It's complicated.

[Knoxxx]

I changed the title. Unless Bruno wants me to change it back or someone can find a conflicting report, we'll keep the thread title as is. I know European sports reporting is more like tabloid journalism but having two different sources makes it sound pretty damn legit.

That said, I won't say it's 100% until we see an actual quote from Lorbek or the team.

Fair enough and I was just ribbing anyway. I don't see where either article says this is a done deal though.

[ElNono]

This is great news. The Spurs didn't need another un-athletic, non-rebounding, non-shotblocking power forward who doesn't like to draw contact and hasn't even proven he can play in the nba.

I'm in this camp, tbh... although I'd like to lose Bonner and possibly Blair too if possible.

[therealtruth]

It did, yeah. Pop panicked by putting Manu in as a starter when he clearly did better marshaling the second unit.

Miami always has at least one of its Big 3 on the court at any time. Same with OKC. Manu as a starter means he rests when Tony and Tim do, so you end up with a WORSE second unit than the oft-touted one seen through the late part of the season.

Pop's substitution patterns killed us against OKC. Especially in those second quarters when he was resting guys. Then later he tried overplaying guys.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Pop's substitution patterns killed us against OKC. Especially in those second quarters when he was resting guys. Then later he tried overplaying guys.

If resting guys is wrong and overplaying them is wrong, you put Pop into a no win scenario. Everything he does is wrong.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Diario Sport has a more detailed report -

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/acb/efecto-domino-2050144

From the looks of it, a final contract has not yet been etched between Lorbek and Barca. It seems that Lorbek is predisposed to join the club (pending something that is not said) and they seem to have had "initial discussions about contract" and some kind of agreement about fees etc.

My gut feeling is that Lorbek is waiting to hear from the Spurs till July 11 and will then take a final call on what he needs to do. He must have told Barca that he is keen on coming back as things stand, but will have to take the final plunge after hearing the Spurs offer. And I think the Spurs must have told him to kindly hold till July 11th as they sort their other free agent options out.

From what we know - the Danny Green signing and other optimistic measures regarding Diaw and Mills - that seems the most likely scenario as of now.

[KaiRMD1]

Unless he's a physical, tough playing center, meh

[therealtruth]

If resting guys is wrong and overplaying them is wrong, you put Pop into a no win scenario. Everything he does is wrong.

There's a balance between the two that results in success like they showed during that winning streak.

[therealtruth]

Diario Sport has a more detailed report -

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/acb/efecto-domino-2050144

From the looks of it, a final contract has not yet been etched between Lorbek and Barca. It seems that Lorbek is predisposed to join the club (pending something that is not said) and they seem to have had "initial discussions about contract" and some kind of agreement about fees etc.

My gut feeling is that Lorbek is waiting to hear from the Spurs till July 11 and will then take a final call on what he needs to do. He must have told Barca that he is keen on coming back as things stand, but will have to take the final plunge after hearing the Spurs offer. And I think the Spurs must have told him to kindly hold till July 11th as they sort their other free agent options out.

From what we know - the Danny Green signing and other optimistic measures regarding Diaw and Mills - that seems the most likely scenario as of now.

To me Diaw is a priority. We can't go back to Bonner/Blair starting since Pop has shown no inclination to start Splitter. I am not sure if Mills can help us yet but we really need a pass first point guard like Ford was for us last year. Lorbek ideally would be nice as a better Bonner.

[The Btown Spur]

This was probably his last opportunity to play in the NBA... His loss.

When we got his rights there was the rumor that he just didnt want to come to the NBA. People thought that being traded to a contender would improve his chances of coming over. I guess it didnt.

[Slomo]

This was probably his last opportunity to play in the NBA... His loss.

When we got his rights there was the rumor that he just didnt want to come to the NBA. People thought that being traded to a contender would improve his chances of coming over. I guess it didnt.

You have a serious reading understanding problem. If the reports in this thread are true, he was offered the biggest contract in Barca's history, while at the same time he hasn't received an official offer from the Spurs. What is he supposed to do? Board a plane to the US anyway?

Personally I think there's a 50/50 chance that he could play well in the NBA (can't decide if that's good or bad). I'll go back to his previous statement that he will make a decision after July 11th (I'm guessing he'll have all the offers on the table then), so I'll wait until then.

I've always liked his game, so I hope he takes up the challenge of the NBA, but if he doesn't get an offer in the same ballpark as Barca's, then it's a no brainer and he should stay in Europe.

[CGD]

Are there any more details on the figures of the Barca contract?

[smaka]

I have to admit I wouldn't be too sad if he doesn't join the Spurs. I have a feeling he would be too soft for NBA. Yes, he has great techniques, but I can't imagine him guarding more physical and quicker PFs in the NBA.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

There's a balance between the two that results in success like they showed during that winning streak.

That "balance" was predicated on Bonner and Green hitting shots. Not a coaching issue, it's a players falling off the cliff issue.

[xmas1997]

I thought it was widely reported right after their playoff ouster that the Spurs were excited about him and planned to sign this guy this year. What gives????????????????

[Knoxxx]

I hope we can get him for the LLE/BAE whatever we are calling it. If not, we are essentially coming back with the same team. While that may be fine, hard to get too excited about it.

Swapping out Bonner for Lorbek, now THAT would be exciting. And I can't see Lorbek being any worse of a defensive big than Bonner or Blair for that matter.

[timvp]

So the most the Spurs can offer Lorbek now is $4 million over two years. If he hasn't accepted Barcelona's offer yet, he's about to. It'd take a miracle for him to accept the BAE.

[racm]

How much is Barcelona giving him again?

[xmas1997]

So the most the Spurs can offer Lorbek now is $4 million over two years. If he hasn't accepted Barcelona's offer yet, he's about to. It'd take a miracle for him to accept the BAE.

Spurs FO has pulled off miracles before, they need to concentrate on convincing him his greatest opportunity is in the NBA!

[mountainballer]

Spurs FO has pulled off miracles before, they need to concentrate on convincing him his greatest opportunity is in the NBA!

why?

[xmas1997]

why?

Haven't you been reading any of these threads about Lorbeks talents? :reading:wakeup
Pop, get your ass over there and convince him!

[mountainballer]

Haven't you been reading any of these threads about Lorbeks talents? :reading:wakeup
Pop, get your ass over there and convince him!

not the point.
why is the NBA the greatest opportunity for him?

[xmas1997]

Do you not subscribe to the belief that the NBA is the greatest basketball forum in the world? If not, then I understand your question, and thus cannot give you a valid reason why.

[Seventyniner]

not the point.
why is the NBA the greatest opportunity for him?

Because xmas1997 hates Bonner that much.

[Spursfanfromafar]

So the most the Spurs can offer Lorbek now is $4 million over two years. If he hasn't accepted Barcelona's offer yet, he's about to. It'd take a miracle for him to accept the BAE.

I have read about the tax issues in Catalunya where there is a 56% tax rate on all people whose incomes are above €600,000 a year. This is forcing Barcelona football (soccer) players like Seydou Keita to quit and join Chinese teams because they pay much more.

I am not sure that Barca's best offer will pay Lorbek far more than $4 million over two years that the Spurs are offering as the BAE, after tax cuts are taken into account.

So, the last word, I think will still need to be said. Considering Blair has been quoted as saying that the Spurs are bringing a big over from Spain, the likelihood of Lorbek coming is quite high. Perhaps 50/50 as Slomo says.

[xmas1997]

Because xmas1997 hates Bonner that much.

Hate is a pretty strong word. lol
Lets just say I am not one of his advocates. lol

[Slomo]

So the most the Spurs can offer Lorbek now is $4 million over two years. If he hasn't accepted Barcelona's offer yet, he's about to. It'd take a miracle for him to accept the BAE.

$4M over two years = $2M per year?

Yep, he's not coming.

[xmas1997]

$4M over two years = $2M per year?

Yep, he's not coming.

Are you sure?
What has Barca offered, after taxes, that makes it a done deal?

[Slomo]

Are you sure?
What has Barca offered, after taxes, that makes it a done deal?

Well IF the info in this thread are true then he was offered €3M per year before taxes. Worst case that means roughly €1.5M net (I'm convinced a good accountant can get more out of it).

€1.5M net = $1.8M net > $2M gross in TX

[xmas1997]

Well IF the info in this thread are true then he was offered €3M per year before taxes. Worst case that means roughly €1.5M net (I'm convinced a good accountant can get more out of it).

€1.5M net = $1.8M net > $2M gross in TX

Damn! Anyone verify this?

[Slomo]

Damn! Anyone verify this?

No unfortunately not (that's the reason for the capital IF). :D

Although frankly, looking at all the other development, it is more and more probable.

[xmas1997]

Then this calls for the personal touch that only a European trip by Pop can do.
He did it for Rasho. Would he do it for Lorbek?

[Bruno]

Something else about NBA contract is that 10% of the salary is put in an escrow fund and players aren't sure of getting them back. With the new CBA, it's likely they won't get it back.

[Slomo]

Something else about NBA contract is that 10% of the salary is put in an escrow fund and players aren't sure of getting them back. With the new CBA, it's likely they won't get it back.

First thanks again Bruno. I understand NBA contacts and the business side of the NBA much better since I started reading your posts a few years ago.

What's the escrow fund for? And what changed in regards to it in the new CBA?

[Slomo]

Then this calls for the personal touch that only a European trip by Pop can do.
He did it for Rasho. Would he do it for Lorbek?


Well Pop visited bringing a pretty nice deal with him. If Erazem was younger and could play three years in the NBA and prove himself for a nice big contract afterwards, I would be rooting hard for him to do so regardless of the money.

But at 28 he wants/needs to be paid.

[Bruno]

What's the escrow fund for? And what changed in regards to it in the new CBA?

Players get a designed percentage BRI each year, They can't get less or more. There are mechanisms to match the total salaries given to player with the % of the BRI they should get.

10% of players salaries are put in an escrow found and given back to players or owners depending if players have reached the designated % of the BRI they should get.

With the % of the BRI for players going down from 57% to 50%, the escrow found money will likely mostly goes back to owners.

[Knoxxx]

I seriously doubt the Spurs threw any BAE money at De Colo. Let's keep our fingers crossed that Lorbek accepts that, and we add a veteran's minimum rim protecting big. That could be a vet or a young player.

Barring a trade involving some combo of Bonner/Splitter/Blair/Neal, that is about the best we can hope for now.

Still waiting for the Bonner amnesty news, which would be cause for celebration...

[Slomo]

Players get a designed percentage BRI each year, They can't get less or more. There are mechanisms to match the total salaries given to player with the % of the BRI they should get.

10% of players salaries are put in an escrow found and given back to players or owners depending if players have reached the designated % of the BRI they should get.

With the % of the BRI for players going down from 57% to 50%, the escrow found money will likely mostly goes back to owners.

Thanks!

[timvp]

Well, now that we know the Spurs gave De Colo the BAE, it's impossible to sign Lorbek. He'd have to take the minimum :lol

Did the Spurs ever even offer Lorbek a contract this summer? Did he turn it down and the Spurs moved on? Or did Lorbek use the threat of the Spurs to land a big contract with Barcelona? I guess we'll never know.

Hopefully Lorbek has NBA-outs in his contract. I wouldn't close the door on him forever. He's a late bloomer and doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body so he could conceivably play at a high level for a while longer.

[xmas1997]

And since we were told TD would be the last contract signed, all that is left is trades.

[Darkwaters]

Well, now that we know the Spurs gave De Colo the BAE, it's impossible to sign Lorbek. He'd have to take the minimum :lol

Did the Spurs ever even offer Lorbek a contract this summer? Did he turn it down and the Spurs moved on? Or did Lorbek use the threat of the Spurs to land a big contract with Barcelona? I guess we'll never know.

Hopefully Lorbek has NBA-outs in his contract. I wouldn't close the door on him forever. He's a late bloomer and doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body so he could conceivably play at a high level for a while longer.

Lorbek was still a very nice toss-in on the George Hill trade. He might never come over, but he offered us a legitimately intriguing possibility this summer that might have blossomed into something incredibly productive. And you're right to say that the door isn't totally closed on him wearing the silver and black at some point. Who knows? Long after we thought the door was shut on Robertas Javtokas his name was back in off-season free agent discussions with rumors sending him here. You just never know.

[ploto]

Did the Spurs ever even offer Lorbek a contract this summer?

I don't think they ever made a formal offer.

[lcroock]

If the Spurs amnesty Bonner or Neal and then trade Blair for cash/draft pick then maybe we can still sign Lorbek? What's left of the MLE? Per Hollinger we used $3M on Diaw for 2012.

https://twitter.com/johnhollinger

[Mel_13]

If the Spurs amnesty Bonner or Neal and then trade Blair for cash/draft pick then maybe we can still sign Lorbek? What's left of the MLE? Per Hollinger we used $3M on Diaw for 2012.

https://twitter.com/johnhollinger

Using the amnesty on Bonner doesn't create a new exception to use on new players.

Also, Hollinger didn't say that the Spurs will pay Diaw 3M in 2012. He said that the decision to pay Diaw more than 3.09M means that the Spurs are operating under a hard cap of 74.3M for this season.

[lcroock]

Using the amnesty on Bonner doesn't create a new exception to use on new players.

Also, Hollinger didn't say that the Spurs will pay Diaw 3M in 2012. He said that the decision to pay Diaw more than 3.09M means that the Spurs are operating under a hard cap of 74.3M for this season.


Luxury tax considerations....that's the whole point here. Not sure what $ figure puts the Spurs in a taxable position.

[Mel_13]

luxury tax considerations....that's the whole point here. Not sure what $ figure puts the spurs in a taxable position.

70.3m

[velik_m]

Lorbek signed 3 year contract with Barca: http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/kosarka/uradno-lorbek-se-tri-leta-v-barceloni/287337

Edit: 3M euros per season

[smaka]

And he has the highest salary in Spain. Wow.

[venitian navigator]

Any news on the contract....like an nba escape clause ?

[CGD]

Lorbek signed 3 year contract with Barca: http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/kosarka/uradno-lorbek-se-tri-leta-v-barceloni/287337

Edit: 3M euros per season

That's what, $3.7M USD? Not sure what the tax on highest earners is in Spain right now, but I think in the long run he would have made more money coming to the US signing a smaller deal (for less years). I know preference, lifestyle, etc. matter, but it always stuck me as being about the $$ with this guy. Anyway, best of luck to him.

[Slomo]

...but I think in the long run he would have made more money coming to the US signing a smaller deal (for less years).

How? I would seriously like to know how you make more money by signing for a smaller deal AND for less time?

[timvp]

Yeah, I'm really interested in his NBA escape clause. Unfortunately, when players land contracts that large in Europe, they usually come with an expensive escape clause.

[Slomo]

Yeah, I'm really interested in his NBA escape clause. Unfortunately, when players land contracts that large in Europe, they usually come with an expensive escape clause.

Agreed. It would be a first.

[cantthinkofanything]

How? I would seriously like to know how you make more money by signing for a smaller deal AND for less time?

I think he's probably referring to the significantly higher taxes in Spain.

[Slomo]

I think he's probably referring to the significantly higher taxes in Spain.

Read the thread. Doesn't make sense.

[ploto]

I think all the Spurs had left to offer Lorbek is $1 million.

I also think the teams in Spain can still offer housing and a car.

[Mel_13]

Lorbek wanted the money. The Spurs wanted Diaw.

Time to move on.

[DesignatedT]

If Diaw was Lorbeks idea of a "tough physical center" than maybe it's good we didn't get him.

[Duncan2177]

If Diaw was Lorbeks idea of a "tough physical center" than maybe it's good we didn't get him.

:lol

[Drom John]

Lorbeck might have made more long term money had he signed with the Spurs, fought for a player option in year three, and made up the difference with a good free agency contract.

IOW, just like a Boras baseball draft clients have left bonus money on the table for a major league contract. Being on the the 40-man roster starts the clock earlier. The shorter contract is more valuable to the player under the CBA. It's a risk, but for an older European, that was a rational shot for bigger money. Instead, Lorbek has a safer contract with more guaranteed money.

[slick'81]

yeah dnt think well c him in sa anytime soon

[phxspurfan]

AoWW_E5BRBU

Damn...he looks like Bonner with a little less bulk but a little more post up skills. He even wears the same number lol. Too bad we couldn't find a way to make a deal there.

[smaka]

^ he wears 25 in Barcelona (same as And:lolrs:loln)

[temujin]

Lorbek wanted the money. The Spurs wanted Diaw.

Time to move on.

Lorbek wanted the money BUT stay in Barcelona.
Can't really blame him.
Time To Move On.

[tesseractive]

That's what, $3.7M USD? Not sure what the tax on highest earners is in Spain right now, but I think in the long run he would have made more money coming to the US signing a smaller deal (for less years). I know preference, lifestyle, etc. matter, but it always stuck me as being about the $$ with this guy. Anyway, best of luck to him.
Aren't European deals usually announced in after-tax amounts? $3.7M after tax would be a better deal than the full midlevel.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

yeah dnt think well c him in sa anytime soon

Pretty much ever, at this point.