Top trios in Nba history [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

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ViceCity86

07-10-2012, 03:27 PM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8144795&_slug_=ranking-nba-top-current-big-3-combinations&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %

Does anyone have insider?

Koolaid_Man

07-10-2012, 03:37 PM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8144795&_slug_=ranking-nba-top-current-big-3-combinations&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %

Does anyone have insider?

top trio:

Duncan
Tongue Ring
Tramp Stamp

lefty

07-10-2012, 03:39 PM

lol at people paying for ESPN Insider

Venti Quattro

07-10-2012, 03:40 PM

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1194441

ViceCity86

07-10-2012, 03:50 PM

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1194441

Oh it's today's trio.Reading comprehension lacking.

ViceCity86

07-10-2012, 03:58 PM

Kidd K

07-10-2012, 04:06 PM

5. Chicago Bulls
Derrick Rose: 23.1 | Carlos Boozer: 19.8 | Joakim Noah: 19.6
Combined PER: 62.5 (20.8 average)

4. Los Angeles Lakers
Andrew Bynum: 23.0 | Kobe Bryant: 22.0 | Pau Gasol: 20.5 | Steve Nash: 20.3
Combined PER: 65.5 (21.8 average)

3. San Antonio Spurs
Manu Ginobili: 24.2 | Tim Duncan: 22.6 | Tony Parker: 22.0
Combined PER: 68.8 (22.9 average)

2. Oklahoma City Thunder
Kevin Durant: 26.2 | Russell Westbrook: 23.0 | James Harden: 21.1
Combined PER: 70.3 (23.4 avg.)

1. Miami Heat
LeBron James: 30.8 | Dwyane Wade: 26.4 | Chris Bosh: 18.9
Combined PER: 76.1 (25.4 avg.)

The top 5 trios were the 5 best teams in Nba.The Celtics got lucky in the playoffs.Those were the 5 best teams in order,but I'll switch Bulls and Lakers.

He was asking about the top trios in NBA history, not top trios now.

Imo, and in order:

1: Jordan/Pippen/3rd best player (Grant, then Rodman the 2nd run)

2: Magic/Kareem/Worthy

3: Duncan/Ginobili/Parker

4: Kobe/Shaq/whoever (Horry?)

5: Bird/McHale/Parish

LBJ/Wade/Bosh hasn't been together long enough or won enough to be listed with them. Every other trio up there has won at least 3 titles together.

I'm sure there's one with Bill Russell there, but I don't know enough about his teams to be able to say which trio was the best for them during their long run.

Venti Quattro

07-10-2012, 04:11 PM

Bird/Bias...just kidding. :lol

DMC

07-10-2012, 04:27 PM

If you cannot name them all, they weren't a trio.

whitemamba

07-10-2012, 05:41 PM

If you cannot name them all, they weren't a trio.

:lol

Latarian Milton

07-10-2012, 07:36 PM

the dallas triple J deserves sort of nomination here imho, the ephemeral trio didn't win much glory but they did spark some lights back in that time, had they kept the trio they'd have probably won championships years ago but yeah, dallas FO has a peculiar tradition of breaking up their champion core for fun

Bynumite

07-10-2012, 07:56 PM

Triple D Dynasty bitches :lmao

Kidd K

07-10-2012, 10:42 PM

If you cannot name them all, they weren't a trio.

I could and did. The only reason I said "whoever" is because Glen Rice would've been the third guy in their trio, as opposed to Horry who was the third best guy for the last two titles in their three peat. So I couldn't just say Horry since he would've been the 4th wheel the first year to Rice.

LnGrrrR

07-10-2012, 11:16 PM

I think I'd pretty safely rate Bird/McHale/Parish over Duncan/Manu/Parker.

racm

07-10-2012, 11:28 PM

^ Best frontcourt ever IMO

Kidd K

07-10-2012, 11:31 PM

I think I'd pretty safely rate Bird/McHale/Parish over Duncan/Manu/Parker.

Lower team win % for Celtics, yet same # of titles.

I wouldn't rate them higher.

Latarian Milton

07-11-2012, 12:11 AM

duncan/manu/parker trio was one of the greatest in NBA history which won that city 3 MF'N rings all together, and yup that trio is pretty much in history already. at present time no trio comes nearly as good as what we have tbh.

ambchang

07-11-2012, 01:14 PM

Bynum and his titties

LnGrrrR

07-11-2012, 01:46 PM

Lower team win % for Celtics, yet same # of titles.

I wouldn't rate them higher.

Let's break it down by players, in order of their importance:

Bird > Duncan

I think this is a pretty safe assumption. As good as Duncan is, Bird is considered top 5 in most lists, Duncan top 10. Duncan, like other Spurs below, does beat Bird out in PER and WS per 48.

McHale > Manu

As good as Manu is, let's look at the numbers.

McHale: 17.9 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 1.7 APG, .4 SPG, 1.9 TurnoversPG
Manu: 15.2 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.1 TurnoversPG

Numbers don't tell everything, but in this case I think they're pretty fair. Looking at advanced metrics McHale wins out in most categories except:

WS per 48: Manu .216, McHale .180
PER: Manu 21.8, McHale 20.0

It's not enough to sway my opinion though.

Parish = Parker

Parish: 14.5 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 1.4 APG, .8 SPG, 2.1 TPG
Parker: 16.8 PPG, 3.0 RPB, 5.9 APG, 1 SPG, 2.5 TPG

Again, using advanced metrics:

WS per 48: Parish .154, Parker .146
PER: Parish 19.2, 18.8

I think Parish is better than Parker, but statistically, it's certainly not a landslide.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-11-2012, 01:54 PM

Bird/Bias...just kidding. :lol

Too soon......

Viva Las Espuelas

07-11-2012, 02:02 PM

Homer BS

That's all you need to know

Lower team win % for Celtics, yet same # of titles.

I wouldn't rate them higher.

Advanced metrics
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/3411398_o.gif

LnGrrrR

07-11-2012, 09:43 PM

That's all you need to know

Advanced metrics
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/3411398_o.gif

Way to valiantly not take either side. It's this kind of quality take that really makes Spurstalk the envy of all other forums.

namlook

07-11-2012, 10:57 PM

Magic/Kareem/Worthy wins out over all.

ViceCity86

07-13-2012, 09:49 PM

10. 1968-69 Los Angeles Lakers
Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
In July 1968, Chamberlain was traded from Philadelphia to L.A., forming what was perhaps the NBA's very first modern-style Big 3 with West and Baylor. The result was a 55-win Lakers team that boasted three inner-circle Hall of Famers with PERs north of 20 -- although, oddly enough, the Wilt-infused '68-69 Lakers actually represented an offensive decline from the 1967-68 version, a team whose No. 3 player was Archie Clark.

Even so, L.A.'s 1968-69 team would meet expectations, eventually coming within a Game 7 Finals loss of being only the second team to topple the Celtics in a playoff series since 1958.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8162699&_slug_=nba-ranking-top-10-big-3s-all-time&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fstory%3

Does anyone have insider or link?

DMC

07-13-2012, 10:46 PM

I could and did. The only reason I said "whoever" is because Glen Rice would've been the third guy in their trio, as opposed to Horry who was the third best guy for the last two titles in their three peat. So I couldn't just say Horry since he would've been the 4th wheel the first year to Rice.
Just putting another person in there isn't the same as a "trio" in basketball.

Shaq/Kobe was a duo, they are remembered as such. Jordan/Pippen were a duo and are remembered as such. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are a trio and will be remembered as such, as will Durant, Westbrook and Harden or James, Wade and Bosh, or KG, Allen, Pierce.

No one says "James, Wade and Bosh or Chalmers", or "KG, Allen and Pierce or Rondo".

DMC

07-13-2012, 10:51 PM

I think I'd pretty safely rate Bird/McHale/Parish over Duncan/Manu/Parker.
Except the Celitics had a shit load of rings prior to those years, but if you take them as stand alone teams in those years, you might be right. However, the significance of the SA trio to the city of SA, to small markets, to what a team can do with seemingly less than teams with far worse records, that trio is hard to beat. You have to also not just consider the championship years. That trio has been winning a long, long time.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-14-2012, 12:07 AM

Way to valiantly not take either side. It's this kind of quality take that really makes Spurstalk the envy of all other forums.

advanced metrics :lol

Venti Quattro

07-14-2012, 01:18 AM

Top 10 'Big 3s' of all time (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8162699)

With so many superstars teaming up over the past five seasons, you might be tempted to think the NBA's current "Big 3" era (touched off by the Celtics' acquisitions of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett in the summer of 2007) represents a brand-new trend for the league.

However, while Boston's trio and Miami's subsequent LeBron James-Dwyane Wade-Chris Bosh triad are historically great, many of the biggest 3s date back to long before the Pierce-Garnett-Allen combo was even a twinkle in Danny Ainge's eye.

Using a combination of Basketball-Reference's Win Shares and John Hollinger's Estimated Wins Added, prorated to 82 scheduled games in years like 2012, we can attempt to measure the greatest single-season Big 3s since 1965 (the first year we have statistics split out by each team a player played for).

The obvious approach would seem to be simple addition, summing the metrics for a team's three highest-ranked players, but that runs the risk of overrating a trio on the basis of its top player. It actually makes more sense to use an average called the harmonic mean to give less relative weight to a team's best player and more to its third-best player.

After doing that, you get the following list of the best three-man combinations in a season:

10. 1968-69 Los Angeles Lakers
Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
In July 1968, Chamberlain was traded from Philadelphia to L.A., forming what was perhaps the NBA's very first modern-style Big 3 with West and Baylor. The result was a 55-win Lakers team that boasted three inner-circle Hall of Famers with PERs north of 20 -- although, oddly enough, the Wilt-infused '68-69 Lakers actually represented an offensive decline from the 1967-68 version, a team whose No. 3 player was Archie Clark.

Even so, L.A.'s 1968-69 team would meet expectations, eventually coming within a Game 7 Finals loss of being only the second team to topple the Celtics in a playoff series since 1958.

9. 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Bobby Dandridge
After an impressive rookie season in which he finished third in MVP voting, Abdul-Jabbar tore up the league as its clear-cut best player in 1970-71. Meanwhile, the Bucks had also pried Robertson away from Cincinnati before the '70-71 season, and the duo of NBA legends was supported by underrated wing Dandridge, one of the best complementary players in league history.

They put together the best regular-season schedule-adjusted points-per-game margin ever, then went 12-2 in the playoffs, so it's not hard to make a case that the '70-71 Bucks' top three players were the driving forces behind the greatest team in NBA history.

8. 1986-87 Boston Celtics
Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish
While the Celtics as a team enjoyed their most successful season in 1985-86, the following year, their fabled Big 3 reached new individual heights. Bird and Parish were still in the middle of their Hall of Fame primes, and '86-87 was actually the best statistical campaign of McHale's career by far. The only thing that ultimately derailed Boston was a Lakers team that came into the Finals with an 11-1 record and received a clutch "junior sky hook" in Game 4.

7. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Toni Kukoc
When we think of the 1990s Bulls, a breathtaking duo comes to mind: Jordan and Pippen. However, Chicago's record-shattering 1995-96 roster also received the very best season in the career of Kukoc, who won Sixth Man of the Year honors after posting a 20.4 PER with 10.1 Win Shares. Together, the Bulls' superstars carried the team to a staggering 72 regular-season victories and the club's fourth NBA championship, in the process building a case for NBA's best-ever team that only the 1970-71 Bucks and 1985-86 Celtics can realistically challenge.

6. 1996-97 Utah Jazz
Karl Malone, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek
With the formula emphasizing production from each trio's third member, you might be surprised to see the Jazz here. Everyone knows the prodigious output Utah got from Malone and Stockton every season, but Hornacek also provided serious punch in 1996-97, posting double digits in Win Shares and Estimated Wins Added to help augment what was probably the best season of Malone's long and distinguished career.

5. 2011-12 Oklahoma City Thunder
Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden
One of two current Big 3s in this top-10 list, the Thunder's trio joined the ranks of the NBA's best ever largely on the basis of Harden's ascendancy. Despite coming off the bench, Harden put up the 82-game equivalent of 11.6 Win Shares and 12.8 Estimated Wins Added in 2011-12, combining with the already-outstanding production of Durant and Westbrook to form a three-headed monster no team outside of South Beach had an answer for. And the scariest part? They're probably going to be even better in 2012-13.

4. 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers
Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Gail Goodrich
Although their Chamberlain-West-Baylor triad could never wrest an NBA crown away from Boston, the 1971-72 edition of the Lakers made the transition from Baylor's abrupt retirement by putting together the greatest winning streak in league history, as well as one of its most dominant teams.

As an aside, Gail Goodrich's name probably seems out of place next to two Hall of Fame legends, but he notched 12.3 Win Shares and 14.4 Estimated Wins Added in 1971-72, and had one of the most insanely effective fluke seasons in NBA history. Neither before nor since were Goodrich's numbers even in the same area code as his monster '71-72 output, but he was an instrumental part of their championship run.

3. 2004-05 Phoenix Suns
Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion
It's fitting that the second-most prolific regular-season and playoff offense ever would have representatives on the list of all-time great Big 3s. In 2004-05, Nash won MVP honors, Stoudemire made a strong bid for the award as well, and many observers felt Marion was actually Phoenix's best all-around player. Together, they propelled the Suns to their first Western Conference finals since 1993, touching off one of the greatest stretches of sustained offensive output by a single team in the history of the NBA.

2. 2010-11 Miami Heat
LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh
No way do we make it through this Big 3 countdown without mentioning what is by far the highest-profile trio of stars ever assembled. The 2011-12 Heat won the NBA championship, but in many ways the previous season's version was even more dominant in the regular season, winning at a better clip and finishing first in the league in opponent-adjusted margin of victory.

While the 2011-12 Heat boasted James at arguably his highest level of play ever, the 2010-11 team received a greater all-around contribution from its star trio, because Wade and Bosh had much better seasons than in 2011-12.

1. 1991-92 Chicago Bulls
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
The most effective Big 3 ever (according to Win Shares and Estimated Wins Added, at least) belongs to the 1991-92 Bulls, who featured Jordan and Pippen at their absolute peaks and benefited from Grant posting one of the most spectacularly underrated high-efficiency seasons ever. Grant never again put up numbers similar to what he did in '91-92, but for one season, he gave Jordan and Pippen everything they could ask for in a third banana. As a result, Chicago's trio ranks atop the list of best NBA Big 3s since 1965.

Venti Quattro

07-14-2012, 01:19 AM

IMO, the list missed out on these teams or picked wrongly for these teams:

1984-1985 LA Lakers
1985-1986 Boston Celtics
at least one Spurs championship team

Roger Freemason Jr.

07-14-2012, 04:29 PM

If there is anyone that doesn't consider Duncan/Ginobili/Parker as one of the Top 10 Trios Of All Time, then that person is a just a fool.

Blake

07-14-2012, 06:11 PM

Let's break it down by players, in order of their importance:

Bird > Duncan

I think this is a pretty safe assumption.

lol wut

LnGrrrR

07-14-2012, 08:19 PM

lol wut

Strong data to backup that viewpoint.

Clipper Nation

07-14-2012, 09:03 PM

IMO, the list missed out on these teams or picked wrongly for these teams:

1984-1985 LA Lakers
1985-1986 Boston Celtics
at least one Spurs championship team

One of my favorite Big Threes, Ray Allen/Glenn Robinson/Sam Cassell, also got ignored tbh....

Blake

07-14-2012, 09:10 PM

Strong data to backup that viewpoint.

that'd be great to see.

Rip-Hamilton32

07-14-2012, 09:15 PM

Thomas Dumars Rodman

LnGrrrR

07-14-2012, 10:35 PM

that'd be great to see.

Duncan has the nod in W/S per 48 and PER. Bird has the nod in scoring by a good margin, assists and a few other categories (excepting rebounds and blocks).

Blake

07-14-2012, 10:43 PM

Duncan has the nod in W/S per 48 and PER. Bird has the nod in scoring by a good margin, assists and a few other categories (excepting rebounds and blocks).

I've gone down the list of stats and accomplishments myself. I don't think Bird > Duncan is a safe assumption at all.

I think it's as close to being a wash as any two players can get, imo.

LnGrrrR

07-14-2012, 11:29 PM

I've gone down the list of stats and accomplishments myself. I don't think Bird > Duncan is a safe assumption at all.

I think it's as close to being a wash as any two players can get, imo.

It's not a landslide, definitely. I just think that the majority of people who watch the NBA would place Bird above Duncan. (Again, when you're defining down the Top 10 all-time, of course they are all amazing players. I just think that Bird is often put above Duncan in most lists, and Bird is seen as a better player.)

There's a reason I put Bird>Duncan, not Bird>>>>>Duncan. Then again, I'd put Bird>Kobe, and the stats probably would argue that Kobe>Bird.

racm

07-14-2012, 11:31 PM

Bird was the most skilled scorer of his time, tbh...

Didn't win scoring titles due to not being a volume scorer, though, but having a couple of 50/40/90 years is good.

Deuce Bigalow

07-14-2012, 11:41 PM

pass1st

07-14-2012, 11:42 PM

Bird > Duncan, not by a lot, but you can't put Duncan in top 5 discussion with MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem/Shaq. Bird was probably the best scorer up till 89. Even when his back was done and he was a crippled bastard, he could score like crazy. Born leader, extremely clutch and one of the fiercest competitors the game has seen.

Stats don't tell you greatness

racm

07-14-2012, 11:45 PM

How I would rank the top trios.
Playoff play is the main factor

1. Magic-Kareem-Worthy
2. Shaq-Kobe-Fisher
3. Bird-McHale-Parish
4. West-Chamberlain-Goodrich
5. Kobe-Gasol-Odom
6. Duncan-Manu-Parker
7. Russell-Cousy-Heinsohn
8. Russell-Havlicek-Jones
9. Jordan-Pippen-Grant
10. Isiah-Dumars-Rodman
11. Jordan-Pippen-Rodman

How many rings did West/Chamberlain/Goodrich win again?

Bird > Duncan, not by a lot, but you can't put Duncan in top 5 discussion with MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem/Shaq. Bird was probably the best scorer up till 89. Even when his back was done and he was a crippled bastard, he could score like crazy. Born leader, extremely clutch and one of the fiercest competitors the game has seen.

Stats don't tell you greatness

Imagine if Durant were white...

Deuce Bigalow

07-14-2012, 11:49 PM

How many rings did West/Chamberlain/Goodrich win again?
1. But the year that they did win, they won 69 games an NBA record 33 straight games.
They couldn't be a trio for long though because Wilt and West retired in '73 and '74, meaning all 3 players been together for only 3 years.

racm

07-14-2012, 11:51 PM

Yeah, and that was right after Baylor retired, right?

pass1st

07-14-2012, 11:53 PM

Imagine if Durant were white...

Imagine if Durant could pass, lead a team, consistently score even when injured and achieve all that with fairly average athleticism as well. If e could do all that, maybe he would be comparable to Bird.

Deuce Bigalow

07-14-2012, 11:54 PM

Yeah, and that was right after Baylor retired, right?

Yes. it's odd that after a great player retired that they did that. But Baylor was old.
The Lakers just did not have time in their favor during that era. They could have had West, Wilt, Baylor, and Goodrich all on their team, and if they were in their prime they probably would have won nearly every ring at the time until they got old.

racm

07-15-2012, 12:08 AM

And they had chances but got blocked by Russell in '69 and and Reed/Frazier in '70.

Deuce Bigalow

07-15-2012, 12:14 AM

And they had chances but got blocked by Russell in '69 and and Reed/Frazier in '70.

I blame Wilt. 4-13 FT shooting in game 7 69 Finals. And he shot below 37% from the FT in the 69, 70, 73 NBA Finals series.

Sean Cagney

07-15-2012, 02:12 AM

Spurtacus

07-15-2012, 03:49 AM

How many true trios have 3 championships or more? And of those trios which consisted of the players winning a championship with the team that drafted them?