House just voted to repeal Obamacare

[mavs>spurs]

Even some democrats getting in on the action. Surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/11/politics/house-health-care/index.html?hpt=hp_c1


Washington (CNN) -- House Republicans voted Wednesday to repeal President Barack Obama's signature health care reform law despite Democratic objections that the move was a waste of time.
The vote amounted to political theater because the measure is sure to die in the Democratic-led Senate and the White House has made clear Obama would veto any repeal.
Five Democrats joined the Republican majority in the 244-185 vote. Democratic leaders said a handful of their caucus members facing tough re-election battles in November might side with the Republicans on the volatile issue.
Wednesday's vote was the latest of more than 30 House GOP efforts to undermine the 2010 Affordable Care Act, including previous Republican moves to repeal the measure or cut funding for various provisions.
Prior to the final vote, the House rejected a Democratic motion that would have required any legislator supporting the repeal measure to give up government-provided health care.
In debate on the issue this week, Democrats noted the Supreme Court ruled on June 28 to uphold the health care law's constitutionality, which they said should end talk of repeal and instead inspire bipartisan efforts to address the nation's weak economic recovery.
"With millions still out of work and families struggling to make ends meet, Republicans are responding how? By voting to take away critical health care protections for people," Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the No. 2 House Democrat, told reporters.
Republicans, however, said the issue remains a priority for their constituents and defended the need to combat what they call a threat to patient-focused health care and the economy.
"It is not a game to be played," declared House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Virginia, before the voting started.
Earlier, Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, told CNN that health care reform "happens to be the seminal issue of our time."
"Those of us who want patient-centered health care have had two years to repeal it," Hensarling said. "I think it's kind of unreasonable to think we're going to go away."
Opinion polls indicate public confusion on the issue amid the sharp political divide. A CNN/ORC International poll conducted June 28-July 1 showed 52% of respondents favor all or most provisions of the health care law, while at the same time, 51% want Congress to repeal the entire measure.
On both issues, Democrats were strongly in favor of keeping the law intact while Republicans were equally supportive of repealing or dismantling it. Independents reflected the conflicting findings of the poll, with 56% favoring repeal while 51% support all or most of the law's provisions.
At committee hearings and on the House floor Tuesday, the debate on the repeal measure devolved into repetitive opposing claims about the health care law.
"This law is historic, but for all the wrong reasons," argued Rep. Sam Graves, R-Missouri. "It reaches too far into the personal decisions of Americans and it puts a heavy burden on our economy and small businesses. It's an example of big government at its absolute worst."
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, the Democratic National Committee chair, noted the multiple previous House votes to repeal all or part of the health reform law.
"It is time to stop the tantrums, grow up, and work together on Americans' number one priority -- creating jobs," she said.
Another Democrat, Rep. Lynn Woolsey of California, accused Republicans of "serving more baloney" regarding the health care law, while GOP members complained it was Obama and Democrats who misled the public on the the measure's cost and impact.
Some in Congress are urging state governments to opt out of the health care law's provisions setting up health insurance exchanges and expanding Medicaid coverage for the poor and disabled. So far, a handful of states have said they will hold off on both provisions.
The exchanges will provide consumers and businesses with options for obtaining health coverage, as required under the law's individual mandate. Both the exchanges and the Medicaid expansion are intended to reduce the number of uninsured Americans.
By opting out, state governments hope to avoid a possible increased financial burden as the health care law gets fully implemented beginning in 2014. Opponents of the law also want to obstruct progress on implementation as much as possible while they try to get it repealed or dismantled.
"It starts a process that we believe has to be repealed because we can't afford it," conservative Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, told CNN on Wednesday. He is leading the state opt-out effort.
"The bottom line is, our country is broke," DeMint said. "This is going to cost trillions of dollars. It's going to diminish the quality and access to health care."
However, analysts and industry experts contend health care reform will happen out of necessity, whether through the Affordable Care Act or the momentum it already has created since being passed over two years ago.
How are you affected by the health care ruling? Share your views in the iReport Debate
According to a report by PricewaterhouseCoopers' Health Research Institute, 14 states and the District of Columbia have made "significant progress" toward implementing reforms, while another 19 states have made "moderate progress," leaving 17 states -- or about a third -- that have yet to change their laws or take other steps toward implementation.
The report, titled "Implications of the U.S. Supreme Court Ruling on Healthcare," says all players in the health care industry -- state governments, hospitals, insurance companies, employers and drug companies -- need to participate in the emerging reform process or risk getting left behind.
DeMint appeared to concede that reality Wednesday, saying the goal is to "give the states more flexibility to help individuals own their own health insurance, policies that they can keep from job to job, and hopefully into retirement. And a lot of states have begun that process."
He also echoed an emerging GOP talking point that praises what Obama and Democrats sought to achieve through health care reform pushed through Congress with no Republican support.
"We appreciate some of the goals of the president," DeMint said. "We need every American to have access to affordable health insurance. The best way to do that is at ... the state level that respects the relationship between the patient and the doctor."
Democrats also point to a state solution that worked -- the health care reforms implemented by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts.
Throughout Tuesday's committee hearings and floor debate on health care reform, Democratic legislators repeatedly noted how Romney's Massachusetts plan served as a model for the federal plan Republicans seek to eliminate, including the individual mandate detested by conservatives.
Romney now pledges to repeal the federal law, a necessary position for any Republican in today's hyper-partisan GOP political environment. He argues his Massachusetts law was right for the state but never intended as a federal solution, but he also calls for keeping some popular provisions of what is known as Obamacare, such as preventing insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
What the Supreme Court ruled on health care 'tax'
The health care issue has been among the most divisive of Obama's presidency. Conservative anger over the measure helped launch the tea party movement, and conservative groups joined with industry groups to fund a giant public pressure campaign against the legislation.
Some provisions already have brought popular benefits, such as the one on pre-existing conditions. The bulk of the health care law will take effect in 2014.
In its ruling, the Supreme Court said the individual mandate -- the requirement that all people have insurance -- is constitutional under the government's taxing authority, and Republicans have jumped on that to characterize the provision as a tax increase on middle-class Americans.
What the health care ruling means to you
Obama and Democrats respond that only people who can afford health insurance but choose not to get it would have to pay, amounting to about 1% of the population.
The continued GOP attacks seek to bolster public opposition to the law and force Democrats to publicly defend it. Republicans have made clear that the goal is to inspire voters to rally against the law and Obama in the November presidential election.
"If you give us more elected representatives to fix this problem, we will fix this problem in 2013," House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wisconsin, said Tuesday in an interview with CNBC.
The White House formally notified House leaders on Monday that Obama will veto any repeal bill that manages to reach his desk, saying repeal "would cost millions of hard-working middle-class families the security of affordable health coverage and care they deserve."
"The last thing the Congress should do is refight old political battles and take a massive step backward by repealing basic protections that provide security for the middle class," a White House statement said.
But Republicans called for eliminating the law and starting over on the complex issue that affects every American.
"That's why we've voted over 30 times to repeal it, defund it, replace it. And we are resolved to have this law go away and we're gonna do everything we can to stop it," House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, told reporters Tuesday.
How the Justices voted, what they wrote

[boutons_deux]

After Voting To Repeal Obamacare, Republicans Turn Their Attention To Golf

Immediately after the Republicans spent their 89th hour trying to take away health coverage from middle class Americans by voting to repeal Obamacare, the GOP turned their attention to a topic perhaps less consequential to their constituents: Golf. Democrats have argued that Republicans are wasting their time by revisiting the Obamacare debate instead of focusing on jobs and the economy. Today, the GOP went a step further in proving them right by having a long discussion about their two Congressional golf teams.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/11/515123/after-voting-to-repeal-obamacare-republicans-turn-their-attention-to-golf/

This about the 20+ time the Repugs have voted to repeal ACA.

Works every time (as a time waster)

[CosmicCowboy]

And in other news, Harry Reid refused to put Obama's repeal of the bush tax cuts for people making over $250,000 to a vote in the Senate.

[Trill Clinton]

smh...I'm sitting this election out. both sides don't give a fuck about the American people.

[mavs>spurs]

this move is actually good for the people though, if you know anything about economics. in socialist canada, you have to wait 18 months to get a test for carpel tunnel. Obamacare isn't going to do anything except hurt the economy and raise healthcare costs.

[Trill Clinton]

yea I heard about the wait in Canada. Its still the same story with these crooked politicians. this is just republicans blocking something that the obama administration proposed. this shit is getting tired already, lets get some actual work done, focus on the unemployment rate, gun laws. too much talk and not enough action.

[MannyIsGod]

smh...I'm sitting this election out. both sides don't give a fuck about the American people.

I think this is the route I'm going. I can't bring myself to vote for Obama again. I'll go vote on local bond issues, however.

[Wild Cobra]

this move is actually good for the people though, if you know anything about economics. in socialist canada, you have to wait 18 months to get a test for carpel tunnel. Obamacare isn't going to do anything except hurt the economy and raise healthcare costs.
Agreed.

Also good strategy on the part of the GOP. Democrat senators up for reelection will have to explain why they are voting no, yote yes to repeal, or have a greater chance of being out on their butts.

[mavs>spurs]

the unemployment rate was only going to rise because of this, so in a way this does help that. also, i heard that 83% of doctors considered quitting over obamacare. that's crazy.

but yeah i'm concerned over the unemployment rate too. which is why i'm pissed at obama for thinking that all this "QE" shit was going to work. for every 170,000 spent on obama's job programs, it created only 1 job. all his massive spending has done is push us closer to the brink of a currency collapse. historically, i think debt can only be at what percentage of GDP before the bottom falls out? i'm not sure but i think we are approaching it last time i looked.

[mavs>spurs]

the unemployment rate was only going to rise because of this, so in a way this does help that. also, i heard that 83% of doctors considered quitting over obamacare. that's crazy.

but yeah i'm concerned over the unemployment rate too. which is why i'm pissed at obama for thinking that all this "QE" shit was going to work. for every 170,000 spent on obama's job programs, it created only 1 job. all his massive spending has done is push us closer to the brink of a currency collapse. historically, i think debt can only be at what percentage of GDP before the bottom falls out? i'm not sure but i think we are approaching it last time i looked.

[mavs>spurs]

yea I heard about the wait in Canada. Its still the same story with these crooked politicians. this is just republicans blocking something that the obama administration proposed. this shit is getting tired already, lets get some actual work done, focus on the unemployment rate, gun laws. too much talk and not enough action.


I think this is the route I'm going. I can't bring myself to vote for Obama again. I'll go vote on local bond issues, however.

me 3. i won't vote for any of these shady bastards. look up the history on both of these guys, it reeks of shady. they're both globalist puppets. no matter who wins, the elite get what they want because it was rigged.

[boutons_deux]

And in other news, Harry Reid refused to put Obama's repeal of the bush tax cuts for people making over $250,000 to a vote in the Senate.

He said he would do it later, after the small business write down deal is done (or killed by the Repugs)

[baseline bum]

Paul Ryan is the only thing motivating me to cast a vote for Uncle Tom this election. His garbage plan is getting signed into law ASAP if Romney gets elected. It always does make me feel like a sucker when I cast a vote in an election though, since the Democrats have moved so far right.

[boutons_deux]

smh...I'm sitting this election out. both sides don't give a fuck about the American people.

iow, Human-Americans votes don't count. Totally disenfranchised.

Corporate-Americans, 1% votes are all that counts.

[Trill Clinton]

word. I fell for the 'vote for Obama because he's black' propaganda. I admit it. not being fooled again, he sold too many wolf tickets.

[boutons_deux]

also, i heard that 83% of doctors considered quitting over obamacare. that's crazy.


Comically Awful Survey Says 83 Percent Of Doctors Might Quit Over Obamacare

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/10/comically-awful-survey-says-83-percent-of-docto/187029

[mavs>spurs]

word. I fell for the 'vote for Obama because he's black' propaganda. I admit it. not being fooled again, he sold too many wolf tickets.

well don't feel too bad, i was 4 years younger and dumber and fell for the whole "change" thing. before i realized that politics were a sham.

[mavs>spurs]

Comically Awful Survey Says 83 Percent Of Doctors Might Quit Over Obamacare

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/10/comically-awful-survey-says-83-percent-of-docto/187029

all i see is a bunch of slander and reverse trolling. i know that obamacare is bad stuff, and that my own doctor is against it. that's all i need to know.

[CosmicCowboy]

He said he would do it later, after the small business write down deal is done (or killed by the Repugs)

We wouldn't put a full renewal of the Bush tax cuts to a vote either.

IMHO he's not going to allow a vote at all until at least after the election so the democrat incumbents don't have to explain their vote to their constituents.

[Clipper Nation]

smh...I'm sitting this election out. both sides don't give a fuck about the American people.

Write in Ron Paul or vote for Gary Johnson, B...

[Wild Cobra]

He said he would do it later, after the small business write down deal is done (or killed by the Repugs)
Just a delay tactic.

[Wild Cobra]

well don't feel too bad, i was 4 years younger and dumber and fell for the whole "change" thing. before i realized that politics were a sham.
I have hope and change now.

Only hope that Obama can't fuck this nation up and worse, and only change left in my pockets.

[DisAsTerBot]

well don't feel too bad, i was 4 years younger and dumber and fell for the whole "change" thing. before i realized that politics were a sham.

ahh innocence.... those were the days

[Wild Cobra]

We wouldn't put a full renewal of the Bush tax cuts to a vote either.

IMHO he's not going to allow a vote at all until at least after the election so the democrat incumbents don't have to explain their vote to their constituents.
Agreed.

[Shastafarian]

Who cares? Not getting past the Senate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

this move is actually good for the people though, if you know anything about economics. in socialist canada, you have to wait 18 months to get a test for carpel tunnel. Obamacare isn't going to do anything except hurt the economy and raise healthcare costs.

This is so fucking old. In America waiting for people without insurance for a test for carpal tunnel never ends. You don't get one.

We aren't even going to the Canadian system anyway.

[Juggity]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.

[Juggity]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.

[Wild Cobra]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.
No.

Election cycle posturing.

[baseline bum]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.

Hasn't it been more like 30 times?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hasn't it been more like 30 times?

Yeah this time makes it 31 since the ACA was passed.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is plenty of political posturing going on on both sides. As I previously pointed out, Obama saying he wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000, and trying to spin it as "The Republicans don't want to extend the tax cuts for the middle class" is total bullshit. Republicans put it up for a vote today to extend them for everyone and Reid wouldn't let them vote. Harry Reid won't put Obama's plan up in the Senate because he knows that enough Democrats will bail to keep it from passing. Pure posturing.

[boutons_deux]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.

todays's silliness was the

31st vote to repeal ACA

... just more unending evidence, going back to 2001 Jan that Repugs don't have the slightest interest in actually governing.

[CosmicCowboy]

... just more unending evidence, going back to 2001 Jan that Repugs don't have the slightest interest in actually governing.

And apparently neither does Obama.

Sad, really.

[mercos]

This vote was just Republicans trying to prove their mantra that government is bad via self fulfilling prophecy. Such a ridiculous waste of time. At this point, anybody that is paying attention knows that the Republicans don't like Obamacare and want to repeal it. They don't have to keep bringing up these votes they know aren't going anywhere. To repeat the same action and expect different results is madness.

What's really funny is that Republicans refuse to offer a serious replacement for Obamacare. They clearly don't have one, because Obama stole their's. I love how everyone seems to forget that Obamacare is the conservative, personal responsibility alternative to the true liberal solution, which is single payer.

And lol at the comment about waiting for a doctor in Canada. That argument comes up every time single payer is mentioned. I wonder how many Canadians or Western Europeans would give up their single payer system for what we have? I'm not a pollster, but I'm guessing not many...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This vote was just Republicans trying to prove their mantra that government is bad via self fulfilling prophecy. Such a ridiculous waste of time. At this point, anybody that is paying attention knows that the Republicans don't like Obamacare and want to repeal it. They don't have to keep bringing up these votes they know aren't going anywhere. To repeat the same action and expect different results is madness.

What's really funny is that Republicans refuse to offer a serious replacement for Obamacare. They clearly don't have one, because Obama stole their's. I love how everyone seems to forget that Obamacare is the conservative, personal responsibility alternative to the true liberal solution, which is single payer.

And lol at the comment about waiting for a doctor in Canada. That argument comes up every time single payer is mentioned. I wonder how many Canadians or Western Europeans would give up their single payer system for what we have? I'm not a pollster, but I'm guessing not many...

We have the lowest public opinion of our health care system in the western world.

[mavs>spurs]

They clearly don't have one, because Obama stole their's.

Um you do realize that Romney wrote the model for Obamacare right? We live in a democratic tyranny, both sides play us off against one another for the opportunity to rape.

[jack sommerset]

This is it. Unless ww3 comes into play, the president seats comes down to healthcare. Sad but true. God bless

[Wild Cobra]

Um you do realize that Romney wrote the model for Obamacare right? We live in a democratic tyranny, both sides play us off against one another for the opportunity to rape.
I didn't know that signing it into law meant he wrote it.

[Borat Sagyidev]

There is plenty of political posturing going on on both sides. As I previously pointed out, Obama saying he wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000, and trying to spin it as "The Republicans don't want to extend the tax cuts for the middle class" is total bullshit. Republicans put it up for a vote today to extend them for everyone and Reid wouldn't let them vote. Harry Reid won't put Obama's plan up in the Senate because he knows that enough Democrats will bail to keep it from passing. Pure posturing.

That's a pretty good compromise rather than giving them what they deserve. The Market is in a hell hole worldwide thanks to the greed of financial types. The worldwide debt is way over that of worldwide GDP. It's simply imaginary money bankers are playing with.

Not many of them are worth that much to society.

This is coming from someone who makes over 250k a year.

[Borat Sagyidev]

Um you do realize that Romney wrote the model for Obamacare right? We live in a democratic tyranny, both sides play us off against one another for the opportunity to rape.


I didn't know that signing it into law meant he wrote it.

The ACA is based off Romney's plan and GOP suggestions from Hillary care debates. They key item is leaving private insurance companies in the game, in this case..giving them guaranteed money.

Corruption to benefit insurance scumbags who provide no service and only take money.

It's nothing more than mandating a middleman comparable to a car dealership. In some cases, a car dealership is more enjoyable.

[mavs>spurs]

I didn't know that signing it into law meant he wrote it.

don't know why the link was being gay but here's the cached version

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ft2QJBjajdsJ:www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/10/11/how-mitt-romneys-health-care-experts-helped-design-obamacare/+romney+wrote+obamacare&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

that'll tell you what you need to know.

[Shastafarian]

If I recall correctly, this has already been put to vote with virtually the same result 2 or 3 times over the past year or so.

Empty posturing.


Hasn't it been more like 30 times?


Yeah this time makes it 31 since the ACA was passed.

OP was surprised :rollin

[Wild Cobra]

don't know why the link was being gay but here's the cached version

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ft2QJBjajdsJ:www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/10/11/how-mitt-romneys-health-care-experts-helped-design-obamacare/+romney+wrote+obamacare&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

that'll tell you what you need to know.
Yes it does.

In his words, he authored it. I also noted some very striking differences between his version and Obamacare. I like that he removed the authoritarian requirement of insured services, and allows for tailor made plans. If I were to be required by law to provide my own insurance, I would opt for something that only covers catastrophic events, or has like a $10k annual deductible before insurance pays. That way, i can pay as little as possible for a product I don't feel I need.

Obamacare absolutely stinks.

[ElNono]

More dog and pony show... Things like this is why Congress rates even lower than the President, and historically amongst the lowest ever... In the meantime, almost 2 in 10 Americans either don't have a job or are underemployed...

[Wild Cobra]

More dog and pony show... Things like this is why Congress rates even lower than the President, and historically amongst the lowest ever... In the meantime, almost 2 in 10 Americans either don't have a job or are underemployed...
If you are going to include underemployed, your number is low.

[ElNono]

If you are going to include underemployed, your number is low.

I checked... Last I found was for Jun 2012 at 17.8%...

[mercos]

Um you do realize that Romney wrote the model for Obamacare right? We live in a democratic tyranny, both sides play us off against one another for the opportunity to rape.

Of course I realize Romney wrote the model. That is why I said Obama stole their plan. :p: That is also why I said this vote, and Republican outrage in general against Obamacare, is ludicrous. Obamacare is a conservative, Republican plan.

Call me naive, but I don't think Democrats would go this bat shit crazy if Republicans had tried to pass a single payer system during the Bush years. Democrats are far from perfect, but trying to say they are as bad as Republicans are right now is a joke. Between using the filibuster on almost every piece of legislation that comes to the table, and Mitch McConnell outright saying that his top priority was defeating the president, the Republican party has been acting borderline treasonous.

[Wild Cobra]

I checked... Last I found was for Jun 2012 at 17.8%...
I thought you didn't believe these official numbers?

[ElNono]

I thought you didn't believe these official numbers?

They were from Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/gallup-daily-workforce.aspx)...

[Nbadan]

While Republicans lambast the cost of implementing health care reform, a new report shows that their efforts to repeal the law have come at a major cost to taxpayers -- to the tune of nearly $50 million.

The House of Representatives again voted to repeal President Obama's signature health care law on Wednesday, marking the 33rd time Republicans have attempted to take down the legislation. The 32 previous repeal efforts faltered at the hands of the Democrat-controlled Senate; the latest attempt is unlikely to break that pattern.

According to a report by CBS News, these efforts, widely viewed as symbolic political maneuvers, come with a high price tag.

CBS' Nancy Cordes reported Wednesday that Republicans' many fruitless attempts at repealing the Affordable Care Act have taken up at least 80 hours of time on the House floor since 2010, amounting to two full work weeks. As the House, according to the Congressional Research Service, costs taxpayers $24 million a week to operate, those two weeks amounted to a total cost of approximately $48 million.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/11/health-care-law-repeal_n_1666917.html

[boutons_deux]

And apparently neither does Obama.

Sad, really.

Obama got ACA done, got the too-small stimulus done, EPA is working better, etc, etc.

Repugs have done NOTHING for USA since 2001.

[Clipper Nation]

Repugs have done NOTHING for USA since 2001.
You say as if Obama isn't doing basically the exact same things as Bush... :lmao

Face it, Obama is DNC Dubya...

[boutons_deux]

You say as if Obama isn't doing basically the exact same things as Bush

You Lie

ACA, EPA enforcement, job stimulus, border enforcement/deportations were NEVER done by dubya, and would never have been done.

The other shit that dubya and dickhead put in motion have a momentum that will carry on for years, if not for decades.

[mavs>spurs]

You Lie

ACA, EPA enforcement, job stimulus, border enforcement/deportations were NEVER done by dubya, and would never have been done.

The other shit that dubya and dickhead put in motion have a momentum that will carry on for years, if not for decades.

What are you talking about? ACA was one of the worst things he could have done to us. EPA enforcement was just a front for corporate cronyism designed to help out GE by shutting down the competition and coal burning plants, which don't actually emit that much pollution due to technology advances. The job stimulus was a massive fail, unemployment and underemployment are terrible. The few deportations they've done with a few criminals is just a cover for allowing a mass influx of non criminal illegals and the amnesty he just gave where the ones who have been here can now compete with americans for work. All the "good" you can come up with was actually the bads, plus the shit that everyone universally agrees was the bads. Like bombing libya without congressional approval and killing 50,000, stomping states rights, continued stomping on the constitution, going above congress to make deals with foreign governments, the NDAA bill and massive expansion of government spying on its own people, giving police drones under his watch, etc. The guy is the worst president we've ever had, even a notch above your hated dubya who comes in at #2.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The jury is still out on the ACA. If anything I see a larger percentage of money going from hospitals and insurance companies and more to doctors and especially nursing types. I see a lot of people able to get care. I think once small businesses realize that they can get massive subsidies or split the difference and come out winners like CC talks about then that fear will go away. I think middle class families that will get massive subsidieds to pay for insurance on their own will come to appreciate it especially those that cannot currently get it through their job for whatever reason. I think this whole "you can keep the plan you have if you like it" scare tactic is weak as shit.

We shall see but I think it will be better than the status quo and if its not them we should try something else. Sitting on our hads which is what they would have us do is not the answer. Not on climate. Not on health care. Not on banking reregulation. None of it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh, the middle class will definitely pay for their health care. Higher hidden taxes, lower wages (if they work for a company that hires more than 50 people) and ultimately higher and higher premiums as insurance companies have to absorb the uninsured with half million dollar pre-conditions.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh, the middle class will definitely pay for their health care. Higher hidden taxes, lower wages (if they work for a company that hires more than 50 people) and ultimately higher and higher premiums as insurance companies have to absorb the uninsured with half million dollar pre-conditions.

And the uninsured millions that are under 29 have no conditions and have a statistically small chance of needing expensive medical care will factor in. Emergency service also stands to lessen which is incredibly cost inefficient.

The CBO says one thing and BueCross/BlueShield think tanks say something else. I do not know what its going to turn out as but this notion that it's guaranteed to fail is just partisan bullshit.

[mavs>spurs]

People under 29 don't have jobs to afford the shit :lol

[Borat Sagyidev]

Should have been single payer.

Insurance companies are scum. They make money providing no services.

[leemajors]

GOP House voted to keep their personal enhanced healthcare while voting to repeal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/health-care-democrats-gop-repeal-vote_n_1675551.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009


“House Republicans refuse to admit they voted to give themselves taxpayer funded lifetime guaranteed health care instead of having the same health care as their constituents,” said Jesse Ferguson, spokesman for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, referring to the fact that members of Congress are eligible for retirement benefits after just five years.

[boutons_deux]

Corporation lying:

Aetna Shareholders ‘Dismayed’ Over Insurer’s Donations To Anti-Obamacare Campaigns

A group of Aetna shareholders is challenging the health insurer for donating to the American Action Network and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce — two organizations dedicated to undermining Obamacare.

Aetna donated over $7 million to the two groups during the Democrats’ effort to enact health care reform, though the contributions did not become public until this year, when the company accidentally “made the disclosure in a year-end regulatory filing with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/07/14/517291/aetna-shareholders-dismayed-over-insurers-donations-to-anti-obamacare-campaigns/

yep, shareholders have maximum leverage over the corporation they "own".

This situation is no different from a union not in agreement with his union's political donations, which is a horrible disaster according to right-wingers, but where are the right-wingers whining about shareholders being ignored and lied to by their corporation?

[boutons_deux]

What are you talking about? ACA was one of the worst things he could have done to us. EPA enforcement was just a front for corporate cronyism designed to help out GE by shutting down the competition and coal burning plants, which don't actually emit that much pollution due to technology advances. The job stimulus was a massive fail, unemployment and underemployment are terrible. The few deportations they've done with a few criminals is just a cover for allowing a mass influx of non criminal illegals and the amnesty he just gave where the ones who have been here can now compete with americans for work. All the "good" you can come up with was actually the bads, plus the shit that everyone universally agrees was the bads. Like bombing libya without congressional approval and killing 50,000, stomping states rights, continued stomping on the constitution, going above congress to make deals with foreign governments, the NDAA bill and massive expansion of government spying on its own people, giving police drones under his watch, etc. The guy is the worst president we've ever had, even a notch above your hated dubya who comes in at #2.

Above is all right-wing lies, propaganda, talking points, and you're not a Repug? GFY

Five Obamacare Myths



ON the subject of the Affordable Care Act - Obamacare, to reclaim the name critics have made into a slur - a number of fallacies seem to be congealing into accepted wisdom. Much of this is the result of unrelenting Republican propaganda and right-wing punditry, but it has gone largely unchallenged by gun-shy Democrats. The result is that voters are confronted with slogans and side issues - "It's a tax!" "No, it's a penalty!" - rather than a reality-based discussion. Let's unpack a few of the most persistent myths.

OBAMACARE IS A JOB-KILLER. The House Republican majority was at it again last week, staging the 33rd theatrical vote to roll back the Affordable Care Act. And once again the cliché of the day was "job-killer." After years of trying out various alarmist falsehoods the Republicans have found one that seems, judging from the polls, to have connected with the fears of voters.

Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would "reduce the amount of labor used in the economy" by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who - being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net - may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.

The impartial truth squad FactCheck.org has debunked the job-killer claim so many times that in its latest update you can hear a groan of weary frustration: words like "whopper" and "bogus" and "hooey." The job-killer claim is also discredited by the experience under the Massachusetts law on which Obamacare was modeled.

Ultimately the Affordable Care Act could be a tonic for the economy. It aims to slow the raging growth of health care costs by, among other things, using the government's Medicare leverage to move doctors away from exorbitant fee-for-service medicine, with its incentive to pile on unnecessary procedures. Two veteran health economists, David Cutler of Harvard and Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund, have calculated that over the first decade of Obamacare total spending on health care, in part by employers, will be half a trillion dollars lower than under the status quo.

OBAMACARE IS A FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF HEALTH INSURANCE. Let's be blunt. The word for that is "lie." The main thing the law does is deliver 30 million new customers to the private insurance industry. Indeed, a significant portion of the unhappiness with Obamacare comes from liberals who believe it is not nearly federal enough: that the menu of insurance choices should have included a robust public option, or that Medicare should have been expanded into a form of universal coverage.

Under the law, to be sure, insurance will be governed by new regulations, and supported by new subsidies. This is not the law Ayn Rand would have written. But the share of health care spending that comes from the federal government is expected to rise only modestly, to nearly 50 percent in 2021, and much of that is due not to Obamacare but to baby boomers joining Medicare.

This is a "federal takeover" only in the crazy world where Barack Obama is a "socialist."

THE UNFETTERED MARKETPLACE IS A BETTER SOLUTION. To the extent there is a profound difference of principle anywhere in this debate, it lies here. Conservatives contend that if you give consumers a voucher or a tax credit and set them loose in the marketplace they will do a better job than government at finding the services - schools, retirement portfolios, or in this case health insurance policies - that fit their needs.

I'm a pretty devout capitalist, and I see that in some cases individual responsibility helps contain wasteful spending on health care. If you have to share the cost of that extra M.R.I. or elective surgery, you'll think hard about whether you really need it. But I'm deeply suspicious of the claim that a health care system dominated by powerful vested interests and mystifying in its complexity can be tamed by consumers who are strapped for time, often poor, sometimes uneducated, confused and afraid.

"Ten percent of the population accounts for 60 percent of the health outlays," said Davis. "They are the very sick, and they are not really in a position to make cost-conscious choices."

LEAVE IT TO THE STATES. THEY'LL FIX IT. The Republican alternative to Obamacare consists in large part of letting each state do its own thing. Presumably the best ideas will go viral.

States do have a long history of pioneering new ideas, sometimes enlightened (Oregon's vote-by-mail comes to mind) and sometimes less benign (see Florida's loopy gun laws). Obamacare actually underwrites pilot programs to reduce costs, and gives states freedom - some would argue too much freedom - in designing insurance-buying exchanges. But the best ideas don't spread spontaneously. Some states are too poor to adopt worthwhile reforms. Some are intransigent, or held captive by lobbies.

You've heard a lot about the Massachusetts law. You may not have heard about the seven other states that passed laws requiring insurers to offer coverage to all. They were dismal failures because they failed to mandate that everyone, including the young and healthy, buy in. Massachusetts - fairly progressive, relatively affluent, with an abundance of health providers - included a mandate and became the successful exception. To expand that program beyond Massachusetts required ... Barack Obama.

OBAMACARE IS A LOSER. RUN AGAINST IT, RUN FROM IT, BUT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE DON'T RUN ON IT. When Mitt Romney signed that Massachusetts law in 2006, the coverage kicked in almost immediately. Robert Blendon, a Harvard expert on health and public opinion, recalls the profusion of heartwarming stories about people who had depended on emergency rooms and charity but now, at last, had a regular relationship with a doctor. Romneycare was instantly popular in the state, and remains so, though it seems to have been disowned by its creator.

Unfortunately, the benefits of Obamacare do not go wide until 2014, so there are not yet testimonials from enthusiastic, family-next-door beneficiaries. This helps explain why the bill has not won more popular affection. (It also explains why the Republicans are so desperate to kill it now, before Americans feel the abundant rewards.)

Blendon believes that because of the delayed benefits and the general economic anxiety, "It will be very hard for the Democrats to move the needle" on the issue this election year.

He may be right, but shame on the Democrats if they don't try. There's no reason except cowardice for failing to mount a full-throated defense of the law. It is not perfect, but it is humane, it is (thanks to the Supreme Court) fiscally viable, and it comes with some reasonable hopes of reforming the cockeyed way we pay health care providers.

Even before the law takes full effect, it has a natural constituency, starting with every cancer victim, every H.I.V. sufferer, everyone with a condition that now would keep them from getting affordable coverage. Any family that has passed through the purgatory of cancer - as mine did this year, with decent insurance - can imagine the hell of doing it without insurance.

Against this, Mitt Romney offers some vague free-market principles and one unambiguous promise: to dash the hopes of 30 million uninsured, and add a few million to their ranks by slashing Medicaid.

If the Obama campaign needs a snappy one-liner, it could borrow this one from David Cutler: "Never before in history has a candidate run for president with the idea that too many people have insurance coverage."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article;jsessionid=673D32B77C2C63F411318690515BC77 D?a=948354&f=28&sub=Columnist