Che Guevara t-shirts banned from the Olympic park

[ElNono]

Che Guevara t-shirts banned from the Olympic park, as well as vuvuzelas, bottled water and 'excessive' food (http://www.tntmagazine.com/news/olympics-and-paralympics/che-guevara-t-shirts-banned-from-the-olympic-park-as-well-as-vuvuzelas-bottled-water-and-excessive-food)

Brits :lol

[Yonivore]

Man, I'm down with the vuvuzela shit. That was fucking annoying.

[ElNono]

Man, I'm down with the vuvuzela shit. That was fucking annoying.

co-sign

[baseline bum]

Man, I'm down with the vuvuzela shit. That was fucking annoying.

Even better if they banned soccer to kill two birds with one stone.

[TeyshaBlue]

Even better if they banned soccer to kill two birds with one stone.

Winner.:lobt:

[boutons_deux]

ain't nobody gonna kill soccer. It's a business MUCH BIGGER than, eg, the NBA business.

[baseline bum]

They should kill the idea of NBA players going to the Olympics too.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I'm all for the Che banning. Why that monster is put on a pedestal in any way is disgusting.

[Yonivore]

I'm all for the Che banning. Why that monster is put on a pedestal in any way is disgusting.
I guess there's something romantic about being Castro's executioner.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I guess there's something romantic about being Castro's executioner.

and an exterminator of homosexuals

[ElNono]

I'm all for the Che banning. Why that monster is put on a pedestal in any way is disgusting.

Dude is dead... Its just a t-shirt, what's the big deal? :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Dude is dead... Its just a t-shirt, what's the big deal? :lol
People complain about lack of freedom here. Few other nations enjoy the same level of freedom of speech as we do.

[Winehole23]

Great Britain sure doesn't.

[TDMVPDPOY]

do nba players get drug tested at the olympics?

[Yonivore]

Dude is dead... Its just a t-shirt, what's the big deal? :lol
I'm sure there are families of the hundreds executed by Guevara that may find is a big deal.

[ElNono]

I'm sure there are families of the hundreds executed by Guevara that may find is a big deal.

Have them sue the t-shirt makers and find out in court if their grievances are more important than freedom of speech... heck, I'm pretty sure they already know the answer.

[Yonivore]

Have them sue the t-shirt makers and find out in court if their grievances are more important than freedom of speech... heck, I'm pretty sure they already know the answer.
I'm not disagreeing with you on it being a free speech issue and, I wouldn't propose any government intervention in the expression of ignorance by those who lionize Che Guevara.

Tell me, are you as cavalier about the sensitivities of African-Americans and the symbols and expressions of racism? Women and the chauvinism?

Or, are people only expected to ignore hateful speech when it comes from the corners of extreme left ideologies?

Just curious.

By the way, I'm completely in favor of idiots (of all stripes) self-identifying. At least I know who not to patronize with my money.

[ElNono]

I'm not disagreeing with you on it being a free speech issue and, I wouldn't propose any government intervention in the expression of ignorance by those who lionize Che Guevara.

Tell me, are you as cavalier about the sensitivities of African-Americans and the symbols and expressions of racism? Women and the chauvinism?

Or, are people only expected to ignore hateful speech when it comes from the corners of extreme left ideologies?

Just curious.

But I'm not 'sensitive' about it. I'm actually laughing at the whole thing.

I simply find amusing that a 1st world country like the UK thinks banning arbitrary images stamped on a t-shirt is an important issue.

[Yonivore]

But I'm not 'sensitive' about it. I'm actually laughing at the whole thing.
Do you laugh when someone gets their hackles up over Confederate flag imagery, white robes, or slavery images?


I simply find amusing that a 1st world country like the UK thinks banning arbitrary images stamped on a t-shirt is an important issue.
Do you find it equally amusing when the United States (arguably, still a 1st world country) bans images of racism at government schools?

I guess I'm not following you here. Are you suggesting some peoples sensitivities are worthy of government protection while others are not?

[ElNono]

Do you laugh when someone gets their hackles up over Confederate flag imagery, white robes, or slavery images?

People getting worked up over other clearly retarded/ignorant people? I do. I think it's hilarious.


Do you find it equally amusing when the United States (arguably, still a 1st world country) bans images of racism at government schools?

I guess I'm not following you here. Are you suggesting some peoples sensitivities are worthy of government protection while others are not?

You don't follow because you've set up your own strawmen.

Equality is certainly worthy of government protection. Or so says the US Constitution. Images of dead people? Not so much.

[Yonivore]

People getting worked up over other clearly retarded/ignorant people? I do. I think it's hilarious.
Do you do that in front of the people getting worked up over other clearly retarded/ignorant people?

Do you bust out in laughter when a racist clearly offends an African-American, in your presence? How do you think that would be perceived by the offended person?


You don't follow because you've set up your own strawmen.

Equality is certainly worthy of government protection. Or so says the US Constitution. Images of dead people? Not so much.
There's a difference between equality and being offended. All people have the right to be treated equally, under the law. No one has the right to not be offended.

[ElNono]

Do you do that in front of the people getting worked up over other clearly retarded/ignorant people?

Do you bust out in laughter when a racist clearly offends an African-American, in your presence? How do you think that would be perceived by the offended person?

I laugh at the retarded/ignorant people and the person who gets offended by them equally. Neither are really worth of my time.

I smile too when I see confederate flag bumper-stickers or "Secede!" bumper stickers (largely during my Texas visits).

Are you suggesting that my reaction to such encounters should be regulated somehow?


There's a difference between equality and being offended. All people have the right to be treated equally, under the law. No one has the right to not be offended.

But they're two completely different issues. Racism falls squarely into the Equality clause, and thus is afforded constitutional protection.

Images of dead people stamped on a t-shirt do not fall into the protections afforded by the Equality clause. They actually fall squarely into the 1st amendment protections.

What an individual finds offensive is frankly irrelevant. Otherwise, things like porn would've been illegal for a while now.

[Yonivore]

I laugh at the retarded/ignorant people and the person who gets offended by them equally. Neither are really worth of my time.

I smile too when I see confederate flag bumper-stickers or "Secede!" bumper stickers (largely during my Texas visits).

Are you suggesting that my reaction to such encounters should be regulated somehow?
Nope. Just wondering how an African-American might view your amusement.


But they're two completely different issues. Racism falls squarely into the Equality clause, and thus is afforded constitutional protection.

Images of dead people stamped on a t-shirt do not fall into the protections afforded by the Equality clause. They actually fall squarely into the 1st amendment protections.

What an individual finds offensive is frankly irrelevant. Otherwise, things like porn would've been illegal for a while now.
Actually they're identical. I think you're conflating criminal actions resulting from racism with racism itself.

It's no more a crime to wear a t-shirt depicting a racist ideologue than it is to wear a t-shirt depicting a communist ideologue yet, only one is controlled at government schools or frowned on by most of U.S. Society; although I suspect a Che shirt in some parts of Miami would be about as welcome as a Kleagle Klan shirt in some parts of Atlanta...or, just about anywhere in America.

[ElNono]

Nope. Just wondering how an African-American might view your amusement.

Who cares?


Actually they're identical. I think you're conflating criminal actions resulting from racism with racism itself.

You said racism. I'm sticking to what you said.
They're not identical at all. I'm pretty sure the Equality clause doesn't protect dead people stamped on a t-shirt. If it does, please quote the relevant portion of the clause.


It's no more a crime to wear a t-shirt depicting a racist ideologue than it is to wear a t-shirt depicting a communist ideologue

What t-shirt of a racist ideologue was banned? Oh, and BTW, it's been well established by the SCOTUS that schools have certain overriding powers over the 1st amendment. Again, apples and oranges.

[Yonivore]

Who cares?
Well, I think African-Americans care. Just as the families of the victims of Che Guevara might care.

That's kind of the point.


You said racism. I'm sticking to what you said.
They're not identical at all. I'm pretty sure the Equality clause doesn't protect dead people stamped on a t-shirt. If it does, please quote the relevant portion of the clause.
The Equality clause doesn't protect people from racist ideal either. I would hope the Equal protection clause would protect people from Che Guevara's actions -- if not his image.

Racism isn't illegal. If it were, there'd be a whole lot more people in jail.


What t-shirt of a racist ideologue was banned? Oh, and BTW, it's been well established by the SCOTUS that schools have certain overriding powers over the 1st amendment. Again, apples and oranges.
Are you suggesting a person wearing a t-shirt depicting a Klansman, holding a noose, would not be banned from every public or government venue into which someone tried to wear it?

Apples and apples. Che and the Klan both devalued human life and did unspeakable things in the name of their twisted ideologies. I think those negatively affected by such men deserve sensitivity and I see the UK banning Che shirts as suitable expression of that sensitivity as much as I see similar attempts to squash racist expressions, here in the US, as proper expressions of that same sensitivity.

After all, you don't have the right to attend the Olympics; buying tickets into the venue constitutes a contract between you and the IOC; and, if the IOC is okay with the ban, you either show up without the shirt or break your contract.

[ElNono]

Well, I think African-Americans care. Just as the families of the victims of Che Guevara might care.

Well, the 1st amendment is more important than their feelings.


The Equality clause doesn't protect people from racist ideal either.

Sure it does. It prevents such ideal from actually taking place.


I would hope the Equal protection clause would protect people from Che Guevara's actions -- if not his image.

It doesn't. If you think it does, please post the relevant section.


Racism isn't illegal. If it were, there'd be a whole lot more people in jail.

You're confused. What's protected in America is hate speech. Actual discrimination on the basis of race is racism and it's illegal, per the Equality clause.


Are you suggesting a person wearing a t-shirt depicting a Klansman, holding a noose, would not be banned from every public or government venue into which someone tried to wear it?

I don't think he should be. As a matter of fact, a lot of private and public colleges have tried to put limits like that and fared pretty poorly in court (see Doe v. Michigan, Corry v. Stanford, Dambrot v. Central Michigan University, etc)

I would suspect such a ban would be challenged and eventually declared unconstitutional.


Apples and apples. Che and the Klan both devalued human life and did unspeakable things in the name of their twisted ideologies. I think those negatively affected by such men deserve sensitivity and I see the UK banning Che shirts as suitable expression of that sensitivity as much as I see similar attempts to squash racist expressions, here in the US, as proper expressions of that same sensitivity.

How you personally feel about it is irrelevant. The law makes a clear distinction, even if you don't.


After all, you don't have the right to attend the Olympics; buying tickets into the venue constitutes a contract between you and the IOC; and, if the IOC is okay with the ban, you either show up without the shirt or break your contract.

I didn't say the UK did anything wrong. I merely pointed out I find it amusing.

[Ginobilly]

This is just going to make those Che-Guevara Tshirts even more popular in Europe, just watch. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of racist neo-nazi loser teens in Europe start wearing them now even more. Bad move by the Brits.

[Ginobilly]

I didn't know really personally about the life of Che Guevara or what he stood for until a few years ago. I always taught it was a picture of the singer of Rage against the Machine?:lmao:oops:huh

[Yonivore]

Well, the 1st amendment is more important than their feelings.
I won't argue. That doesn't absolve us of having some sense of decency, doe s it?


Sure it does. It prevents such ideal from actually taking place.
You can prevent ideals with the law?


It doesn't. If you think it does, please post the relevant section.
Are you suggesting the Equal Protection Clause doesn't protect people from being treated equally under the law, preventing summary executions because you disagree with the political regime in power?

Yeah, the Equal Protection Clause does protect us against the actions of the Che Guevaras and the Kleagle Byrds of the world.


You're confused. What's protected in America is hate speech. Actual discrimination on the basis of race is racism and it's illegal, per the Equality clause.
So, the discrimination is illegal, not the racism. As I suggested, you can be a racist so long as you don't commit any acts that are illegal.


I don't think he should be. As a matter of fact, a lot of private and public colleges have tried to put limits like that and fared pretty poorly in court (see Doe v. Michigan, Corry v. Stanford, Dambrot v. Central Michigan University, etc)

I would suspect such a ban would be challenged and eventually declared unconstitutional.
Long after the Olympics are over -- mission accomplished.


How you personally feel about it is irrelevant. The law makes a clear distinction, even if you don't.
The law makes no distinction between the two ideas. Anyone is free to hold those ideas and express them.


I didn't say the UK did anything wrong. I merely pointed out I find it amusing.
And, I merely pointed out the victims of Che Guevara and his ideology probably don't.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol T-shirt commies

[ElNono]

I won't argue. That doesn't absolve us of having some sense of decency, does it?

What different people think is "decent" is a matter of opinion.


You can prevent ideals with the law?

I said the law protects people from certain ideals actually taking place, which effectively greatly diminishes such ideals.


Are you suggesting the Equal Protection Clause doesn't protect people from being treated equally under the law, preventing summary executions because you disagree with the political regime in power?

How many summary executions are made by stamped t-shirts?


Yeah, the Equal Protection Clause does protect us against the actions of the Che Guevaras and the Kleagle Byrds of the world.

Are you going to backup that assertion with actual legal precedent? Third time I ask. I gather you can't.


So, the discrimination is illegal, not the racism. As I suggested, you can be a racist so long as you don't commit any acts that are illegal.

Racism is a broad term, that includes certain legal and illegal acts.

There's nothing illegal about wearing a stamped t-shirt displaying a dead person. In America, at least.


The law makes no distinction between the two ideas. Anyone is free to hold those ideas and express them.

Sure, but racism isn't just an idea. It also encompasses certain clearly illegal actions. There's no such thing with stamped t-shirts. Apples and oranges.

[Jacob1983]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2hkloxOKi1r1mpi1o1_500.jpg