Penn State

[xrayzebra]

AP: Penn State To Renovate Showers Where Victims Abused

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/07/13/ap-penn-state-to-renovate-showers-where-victims-abused/

Wonder if they will put up a historical marker to mark the spot.

[TheProfessor]

“He won more football games than anyone in the world. That accomplishment stands. He helped build Penn State as it is today. He stood for integrity,” said Zujaowski, who attended Friday’s board of trustees meeting. “Statute or nor statue, that legacy remains, and I believe that the statue should stand in memory of that.”
I think that pretty much encapsulates how messed up all this is.

[Yonivore]

I think that pretty much encapsulates how messed up all this is.
And, Hitler made the trains run on time.

The point being, one fuck up can ruin a legacy.

If Paterno knew Sandusky was a pedophile and let it go, he deserves to be erased from the record books, have his name stripped from all buildings, his statues pulled down, and the name "Nobody" put in its place.

[leemajors]

Neither Hitler nor Paterno had just one fuck up.

[Yonivore]

Neither Hitler nor Paterno had just one fuck up.
True.

[101A]

I live up here in Pa - the hero worship for this guy is obscene. The local press, however, is not sugar coating it. When it fully sinks in to the consciousness, I think the legacy, even among the Penn State people has to be, not just tarnished, but fully destroyed.

KIDS WERE RAPED!!

Needs to be repeated, loudly, every time someone wants to defend anything related to Penn State Football.

[Capt Bringdown]

And, Hitler made the trains run on time.

The point being, one fuck up can ruin a legacy.

If Paterno knew Sandusky was a pedophile and let it go, he deserves to be erased from the record books, have his name stripped from all buildings, his statues pulled down, and the name "Nobody" put in its place.

FWIW, the colloquialism is "Mussolini made the trains run on time," and it's a myth:

Snopes: Mussolini did not make the trains run on time (http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp)

[Drachen]

FWIW, the colloquialism is "Mussolini made the trains run on time," and it's a myth:

Snopes: Mussolini did not make the trains run on time (http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp)

LOL! I love the fact that Snopes did a piece on if Mussolini made the trains run on time.

[Drachen]

Also, people had been taking sandusky's image and name out of murals and memorials, etc. I have read that similarly, people are beginning to do this to paterno.

edit:
I am sure that EVERYONE but me realized this before now, but does anyone else see the irony here when you take JoPa's last name into account?

[CosmicCowboy]

It sounds pretty clear that high officials protected Sandusky and allowed the rape of little boys to continue for years. Guess Sandusky was a good coach. Anyone that was complicit in the cover up should be in the state pen instead of at penn state.

[Drachen]

It sounds pretty clear that high officials protected Sandusky and allowed the rape of little boys to continue for years. Guess Sandusky was a good coach. Anyone that was complicit in the cover up should be in the state pen instead of at penn state.

(Rimshot!)

[Yonivore]

FWIW, the colloquialism is "Mussolini made the trains run on time," and it's a myth:

Snopes: Mussolini did not make the trains run on time (http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp)
I even got the dictator wrong.

Thanks for the correction but, I was just using a familiar cliche to demonstrate the point that even evil degenerates can do one thing right.

[Bartleby]

A few years ago Sandusky tried to worm his way into a consulting position for the (consistently awful) football program at a small PA college where I live. Fortunately, they knew enough about him to tell him to stay the hell away.

[Blake]

Cosmic comedian

[Edward]

After the report, there will be something seriously wrong if Penn State has a football season this year.

[ChumpDumper]

After the report, there will be something seriously wrong if Penn State has a football season this year.Probably too late to do anything about it for this coming season. My guess is the NCAA does its own official investigation now and imposes sanctions over the next season(s) with some lighter version of the death penalty.

[Yonivore]

Probably too late to do anything about it for this coming season. My guess is the NCAA does its own official investigation now and imposes sanctions over the next season(s) with some lighter version of the death penalty.
Penn State doesn't have to wait for the NCAA; they can do the right thing and kill the season, today.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Penn State doesn't have to wait for the NCAA; they can do the right thing and kill the season, today.
Even though there isn't a chance in hell this happens, I agree with Yoni. Killing the season and suspending the program indefinitely is what Penn State should do (Bob Costas talked about this on meet the press).

IMO, if Penn State imposes sanctions and self-imposes a season long program suspension then that's the proper punishment. If Penn State thinks they've washed their hands of this simply by firing some people and don't deserve sanctions themselves, then they should get a 2-3 year football ban.

[ChumpDumper]

As I said, probably too late. This isn't happening in a vacuum. I guess they could just forfeit all their games, but that seriously screws all the teams they are scheduled to play, especially Virginia and all the B1G teams State would play on the road. Maybe if there's some kind of insurance for it or Penn State covers at least a portion of the losses for those other programs, that could be OK.

[Blake]

Guess I'm still in a small minority that thinks the NCAA should do nothing.

[Yonivore]

Even though there isn't a chance in hell this happens, I agree with Yoni. Killing the season and suspending the program indefinitely is what Penn State should do (Bob Costas talked about this on meet the press).

IMO, if Penn State imposes sanctions and self-imposes a season long program suspension then that's the proper punishment. If Penn State thinks they've washed their hands of this simply by firing some people and don't deserve sanctions themselves, then they should get a 2-3 year football ban.
Perhaps they are that stupid.

I saw the Costas interview, as well. I think he raises the most important point for Penn State to grasp. The more severe the self-flagellation is, the less severe will be the NCAA penalty and equates to getting back to football sooner, rather than later.

If Penn State were smart, they'd transfer scholarships, release players, and kill the program...today.

[boutons_deux]

Penn State is like the Catholic Church, or any large organization.

Pope Paterno and his money making machine were/are much more important than any individual.

"Some (Corporate)Americans Are More Equal Than Other (Human)Americans" on the American Money Farm.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The current players and most of the current coaches and staff will end up paying for it even though they had zero to do with the abuse and cover-up. collateral damage so to speak.

[TeyshaBlue]

Penn State is like the Catholic Church, or any large organization.

Pope Paterno and his money making machine were/are much more important than any individual.

"Some (Corporate)Americans Are More Equal Than Other (Human)Americans" on the American Money Farm.

It figures you'd bring your bot-speak this thread even. :facepalm


This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, or Corporate America.
This has everything to do with Public Universities falling in love with revenue.

[TeyshaBlue]

The current players and most of the current coaches and staff will end up paying for it even though they had zero to do with the abuse and cover-up. collateral damage so to speak.

The SMU debacle kinda pales compared to the systemic enabling of a child rapist by a university, doesn't it? Yet, they got the death penalty. Anything less than that for Penn State is absurd.

[Yonivore]

The current players and most of the current coaches and staff will end up paying for it even though they had zero to do with the abuse and cover-up. collateral damage so to speak.
Yep. Unfortunately, that's the case in all such cases. In order for Penn State to truly be punished for their institutional failure to the child victims of Sandusky, there's going to be some innocent collateral damage.

However, if Penn State acts now, they can mitigate the damage to those innocent student athletes by helping them find other schools to attend. I have no sympathy for the coaches...I have a hard time believing anyone associated with the football program was unaware of some aspect of Sandusky's behavior and you'd have to be an idiot to apply for a coaching job at the university, right now.

[jack sommerset]

I think they have been punished. Sandusky is in jail. Paterno is in Gods hands now. Anyone associated with the cover up is gone. The football program is on life support and will be dead within a year or two because recruiting will be next to impossible. I have not seen anyone wear a penn state shirt since all this broke. You see that logo, it only reminds people of a 10 year old getting raped in the shower by a coach. God bless

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The current players and most of the current coaches and staff will end up paying for it even though they had zero to do with the abuse and cover-up. collateral damage so to speak.
As costas said, there's always collateral damage for these types of situations, and the NCAA has a history of punishments that hurt the current coach more than the coach who committed the infractions. Lane Kiffin for example is paying for Pete Carroll's infractions.

And while some of them couldn't have avoided this, I have no sympathy for Jim O'Brien (their new coach) or any of the incoming freshmen. They made their own bed going to a program they knew was involved in a child molestation scandal. If I was a coach or a recruit, that alone would scare me off.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I guess that last post was pointless since Yoni basically said the same thing on the last page.

[Yonivore]

I think they have been punished. Sandusky is in jail. Paterno is in Gods hands now. Anyone associated with the cover up is gone. The football program is on life support and will be dead within a year or two because recruiting will be next to impossible. I have not seen anyone wear a penn state shirt since all this broke. You see that logo, it only reminds people of a 10 year old getting raped in the shower by a coach. God bless
It's not just about Penn State. The NCAA has to demonstrate, to all universities that deify their football program, they will come down hard when they put program over lives.

And, given the amount of information now being revealed about how pervasive were the rumors of Sandusky's behavior, I doubt all the guilty have been dismissed.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The SMU debacle kinda pales compared to the systemic enabling of a child rapist by a university, doesn't it? Yet, they got the death penalty. Anything less than that for Penn State is absurd.

that's the problem with the death penalty, it punishes the wrong people.

[ChumpDumper]

However, if Penn State acts now, they can mitigate the damage to those innocent student athletes by helping them find other schools to attend.Are there 85 scholarships still available in all of the FBS?

[Yonivore]

that's the problem with the death penalty, it punishes the wrong people.
I read a good article yesterday, I'll try to find it. The NCAA basically reserves the death penalty for institutional infractions.

Penn State would be punished for allowing such a climate to exist in their football program...perhaps they'll be more attentive to any such allegations, in the future.

I'll echo Jack in saying, this scandal has been in the headlines for more than a football season -- anyone that signed on to Penn State's football program, after the story broke, make a calculated decision and get's to ride the storm. Maybe it was a risk worth taking but, I don't know of anyone who doubted the NCAA would harshly penalize Penn State if it was discovered Joe Paterno was hiding something.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

that's the problem with the death penalty, it punishes the wrong people.
I agree with you to an extent but the NCAA has been punishing the wrong people for years and they should maintain consistency. They shouldn't randomly start caring about only punishing the people who deserve it, especially in a situation that calls for a more severe punishment than ever before.

[TeyshaBlue]

You cut off their football revenue and you're punishing the right people.

[Yonivore]

Found it.

The Death Penalty for Penn State Football (http://www.anchorrising.com/barnacles/014572.html)


The NCAA has various levels of penalties they can apply to the program, from the loss of scholarships and fines, putting the program on probation, or all the way to the total elimination of the sport. The death penalty is reserved for instances where there is a total "lack of institutional control." Sometimes you get a rogue coach that gets out of control. They have lesser penalties for that sort of thing, especially when the athletic department themselves step in and institute a punishment. Sometimes it is the whole athletic department that is out of control. That's where the university can step in and clean it up, along with the NCAA. Then you have the level where the entire institution has lost their way, from top to bottom. That is the case here with Penn State. This is the situation that the death penalty was created for.

If the NCAA applies the death penalty to Penn State football, one of the crown jewels in college sports, it will send a message to every college president that no one is sacred, no one will be spared if your athletics program is out of control. It's a huge understatement to say that allegations like child molestation are serious and are far more important than any game or program. The entire Penn State University administration failed to realize this and now they need to pay the price. I hope the NCAA does the right thing.

[Oh, Gee!!]

....NCAA has been punishing the wrong people for years and they should maintain consistency. They shouldn't randomly start caring about only punishing the people who deserve it....

this part made me lol b/c it's so true

[Blake]

As costas said, there's always collateral damage for these types of situations, and the NCAA has a history of punishments that hurt the current coach more than the coach who committed the infractions. Lane Kiffin for example is paying for Pete Carroll's infractions.

And while some of them couldn't have avoided this, I have no sympathy for Jim O'Brien (their new coach) or any of the incoming freshmen. They made their own bed going to a program they knew was involved in a child molestation scandal. If I was a coach or a recruit, that alone would scare me off.

Strangely enough, Rivals has them currently ranked at #15......one spot ahead of Oklahoma.

7 of the 14 commits are 4 star.

[Yonivore]

You cut off their football revenue and you're punishing the right people.
I have no doubt the web of people who knew who and what Sandusky is pervades the ranks of Penn State and Penn State Alumni.

The more I type, the angrier I get.

Fuck'em. Fuck'em all. Why would you even want to play at Penn State now?

[lakerhaterade]

I wonder if this whole ordeal is brought up when coaches recruit players. It's quite the embarrassment. Like someone already mentioned, I don't know how football will be played this upcoming season, but it certainly shouldn't.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Why would you even want to play at Penn State now?

I'm guessing there's thousands of high schoolers in Pennsylvania that have dreamed their whole lives of playing football at Penn St. It's a religion to these folks.

[ChumpDumper]

It should be noted that that SMU proposed its self-sanctions on February 6 and the NCAA dealt the death penalty on February 25.

Too much collateral damage doing it in July/August when the season starts September 1. I can see big fines and exclusion from postseason play for this season, then any cancellations to follow that. I'd be surprised if many games were cancelled this season.

[Yonivore]

I'm guessing there's thousands of high schoolers in Pennsylvania that have dreamed their whole lives of playing football at Penn St. It's a religion to these folks.
Well, then, that's a problem...it's also how people like Sandusky are able to continue victimizing; people put their association with the university over the well-being of those being affected by it.

[Yonivore]

I honestly think the best thing Penn State could do would be to commit football suicide, bolster the rest of their athletics program, and negotiate a resumption of the football program with the NCAA.

Then, they would have something to hold out to recruits that have dreamed of playing for Penn State their whole lives. Those that had that dream over the next 1-3 years (however long the death penalty lasts) would know, it's not going to happen and to make other plans. Every High School Freshman could know, Penn State will be back when they graduate high school.

As it stands now, high school players are being forced to make decisions when they don't know the eventual outcome.

[Blake]

The Death Penalty for Penn State Football (http://www.anchorrising.com/barnacles/014572.html)

....This is the situation that the death penalty was created for....


not so much, imo.

[MarioSpeedwagon]

A few years ago Sandusky tried to worm his way into a consulting position for the (consistently awful) football program at a small PA college where I live. Fortunately, they knew enough about him to tell him to stay the hell away.

interdasting

[Clipper Nation]

that's the problem with the death penalty, it punishes the wrong people.

By that logic, the NCAA can't punish any program for anything....

[clambake]

i guess this means there's a certain religion that should receive the death penalty.

[cantthinkofanything]

I honestly think the best thing Penn State could do would be to commit football suicide, bolster the rest of their athletics program, and negotiate a resumption of the football program with the NCAA.

Then, they would have something to hold out to recruits that have dreamed of playing for Penn State their whole lives. Those that had that dream over the next 1-3 years (however long the death penalty lasts) would know, it's not going to happen and to make other plans. Every High School Freshman could know, Penn State will be back when they graduate high school.

As it stands now, high school players are being forced to make decisions when they don't know the eventual outcome.

I don't disagree with what the penalty should be. I'm fine with a total shutdown of the football program for a few years. But to think that they are going have a bunch of kids dreaming to play for them is a pipe dream at this point. It would be hard enough to start convincing any high talent prospects to help start the program over without the pedo situation. But my guess is that there aren't many kids out there who are still dreaming to play football at Penn State. For the foreseeable future, the first thing anyone is going to think when they see a Penn State uniform, jersey, sweatshirt, etc., is Sandusky. My guess is that this is has already irreparably damaged their future recruitment success in any sport.

[Oh, Gee!!]

By that logic, the NCAA can't punish any program for anything....

lifetime bans on coaches who are involved, lifetime bans on A.D.'s who covered-up illegal/immoral acts, vacating of awards/individual titles of students who are involved, vacating of titles, etc.

[Yonivore]

lifetime bans on coaches who are involved, lifetime bans on A.D.'s who covered-up illegal/immoral acts, vacating of awards/individual titles of students who are involved, vacating of titles, etc.
How do you punish the institution (alumni included) that knew this guy was scum and, because of the prestige of Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program, ignored the rumors and hid the truth.

The knowledge of this guy's actions pervade the entire culture.

[Blake]

I don't disagree with what the penalty should be. I'm fine with a total shutdown of the football program for a few years. But to think that they are going have a bunch of kids dreaming to play for them is a pipe dream at this point. It would be hard enough to start convincing any high talent prospects to help start the program over without the pedo situation. But my guess is that there aren't many kids out there who are still dreaming to play football at Penn State. For the foreseeable future, the first thing anyone is going to think when they see a Penn State uniform, jersey, sweatshirt, etc., is Sandusky. My guess is that this is has already irreparably damaged their future recruitment success in any sport.

Rivals.com/Football recruiting/Penn St.

[cantthinkofanything]

Rivals.com/Football recruiting/Penn St.

maybe those recruits are gay and don't know that Sandusky is gone.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The state of denial Paterno's family is in is hilarious :lol

":cryWe demand to re-examine all of the evidence!:cry"

[Clipper Nation]

maybe those recruits are gay and don't know that Sandusky is gone.

If the recruits weren't legal adults, that lame "joke" might ALMOST make sense, B...

[Blake]

maybe those recruits are gay and don't know that Sandusky is gone.

Right because gay teens obviously like rape.

And old pickles.

[cantthinkofanything]

Right because gay teens obviously like rape.

And old pickles.

:wow

[Yonivore]

The state of denial Paterno's family is in is hilarious :lol
There's nothing funny about any of it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

There's nothing funny about any of it.
There's nothing funny about Paterno and what he did, but I find it pretty hilarious how JoePa's family and biggest fans refuse to admit Paterno did anything wrong.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

double post

[Wild Cobra Kai]

The current players and most of the current coaches and staff will end up paying for it even though they had zero to do with the abuse and cover-up. collateral damage so to speak.

The players can be released immediately to play in other programs. The younger staff will probably get jobs. The older staff may be tainted, but I hardly think a few coaches are a reason to keep a program from deservedly crashing.

[baseline bum]

You cut off their football revenue and you're punishing the right people.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[leemajors]

Doesn't football fund a lot of academia as well?

[ducks]

if pen state goes broke so be it

[MannyIsGod]

And, Hitler made the trains run on time.

The point being, one fuck up can ruin a legacy.

If Paterno knew Sandusky was a pedophile and let it go, he deserves to be erased from the record books, have his name stripped from all buildings, his statues pulled down, and the name "Nobody" put in its place.

Wow. I agree with Yoni.

[MannyIsGod]

Doesn't football fund a lot of academia as well?

I can't imagine this is the case at the collegiate level. Funding for academic purposes is brought in by academics. I'm not 100% on this but I'm about 90.

[DMC]

A Lifetime Original "Showers for Algernon: The Jerry Sandusky Story".

[ChumpDumper]

I can't imagine this is the case at the collegiate level. Funding for academic purposes is brought in by academics. I'm not 100% on this but I'm about 90.Penn state is one of those few schools where football proceeds could end up funding academics -- and who's to say the influence of football on alumni donations, etc.

[CosmicCowboy]

A Lifetime Original "Showers for Algernon: The Jerry Sandusky Story".

EEEEEEEEUCK!

I'll have to go waste a couple of hours here as my wife watches it or just plan ahead and spend the night at the ranch...

[CosmicCowboy]

I can't imagine this is the case at the collegiate level. Funding for academic purposes is brought in by academics. I'm not 100% on this but I'm about 90.

For top tier NCAA Division 1 schools sports like football are a huge cash cow. Millions a year.

[MannyIsGod]

Penn state is one of those few schools where football proceeds could end up funding academics -- and who's to say the influence of football on alumni donations, etc.


For top tier NCAA Division 1 schools sports like football are a huge cash cow. Millions a year.

I have no doubt the big football programs in the nation like Penn State bring in a lot of money but I always figured it was funneled within the Athletics department. Those programs bring in lot of money but they also have amazing facilities (from which much of the rest of the university does benefit) and expenses run high.

I can't say for sure, but I would be very surprised to see money from football going to academics.

[MannyIsGod]

Although google is my friend....

Successful football programs inject millions into their universities’ academic programs. Athletic departments not only cover the costs of student-athlete scholarships, but they often contribute to non-athletic scholarship funds. Alabama’s athletic department, for instance, contributed $3.5 million to the school’s non-athletic scholarship fund last year as part of a $6.5 million contribution package for university programming. Even far less profitable programs like Iowa and Oregon State have been central to academic initiatives. Iowa Athletics contributed $9 million to a new Campus Recreation and Wellness Center, and Oregon State’s athletic department spent $7 million to open the school’s Academic Success Center. Both are available to all university students.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/05/07/would-banning-college-football-actually-help-academics/

Thats definitely not chump change.

[Blake]

Democratic strategist James Carville argued that it would be "a really dumb idea" to suspend the Penn State football program, despite an independent investigation finding that top university officials, including former head coach Joe Paterno, worked to conceal child sex abuse allegations against former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

"Look, this is awful, gut-wrenching. And people that I really respect are talking about the 'death penalty' for Penn State football," Carville said on the "This Week" roundtable, referring to calls for the NCAA to effectively shut down the Penn State football program for several years as punishment. "That is a really dumb idea. Lives have been ruined, so the answer to it, let's go out and ruin more lives?"

"Let's take a kid who's a football player who was in the second grade when this happened and let's suspend the program. Who knows what he's going to do with his education?" Carville added. "Let's take every contract that's been signed … everybody that has a motel in Happy Valley, let's ruin their lives as a retaliation."

Carville argued instead that the Penn State football program should be allowed to continue so it can generate money, which can then be used to compensate the victims of Sandusky's child abuse.

"Let Penn State football play, let them make money, bring the trial lawyers in, pluck that chicken clean," Carville said..........

More

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/james-carville-suspending-penn-state-football-is-a-really-dumb-idea/

[coyotes_geek]

I agree with Carville. Considering the direct consequences the truly responsible parties are going to feel in the form of criminal and/or civil judgements against them, not to mention the permament black cloud that will hang over them for the rest of their lives, I really don't see Spanier, Curley or Schultz giving much of a shit whether or not Penn State doesn't get to play football for a couple of years. All the death penalty does is punish people who didn't have anything to do with it.