Abdul-jabbar.

[apalisoc_9]

Why do i see people not having him top 3 of all time? And i see alot of people doing this..

Is it because his name is Abdul-jabar?

[lefty]

Because he is not top 3

[Lincoln]

Great thread

[jeebus]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

[InTheCrust]

^
wtf??
:lol:rollin:lol

[lakerhaterade]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

:lmao

[Venti Quattro]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[ElNono]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[pass1st]

People usually interchange 3 with Kareem and Bird. Magic at #2 is set in stone ala game 6 1980 finals.

[pass1st]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

:lol

[Latarian Milton]

the guy who led the shitty bucks to NBA championship was NOT named Jabbar imho, the jabbar we know was just the #2nd banana on magic's team

[JJ Hickson]

Why do i see people not having him top 3 of all time? And i see alot of people doing this..

Is it because his name is Abdul-jabar?


I agree Kareem is THAT nigga. Also don't forget that he's the undisputed GOAT college player.

[namlook]

Because he is not top 3

He's top 3. Six league MVPs and six championships and leading scorer in NBA history. 19x all star who made fifteen 1st or 2nd all-NBA teams and 11 all defensive teams. Add three NCAA championships and that he's the greatest college player of all time, and you have a college/pro resume that no one can touch.


People usually interchange 3 with Kareem and Bird.

Kareem's career vs Bird's career is not even close. Kareem won twice as many championships, has twice as many MVPs, was an all star 7 more seasons, scored a lot more points and was a much better defensive player.

[mudyez]

MJ is mos def top3...

...then you have the "championship guys" that put Russell top3 (count me to that group)

...you also have the "insane stat guys" that put Wilt there (don't count me to that group)

...there is also that "Magic and Bird saved basketball and belong there guys"

...there are the "I'm smarter than you guys" which tend to put Oscar or Hakeem there

...and the "I'm not old enough but todays players are more athletic anyway guys" that tend to go with the LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs or Vince Carters (ok, not VC)

...leaving the "all time stats do matter most" for KAJ, as he was really good in maybe all of these groups...but only killed it in this category

For me personally it is MJ/Russel tied for 1st and KAJ 3rd.

[mavs>spurs]

glorified ben wallace as the 2nd best player of all time? lol ok

[scanry]

glorified ben wallace as the 2nd best player of all time? lol ok

You've got to be kidding me. Kareem is more like a glorified Hakeem & Duncan put together.

The blind Laker homers may put Magic (lets not even bring Kobe in this) over KAJ, but IMO Jabbar is by far the greatest Laker of all time.

[LkrFan]

Because he is not top 3

:lmao

I'd argue that he is the true GOAT. Wanna compare his accolades (and when he achieved them) to MJ?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

3rd best center all time maybe

[mudyez]

3rd best center all time maybe

Don't forget that Timmy is a PF...So you may put KAJ 2nd among C's. ;)

[mavs>spurs]

You've got to be kidding me. Kareem is more like a glorified Hakeem & Duncan put together.

The blind Laker homers may put Magic (lets not even bring Kobe in this) over KAJ, but IMO Jabbar is by far the greatest Laker of all time.

I was talking about Russell

[LkrFan]

MJ is mos def top3...

...then you have the "championship guys" that put Russell top3 (count me to that group)

...you also have the "insane stat guys" that put Wilt there (don't count me to that group)

...there is also that "Magic and Bird saved basketball and belong there guys"

...there are the "I'm smarter than you guys" which tend to put Oscar or Hakeem there

...and the "I'm not old enough but todays players are more athletic anyway guys" that tend to go with the LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs or Vince Carters (ok, not VC)

...leaving the "all time stats do matter most" for KAJ, as he was really good in maybe all of these groups...but only killed it in this category

For me personally it is MJ/Russel tied for 1st and KAJ 3rd.
KAJ would have busted Russell's ass like he did Wilt if they played during the same era. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[Jodelo]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78j2t4Dbz1qdlh1io1_400.gif

WTF??? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[pass1st]

Kareem getting disrespected over here, tbh

He'd skyhook over Duncan all day :lol

[pass1st]

You've got to be kidding me. Kareem is more like a glorified Hakeem & Duncan put together.

The blind Laker homers may put Magic (lets not even bring Kobe in this) over KAJ, but IMO Jabbar is by far the greatest Laker of all time.

Only blind people are the ones who forget Magic single handidly shit on the 76ers in his rookie season in game 6 without Kareem. Let's not forget Kareem was 28 when he started with LA and didn't win until he was 32 - year Magic joined.

[mudyez]

can we all agree on:

1. MJ
2-4. Bill+KAJ+Wilt in some order
5+6. Bird+Magic in some order
7-10. Hakeem+Kobe+Shaq+Timmy in some order

???
(at least for now)

I know I know: West/Oscar and so on can be in the conversation for 7-10 too, but I think its a pretty fair list, isn't it?

[Wild Cobra Kai]

KAJ slips for the same reason that a vintage RB like Dallas' Duane Thomas is undervalued: he was an asshole and nobody really liked him.

My KAJ moment was when Horry passed him for playoff games played. KAJ's response wasn't "congratulations" or "well done, former Laker brother". His response was "they play more playoff games per year now".

What a jerk. :lol

[mudyez]

KAJ slips for the same reason that a vintage RB like Dallas' Duane Thomas is undervalued: he was an asshole and nobody really liked him.

My KAJ moment was when Horry passed him for playoff games played. KAJ's response wasn't "congratulations" or "well done, former Laker brother". His response was "they play more playoff games per year now".

What a jerk. :lol

same with Oscar...and I could see a current player ending this way too :rolleyes

...and it is not Timmy

[pass1st]

Wilt & Bill :lol

[Capt Bringdown]

LOL, kidz never saw Kareem play. Top 3? Maybe the best ever. He's a f'n demon.

[resistanze]

lol, which 3 players would rank above Kareem?

[mudyez]

lol, which 3 players would rank above Kareem?

You can make a case for MJ, Bill, Wilt, Magic and Bird. I think thats it.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Wilt Chamberlain

[pass1st]

Wilt & Bill were in an era where bigs were just tall, slightly athletic. Wilt was as athletic as Kareem, but nowhere near the skill. Not in top 10 discussion. Kareem would have shit on the Celtics back then on his own.

[TE]

Agree with M>S, I think Russell is terribly overrated.


Kareem is top 3-4, IMO.

[TE]

You can make a case for MJ, Bill, Wilt, Magic and Bird. I think thats it.

Wow, #2 all time for Russell?

:lol

[resistanze]

You can make a case for MJ, Bill, Wilt, Magic and Bird. I think thats it.

Bird? I can't see any fathomable argument for him, tbh.

Magic? Possibly.

Wilt? Hell No.

Russell? As much Tommy Heinsohn does.

MJ? Yes.

[lefty]

Bird? I can't see any fathomable argument for him, tbh.

Magic? Possibly.

Wilt? Hell No.

Russell? As much Tommy Heinsohn does.

MJ? Yes.
BIRD is GOAT

GTFO

[gaKNOW!blee]

Only blind people are the ones who forget Magic single handidly shit on the 76ers in his rookie season in game 6 without Kareem. Let's not forget Kareem was 28 when he started with LA and didn't win until he was 32 - year Magic joined.

Yeah I'm sure everyone just forgets one of the most memorable performances/shots in NBA history.

Good take.

[resistanze]

BIRD is GOAT

GTFO

lol.

[lefty]

Top 3

MJ
Bird
Magic

[Venti Quattro]

Y u no support your fellow Muslim brethren, lefty?

[lefty]

Y u no support your fellow Muslim brethren, lefty?
The other muslim brother Olajuwon shits on Kareem

[pass1st]

Yeah I'm sure everyone just forgets one of the most memorable performances/shots in NBA history.

Good take.

You must be new to basketball discussion if you think otherwise :lol

[scanry]

I would only rank MJ over Kareem.

MJ
KAJ
Magic/Russell
Russell/Magic

That would be my top four of all time.

[gaKNOW!blee]

You must be new to basketball discussion if you think otherwise :lol

im sure people just don't think one game determines your status on the GOAT list, thats all.

keep up the solid work though.

[druggas]

Only blind people are the ones who forget Magic single handidly shit on the 76ers in his rookie season in game 6 without Kareem. Let's not forget Kareem was 28 when he started with LA and didn't win until he was 32 - year Magic joined.
Maybe you forgot that the Lakers traded their whole team to get KAJ.

Also, let's not forget that Kareem won game 5 on a badly sprained ankle.

[pass1st]

im sure people just don't think one game determines your status on the GOAT list, thats all.

keep up the solid work though.

You truly don't understand the precedent of the game. Before Magic, the Lakers were centered around a PRIME Kareem playing me-ball. What Magic showed was that he didn't compliment Kareem's game, he made Kareem play better - he made him play team ball. He became the leader of the team from the drastic & sudden change his running the helm did to the Lakers.

This much is known, his exceptional game illustrated this perfectly because he lead the team to victory on the road with out Kareem whom was seen as the key to Lakers victory.

Keep shooting blanks, though. Might hit something :lol

[pass1st]

Maybe you forgot that the Lakers traded their whole team to get KAJ.

Also, let's not forget that Kareem won game 5 on a badly sprained ankle.

4 prime years, Magic enters the equation. Can't take away from Kareem, but he didn't have the same impact + Magic made him play better.

[namlook]

Top 3

MJ
Bird
Magic

The 80's belonged to Magic and the Lakers. Bird and the Celtics were a secondary thought.

[namlook]

4 prime years, Magic enters the equation. Can't take away from Kareem, but he didn't have the same impact + Magic made him play better.

Kareem helped Magic's game too. Don't forget Magic never won without Kareem but Kareem won without Magic.

[pass1st]

Kareem helped Magic's game too. Don't forget Magic never won without Kareem but Kareem won without Magic.

True, but Kareem won with Oscar who is a legend in his own rights and in an era which was less competitive than the 80s.

[mercos]

When you look at accomplishments from both college and the NBA, Kareem should be considered the best of all time. He has the best combination of stats and titles. As someone stated earlier, history has not remembered him fondly because he was an asshole. Jordan was the most marketable star of all time, and that is really why he is considered the greatest. On top of all of the career achievements, Kareem was a center, which is a MUCH more important position in basketball than shooting guard. It is a big man's game, and Kareem was arguably the best big man and player of all time.

[lefty]

The 80's belonged to Magic and the Lakers. Bird and the Celtics were a secondary thought.
Bird was better IMO, but not by a long shot

Bird played in a tougher conference, and the Celtic's bench was weak

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don't forget that Timmy is a PF...So you may put KAJ 2nd among C's. ;)

1) Chamberlain
2) Russell
3) Jabar

[pass1st]

1) Chamberlain
2) Russell
3) Jabar

:lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

I'm hardly the only one that thinks that. Is there even a major publication that puts Jabbar in the top 5 of the best all time lists?

You're a Lakers fan so for all of your posturing, it's meaningless.

[pass1st]

I'm hardly the only one that thinks that. Is there even a major publication that puts Jabbar in the top 5 of the best all time lists?

You're a Lakers fan so for all of your posturing, it's meaningless.

A major publication? You're probably one of those people who think bleacher report articles are made by legit sports writers.

Why were wilts playoff numbers lower than season numbers, while Kareem's were relatively the same if not better?

Rank these eras, 60s, 70s, 80s.

:lolUsing Lakerfan smack talk
:lolWilt being GOAT
:lolThinking somebody that shrinks during playoffs is better than somebody who rises during them

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A major publication? You're probably one of those people who think bleacher report articles are made by legit sports writers.

Why were wilts playoff numbers lower than season numbers, while Kareem's were relatively the same if not better?

Rank these eras, 60s, 70s, 80s.

:lolUsing Lakerfan smack talk
:lolWilt being GOAT
:lolThinking somebody that shrinks during playoffs is better than somebody who rises during them

No, but I do think that SLAM is and they have Jabbar at 7. They also have Wilt at 1.

And it's not saying that Lakers fans are in some way inferior in general but rather that you have clear bias and as such cannot be considered an objective source.

And :lol melting in the playoffs. I am guessing that you are basing that off the Reed game. Then there is his performance from 1960 to 1965 where he averaged 34 and 25. Not to mention being the single most dominant player of any era. 100 point, 50 rebounds. Over 48 mins per game in 1962. Led the league in assists because he wanted to.

Jabbar ran into the stands after starting some shit with one of Wilt's teammates when Chamberlain came after him.

Its not his fault that those Warrior teams sucked but for him. It's not his fault that those Warrior teams ran into the greatest dynasty of all time led by #2.

Posture some more, it's cute.

[pass1st]

No, but I do think that SLAM is and they have Jabbar at 7. They also have Wilt at 1.

And it's not saying that Lakers fans are in some way inferior in general but rather that you have clear bias and as such cannot be considered an objective source.

And :lol melting in the playoffs. I am guessing that you are basing that off the Reed game. Then there is his performance from 1960 to 1965 where he averaged 34 and 25. Not to mention being the single most dominant player of any era. 100 point, 50 rebounds. Over 48 mins per game in 1962. Led the league in assists because he wanted to.

Jabbar ran into the stands after starting some shit with one of Wilt's teammates when Chamberlain came after him.

Its not his fault that those Warrior teams sucked but for him. It's not his fault that those Warrior teams ran into the greatest dynasty of all time led by #2.

Posture some more, it's cute.

Sl:lolm Magazine, I'm not sure if you're being serious here.

Wilt was a Laker too:lmao

Compare his season to playoff stats, I'm not basing this off any specific game. Although if I was, it would be in 72 where Kareem outplayed Wilt in every aspect of the game except rebounding. The only reason Lakers won was because Oscar was hurt and played like shit.

It's easily Wilt's fault for being a stat hog, not a winner. Nothing you said really supports your argument that Wilt was better than Kareem, and other spurfans here don't have Wilt in their top 10 so your Lakerfan bias argument is invalid.

Say posture some more :lmao

[ginobili's bald spot]

The other muslim brother Olajuwon shits on Kareem


:lmao I doubt even Hakeem himself thinks some bullshit like this.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

No, but I do think that SLAM is and they have Jabbar at 7. They also have Wilt at 1.
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

You're making fun of Lakerfan then citing the same retarded magazine all the dumb Lakers fans on this site love to use.

:lmao SLAM magazine
:lmao Wilt #1

[lefty]

:lmao I doubt even Hakeem himself thinks some bullshit like this.

Lol Hakeem destroyed Jabbar everytime he faced him

Don't be such a Laker fan

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sl:lolm Magazine, I'm not sure if you're being serious here.

Wilt was a Laker too:lmao

Compare his season to playoff stats, I'm not basing this off any specific game. Although if I was, it would be in 72 where Kareem outplayed Wilt in every aspect of the game except rebounding. The only reason Lakers won was because Oscar was hurt and played like shit.

It's easily Wilt's fault for being a stat hog, not a winner. Nothing you said really supports your argument that Wilt was better than Kareem, and other spurfans here don't have Wilt in their top 10 so your Lakerfan bias argument is invalid.

Say posture some more :lmao

Lol citing message board posters after criticizing me for the bleacher report. For all your ridicule, SLAM is a major publication. I am still waiting for any single publication that has Jabbar ahead of Chamberlain.

Jabbar didn't win a championship from 1972 to 1980. In 1972 Wilt played with Baylor, Goodrich and West. Excuses are like assholes and the Bucks lost.

When Chamberlain played with Walker and Greer in 1967 they were able to finally beat the Celtics and win a championship. Before that they ran into the best basketball dynasty all time with Russel, Cousy, Havlicek, Jones et al every year in the ECF. Perhaps you have heard of them?

You act like he didn't carry those Warrior teams there every year.

Jabbar couldn't win shit without the Big O or Magic so I don't get what your point is. It's a team game but on an individual basis Chamberlain was easily the more dominant player. It plays out in win shares as well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

You're making fun of Lakerfan then citing the same retarded magazine all the dumb Lakers fans on this site love to use.

:lmao SLAM magazine
:lmao Wilt #1

I am not making fun of Lakers fans. Its a comment on objectivity. It's like someone talking about the relative performance of their kids. SLAM is a major publication I am just trying to determine an objective standard.

I am guessing that pass1st never watched Chamberlain play and watched a whole bunch of Jabbar.

Am I wrong?

[mavs>spurs]

crofl crofl SLAM

shit was cool when we were like 13, OP must have hung the wilt cutout poster from that issue on his wall :rollin

[lefty]

crofl crofl SLAM

shit was cool when we were like 13, OP must have hung the wilt cutout poster from that issue on his wall :rollin
:lmao

[The Gemini Method]

Hey fuck you...I don't even consider SLAM when I enter a discussion. That's like reading one of them hip-hop magazines to get the scoop on what's good...

I don't know why Kareem gets overlooked--I'm guessing it is a combination of him being stand-offish and the fact that he played on the same team as the affable Magic. But if you were to combine his achievements as Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, then it would be hard to find another player who, over the duration of nearly 30 years, was as influential and dominant than KAJ. I mean, can anyone from MJ to Bird to Magic say they got to be in a movie and trained by Bruce Lee? That, in my opinion, is worth some brownie points as well.

Could it be he became a Muslim that turns people off? I know there is a segment of the boxing world that soured on Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali when he went from the cross to the crescent.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I said all the dumb Lakers fans (I've seen namlook and lkrfan cite slam several times each).

[The Gemini Method]

I said all the dumb Lakers fans (I've seen namlook and lkrfan cite slam several times each).

I know I was only playing on the statement...

I would be amiss if I didn't say that Bynum, for all his petulance, did learn some things from the Captain. Maybe he also picked up the prickly disposition from KAJ as well...

[mavs>spurs]

:lol yeah it's true, laker fans love to cite SLAM as if it's a legitimate source of good basketball knowledge and not some kiddie hip hop magazine that attracts youngers with cutout posters

[ginobili's bald spot]

Lol Hakeem destroyed Jabbar everytime he faced him

Don't be such a Laker fan


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao



Even if that was true, Kareem is like 16 years older than him you dumb ass. Hakeem probably 6 years old when Kareem started playing in the NBA. Using your logic Illgauskas > Hakeem because he shit all over him every time he faced him.

[pass1st]

Lol citing message board posters after criticizing me for the bleacher report. For all your ridicule, SLAM is a major publication. I am still waiting for any single publication that has Jabbar ahead of Chamberlain.

Jabbar didn't win a championship from 1972 to 1980. In 1972 Wilt played with Baylor, Goodrich and West. Excuses are like assholes and the Bucks lost.

When Chamberlain played with Walker and Greer in 1967 they were able to finally beat the Celtics and win a championship. Before that they ran into the best basketball dynasty all time with Russel, Cousy, Havlicek, Jones et al every year in the ECF. Perhaps you have heard of them?

You act like he didn't carry those Warrior teams there every year.

Jabbar couldn't win shit without the Big O or Magic so I don't get what your point is. It's a team game but on an individual basis Chamberlain was easily the more dominant player. It plays out in win shares as well.

:lolI'm not citing them, it's simply proof that your argument was invalid. It's relevant because they aren't Lakerfans, they are rivalfans, and still don't put Wilt or Russel up there. You're reaching

Jabbar won 6, if you want to say he was carried to 5 of them get prepared to be laughed at. Wilt won 1 against a hurt team, it's not an excuse because win or lose it doesn't matter in this particular case. Wilt was utterly outplayed by Kareem, a recovering Kareem at that. Lakers won because they had more than just Wilt.

Sure he carried the Warriors, during the regular season. His stats, like I said, dipped in the playoffs.

NOBODY wins shit alone, Kareem needed Magic/Robertson like Wilt needed West/his whole 76er team. Pull up the boxscores for the series against the Celtics, show me how many times Wilt was the leading scorer :lmao

Why didn't you say posture again :depressed

[ginobili's bald spot]

1_nNdI1K6Q0&feature=related

[mavs>spurs]

Where's that one fag who would always call him "Jaber" and talk about more outlandish myths than the Wilt ones? I'm talking "Jaber was the best athlete of all time, he was once the first black man to travel to another galaxy and become mvp of a league full of athletically engineered super aliens" etc :lol

I can't remember which poster that was, was it Galileo?

[lefty]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao



Even if that was true, Kareem is like 16 years older than him you dumb ass. Hakeem probably 6 years old when Kareem started playing in the NBA. Using your logic Illgauskas > Hakeem because he shit all over him every time he faced him.

Harlem won a championship as the only HOF of his team

Kareem ?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lolI'm not citing them, it's simply proof that your argument was invalid. It's relevant because they aren't Lakerfans, they are rivalfans, and still don't put Wilt or Russel up there. You're reaching

Jabbar won 6, if you want to say he was carried to 5 of them get prepared to be laughed at. Wilt won 1 against a hurt team, it's not an excuse because win or lose it doesn't matter in this particular case. Wilt was utterly outplayed by Kareem, a recovering Kareem at that. Lakers won because they had more than just Wilt.

Sure he carried the Warriors, during the regular season. His stats, like I said, dipped in the playoffs.

NOBODY wins shit alone, Kareem needed Magic/Robertson like Wilt needed West/his whole 76er team. Pull up the boxscores for the series against the Celtics, show me how many times Wilt was the leading scorer :lmao

Why didn't you say posture again :depressed

I guess you didn't like the pposturing comment. I was just talking about your lol and blanket dismissals. You also are just repeating yourself. Alcindor lost the head to head for all of your shitty excuses and then proceeded to not won anything for 9 years. That wsn't even the finals anyway.

I never said that Alcindor was carried. I said he was not ever able to carry a team. Big difference. That was exemplified by the droughtfor the prime of his career, pretty much a decade. He did not have the 60s celtics to deal with. Chamberlain was at least able to climb that mountain without a member of the 10 best all time as a side kick.

Then of course statistically it's not even close. It took jabbar 8 extra years to match wilt.

And of course Jabar was a works class douche known for cheap shots and running to the stands when faced with someone his own size. He broke his hand on a cheap shot.

On a final note, taking about other fans has nothing to do with your objectivity. It's the band wagon fallacy anyway. on the topic of objectivity did you ever find a major publication that had jabbar over chamberlain?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Where's that one fag who would always call him "Jaber" and talk about more outlandish myths than the Wilt ones? I'm talking "Jaber was the best athlete of all time, he was once the first black man to travel to another galaxy and become mvp of a league full of athletically engineered super aliens" etc :lol

I can't remember which poster that was, was it Galileo?
That most certainly was Galileo aka Rolf Lindgren :lol

[ginobili's bald spot]

Harlem won a championship as the only HOF of his team

Kareem ?


Harlem?

I'll give you credit, you abandoned that stupid ass argument quick.:lol Unfortunately despite moving the goal posts your point is still retarded. Having good teammates makes someone a worse player? Using your logic, Hakeem is better than Jordan since he never won without a hall of famer. Shit, according to you Chauncy Billups is the GOAT since he won on a team with no HOF players. These arguments are weak as fuck Lefty.

[Kidd K]

People usually interchange 3 with Kareem and Bird. Magic at #2 is set in stone ala game 6 1980 finals.

lmfao.

Magic is not #3, much less #2.

And he certainly didn't get his GOAT status set in stone that early in his career. :bang

And nobody who has even the smallest amount of basketball intelligence ranks Bird that high.

Bird should not be ranked above: MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Wilt. or Shaq. Imo, he's also ranked below Duncan.

Bird is at most #7 on the GOAT list. And he's he's #8 on mine.

Interchangable at #3? LOL. Instant credibility loss.




Only blind people are the ones who forget Magic single handidly shit on the 76ers in his rookie season in game 6 without Kareem. Let's not forget Kareem was 28 when he started with LA and didn't win until he was 32 - year Magic joined.

Kareem has been to the Finals twice without Magic (winning once). Magic has just once without Kareem (losing in a backdoor sweep). Kareem also has more MVPs. Magic's great, but he was also fortunate enough to never have a bad team around him at any point in his career, unlike Kareem. You have to also factor what the greats had around them, not just how many titles they won. Magic was almost never at a disadvantage in terms of team talent vs his opponents. Have Magic's Lakers ever been worse than 3rd best team in the NBA? Seriously. At any point he was on that team besides his "comeback from AIDS retirement". Meanwhile, Kareem's been on several stinkers. Specifically because he wasn't drafted onto a golden team that was set to be good for a decade rather than just a couple years.

Kareem > Magic. Was more accomplished, has more records, was a more dominant force on BOTH ends rather than just one.

[namlook]

No, but I do think that SLAM is and they have Jabbar at 7. They also have Wilt at 1.


Wilt had stretches of his career where he was more dominant as an individual player, but he did not have the better career and he was not a better winner. Kareem's career achievements easily surpass Wilt. Also of interest is that Kareem was the only player that Wilt ever said he needed double team help in guarding because he couldn't stop him.

[pass1st]

I guess you didn't like the pposturing comment. I was just talking about your lol and blanket dismissals. You also are just repeating yourself. Alcindor lost the head to head for all of your shitty excuses and then proceeded to not won anything for 9 years. That wsn't even the finals anyway.

I never said that Alcindor was carried. I said he was not ever able to carry a team. Big difference. That was exemplified by the droughtfor the prime of his career, pretty much a decade. He did not have the 60s celtics to deal with. Chamberlain was at least able to climb that mountain without a member of the 10 best all time as a side kick.

Then of course statistically it's not even close. It took jabbar 8 extra years to match wilt.

And of course Jabar was a works class douche known for cheap shots and running to the stands when faced with someone his own size. He broke his hand on a cheap shot.

On a final note, taking about other fans has nothing to do with your objectivity. It's the band wagon fallacy anyway. on the topic of objectivity did you ever find a major publication that had jabbar over chamberlain?

I didn't mind it, just sounded funny tbh. Kareem won head to head with Wilt in the playoffs, show me otherwise please. He outscored Wilt and kept him under 40% for much of the 72 series (shooting around 45% himself, IIRC). He was thoroughly dominated, but it just wasn't enough to win since games are decided on more than 1 player.

If we're speaking strickly playoffs, Kareem definitely carried his Bucks if you think Wilt was anywhere close to doing that during the playoffs. If you want to talk regular season, again, a weaker decade than the 70s. Not many people would disagree, tbh.

Weaker era, Wilt was just extraordinary athletic compared to all the other bigs. The closest matchup for him was Russel and his athleticism wasn't as impressive compared to the centers that came later on. Wilt, on the other hand, would still be considered an excellent athleted by today's standards - but his playstyle wouldn't allow him to drop 50 points a game when other centers had comparable athleticism :lol

It's irrelevant what kind of person Kareem was, he shaped up after playing with Magic.

Publications are irrelevant, especially from Sl:lolm magazine. I'll entertain you, though
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters





lmfao.

Magic is not #3, much less #2.

And he certainly didn't get his GOAT status set in stone that early in his career. :bang

And nobody who has even the smallest amount of basketball intelligence ranks Bird that high.

Bird should not be ranked above: MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Wilt. or Shaq. Imo, he's also ranked below Duncan.

Bird is at most #7 on the GOAT list. And he's he's #8 on mine.

Interchangable at #3? LOL. Instant credibility loss.





Kareem has 2 titles without Magic. Magic has 1 without Kareem. Kareem also have more MVPs. Magic's great, but he was also fortunate enough to never have a bad team around him at any point in his career, unlike Kareem. You have to also factor what the greats had around them, not just how many titles they won. Magic was almost never at a disadvantage in terms of team talent vs his opponents. Have Magic's Lakers ever been worse than 3rd best team in the NBA? Seriously. At any point he was on that team besides his "comeback from AIDS retirement". Meanwhile, Kareem's been on several stinkers. Specifically because he wasn't drafted onto a golden team that was set to be good for a decade rather than just a couple years.

Kareem > Magic. Was more accomplished, has more records, was a more dominant force on BOTH ends rather than just one.

:lmao

[scanry]

lmfao.

Magic is not #3, much less #2.

And he certainly didn't get his GOAT status set in stone that early in his career. :bang

And nobody who has even the smallest amount of basketball intelligence ranks Bird that high.

Bird should not be ranked above: MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Wilt. or Shaq. Imo, he's also ranked below Duncan.

Bird is at most #7 on the GOAT list. And he's he's #8 on mine.

Interchangable at #3? LOL. Instant credibility loss.





Kareem has 2 titles without Magic. Magic has 1 without Kareem. Kareem also have more MVPs. Magic's great, but he was also fortunate enough to never have a bad team around him at any point in his career, unlike Kareem. You have to also factor what the greats had around them, not just how many titles they won. Magic was almost never at a disadvantage in terms of team talent vs his opponents. Have Magic's Lakers ever been worse than 3rd best team in the NBA? Seriously. At any point he was on that team besides his "comeback from AIDS retirement". Meanwhile, Kareem's been on several stinkers. Specifically because he wasn't drafted onto a golden team that was set to be good for a decade rather than just a couple years.

Kareem > Magic. Was more accomplished, has more records, was a more dominant force on BOTH ends rather than just one.

Kareem had only won one championship (with the Bucks in 1972) without Magic. However Magic didn't win any without Kareem.

[baseline bum]

Meanwhile, Kareem's been on several stinkers. Specifically because he wasn't drafted onto a golden team that was set to be good for a decade rather than just a couple years.

Huh? Kareem played with Bobby Dangdridge and Oscar in Milwaukee. Any Spurs fan should know how good Dandridge is, since he denied them a title. The only time Kareem was ever on a bad team was right after he forced his way out of Milwaukee, so that's his own fault.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I didn't mind it, just sounded funny tbh. Kareem won head to head with Wilt in the playoffs, show me otherwise please. He outscored Wilt and kept him under 40% for much of the 72 series (shooting around 45% himself, IIRC). He was thoroughly dominated, but it just wasn't enough to win since games are decided on more than 1 player.

If we're speaking strickly playoffs, Kareem definitely carried his Bucks if you think Wilt was anywhere close to doing that during the playoffs. If you want to talk regular season, again, a weaker decade than the 70s. Not many people would disagree, tbh.

Weaker era, Wilt was just extraordinary athletic compared to all the other bigs. The closest matchup for him was Russel and his athleticism wasn't as impressive compared to the centers that came later on. Wilt, on the other hand, would still be considered an excellent athleted by today's standards - but his playstyle wouldn't allow him to drop 50 points a game when other centers had comparable athleticism :lol

It's irrelevant what kind of person Kareem was, he shaped up after playing with Magic.

Publications are irrelevant, especially from Sl:lolm magazine. I'll entertain you, though
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters






:lmao

Scoreboard: 4-2 I believe it was. Wilt won the head to head at age 34. they weren't playing in the playground. Seeing that Jabbar was running into the stands I can only imagine what Wilt would have done to him at age 23.

And as for your era discussion, Kareem never had to deal with a team like those 60s Celtics teams. He entered the same year Russel retired. Kareem also won a single title in the 70s despite never having to contend with a dominant team like that. He made it to the WCF a single time without those two and lost to Walton. He was David Robinson.

You want to give me that horseshit about stat accumulation but during those years that's all Jabbar did because without Oscar or Magic he couldn't carry shit. He was the best player on slightly better than average teams. Even then he still took 6 more years to match Chamberlain's records.

Chamberlain on the other hand was deep in the playoffs every year and finally was able to overcome those Celtics teams. Kareem couldn't beat Walton.

And spare me that Kareem carried teams. He may have been the best player but he hardly carried the Big O much less Magic. This is exemplified by the fact that he didn't even win his conference before Oscar came on board and of course Magic's signature moment where he took the tip and won without Kareem.

[pass1st]

Scoreboard: 4-2 I believe it was. Wilt won the head to head at age 34. they weren't playing in the playground. Seeing that Jabbar was running into the stands I can only imagine what Wilt would have done to him at age 23.

And as for your era discussion, Kareem never had to deal with a team like those 60s Celtics teams. He entered the same year Russel retired. Kareem also won a single title in the 70s despite never having to contend with a dominant team like that. He made it to the WCF a single time without those two and lost to Walton. He was David Robinson.

You want to give me that horseshit about stat accumulation but during those years that's all Jabbar did because without Oscar or Magic he couldn't carry shit. He was the best player on slightly better than average teams. Even then he still took 6 more years to match Chamberlain's records.

Chamberlain on the other hand was deep in the playoffs every year and finally was able to overcome those Celtics teams. Kareem couldn't beat Walton.

And spare me that Kareem carried teams. He may have been the best player but he hardly carried the Big O much less Magic. This is exemplified by the fact that he didn't even win his conference before Oscar came on board and of course Magic's signature moment where he took the tip and won without Kareem.

By your Logic Kobe is better than Duncan because LAL won more playoff matchups, I doubt you think that way :downspin:

Real talk, Kareem completely outplayed Wilt. I never recall Wilt shooting that low % before playing against Kareem, Even Russel couldn't guard him that well.

Kareem had to deal with the late 70s & 80s Celtics, a much better team :lmao

Kareem wasn't the same kind of stat whore Wilt was, tbh. Kareem actually let Oscar do his thing if it meant they would win the game. Wilt played 100% me-ball until he joined up with west. People didn't like playing with Wilt, it's fairly well documented. He refused to play team ball

Weaker era, all he had to contend with was an overrated Celtics team. The only reason the greens won so much was because they stacked their team up with so much talent and had a big man comparable to Wilt. I know you're about to say that's contradictory, lemme finish. The talent during that era was....wait for it....not really that good! They just had more of it, but if Wilt is as great as you say he is then he should have utterly dominated the Celtics.

Oscar was pulling his own weight in his twilight years, battling injuries and all. Although it was never any doubt that Kareem was by far the biggest factor in the championship Bucks team. Oscar wasn't defender he used to be at that point, Kareem had to pretty much anchor the team's defense. He carried them, it's hard to doubt that. What's even more is that in the showtime era, old man Kareem carried the Lakers through pivitol games, even entire series'. Never through an entire stretch of the playoffs, too much talent with Magic & Worthy, but he did at an old age what Wilt could not.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

By your Logic Kobe is better than Duncan because LAL won more playoff matchups, I doubt you think that way :downspin:

Real talk, Kareem completely outplayed Wilt. I never recall Wilt shooting that low % before playing against Kareem, Even Russel couldn't guard him that well.

Kareem had to deal with the late 70s & 80s Celtics, a much better team :lmao

Kareem wasn't the same kind of stat whore Wilt was, tbh. Kareem actually let Oscar do his thing if it meant they would win the game. Wilt played 100% me-ball until he joined up with west. People didn't like playing with Wilt, it's fairly well documented. He refused to play team ball

Weaker era, all he had to contend with was an overrated Celtics team. The only reason the greens won so much was because they stacked their team up with so much talent and had a big man comparable to Wilt. I know you're about to say that's contradictory, lemme finish. The talent during that era was....wait for it....not really that good! They just had more of it, but if Wilt is as great as you say he is then he should have utterly dominated the Celtics.

Oscar was pulling his own weight in his twilight years, battling injuries and all. Although it was never any doubt that Kareem was by far the biggest factor in the championship Bucks team. Oscar wasn't defender he used to be at that point, Kareem had to pretty much anchor the team's defense. He carried them, it's hard to doubt that. What's even more is that in the showtime era, old man Kareem carried the Lakers through pivitol games, even entire series'. Never through an entire stretch of the playoffs, too much talent with Magic & Worthy, but he did at an old age what Wilt could not.

Overrated my ass. You just conveniently toss out completely bullshit arguments. Those Celtics won 8 championships in a row and 9 in 10 yeas. Most years they had to go through the teams that Wilt was carrying in the ECF and then the best the Western Conference could offer. Year after year after year.

The 80s Celtics had perhaps the all time greatest front court but their guards were decent and their bench mediocre. They won 2 and had mixed levels of success otherwise including losing to the Lakers in 1985. The 60s Celtics dominated the league for a decade. It's not even in the same stratosphere.

Don't buy the David Stern hype.

The only thing that is overrated is a brain that tries to use championship tallies to justify Kareem and then think that the greatest dynasty in basketball history is overrated.

And one thing that you neglect to consider is that when Kareem played professional basketball was watered down by the existence of the ABA. It's interesting that is not considered in your commentary on eras. When there was one league Wilt was scoring 100 point grabbing 50 rebounds averaging 50/25 and so forth. One league not two. Those Celtics won championships with one league not two.

Kareem did not win shit without The Big O or Magic. He went 9 years without and made quick exits from the playoffs --when he actually made them-- all but one year when he got swept by Walton. Maybe at some point you will address that. I doubt it since its the third time I have had to bring it up.

Let's also not forget the one that was supposedly carrying teams missed the playoffs not once but twice during that span. Tag onto that another first round exit and exactly what was he carrying in what was obviously his prime? A mediocre team? He was pivotal during that stretch obviously. Much of this is in the watered down league.

And again Wilt was 34 and Alcindor was 23. Wilt's team won. You can try and hang your hat on that but I'm not buying it. Further Alcindor averaged 36/16 at 58% that season and against Chamberlain he was held him under his season averages and to an abysmal 43% from the field.

For all of your assertion of Robinson not being the defender he once was, he locked down West for much of that series. Kareem still couldn't carry them to victory.

Now i guess you could try and hang you hat on Jabbar holding up until he was 41 but I would counter that it took those extra 5 years for him to catch Chamberlain's records.

On a final note I don't put Duncan in front of Kobe. Perhaps if Duncan hadn't tore his knee up in 2006 then it might be different but it is what it is. Same number of MVPs but Bryant has the scoring titles and championships. Overall he has had a better body of work. I recognize that.

[namlook]

Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170340

Regular season – 1969-70

1. Date: Fri 10/24/69
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 9-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 23 pts, 20 rebs, 2 as, 2 blocks, 9-21 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1970-71

2. Date: Fri 11/20/70
- Chamberlain 28 pts, 23 rebs, 3 as, 10 blocks, 7-20 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 13 rebs, 0 as, 2 blocks, 13-32 FG/FGA W

3. Date: Mon 12/21/70
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 2 blocks, 11-23 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 0 as, 4 blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA W

4. Date: Fri 02/05/71
- Chamberlain 14 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 6 blocks, 7-10 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 27 pts, 10 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA L

5. Date: Thu 02/11/71
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 11 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 21 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 13-30 FG/FGA – 2 blocks against Wilt W

6. Date: Wed 03/03/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 13 rebs, 5 as, 8 blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 15 pts, 6 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-21 FG/FGA W

Post season – 1970-71 – WCF playoffs

7. Date: Fri 04/09/71
- Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA – 3 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W

8. Date: Sun 04/11/71
- Chamberlain 26 pts, 22 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA - Wilt blocked numerious shots L
-Abdul-Jabbar 22 pts, 10 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W

9. Date: Wed 04/14/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 24 rebs, 3 as, 3 blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 19 rebs, 6 as, 0 blocks, 8-16 FG/FGA L

10.Date: Fri 04/16/71
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 16 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-14 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 14-20 FG/FGA W

11.Date: Fri 04/16/71
- Chamberlain 23 pts, 12 rebs, 4 as, 6 blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA – 5 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 15 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 7-23 FG/FGA W

Regular season – 1971-72

12.Date: Sat 11/21/71
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 4-9 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA L

13.Date: Sun 01/09/72
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 12 rebs, 2 as, 6 blocks, 7-11 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 9 blocks, 18-34 FG/FGA W

14.Date: Fri 02/04/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 8-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 18 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 16-33 FG/FGA L

15.Date: Wed 03/01/72
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 17 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 12 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

16.Date: Fri 03/17/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 50 pts, 8 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 22-39 FG/FGA L

Post season – 1971-72 – WCF playoffs

17.Date: Sun 04/09/72
- Chamberlain 10 pts, 24 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 3-12 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-26 FG/FGA W

18.Date: Wed 04/12/72
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 17 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 7 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 18-31 FG/FGA L

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L

20.Date: Sun 04/16/72
- Chamberlain 5 pts, 11 rebs, 4 as, 3 blocks, 2-7 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 18 rebs, 3 as, 7 blocks, 14-33 FG/FGA W

21.Date: Tue 04/18/72
- Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - 4 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

22.Date: Sat 04/22/72
- Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, 9 blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1972-73

23.Date: Tue 11/14/72
- Chamberlain 16 pts, 15 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 6 as, 7 blocks, 17-32 FG/FGA L

24.Date: Tue 12/05/72
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 15 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 4-4 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 11-30 FG/FGA L

25.Date: Sun 01/07/73
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 12 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 17-36 FG/FGA W

26.Date: Fri 02/09/73
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-3 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-24 FG/FGA W

27.Date: Sun 02/25/73
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 20 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 10-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 21 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 10-27 FG/FGA L

28.Date: Tue 03/27/73
- Chamberlain 0 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 0-0 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 24 pts, 17 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 12-31 FG/FGA W

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For a Lakers fan you really do not seem to understand what the Lakers asked the 33-36 year old Chamberlain to do. There's a reason why he dominated the boards most of those games. There's also a reason why he took a whole lot less shots.

You are doing the equivalent of posting recent stats of Howard and comparing them to Duncans and acting like you have made a point. It also should be pointed out that in the earlier contests they went back forth even with Chamberlain on the wrong side of 30 and as he aged he declined while Jabbar was still in his prime.

So congratulations you have proven that prime Jabbar was for the most part better than twilight Chamberlain. He still beat Jabbar in the WCF. He still played in a an NBA not watered down by the ABA, still didn't wallow in mediocre teams for 9 years. Still had the 5 greatest seasons for a big man in NBA history. 5 highest PPG for a season. 7 for RPG. Top 2 FG%. 100 points in a game. 50 RPG. Records that will never be beaten.

They didn't tally blocks otherwise I imagine he would be up there too. He literally would grab shots out of the air.

He had more scoring titles more rebounding titles more assist titles.

Oh and ESPN ranks Chamberlain higher as well.

http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/athletes.html


1. Michael Jordan
2. Babe Ruth
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jim Brown
5. Wayne Gretzky
6. Jesse Owens
7. Jim Thorpe
8. Willie Mays
9. Jack Nicklaus
10. Babe Didrikson
11. Joe Louis
12. Carl Lewis
13. Wilt Chamberlain
14. Hank Aaron
15. Jackie Robinson
16. Ted Williams
17. Magic Johnson
18. Bill Russell
19. Martina Navratilova :lol
20. Ty Cobb
21. Gordie Howe
22. Joe DiMaggio
23. Jackie Joyner-Kersee :lol
24. Sugar Ray Robinson
25. Joe Montana
26. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
27. Jerry Rice
28. Red Grange
29. Arnold Palmer
30. Larry Bird
31. Bobby Orr
32. Johnny Unitas
33. Mark Spitz
34. Lou Gehrig
35. Secretariat
36. Oscar Robertson
37. Mickey Mantle
38. Ben Hogan
39. Walter Payton
40. Lawrence Taylor
41. Wilma Rudolph
42. Sandy Koufax
43. Julius Erving
44. Bobby Jones
45. Bill Tilden
46. Eric Heiden
47. Edwin Moses
48. Pete Sampras
49. O.J. Simpson
50. Chris Evert

[pass1st]

Overrated my ass. You just conveniently toss out completely bullshit arguments. Those Celtics won 8 championships in a row and 9 in 10 yeas. Most years they had to go through the teams that Wilt was carrying in the ECF and then the best the Western Conference could offer. Year after year after year.

The 80s Celtics had perhaps the all time greatest front court but their guards were decent and their bench mediocre. They won 2 and had mixed levels of success otherwise including losing to the Lakers in 1985. The 60s Celtics dominated the league for a decade. It's not even in the same stratosphere.

Don't buy the David Stern hype.

The only thing that is overrated is a brain that tries to use championship tallies to justify Kareem and then think that the greatest dynasty in basketball history is overrated.

And one thing that you neglect to consider is that when Kareem played professional basketball was watered down by the existence of the ABA. It's interesting that is not considered in your commentary on eras. When there was one league Wilt was scoring 100 point grabbing 50 rebounds averaging 50/25 and so forth. One league not two. Those Celtics won championships with one league not two.

Kareem did not win shit without The Big O or Magic. He went 9 years without and made quick exits from the playoffs --when he actually made them-- all but one year when he got swept by Walton. Maybe at some point you will address that. I doubt it since its the third time I have had to bring it up.

Let's also not forget the one that was supposedly carrying teams missed the playoffs not once but twice during that span. Tag onto that another first round exit and exactly what was he carrying in what was obviously his prime? A mediocre team? He was pivotal during that stretch obviously. Much of this is in the watered down league.

And again Wilt was 34 and Alcindor was 23. Wilt's team won. You can try and hang your hat on that but I'm not buying it. Further Alcindor averaged 36/16 at 58% that season and against Chamberlain he was held him under his season averages and to an abysmal 43% from the field.

For all of your assertion of Robinson not being the defender he once was, he locked down West for much of that series. Kareem still couldn't carry them to victory.

Now i guess you could try and hang you hat on Jabbar holding up until he was 41 but I would counter that it took those extra 5 years for him to catch Chamberlain's records.

On a final note I don't put Duncan in front of Kobe. Perhaps if Duncan hadn't tore his knee up in 2006 then it might be different but it is what it is. Same number of MVPs but Bryant has the scoring titles and championships. Overall he has had a better body of work. I recognize that.

:lol

Celtics won in a weak era, let's just throw that under the bus. Nobody is going to even attempt to argue the late 70s celtics, 80s and big 3 of the 2000s wouldn't do anything less than stomp the Russel celtics with ease. I doubt even the resident Celtic fans here would think the Russel Celtics were at the level to compete with the late 70-80s top NBA teams.

By your logic, the Russel Celtics would dominate today :lmao

This isn't Stern hype, it's plain logic. Athletes produced are are better as the decades go on.

I don't need to consider the ABA because the overall talent difference is much greater than you seem to understand. Mikan changed the damn rules of basketball simply because it was abnormal for a man to be that size and have enough athleticism & coordination to jump high enough to block shots about to go in the cylinder so easily. The NBA was such a joke before the 70s and 10x more before the 60s compared to 80s and onward.


Let's also not forget the one that was supposedly carrying teams missed the playoffs not once but twice during that span. Tag onto that another first round exit and exactly what was he carrying in what was obviously his prime? A mediocre team? He was pivotal during that stretch obviously. Much of this is in the watered down league. Kareem's prime was the moment he joined the Lakers, he carried them and couldn't win because the NBA wasn't as big of a joke as it was in Wilt's era. Lakers were alright, but not good enough since acquiring Kareem cost them a lot. Wilt wouldn't have done better, he would have done much worse tbh (if he was in his prime at that time). I don't know how hard it is for you to comprehend that Kareem was more skilled than Wilt, he was considered a finesse player for the later half of his career while posessing athleticism as good as Wilt's if not better.

Wilt was 34 and a veteren, over 60% FG and that was cut in half by Kareem. Utterly outplayed, you can't pull the tosb argument. Kareem was held down a little, but he was in the league for just 2 years (iirc) before the matchup. Your GOAT center, a veteren, was manhandled by a green Kareem that was coming back from injury. :lol

West dominated that series, he was only slowed down by Oscar for the first game iirc. Prove otherwise, please

I don't need to "hang on my hat" on Kareem's longevity, even though he peaked higher than Wilt by miles and didn't lose his game as quickly while keeping up with a rabidly evolving league. It's a credit to Magic in part so I won't bother with it

If you don't put Duncan infront of Kobe, you got plenty of spurfans and non-spurfans to talk with about that :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol

Celtics won in a weak era, let's just throw that under the bus. Nobody is going to even attempt to argue the late 70s celtics, 80s and big 3 of the 2000s wouldn't do anything less than stomp the Russel celtics with ease. I doubt even the resident Celtic fans here would think the Russel Celtics were at the level to compete with the late 70-80s top NBA teams.

By your logic, the Russel Celtics would dominate today :lmao

This isn't Stern hype, it's plain logic. Athletes produced are are better as the decades go on.

I don't need to consider the ABA because the overall talent difference is much greater than you seem to understand. Mikan changed the damn rules of basketball simply because it was abnormal for a man to be that size and have enough athleticism & coordination to jump high enough to block shots about to go in the cylinder so easily. The NBA was such a joke before the 70s and 10x more before the 60s compared to 80s and onward.

Kareem's prime was the moment he joined the Lakers, he carried them and couldn't win because the NBA wasn't as big of a joke as it was in Wilt's era. Lakers were alright, but not good enough since acquiring Kareem cost them a lot. Wilt wouldn't have done better, he would have done much worse tbh (if he was in his prime at that time). I don't know how hard it is for you to comprehend that Kareem was more skilled than Wilt, he was considered a finesse player for the later half of his career while posessing athleticism as good as Wilt's if not better.

Wilt was 34 and a veteren, over 60% FG and that was cut in half by Kareem. Utterly outplayed, you can't pull the tosb argument. Kareem was held down a little, but he was in the league for just 2 years (iirc) before the matchup. Your GOAT center, a veteren, was manhandled by a green Kareem that was coming back from injury. :lol

West dominated that series, he was only slowed down by Oscar for the first game iirc. Prove otherwise, please

I don't need to "hang on my hat" on Kareem's longevity, even though he peaked higher than Wilt by miles and didn't lose his game as quickly while keeping up with a rabidly evolving league. It's a credit to Magic in part so I won't bother with it

If you don't put Duncan infront of Kobe, you got plenty of spurfans and non-spurfans to talk with about that :lol

Russell would probably be the best center in the NBA right now. Have you been paying attention to the big man talent in the NBA lately?

Tyson chandler was rated as the third best C in the country.

Bynum? :lol

He had a more refined game than Howard.

You just throw out shitty assertions and assume that they are true. You don't even bother to address the watering down effect of the ABA. Let's discuss the players that played in the ABA and not the NBA thus Alcindor didn't have to face them as he was missing the playoffs and having first round exits:

Julius Irving
George Gervin
Moses Malone
Mel Daniels
Artis Gilmore
Dan Issel
Louie Dampier
Rick Barry
Billy Cunningham
Connie Hawkins
David Thompson
Cliff Hagan


Those are just the hall of famers. While perhaps the overall talent in pro basketball was higher for most of the 1970s it was not all in one league. Jabbar played in a watered down NBA that had many of its best players poached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_All-Time_Team

Thats a good list of guys that Alcindor didn't have to face.

You going to address this or you just going to repeat yourself that the 1970s were the better era for the NBA? You going to demonstrate how the remaining NBA players were superior in talent. All I see is bluster.

Jabbar didn't have to face the best pro basketball had to offer. Chamberlain did.

As for your assertions about better athletes lets look at how he shot free throws before they changed the rules:


When Wilt Chamberlain was in high school, he had a unique way of shooting free-throws. He would stand at the top of the key, throw the ball up toward the basket, take two steps, jump toward the rim and jam the ball through the net. Doing this resulted in basketball rules to state that a player cannot cross the plane of the free-throw line when shooting a free-throw.

Better athletes my ass. They also widened the lane.

I don't even know why you brought up Mikan. He played in a segregated NBA for half of his career. Wilt came in 9 years after.

As for the matchup you do not even bother to address Alcindor's 68% FG being brought down to 43%. You do not address their respective roles on the team.

Your statement of ridicule as TOSB in no way refutes the argument. I am noticing that you are again resorting to bluster and blanket dismissals.

Its a simple fact of life that athletic ability diminishes as you get older typically from the age of 30 onward. A 34 year old is not the same as a 23 year old in his prime.

It was only Jabbar's 2nd year but this is not the modern era of basketball. Quite the contrary. Jabbar played 4 years at UCLA under the greatest basketball coah of all time

A :lol at Jabbar peaking higher. :lol Finesse

Shall we look at their respective best seasons? Let's do that:

First lets look at Jabbars best totals for points rebounds and FG% and for kicks assists.

35/16/58%/5

Lets look at Chamberlain's seasons that surpassed those:

points: 50, 44, 37, and another 37

rebounds: Every season he played for his 16 year career.

FG%: 73, 68, 65, 60,

Assists: 8.6, 7.8

Now let's look at relative performance at age 23

Jabbar: 32/16
Chamberlain: 38/27

As for the 72 series. I read the press clipping for that era and they do not paint Jabbar's performance as dominating. They were very concerned about the league leader in FG% shooting so poorly and getting dominated on the boards. Wilt wasn't asked to score but at least Jabbar outshot him. We both know who won that series.

Let's also not forget that while Chamberlain was a man of iron and the most physically dominating men in NBA history whose only peers are Shaq O'Neal and Moses Malone, Jabbar was a vagina. When he wasn't punching shit in hissy fits not once but twice or trying to big time guards, he was running into the stands away from Chamberlain or getting otherwise rooted out from the block.

Both were considered malcontents off the court but Chamberlain was noted for all the abuse he soaked up and still dominating. Jabbar and Washington made one of the biggest douche combos in NBA history.

If you Jabbar was bigger then that was one thing but when met with similar or superior size he could be handled on the block. Chamberlain did in 1972.

[Kidd K]

:lmao

Explain why you think Bird should be ranked ahead of Russell, and how you think Bird should also be ranked about any of: MJ, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and Duncan. Explain using facts, rather than more faggotry.

His accolades are worse than every listed player. Only has equal to or more titles than one of them, but that one changed the game due to his dominance and still holds many records.

Bird is #7 at best. He's #8 on my list. Only one guy I rank above him has less titles (Wilt), and only 2 have less MVPs (Shaq, who was clearly more dominant than Bird, and had a longer career with more success), and Duncan (who has more rings in a smaller market with less help, a better win%, more All NBA and far more All defensive team placements, more all star appearances, etc.)

Wtf does Bird have over any of them? Besides being white and the nostalgia factor? Answer: Nothing.

[LkrFan]

I said all the dumb Lakers fans (I've seen namlook and lkrfan cite slam several times each).

Prove it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The criticism of SLAM magazine is nothing more than a fallacy of ridicule. At the end of the day the writers and editors of the magazine are licensed by the NBA, have access to NBA teams and offices and the publication has been written by notable authors that have worked at publications such as ESPN and Sports Illustrated.

Yes the publication attempts to appeal to popular culture as they have hired people that have written for Rolling Stone and Vibe but as a whole the contributors to the magazine are more qualified than a bunch of random people from a message board.

The argument is equivalent to bashing Sesame Street in a discussion about education because it appeals to kids.

[dbestpro]

To me Chamberlin was the best, Jabbar was second, Jordan third, Oscar 4th, Magic 5th, Bird 6th, and Dr J 7th, Russell 8th. The reason is because I have seen all of them play and in their prime. My view is based off how they played the game, who they had to play with and against, and how much help did they get from the zebras. Maybe not best player, but the most skilled player with a basketball remains Maravich and it is not even close.

I actually feel sorry for folks who never got to see these guys play and only have today's game to base the talent level. Most make lists without ever seeing the players play. Jabbar is not on top of most lists for those who have never seen his game.

[namlook]

To me Chamberlin was the best, Jabbar was second, Jordan third, Oscar 4th, Magic 5th, Bird 6th, and Dr J 7th, Russell 8th. The reason is because I have seen all of them play and in their prime. My view is based off how they played the game, who they had to play with and against, and how much help did they get from the zebras. Maybe not best player, but the most skilled player with a basketball remains Maravich and it is not even close.

I actually feel sorry for folks who never got to see these guys play and only have today's game to base the talent level. Most make lists without ever seeing the players play. Jabbar is not on top of most lists for those who have never seen his game.

Wilt didn't win enough to be considered the best overall player. Best individual talent? Maybe. But stats are only half of the story when looking at a player. Individual performance + team success is what defines a players standing. Similarly Oscar was a stat machine like Wilt but he didn't win enough to be considered the 4th best player of all time.

[CitizenDwayne]

The essential point of this thread is way off...it's not like Kareem is constantly shafted out of "greatest of all time" talks. He's almost always up there with Jordan, Wilt, Magic and Bird.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wilt didn't win enough to be considered the best overall player. Best individual talent? Maybe. But stats are only half of the story when looking at a player. Individual performance + team success is what defines a players standing. Similarly Oscar was a stat machine like Wilt but he didn't win enough to be considered the 4th best player of all time.

Spare me. Wilt had winning season every year but one. He missed the playoff once. Evaluating a player on things beyond that players control such as personnel is horseshit. Both players won when surrounded by multiple Hall of Famers but Jabbar just was lucky to get more of them.

Jabbar went NINE YEARS on mediocre teams after Wilt left. That's almost half of his career. If you want to look at team performance then you cannot just discount that.

And its not that Wilt just had better stats but he set records that will never be broken. You do not create stats out of nothing and both did it year after year going deep into the playoffs.

[lefty]

To me Chamberlin was the best,.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Abandon.gif