"You didn't build that!"

[TheMACHINE]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7be0bn4Cq1rbxfido1_500.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7bf00iswJ1rbxfido1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7be2mN7Es1rbxfido1_500.jpg

[mavs>spurs]

Obama is dangerous to have running the country and that comment of his really sums it up. It's the mentality in this country now. Nanny state full steam ahead.

[Drachen]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7be0bn4Cq1rbxfido1_500.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7bf00iswJ1rbxfido1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7be2mN7Es1rbxfido1_500.jpg


LOL!


Obama is dangerous to have running the country and that comment of his really sums it up. It's the mentality in this country now. Nanny state full steam ahead.

What was it that he said which was untrue and so offensive?

[mavs>spurs]

LOL!



What was it that he said which was untrue and so offensive?

"If you have a successful business, you didn't build that someone else did."

-Barrack Obama

[Drachen]

Oh you mean the part where he is talking about the infrastructure that business owners take advantage of that they didn't build?

[TheMACHINE]

oh you mean the infrastructure that the government built using the money from the people he is reffering too?

[TheMACHINE]

but i forgot, the goverment roads built that computer...forgive me.

[Drachen]

oh you mean the infrastructure that the government built using the money from the people he is reffering too?

You are exactly right, the entirety of the speech is about how the rich need to pay some more / give back, because despite them thinking that they did it all on their own, they did not and so the rewards should, in part, go back to finance future infrastructure improvements, etc. for future business owners.

i.e. don't benefit from the golden goose then kill it once you get yours.

[Drachen]

Here is the actual cogent part of the speech.


The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together

For what it's worth, he mentions government (research) once in the whole speech, but he mentions "we" and "each other" many times. He is trying to say that we all stand on each other's shoulders. It's not that hard to read this.

[TheMACHINE]

i know what he said, and i dont agree with it...then again, im a selfish business owner who didnt build my business myself right?

We give plenty back to society...and not only does he WANT more of what we earned, he also doesnt want us to take credit for it.

[Drachen]

i know what he said, and i dont agree with it...then again, im a selfish business owner who didnt build my business myself right?

We give plenty back to society...and not only does he WANT more of what we earned, he also doesnt want us to take credit for it.

That is fine, I am not going to argue how much you have utilized the help/advice of others as well as the business environment built by those before you and the socialist programs like roads and bridges. I really don't care (and I wasn't there to observe), but in this particular speech, to take that quote and make it seem like he said that business owners didn't build their business (as opposed to the infrastructure/systems/etc that he is referring to) is ridiculous.

[mavs>spurs]

oh you mean the infrastructure that the government built using the money from the people he is reffering too?

:lmao

/thread

[mavs>spurs]

Government spending is almost always inefficient spending. Whenever people are operating on government money they have no incentive to be wise with it. They work less hard, take more short cuts than if it was their own business. Recipients of government money do crooked stuff to get even more govt money, for instance schools. When I was in high school, the last month of school we did nothing but had to be there just so the school could get more money. It was a waste of time and added no value to society. Take a dollar, and that same dollar goes a lot further in the private sector than in the public sector because people act differently whenever it's YOUR money.

Government stands to perform certain core functions to society, and anything outside of that is waste and overkill. It's just plain bad for the economy. The commies owned everything in Russia and it failed. China would have already developed by now if they weren't being held back. Governments only stand to serve the people, we don't stand to serve our governments.

[Drachen]

:lmao

/thread

You are correct when you say /thread.

The statement that you quoted for your post captures exactly the essence of what the prez was trying to say.

[mavs>spurs]

we dont need more taxes, we need smaller government

[TheMACHINE]

damn right. there's already too much government...dont need them between me and my doctor either.

[Drachen]

we dont need more taxes, we need smaller government

You YOURSELF said that we can't afford austerity at the moment.

[TheMACHINE]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7bqbs49HV1rbxfido1_r1_500.png

[Latarian Milton]

government should be 1/10 its current size but trimming the government size would mean more people being employed because in 49 of the 50 states, the government is the biggest employer within the boundary of the state.

the fact is the bigger your government is, the more problems you have and then, you need to expand the government & add a few more governmental branches designated to solve these problems, which might not look too bad as a short-term measures but will certainly making things worse in the long term. and that's the way the government's been functioning for the past decades... Rome ain't built in one day tbh

[Drachen]

damn right. there's already too much government...dont need them between me and my doctor either.

when did they do this? or is this just a one off statement from nowhere.

[Latarian Milton]

the iceberg can't be thawed in one day imho

[mavs>spurs]

You YOURSELF said that we can't afford austerity at the moment.

Yeah later on down the road after a recovery I would like to see a reduction in spending and start downsizing the govt, but we can't afford it right now in the midst of this mess. I'd like to cut spending in areas like militarizing the police with drones, and spending tons on big data warehouses and high tech fusion centers so that people over at the NSA can use our tax dollars to spy on us. We waste so much fucking money on this bloated government. The pointless shit needs to go, especially the fucking TSA. We don't need our weiners groped and children molested in the name of the terrorist boogeyman, thanks. Just stop arming training and funding them as well as allowing 9/11 to happen and we'll be alright. If our people were competent, 9/11 wouldn't have happened with the measures we already had in place.

[TheMACHINE]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/didntbuildblocks.png-png

[Drachen]

Oh and FWIW I would completely support the denial of all future overtime for government employees as a common sense way to save some money. A buddy of mine did an internship at the VA and one of the staff there refused to use a computer (used a typewriter). She ended up taking far far longer to do anything than her coworkers and therefore racked up a lot of overtime so that she could complete her work. She made more from overtime than her base pay annually. This is apparently more common than we would like to think and is exactly the kind of thing you were talking about (M<S) when you said private business is more efficient.

[mavs>spurs]

government should be 1/10 its current size but trimming the government size would mean more people being employed because in 49 of the 50 states, the government is the biggest employer within the boundary of the state.

the fact is the bigger your government is, the more problems you have and then, you need to expand the government & add a few more governmental branches designated to solve these problems, which might not look too bad as a short-term measures but will certainly making things worse in the long term. and that's the way the government's been functioning for the past decades... Rome ain't built in one day tbh

If an 8 year old gets it surely you guys can :lol

[Drachen]

Yeah later on down the road after a recovery I would like to see a reduction in spending and start downsizing the govt, but we can't afford it right now in the midst of this mess. I'd like to cut spending in areas like militarizing the police with drones, and spending tons on big data warehouses and high tech fusion centers so that people over at the NSA can use our tax dollars to spy on us. We waste so much fucking money on this bloated government. The pointless shit needs to go, especially the fucking TSA. We don't need our weiners groped and children molested in the name of the terrorist boogeyman, thanks. Just stop arming training and funding them as well as allowing 9/11 to happen and we'll be alright. If our people were competent, 9/11 wouldn't have happened with the measures we already had in place.

I wholeheartedly agree. 100% with this take.


If an 8 year old gets it surely you guys can :lol

:LOL

[mavs>spurs]

Oh and FWIW I would completely support the denial of all future overtime for government employees as a common sense way to save some money. A buddy of mine did an internship at the VA and one of the staff there refused to use a computer (used a typewriter). She ended up taking far far longer to do anything than her coworkers and therefore racked up a lot of overtime so that she could complete her work. She made more from overtime than her base pay annually. This is apparently more common than we would like to think and is exactly the kind of thing you were talking about (M<S) when you said private business is more efficient.

100% true, government employees are some of the laziest, useless fucks out there. then they end up having to give out overtime to finish the job and gladly so because it's on the public dime. the bank is bottomless for these guys, as opposed to the guy running his own business or who has shareholders to answer to. They have to be productive, they don't have any choice.

[baseline bum]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7be0bn4Cq1rbxfido1_500.jpg


Truth tbh; dude stole it from Xerox.

[Mr. Peabody]

So, Obama basically says "No man is an island" and the right goes apeshit. The funny thing is his sentiment is seemingly Christian, right?

[Latarian Milton]

If an 8 year old gets it surely you guys can :lol

im like 11yrs old now tbh, i was 8 when i stole grandma's SUV and that was like 3 years ago :lol

[Drachen]

So, Obama basically says "No man is an island" and the right goes apeshit. The funny thing is his sentiment is seemingly Christian, right?

They are Simon and Garfunkel fans.

[Yonivore]

Oh you mean the part where he is talking about the infrastructure that business owners take advantage of that they didn't build?
Of what infrastructure do they take advantage?

[Latarian Milton]

That is fine, I am not going to argue how much you have utilized the help/advice of others as well as the business environment built by those before you and the socialist programs like roads and bridges. I really don't care (and I wasn't there to observe), but in this particular speech, to take that quote and make it seem like he said that business owners didn't build their business (as opposed to the infrastructure/systems/etc that he is referring to) is ridiculous.

just because socialism or "national capitalism" had achieved sort of success in some certain countries, it doesn't mean it will crank out the same result anywhere else and the contemporary prosperity may be just a fluke. government has been ill-managed for decades now and you can't fix this shit once and for all by laying off them lazy asses because if they're laid off, the unskilled fucks would struggle to survive on their own power and would turn out to be even heavier burdens to the society then they currently are

laziness is one of human's shameful instincts but the employer can always find out ways to make his workers not be lazy, and that's why private businesses are more efficient

and what's your point little chink immigrant? enunciate it please :hat

[Yonivore]

... the rewards should, in part, go back to finance future infrastructure improvements, etc. for future business owners.
They already do. 40% of tax payers (the largest percentage of which are business owners) pay 95% of all taxes that support infrastructure improvements.

[Drachen]

Of what infrastructure do they take advantage?

Well, I will just go by the speech rather than speculate. He mentions roads, bridges, internet, the american system, GI Bill . . . All things that *WE* built, that the business owner takes advantage of. Yes the BO is a part of these things as well, but the BO cannot do it alone.

Once again:


The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

[Drachen]

just because socialism or "national capitalism" had achieved sort of success in some certain countries, it doesn't mean it will crank out the same result anywhere else and the contemporary prosperity may be just a fluke. government has been ill-managed for decades now and you can't fix this shit once and for all by laying off them lazy asses because if they're laid off, the unskilled fucks would struggle to survive on their own power and would turn out to be even heavier burdens to the society then they currently are

laziness is one of human's shameful instincts but the employer can always find out ways to make his workers not be lazy, and that's why private businesses are more efficient

and what's your point little chink immigrant? enunciate it please :hat

Sup Rogue.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i know what he said, and i dont agree with it...then again, im a selfish business owner who didnt build my business myself right?

We give plenty back to society...and not only does he WANT more of what we earned, he also doesnt want us to take credit for it.

http://blogs.ajc.com/cynthia-tucker/files/2009/11/FedBud_RevandOut_FY07.jpg

Acting like business putting in the lionshare is fun I guess.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

just because socialism or "national capitalism" had achieved sort of success in some certain countries, it doesn't mean it will crank out the same result anywhere else and the contemporary prosperity may be just a fluke. government has been ill-managed for decades now and you can't fix this shit once and for all by laying off them lazy asses because if they're laid off, the unskilled fucks would struggle to survive on their own power and would turn out to be even heavier burdens to the society then they currently are

laziness is one of human's shameful instincts but the employer can always find out ways to make his workers not be lazy, and that's why private businesses are more efficient

and what's your point little chink immigrant? enunciate it please :hat

Sure but past success is the best predictor of future success. Certainly more predictive then bullshit rhetoric and empirically baseless ridicule.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They already do. 40% of tax payers (the largest percentage of which are business owners) pay 95% of all taxes that support infrastructure improvements.

This is horseshit even if you were to put in all their outlays and commit all of them towards infrastructure it still would not be true.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of what infrastructure do they take advantage?

What do economy of scale mean?

its like talking to a middle schooler.

[Wild Cobra]

Downsizing can be done over time with no harm. It's called attrition. As people retire or leave a job for some other reason, move people around as needed. Announce future job cuts and offer one time incentives if needed to relocate into another job. Other things along those lines, but otherwise freeze government hiring except for critical positions.

[MannyIsGod]

So, Obama basically says "No man is an island" and the right goes apeshit. The funny thing is his sentiment is seemingly Christian, right?

Why bother with context anymore? We're a soundbite nation.

When people wonder why we're stuck electing idiots you need look no further than this thread. When people wonder why no politician will actually try to serve a much needed dose of medicine that does not taste well then they need look no further than this thread.

This country is too stupid to bother with context so what it gets is what it deserves.

[Latarian Milton]

Sure but past success is the best predictor of future success. Certainly more predictive then bullshit rhetoric and empirically baseless ridicule.

how come calling someone what he is becomes kind of ridicule all of a sudden? and is it a wrongful behavior at all to deride someone who hates america, even if he was actually held up to ridicule?

[Yonivore]

So, Obama basically says "No man is an island" and the right goes apeshit. The funny thing is his sentiment is seemingly Christian, right?
Actually, that's not what he said at all. He said a business's success has less to do with the vision, commitment, and acumen of the entrepreneur than with all the help he received to be successful.

Of course, the successful business owner probably invested his entire wealth in starting that business and also probably has more sweat equity invested in it than anyone could imagine.

Everyone else -- all those other people to who the President is referring only helped because of the promise of a return that exceeded the value of their contribution. Investors want a return in dividends and shared profits, employees want a return in wages and benefits, and customers want a value for their dollar.

Investors, employees, and customers don't cause a business to be successful, they gravitate to successful businesses.

So, no, I reject the premise the successful business owner didn't do it himself. He's the only reason the business is successful. If not for him, no investor, no employee, no customer would be attracted to what he's offering.

Obama is an idiot.

[Yonivore]

nM9sbQf9MQ4

[Drachen]

Actually, that's not what he said at all. He said a business's success has less to do with the vision, commitment, and acumen of the entrepreneur than with all the help he received to be successful.

Of course, the successful business owner probably invested his entire wealth in starting that business and also probably has more sweat equity invested in it than anyone could imagine.

Everyone else -- all those other people to who the President is referring only helped because of the promise of a return that exceeded the value of their contribution. Investors want a return in dividends and shared profits, employees want a return in wages and benefits, and customers want a value for their dollar.

Investors, employees, and customers don't cause a business to be successful, they gravitate to successful businesses.

So, no, I reject the premise the successful business owner didn't do it himself. He's the only reason the business is successful. If not for him, no investor, no employee, no customer would be attracted to what he's offering.

Obama is an idiot.

He didn't mention investors, employees, or customers and as I have posted before (twice) in this thread. His point was
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.".

Thanks for not reading AGAIN, then commenting like you have any idea what is going on AGAIN!

[mavs>spurs]

what he said was complete nanny state logic and rhetoric. the problem is that whenever "your guy" says it, people will defend it. we need to move past this division they've created and hold all politicians accountable. what obama said was flat out dangerous and un american. some of you will think i'm right wing because i'm constantly attacking obama- no. that just so happens to be because i started posting in the political forum during obama's tenure. i was just as hard if not worse on Bush. the bullshit needs to stop. How can you guys not see the incoming welfare/nanny state coming? 51% of americans are now dependent on government. that has DOUBLED under obama.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

how come calling someone what he is becomes kind of ridicule all of a sudden? and is it a wrongful behavior at all to deride someone who hates america, even if he was actually held up to ridicule?

Cheesecake is not pie!

:spin

I love me some nonsequitors.

[Yonivore]

NvYCeXAcdG4

[mavs>spurs]

check out this to put what i'm saying into perspective

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/16-statistics-which-show-that-the-number-of-americans-dependent-on-the-government-is-at-an-all-time-high

[Yonivore]

He didn't mention investors, employees, or customers and as I have posted before (twice) in this thread. His point was
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.".

Thanks for not reading AGAIN, then commenting like you have any idea what is going on AGAIN!
You miss the point.

People succeed because that person convinces enough of the rest of us to invest, work, or buy his idea. It's a not a "working together" affair. All the people you and Obama believe "work together" with a successful entrepreneur, to make him successful, wouldn't do it if there was nothing in it for them; profit, wages, and value.

[Drachen]

You miss the point.

People succeed because that person convinces enough of the rest of us to invest, work, or buy his idea. It's a not a "working together" affair. All the people you and Obama believe "work together" with a successful entrepreneur, to make him successful, wouldn't do it if there nothing in it for them; profit, wages, and value.

Which people did obama mention? Also which people did I say?

[Yonivore]

Which people did obama mention? Also which people did I say?
Whomever you two believe are "doing things together" to make people successful.

[George Gervin's Afro]

lol this is red meat for yoni

[Drachen]

Whomever you two believe are "doing things together" to make people successful.

Well, the examples that he gave were ones that all of us did together. I gave no examples.

I am actually pretty happy with this thread. My goal was to come in to add context and it seems that people (while still arguing over his point) are, at least arguing the correct, and not some sound bite taken out of context from the middle of a speech. Carry on then.

[DMX7]

He was saying that business owners that benefit from the American system, roads and bridges did not build those things.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges -- If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that (the American system, roads and bridges). Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

[George Gervin's Afro]

He was saying that business owners that benefit from the American system, roads and bridges did not build those things.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges -- If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that (the American system, roads and bridges). Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

Wait a minute... I have been watching fox news and reading drudge report news all day and no one ever put the statement in it's proper context.. I feel duped by the lame stream media

[Yonivore]

He was saying that business owners that benefit from the American system, roads and bridges did not build those things.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.
A government employee against whom there are probably several thousand unsuccessful former students probably now have a claim, thanks to Obama.


Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.
The members of the first Constitutional Convention are all dead.


Somebody invested in roads and bridges -- If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that (the American system, roads and bridges). Somebody else made that happen.
Somebody? Probably the successful business owner and in amounts disproportionately large when compared to the rest of the population. They're called TAXES, perhaps you've heard of them. Besides, last I checked, business owners were responsible for any expenses related to construction of driveways connecting their private property to government roads. Government roads used by all of us; including those that just drive on by.


The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
The internet was created by the DOD -- taxpayer funded R&D -- and exploited by entrepreneurs when it was opened to the public.

[DMX7]

A government employee against whom there are probably several thousand unsuccessful former students probably now have a claim, thanks to Obama.


The members of the first Constitutional Convention are all dead.


Somebody? Probably the successful business owner and in amounts disproportionately large when compared to the rest of the population. They're called TAXES, perhaps you've heard of them. Besides, last I checked, business owners were responsible for any expenses related to construction of driveways connecting their private property to government roads. Government roads used by all of us; including those that just drive on by.


The internet was created by the DOD -- taxpayer funded R&D -- and exploited by entrepreneurs when it was opened to the public.


So you agree with Obama. Great!

[Yonivore]

Wait a minute... I have been watching fox news and reading drudge report news all day and no one ever put the statement in it's proper context.. I feel duped by the lame stream media
Well, I'm glad you agree that's the proper context because, that doesn't make his statement any less egregious.

And, I heard that complete quote on the radio several times today, driving from Houston to Austin.

[DMX7]

Yoni doesn't care which context. That Obama spoke is the egregious part.

[Yonivore]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2012/07/TOONCLR0718.jpg.cms_.jpeg

[Yonivore]

http://4-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2012/07/492x446xsuccess2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.kUz05exMZ4.jpg

[mercos]

The worship of the rich by those on the right is downright hilarious. The hatred for the government (which is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people) is funny too. As an actual business owner, I agree 100% with Obama's statements that essentially say no man is an island. I'm not so arrogant to think that I could have pulled this off without my government providing roads, police protection, military protection, and many other services that I could not have funded by myself. As a business owner, you get the biggest reward for taking the risks in opening the business. It doesn't make you God, though. Despite all the crying on the right, I also didn't see a lot of business owners in the poor house under Clinton era tax rates, which is what Obama wants to return to.

[Yonivore]

I'm not so arrogant to think that I could have pulled this off without my government providing roads, police protection, military protection, and many other services that I could not have funded by myself.
1) The government didn't provide those services; taxpayers did, of which I suspect you are one. 2) You didn't use them exclusively, either, and, truth be told, depending on your business, you probably pitched in more than your proportionate share of the tax burden represented by those services.

[ElNono]

The worship of the rich by those on the right is downright hilarious. The hatred for the government (which is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people) is funny too. As an actual business owner, I agree 100% with Obama's statements that essentially say no man is an island. I'm not so arrogant to think that I could have pulled this off without my government providing roads, police protection, military protection, and many other services that I could not have funded by myself. As a business owner, you get the biggest reward for taking the risks in opening the business. It doesn't make you God, though. Despite all the crying on the right, I also didn't see a lot of business owners in the poor house under Clinton era tax rates, which is what Obama wants to return to.

What's funnier is that they idolize people like Reagan, who was telling them "Starve the beast!" to their ears, while he was raising taxes, growing government and going on a spending binge on the national credit card...

[mercos]

1) The government didn't provide those services; taxpayers did, of which I suspect you are one. 2) You didn't use them exclusively, either, and, truth be told, depending on your business, you probably pitched in more than your proportionate share of the tax burden represented by those services.


:lol This is where you guys fail. You think the government is some foreign entity. We live in a representative democracy. The government is merely one set of tax payers acting on behalf of the rest of us. A government "of the people" as a famous Republican president once said. The government did provide those services, on behalf of the tax payers.

And it doesn't matter if I am not the only one using the roads, or even if I paid a disproportionate amount of taxes to help pave them. The fact is that I could not have access to them without help. I can assure you, though I've paid a good amount in taxes, I haven't payed enough to pave any highways.

[Yonivore]

:lol This is where you guys fail. You think the government is some foreign entity. We live in a representative democracy. The government is merely one set of tax payers acting on behalf of the rest of us. A government "of the people" as a famous Republican president once said. The government did provide those services, on behalf of the tax payers.
The government provides those services at the expense of tax payers. Big difference.


And it doesn't matter if I am not the only one using the roads, or even if I paid a disproportionate amount of taxes to help pave them. The fact is that I could not have access to them without help. I can assure you, though I've paid a good amount in taxes, I haven't payed enough to pave any highways.
The road would have been there whether you decided to put a business there or not. As would have all the other government services.

[boutons_deux]

Obama is dangerous to have running the country and that comment of his really sums it up. It's the mentality in this country now. Nanny state full steam ahead.

... spewing right wing talking points, slander, paranoia

What EXACTLY has Obama done that hasn't been reflexively obstructed by Repugs?

[Clipper Nation]

Yeah later on down the road after a recovery I would like to see a reduction in spending and start downsizing the govt, but we can't afford it right now in the midst of this mess. I'd like to cut spending in areas like militarizing the police with drones, and spending tons on big data warehouses and high tech fusion centers so that people over at the NSA can use our tax dollars to spy on us. We waste so much fucking money on this bloated government. The pointless shit needs to go, especially the fucking TSA. We don't need our weiners groped and children molested in the name of the terrorist boogeyman, thanks. Just stop arming training and funding them as well as allowing 9/11 to happen and we'll be alright. If our people were competent, 9/11 wouldn't have happened with the measures we already had in place.

THIS..... solid take, B...

[Clipper Nation]

:lol This is where you guys fail. You think the government is some foreign entity. We live in a representative democracy.

False... it's a republic... HUGE difference tbh...

[Mr. Peabody]

The odd thing is that I remember Obama saying this exact same thing before (it might have even been during a SOTU address) when discussing the Bush tax cuts and no one said anything about it. Now, it's a big deal.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/didntbuildblocks.png-png

lol!!!!

[boutons_deux]

Buffet, Gates, etc wouldn't be multi-$10B if they had been born in Bangladesh.

[Yonivore]

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/someoneelseobama.png

[Yonivore]

Jon Lovitz (http://twitter.com/realjonlovitz/status/225618907413757953/photo/1/large) tweeted my favorite, so far...and, I stand corrected; there is a success for which the person receiving credit was not responsible:


http://p.twimg.com/AyGPM29CQAAa9_M.jpg:large

Jon Lovitz, a Democrat that voted for Obama in '08, went on an epic rant (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/audio-jon-lovitz-tears-pres-obama-profane-rant) when he realized exactly what Obama's up to. Better late than never, I suppose.

[scott]

Too much nuance makes for moronic back and forth. Par for the course.

[possessed]

Buffet, Gates, etc wouldn't be multi-$10B if they had been born in Bangladesh.

Or a socialist country for that matter. :dizzy

[boutons_deux]

Or a socialist country for that matter. :dizzy

There are plenty of millionaires and billionaires in social-democratic countries, but no people at risk of personal bankruptcy and lifelong poverty from medical catastrophes.

[boutons_deux]

Jon Lovitz (http://twitter.com/realjonlovitz/status/225618907413757953/photo/1/large) tweeted my favorite, so far...and, I stand corrected; there is a success for which the person receiving credit was not responsible:


http://p.twimg.com/AyGPM29CQAAa9_M.jpg:large

Jon Lovitz, a Democrat that voted for Obama in '08, went on an epic rant (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/audio-jon-lovitz-tears-pres-obama-profane-rant) when he realized exactly what Obama's up to. Better late than never, I suppose.

Barry didn't work for, nor ask for the Nobel prize. It was given to him.

Yoni taking his cue from the right-wing thought dictators and running hard with a single phrase as a fatal indictment of Barry.

[Drachen]

Too much nuance makes for moronic back and forth. Par for the course.

Water is wet, sun rises in the east, sets in the west...

[Ignignokt]

So the govt takes your m money by coercion to build infrastructure then they want to take credit for your creation you built in an environment u had no choice in?

[Drachen]

So the govt takes your m money by coercion to build infrastructure then they want to take credit for your creation you built in an environment u had no choice in?

He only even mentioned government once, he wasn't talking about government. The entire speech is strewn with we did this or we did that.

[Ignignokt]

So that means that we are indebted to corporations too?

[Ignignokt]

If I buy an I phone and I invent an app, should I be forced through govt to give back to steve jobs? So then that means the rich have already payed their fair share.

[Ignignokt]

Dwight howard didnt dunk the ball, it was the slave traders who shipped his ass here to africa.

[Ignignokt]

*from africa

[Drachen]

If I buy an I phone and I invent an app, should I be forced through govt to give back to steve jobs? So then that means the rich have already payed their fair share.

Assuming you built an Iphone app, you do give back to steve jobs (well not anymore) to the tune of 30% of your proceeds. Silly guy.

[Drachen]

Dwight howard didnt dunk the ball, it was the slave traders who shipped his ass here to africa.

If you subscribe to the belief that black people are more athletic than white people (I am not having this discussion, but I am loosely applying the concepts in the thread to your stupid examples) you could make an extremely indirect (and looooooooong) link to whatever evolutionary conditions caused them to be that way and dwight howard dunking the ball.

[boutons_deux]

Robert Parry trashes yet-another GECKO LIE, along with trashing fact-checkers, and the echo chamber of the corporate media.

btw, that means also Parry is trashing the Yoni's here pushing the GECKO LIE

=========

Mitt Romney’s New Lie

The “independent fact-checkers” might want to dust off their Pinocchios and pull out their “truth-o-meters” in reaction to Mitt Romney’s latest calculated lie, applying deceptive editing to President Barack Obama’s remarks about how public infrastructure supports private enterprise.

This is a clear case where Romney and the right-wing media know what they’re doing. They clipped Obama’s remarks in such a way as to make it seem that the President was saying that business owners didn’t build their own businesses, when the comment actually refers to the building of roads and other public investments.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. (Photo credit: mittromney.com)

In a talk in Roanoke, Virginia, on July 13, Obama was describing the contributions that the public sector has made toward creating conditions that help businesses succeed:

“Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

Though Obama’s syntax is slightly mangled, the context is obvious. Obama is saying that businesses did not build the roads, bridges and the Internet. But the right-wing media quickly lopped off the context. Fox News applied its classic selective editing.

On Tuesday, Romney joined in, telling a rally in Pennsylvania that Obama “said this: ‘If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.’” Romney then extrapolated from this misleading quote that Obama wants Americans to be “ashamed of success” and that Obama is “changing the nature of America.”

“I find it extraordinary that a philosophy of that nature would be spoken by a president of the United States,” Romney said.

But Obama wasn’t saying that someone else built the business; he was saying someone else built “that,” i.e. the public infrastructure that businesses use. Given this clear context, Romney and other right-wing figures know exactly what they’re doing. They’re lying.

Yet, reflecting again how poorly the U.S. news media handles such distortions, the Washington Post reported Romney’s rendition of Obama’s statement without context or contradiction. The willful distortion by Romney was allowed to flow unchecked into the public discourse.

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romneys-new-lie/

[Borat Sagyidev]

we dont need more taxes, we need smaller government


You YOURSELF said that we can't afford austerity at the moment.


Yeah later on down the road after a recovery I would like to see a reduction in spending and start downsizing the govt, but we can't afford it right now in the midst of this mess. I'd like to cut spending in areas like militarizing the police with drones, and spending tons on big data warehouses and high tech fusion centers so that people over at the NSA can use our tax dollars to spy on us. We waste so much fucking money on this bloated government. The pointless shit needs to go, especially the fucking TSA. We don't need our weiners groped and children molested in the name of the terrorist boogeyman, thanks. Just stop arming training and funding them as well as allowing 9/11 to happen and we'll be alright. If our people were competent, 9/11 wouldn't have happened with the measures we already had in place.

This is pretty much the truth, but the fact is that this is a continuing cycle with a lack of incentive to fix it. Startup businesses nationwide (and likely worldwide)would be in shambles if it wasn't for massive financial bailouts.

Our federal reserve has given out more than $24 Trillion in financial bailouts since 2007.

Businesses that depend on venture capital including myself, would be in shambles. Credit would be next to non-existent without the surge of government cash these past few years.

The system is broken, but this govt and those who influence it have no incentive to fix it because the same people bankrupting their businesses levy their losses on the everyone else. When it gets bad enough, they even get more money. Some people call it "too large to fail"

GM, Chrysler, Goldman, BOA, and AIG would all be gone at this point if there was any incentive to stop the bleeding.

They should be, but the American public has been duped into thinking that starting over is unthinkable. Tesla motors for example, shouldn't be having to compete with large failures like GM. Yet people have been conned into believing Tesla is risky and GM more viable, no matter the evidence.

It's a big public deception game that certain corporations and individuals are taking part in. $6billion dollars will be spent in advertising revenue for this years presidential election. That's $20 per person, while it's usually measured it cents in other democratic states elsewhere.

There is no incentive to stop it either, since it's pretty evident it's working.
The fact is some of you are more concerned about a 1k monthly welfare check to a family rather than the billions to trillions that have been networked out of our federal reserve system.

Your priorities have been altered with intent.

[George Gervin's Afro]

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me because they want to give something back," the president said. "If you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen," he said. "The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

just a reminder to what he actually said.. I have a feeling the obama haters are going to stick with their talking points..

[TeyshaBlue]

The point could conceivably be made that since American citizens ostensibly have access to the same basic infrastructure, that effects of that access can be normalized to about zero, resulting in a scenario where someone could actually build something by themselves relative to the general population. No?

[MannyIsGod]

The point could conceivably be made that since American citizens ostensibly have access to the same basic infrastructure, that effects of that access can be normalized to about zero, resulting in a scenario where someone could actually build something by themselves relative to the general population. No?

No, because we're not competing in a national market but in a global one. Aside from that I think its a flawed analysis because all Obama is saying is that we gladly subsidize certain services (IE providing infrastructure) so that our society can function. The fact that we all have access to the roads, IE, is because they are a government provided item.

Does anyone think small businesses would be in a better situation if infrastructure was a private for profit venture? I doubt any of you do.

[TeyshaBlue]

I got the feeling that Obama was not talking in a global context. I understood his message, but I'm just taking a bit of a contrarian view to see if rational discussion ensues.

I don't think any businesses would be a fan of private, for profit infrastructure projects, except the businesses that provide those services. I'm looking at at you, North Texas Tollway Authority.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think he was talking in a global context either. I think his main point was just to say that small businesses need government help to thrive and I believe he's absolutely right.

[mavs>spurs]

I don't think he was talking in a global context either. I think his main point was just to say that small businesses need government help to thrive and I believe he's absolutely right.

governments also need small businesses as well as large ones to not only survive, but to even EXIST.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, never heard anyone make the argument against small businesses though. Have you?

[ChumpDumper]

Small business is GOD!

[mavs>spurs]

capitalism is what this country was founded upon, the founding fathers absolutely despised big government. small businesses aren't hurting people. big government is.

[ChumpDumper]

the founding fathers absolutely despised big government.Some did , some didn't.

[mavs>spurs]

Some did , some didn't.

not true, they gave the bulk of the power to the states. that has since unraveled a lot.

[ChumpDumper]

not trueOf course it's true. That was a major debate from the beginning and still is.

[MannyIsGod]

capitalism is what this country was founded upon, the founding fathers absolutely despised big government. small businesses aren't hurting people. big government is.

No one is saying small business is hurting people. But you go ahead and keep fighting that fight I guess.

[MannyIsGod]

not true, they gave the bulk of the power to the states. that has since unraveled a lot.

You may want to go back and review the articles of confederation and subsequent Constitution if you think they all hated big government. Oh, and the federalist papers.

[ChumpDumper]

You may want to go back and review the articles of confederation and subsequent Constitution if you think they all hated big government. Oh, and the federalist papers.How could he know about those? Alex Jones never mentions that stuff.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How could he know about those? Alex Jones never mentions that stuff.
:lmao

[mavs>spurs]

No one is saying small business is hurting people. But you go ahead and keep fighting that fight I guess.

So basically the argument only goes one way. That's probably why you never see the reverse argument and that answers your question.

[MannyIsGod]

No, you're making it into either or. Its not either or. Being in favor of a reasonable government does not mean you're against small business but thats the strawman you go to.

There's a legitamate debate and differences in ideology regarding the amount of government you need. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the bullshit rhetoric you hear about Obama being socialist (just fucking laughable) and how we're stifled by government.

Making the argument that small businesses benefit greatly from government provided infrastructure and services is one that should be common fucking sense but the fact that its having to be explained to people shows that Obama was obviously correct in pointing it out.

[MannyIsGod]

No, you're making it into either or. Its not either or. Being in favor of a reasonable government does not mean you're against small business but thats the strawman you go to.

There's a legitamate debate and differences in ideology regarding the amount of government you need. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the bullshit rhetoric you hear about Obama being socialist (just fucking laughable) and how we're stifled by government.

Making the argument that small businesses benefit greatly from government provided infrastructure and services is one that should be common fucking sense but the fact that its having to be explained to people shows that Obama was obviously correct in pointing it out.

[mavs>spurs]

There's a legitamate debate and differences in ideology regarding the amount of government you need.

Sure. But when the state becomes religion in this country, and takes away your civil liberties in the name of fear, while rapidly expanding and running massive deficits so that they can wage war against you via militarization of police and massive fusion centers where we are all being spied on funded by tax payer dollars, I think it's safe for everyone to say that's a bit too much. Obama comes from a different ideology, he thinks the state should reign supreme and dominate every aspect of our lives. It's the liberal "utopia" described in 1984.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Yeah, Ok.

[MannyIsGod]

I bet you've never even read 1984.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure. But when the state becomes religionYou don't lead with the straw man.

And George Orwell was a socialist.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

George Orwell was a strong believer in socialism, yet 1984 was him describing a "Liberal Utopia"....

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I bet you've never even read 1984.
He heard Alex Jones' interpretation of 1984, which is basically the same thing :lmao

[mavs>spurs]

I bet you've never even read 1984.

Of course I have, it was mandatory reading at my high school and it should be national policy.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course I have, it was mandatory reading at my high school and it should be national policy.It's about liberals!

lol big government required reading list

[CuckingFunt]

Of course I have, it was mandatory reading at my high school and it should be national policy.

Because there's nothing at all Big Brother-ish about forcing an entire nation to read a novel.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm just wondering why a socialist would write literature that depicted a "liberal utopia" so negatively.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Because there's nothing at all Big Brother-ish about forcing an entire nation to read a novel.
:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Of course I have, it was mandatory reading at my high school and it should be national policy.

lol then you misunderstood it.

[mavs>spurs]

everything that happened in that book is exactly the way this world is headed, thanks to liberals. enjoy your utopia guys.

[MannyIsGod]

Mmmmkay.

[ChumpDumper]

everything that happened in that book is exactly the way this world is headed, thanks to liberals. enjoy your utopia guys.Everything?

Give us some exact examples.

[scott]

everything that happened in that book is exactly the way this world is headed, thanks to liberals. enjoy your utopia guys.

Dude. You're a fucking moron.

[DarrinS]

Obama and Warren have it completely backwards. Did Steve Jobs benefit more from Cupertino, CA? Or, did Cupertino benefit more from Steve Jobs? Without profitable private sector, there are no tax revenues for things like roads.

[MannyIsGod]

Did Obama say that government could exist without small business?

[mavs>spurs]

Obama and Warren have it completely backwards. Did Steve Jobs benefit more from Cupertino, CA? Or, did Cupertino benefit more from Steve Jobs? Without profitable private sector, there are no tax revenues for things like roads.

Exactly, but the leftists will continue massive expansion of government until we are living in a totalitarian failed state.

The fact that they'll sit here and defend Obama's words proves it.

[MannyIsGod]

That particular strawman is particularly popular today.

[mavs>spurs]

Dude. You're a fucking moron.

sup scott metzger

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly, but the leftists will continue massive expansion of government until we are living in a totalitarian failed state.

The fact that they'll sit here and defend Obama's words proves it.So, you're still working on those examples from 1984, right?

lol everything

[mavs>spurs]

So, you're still working on those examples from 1984, right?

lol everything

what's 1984? there is no 1984.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The socialist author wanted to paint how bad he thought a "liberal utopia" would be!

[ChumpDumper]

what's 1984? there is no 1984.Certainly not the one you claim to have read and want to force everyone to read via government mandate.

[mavs>spurs]

Certainly not the one you claim to have read and want to force everyone to read via government mandate.

I never claimed anything. Now you'd better stop, or the 1984 government is going to come whisk you away in the middle of the night never to be seen from again. Do what the state tells you.

Repeat after me: "Even though Obama's quote was bad and unamerican, capitalism is actually bad and big government is good"

doublespeak 101

[DarrinS]

Did he build this?

06QqipaAvGY

[ChumpDumper]

I never claimed anything.
I bet you've never even read 1984.
Of course I have, it was mandatory reading at my high school and it should be national policy.Doublespeak, indeed.

[mavs>spurs]

^you didn't write that, someone else did

[ChumpDumper]

^you didn't write that, someone else didYou should try to claim someone else wrote your posts tbh.

[ElNono]

He heard Alex Jones' interpretation of 1984, which is basically the same thing :lmao

:lol

[ElNono]

Did he build this?

Apple certainly has a thriving manufacturing business...


... in China

[mavs>spurs]

You should try to claim someone else wrote your posts tbh.

Obama says so.

Haha, got you there!

[ChumpDumper]

Obama says so.

Haha, got you there!Alex Jones says so.

[scott]

sup scott metzger

Is you knowing who I am (which a lot of people here do) supposed to mean something?

[mavs>spurs]

Is it?

[ChumpDumper]

Is you knowing who I am (which a lot of people here do) supposed to mean something?Veiled e-threat tbh.

[DMC]

You guys do realize you have like 5 months to live, right? 2012, remember?

[mavs>spurs]

Then we'd better "not build" a time machine to go backwards a lot quicker tbh.

[Jacob1983]

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good and that could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.

[boutons_deux]

Romney To Olympians: ‘You Didn’t Get Here Solely On Your Own’

ROMNEY: You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/23/565491/romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own/

:lol

Could his subtext be: "And you all depend on wonderful guys like me, Gecko, to organize the Games"

[DarrinS]

Romney To Olympians: ‘You Didn’t Get Here Solely On Your Own’

ROMNEY: You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/23/565491/romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own/

:lol

Could his subtext be: "And you all depend on wonderful guys like me, Gecko, to organize the Games"


In the sense that our benevolent government and its civil servants are like loving parents, sisters, and brothers, this is a great comparison. :lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

In the sense that our benevolent government and its civil servants are like loving parents, sisters, and brothers, this is a great comparison. :lmao

so now you're against taking things out of context.. 5 minutes ago you were for it.

[fraga]

S8Yp9SVSWJU

[boutons_deux]

In the sense that our benevolent government and its civil servants are like loving parents, sisters, and brothers, this is a great comparison. :lmao

In that sense, you're nonsense

[vy65]

If the point is that business (whether big or small) is in a symbiotic relationship with government (local, state and federal) such that each needs and reinforces the other -- what's the big fucking deal? Saying "you didn't build that" is probably a misstep and the message could definitely have been stated in a clearer, more succinct way, but who fucking cares? Is it that hard to grasp an obvious concept?

lol MS
lol 1984

[boutons_deux]

"what's the big fucking deal"

The deal is that the Repugs swear, vow "Govt Is The Problem", govt can never be a force for good, cannot create jobs, cannot provide economic stimulus/counter-cyclical sending, so Repugs swear that ONLY 100% unregulated private sector, free market IS THE SOLUTION.

[Yonivore]

If the point is that business (whether big or small) is in a symbiotic relationship with government (local, state and federal) such that each needs and reinforces the other -- what's the big fucking deal? Saying "you didn't build that" is probably a misstep and the message could definitely have been stated in a clearer, more succinct way, but who fucking cares? Is it that hard to grasp an obvious concept?

lol MS
lol 1984
As Mitt Romney is now pointing out (in response to the cry, "You did not build that," was taken out of context) the context is worse than the quote.


SNZx3R0P2Kc

Obama's Virginia speech derives from a collectivist, socialist mentality that pervades the ranks of his surrogates and proxies.


GKfnLOZ9Fcg


Originality is not necessarily a virtue in politics. The problem is not the derivative nature of Obama’s rhetoric. The problem is the old-fashioned tyranny (“king-craft,” as Lincoln called it) and stale socialist claptrap that both Obama and Warren promote as the ultimate in sophistication.

[George Gervin's Afro]

As Mitt Romney is now pointing out (in response to the cry, "You did not build that," was taken out of context) the context is worse than the quote.


SNZx3R0P2Kc

Obama's Virginia speech derives from a collectivist, socialist mentality that pervades the ranks of his surrogates and proxies.


GKfnLOZ9Fcg

what part of the quote yoni?

[vy65]

lol context

do you think that is a correct summary of what Obama said?

[Bill_Brasky]

:lmao yonivore is the biggest fuckin partisan POS on this forum.

[George Gervin's Afro]

:lmao yonivore is the biggest fuckin partisan POS on this forum.

you have no idea....


he's still waiting for all of the Iraqi documents to be translated to find the wmds

he also wants bush jr on mt rushmore..

[boutons_deux]

Syria has the Iraqi WMD (says Yoni) and Syria threatens to use them on non-Syrian opposition.

[Yonivore]

what part of the quote yoni?
Which quote George?

Let's parse his speech.


"We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …
Why doesn't the President demonstrate a willingness to cut spending by doing it instead of just talking about it? How does our debt go up by over $5 Trillion and our deficit by over a trillion, each year of his presidency when he claims to have already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts?


There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
Sounds like a derogatory slam on intelligent and hard-working entrepreneurs that managed to parlay their hard work and intelligence into a successful business. Hmmm...must be something other than just intelligence and hard work at work there. It's not government and it's not the rest of society because, if it were, everyone with an idea that is intelligent and willing to work hard would be successful; government and the rest of us would make sure of it.


If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
Everyone who indirectly contributes to the success of a business does so with selfish motive. No one (aside from possibly close friends and family) works for your success without the promise of a return on that investment; Investors want dividends, employees want a fair wage and benefits, and customers want a value for their dollar. If your business doesn't meet their expectations, they go elsewhere and you fail. And, as for government's role? The government infrastructure and services are just as available to failed businesses as they are to successful ones so, that's a wash.

If anything, government and the regulatory climate it fosters are impediments to business success.


The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
Actually, it's funny he led with the internet...Al Gore might have something to say about that! Just kidding.

But, seriously.

Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444464304577539063008406518.html)


Contrary to legend [and President Obama], it wasn't the federal government, and the Internet had nothing to do with maintaining communications during a war.


The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
With people we are compensating for helping with that success.


There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
Actually, some large companies do have their own fire service because the entrepreneur that started it doesn't trust government to protect his investment.

And, government is pretty fickle with fire protection. Many communities are required to form volunteer organizations to fight fires while others charge a fee and, if unpaid, ignore your engulfed home while keeping your neighbors homes from getting involved.


So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill.


That’s how we created the middle class.
I don't even understand his reference here...


That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge
The Golden Gate Bridge construction project was carried out by the McClintic-Marshall Construction Co., a subsidiary of Bethlehem Steel Corporation founded by Howard H. McClintic and Charles D. Marshall.


or the Hoover Dam.
Six Companies, Inc. was a joint venture of construction companies that was formed to build the Hoover Dam across the Colorado River in Nevada and Arizona.


That’s how we invented the Internet.
See above.


That’s how we sent a man to the moon.
How many individual businesses are involved in making the space program even possible.

We went to the Moon because private businesses were paid handsomely to make it happen. Private businesses all started by an intelligent and hard-working entrepreneur.


We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”
Without successful entrepreneurs building, selling, and servicing the things we all take for granted, none of the great accomplishments of government would have been possible.

So, did I get the context covered, George?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Which quote George?

Let's parse his speech.


Why doesn't the President demonstrate a willingness to cut spending by doing it instead of just talking about it? How does our debt go up by over $5 Trillion and our deficit by over a trillion, each year of his presidency when he claims to have already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts?


Sounds like a derogatory slam on intelligent and hard-working entrepreneurs that managed to parlay their hard work and intelligence into a successful business. Hmmm...must be something other than just intelligence and hard work at work there. It's not government and it's not the rest of society because, if it were, everyone with an idea that is intelligent and willing to work hard would be successful; government and the rest of us would make sure of it.


Everyone who indirectly contributes to the success of a business does so with selfish motive. No one (aside from possibly close friends and family) works for your success without the promise of a return on that investment; Investors want dividends, employees want a fair wage and benefits, and customers want a value for their dollar. If your business doesn't meet their expectations, they go elsewhere and you fail. And, as for government's role? The government infrastructure and services are just as available to failed businesses as they are to successful ones so, that's a wash.

If anything, government and the regulatory climate it fosters are impediments to business success.


Actually, it's funny he led with the internet...Al Gore might have something to say about that! Just kidding.

But, seriously.

Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444464304577539063008406518.html)




With people we are compensating for helping with that success.


Actually, some large companies do have their own fire service because the entrepreneur that started it doesn't trust government to protect his investment.

And, government is pretty fickle with fire protection. Many communities are required to form volunteer organizations to fight fires while others charge a fee and, if unpaid, ignore your engulfed home while keeping your neighbors homes from getting involved.




I don't even understand his reference here...


The Golden Gate Bridge construction project was carried out by the McClintic-Marshall Construction Co., a subsidiary of Bethlehem Steel Corporation founded by Howard H. McClintic and Charles D. Marshall.


Six Companies, Inc. was a joint venture of construction companies that was formed to build the Hoover Dam across the Colorado River in Nevada and Arizona.


See above.


How many individual businesses are involved in making the space program even possible.

We went to the Moon because private businesses were paid handsomely to make it happen. Private businesses all started by an intelligent and hard-working entrepreneur.


Without successful entrepreneurs building, selling, and servicing the things we all take for granted, none of the great accomplishments of government would have been possible.

So, did I get the context covered, George?

I stopped at parse...

[Yonivore]

I stopped at parse...
Okay.

[George Gervin's Afro]

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."


your side has taken that one sentence out of his speech and have run with it..either you are stupid or dishonest to make the charge that he was referring to building one's business..as opposed to roads and bridges..


have you built a road or a bridge? if your business relies on transporting goods, wouldn't you owe the govt a little credit for that?

[boutons_deux]

"Why doesn't the President demonstrate a willingness to cut spending by doing it instead of just talking about it? How does our debt go up by over $5 Trillion and our deficit by over a trillion, each year of his presidency when he claims to have already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts?"

What's your evidence of his non "willingess"?

Where's your evidence that US govt spending since Jan 2009 is above your adored dubya's spending, and put his 2 botched/bogus wars on the books along with decades of veteran care, for his 8 years?

Barry, as is govt at all levels, is faced with reduced tax revenues due to REPUG tax cutting and the Banksters Great Depression.

[Yonivore]

your side has taken that one sentence out of his speech and have run with it..either you are stupid or dishonest to make the charge that he was referring to building one's business..as opposed to roads and bridges..
Actually, the more egregious statement is where he discounts the intelligence and hard work of successful business people.


have you built a road or a bridge?
Well, there are private construction companies that take government contracts to provide that infrastructure but, no, I don't own such a business and I haven't ever built a road or bridge.


...if your business relies on transporting goods, wouldn't you owe the govt a little credit for that?
They call them taxes...and, it's not credit, they pretty much demand they be paid by many of us.

And, since you bring it up. When can we expect the non-business owning 51%, or so, of the population that doesn't pay any income taxes and, yet, still uses the roads and highways the rest of us pay for?

Why don't they pay and, more importantly, why haven't the government roads and bridges made them successful? Well, the smart and hard-working ones, anyway.

[jack sommerset]

I stopped at parse...

Of course you did. You like the "keep asking questions" part of your contribution to this forum, it's the listen to the answers you have a problem with. It's obvious to many you are completely disingenuous when you do ask anyone you disagree with a question. And for their reward, a silly childish answer follows to the person that takes their time to actually pay you any attention. I'm sure you will do the usual, throw up your guards and ignore the issue. I will continue to pray for you. God bless

[George Gervin's Afro]

Of course you did. You like the "keep asking questions" part of your contribution to this forum, it's the listen to the answers you have a problem with. It's obvious to many you are completely disingenuous when you do ask anyone you disagree with a question. And for their reward, a silly childish answer follows to the person that takes their time to actually pay you any attention. I'm sure you will do the usual, throw up your guards and ignore the issue. I will continue to pray for you. God bless

I have a problem wirth hypocrites and people who make stuff up out of thin air..

keep your fake prayers to yourself.

[Yonivore]

I have a problem wirth hypocrites and people who make stuff up out of thin air..

keep your fake prayers to yourself.
What'd I make up?

[boutons_deux]

Here's a Murdoch politicized, lying rag revising history to say govt "didn't build that" Internet

WSJ mangles history to argue government didn't launch the Internet

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/

[TeyshaBlue]

What'd I make up?

He's talking to jack.

[ElNono]

Yeah, that WSJ article was pretty bad, especially for anybody that was involved in the tech back in those days pre-internet...

Then again, it was an op-ed...

[TeyshaBlue]

Anybody that links thinkprogress has no room to criticize, tbh.

[ElNono]

Well, he linked arstechnica this time... (think) progress... :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

I love me some arstechnica.

[Yonivore]

Perhaps a little perspective.

34 glorious, American years (http://alarmingnews.com/2012/07/23/34-glorious-american-years/)


(Every year on July 20th, I celebrate the day my mother and I arrived in America. This year the shooting in Aurora, Colorado was so overwhelmingly on my mind that I found it hard to focus on anything else and write about my happy day until now. Please keep the victims in your thoughts.)

In 1977, the year I was born and the year my father, his mother, his aunt and many other Jews left the Soviet Union (my mother and I left in 1978), the Soviet propaganda machine began circulating a rumor. It went, roughly: life in America is so terrible that the old people eat cat food.

This was…perplexing.

People didn’t quite get it: they have food specifically made for cats in America? What a country!

A lot of things about America remained beyond their comprehension.

A week after my father arrived in New York, he and a friend were walking around Manhattan in pure wonder. They got to midtown and stood in front of Bloomingdale’s watching well-dressed people come in and out. They discussed it amongst themselves that they would obviously have to show evidence that they had money, or proof of income, or some other paperwork to get inside. Surely this store for the wealthy wouldn’t just let them in. They watched and watched but didn’t see people getting stopped. They walked slowly through the doors and found no one gave them a second look.

There’s a feeling in America today that there isn’t equality until any of us can walk into Bloomingdale’s and buy whatever we want. The two men standing there in 1977 weren’t thinking that it was unfair they couldn’t wear the same clothes as the beautiful people around them, they were just grateful for the opportunity to try. They had left a place where that opportunity simply didn’t exist. You were born poor and you would die poor–everyone would. You could gain influence in your life and that might get you small victories–instead of being assigned to practice your profession in Siberia you might get lucky and get sent to a capital city. Perhaps you, your wife, your child, your parents and other relatives could have your own apartment, one you wouldn’t have to share with another family. Those were your wins.

It’s hard for Americans, even the ones who see America’s greatness and love this country for it, to understand the lack of opportunity that my family left. As Communism retreats into the rear-view mirror of history it’s easy to gloss over the everyday ways that Communism is meant to crush the individual and make everyone equal–equally poor, equally scared, equally hopeless.

If you’ve always lived in a country where companies make food specifically for cats then you’ve known an abundance that my family couldn’t even begin to imagine while they waited to be free. They wanted to say and do whatever they wanted, to live freely, to be allowed to earn as much money as they could, to keep their family safe from murderous ideologies and monster rulers. They just wanted the chance. Success isn’t guaranteed to anyone, and they knew this, but only if you come from a land of opportunity do you ever imagine that it’s even possible.

This year marks 34 years that I’ve lived in America. Even in the toughest times, in its darkest days, the times where we all might feel pessimistic about our collective future, we’re all so blessed to be here. On each July 20th I remember exactly how blessed.
"...they have food specifically made for cats in America? What a country!"

What a country, indeed.

You know what occurs to me? In the former Soviet Union, all goods were moved to market on roads paid for by the government, too.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao yonivore is the biggest fuckin partisan POS on this forum.
Have you SEEN boutons_douche's posts? Yonivore looks like an unbiased, opinion-free centrist by comparison, tbh....

[coyotes_geek]

Have you SEEN boutons_douche's posts? Yonivore looks like an unbiased, opinion-free centrist by comparison, tbh....

Let's not go that far.

Yoni is at least willing to put up the fight to defend what he links whereas boutons will hit the GFY-eject button two posts into getting called on something.

[jack sommerset]

I have a problem wirth hypocrites and people who make stuff up out of thin air..

keep your fake prayers to yourself.

I pray for you and your family. You have a problem with you, brother. If you had a problem with hypocrites and folks who make stuff up, you would not be a supporter of any political party. You say what you said, say,in alot of instances to avoid the real problem. It's a defense mechanism to avoid the real issue, you. God bless

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Have you SEEN boutons_douche's posts? Yonivore looks like an unbiased, opinion-free centrist by comparison, tbh....

The main difference is that boutons puts 'Repugs' in his thread titles and Yoni doesn't put the subject in the title but rather a lame attempt at a teaser and then proceeds to rant like an AM radio personality.

And when the government get involved in the development of economies of scale --as they should-- private enterprises should not just be ceded control.

[ElNono]

Have you SEEN boutons_douche's posts? Yonivore looks like an unbiased, opinion-free centrist by comparison, tbh....

They're both ends of the spectrum, IMO... lots of noise and little substance.

[Spurminator]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-24-2012/back-in-black---campaign-fibs

[boutons_deux]

Perhaps a little perspective.

34 glorious, American years (http://alarmingnews.com/2012/07/23/34-glorious-american-years/)


"...they have food specifically made for cats in America? What a country!"

What a country, indeed.

You know what occurs to me? In the former Soviet Union, all goods were moved to market on roads paid for by the government, too.

Who paid for all those 1000s of USA farm-to-market, FM, roads?

[boutons_deux]

They're both ends of the spectrum, IMO... lots of noise and little substance.

You fuckers to read the RTFM

I'm not partisan, I'm ANTI-partisan, the recipients of my ANTI-attention is the Repugs/VRWC/UCA/conservatives/tea baggers/libertarians.

[coyotes_geek]

Actually you're ANTI-one-partisan, which pretty much makes you a partisan.

[boutons_deux]

the 1% aren't wealthy by their own efforts in insolation. Most inherited their wealth, while a lot a them outright stole it (financial fraud, theft), and of course many of them buy legislation and regulations BECAUSE THEY CAN.

5 Reasons the Super-Rich Need Government More Than the Rest of Us

Wealthy individuals and corporations want us to believe they've made it on their own, without the help of government or the American people. Billionaire financier Sanford Weill blustered, "We didn't rely on somebody else to build what we built." He was echoing the words of his famous predecessor, the formidable financier J. P. Morgan, who spouted, "I owe the public nothing."

That's the bull of Wall Street. There are at least five good reasons why the wealthiest Americans need government as much as the rest of us, and probably more.

1. Security

In his "People's History," Howard Zinn described colonial opposition to inequality in 1765: "A shoemaker named Ebenezer Macintosh led a mob in destroying the house of a rich Boston merchant named Andrew Oliver. Two weeks later, the crowd turned to the home of Thomas Hutchinson, symbol of the rich elite who ruled the colonies in the name of England. They smashed up his house with axes, drank the wine in his wine cellar, and looted the house of its furniture and other objects. A report by colony officials to England said that this was part of a larger scheme in which the houses of fifteen rich people were to be destroyed, as part of 'a war of plunder, of general levelling and taking away the distinction of rich and poor.'"

That doesn't happen much anymore. Of course, the super-rich aren't taking any chances, with panic shelters and James Bond cars and personal surveillance drones. But the U.S. government will be helping them by spending $55 billion on Homeland Security next year, in addition to $673 billion for the military. The police, emergency services, and National Guard are trained to focus on crimes against wealth.

In the cities, business interests keep the police focused on the homeless and unemployed. And on drug users. A "Broken Windows" mentality, which promotes quick fixes of minor damage to discourage large-scale destruction, is being applied to human beings. Wealthy Americans can rest better at night knowing that the police are "stopping and frisking" in the streets of the poor neighborhoods.

2. Laws and Deregulations

The wealthiest Americans are the main beneficiaries of tax laws, property rights, zoning rules, patent and copyright provisions, trade pacts, antitrust legislation, and contract regulations. Tax loopholes allow them to store over $1 trillion in assets overseas.

Their companies benefit, despite any publicly voiced objections to regulatory agencies, from SBA and SEC guidelines that generally favor business, and from FDA and USDA quality control measures that minimize consumer complaints and product recalls.

The growing numbers of financial industry executives have profited from 30 years of deregulation, most notably the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. Lobbying by the financial industry has prolonged the absurdity of a zero sales tax on financial transactions.

Big advantages accrue for multinational corporations from trade agreements like NAFTA, with international disputes resolved by the business-friendly World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and World Trade Organization. Federal judicial law protects our biggest companies from foreign infringement. The proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership would put governments around the world at the mercy of corporate decision-makers.

The euphemistically named JOBS Act further empowers business, exempting startups from regulatory accounting requirements.

There are even anti-antitrust measures, such as the licensing rules that allow the American Medical Association to restrict the number of doctors in the U.S., thereby keeping doctor salaries artificially high. Can't have a free market if it hurts business.

3. Research and Infrastructure

A publicly supported communications infrastructure allows the richest 10% of Americans to manipulate their 80% share of the stock market. CEOs rely on roads and seaports and airports to ship their products, the FAA and TSA and Coast Guard and Department of Transportation to safeguard them, a nationwide energy grid to power their factories, and communications towers and satellites to conduct online business. Private jets use 16 percent of air traffic control resources while paying only 3% of the bill.

Perhaps most important to business, even as it focuses on short-term profits, is the long-term basic research that is largely conducted with government money. Especially for the tech industry. Taxpayer-funded research at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (the Internet) and the National Science Foundation (the Digital Library Initiative) has laid a half-century foundation for technological product development. Well into the 1980s, as companies like Apple and Google and Microsoft and Oracle and Cisco profited from the fastest-growing product revolution in American history, the U.S. Government was still providing half the research funds. Even today 60% of university research is government-supported.

Public schools have helped to train the chemists, physicists, chip designers, programmers, engineers, production line workers, market analysts, and testers who create modern technological devices. They, in turn, can't succeed without public layers of medical support and security. All of them contribute to the final product.

As the super-rich ride in their military-designed armored cars to a financial center globally connected by public fiber optics networks to make a trade guided by publicly funded data mining and artificial intelligence software, they might stop and re-think the old Horatio Alger myth.

4. Subsidies

The traditional image of 'welfare' pales in comparison to corporate welfare and millionaire welfare. Whereas over 90% of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families goes to the elderly, the disabled, or working households, most of the annual $1.3 trillion in "tax expenditures" (tax subsidies from special deductions, exemptions, exclusions, credits, and loopholes) goes to the top quintile of taxpayers. One estimate is $250 billion a year just to the richest 1%.

Senator Tom Coburn's website reports that mortgage interest and rental expense deductions alone return almost $100 billion a year to millionaires.

The most profitable corporations get the biggest subsidies. The Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in financial assistance to financial institutions and corporations. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, 280 profitable Fortune 500 companies, which together paid only half of the maximum 35 percent corporate tax rate, received $223 billion in tax subsidies.

Even the conservative Cato Institute admitted that the U.S. federal government spent $92 billion on corporate welfare during fiscal year 2006. Recipients included Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, and General Electric.

In agriculture, most of the funding for commodity programs goes to large agribusiness corporations such as Archer Daniels Midland. For the oil industry, estimates of subsidy payments range from $10 to $50 billion per year.

5. Disaster Costs

Exxon spokesperson Ken Cohen once said: "Any claim we don't pay taxes is absurd...ExxonMobil is a leading U.S. taxpayer." Added Chevron CEO John Watson: "The oil and gas industry pays its fair share in taxes" But SEC documents show that Exxon paid 2% in U.S. federal taxes from 2008 to 2010, Chevron 4.8%.

As if to double up on the insult, the petroleum industry readily takes public money for oil spills. Cleanups cost much more than the fines imposed on the companies. Government costs can run into the billions, or even tens of billions, of dollars.

Another disaster-prone industry is finance, from which came the encouraging words of Goldman Sachs chairman Lloyd Blankfein: "Everybody should be, frankly, happy...the financial system led us into the crisis and it will lead us out."

Estimates for bailout funds from the Treasury and the Federal Reserve range between $3 trillion and $5 trillion. That's enough to pay off both the deficit and next year's entitlement costs. All because of the irresponsibility of the super-salaried CEOs of our most profitable corporations.

Common Sense

Patriotic Millionaires recently addressed the President and Congress: "Given the dire state of our economy, it is absurd that one-quarter of all millionaires pay a lower tax rate than millions of working, middle-class American families...Please do the right thing for our country. Raise our taxes."

It's good to know somebody gets it right. Taxes, for the most part, are not unfair. They represent payment for society's many benefits, which get bigger and better as people get richer.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/156413

Much of Gecko's wealth exists because of GOVT loopholes.

[ploto]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/didntbuildblocks.png-png

Actually, she didn't build that alone - unless she manufactures Legos herself.

[Yonivore]

YKjPI6no5ng

But, before President Obama said it...there was Fauxchahontas Elizabeth Warrent:


hOyDR2b71ag

And, before them both, was George Lakoff:


KzN3AZk6f-Q

Who is George Lackoff, you ask? He teaches Liberals how to make their collectivist bullshit more palatable to the masses. I'm sorry, he's a Professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics at UC Berkeley.

[scott]

And before them were every economist on the planet earth.

We get it, you're too stupid to understand nuance. The people shocked by this revaluation number in the high zeroes.

[DMX7]

Z6IEHv0bXzg

[scott]

And before that, Mitt Romney said it.

S8Yp9SVSWJU

[TeyshaBlue]

And before them were every economist on the planet earth.

We get it, you're too stupid to understand nuance. The people shocked by this revaluation number in the high zeroes.

:lol:lol

[Spurminator]

How ridiculous for Obama to claim we didn't build the infrastructure that we use to drive our businesses. Of course we built it... WE PAY TAXES!!

(Oh, by the way, we're tired of paying taxes.)

[Sense]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-25-2012/democalypse-2012---do-we-look-stupid--don-t-answer-that-edition---grammatical-gaffes

[Yonivore]

And before that, Mitt Romney said it.

S8Yp9SVSWJU
There's a difference between the Olympics and its athletes (some of whom, by the way, are completely self-made -- particularly the American athletes) and Businesses and their owners.

Say scott, will you send me a percentage of your profits since we all built your business together?

[scott]

There's a difference between the Olympics and its athletes (some of whom, by the way, are completely self-made -- particularly the American athletes) and Businesses and their owners.

What are the differences that are germaine to the point being made?

Even so, Romney has recently elaborated to essentially echo the points made by Obama. See the link Sense posted above.


Say scott, will you send me a percentage of your profits since we all built your business together?

I already do, but you've already proven too stupid to understand the very simple concept being expressed in this case.

[Winehole23]

Mitt Romney once seemed like a moderate technocrat. But, as the Republican Convention and the video leak of his comments about the “forty-seven per cent” of Americans who “believe that they are victims” made clear, Romney now seems to fancy himself a small-government zealot, who promises the end of the culture of entitlement. Yet even as he assails people on Medicaid and Social Security, and those who receive the earned-income tax credit, for being “dependent upon government,” Romney has had strikingly little to say about another prominent group that’s “dependent upon government”: the many American companies whose profits rely, in one form or another, on government assistance.


From the days of high tariffs and giant land grants to the railroads, business and government have always been tightly intertwined in this country. But, in recent decades, what you could call the corporate welfare state has become bigger. Energy companies lease almost forty million acres of onshore land in the U.S. and more than forty million offshore, and keep the lion’s share of the profits from the oil and natural gas that they pump out. In theory, this is O.K., because we get paid for the leases and we get royalties on what they sell, but in practice it often works differently. In 1996, for instance, the government temporarily lowered royalties on oil pumped in the Gulf of Mexico as a way of encouraging more drilling at a time of low oil prices. But this royalty relief wasn’t rescinded when oil prices started to rise, which gave the oil companies a windfall of billions of dollars. Something similar happened in the telecom industry in the late nineties, when the government, in order to encourage the transition to high-def TV, simply gave local broadcasters swathes of the digital spectrum worth tens of billions of dollars. In the mining industry, meanwhile, thanks to a law that was passed in 1872 and never rewritten, companies can lease federal land for a mere five dollars an acre, and then keep all the gold, silver, or uranium they find; we, the people, get no royalty payments at all. Metal prices have soared in the last decade, but the only beneficiaries have been the mine owners.


In other cases, the government offers direct subsidies, like those which have helped keep many renewable-energy projects afloat. Farmers, despite food prices at record highs, still get almost five billion dollars annually in direct payments, along with billions more in crop insurance and drought aid. U.S. sugar companies benefit from the sweetest boondoggle in business: an import quota keeps American sugar prices roughly twice as high as they otherwise would be, handing the industry guaranteed profits.
The tax code, too, is a useful tool for helping businesses. Domestic manufacturers collectively get a tax break of around twenty billion dollars a year. State and local governments give away seventy billion dollars annually in tax breaks and subsidies in order to lure (or keep) companies. The strategies make sense for local communities keen to generate new jobs, but, from a national perspective, since they usually just reward companies moving from one state to another, they’re simply giveaways.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2012/10/08/121008ta_talk_surowiecki#ixzz28R4Sxvxs

[Winehole23]

Perhaps the biggest boon that the government offers business is the benefit of copyright and patent protection. As the economist Dean Baker shows in his book “The End of Loser Liberalism,” patent protection is worth hundreds of billions of dollars a year to the drug industry alone. And while most of us would find it hard to imagine doing without copyrights and patents, that doesn’t justify the huge expansion of intellectual-property rights we’ve seen of late: the length of copyright has been expanded eleven times since 1962, and the range of things that can be patented has increased hugely, even in areas where, as Judge Richard Posner recently argued, there’s little or no economic benefit to society.


Corporate welfare isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Some of these giveaways arguably do a lot of good. But companies that benefit from these policies are just as dependent on the government as the guy who gets the earned-income tax credit. And, when Romney concentrates his fire on the latter rather than on the former, it makes you wonder if his problem isn’t with government assistance per se, but only with government assistance to poor and working people. Romney may say that he wants small government, but what he’s pushing for is a government that’s small when it comes to helping people and big when it comes to helping business.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2012/10/08/121008ta_talk_surowiecki#ixzz28R4kyHUu

[boutons_deux]

yep, the VRWC/1% hate govt when it helps the 99% (esp the poor, black, browns) but they hide the fact that the 1% loves the govt when it transfers wealth to the 1%, even when that means putting the 99% into debt.